Off Air... with Jane and Fi - A bit of a ninja turtle is he? (with Griffin Dunne)

Episode Date: July 4, 2024

Jane is in Yorkshire whilst Fi heads to Surrey in preparation for election night so this episode is brought to you via the wonders of modern technology. Jane is hoping for romance by the curly wurly stand and Fi is practising the phrase 'Jeremy Hunt's Count'. Plus Fi speaks to Griffin Dunne, actor and director, about his memoir 'The Friday Afternoon Club'. Our next book club pick has been announced! 'Missing, Presumed' is by Susie Steiner. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail]. Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi. Assistant Producer: Hannah Quinn Podcast Producer: Eve Salusbury Executive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

She could see the funny side. Oh, all right. That's okay then. Yeah. But it was just, they were quite kind of diminutive, older women. Well, as we know,

that's no barrier to flatulence. VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books.

Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. London calling Yorkshire. London calling Yorkshire. Yes, I'm receiving. Can you hear me all right? Yes, I can. Honestly, sometimes the 21st century is fabulous.

I can see you. I can hear you. It's glorious. When it all works, it's fabulous. Absolutely brilliant. Now, I'm just settling into my hotel. Oh, the door's gone. My producer colleague has left to answer the door. It's all happening here. We're in a very nice facility. You know, in the past, I've struggled slightly with, well, most recently, ever so slightly, we struggled with accommodation in another part of the north of England. But this fee is lovely it's just how have you got a window that opens i've got a window that opens much more importantly i've got a freestanding bath have you now when you when you take a bath actually you're in yorkshire bath when you take a bath yes in a freestanding bath what do you think it adds

to that bath? Well, actually, that's quite an interesting question. Why does it, it feels, it feels a bit more dissolute and exciting. It does, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. Not to have a bath bath attached to the side of the wall, but God knows what it, I mean, there's also some lovely product left by the freestanding bath. So look, I'm set fair for an absolute. Do you think you make it count, or do you think, actually, you might just fall asleep after a flake-style infusion in your bath? There is a bit... Well, do you know what you also get in this hotel?

A free curly whirly. Whoa. I know, yeah. In fact, two free curly whirlies in every room. So, I'm not going to name the establishment not while we're here uh in case there are hordes that come you know you can imagine uh but i would heartily recommend it based on my experience so far so um and we have and we have yet to eat but there'll be a small meal taken before we go to the count i've got to be honest with you as we speak it is

what time is it it's about four o'clock in the afternoon isn't it and there's a bit of a lull i don't know quite how i'm going to fill the time after this. So this podcast might have to be seven or eight hours long. Is that OK? Yeah. Well, no, because I've yet to get to my count. Right. I think it's all right now that we can say which counts we're going to. And mine, I have to be very, very careful about, Jane, because I am going to Jeremy Hunt's count and I say that again I've practiced saying it out loud Jeremy Hunt's count and you just have to be very careful because there's no humor to be found in that kind of accidental off-com moment and we won't be making that tonight so I've got to head off to godalming uh pretty pretty quick

actually after doing the podcast so i tell you what i'm really envious of the curly whirlies though i've got a feeling that we're going to the kind of establishment that just has some rather municipal shortbread biscuits on a hospitality tray and i will be stealing them all of them okay i'll bring you back a curly whirly then. I might take the little packet of hot chocolate as well. I never, ever, ever, ever, ever have a hot chocolate until I'm in a hotel room and then I have a hot chocolate. Well, I think we both might need a hot chocolate a bit later in the night stroke morning. Just worth saying that no one in the real world has referenced the election at all. Not during the journey, not once. When we got to the hotel to

check in, the lady who checked us in seemed really surprised that we were going out later. And even more surprised when we said we might not be back till about half five in the morning. You could see her thinking, what's wrong with these two? What are they going to be up to overnight? And why have they checked into this hotel? So it's just, it is just worth saying, because we live in this bubble of excitement around events. And for a lot of people, it's, yeah, they may have voted. They may not have voted. It's not uppermost in their mind, not even today.

I think democracy can, you know, leave a very light trail on some people's lives, but that's absolutely fine, isn't it? And if you don't want to think about it too much and you don't want your politicians shouting in your ear all of the time, then that's the joy of the UK, isn't it? It is. You really don't have to.

But I tell you what, if you're a fan of Times Radio, you can't avoid it because that's who we are at the moment, the election station. Yes, but I love it. Do we stop saying that tomorrow? What do we say? The relatively new administration station. Excellent.

Keep that going. I just want to pay tribute to the, I'm going to say, slightly taciturn Yorkshireman that I shared a train table with on the journey up here. And one of them had a pizza box or what I thought was a pizza box. And he opened it, he flipped the lid open, and inside was a full English, which he then ate. With beans, tomato, fried egg, two slices of toast, bacon, sausage. And he ate it. I didn't know you could do that.

It's something I'm going to explore myself when I travel from London's glamorous King's Cross station. It looks like you've hit a stereotype quite early. Yes, I'm afraid I've bumped into one. On the six o'clock to Godalming, what do you reckon? I think probably a small bottle of Whispering Angel and something from Waitrose's Levantine table range. And two blokes in pink trousers, at least.

I'll keep you posted. Apologies to Surrey, beautiful part of the world. Right, shall we head into some emails our guest today is griffin dunn uh actor and director i think if you uh if you've watched this is us that's the most recent thing that he has starred in uh he was playing is it uncle nick i haven't watched this is us so forgive me um for not being able to immediately tell you a little bit more about his character he's written the most extraordinary memoir which is called The Friday Afternoon Club which you start off thinking is just going to be a quite kind of hell-raising

tale about his Hollywood lifestyle because he's born into this incredible family who kind of lived next door to the Kennedys his aunt Joan Did Joan Didion. And you think, oh, it's going to be a kind of Rupert Everett style romp through the deep waters of celebrity. But actually, it's a family torn apart by a horrendous murder. And it turns into a completely different book that is as well written as the first kind of dilettante stuff is. It's remarkable in that sense. So he is our guest on the podcast, but we do have emails, even though we're apart and not in the studio. And thank you very much indeed for them.

Shall we head into, hello from Mackay, North Queensland. It could be Mackie, I don't know. It comes from Catriona who says, I'm one of five sisters. Your chat reminds me of whenever we all get together and walk and talk. Lots to tell you of different lifestyles to you in England. We have an empty nest and have spent our lives boating and camping and now in retirement have bought a huge caravan off grid type.

And we're heading off around Australia. It's a thing here. Everybody who can afford to does it. Some people sell their house and head off, but we're putting our son in our beach home and taking off for two years. Retirement in Australia for our age group is self-funded. So we have worked to pay into our accumulation account and now live on an income stream that will support us into our 90s. Life is good. Sounds it, doesn't it? So there is no state pension in Australia, is that what you're saying from that? Yes, I think that's exactly what Catriona is telling us. So you've got to have thought about it and done something about it. And, you know, she is living the good life because they did.

But I love the idea, actually, that there's a whole aged community that's travelling around doing the same thing. But I suppose that happens here, here doesn't it you buy the marauder or the challenger caravan and you head off and you meet like-minded people could be you and me jane well i mean it won't be but um keep keep that thought in your head um i know that's probably the kind of thing that keeps you awake in the middle of the night i know i live in hope that you're going to send me an invitation. Welcome aboard Jane Garvey's Invincible and we'll head off up the toll roads together. Oh, yes. Don't get me started on the toll road.

You'll only take me with you because I'll pay for the toll road. Chugging the B roads, love. It is pricey. Andy has had a celebrity encounter with a Times Radio colleague of ours and he claims he's told me about this before in another incarnation, but I don't remember. So please don't apologize. My late wife and our young sons were holidaying in New York, he says. At the end of a long, hot day of sightseeing around Manhattan, we dropped in for a quick browse in the Barnes & Noble bookstore.

Now, that is amazing. I don't remember all that much about my, I've only been to New York twice. Barnes & Noble, they're a really classy bookshop, aren't they? Absolutely huge bookshop. Is that right? Yes, that is right, Jane. Yes, thank you. I'm just checking in with you because you're much more worldly than me. After a few minutes, my elder son found me and told me excitedly he'd seen somebody off the telly in the next aisle. I followed him until he pointed out a figure with his back to us who looked a bit touristy with a backpack and a baseball cap. The moment he turned around, however, I realised it was none other than the then boy wonder leader of from home, but as soon as he realised he'd been spotted, he actually initiated a conversation with us

and we exchanged pleasantries about his and our holidays. We bumped into each other again at the till and I couldn't help but take a sneaky peek at his book choices. There wasn't a political tome among them. Instead, it was an assortment of books on Asian cuisine and to my great surprise, the martial arts. Who'd have thought, says Andy in Margate. So he's a bit of a ninja turtle, is he, William Hague? I've never met him. I've only ever heard him. Do you know him?

Well, I don't know him at all, no. I don't think I've ever met him either, but he is well known for his martial arts isn't he is he yes because um didn't didn't sebastian co and him did lots of judo why do i remember that oh my god yeah no you've absolutely you're right they did yeah yes they did they were both black belts or something like that it's extraordinarily butch isn't it well no good good luck to them that's right i think yes there was they used to start every working day by... Yes, by doing a... Whatever you call it. I've made some movements there. Yeah. Well, hey,

when things get... Maybe we could bring that into our working lives at some point. Let's do that. Andy, he does say he's told me about this before. Andy, never apologise. As Fi will testify, I repeat so many of my anecdotes. And it's always good to see them again.

It's always good to see them, Jane. A gentle embellishment occasionally occurs. And by the way, I'm here to say there's never anything wrong with doing that. If you've got a story and you think you can improve it, just do it. As long as no one else can actually pull it apart, just go for it. Life's too short. I agree. Put a bit of velvet trim on it and it'll see you through to the next year uh kindest from joe catching up on the podcast at athens airport you're making me laugh out loud heading back to london today so

that my partner can vote well done you joe making the effort for democracy a severe storm warning has just been issued by the greek. It comes through on your mobile phone. Who knew? Holding thumbs that we will get back in time. Well, I very much hope that you did get back in time. You've got another, what, six hours to go? But just on that point of the warnings that come through on your phone. So we had some of those when we were on Corfu, Jane,

about the serious heat and also some thunderstorms that were heading over the day that we left and i'm not sure that we get that kind of thing in this country do we but obviously just as soon as you arrive in the country every single mobile phone network irrespective of where you've come from will send out these emergency weather warnings to you. And that's how, obviously, they warn people about impending forest fires and stuff like that. But it just took us by surprise because, obviously,

all of our phones went off at the same time with a ding-dong alert kind of alarm sound. Well, you remember, shortly after we joined Times Radio, the government practised its own emergency. They did. They practiced the emergency. And we all got into a terrible bath about it, didn't we? It's quite a lot of controversy, isn't it? We should get used to the fact that our mobile phones are going to be used more often.

But the interesting thing as well was we all thought, are we being scammed? And I wonder whether that's a very British thing to think you're interrupting my holiday time. It must be a scam it can't possibly be the greek government looking out for us and warning us about something that will potentially save our lives did you take did you take nancy to the polling station uh no uh it got a little bit complicated and she didn't have her photo id turns out she's not actually on the electoral roll oh my god that's disgusting no i didn't manage to it didn't quite coincide with the teenagers walking the dog this morning right so

no she's not on the mean no i'm sorry about that everybody well for what it's worth um you actually had to queue to get into our polling station this morning and it's worth that's good it's worth nothing by the way that observation because it was about quarter past eight in the morning. So people were popping in on their way to work. But I have never known it to be as busy as it was today. Yeah, I wonder what the turnout will be. I mean, I hope it's I hope it's good. I hope it's higher than previously, because, you know, there are a lot of worries. It's not we can't talk about politics. Shush, move it on. We can talk about having voted. That's all right, isn't it? Jane and Fee says,

Anonymous, I'm listening to your emails about embarrassing encounters with window cleaners. It reminded me of the time I worked on the 40th floor of a building in Frankfurt. My boss asked me to bring some papers in for his three important visitors to sign. I opened his office door and I walked confidently towards the group of four vice presidents, all with their backs to the window. At that precise moment, two heads appeared behind them outside the window. As I said, 40 floors up. I was momentarily completely stunned, not realising the window cleaners were still in their gurney and rising slowly to the 41st floor. So shocked, in fact, that I produced a shock volley of gunfire out of my back passage.

Bang, bang, bang, it went, but no one said a thing. Kind regards, Anonymous. Yes, I mean, we'll keep it that way, obviously. I can see your name, but don't you worry now. I think that kind of genuine, very genuine digestive shock reaction is um very relatable that's all I'll say about that in fact I'll probably go a bit further and say completely and utterly relatable and thank you for sharing and it's it's always just it is funny so those people have done well not to laugh I mean it, I suppose it's kinder in an office situation

to just pretend nothing has happened at all. But, you know, farts will always be funny. There were three quite old women sunbathing next to us on a beach in Corfu, and one of them rolled over on the sunbed and let rip quite a high volume, Jane. And the whole beach was laughing. And they were laughing too.

She could see the funny side. Oh, all right. That's okay then. Yeah. But it was just, they were quite kind of diminutive, older women. Well, as we know, that's no barrier to flatulence. The volume was a little bit surprising. Was it?

Yeah, it was. It was a lovely holiday moment. I tell you what, I've just watched, just looking out of the window and there are some, this is very much the kind of territory where you'd wear a fleece. Do you know what I mean? And you'd wear those trousers with pockets. And I've just seen a redoubtable looking chap coming back from what looks like a hike he's got a backpack on he's got a red fleece and he's got his trousers with pockets loads of useful pockets um very much that kind of area this and you know look i love i love a good i love a

good fleece and i love a good walk um where better to end the walk than the pub i mean it's lovely and that's we are sort of yeah very very much in that neck of the woods here. And I respect it. I don't think you're ever going to come back. I can feel the romance is just blooming in you tonight. I do feel a little in love with parts of Yorkshire, yeah. Good luck, Yorkshire. Well, I've headed your way and I may never leave.

It's interesting. We've had an email. I don't know whether it's this one or no, it's not this one, but I'm going to read this one out because it's about whiteners. We've had at least one email from somebody saying, you know, we should stop talking about domestic issues. And I think we both feel quite strongly that we just want to live in the real world where actually not only do we both freely admit that we take a lot of pleasure from being at home, fiddling about in our homes, generally doing the domestic stuff. But also that is the reality for practically, well, in fact, I'm going to say every woman I know. Are there exceptions? In fact, I'm going to say it, every woman I know. Are there exceptions? I know that there are men who do lots of housework and have household responsibilities, but it's still the truth and the lived reality

that the responsibility tends to fall to women and some of the pleasure in doing it as well. I'm getting myself in deep waters here potentially. What do you think? Well, I completely agree. So in our little book what an opportunity to mention the book chain just came out of nowhere nowhere so we did a whole chapter on the fetishization of domesticity and because we're lucky aren't we that we can make a slight fetish

out of it because we aren't having to put our clothes through the mangle, you know, go down to a shared bath area to wash our smalls and all of that kind of stuff. So you can turn it into something that if you've been out at work all day, you come home to and you can sometimes turn it into a slightly pleasurable activity because it's not your entire working day. So I never want to apologise for that, really really I find that if I didn't have that in my life if I won the lottery the last thing that I would do is uh you know employ lots of staff so I never had to do a chore again because when I do my chores that's how I process everything else that's going on and that's not to say that I don't have a cleaner I do have cleaner but but I but I

would say probably that accounts for about 30 percent of what needs cleaning and doing in the house because obviously both my kids are still living at home and yes I don't want to apologize for it at all Jane it's always going to be in my life that kind of pottering and sorting and prissing and and and actually you know sometimes taking a lot of pride in it a lot of pride well you know you keep you keep a lovely home i don't touch it's not what else could i say i couldn't say you keep a horrible home you keep a mucky house well Well done. Just a lovely lady. Anita says, quick word about these whiteners.

Everybody who knows me is aware that I'm a white clothes freak. I also cannot bear white footwear, which is not white. Therefore, I use those whiteners successfully all the time. These are the whitening sachets. The trick is to soak the clothes in them before washing, but you have to soak them overnight. Or you put them, the sachets that is, in the wash for that long eco cycle that goes on for three hours. I also add Vanish or other whitener, cheaper supermarket one, as well as those sachets. Blimeyy Anita dedicates a lot of time to this um she also

says uh white my white is ridiculously white my 80% white wardrobe proves it and whenever I see anybody in not absolutely white converse I get huge anxiety oh gosh blimey well isn't that funny because I get quite a lot of anxiety when I see people in absolutely white converse. Because they're just box fresh, aren't they? They're box fresh. And you just think by the end of the day, there'll be a scuff and you'll be disappointed. And that seems a sad kind of a very high bar to have in your life that will make you sad inevitably. And I also I just think they have always thought they look like kind of some of them are so big and so white. They just they look comical, don't they? They look like you've put a cruise ship on your foot. Yeah. And you're heading off into choppy waters.

Look, Anita, these are handy tips. And do you know what? As soon as Jane and I get back from covering the election in a professional journalistic way, trust us, we will be soaking clothes in whitener and we'll let you know how it goes. Overnight, Anita. Overnight and then putting it on a... Do you know, I don't think I've got a long eco cycle for three hours. I think 2.24 is my longest. Oh, that's a big one. Malcolm in High Peak has got a question.

This question came to him in a dream please don't start a trend there malcolm we don't want any more questions coming in that have occurred to people in dreams uh but malcolm dreamt uh does the king vote if not could he if he wanted to would he need voter id and would a 10 quid note be sufficient? Well, the monarchy can't vote. No, I don't think. He or she, because they have to be in charge of appointing the person who us plebeians have voted for. But at what point? I mean, as the prince, can you vote?

Can the Prince of Wales vote knowing that one day he will be king? Gosh, I'm not sure. Am I right to say that? The monarch can't cast a vote, can they? No. No, no, definitely not. No, I don't think any of them would ever vote. I mean, I don't know how far that extends,

but no, absolutely not. But it must, do you know what, it would be interesting to find out where the cutoff point is. Yeah, I love it. Because also that would be very telling, wouldn't it? There was a, if I'm honest Because also that would be very telling, wouldn't it? There was a, if I'm honest,

there was a slightly irritating man, and it was a man, happens to have been a man, outside the polling station today who was in charge of asking people if they had remembered their ID. And, you know, for the first time, I used my bus pass as ID and felt good about it. But I also hoped that the lovely woman in charge of the desk where you hand your thing over would say she was amazed that I had one,

but she didn't. She just said, thanks very much, love. So, you know, just one of those things. Well, I wonder whether the same thing will happen to Keir Starmer. Well, do you think he's got one of those oyster cards? He probably has because he's older than me. Yeah? Yes, I bet he has.

Yeah, he probably won't need, well, we can't predict the outcome of the election. No, that's not. We've waited for him immediately. Yeah, but I wonder, I mean, the king must be one of the few people who's never had to use the expression, do you know who I am? Have you ever, be honest, have you ever used that? Me? So, well, I think i've told this terrible

oh good tell it again but i was very late one morning and because we did have to get there very early in the morning i was allocated a parking space in that car park uh underneath broadcasting house i think you've thrown up in that car park haven't you I have yes yes I have so I was in the Jane Garvey memorial vomit car park uh but I wasn't in it that was the problem I got to the gate and uh I hadn't brought the right dongle or fob or something or other to get in and so I buzzed the help desk and a very nice person answered and I said you know I've come to do I've come to a program on radio four and they said we just can't let you in. You haven't got the right ID. And I did end up saying, check the Radio Times.

OK, that's a good line. Would you like to check the Radio Times? But could you check the Radio Times? I absolutely am who I say I am. It'll have a picture. I am that person. Please could I come in because I'm really really late and the barrier went up but you just think if that call was being recorded for training purposes I'm I'm not sure that um that I would come out of that very well have you uh no so you just remember your ID tonight at the I'm gonna get this right the Jeremy Count Hunt the The Jeremy Count Hunt. It's dangerous, isn't it? Jeremy Hunt's Count.

It's impossible. In Godalming. It's actually really hard. Matt Jorley's got to introduce me several times this evening coming from Jeremy Hunt's Count. And we'll see how that goes, Jane. We'll see how it goes. Thank you for reading out my window cleaner story, says Marie.

Your delivery was super. I thought Marie was banned. I banned her. Did you ban her? I banned Marie after all her smut. She's appalling, but brilliant. Oh, I see. So you've made a fantastic pun there accidentally, haven't you?

She's banned Marie. But she's paying you a compliment. Loved the show. your delivery was superb uh and she's just watched a clip of said film that was a window cleaner one yeah and as you would imagine it is virtually unwatchable the use of the word for war is prolific robin asquith is mostly wearing very tight flared jeans or brilliant white y fronts uh the women are scantily clad and there are a lot of soap suds. Weren't the 70s just brilliant? And actually there were a lot of soap suds in the 1970s, weren't there?

When he wanted to convey some kind of erotic moment, there was usually a woman in a freestanding bath, Jane, never a bath against the wall, in full makeup. Her hair had not gone damp and frizzy due to the moisture in the bathroom. And she had soap suds aplenty. Because that was, people literally walked down the street in those days, didn't they? Covered in soap suds to protect their modesty. It was how we rolled.

It could be a little breezy, but it was just what happened back in the 1970s. If we've got any plumbers listening to this podcast, I would love to know whether it's easier or harder to plumb in a freestanding bath. I just I can't work out whether I'm really interested in the whole concept of the freestanding bath, the bath in the middle of the room. You know, where did that why is that considered fashionable? Slightly, slightly risque. Whereas the I just think it gives me the giggles. If I walk into a hotel room, Jane, and there's a bath in the bedroom, I just immediately, it makes me very, very nervous.

Very nervous indeed. I mean, it's just wrong. There's a line of modesty that's being crossed. There's slippy tiles. A good point. Damp patches. It's not for me. It's just not for me.

Sorry, you're very much wearing your health and safety head there, and it's good to hear it. No, absolutely right. Quite right, Fi. Okay, look, we've got a long night ahead. I'm here to tell you that I think the hardest bit will be between about half past one and three but then i guess there'll be stuff happening won't there so we'll be amused we'll be all right and you know i've got plenty of people

on whatsapp groups that i can bore through the night and i could always just call you yes i might do you do you ever play waffle i might send you a few archive waffles to join in with. Voice over describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. Voice over on settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books, contacts, calendar, double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day.

Accessibility. There's more to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Griffin Dunn, actor and director. You might know him from This Is Us. His breakthrough role was in An American Werewolf in London. Possibly you've seen him in After Hours, in which he was directed by Martin Scorsese, and more of that to come.

His life really is extraordinary. It is a proper showbiz world, but also more than touched by tragedy because his sister Dominique was murdered by her boyfriend. His mother suffered from MS, and his father only felt able to come out late in life, but had always had affairs with men during his marriage. And Griffin himself has been a friend to the stars. Carrie Fisher was a roommate. Joan Didion is his aunt. Sean Connery saved him from drowning. The book is called The Friday Afternoon Club. It's an encyclopedia of 80s and 90s glamorous living, as well as being a testament to a family's ability to get through heartbreak. I started by asking him to tell us a little bit more about his childhood years in California. And just to warn you, obviously, we do talk about domestic abuse in its most vile form during this interview.

Well, it's kind of apt because that I'm in England speaking to you because my father sort of modeled our upbringing in America, in Beverly Hills, California, sort of as if we were a royal family. And not without really any irony at all. We were dressed in matching outfits, and my parents were very, very social. And they gave, you know, kind of beautiful dinner parties. and they gave, you know, kind of beautiful dinner parties and they once gave a ball called a black and white ball that was based on the ascot races in the movie My Fair Lady. And, you know, there was a lot of pomp and sort of circumstances at that point in my father's life when I was a child.

These were terribly important things to him, of how things looked and who the celebrities that came to his home were and the importance on fame and being friends with famous people. So we were children in that. We were props, really, in that kind of whirlwind, that social whirlwind. One of the things when I was writing the book, I was able to reflect on it and really from a place of wonder and amazement as a grown-up because my father kept these scrapbooks, these leather-bound scrapbooks, also made in England, that were of the pictures that he took of the people

like Cecil Beaton who who came to our home, and Princess Margaret when they went to England on a European tour. But, you know, in painting the picture, the adults were the production designers, and as children, we were sort of the props. We didn't really know who these people were. And did you feel very different to other children or was your life so self-contained as many childhoods are that you just thought yeah this is it you know my parents live next door to the Kennedys that's just what happens? I'm afraid you know I went to a school where just

about every kid in my school their parents were in the business in one way or another. And so it wasn't unusual, you know, our upbringing. We weren't aware that our lives would have looked really unusual to an outsider. Let's talk about Dominique. Will you tell us just a bit about her, Griffin, in, you know, the prime of her life? She was very talented. She was incredibly beautiful. She was a real shining star, wasn't she? Yeah, the darling of our entire house. She was the youngest of three. And from a very early age,

she seemed to know exactly who she was and what she wanted. She would boss my brother and I around. Little Miss Bossy, we would call her. We would do anything to sort of please her. She had an affection for animals that was almost saintly. These sort of mangy cats and dogs would all sort of be attracted to her. And they were homeless, and she would bring them into our home. And Mom would go, oh, God, not another one, not another one.

This cat doesn't even have any teeth. And she just had a disaffection for animals that was extraordinary. And when she decided to be an actress, by that time I was an actor, or trying to be an actor. I'd been struggling along for a couple of years. So when she told me, I was like, come on, really, it's really hard. You don't want to do this. Well, she was on a soundstage less than about a month later

starring in a television movie. She had enormous talent that was apparent to everyone. Her film debut was in Poltergeist, which was produced by Steven Spielberg, who recognized her great talent. And, you know, I think we would have worked together quite a bit. That was our hope.

And her dreadful fate, Griffin, was to meet a very, very bad man. Let's not dwell too much on him. But obviously, what he did took away her life. It changed the life of your family. Obviously, what he did took away her life. It changed the life of your family. And when you first met him, you felt something, didn't you, about him? You felt something was wrong. I did. And, you know, I couldn't really articulate it. You know, I quote from a friend of mine who wrote a very insightful book called The Gift of Fear.

A friend of mine wrote a very insightful book called The Gift of Fear that we, at moments in our life, if we listen to our instinct, we know there's danger ahead. We know not to cross the street. We know, let's not get in that elevator. We know, I met this guy and I got a kind of a chill. And it wasn't like, oh, wow, he looks so dangerous or scary. It was just, it was an obsequiousness on his part and a fawning that he had toward me. At that time, I'd produced a movie and he related to the main character in the movie,

the male character, who was actually an abusive, possessive, kind of scary guy um and he said oh that's me that's me now if it doesn't get more obvious than that when that guy's telling you in our effort to please Dominic we didn't want to you know she was happy we didn't want to step on our happiness but it's an all too familiar tale isn't it of domestic abuse of the man who is violent but then begs forgiveness says that he's going to change and your sister you know a kind and loving person chose to believe that and it cost her her life you've mentioned the trial and I mean it's just quite breathtaking reading about it in your book

Griffin the kind of things that were said about your sister, the blame that was apportioned to her. Can you tell us just a little bit or as much as you'd like to about that? Sure. Well, the defence used a very common tactic against women who have been victims of murder or rape or sexual assault, which is where they blame the victim. It's a very successful and ugly tactic that continues, where they tarnish the victim's reputation, who can't speak for themselves. And that is what they did with Dominique. And that is what they did with Dominique. The narrative was, you know, this is a girl who has dumped the man who loved her to pursue her career. Her career was more important.

And the most appalling thing was that this man had a history of violence against women that my sister, nor I, us, obviously, had any awareness of. And so when a witness was brought forward of a previous girlfriend who was terrified to testify but bravely went on the stand and finally agreed to get on the stand, the judge dismissed the jury for her testimony, ruling it prejudicial. And then they ruled it manslaughter, not even murder, like a traffic accident. And this fellow served three and a half years. Yep. I am so, so sorry. And, you know, anybody listening to this will feel the pain that is obviously still there for you and for all of your family but what's also very interesting in the book Griffin is that you write so beautifully

and and it is always with love about all of the things that have happened in your family and I wonder how you felt by the time you had completed the memoir because your attention to detail uh is there all of the way through and it just must have been i don't it must have been exhausting was it exhausting it was actually not um it was like i couldn't wait to get back to the book even when i was shooting you know during breaks and shooting uh i would run to you know finish the sentence or the paragraph I was on. I was quite driven. And I think what drove me was I did find attention to detail. Because the family, my family, they were so vivid to me. It was like they were with me.

It was like I was in their company or they in mine. And their voices were so clear. And, you know, when I was writing in my office, I had pictures, family pictures on a cork board, and pictures around my apartment that I've been there. You know, you pass pictures, you stop looking at them after a while. they're just sort of objects. Even the pictures seem to come alive. And I like the vibrancy of it. I like the immediacy of it. And even when I was, I would make myself laugh when I was writing about Carrie Fisher,

who was my best friend and roommate in New York. Sometimes I'd become emotional and be you know, being choked up while I was actually typing. What's lovely for the reader, Griffin, is that there's so much conversation in the book. You recreate quite a lot of conversation, which does absolutely bring all of these characters to life. Will you just tell us the fantastic Carrie Fisher story about her reaction to the first script that she was sent. Oh, yeah, that movie. Yeah, her first movie.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she got this movie, and she came back to her apartment, and she said, I got this part in this movie shooting in England. I'm going to be gone for a while. And, you know, I was struggling, and I'm like, well, what is it? How come I didn't read for it? And there was this guy named Mark, I think his name was Hamill,

who's like my age. I never got a chance to be at it. Harrison Ford, she told me, was going to be in it. And I actually knew him when he was a carpenter, when he built the deck for my aunt and uncle's beach house. And so she'd check in from England when she was shooting. She'd go, oh, God, this movie is such a turkey. I said, what's the, I can't keep the name in my head straight.

What is it? It's called Star Wars. Is that one word? Two? I don't get it. No, Star, then Wars. And I can't tell you how stupid. I wear bagels on the side of my head. We're running

down hallways and I got ray guns without triggers and a monkey's following us, this big gorilla and a little guy in a trash can is rolling along. Oh, you're so lucky not to be in this movie. Yeah. Star Wars. Two words. And one final anecdote, which is the one that you tell about Martin Scorsese's instructions to you when he was directing you, which you chose to disobey. You know, I was the producer with Amy Robinson of After Hours and playing the lead role. And Martin Scorsese was directing. And before we began shooting, he said,

listen, kid, I need you to be celibate for the eight weeks we're going to be shooting this movie. Can you do that? I need you to have that look of, like, desperation. Like, you know, can you? I said, eight weeks, no problem, of course. And, you know, on the last week of shooting we broke for the weekend when i was uh um having a scene where i'm massaging uh linda farantino who's absolutely stunningly gorgeous and you know she's very

scantily clad and i'm massaging her and her. I'm so filled with desire, my voice is almost cracking. And then we break on this Friday morning, and we're going to pick it up Monday, Monday night. All the shoots were at night. Well, between then and Monday, something happened, and I disobeyed that one thing he asked me, and thinking there'll be no problem. I'm picking up where I left off on the scene, and suddenly I'm terribly relaxed.

I'm like very, I'm just very cool about the whole thing. I'm very Pepe Le Pew, and I'm, and Marty goes, wait, cut, cut. Did you, did you get late? I went, oh, no, Marty, no. Oh, yes, I did. I'm so sorry. He said, you just ruined the scene. You ruined the picture.

I don't even want to shoot this thing anymore. He's threatening to walk up the picture. And I just, I practically bag him. I said, just give me another chance. And I went back. I start massaging Linda Farentino. And we pick right up where we left off, because it turns out that lust and fear look exactly alike. And the scene worked great.

Griffin Dunn, and I would really recommend the book. As I say in the interview, you know, it's it's really two things it is an extraordinary tale of uh life lived right at the zenith of show business but it's also about something horrendous happening within a family the fallout from it and the lack of justice for Dominique uh so it is it's really worth a read it tells you a lot about life and. And I did watch This Is Us. I didn't finish it, but I started watching it during the pandemic. I found parts of it impossibly moving.

So I recommend it, but I think you have to be quite, I would watch, just dive into it, watch the first episode and I guarantee you'll be hooked, at least for a while. But in the end, I just found it too much. But that's not a criticism.

In a way, it's a tribute to the brilliant acting, fantastic idea. The first episode blew me away. It was so good. And I think people, yeah, if you're looking for something to be completely lost in, then that's the show for you. Excellent. Good recommendation. We should do some more TV recommendations before the summer is out, shouldn't we?

But there doesn't seem to be an awful lot around at the moment. I know quite a few people are saying exactly the same thing. What is around, though, is the opportunity for a tote bag, everybody. Our merchandising is very much available. We've got some totes to award to. Have you got the list as well? We've got some totes to award to. Have you got the list as well? Hang on. Is it in email? We should say we're doing,

we're actually being quite 21st century today, aren't we? And working. We are remote. We're remote. We're all over the place. It's on the WhatsApp group that's called Annoying Screeners. Okay. Yes, I've got it.

Yeah. So here we go. Totes are awarded to Natalie Owlsey, Celia Lyon, Alice Farnham, Soprano Penny, Joe Moa, Jill Fox. Lorna, Jill Salen and Joe Salen. Does that make sense? And Celia Lyon. We've done Celia. She's getting two.

No, she's not. Sorry. Celia, you're not having two. It's like a BBC repeat there. So congratulations to all of you. You don't have to do anything in order to get the totes. You basically just have to be a listener to our fair. But if you could tell your friends about us,

we'd be hugely grateful just because we'd like to grow the community because it's quite good fun. Well, I think that was very briskly and efficiently done. You're quite right. No, we would like to. We'd like to grow it. We really would. But it is, on the whole whole a really nice place to be.

And we do enjoy your emails. And just thanks so much for continuing to chip in. And if any of you are going to be with us through the night or for part of the night, let us know what you think. I mean, please be kind. Let us know what you think. Or indeed, let us know by next Monday just how you spent your election night wherever you are in the world. And actually, we'd love we'd love emails on the subject of elections from America and from France at the moment. So because you're pretty much impacted and going through it, as are we. So, yeah, that would be good, wouldn't it? What's the address, Fi? It's Jane and Fi at Times.Radio.

She very nearly gave her home address there i was slipping i was slipping a little bit there um but i obviously i agree with everything that my esteemed colleague has just said uh and good luck jane tonight uh i i'm absolutely with you uh that the very difficult part will be approaching three o'clock in the morning uh and i really genuinely hope that you find someone to eat your other curly whirly with. Thank you. Well, maybe something will bloom at the count.

You never know. I think, do you know what? If a chance encounter over a curly whirly takes your life off in a totally different direction i think we would all stand and give you a very very large round of applause thank you right goodbye um we'll reconvene on monday who knows what kind of world we'll be living in then goodbye Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fi.

Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till four on times radio the jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case so you can get the radio online on dab or on the free times radio app offer is produced by eve salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler. VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening.

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