Odd Lots - A Top Miami Broker on the Booming Market for Ultra-Luxury Homes

Episode Date: July 26, 2024

We've all seen headlines about the multi-million dollar properties being sold in Miami. Right now, there's a $135 million mansion in Coconut Grove listed on Zillow, and Citadel CEO Ken Griffin has been snapping up a string of expensive properties in the city, including a $100 million waterfront estate. So what's it like to actually deal in this market? And what are the ultra-rich looking for exactly? In this episode, we speak with Dina Goldentayer, the No. 1 individual real estate agent for broker Douglas Elliman. She's been active in the Miami area for almost two decades and has seen the market for ultra-luxury homes boom alongside her career. We talk about the difference between being a realtor who sells homes for $500,000 versus one that sells homes for $5 million, and whether billionaires are really buying houses after seeing them on TikTok.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots podcast. I'm Joe Wisenthall. And I'm Tracy Allaway. Tracy, do you remember our episode with Hittendem Tani about how there's this separate world of real estate for the ultra-rich in cities like Dubai and New York City and Los Angeles, Aspen, Miami? that's just totally disconnected from like normal real estate markets. Yes, I do.

It was an eye-opening episode, not least because of all the discussion of the branded apartment buildings and luxury condos and things. And I still, I'm not entirely sure I personally would want to live in a Mercedes-Benz apartment building or whatever, but it's definitely a thing that's been happening. You wouldn't want to live on the Porsche Tower in Sunny Isles or the Armani. Sorry, the Armani Casa Tower and Sunny Islands. I'm trying to keep an open mind, and I realize everyone has very different tastes, but I am not a fan of modernism, no matter how hard I try. I don't get the whole white rooms, glass boxes thing, which seems to be predominantly what the luxury market is, at least in certain cities. It is a lot of glass. All right.

So don't move to the Aston Martin. residencies in downtown Miami near Biscayne Bay. Yeah. I was this close to buying the $10 million apartment in Miami, but now that you've said that, I won't. No, you're absolutely right. There seems to be this entirely different luxury real estate market in the U.S., which is still going pretty strong, even in the environment of higher interest rates.

And you see these numbers that are thrown around. and it's so hard for me to conceptualize this, but I was looking up there was a $70 million mansion in Miami Beach that sold recently and then all these like $25 million mansions and even like $10 million condos. It's hard for me to wrap my mind around those numbers. I think I saw that Ken Griffin, the Citadel chief, this is a big story, is that Citadel has moved a bunch of its operations to Miami from Chicago. I think Ken Griffin is spending like a hundred million on like a dual mansion property or something like that. And then there are all these stories and Bloomberg reports on them a lot about these New York City finance people that are

moving to Miami and maybe spending 51% of the year there for various reasons. But I really want to get more color on. What's this like? Why are people wanting to buy into the Aston Martin building? What's going on in Miami? Where is all this money coming from besides Citadel? How long it can last? I just want to get a better feel for like what this market. We know that the market exists. And now I want to get a better feel for like what it actually looks like and like how it all works and how people find these places and all that. Yes. So there are two things that I'm really interested in.

So one is the momentum factor. And the idea that once you get money pouring into a specific place, it kind of can attract more money. So that's what we were talking about with Hiten and Sipani, this idea that rich people basically can. like force prices up even further by buying up all this property. They compete with each other. Yeah, and it becomes kind of like the self-fulfilling prophecy or self-reinforcing cycle, rather. And then the second thing I'm interested in is how much this market, if at all, differs

from the normal real estate market. Are there certain aspects of luxury real estate that operate differently to say, I don't know, like a $300,000 home being sold? in like the Midwest or wherever. Right. Like it doesn't seem like it's the same as just sort of like going on Zillow or something and like, you know, booking some local broker. Yeah.

Do millionaires like surf Zillow as much as I do and just fantasize about new houses? Is that how they find them? I don't know. I want to find that out too. Well, I'm really excited because today we really do have the perfect guest to bring us into the world of a high-end luxury Miami real estate. We are going to be speaking with Dina Golden Tayer. She's the number one agent at the major real estate brokerage, Douglas Elliman.

She's been operating out of the Miami market for 19 years, and she's involved in lots of these deals. So we're going to learn all about this. Dina, thank you so much for coming on, Ovalat. Thank you guys for having me. What an amazing intro. Oh, thank you very much. That's always the best way to start that you endorse the intro.

So let's just start. You know, I mentioned Citadel, and that's a big story. But where is the money coming from? When you talk to buyers, what are the source, the different types of buyers who are coming in and splashing millions or tens of millions of dollars on Miami real estate? They are a bit of a homogeneous group. They tend to be, you know, in the 40 to 50 age group. They tend to have children that are still in school.

and they tend to be from North America. How do they find you? This is something I always wonder. I kind of alluded to this earlier, but for me, when I'm fantasizing about buying property, I go on Zillow and I look at a bunch of different- Zillow porn, we call that. Yeah, exactly, and it's fun,

and I probably spend too much time doing it. But is it different if you're a multimillionaire or a billionaire? Are you finding real estate in a different way? I think they're probably still as obsessed with Zillow and online sites as you are, but they often have friends already in the marketplace who have bought here,

and they'll ask for a referral. And then if they go online and see, oh, this is the agent, my friend recommended, oh, she seems to have all the top listings. It's just a reaffirmation. You mentioned the sort of demographics, but what are the sources of money? So Citadel versus New York versus crypto,

like when it comes to like how these people made their money, what are the different categories you see? Definitely the technology sector and that oftentimes applies to buyers coming from the West Coast. Okay. And somehow it's all tied to the financial markets, right? Private equity firms, hedge funds, you know, I don't even ask people what they do because it always tends to be in that category or there'll be, I guess, let's call it a fourth category of someone who has sold their business for hundreds of millions of dollars. and are ready to redomisle in a sunnier happier place.

Sunny or happier place. Okay, talk to us more about that. If I have a lot of money because I just sold my business, what is the attraction of Florida? And I understand there's sun, there's beach. Maybe now you would even consider it like excellent summer weather. And I say that because we're recording on a day when I think New York is hotter and muggyer than it actually is in Miami right now. So by comparison, Miami looks great.

But what is attracting people to this specific place? It's definitely the same things that it has always been, just at a higher volume, right? It's always been, you know, tax advantages and the fact that Florida doesn't have a state income tax, that's nothing new. There's incredible homestead advantages, and the weather has always been good, right? We've always been a sunny place with beaches and nightlife. What's changed in Miami is because it has attracted a higher profile clientele that now the arts have come up. The restaurant scene has come up. There's a lot more activities for children.

Like, it's just become an all-around metropolitan center instead of a place to just come for a few days to party and then get, you know, the heck out of Dodge. Right. I think I've mentioned it on the podcast. My family and I, when I was a young kid, we would go every year to North Miami Beach, like the Collins Avenue. I think, oh no, we would go to Sunny Isles. It was fun, you know, as a kid, but it definitely, the area did not seem party the way that it does. Now, granted, I was up in Sunny Isles, it was probably a little bit more quiet, but that, you know, I know that strip has changed dramatically over the last 30 or 40 years. What do they want? Okay, let's say I sell my company,

I have $100 million. I want to have a place in Miami because it's fun and warm and all of what are like table stakes for what a developer needs to offer me in terms of design, in terms of amenities that they would need to offer for me to consider their building? So that's a really, you know, that's a very interesting proposition because the developers are constantly trying to outdo one another and their previous towers, right? So Miami already has the best high rises in the country. we by far have the most, you know, glass skyscrapers that are full of the best amenities. So it's really hard to win your business.

So the developers are constantly looking to elevate the interiors, choosing a Stark attack, offering new lifestyle amenities like paddle or pickle. That seems to be all the rage across the country. So you're seeing that pop up at several new developments across town. They have to keep raising their ceiling heights because people always prefer higher ceilings. It's really hard to outdo with. already been built because we have such incredible buildings already. So they have to come up with more creative ways to do so. What's the most impressive property that you've seen? You know, we talked about

your 19-year career at Douglas Ellman. I'm sure you've seen some amazing houses and apartments in that time. It's so hard because every year a new apartment or a new house is built that is just so much shinier and prettier that I've previously sold. So I think I've walked into the best and then 12 months later, it's just, you know, there's something so much better. But what does that look like? When you say that, okay, it's something is... Yeah, what's pretty in the luxury market. Tell us about what it looks like and what you see when you walk in that blows you away.

For me, it's about the finishes, right? So I just took a new listing in Bal Harbor Village. And when I walked in the house, obviously, you know, the owner built it to the nines, no budget. But I saw small details that I'd never seen before, like his electrical outlets, you know, where you plug in your kitchen appliances. they were completely seamless and built into the backslash of the kitchen, which I've never seen before. So something that small really caught my attention because it was something new and I haven't seen it in the marketplace.

Have you always been in luxury real estate? How did you actually start out? That is a good question. So I started out in luxury real estate, I would say about eight years ago. I did not always work the luxury marketplace. I started as a cocktail waitress in a nightclub called Mint in my Miami Beach. And the manager of that nightclub, he got his real estate license. And I wanted to buy a condo. So I was actually his first client. And at age 22, I bought that condo, saw what he did in representing me, saw how much he made. And I got my real estate license shortly after that. And I just hit the pavement. I did rentals. I did deals for two, 300,000. I had a steady climb up in my first 10 years of my career. And after that, I really started getting into the high.

higher price points. And what's the difference between selling something for 200,000 versus 20 million or something like that? Other than the commission, presumably, is there a difference in, like, the process or the experience as a realtor? Absolutely. I mean, I don't sell properties in the 200,000 price point anymore because my marketplace doesn't have them. You know, Miami has become a very pricey town, especially Miami Beach, which is what I focus on. But when I did have the dichotomy of working with buyers and lower price points, first-time buyers versus very wealthy buyers, those buying their fifth or sixth or seventh home, there's actually in a way less work because those first-time buyers need you to be everything for them, right? They need you to play their accountant and their

house manager and maybe their housekeeper. But when you start working at the upper echelon, those buyers have their own teams and you become a member of that team. And oftentimes I'm the captain of that team for the 30, 60, 90 days that were involved during a transaction. So in some ways that there's actually less elbow grease involved in the higher price point transactions. That sounds pretty nice to get much bigger commissions and not have to like, you know, because that person, they have an accountant and they probably have their own architect who can describe things. So that sounds pretty nice, less work for greater commissions. How did you make this switch? And actually, how do you get listings? So if I'm the Mercedes-Benz Tower or the

And I don't know if you've actually sold anything in those specific ones. But if I'm one of these big towers, how do I connect with you or how do you connect with them so that you're in the position to sell those units? So I focus on single family homes, waterfront homes, the top condos in each building. And the developers, they're chasing me to bring buyers. And I'm like, okay, I'll think about it because there are so many towers, right? So it's not like there's one waterfront home on a specific street with a certain view that someone wants that really is, you know, the golden egg, right? Condos, there's no shortage of. So the developers have to offer very high commissions, you know, expensive expense accounts to really woo buyers and brokers. So I'm definitely not calling them. They're calling me. But as far as the other side of the coin, a very special home on a specific street, I'm chasing them. I'm knocking on their door.

you know, I'm wooing them. So it's just like a supply and demand dynamic. Wait, can you talk a little bit more about that? So how do you decide what properties to take on? What is most interesting to you as a realtor? So I've entered the phase of my career where I actually say no to a lot of business. And it's an incredible place to be because if I'm not passionate about your home, I'm not going to list it. I don't need another listing. I don't need a listing that's not going to sell. I'm very picky about the properties I represent because I want to make sure that they sell. Otherwise, it's all in vain. A lot of my, you know, it's called them competitors, they'll take anything. And that's just not my way of doing things. All right, but to Tracy's question,

okay, you have all these listings or sellers who want to get into your network because you have access to the buyers, and we'll talk about that. What are some of the criteria that you use to judge to say, you know what, this is the type of property that I'll take on enlist. It's kind of like a piece of art, right? You walk into a room or an art gallery or an exhibit and you feel something for that piece, right? You might not know anything about the art world, but there's a feeling. And that's how I feel about people's homes. They say, come over, give me an opinion of value.

And if I walk in and I get excited and I feel, wow, then I really want the business and I pursue it. I present my marketing presentation. Naturally, I talk about my stats, how much I've sold, what records I've broken. and I really fight for the business. And how do you go about setting a price? Because this is something that I feel, particularly in the luxury market, I see these numbers like $70 million for 428 South Hibiscus Drive.

And it seems very abstract. And also it always seems to be like a round number once you get to the luxury market. You know, it's always 70 million or 25 million or 10 million. It's never like 10 million and 500,000 and like $200,000. dollars. How do you arrive at those numbers? I just do the basic work. I check the comps. I see what's sold. I see what's available. If there's a lot of available product, I encourage my owners to price better than that available product so that you don't miss out in a season because there's only, as popular as our marketplace is, there's still, you know, a limited amount of people who can

afford homes for 20, 30 and 40 million. I share the data with my owners and I let them know, do you want to achieve a sale in the next 30 days or do you want to be on the market for 900? And if they start giving me the, oh, I'm not in a rock. I don't care if it sells, that's not the listing for me. I'm Francine Lacqua, an award-winning journalist. And I've got a new podcast, leaders with Francine Lacqua from Bloomberg Podcasts. I've interviewed everyone from heads of state to fashion icons about the news of the moment. But I've always been curious, who are these people as leaders? I don't think there's one right way to be a leader. Make decisions. A poor decision is always better than no decision.

Listen to new episodes every other Monday. Follow leaders with Francine Lacquois wherever you get your podcasts. What's the difference between, say, let's say some tech guy on the West Coast sells his company and suddenly he's a billionaire overnight. And then there's another person who's high up at Citadel and maybe they're not a billionaire,

but they make millions a year. Tell me about the difference in what the two of them are looking for. Let's start. What is the tech entrepreneur looking for? To generalize, the tech entrepreneur, sure, tends to be very into that white box architecture that you're not such a fan of because it has a lot of natural light, right? It has high ceilings. It has walls for their art collection or their NFTs. And they also tend to be very concerned about walkability. They really show their NFTs on the wall? I have definitely seen that. I've been falling out of favor a little bit.

but I certainly remember shopping with someone in that space, and he really needed a big wall to project his NFT collection. So it's a thing. They tend to also, you know, again, I'm generalizing, not be married with kids. So they want to make sure that they're in a location that's close to hotspots, like the cool coffee shop or the it gym. The Citadel person, for my experience in getting calls from Citadel employees,

they tend to be a different demographic in the sense that they're very concerned about. They're completely redomiciling their family. They often have more than one child. The schools are super important. And proximity to their new Brickle headquarters is as well. And so the Citadel effect is something that it sounds like you personally have either experienced or at the very least noticed. Absolutely. I mean, Ken Griffin is the best thing to happen to the Miami marketplace other than Governor Koma.

Say more about, Kim, as we know about Ken Griffin specifically. and he's spending crazy amount of money. But how much overall, when it looks like the sort of mass listings, do you just see that Citadel effect specifically? He's a little bit past that, right? Some of his big purchases happened 24 months ago, 36 months ago or before that. But what he's doing now is he's uplifting the community.

He's giving incredible amounts of donations to bring up Miami to be a world-class city. in comparison to cities traditionally at that scale, you know, like a London, like a New York. So one thing I was wondering, we've spoken on this podcast about the increasing cost of insurance, especially in places like California and Florida. Is that something that is even on the radar of luxury buyers? Or is it, I mean, insurance costs have to move in tandem with like the cost of the property. So I imagine they're spending a decent amount of money on something like this, but is it just not as much of a concern for them? You know, insurance is definitely on the top of everyone's tongue, but it is not stopping them from buying.

And these people are so wealthy. So if their insurance premium is $90,000 a year as opposed to $60,000 a year, they may gripe about it, but I have not seen a buyer not proceed with a transaction because of an insurance quote. You know, I've known some people not in the billionaire category who have moved to Miami, and I've heard this, that when it comes to schools, I've also heard that when it comes to, say, pediatricians and people with other needs, et cetera, that they still don't consider Miami to be on par with, say, New York City. Can you talk about, like, that development of, like, what you see as, like, the school and health care situation in Miami versus, say, what it was. I don't know, 10 years ago. I mean, I've never lived in a marketplace like New York to be able to compare pediatricians. I certainly feel that there are excellent, you know, there's health care providers in Miami and the surrounding marketplaces.

But New York is a city that's been on the map for hundreds of years. Miami's still a virtually new city, right? And you have all these, you know, haughty, rich people moving down and perhaps they expect like a certain level of concierge service. And Miami's still a little bit of a slower-paced culture. Naturally, we're very close to the Caribbean, and it's a lot of manana-maniana-maniana. So it just takes some time to getting used to. What about schools?

And you mentioned the key areas that people with school-age children want to go to. Talk to us about some of the different neighborhoods and stuff like that. Schools are a big deal, and we do have excellent private schools. There is certainly a long list to get into a few of them because of the amount of transplants that have moved to this marketplace, it'd be nice if there were more schools that were being open, and I see that as the next trend. I'm hearing billionaires buying up commercial buildings

to open schools that will hopefully open in the next few years. But the two neighborhoods that have the highest conglomeration of private schools are Coconut Grove and Coral Gables. And it's no coincidence that almost weekly you're reading a press piece about those two marketplaces. Most recently, Coral Gables was compared to as the next Beverly. Hills, which I don't think anyone would have thought to be a parallel 10 years ago. Wow.

Can you talk to us a little bit more about just the dynamics of the market that you've seen in, I guess, recent months? Is it still, it was going incredibly strong in the immediate aftermath of the pandemic. My understanding is like maybe it's softened ever so slightly in recent months. But by all accounts, it seems to be well insulated from a lot of the headwinds that would face other real estate markets. What have you seen? Well insulated is the perfect word to describe it. As a realtor in, you know, the Miami Palm Beach marketplace, I think we all have this panic when quote unquote high season ends, right? Like May's over. People are leaving town for Aspen or Europe or

the Hamptons and the realtors naturally get this slight feeling of like, uh-oh, it's over and we're never going to see it this good again. But this summer is proving to be incredibly active. It's being fueled a lot by the West Coast buyer. They're trying to secure something before the school year starts if, in fact, their kids did get into a school of their choice. So we're having a very active summer. A lot of the buyers from the winter who thought they were going to be so cute waiting on the sidelines for summer are going to have a hard pill to swallow because the homes

that they thought would linger through the summer season are all going under contract. Okay, so here's a hypothetical. But what would have to happen in order for the luxury market to take a real? real hit in Miami? Like, what would be the thing that would maybe interrupt the dynamic that we've seen in recent years? We would have to have a very bad hurricane season. Okay. How does your business work? You know, I know, I have some sense of how commissions work in a, in normal real estate markets. How does it work at this end? And are your buyers buying in cash or do they finance ever? Like, How does that, how do the, is it mostly all cash?

Talk to us about that. So the buyers that I work with, and let's call it in the ultra luxury space, are exclusively buying cash. If they are getting a mortgage, they tend to do it against their own portfolio with a private banking relationship and they do it outside of closing or post-closing. Very rarely do I have a closing that is waiting for a lender to fund. Okay, here's another question about being a realtor in the ultra luxury market. in Miami. But what's the big challenge right now? Because the way you describe it, it sounds great. You know,

you're earning big commissions on properties with big price tags, maybe for less work than you would have to put in for a house on a sort of smaller pricing scale. But what's the difficulty, if anything? Like, is there any particular, like, headache that you are facing at the moment or a specific challenge? Well, just to touch based on that, because I certainly wouldn't want to give the message that sell more expensive homes, do less make more. You know, this is a 20-year trajectory that got me here. And oftentimes what I tell my sellers to be, you know, the highly confident person that I am

is I've created this marketplace, right? I've sold these homes for your house to be worth so much. And that really puts things into perspective for them because if I continue to shatter records and uphold values when it's their turn to sell, they should keep that in mind. Does anyone want to pay 6% anymore? No. Do they want to pay 5% still for a little bit longer? But when this new legislation really starts to go into effect in the later part of the summer, we're going to see what sellers are willing to pay if they're not obligated to compensate the co-broker. Oh, this is the Sitzer-Bernett outcome, right? Is that what you're referring to?

I don't even know what they're calling it. I'm trying to not pay attention to the whole thing. So what is the current commission structure at this end? And as you perceive it, what would change in the market structure when it goes into effect? At the current state, the majority of my listings are at 5%, where I offer 2.5% to the co-broker. So if you bring me a buyer, my firm makes 2.5 and the buyer's agent's firm makes 2.5% as well. What it will be in the next 90 days, I have no idea. But it doesn't sound like you're very worried about it. I think the persons who are going to be affected by this legislation are going to be those who don't have many listings and specifically rely on paying their bills by working with buyers.

I think those agents are really shaking in their boots. And people like me who carry a strong amount of listings are not as concerned about it. And it's the buyer's agents that might be more anxious. because you have the high-end listings and the seller is going to pay you something for access to your Rolodex, so to speak. Well, for my ability to sell their property for the highest amount of money in the shortest amount of time. Right.

What is changing from my understanding because this has yet to go into effect is how do buyers, brokers know what they're going to make. You can get the news whenever you want it, Bloomberg News Now, I'm Amy Morris. And I'm Karen Moscow here to tell you about our new on-demand news report delivered right to your podcast feed. Bloomberg News Now is a short five-minute audio report on the day's top stories. Episodes are published throughout the day with the latest information and data to keep you informed. Yes, there are other products like this from a variety of news organizations, but they usually rerun their radio newscasts throughout the day. That's not what we do. We

create customized episodes that can only be heard on Bloomberg News Now. And we don't wait an hour to publish breaking news. When news breaks, we'll have an episode up in your podcast feed within minutes. So you're always getting the latest stories and developments. Get the reporting and the context from Bloomberg's 3,000 journalists and analysts. We're all over the world. Listen to the latest from Bloomberg News Now on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere you listen. When we talked about high-end real estate before on the podcast, one of the things that came up is the sort of importance of big events like Art Basel is a big event. And maybe even if you don't care about art, you know that a lot of rich people are going to be there and they're going to be in Miami. And I don't know, is there an F1 race in Miami?

I assume there is. Is there? Yes. And nay, Art Basel is the kickoff of the season. in the first week of December, and the Formula One race is kind of the tail end of the season in May. What happens at those events? Well, Art Basel, in my opinion, has gotten a bit saturated.

It's, you know, 20 years or so now in Miami. So for someone like me who's a local, it's still an exciting time of year because the amount of people and the quality of people that are coming down, but I'm able to now say, oh, it's not what it was five years ago, you know? Formula One, because it's a new event, is super exciting. The events, I would say, are even more high class than those for Art Basel.

And the caliber of buyer that's coming in during a traditional month that's already kind of over for the season has extended the Miami season by a good 30 days. But can you give us some more color? What happens at these events? I mean, it's obviously for F1, it's not just sitting in the stand watching fast cars, though I guess that might be. That's the worst part. Yeah, I imagine that's probably the most boring part. Talk to us about what's really happening when the ultra-wealthy come down to Miami for an F-1 event. So this past F-1, which was just about 60 days ago, there was a pop-up 10 from American Express and major food group. And the event is called Carbone Beach. So every major...

Oh, I remember that. Yeah, Carbone, right, with the rigatoni. Yeah. Carbone with the rigatoni. So they serve the spicy rigatone at like midnight. Every night there's a different musical act. You're looking around the room and there's Elon Musk and there's a bunch of basketball players and there's Jeff Bezos.

Oh, there's a bunch of sports illustrated models. It's just such a hot crowd. And the setup is cool, right? Because there's no other time of year that you can go to a pop-up event on the beach and mingle with billionaires while listening to fun music. I assume I would not be able to get into the midnight rigatoni serving at the Carbone Tent, sponsored by American Express. What does it take to get into that room?

You know, I don't think it's as hard as you might make it sound because everyone has to buy a table, right? So, for example, how was I invited, right? There was a table. There were 12 seats. Someone had two extra seats. They don't want to have an empty table. Boom, I got in the door. Okay, a buzz-related question here.

But one of the other things that seems to happen a lot with the ultra luxury end of the real estate market is you see a lot of videos on TikTok and other social. media platforms. And full disclosure, I was going through your Instagram and I was looking at a lot. Did they love it? Yeah. Well, it definitely made me feel like I'm poor. Yeah, pretty much. But like, why post videos on social media of these houses? Because I assume really, really wealthy people are not necessarily finding property through social media. But is it about creating that buzz or generating business? What's the value there? So that actually ties into an earlier question that maybe I didn't fully answer, but my Instagram is the most powerful tool for my business other than word of mouth referrals. You would be surprised to see how many people that you would think are not on social media are. And I can see them watching my stories to reaffirm that. So social media is just like it is for many businesses. It's an incredible tool. I've sold over 200 million in real estate that I can track from my Instagram. And soon we're going to be launching my TikTok account, which will be called Step

Inside with me, my nationally trademark segment, and I'll be linking my Golden Dina Instagram to my step inside of me on TikTok and just ticking over the world. I like the ambition. So on Instagram, do people like DM you after they see a video and they say, hey, I'm interested in this property. Can we arrange like a tour? Yes. Yes, they do that, which if you told me that five years, ago when I started getting really serious about putting time and money into digital content, I don't think I would have believed you. What happens at Art Basel? You mentioned, yeah, maybe it's a little old, but it's still huge.

And some of the Miami locals I know complain about the traffic. The traffic. Yeah, exactly. So you mentioned the carbon tent at American Express. What's the vibe with Art Basil? And what does a wealthy person actually do when they go down there? they're just feeling like a chicken with their head cut off because there's so many events they're on the hour it's impossible to make it to everything it just feel saturated so that's why i was saying that the formula one you know like every night there's one or two specific events that everyone wants to be at and it's clear like you're it if you're at one of those parties art basil you know the art is still amazing right but how many times you're going to go see the show you know so we met we brought this up at the beginning but this other element of one-upmanship. And maybe people want to buy a property in part because it's more

expensive and because it's more expensive than what the last guy paid and you can have some record or bragging rights or something like that. Do you see that playing out among buyers? Not so much about buyers because who wants to brag that they overpaid or that the last buyer paid 20 and now they're paying 40, but definitely amongst sellers. I have a slightly personal question, which is, you know, here in New York, there's been discussion about gentrification for as long as I can remember and the idea of people being priced out of a particular market. And in recent years, you've started to see those headlines in Miami as well, the idea that there's less affordable housing, people are having to move out of South Florida entirely. how do you feel about that aspect of the luxury market? Is that something that you think about it all? I think about it a little bit because I own rental properties and from that point of view as a landlord.

You know, I used to rent a condo for $2,300. Now I get $2,500 for it. I've had a long-term tenant in one of my properties that I could probably rent for $10,000 a month, but I keep it at $6,000 because he's a good tenant, right? So I think there's more to the story than just what the media portrays, especially in the town like South Beach. You know, South Beach is fueled by so much tenancy from people who work in the service industry. Yeah. Right. So there's still, in my opinion, there's still a good chunk of affordable housing. But when I think about my business, which is mostly 10 million and up, I'm proud of the fact that I'm raising values for homeowners in these communities who took a chance on certain neighborhoods when they,

just weren't on the map. You mentioned though the service workers and this comes up a lot in high-end areas, which is that if you're a restaurateur or if you're a school or if you're the fire department, etc., that your own employees have a really difficult time or even if you're like a golf club and your golf instructors, et cetera, that your own employees have a difficult time living in proximity to where they work. What are you seeing within intra-Miamy migration patterns? Like, where is the, you know, the bartender who works at some hot club in South Beach? Where are they living? Or how do businesses make sure that their employees have places to live? Well, if you're a bartender in a hot club, you're probably living in close proximity to your work and what we call the Art Deco District of

South Beach, where the apartments are small, they're five to 700 square feet. You could still rent something for $2,000 a month, though it might not have parking. And it never had parking. So that's nothing new. But when I think about other markets, like my family and I were just vacationing in Aspen. Yeah. And I was actually at the spa getting a massage and I was chatting with the masseuse. And she's telling me that she lives in Aspen town. And it sounded like the most incredible stroke of luck that she's able to live in Aspen as opposed to 30 minutes away. And I don't think Miami Beach is anywhere near that level. You know, when I think of prices in Mark, markets like Aspen, Miami Beach actually looks affordable.

What's the next big thing in luxury Miami real estate? What's on your radar? We're going to see sales for over 100 million become more and more common with not just one or two buyers as the only source for those properties. Typically, when there's been a very high price point sale, it has always been one of two buyers, right? The obvious names. Now, because the amount of wealth moving into this marketplace, I believe we're going to see more transactions like that. Because traditionally, those sales have always been in Manhattan or California. So Miami's going to join the ranks of 100 million plus sales on the rank. In the beginning, and I don't know if you've done any of these buildings, but in the beginning,

Tracy and I were talking about the rise of these branded condo buildings. Yes, I was chuckling. Yeah, the Bentley Tower or the Aston Martin Tower. First of all, have you sold any units from any of those buildings? No, that's not what I specialize in. I really sell when I do work in a condo building. It's boutique and it tends to be on the water. Do you have a sense for setting aside whether you sell them?

Do you have a sense for why this market exists, from the buyer perspective, what it is about those buildings that appeals to them? I believe those buildings are really driven by the international buyer. I'm hearing about the purchasers who bought an Austin Martin and who are buying in the Mercedes-Benz Tower. And it is shocking to me that this demographic exists because where I work, which is really more of the residential retail marketplace, we don't see those type of buyers. You just reminded me this is something that I meant to ask you. But who do you consider or what do you consider competition for luxury property in Miami? Is it that you're competing against, you know, potential listings in a place like Dubai or San Francisco?

Or is it that you're competing against other real estate brokers? Like who or what are you competing against in this space? Sure. I mean, there's a lot of competition in every department. But usually if I'm competing with another marketplace, it will be Palm Beach. Oftentimes you'll have a buyer say, we're deciding between Miami and Palm Beach. very rarely is between, you know, another country. And then as far as other brokers, naturally, you know, that is just such a part of the business.

You know, everybody wants the best listings. It's a very competitive space. When you mention international buyers, where do you see them coming from mostly? Well, in the towers that you mentioned, it's usually a Latin American buyer. But lately, I've been hearing about an Asian demographic, like the Japanese, that have entered the marketplace, which is really news. So you have a buyer and they're saying, I'm thinking about Miami versus Palm Beach.

What's your pitch for why Miami over Palm Beach? I say something like, well, if you want to have dinner at 5.30 every night, yeah, you should do Palm Beach. That's cutting. Yeah, that's a good one. Dina, thank you so much for coming on Adlaas. That was really fun.

Thank you for having me. You guys are incredible and I really appreciate this. Tracy, do you want to live in a... building that has pickleball and paddle right in there? I don't even know what to say. No, to be honest. Would you? Well, no, I'd want a tennis court, which I'm sure some of them have.

Since when have you gotten into tennis? We were talking about this other day. This seems very off-brand for you. Yeah, I used to play it like in middle school and a little bit in high school. And like, I don't know. It's a good sport. I feel like I need to play some sport. But anyway, that was a fun conversation to me.

I'm particularly interested in. in the midnight carbone rigatoni where you can see Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos and all those other types hang out. Carbone with the rigatoni should be a new Beyonce single. I think that'd be great. You know what? I had a massive realization while we were recording that episode because I was thinking about my perception of Miami. I haven't been there since, well, in like decades now. But my conception of the Miami property market is always the sort of single family home from Golden Girls. Oh, was that there? Well, and then I just realized when I was looking it up because I was trying to see what neighborhood it was in.

It actually was never in Miami. It was in Hollywood in Los Angeles. So there you go. There goes that. My, yeah, an accurate perception of Miami housing. Was blown up. Okay, here's another question. In your house in Connecticut, do you have a good wall for projection?

your NFTs. No, no. The answer to multiple parts of that question is no, Joe. So not only am I lacking in wall space, but I also have no NFTs to put on them. The other thing I will say about that conversation, and we talked about this a little bit with Hitton, but you really do get the sense that a billionaire with a vision or a plan can come into a market and, you're going to, and spark momentum in terms of property prices and then capitalize on that momentum, right? You come in, you buy a bunch of houses when, you know, they're not cheap, but they're cheaper than they are now. And then you invest in culture, maybe you invest in some social services, you create the buzz, you get other millionaires and billionaires coming into the market. And then prices go up and

then you get to monetize that, right? Totally. It really is fascinating. And there was a story recently about a group of like very rich people. And I think they were trying to convince Vanderbilt University to open up a camp. I think it was Vanderbilt. Oh yeah, yeah. Home Beach Elite are raising money to lower Vanderbilt to Florida was the title in Insurance Journal. No, actually, it's a Bloomberg story. But this basic idea that, you know, it's one thing for there to be hotspots and clubs and Miami has that. But if you really want to like attract families and, stuff like that. You need all these other amenities like schools and museums and all that stuff. And so you actually have to like crowd fund in a way like a big university campus because by and large,

these are the types of things that up until recently there just wasn't much of in the area. Yeah. And I do wonder, you know, often I think people talk about the labor shortage and it's actually a housing issue. Yeah. It's that people can't afford to live close to places where there are jobs. And I take Dina's point about Miami is nowhere near as bad as someplace like Aspen or maybe Jackson Hole, which both you and I have been there. We've experienced talking to, you know, servers and drivers that are working in Jackson Hole, but they live like an hour away because that's the only place they can afford and they have to do a drive that's kind of dangerous to get to their jobs every day. So I do wonder like when that dynamic becomes more problematic for a place like Miami. Yeah. No, you know, it's probably one of those things where there's still enough density and stuff away from the water that they're still probably, you know, it sounds like there's still some areas with normal size and maybe relatively normal price locations.

But it does seem like it's getting to be a worsening challenge. Yeah. Well, I think we should do more on this, though, because it is a fascinating aspect of the real estate market that seems. seems to be relatively new. Also, what was Tina saying the $100 million sales in Miami? Yeah, she expects them to keep going up. Yeah, which again, like, is a big difference to how the luxury market used to operate where those types of sales would be either in California or in New York. Like, those were the only places in the states at least where you would see that. It's interesting to see Miami potentially pick up that kind of business. Totally. All right. Well, shall we leave it

there? Let's leave it there. This has been another episode. of the All Thoughts podcast. I'm Tracy Allaway. You can follow me at Tracy Allaway. And I'm Jill Wisenthall. You can follow me at the stalwart. Follow Dina Golden Tayer on Instagram. She's at Golden Dina and you can look at all of those properties and maybe damn her and buy one yourself if you're so inclined or do what Tracy does or just look at properties and disgust at the types of places that she would never dream of living in. Follow our producers. Kerman Rodriguez at Kermann Armin. Dashel Bennett at Dashbot and Kell Brooks at Kell Brooks.

Thank you to our producer, Moses Andam. For more Oddlots content, go to Bloomberg.com slash oddlots, where we have transcripts, a blog, and a newsletter. And you can chat about all of these topics, including real estate in the Discord. Discord.org.g. slash oddlots. Okay. And if you enjoy Oddlots, if you like it when I am a complete snob about modern architecture,

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