NYC NOW - July 3, 2023: Evening Roundup

Episode Date: July 3, 2023

WNYC’s Michael Hill talks with Sophie Sandberg, founder of Catcalls of NYC, and Emily May, co-founder of Right to Be, about street harassment in New York City.

Good evening and welcome to NYC now. I'm Jene Pierre for WNYC. Many of us have seen it happen on New York City streets, and many more of us have experienced it personally on a daily basis. I'm talking about street harassment or catcalling. A study by L'Oreal Paris and one poll found that 46% of those who have experienced public harassment said they've gone through more of it in the past five years

than any other time in their lives. Sophie Sandberg is the founder of Cat Calls of NYC, a street art initiative that raises awareness about harassment in public spaces. Emily May is co-founder of Right to Be, an organization that helps people take action against harassment. The two spoke with WNYC's Michael Hill. That conversation after the break. Sophie, you founded Cat Calls of NYC, as we said, which solicit stories of harassment. Someone then writes the comment or experience in chalk, word for word, with the hashtag stop street harassment on the sidewalk right where the harassment happened.

You then post pictures of this on social media. What's the goal there? In public space, we really want to draw attention to, like you said, the word-for-word phrases of sexual harassment. A lot of people ignore harassment, say it's not a big deal, say cat calling is a compliment. So we really want to draw in passers by and make them see that these words are in no way. a compliment. They're extremely vulgar. They're extremely explicit, threatening. And then beyond that, when we post on social media, we want to educate people about the range of comments of sexual harassment,

of catcalling. And Sophie, what kind of reaction does that receive? In public space, the reactions are really varied. Sometimes people are angry, upset, shocked, you know, they'll splash it with water because they're just so upset and angry about the vulgarity of the words. And then, oftentimes people are really, really grateful to see stories of sexual harassment talked about and shared. What's the impact that this cat calling, this harassment? What impact does it have on them? The impact of street harassment is huge.

I mean, a lot of girls in particular, LGBTQ youth start facing it from a young age, like 11, 12, 13. And this impacts their whole experience of being out in public space. it impacts how they feel about themselves and their bodies, what clothing they wear. People will tell us that they throw out the shirt that they were wearing when they were first cat called or they'll cover up more because they're experiencing harassment or they'll never walk down the same street because they were so scared. What kind of support do they need? I think first and foremost, the support that people facing harassment need is to feel validated in their response because there's been so much of this. It's not a big deal. It's flirting. It's, you know, don't take it so seriously. when we're able to step in and say, of course you feel that way.

This is horrible. This is not okay. That provides a validation that is really missing oftentimes when it comes to street harassment. And then beyond that, people need to step in and say something. If they see it happening, people need to do something and take it seriously in public space so that folks facing harassment have support and don't feel so alone and isolated when it happens. Emily, the public can get bystander training through Right to Be, where they learn how to step. when they see someone getting harassed on the street.

Would you walk us through what that training looks like? So anybody can get trained for free at right to be.org. And a lot of what we train people on is how to intervene when they see harassment happening. So all that stuff, Sophie, was just talking about whether it be verbal slurs, touching, groping, stares. There's 5D as a bystander intervention that we teach at right to be. So the first one is distract, creating a distraction to de-escalate the situation. Maybe it's about starting a conversation with the person who experienced the harassment about something unrelated.

The second D is delegate. So this is about finding somebody else to help. Number three is document. We all have cell phone cameras, but the trick to this one is that we want you to take that documentation and give it back to the person who was harassed, giving them the power to decide what happens with their story next. The fourth one is delay, that simple check-in, are you okay? do you need anything? How can I support you? And the fifth is direct. This is the one that people

think about when they think about bystander intervention, but you don't have to swoop down in superhero spandex to intervene. You can very simply set that boundary. Hey, stop talking to her like that, or why don't you step away? What should the targets themselves do or not do? So when people experience harassment, there's a lot of ways that you can respond. But there's also some ways that maybe you should think about not responding. One of those is to escalate the situation. The most common way we see people escalating the situation is to get in a back and forth with the person doing the harassing or even becoming violent. At right to be, we always say you don't want to harass the harasser. You have to ultimately disrupt it. And we see a lot of young people

not being skilled in how to do this who are showing up and escalating it inadvertently. And Your goal as somebody being harassed in that moment or somebody intervening is the safety of yourself and the person who is being harassed. Emily, I'm curious, right to be does not want to see the behavior criminalized. Why is that? And which kind of behavior are we talking about? So talking about those verbal comments on the street, staring, leering, we don't want to see her an increase in criminalization. And here's why. The number one reason is because we are scared that an increase in criminalization will leave.

to a disproportionate attacks on communities of color and low-income communities. We believe that harassment is a cultural problem, and that it requires a cultural solution. And it's not anybody's culture, in particular. It's a culture of sexism. It's a culture of homophobia. It's a culture of racism. And it's on all of us to address and change that culture. And slapping a law on this is just not it.

What could city government? What could government in general do to better protect? people against this kind of street harassment we're talking about? So New York City government is doing some pretty cool stuff on street harassment. They're actually leading the way on this issue. Ever since 2010, they had the first ever hearing on street harassment in the city council in the world. And now they have put together a task force to address street harassment that I'm honored to be a part of to make recommendations to the mayor on how to show up on this issue. They also have a resolution put forward by Councilmember Hudson

that is looking at mandating bystander intervention and schools for all middle and high schoolers all across the city. And the intention here is that if we teach young people how to take care of each other, they're already intervening at sky high rate, but they're doing it in ways that aren't necessarily safe. That's Sophie Sandberg, founder of Cat Calls of NYC and Emily May, co-founder of Right to Be,

talking with WMYC's Michael Hill. Before we go, a quick holiday heads up. The 4th of July, Macy's fireworks spectacle in New York City is on track for Tuesday night, and organizers are promising to showcase some new advancements in the world of pyrotechnics. Viewers can expect a mile-wide display over the East River with a total of 60,000 shells fired. If you're looking for a prime spot to watch this year's display, your best bet may be a long First Avenue in Manhattan at 20th, 34th, and 42nd streets. Brooklyn's Transmiter Park and Gantry Plaza State Park in Queens also offer some great views.

The Macy's display is expected to start around 9.25 p.m. rain or shine. Thanks for listening to NYC now from WNYC. We hope you enjoy the holiday. Just a heads up. We won't be dropping the usual three episodes tomorrow, just one in the middle of the day. So give us a listen before you head to that barbecue. if it's not rained out.