Off Air... with Jane and Fi - 1940s jiggery-pokery from a public kiosk (with Samira Ahmed)

Episode Date: June 23, 2026

The heatwave has sent Times Towers temperatures plummeting, meaning a special garment has had to be deployed... Jane and Fi chat about automated bell ringers, travelling diarrhoea, a bounty of bath plugs, par-boiling sausages, and it's someone's special day... Plus, journalist Samira Ahmed discusses her new book 'A Hard Day's Night'. You can buy tickets for Fringe by the Sea: https://www.fringebythesea.com/off-air-with-jane-fi-and-special-guest-jan-ravens/ Our next book club pick will be a collection of short stories! 'Interpreter of Maladies' is by Jhumpa Lahiri.  You can check out our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@OffAirWithJaneAndFOur new playlist 'Coiled Spring' is up and running: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4tmoCpbp42ae7R1UY8ofzaOur most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome everybody. Cock-up's already been made today. I arrived at work to find not one but two Colin the Caterpillars spread about the desk. And I thought, oh, that's a belated one for Hannah's birthday, which is about 400 days ago. But in fact, it's Jane Garvey's birthday. And I really apologise, Jane. I just forgot. I did think of reminding you yesterday, and I thought, no, that's just...

No, but why didn't you? Well, if it was significant, like when my 70th... comes around. We're not still going to be working together when your 70th comes around. I expect you to host a firework display for me. We will not. I don't want you to still be working when you're 17. No. Well actually, in the heat of the central line this morning feet, I don't want to be working when I'm 70. Anyway, look, happy birthday. Well, thank you. And I'm really sorry. So I got out the emergency card. The card has been given. It was written in front of me. But then signed lovingly by the rest of the team. And it was saying things like, who is she?

It's got... Which one is that? A very deep and meaningful birthday message. Jane, happy birthday, don't go to France, you might not come back. Oh, God. I've checked the weather, and it's actually... The weather goddesses are on my side, because it is very, very hot. And look, it's not funny, is it?

No, it's not funny. It's awful for some people. But it does drop to a manageable 32 Celsius on the day I travel. Okay. So don't worry anybody. The problem that we're having now... at times towers is that some of us who get hot very quickly very much appreciate the air conditioning.

Yeah, but some people whose hormones are still relatively well balanced in their youth, like the Evelyn Zoresbury. She's too cold, so she joins us in the studio today with the emergency death jacket wrapped around her knees. Do you want to just explain a bit more? It is like a fridge in this studio. No, the jacket. So over my knees, I found,

a very smart M&S blazer that's still got the label attached that is to be used in the case of a royal death. So when one of our presenters needs to look very smart on air, we deploy this M&S blazer. Thankfully, I think this is its first outing laid across my knees. This is just, this is such, such good material. I think it's actually nylon. Oh, I do. The size of the jacket you've got is what? It's a size 14.

Okay. Is there a... There's some good padding in the shoulders, actually. So this is for the lady members of the team. Yes. Is there an equivalent for the gentleman on the team? Yes, I believe there's a very large, smart jacket as well. So what would happen if somebody died in Hugo's time?

Because he's quite a sveled man. He'd maybe have to deploy the ladies size 14. He might well have to... Because I'm deploying the lady's size 14. We have that many available. He's a sort of a little bit of a Burnham Norm core, dad core dresser, isn't he, Hugo? Looks rather good, but T-shirts.

Maybe he'd go T-Shart. He'd have a combo. He'd have a T-shirt and that blazing with that. I don't know whether that would be fitting. There must be emergency ties as well. Anyway. So this is wrapped around Eve's knees, and if you hear the sound of teeth chattering,

you'll realise it's actually a very, very cheap jacket. So it'll be a cheap royal death. Do you think that we will just incur some kind of minor royal illness by the fact you wrapped it round your legs. I do you feel like I'm tempting some faith. Yes, let's move on because this is, yes. That's not your attention to it. Yes, no, okay.

I mean, I'm looking at the very angry octopus on my birthday card and that also seems to be. Yeah, sorry, back to the birthday. Yes, quite, because I want to thank Minnie, who's, I must be Minnie in Penge, who sent me a card, a touchnote, a photo birthday card of the, I know I got myself to trouble and I said I'd never,

Hula hooped, and Minnie dug up this rather lovely image of me hula hooping in the foyer of Broadcasting House. We're still on the hunt as well for a shot of you watching football in a pub, something that you've claimed never to have done. And I think, and I'm just calling out all former employees at Five Live, because there is no, there's just no way that somebody didn't take a picture of you in a bar watching football on one of those World Cup Euro trips. It is possible.

But I do remember, I did see football in a bar in Greece, but I don't think that counts because it was abroad. No, it does count. Oh, all right. Damn. Okay, and Claire says, look at you, you're absolutely smashing it, another year older and still getting through the night

without getting up to pee. Best wishes from Claire. Thank you, Claire. Very sensitive card. And long may that continue. Of course, we were all working up last night by the storm, about 3.30 in the morning. Very noisy.

Didn't you have one? I didn't wake up. What? You didn't wake up. No, I didn't wake up at all. And when I went upstairs to have a wee... Surely the petting zoo was lively. Well, I think the petting zoo probably had a terrible night.

There was probably howling and whining and all sorts going on. But no, I didn't wake up at all. I was very tired last night. It'd been a very, very long day. It'd be a hectic day in the world of politics. It had it quite enjoyable, though. Yes, it was... I mean, we shouldn't say that really, because obviously we're not here to enjoy ourselves.

But... I mean, it was an incredibly sad... A bad day for Sekeir Stalmer and his family, but in bounces the King of the North, Andy Burnham. And boy, does he bounce? He does, doesn't he? He's a very, very, very bouncy ball. He is a bouncy ball of, I'm going to say,

a shining example of male confidence. Let's just be honest about it. We wish him well, because we wish everybody well. Let's just see what happens. Do you? No, but you've got to pretend. I'm trying to send positive stuff out today. You know, just...

Positive vibes. Positive vibes. On this anniversary of the arrival of JG. And the anniversary of Brexit. Yes, gosh. What a day. What a moving day, that is. What a moving day.

And this one comes in from Cheryl, who says, Jane, please don't travel by train in France this weekend. SNCF have asked vulnerable people not to travel. They're restricting speeds and cancelling trains because they're worried that the rails will warp. There will be disruptions and worse the air conditioning could break down. Please postpone your trip.

It is hot, hot, hot here. So we'd love. Well, I talked to the trip organiser only this morning and she's very confident everything will be all right because it is getting cooler in France. Honestly, I do think temperatures over 40 Celsius are... They're not funny. They're really different. No, they're not funny.

And you don't want to be the person who just thought that travel warning doesn't apply to me. To me? Yeah, it applies to all of us. I think if you're, I mean, I was, anyone who's in a caring role at the moment, whether it's a young baby or a toddler or the elderly, or if you're pregnant, God, this is grim. So we've just got to find a way of living with it, haven't we? But it is new to us.

And I did hear this morning that in 30 years' time, when if we're spared, we might still be here, we should think about this sort of thing happening pretty regularly and maybe even hotter, 45 Celsius, Sydney. England. I know. God. There was a report wasn't there on the news last night, which mapped out what 2056 would look like. And in London, it would be a pretty regular 45 degree heat in the summer. And I think the amount of instant property alerts that would have been set up for anywhere above Dundee last night by people also watching the news would have been stratospheric. Indeed, yes. Well, we did talk about it the other day, didn't we, the possibility of people heading north to avoid exactly what's happening now.

But I'm sure Nigel Farage will sort everything out when he comes to power. Should we move on? Yes. Would you like me to do the Minster Bells? Yes, please. This is Jane again in Beverley. Dear Jane and Fee, because Jane was thrilled to get a mention yesterday and just wanted to add that the Minster Bells ring in Beverly out on the hour all through the night. It just happened to be 5 o'clock when I decided to write to you.

So if you're having trouble sleeping, They remind you every half an hour and count down the hour, which can make your insomnia even more frustrating. They are lovely, but I do have to question the reason for ringing church bells through the night to tell one the time, when we all have our own time devices in the 21st century. I'm sure many other listeners living near iconic churches experience similar. I'm not complaining. It's been around far longer than we have. I am just curious to know if anybody else is woken by ancient bell towers, telling them the time at a time,

they really don't want to know. As I write, I'm also grazing on my fetter and olives with a chunk of mini tortilla. I think she got three for eight pounds. It does sound like. What a classy lady. Yeah, very, very classy. Wonderful.

And it's such a good question. Why would you carry on ringing the bell all the way through the night these days? Surely. I mean, is it to signal an invasion? But I haven't heard that Beverly's been invaded. I don't think it's been. I don't think it's that.

Is it automated and they haven't yet found how to stop? it? Oh no, don't be daft, it can't be that. Well, it's obviously automated because you're not telling me there's a bell ringer going down there isn't, but they must be able to stop it. I don't know. Remember when I went to the cinema and they couldn't get the film to work? Sometimes these things happen. No, I don't think that would be it. But I wonder whether there's some kind of ancient custom, you know, if the bells of Beverley stop, does it say somewhere an ancient law, L-O-R-E,

that's, you know, something terrible might happen. Like the Ravens leaving the Tariff London. Yes, Beverly might suddenly merge with Hull. Oh, I don't think it was on to do that. I know it's very close, but I don't think they want to merge. Anyway, give us your thoughts, because you will not be the only person who is slightly disturbed by clocks through the night. Yeah, it's a regular complaint of people who are new to country life, who move somewhere idyllic, sometimes right up against a church, and to their amazement, they're kept awake by church bells,

or they just hear them on a Sunday. and it can really irritate some people, do you think. And the mud and the cows get some people as well. Some people, they don't have. If you haven't got a church near your house, have you? No. Or try to sell it, remember. Oh, yes, no.

Yeah, a house, looking lovely. Looking lovely. Absolutely lovely to do. No, no sound of churches at all. No, it's very, it's, I mean, it's almost hard to imagine you're in London. I can imagine that would be the case. Absolutely. Yep.

It is filled with natural light. It's got low-level WC. It's flooded. With natural light, not water. No. No. Oh gosh, no, we've never had a flood. No.

It's one of the few things we haven't. Stop it. Right. Kat, I've been doing a bit of transatlantic travel for work recently, and I've developed a specific ritual. Arrive in anonymous American hotel. Check into room large enough to host a regional conference. Switch on TV.

Feel that peculiar loneliness that comes from being surrounded by things you recognise, but don't quite understand. I totally get that. I'm not really a regular visitor to hotels, but if you're in a business hotel of that nature on your own, it can feel properly discombobulating, can't it? Really eerie. I always rather like that feeling, if I'm honest, yeah. Yeah, I don't like it. Anyway, Kat puts on off air. Well, that's wonderful.

You've become my cure for homesickness. Nothing quite says home, like listening to a discussion about tube delays, bras and fox piss, while sitting in a hotel room wide awake at 4 o'clock in the morning with jet lag, Does anyone who listen to this podcast ever sleep? Or at least... No, we aren't just as sleep-aged. The reason I'm writing is your recent conversation about competence and imposter syndrome.

You were talking about those extraordinarily confident men who never seem to wonder whether they deserve their success. As a woman in tech, I remain fascinated by people who walk into meetings assuming they just belong there. I am trying to adopt the habit. I'm in my mid-30s. I work in a high-growth, high-pressure environment. after maternity leave, I became convinced

I was one calendar invite away from being exposed as an administrative error. Wow. Can you just read that sentence again because it is so beautifully put together? After maternity leave, I became convinced I was one calendar invite away from being exposed as an administrative error. Absolutely brilliant.

It's the start of a novel, isn't it? Yeah, it's just wonderful. Kat, you should do something with that. A couple of months ago, she says she took a course by Vanessa Cudderford, and it was a revelation. She's an ex-BBC presenter who now works on confidence, self-doubt, and helping specifically women stop mistaking anxiety for evidence. It helped me enormously, and I suspect there might be a few members of the hive who'd benefit too.

Thank you for keeping me company somewhere between the UK, the US, and Room 814 of a Marriott. Kat, lots of love to you, and good luck on your travels. And maybe we should get hold of Vanessa Cudderford, because I do. like that idea of anxiety being mistaken for evidence. I've never heard that before. And I think that's interesting. Well, I think the way that Kat puts a sentence together points to the fact that can career, a side hustle, something in writing, because it is just really, really beautifully done. You should get a substack and get it there. Yeah, very much so. And you could call it Room 814. Yes.

Over Marriott. Marriott's quite a nice hotel. Is it exclusively American? No, I think there are Marriots over here, aren't there? But it's definitely, there are definitely loads. I always think a Marriott is quite a classy business hotel experience. People might want to provide evidence of not so much, but I think it's... So, classy in a hotel, you get your own coffee machine. One of those, you know, espresso machine type things.

I think you would. In the room. I think, well, I think if you're on the business level, I think it's very complicated booking any kind of a big business hotel now. Because they've got so many clubs that you can join and special floors that you have access to. Yeah, I mean, it's a lot. It's just a lot.

Is there an executive breakfast? Oh, probably. And you've got a full on point system going down, you know, which really weirdly, if you go and buy 17 oranges and a well-known supermarket, you get a free room somewhere in an executive suite. It's all a bit over-linked for me.

I always struggle in any hotel with the shower. It's not always that obvious. No, it's not obvious at all. And the thing that I often struggle with is the bath plug. You know, sometimes, well, yes. So sometimes it'll be one that you twist or you have to pull up or sometimes you have to kind of slam it down before it comes up. And I have been known to just wrap a big towel around.

Well, plug it into this. And just have a bath that seeps away from me. Of course, you've never done that at home, have you? No, because my house boasts bath plugs. It does. And you won't be taking them with you? No, I won't. I'm going to leave those.

I'm going to take everything else. All the light bulbs. All the boilers. Yeah, a lot. All fixtures and fittings. Judith Wren says, I've just heard the Feeve conversation about getting a few sheep.

I'm from farming stock, but not closely connected now. However, I think you'll need passports for each sheep and there is a lot of red tape. Perhaps check with Baroness batters for the details. I'll tell you what, We should just get Minette batters on every week to just run some things past her. The good news is if you are bestowed at some point with the freedom of the city of London, you can drive the flock over London Bridge.

Hope that helps best wishes, Judith. I'm going to keep you posted. Well, this was Thursday. You talked about getting sheep. Yes, we did. It's not serious, is it? We were just discussing why we have landed. Do you not listen to the podcasts in your absence?

We gave you a shout-out. silenced for once we were talking about why we've landed on cats and dogs as our domesticated animals and why you can't have other animals and whether or not that's because there are bylaws and genuine legal issues or it's just choice

because actually sheep graze really well and you know you could keep them quite kind of contained and they're lovely. And obviously we know all about the alpacas. Yes. Go on. No.

Oh, it's in my turn. Okay. I thought you were perusing things. So many people have these wonderful trips, and there's a part of me that I don't feel I need to travel to exotic places because you lot are all doing it, and it's brilliant. Thank you for telling us about your travels.

CJ, and I like, do you like, what do you ever think of just using your initials? FG. Well, I think that we should, if we do want to go big on the socials and really embrace, you know, all of that stuff, then we do need to change our names because H has tiki-toki, for example. Done wonders. Absolutely huge.

Mr. Beast. I mean, you definitely can't be Jane and Fee, can you? So, do you want to be Miss Beast? Yeah, well, good. Little Miss Beast. Little Miss Beast. And I'll be FG. Tiki-Ticky. Well, actually, probably could.

CJ says, I want to thank you for coming to Peru with me and being such a comfort. I just walked the, now I hope I've got this right, the Salcun-Tay trek for six days to Machu Picchu. Is that right? Machu Picchu? For evil no, because you probably travelled there, haven't you, with your young person's head on, have you? I have not, but I do believe it's Machu Picchu. Thank you. And I was walking approximately five to six hours a day from lodge to lodge.

There were real challenges from the cold and altitude sickness. Oh dear, my husband had travel tummy And we had many bathrooms without opening windows Or extractor fans Well, let's all just have another thing about that Yes, all part of the experience Hope hubby's better Throughout my trip, you ladies were in my ear

A great comfort from the long flight to Peru To trying to sleep at night because of the high altitude Right, once again we put a call. Is anyone getting eight and a half Solid hours, Kip? Doesn't matter where in the world you are, Tell us about it. Yeah, without using us.

Without in any way using us. CJ, thank you. There we are. Look, they look great. They look like having a brilliant time, don't they? And I don't know. We don't have hubby's name, but he looks like he's recovered in the images,

doesn't he? Well, he does, but I, you know, quite often diarrhea, traveller's diarrhea, it doesn't really manifest itself in photographs, does it? When it does, you really are in trouble. So, I mean, who can tell?

I would have thought that there are millions and millions of photographs of people, you know, in front of the sights of the world who are actually clenching their sphincters while they smile. Actually, that's true, because it's coming in from Sally. Very much enjoys our program. And I think that dates you, Sally, because I still refer to it as a program sometime too. But Sally has been moved to send in an email by the discussion about creativity. cruisers, and this is the other side of travel chain. It's not something I will ever do because it's widely considered to be one of the most environmentally damaging holidays you can take. It is much

worse than either a land-based holiday or even a flight and resort one. Cruises are massively energy intensive and have a high carbon footprint. They produce huge amounts of ocean waste by discharging greywater, sewage and plastic, insensitive marine ecosystems. Even dropping anchor can damage reefs and coastal environments. The lady who raved about Batta cruises to the Arctic made me want to weep. At a time when the Arctic is warming four times faster than the global average and the Antarctic two or three times faster, the last thing these fragile ecosystems need is cruise ships.

And do you know what, I just put that in there because I don't want to be Dolly Downer on everybody's travel experiences. But when we talk about how hot it's got and how awful it is on the Jubilee line and how some people are going to start dying in this country, who shouldn't die just because we're ill-equipped to deal with climate change. Actually, we do have to factor all of these things into it. We can't keep compartmentalising our conscience, can we? No, we can't.

And all these people banging on about fossil fuels. I'm talking to you, you know, the farages of this world. I don't know what answer they have to this appalling, challenging, profoundly difficult weather. I mean, tell us why we're wrong to take climate change seriously. Yes. I mean, I just... And maybe tell us quite soon. Yeah, and tell us quite...

Yes, tell us quite soon what you're going to do about it all. Can I just put this one out because it made me laugh because actually I have done this, Judith. Judith is on holiday in very, very sunny roads hotter than London. My friend lives in Italy, message to say she's been catching up on the online death notices from our local paper. That's kind of. While you're on your holidays, Judith. I'm just sitting by the pool. Then you get notification from a friend who's looking at the death notice.

Well, yeah, okay. And observed that there was one for someone. we both worked with years ago, she does this so that there are fewer opportunities to put her foot in it when she visits her home patch. So having nothing better to do. Oh, well, that's sensible then, actually, isn't it? Yeah. I have a quick scound through. I noticed there was an announcement that my late mother's hairdresser had died, age 19, no drama. That then reminded me that my mother, who was quite a together, formal but loving person, had gone to this hairdresser for 30 years, but he was 10 miles away, so decided to change to one nearer,

and she wrote him a letter of resignation. We will never know if he was surprised or not. It still makes me laugh. This was the woman who could stop you in your tracks if needed. Has anybody else in the hive ever resigned from their coiffar establishment in ink on Basildon Bond? Cheers, Judith, not in the lakes at the moment. Well, Judith, what a wonderful mother you have. I think that is absolutely the right thing to do.

I think there's a real delicacy about that. Yes, I think so. I admire it hugely. And I have, not using Basil and Bond, but I have emailed a hairdresser who I could no longer attend on the basis that I had some terrible hairguards. Well, is that what you put in the email? No, I didn't.

I made up, because I've been going to her for quite long time. She's absolutely lovely, lovely woman, and she cut other people's hair brilliantly. You could see that as they were leaving the salon, but for some reason. I know, it's a, it's a, it's, some hairdress is a benefit of, but yeah, exactly. It just, it just didn't work. So I did email her to let her know that I wouldn't be attending again,

because I didn't want her to feel that I had just kind of, you know, strapped off somewhere. But I had. No, yeah, I mean, yes, it's, it's one of those things. Oh, dear. You both have me in fits of laughter discussing the farmer's carry, says Helen, I don't do high rocks. I never, I've never heard, I know, we keep, but I've been doing weight,

training for the last couple of years, including the farmers carry. This does not involve carrying mere batters or any of her agricultural colleagues, but it's a steady walk with a heavy weight held in each hand by your side. Apparently it's good for bone health, posture and core stability. My sister is always banging on to me about doing weight training, and I always say, yes, but I do Pilates, Jesus, well, what do you carry at Pilate? You know, that kind of sisterly conversation about who knows the most about a particular topic. Well, a bit like this podcast. You have a little bit like this podcast. But I haven't ever done weights.

Have you done weight training? I have done some weight training. And I really, really liked it. Yeah. I haven't stuck with it. I have got some little dumbbells at home. There's no way to talk of the children. And sometimes of a morning, I'll do a YouTube 20 minutes thing with them.

Should we at this point add the health and safety. Don't do it without it. supervision message or no you can i don't know because i don't know what i'm absolutely fine they're not very heavy i mean they're really not very heavy my my son laughs at them because they're so not heavy yeah okay yeah but i do i do like the feeling they're four kilograms yeah so that's what i do at belates i do the four kilogram thing when you're lying down okay so so that would be weights because it's resistance isn't it i suppose so yeah i don't really neil the instructor's never made it clear why i'm doing what i'm doing but um i think sometimes it's best not to know

I think sometimes it probably is. He's always got lots of gossip, which we combine with Pilates. That's good. I tell you what, on YouTube, so I do Caroline Gervyn, and I hope I've pronounced her name correctly. You do.

What do you mean you do? Well, I mean, there's just this enormous, enormous subset of YouTube activity on middle-aged women's upper arms, and, you know, you've got about 75 different people to choose from. Arms specialists. who you can join their workouts. And they're just so, they're so ripped, Jane.

It's extraordinary. But I like her because she's just got quite a nice kind of smile to the camera. So occasionally she'll make the same grimace that I'm making, at the same time I'm making it. She's on 10-K-G though. Is she 10? She is? God.

I think she's a tiny thing. Is she a big lass? No, she's tiny, but she's just extraordinarily mussely. God, well, if I have any anything doing, I might have to give her a call. I think you should. What does your sister do? I do. I love bringing Alison into the conversation. No, well, she just does weights. You see, she's a bit vague. When I do ask her exactly that question, she can't really give me the details. It's just a fact, isn't it, that when a sibling tells you that you need to do something, even when they're right, you get slightly, in fact, always when they are right, you're even angrier. If they tell you something and you think, well, actually, that's easier. But if they tell you something that's actually spot on, it's maddening. Is that just, is that just siblings? I don't know.

No, I don't think it is. Okay, maybe it's just when anybody tells you a difficult truth, you find it hard to tolerate, depending on your mood at the time. I think that also depends on the person. Who's doing with that. Yeah, but also there is a certain... I think there are two types of people in the world.

There's a type of person who wakes up in the morning and scans the world for evidence they're right about how they think. And there's a person who wakes up and scans the world worried about how much they've got wrong. And the person, the first person, is the person that you don't ever want to have too many conversations, making suggestions, because it will simply bounce off. A lot of them go into politics. I'm still thinking about that line that anxiety isn't evidence.

It's really, that's very clever. It's very stuck with me. Because we need to, we need to just embrace that. Could I also just say on future guest bookings, because it would be great to get the guest who was suggested there, we will get somebody on to talk about menopausal driving. but the doctor who was recommended by many people, he was too busy. He couldn't fit us into his rearview mirror. So he just overtook him passed on.

Well, he's probably even now having a full English as a red hen. Good luck to him. Cheryl says, it's a shame we couldn't get him. Cheryl says, long time listener, but first time emailer. Compelled by your talk of wanting to be an old-style telephonist. I thought you might be interested in this. I had a much-loved Gran who lived to be 99. On a Friday night in summer, I would take her up to Plymouth Ho for fish and chips or an ice cream, or sometimes both.

We'd watch the world go by, and she would occasionally exclaim, Behold a sight when she was particularly taken, for some reason, by the going-out attire of a younger person passing by. Invariably, she'd reminisce, and that would include talking about her time, working as a telephone operator post-war. I encourage her to write down her thoughts for posterity, as I really did think her numerous nieces and nephews would really like them. Well, during lockdown, she did exactly this and would read them to us during a weekly Zoom call. My uncle typed them up and made them into a small book,

which she proudly distributed to friends and family the Christmas before she died. I think that's lovely, Cheryl. Thank you for telling us about that and telling us too about your much-beloved gran. Should we just have an excerpt from some of that telephony experience? Yes, please. and can you put on your very, very best listen with Mother Voice? Right, bear with. At one time, I was a general post office, GPO, telephonist at Devonport,

at the time of switchboards, plugs and cords. When taking calls, we had to stay on the line to make sure the connection was okay, then leave the line. Each day, there was a call from the public telephone kiosk at Devonport Market. During those calls, we never left the line. instead whoever took the call signalled to the others and we all listened in this was very bad and we would have been sacked instantly if we'd been caught the calls were made by ollie a married man to milly and oh boy were those calls spicy wow you see that whole business of what is it called sexting phone sex not new but the idea that you would you would you would do it.

Can I just say for you? The idea that you would do it from a public kiosk knowing that that might very well. Be somebody listening in, well, maybe that was part of the free song. Well, oh, maybe it was. Maybe it was. But I mean, what's happened to Olly? A married man.

And where is Millie now? Probably long gone. But their jiggery-pokery lives on, thanks to the wonders of a 21st century podcast. Cheryl, thank you so much. for that. That really was probably why people went into that line of work, although clearly they were risking instant dismissal. But I mean, who could, honestly, who could resist listening into occasional bits of audio smot? Final one from me. This one comes in from Marianne. By the way,

how are you doing, Eve? Warm enough? You warmed up, dear? The laughs have warmed me up. What a lovely thing to say. slightly insincerely delivered but nevertheless I tell you what I'm obviously not looking forward to the passing of a member of the royal family at all but inevitably that will happen at some point

and for some of them we'll have more grief than others I can't wait to see who gets to put the jacket on and how that actually looks well don't get too excited because it could be you would you like to

no I don't think I think that they'd announce something between two and four. I think they always... We're off the hook, do you? Yeah, I think they wait till the next day. So it features first on the Today program. Do you want to wear the special blazer? No, not really, and I would now feel incredibly uncomfortable trying it on.

I mean, just imagine if one of us tried it on. And then tomorrow we hear that a member of the Lord family has passed away. It'd be terrible. That is, it is inviting bad luck the next time you both do a visualised episode. You could just start it. We could, couldn't we? Not your attention to it. One of us could just be wearing the jacket.

That's a very good idea. Well, if only we had the budget for the spooky music, but we haven't, so that's the end of that. Back with Marianne, who's been catching up on the pod this week, so I'm going back in time a little in reference to weather app fails. At the last bank holiday weekend, we travelled to the Hague in the Netherlands. Did you go there on your entrailing? No, do you know, we did.

Yes. I did go to the Hague, yes. This is the seminal rail trip. combined wonderful travel to Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam and Den Haag as I believe the Dutch corner. Literally. We went to the low countries in Paris.

So all four of you had briefcases? You marched in. We're here to see your bureaucracy. I think I'm trying to remember. I think there were eight or nine of us on that trip. Weather really? Okay. Further details upon request.

Okay. Anyway, Marianne is travelling to the hate. We're back with you. We'll get to the end of this if it kills me, Marya. It's actually the second paragraph that I wanted to air. For a family get-together as my brother and family live there, also in attendance of various other members of the extended family and their friends, most travelling from other countries.

Many of us had consulted weather apps before packing our bags and were expecting good weather. But two, who live in different Norwegian cities, essentially packed for winter. The Norwegian weather app had found the Hague in South Africa. Oh, dear. Who knew? shopping expeditions with their teenage daughters were needed. For a more recent episode, parboiling sausages. Now this was new to me.

I didn't know such a thing. Neither did I. How have we got so far in our lives without knowing that this is a thing? And this isn't Frankfurter sausages. No, it's not. Parboiling sausages was standard in 1980s, New Zealand and not a secret. Wouldn't dream of putting on the bar. Why would it be a...

I mean, oh, I see you only put it on the barbecue after you'd barboiled them. Yes. For health and safety? Yes. Oh, now I get it. Yeah. I think this was on the episode that Jane couldn't be bothered to listen to Eve, wasn't it?

It was a very informative episode award winning. Wouldn't dream of putting them on the barbecue rule for fear of dire results amongst friends and family. I've passed this pearl on many times since arriving in the UK several decades ago. You get golden sausages rather than sticks of carbon while still being confident that they are cooked through. Well, how long is the parboil?

That's my question. Well, I don't know, but I am going to try this. I've just never boiled a sausage because I've always thought that the sausage skin would explode. I would make that assumption. I once was put in charge of cooking a haggis for a Scot who was leaving my place of work. And I don't know why, but I did it in the afternoon when I had done a breakfast show. And I just forgot about it, went to sleep, and it exploded. And a load of haggis hit the ceiling.

And it was in one of those rented properties I lived in when I was in my 20s. Did you put it in a steamer? I know I just put it in a pan. Oh, and boiled it? They unboiled it. Okay. I didn't put a lid on or anything. It just shot the whole thing.

Didn't wake me up, though. It was a bit like you last night. I just carried on snoring. Yeah. What did you take to the party instead? Well, I scraped it off the ceiling and just... And repackaged it. Repackished it.

I mean, it's what she would have wanted. Okay. The Scots don't like anything wasted, do they? No, for a very good reason. Very good reason. Can we have a shout-out? A tidy pantry. Claire is, I do admire this.

She and her husband are trekking into London from Surrey to go to the summer exhibition. That would be the one at the Royal Academy. That's it. And then, by goodness me, she's not, she hasn't peaked because she's going to the Globe Theatre to see Mother Courage and her children. So Brecht in high heat at the Globe.

I do hope you won't have to stand. Yeah, of the globe you do stand, don't you? Oh, Claire. Bloody hell. So Claire says that they can't cancel without losing their money. But do you know what? I bet if you phoned, I think of enough people phoned the globe today and said, yeah, sure, you're sure the actors want to do that too?

Yeah. They might have a group think and decide to postpone it. That is a lot. I just think that kind of thirst for culture is to be commended. But maybe you could be thirsty on a bit. different day, yeah. And very, very quickly, as we are talking culture, Susan went to see Disclosure Day and agreed with me. It was dire, she said. A new director would never have got the money for that. It was like it was just a rework of ET,

the gaping holes in the storyline left us open-mouthed. How did Jane, that was one of the characters, suddenly get through to the group with that Salvation Gizmo at the end. No redeeming features whatsoever. However, she did enjoy, if you're looking for a film, the sheep detectives. Marvelous, give it a whirl, uncomplicated fun. And, Clodonia, who is in Sydney in Australia, says that when she was growing up in Malta, every film would have an intermission. Now, we did have them in this country, didn't we?

I was complaining that Disclosure Day was just far too long. She says we had about 15 to 20 minutes to go to the bathroom, grab some snacks, have a quick vibe check with the people we went to the cinema with, and then get back for the second half. Yeah, I don't know. They should bring them back. If they're going to have these long films,

bring back the intermission. Well, dancers with wolves did have an intermission, didn't it? Oh, I don't remember. Yep. When that came out and I can't remember how long it was

but everyone was kind of like oh my God you definitely need an intermission because it's whatever approaching three hours but as we constantly say it seems that most films these days

are heading towards three hours and it is too long for the normal bladder I think to cope. What's a salvation gizmo? Well no it was basically it was some sort of device whereby this character Jane

played by Bono's daughter Eve Hewson saved the day. I didn't get any of the... I didn't really get the gizmo business and there were far too many scenes with Colin Firth having things attached to his head.

Honestly, it was a bit of a miss. Yeah. But also weirdly moving, just... I don't know. Maybe... What can I say? It was the heat. I'm no Barry Norman.

But if you really want to my opinion, don't bother. Doong, do... He made pickles, didn't he? He made an absolute fortune out of them. Barry Norman? Yes! He did. He made pickles. He was so taken with Paul Newman's dressings, French dressings, mayonnaisees and other bottled condiments, that he used to be a pickle maker at home, an amateur pickle maker, and he turned it into a business. And he ended up making, he always used to say, more money out of his pickles than he had out of his film critiques.

A lovely, lovely guy. Yeah, did not know that. Was it cornishon? I think they were bigger than a cornishon. But I'd never want to offend the pickle community by getting their sizing wrong. Let's not. But this remains, I suspect, the only podcast

where a parboiling a sausage has been discussed today. Now, our guest this afternoon is Samira Ahmed, award-winning journalist and broadcaster, host of the arts program front row on Radio 4, also known for taking the BBC to an equal pay tribunal and winning. She's now written a book, A Hard Days Night, which looks at the 1964 Beatles film of the same name in quite exquisite detail. Samira, hello, good afternoon, how are you? I'm great. I feel like we're a fab three of Weird Sisters reunited. Oh, I guess. It's a gorgeous

thing to say. And in these temperatures, we're very grateful for anybody binging us up. So thank you very much, Samira. First of all, it's really interesting this, the book. It's a slim volume. It's one of the British Film Institute Film Classic series. Is that correct? Yeah, and can I just say, I know the original slim is because that's the format. It's 25,000 words. You could have written much more. I would and could have. And it's all thriller, no filler, just like the Beatles album.

Okay, excellent. Tell us, first of all, about your relationship with the Beatles, because I really got the impression from the book that yours was a deep love, shall we say. How did it start? It was a kind of nerdy love. I mean, my elder brother, who's five years older, taped all the Beatles films off TV when they were shown on BBC to at Christmas, 1979. And we had a great, beautiful Beatamax player, the best format. And I discovered the Beatles through watching those films back.

And the hard day's night was scheduled against the Queen's Speech on Christmas Day at 3 o'clock. It had become a bit of a Christmas picture, apparently. And, you know, it's interesting. Although I loved the music, it was watching them. And the way that they were as a gang interacting with people of different generations moving through that film. that one in help and to some extent yellow submarine and i used to watch those films at least one of them every couple of days i used to watch a hard day's night about once a week from the age of 11 for quite a long time is to come home from school put it on so someone said to me it's possible i

may have watched it more than most people on the planet i i'm beginning to think that might be right um so so there were only three beetles films is that is that right just a hard day's night no no no no no no just put me right go on okay so there's the two that they made richard lester a hard night and then they made the follow-up help a year later which is in colour and they had a contract to do three the third one ended up becoming yellow submarine the animated film but in between there was a documentary called the Beatles at Shea Stadium which is a kind of documentary concert film and there was of course let it be and then in between there was also a magical mystery tool which was the film they made themselves for television which which got an absolute

critical morning when it went out on Christmas Day yeah okay um I was surprised that a hard day's night the critics on the whole absolutely loved this film can you explain why yeah well i think for a start the Beatles had become such a phenomenon by the time this film came out in july 64 so they signed the contract in october 63 shortly before that famous um royal variety performance where john lennon talked about the people in the cheap seats clap your hands the rest of you rattle your jewelry no one had ever spoken about the royal family that way and that sense of them speaking despite anyone's class they spoke the same to everyone children loved the music But adults were fascinated by these people they saw on television and they did make a big impact on shows like

Morecambe and Wise or jukebox jury or thank your lucky star so the TV makes them and the film which was made really by an American firm called the United Artists because they wanted a load of record sales before this band disbanded they just assumed they'll be over soon so that was the reason to make the film and it was a bit of luck that they had great producer and a great director all Americans Richard Lester the director who'd worked with the goons new British comedy wanted to do something fresh and exciting, was excited by this band, went to see the way that they were with crowds and with performances. And he made it very influenced by the French New Valvaig, the sort of black and white new cinema that came out of Paris,

with young people, with surreal comedy, with a lightweight camera that you could film down the street. So it's basically an art house film made to be a cash-in, but it ends up being a much better film than it needs to be. And that's why the critics loved it because it was a great film. Yes, that was the many things in this book. I just didn't know that. I didn't appreciate that it was directed by somebody

who really knew what they were doing, and he did actually get fantastic reviews for it. Kate says, I'm exactly the same as Samira. I became a Beatle fan the same way, watching the films on telly at the Christmas of 1979. I recorded the musical my cassette player. I was 11, and I still love them now. And, of course, you shouldn't have done that, Kate, actually.

We will have to inform the BBC authorities that you recorded the music on your cassette player. Home taping is killing music, as you all know. Well, Samira has a hotline to the new director general, so I'm afraid we'll have to put your name forward. It's very interesting, too. I had a message here from Jerry, who said he was making a curry in Edinburgh, and he was stopped in his tracks,

because I mentioned some of the great British actors who starred in the film, including the man John Junkin. And Jerry said, wow, I mean, I think he went to school with my dad. I haven't heard that name in ages. Just tell us who else was in this film. So Norman Rossington, who played their sort of manager character, John Junkin, Victor Spinetti played the director. And of course, the director is a bit of a spoof of Richard Lester himself.

Victor Spenetti would also appear in a couple of their other films. And just brings that great intensity. And he was a great comedy performer. A lot of these actors were character comedy actors. The one who is the biggest name in it, in theory, is Wilfred Bramble, who plays Paul's Irish grandfather. And as you'll know in the book, there's a lot of, there's a lot of, Well, there's a lot of disputes in the fan world, should we say,

about what he really brings to the film. He does a big star at the time because of Steptoe son. But he plays this clean old man, which is obviously a play on his dirty old man character. And weirdly, he's the thing that has dated. There's the only element of the film that's dated because no one really knows who's, I mean, a lot of people don't know what Steptoe was.

They don't understand why he's in it. But he would have potentially brought in a big comedy audience who knew him from the biggest show on television. And then there were small people like Derek Nimmo, who was an alumnour, numbness of John's old school Quarry Bank school in Liverpool who plays his little cameo as a magician and there are people at Miss World from a couple of years ago Rosemary Franklin is one of the featured showgirls to finding out

some of these people who you might not recognize but they all will recognize about the time and that's what is key about the film is it's made in the moment and it's made so if you watch it in 1966 we'd have got all these references yeah but if you watch it now it's timeless and it's yet it's it's a moment of time captured Samira, is it a good film full stop or it's a good film because it's a Beatles film full stop? No, no, no, no. Excuse me, it is a BFI film classic and it would not have been accepted for publication if it were not a world's landmark of cinema. So, no, I was amazed this book hadn't been written before, someone hadn't already got this title because it holds up so well. And I've seen it a few times, there are screenings available if you, you know, there are people who release prints of it.

And it's been restored in 4K. We had a big screening at the BFI. I've done ones, which I'm continuing to do around the country, Newcastle, Belfast. I've got one coming up in Liverpool on October the 17th, if you want to come at the Yoko Ono-Lennon Auditorium. And it looks amazing on the big screen. It sparkles with light. The composition, it invents the pop video, the way that the music and the sound is edited so that the screaming fans gradually take over the concert.

You don't realize when you see it on the big screen just how good it is. Even on the small screen, it's good, but it's better in the cinema. Lots of interest from listeners in what you're saying, Samira. John says, he's in East Kilbride, by the way. I loved Wilford Bramble. He was a wonderful character actor. In that film A Hard Day's Night, he was nominated or it was nominated for two Academy Awards.

Is that correct? It was nominated for Best Screenplay for Alan Owen, who was Liverpooling of Welsh Heritage and well known as a sort of screenwriter for television in particular. And it had, ironically, a nomination for the score, not the Beatles songs, but the George Martin kind of slightly plinky, jazzy score version of some of the songs, which I think the Lenin McCartney,

well, he felt a bit grieved about, but anyway, didn't win either. Okay, John goes on to say, Time magazine included it in the top 100 best films of all time, and it's thought to be an inspiration for the monkeys' TV show in the States. Well, certainly that monkeys, that makes sense. That would seem to be the case, wouldn't it? Yeah, well, there's a whole thing in my book, I have a whole chapter on the legacy of the film,

and in terms of things like the monkeys, how that came to be, why it's inspired for this, but also other pop films, both at the time, and going into future decades. I mean, things like, some of those very dark pop films like, That'll Be the Day in Star Dust with David Essex, or even Slade in Flame. And I take it all the way forward to a film like Kneecap,

which I would argue is the best, I would argue it's the Irish grandchild of A Hard Day's Night. It's irreverent, it's shocking in its own way. Obviously, it's got a lot more nudity and drug-taking and sex than a hard day's night, which is strangely, it's focused on the comedy rather than the sexual energy of the Beatles. But it's got that sense of breaking,

the rules and being provocative. And don't forget, hearing the Beatles speak in their own voices at the time was pretty wild at a time when, you know, RP was dominated and the American producers thought they were going to have to dub the film and they fought back against it. Can you imagine the Beatles dubbed to talk like David Niven? Just appalling. Can we just talk about the title? It's one of those things, because I suppose I've known that phrase, a hard day's night, probably all my life. It's a great phrase. Where did it come from? So it's a Ringoism. Ringo came up with these amazing phrases, eight days a week, it's another one of his. However, he did not come up with it during the shoot. But during the

filming, there was a working title, Beatlemania to capture the sentence of the Beatles under siege, which they were. And that phrase was being bandied about, and they eventually settled on it. We know it didn't come up during the filming because John Lennon's book came out during filming, and it had that phrase in it. So we know the phrase comes from some time earlier. We don't know exactly what, but we know it's a Ringoism that they all live. loved and then the Beatles went away because they were told me where we need a title song to go with this title and John and Paul wrote it overnight called Walter Shenton to their dressing room the next morning at Triconham studios played it to him and what I love one of the details

that I found was that the lyrics were written on the back of a birthday card to Julian Julian's first birthday card which Mark Lewis and told me about it's in the British Library on loan where you can see it but what no one had really noticed was that on the picture on the card is a little boy on a steam train and there's something lovely about the fact that the film begins on a train Oh yes, well we've got a question about that for you. Charlie says I think the title track has the best opening chord of any song That that chord inspires the whole phenomenon of the band the birds Just the sound of any birds song comes from the twanginess of that guitar opening in my book. I can't remember I did try to look it up But you will have to buy my book, but I can tell you what the chord is because it was a new chord and I have because it's a technically an academic book although it's not written in an academic language at all

Every citation has been double and triple fact-checked and proofed. So it's got very, very good citation. Okay. Yeah. We trust you. I can tell you that, yeah, honestly. But it is a great chord. And I think it's important to emphasize that Richard Lester was very involved in thinking about how that film would work with the music and the editing by John Jimson, which is key to how those songs are interpreted as kind of pop video formats.

I love that John Jimpson had worked on Zulu and went on to edit Star Wars. Who knew? Does any current band even come close to your ears and your heart as the Beatles clearly have done? What's unique about the Beatles is that combination of musical talent and personal charisma. I would argue that Elvis is the only person I can think of who has that level of on-screen charisma. You happen to be a great musician. I know people dispute how great his films were, but he made some great ones like Kid Creole, I would argue. And otherwise no one has quite that.

combination. There are great bands music I love, but it's that ability, I mean, the four of them on screen, we'd go back to what the critics said, they all noticed they had distinctive personalities, the way that they could sort of ad-lib with each other. That's, although it's only semi-improvised, the film really captures the sense of them as real people. And I can't think of anyone else who does that. And also it's been pointed out, you know, in the film, you know, they don't make a big deal about being cool. I mean, they're larking around. And when Rinker goes off on his own and puts a hat and a coat, and no one recognizes him, tries to pick up a girl. And she goes, get out of it, Shorty. It's hard to think of many pop bands would be pleased to be mocked in that way now about

their prowess, don't you think? Well, here's a question from John for you. Why in the opening scene are the Beatles running up Boston Place away from Marrilebone Station and then end up on a train going from Maritabon to Liverpool? There we are. That is one only you would ever know the answer to that, Samira. Well, the fact is they actually go from Marlabel to Marilabon because both the arrival and the departure shots were shot in two consecutive Sundays when trains didn't run at Marilla Bone Station at the same station. So the irony is they are arriving and departing every place is it safe. Oh really? Right. Okay. We should remember the oldest beetle at the time was probably John who would have been what 23, 24? How young were? I think Ringo is the oldest actually. Is he right? Okay. But still quite young. They were, and George turned 21 during filming, which is amazing.

And one of the lovely facts I researched was, of course, there's a scene on the train where that older gentleman doesn't like them and talks about, I fought the war for your sort, Nringo says, I bet you're sorry, you won. I mean, that's a really interesting joke because, and I looked it up in Hansard, conscription was only ended for those born after 1939, and they only found out in 1957 when they were 17. So John and Ringo missed conscription by a matter of months. Wow.

And I think John has spoken a lot about how the Beatles would never have happened if the conscription had still been in place. They wouldn't, would they? I mean, people do, some people, I'm going to dobby in here a bit, you're not particularly a fan of the Beatles, are you? No. I don't, I don't mind. That's fine. Do you know, I don't mind. No, I don't mind kind of being dogged in because actually, I think if you love music, you just have to be honest about what you love and why you love it.

So I completely respect your love of the Beatles. And I would hope, Samira, that you just go, well, okay, you know, eulogise about bands and people who you love. I think as soon as you get into that slightly kind of you're not worthy or you're not a good person if you don't understand this about the thing that I love, you're just on very, very dubious cultural territory, aren't you? Well, one of the key things about writing this book is it was written for the general reader who loves cinema and who likes to. idea of a bit of social history. So I do what I think no one has really done before, which has looked at the Beatles at a moment in time, what's going on around them, what's going on in terms of social change, the status of women, there's a whole chapter on women in the film,

the adult women in the careers, and it's not just screaming girls. I look at the fact that there's some racial diversity in that audience, which, an American audience would have noticed at a time of segregation. You know, the Commonwealth Windrush generation is starting to make a real difference, and at a lot of concerts, you notice how mixed the audience is. I spoke to a couple of girls in that concert sequence, although not all the quotes got into the book. I remember one of them telling me, she really noticed that the audience was mixed and how proud she felt that this was the New Britain. They all loved the Beatles. So my book is very much a social history book. It's not a book just for Beatles fans. If you are a fan, you'll get stuff out of it even you didn't

know. And if you don't know anything about the Beatles, I don't care about them. A bit like my discovery of the Stowe tape where they played at that boys boarding school, which was recorded 63 years ago, you get a real insight into why the Beatles made the impact they did in the aftermath of the perfumoe affair, what seemed to be the breaking down of class. I mean, we could argue it's all gone backwards. But at the time, the Beatles represented this exciting, fresh force. Northern working class boys were the coolest thing in Britain. And they made Britain the coolest country in the world.

This is a film which is all about just being British. It's not about looking glamorous. It's not about being an American and having a love interest from America, like Summer Holiday. And that's a film that takes over the world. There's a whole comparison in my book to the films of Cliff Richard. Well, yeah, I honestly had no idea that there was any kind of rivalry between Cliff Richard and the Beatles, but there was. Well, it's also much a direct rivalry because, of course, you know, Hank Marvin and the shadows

had a huge impact on the Beatles musically. But Paul McCartney has talked, and he's quoted in my book about watching Cliff Richard's career. You know, he was only a couple of years ahead of them in success. He was actually about the same age, I think. And the fact that he didn't break America was something they didn't want to have that happen to them. And I've just done some podcasts with American, you know, fans of the Beatles. And none of them have heard of Cliff Richard at all, you know, which makes me a little bit sad, because I actually am quite a fan of the Cliff Richard early films. But there's this great moment in July 64 when Wonderful Life opens on the 2nd of July, all shot on the exotic beaches of the Canary Islands. Four days later,

a hard day's night opens in black and white in a kind of grey Britain and this is the film that takes over the world. Right. I mean, it's absolutely fascinating. James just wants to do what he describes, and he's not wrong, it's obscure name-dropping. My late uncle slept in the same dormitory is Brian Epstein at boarding school. Our family business made furniture for Cynthia Lennon and I once sat next to Patty Boyd at a dinner party. Best wishes, he says. Well, you've met Paul McCartney-Samira.

You've interviewed him on stage. I know, I know. I spent, and I did a sound check with him beforehand and then we had dinner afterwards. It was really nice. Well, what's he like? He's just, you know, he's so unassuming about fame. And I think the thing that's not very shocking

was standing behind him on the stage of the World Festival Hall after the, after the whole thing, the standing ovation. And we discussed in beforehand security. And I'd said, you know, there'll be people will probably run down to the front of the stage that you probably don't want to go forward. And he did.

And he started to shake hands. And they really started to yank him hard. And I looked at the fanatical eyes, just looking at him. And I just came up to when I said, I think if you don't leave now, you might be here for a while. And I thought, I don't know how he just deals

with that so lightly. I genuinely don't. But the other thing that's really interesting about him is he's genuinely curious about other bands and other music. So I told him I had seen Iggy Pop, play at the Royal Festival. He's like, oh, what was he pop like? Like, he always wants to know who else is out there, what they're like. You know, as you know, he loves gigging. So I find that

he's really the real deal. What did he have for dinner? Well, we all had the same. I presume he had, it was a vegetarian dinner, of course. It was vegetables. I can't quite, you know, fairly enough, I don't remember what we ate for dinner. But I do remember he played Lady Madonna on the piano afterwards. You see, that's not bad, is it? Steve says you can argue all day whether they were the best, but there is no doubt they were the most important. Jamie says there's the Beatles and then there's just quite literally everyone else. This from Keith, what's the best band? Is it the one your mother would like you to bring home?

Or is it the Rolling Stones? Yeah, but the Rolling Stones don't have any mythology about them. I know performance is a great film. But there's a reason why the Beatles story resonates with us. It doesn't mean that the Rolling Stones is not a great band. It's just they don't capture the whole public imagination in the same way. And the biggest thing I would say about my book is it talks about what the Beatles did with film. George Harrison goes on to become one of the most important independent

film producers in the UK with Nail and I, Mona Lisa, the Long Good Friday, Time Bandit, these are the films that are cult films that we love, but all the films that won awards in the 80s were the Merchant Ivory films. And I think that sort of anti-authoritarian spirit that was at the heart of what the Beatles did musically was also at the heart of what we wanted to do film weekly.

We've only got a minute left, so I just want you to, I don't know, list your favourite three Beatles songs, please. I think you could ask you to listen to my favourite three Beatles songs. which would be a bit weird. No, well that would be silly. You really mean. I can list, you can't, you won't see me, which is off rubber soul. That's a really interesting song musically.

I'd probably say she loves you just because it's such an amazing song. And possibly Fool on the Hill, which I first discovered playing out on the piano without knowing what it sounded like with the Beatles. And I'm also going to show you my photograph of George Harrison at the Cabin Club, which I think is rather lovely. Well, just pop it up to the camera though. Everyone watching on YouTube can see that. Wow.

That's the original cavern. Amazing. Oh, Samira, well, thank you very much. A number of people have said they're definitely buying this book now, and John was very satisfied with what he describes as your great answer to his very nerdy question about Mariliban Station. I should send me lots of screenings and book signings around the country, so if you take my website, samaradd-blog, you might find I'm coming to a town near you. Brilliant stuff. Thank you, Samira. Take care of yourself.

Samira Ahmed, her book, A Hard Day's Night, is a BFI film classic, and it's out now. And as she says, she's really. roaming the country. And she used to be found working for another broadcasting organisation very much. She's very popular. The programme she does, I think you've described it as front row. Front row. Front row. Yeah. And, well, it's very good.

Stig Abel did it as well, didn't he at one time? He did. It feels like ancient history, doesn't it? Doesn't it just? He put a right old cat among the pigeons. You never presented front row, did you? I never presented front row. No. Neither of us are arty enough.

Right. No, gosh. Gosh, no. They wouldn't want my thoughts on. endless, endless channel 5 crime dramas. I've got them.

I mean, I've got thoughts about that. We know. Well, we're able to enjoy them. We certainly have. You have found a home for them here. Can I just say that the short stories that we're reading really suit the hot

climate at the moment if you're yet to jump into the interpreter of maladies by Jumbalahiri. I would highly recommend this week doing it because it won't take you long. You don't want to set yourself a very big literary task in heat like this and we will be discussing that probably three weeks time you're off next week yes ossecourt en france uh yes yes yes sir maurisessa and then the week after that i'm off

and i'm in austria in a cool lake and we'll reconvene we'll have a wonderful so sometime mid-july okay we'll have a lovely travel chat after that i think the heat's getting to all of us so we'll bring this to a conclusion for today. And how many people are going to be awake now? Oh no, gosh, nobody. Okay, no. All right, then. Not even worth saying goodbye, is it?

No, not really. Just so very quietly. Morning. You've overslept. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do it live, every day, Monday,

Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online, on DAB, or on the free Times Radio app. Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury, and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.