Off Air... with Jane and Fi - A bit of pampering and a digest shot (with Jodie Whittaker)

Episode Date: March 10, 2025

Welcome to this carefully curated episode. We begin with the admin section before moving on to toddler Crufts, ear health and pet anal glands... Enjoy! Plus, Fi speaks to actress Jodie Whittaker about her new show 'Toxic Town'. The next book club pick has been announced! 'Eight Months on Ghazzah Street' is by Hilary Mantel.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Slightly smacks of the people who turn up at A&E claiming to have fallen on their toilet brush. Yes, fallen on the remote control. Yeah, oh I don't know, I just fell on it. With the Fizz loyalty program, you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan. You know, for texting and stuff. And if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan, you're not with Fizz. Switch today.

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But Fee, we could. You're on by the way. Oh shit! Turn that off. Oh this is great, because Eve's back. So the other producers who've been forced to work with us over the last three weeks, they tread more carefully, don't they? They're far more respectful, but Eve comes back. Yep, mic's on. Let's expose the reality of these two. So you had

a good time, Eve. Yes, she does look remarkably well. So it's not just the suntan and it's not just the even more blonde hair. She's looking very happy. She's looking very happy and bouncy. Do you know what she said to me earlier? You know what it's like when you're in a bikini on the back of a moped in tropical rain? I said no, I don't know and I never will. It's not too late. Anyway you clearly had a wonderful time. What was the name of the country? The Philippines. And it's recommended. Yes well that's interesting. Yeah that's interesting. So want to put in the old itinerary if you're planning a trip? I wouldn't be able to get as far as the Philippines because that is a lot of flightage

So I think was it what it was about a 32 hour trip to get to where you are Yeah, that's a wee bit too long for me watching white lotus. Are you watching white? No, never seen it I know people are banging on gone. Okay. Well, I'm not convinced by this series actually. It's Incredibly slow moving and I know that's to really ratchet up the tension and stuff, but at the same time, you need something to actually be happening. Is it a murder thing? Characters to be developing, please. Yes, it is a murder thing.

We know that because at the beginning, a body floated past in the lily pond and there'd been the sounds of gunfire. So we know something bad has happened and they do that one week earlier thing. But just watching it, it just really confirms my sincere belief that I will never step foot outside Europe again. Because all of that, you know, tropical wonder and stuff, I look at it and my automatic go-to thought is, oh, that's a very long way away, instead of thinking oh how beautiful that looks. Well I was back onto the second series of a show

I'd forgotten existed in the first place, Ten Pound Poms, back on the BBC last night. This is about people who emigrated to Australia for ten pounds, which did genuinely happen post-war and their lives are pretty challenging for you but what is funny clearly they didn't film, I don't think they can possibly have filmed in an Australian summer because it does look quite cold in a lot of the scenes and they're sort of they're on the beach but you could tell it's not it's not hot it's certainly not as hot as they're pretending it is so I'm definitely do let me know if you've been watching Ten Pound Poms and maybe you've got the Ten Pound Poms experience in your family or maybe it's available in Australia.

It probably is actually. I imagine it must be a, didn't look, it might be one of those co-productions with an Australian company. Because it doesn't, you and I are a little bit Australia resistant, it doesn't make the ten pound palm experience look terribly appealing. I'm sure it wasn't. Well no, I don't think it was. I mean apparently some people have had it easier than others but our family at the heart of it all are living in a sort of a corrugated iron hut.

And they're still an awful lot of people who say they shouldn't have gone for many, many reasons. Oh of course, but it doesn't look brilliant. So, funnily enough, we're watching a little bit of maths, married at first sight Australia, and they're all freezing. They have these really amazing outdoor weddings, in inverted commas, that are actually married,

but they do the ceremony with these huge... What do you mean they're not married? Well, they don't legally marry the people who are taking part. They just pretend that they have. Oh, I see. So there'll be a celebrant who says carefully worded words and they agree to marry each other and you know, then they have their 12 week experiment afterwards. It's going incredibly tits up for most couples so far.

You amaze me. But it also just, the weather the weather just doesn't look right and you do think why have they filmed all of these outdoor ceremonies if they know that the weather's not right because you wouldn't take that chance in this country which you would base a whole series of weddings around an English summer. Well but people really sweetly still do have their own wedding. But not 12 weddings. No, no, to be filmed on the televisions. But wasn't the weather lovely at the weekend?

It was beautiful. It was so really upliftingly beautiful. Really gorgeous. Of course, it isn't today. But I tell you what, hands up in the group. If you didn't fiddle with something on your patio, your balcony or your garden this weekend, I don't think very many hands have gone up. I put my deck chairs, the cloth thing in the wash.

Yeah, that's what I mean. I don't think anybody wouldn't have done something because it was just that weekend. I'll be back on the artificial grass sooner than I thought. I need to go and fiddle with something in the garden. Yes, I even collected my leaves. I had a super, super time. A quick bit of admin because sometimes we, or I, I should be careful, I forget to just do the obvious things. Longtime listener Lynne wants to know the name of the book that you did the interview with, a man called Peter Thornton about settling your affairs at the end of

the end of life or as we head towards the end of life. She couldn't remember the title and it's such a useful book that isn't it. I'm clinging on to the copy I got because I know it's going to come in handy, just logically it's bound to. It's called The Later Years, Lynne. So you can find it, it's out in paperback now isn't it? It's not hardback. It is in paperback. Yeah, it's such a useful thing to have in your locker of reads. So The Later Years by Peter Thornton. Now this one comes in and it's a plea to other people who might be listening to us somewhere in the Europe. Thanking you in anticipation says Sherr...

How would you pronounce that? Bernard. Sherr... Sherralee... Sherralee... Sherralee... Sherralee... I don't know.

Anyway. Bonjour, Jane Oofy. This last week my WiFi crashed and I couldn't listen to Times Radio nor any other English sites. Last September you spoke about the DAB signal with a whiz kid somewhere in Europe. However, the DAB radio I bought couldn't connect to the Times Radio site. With this in mind, can I throw a message in a bottle to anyone who is in the Versailles area, or the same distance anywhere in the Europe, who listens to Times Radio asking what signal they're using without Wi-Fi thanking you in anticipation. Well there we are. This is the admin section of the podcast. It certainly is. But well worth doing and here's another one and

that's when we'll move on after this. Karen says my sister and I were of a certain age did come to see you two at the Barbican but we can't remember now for the life of us the name of that drink shot that Jane claimed would solve bowel problems for everybody. Okay it was M&S and it's the Digest shot. And is it about, I'm sure it's great, but is it about £4.99 for 100 millilitres? You raise a good point there, it's valid. It's three small bottles for, yeah you're right, probably far too much money but I've got to say, as I said, I think at the Barbican, it leaves nothing behind. What do you think is in it?

Because sometimes it's very satisfying to make those things yourself. It's quite sweet for a start. It's I think it's turmeric, turmeric, turmeric, yeah, and ginger and lemon juice. Yes, exactly. All of that. You're right. You're right, darling. I could have made it myself. Was I ever going to. Yes, exactly. All of that. You're right, darling, I could have made it myself. Was I ever going to? No. And sometimes it's just lovely to buy yourself a little treat, isn't it?

Digest shot. If that's your idea of fun. A bit of pampering. You're definitely British. Juliet Bravo, I remember well. This one comes in from Andrew O'Connor. We welcome you, Andrew. I think you're a man. This and many other series were required viewing in our house, but there was another female cop series, The Gentle Touch. Do you remember The Gentle Touch? No, I do. Jill Gascon. Jill Gascon.

And she had very, very curly hair and lovely big glasses. And then the spin-off Cat's Eyes. Again, The Gentle Touch was compulsive viewing. ITV, so grittier than Juliet Bravo on the other side. Also, it was the television room despite the TV being in the corner out of the way. But now it is the living room. OK, where living is done. It's funny because you live in all your rooms really, don't you?

But they have a space, it's just absurd. Health and safety advice now comes in from Sharon and I'm glad she's made this point because we probably should have done. Do not on any account attempt to syringe water into your own ear. I'm just saying that in case anybody who's hard of hearing. Tell you what that's removed my wax. It's tuning in. Leave the procedure, correctly called ear irrigation, to a

professional using calibrated equipment. The pumps used by said professional are set so the water pressure shouldn't be high enough to perforate your eardrum. Squirting water through a syringe into your own ear could very easily do that. Wax is there for a reason to protect the ear canal. Some people make too much and they do need irrigation from time to time but usually the body has a very efficient system to remove the wax all by itself but it's interrupted when people interfere and stick things in to remove the wax themselves and I just want everyone listening to just put their hand up and go a little bit pink if you're in this category. Cotton buds, exactly, me too. Hairpins, oh no, people do it. Birolids, keys and other ingenious tricks are frequently used to remove the wax. In reality they will only serve to provide the health professionals you have to consult with a rip-roaring ear infection or something stuck with

hilarious anecdotes from their day at work. Right, I think we've all been told. Thank you very much. Well, Jo's written in on exactly that topic. Oh, yes, go on. As a child, I had extremely bad ear infections and both my eardrums perforated. In my first year of university, I developed a pain up the side of my throat that eventually developed into what felt like earache and I also went very deaf in that ear and had to sit right at the front of all of my lectures. After a few doctor's appointments where they remarked there is an awful lot of wax in there, I was dutifully dispatched to the nurse for ear syringing which was one of the most painful things I've experienced.

I found out afterwards that ear syringing can be extremely dangerous if you have perforated eardrums and can lead to hearing damage. The syringing didn't stop the initial pain though and after finally being sent to an ENT consultant at the nearby hospital he stuck a massive set of tweezers into my ear and pulled out a screwed up piece of sellotape covered in wax. All I could think of to say was I didn't put it there. Well come on now. Who did? Perhaps one room student living had led to some bed top crafting or present wrapping

and a rogue bit of sellotape travelled up my ear canal one night when I was asleep. We will never know. That's just terrifying isn't it? Absolutely terrifying. There's a 12 part Netflix series on that isn't there? Who is responsible for secreting that little bit of sellotape wasn't it? Yeah. In an ear. Someone did it. To me, and I don't want to put our listener on the spot because we've all done silly things, but slightly smacks of the people who turn up at A&E claiming to have fallen on their

toilet brush. Yes, fallen on the remote control. Oh, I don't know, I just fell on it. Lots of A&E doctors will entertain dinner parties with anecdotes. Oh, they certainly will. I met a really lovely colorectal doctor, a friend of mine's 50th birthday, 40th birthday actually, it was Alice's 40th birthday. And he just, when he said what he did, there was just this delightful kind of two second

pause where, and then he just went, yep, you can ask me. Because that's all anybody ever asks. Oh, what have they got stuck up there? We completely, when we ask that, we ask from a point of just genuine interest and curiosity because it's very other. It's not something we'd ever do but we are absolutely fascinated by those people who they can't change from BBC4 because they've got their remote in a very silly place. Well I mean they can but they've got to do quite a lot of advanced yoga in order to get there. Oh dear, so look Jo, we may not be able to solve that mystery but Jo goes on to ask for our listeners help so are you ready for this one? A final piece and sorry for the long message, don't apologise Jo, to be honest we've had an

awful lot longer. On Christmas Eve I was completely blindsided by my 13-year relationship ending suddenly. We had a house and a dog, had been together since we were teenagers, and as far as I was aware, nothing was wrong. I completely fell apart and have been very much scraped off the floor by my truly wonderful parents and incredible friends. Two months on, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel,

and though I still have some horrible and unavoidable things ahead like selling the house, I know that I will be okay and that time does heal. But it's hard being in your early 30s because it does feel like everybody I know is getting married, having babies and buying houses. I'm daunted by the thought of buying my own place and living alone and have irrational thoughts about my friends forgetting about me after a while. And you go on to say you're both very wise, worldly ladies, so I'd appreciate some reassurance that what I'm going through is crap, but that I will be okay and there's so much joy ahead of me. And if that doesn't include romantic love then that's okay. My

life can be full of family and female friendship. Well Joe, it's kind of you to say that. Both Jane and I would say that we're not really those things but we have lived through some shit. So I would say... How much of it was self-inflicted? Not much actually. We've just been... Yeah, okay, some of it. What was I going to say? First of all, you're so young. You're so young. Time is on your side, Jo. So is on your side. So do not write off the possibility of romantic love or love generally.

And how wonderful actually that mum and dad have come into, have been brilliant. Your friends have rallied around. They're not going to forget you. They're not going to forget you. And of course they're not. Well, true friends certainly won't. And also where I do really feel for her, it's the selling the house. I think that's quite a is quite a big logistical thing to do and it sounds as though she's going to be responsible for doing it. I know there'll probably be another person involved in terms of the money and all the rest of it but it's just a big blow after that amount of time. It's a real chunk of time. Also I really feel for you Jo, if you've been together since you were teenagers, because actually you can't relive your 20s, that's just a

simple fact. You spent them together. It is a hymn. Time travel has been invented, so I can understand, I really really understand how you might feel that you're in a very odd place now because presumably you haven't had the chance to bounce around different relationships, take some knocks along the way, be the person who finishes with other people which is where you learn quite a lot about yourself as well. So I really feel for you on that school but but but but but what I would say I completely agree with my colleague that you're still incredibly young and you will know something about the dark side of life and it just will stand you in good stead. There's just no two ways about it. It's incredibly painful to split up from somebody but you do learn some things about yourself and about the world and about what you like and don't like and you're still in the prime of your life.

Oh, not even anywhere near it. Yep. So, you know, hopefully good times lie ahead. But I understand that you'd feel lonely. It's also, it's just, it's a fact, Jane, isn't it? That in, especially in your early 30s, whenever the phone rings, it tends to be someone saying I'm getting married or I'm having a baby. It just is. So, you know, that's going to feel a bit punchy for a while. It definitely will and it sometimes does feel and I really feel for people in that situation, in Jo's situation now with the socials absolutely bombarding you with all those great times that everybody else is having. It must just be

oh it's it can be incessant can't it? Here we are, here we are again. I'm having a great time, he adores me, I love him. Great, well lucky old you, but I would say to you, Jo, all those people who seem sorted right now, they've either been through shit themselves they haven't told you about, or you know they've been through shit and they've come out the other side,

or they'll go through shit a little bit later when you're in a better place. So, you know, and then you be there for them like they've been there for you, but don't think everyone's having a great time just because it looks like they are. Yeah. That sounds horrible but you know where it's coming from. Yeah so I think both Jane and I are saying you know you will be fine and take it as an opportunity as well to just find the

things that you really like doing and you're not answerable to anybody now so you know maybe that throws up some interesting things as well. Yeah. Yes it's a blissful freedom in lots and lots of ways. Let's just bring in, this is another dilemma, it's not really a dilemma, it's from anonymous, we'll definitely keep you anonymous, but thank you for trusting us with this, from somebody else who, his husband over 12 years ago, very unexpectedly announced that he was leaving our correspondent for somebody else. Now, years ago, very unexpectedly announced that he was leaving our correspondent for somebody else. Now, the listener is now at a point where completely taking her by surprise, but she's met someone and she's going out with someone. She's been seeing him for how long does she say now? I think it's relatively about eight weeks, secretly dating happily

for about eight weeks. But this is what she's asking us. My youngest child is 14. She's got no idea about my new love interest, but in a recent conversation, clearly announced that she'd hate it if I had a boyfriend. And thank God I've never put her through that. I asked her why it would be so awful and she couldn't really explain, but it was so clear that she felt

I should never do that to her. I'm making her sound like a brat, but honestly she isn't. This was said from the heart. Maybe it's because attempts to be one big happy family with her step siblings failed so spectacularly in the past. Maybe it's because she just doesn't remember her father at home. Okay, I suspect this happens to quite a lot of people and do we think that the 14 year old, because they often are a lot more perceptive than we might give them credit for, does suspect that her mum is seeing somebody and that she's feeling a little bit threatened? Would that be it? Or is this just

something she said to make her mum feel nervous about pursuing romance of any kind? I don't know, because it sounds to me like your daughter, because she's a 14 year old, is just feeling a bit vulnerable because that's what 14 year olds feel a lot of the time. But also Jane, it might just be one of those things that 14 year olds just chuck out, you know, without really having thought about the impact of it at all. Quite possibly, yeah. Maybe we're in danger of overthinking why she said it. And also the concept of mum getting a boyfriend I think might be very different to the reality of

who that nice man actually is. So I think if you asked anybody, you know, it would be a bit like if you asked just your best friend when you were younger, you know, would you mind if I went off with somebody and spent my entire time with them and had a lovely time with them. You can feel very hurt by that. Then you know the answer would probably be yes I'd really mind but in reality you know adding somebody into the group might be a blissful thing and they might really enjoy his company. So I wouldn't, I definitely definitely definitely wouldn't lie in any way to your

daughter actually. I think if those lies get found out further down the line they're incredibly difficult to explain so don't carry on seeing somebody without saying that you're seeing somebody and at the same time I just wouldn't finish with the chance of happiness because it might upset your daughter because you just don't know that for a fact. You don't know that it actually will. No, and if this man, you know, if he's proven to be a look, I mean, it's only eight weeks in, so we don't know, but she does say perhaps I should end the relationship and wait until

she's 18 before I try this again. No, don't. No, I don't. I mean, look, I'm no expert here. She might object even more when she's 18. And yes, this is your life. You're entitled to entitled to it to have you're entitled to have your life and very early days with this new man and you've been through a really rough time I didn't read out the whole email but trust me this woman deserves a break

here in more ways than one she does say she's working six days a week to support the children they live entirely with me yeah you know if this bloke appears to be, you know, he's making you feel happier than you were before, don't let your daughter's remark spoil the kind of new happiness you're finding with him, because I just, I definitely wouldn't end the relationship. I just see how it goes.

And she might well change. Change her choose. She might really like him. There's even that. And she might really not like him. And then you might realise there's something you don't like about him too. And then you and your daughter will bond and laugh about that.

So I'd just do it out in the open a bit more. And 14-year-olds can say some extraordinary things. I mean I've been 14 and I probably wasn't the easiest. Well you're still saying them and you're 16. Exactly. So yes, let's go to alpacas. If there's ever a difficult moment bring in an alpaca. Well no, actually before we get to this, this is the animal section of the podcast. It's being very carefully curated and produced today. I like the word curated in terms of our podcast, it's totally unsuitable. I just like it. Rosamunda Irwin, who's a fantastic Sunday Times journalist, wrote a very funny piece about Crofts over the weekend. Now

you're a dog lover, have you been to Crofts? No. Oh you've never been? No I've never been, but I quite often used to watch it. I mean it's a daytime television opportunity and sometimes I've watched the highlights in the evening. But no I've never been. I don't really, I mean I really really really love my kids. I don't love everybody else's kids. I absolutely adore my pets. I don't necessarily like other people's pets.

I tell you what would be fantastic if they had like child of the year. Child Crofts. don't necessarily like other people's pets. I tell you what would be fantastic if they had like child of the year. Child crafts. You can take your wrangle your toddlers down to the NEC, get them to jump over things. Actually that's golden, why hasn't someone done that? But they do have that in America don't they? Oh do they? Well they have the terrible child beauty patch. Oh I didn't really mean that, I meant a kind of toddler show. Just what your toddler can do. I didn't really mean that. I meant a kind of toddler show. Just what your toddler can do. Show your toddlers. Anyway, watch them toddling and then there can be a toddling assault course.

It'd be great. It's a very funny word, toddler. But Rosamund says when she arrived at Birmingham's National Exhibition Centre, she was greeted by the words anal gland in an advert for scooch pet treats, the treat that supports healthy bowel function. Are you familiar with the product? No, because none of our pets have needed. But I do know people who've massaged anal glands. Okay, thank you, Fee. Croft was also selling dog conditioner. Guess how much the dog conditioner was? Oh, 16.99. 58 quid. Oh, of course. Muggins.

58 quid. That was from We've Seen You Coming. Dog. Perhaps the pinnacle of canine indulgence is adored pet's cuisine, she writes, which sells treats including birthday cakes made from steak or chicken, and wagyu beef and sweet potato balls the icing is made from chicken but it's made to look like buttercream all available for the pampered pooches of Great Britain at Croft. So we are a nation of dog lovers and we've definitely taken it too far but in these dark times how fantastic Jane how absolutely, Jane.

How absolutely bloody fantastic. Look, I'm completely with you. I'm a great fan of the subcultures that do absolutely no harm to anyone else. Oh, and just bring joy. Just, I don't care what you're into. Cosplay, train spotting, dogs. Good luck to you.

Yeah. Steampunk, I'm all for it. Crafting, wrestling, whatever. We did do some dog sitting. My daughter was doing it actually this weekend for an incredibly clever dog who can do puzzles. Dog puzzles. So you know you pull out different bits and then eventually he knows how to get to the treat. So it's like you know those tile things that you can do. So you have to get all the words in order. It's just like that for dogs and he could do it. I mean, Nancy was just standing there,

utter, utter bewilderment. But, in breast? What is going on here? Can she not do puzzles? No, she can't do puzzles at all. No, but then in fairness, you know when you, those GCHQ puzzles, they release at Christmas?

Just... what? And officially neither of us are thick. Well, but I just don't have that kind of... I do not have that kind of brain. I think maybe this is where the intelligence services have been going wrong, because they've never been focusing too much on exactly that kind of clever, clever clogs. What was the name of the clever dog? And what you need is a toffle. And what you need is a, you know, maybe the world of spies needs more Nancy's. A dog, whenever she farts, she smells it, looks around and goes, who was that? So love, it was you.

We heard it. We can practically see it. It was you, love. Well, we've both got contacts very high up in the security force. It won't be long before Nancy is recruited just for her farting power, if not for anything else. Right, before we get to the guest who is the brilliant... Jodie Whittaker. The brilliant Jodie Whittaker. Alpaca chat very briefly. I'm late to the alpaca party, says Angela. Well, you are a bit, but whatever. There's no such thing as being late really to a subject on this podcast.

Why do people think these animals are so adorable? She writes. Not me. I'm well retired now. But in my teaching days we planned a visit to a park where we came across a field full of alpacas. The children started cooing over them thrilled with their funny faces. What could go wrong? Well, as we looked at a particularly endearing member of the group, it promptly threw back its head and spat in the face of the nearest child. And if you think human spit is disgusting, think grassy green spit mixed with acidic stomach contents. Alpacas, no thank you! Thank you for helping me sleep on my recent overnight flight

from Heathrow to Cape Town. A gin and tonic and red wine weren't doing it and seven hours into the flight I was still awake. Still there you were sandwiched between boob stop and keeping up appearances. Bliss!" says Angela who describes herself as 70 next year. Well Angela I'm not listening to you dissing the alpacas I'm putting little pieces of sellotape in my ears. And that concludes our business. But we, just to reassure people, we are available on some rather exclusive British Airways fights. Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do don't and the G&T and the red wine haven't quite made it. Trust us to send you a send you fast asleep. With the Fizz loyalty program you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan. You know for texting

and stuff and if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan you're not with Fizz. Switch today conditions apply details at fizz.ca Fizz. Switch today. Conditions apply. Details at fizz.ca. In the 1980s an environmental scandal was taking place in the town of Corby in North amptonshire. The closure of the steelworks there meant a massive demolition process began. But a failure to adhere to proper health and safety regulations during that demolition had catastrophic consequences for the people of Corby, particularly pregnant mothers. They inhaled toxic dust and debris causing birth defects in their babies. Dozens of children were affected, but a new dramatisation

on Netflix called Toxic Town focuses on just three families and uses some artistic licence along the way. But the message remains stark and moving. Corruption, laziness and the power of some within the local council cost some of Corby's youngest citizens dearly. It was through the fierce determination of the mothers whose babies had been affected that Corby Council was held to account in court and more than £14 million was awarded to the affected families in 2009. The actor Jodie Whittaker plays Susan McIntyre, a mum whose son had been born with a deformed right hand.

And that is where our chat started. So I play Susan McIntyre, whose son Connor was born with a limb difference. And I think the powerful thing about the storytelling of Toxic Town is that rather than center on the, you know, the heart of the story isn't the politics or the, you know, the kind of the court case surrounding it, it is very much the women are the beating heart of this

and the real life mothers and families. And so I think that that's what makes it such an incredible story. Obviously, seeing the council, seeing, you know, ultimately the courtroom scenes, all of that, that built around the actual effects that this horrific event has had on the people it affected, the families, the children. And Susan is a vital part in this story and she's an incredible woman and had a huge fight ahead of her as long alongside the other mothers. And I think that something that's powerful

about Toxic Town is it can shine a light onto it and give kind of life to scenes that within a documentary setting, you wouldn't get the opportunity to see, is you know the quieter moments and the vulnerable moments of and the storytelling within the privacy of this very public event. So you say very public event and I agree with everything that you've said actually I think the angle of motherhood etc is absolutely brilliant in the series but yeah I mean the extraordinary thing about this scandal when you watch it you

think why haven't we talked about this more all the way through I know that the Sunday Times did an original expose an investigation in 1999 but it took 11 years for the families to get compensation. I mean it is a slightly too hidden story, it just shouldn't have been should it? No and I think it's difficult because we reference our culture today so breaking news now doesn't necessarily mean the front page of a paper, it can mean a message on social media. So I think it's even harder for us to, even us guys that remember it before, it's harder for us to grasp a time when these moments don't snowball and that that information is readily

available to anyone who wants to read. But I think it's also very telling of who it affected and it affects a working-class town and it affects, majoritvely, the mothers and children of that working class town. And I think that that says a lot about the, you know, what investment there is in highlighting the wrongs of those communities. And I think I was totally mortified, I'd never heard of it. But then actually, I've realised I'm one of thousands of people that

hadn't. And like you said, once you've watched it, it's absolutely gobsmacking. Yeah. You went to meet Susan McIntyre. How does that then affect you when you're playing a part? affect you when you're playing a part? I met her during, we all as the mothers, myself and Amy Lou and Claudia, who we were playing three real life mothers. Carla was in there who played Patti but her character is based on some fictional, whereas we are obviously playing three women who we have since met. And our meeting of them came towards the ending of filming on a day where we were all in, where they came to set. It was incredibly emotional, I think, for everybody.

In any job, you take it really seriously and you wanna do the best work you can, but when you are representing somebody and their life, and the, not pressure, you know, it's first world problems, isn't it, that kind of pressure, but I just mean the kind of, the sense of anxiety that they will be happy with what you're doing is huge. And it was a very wonderful interaction. They'd had so much,

you know, they'd contributed so much with Jack and the producers for getting this story made in the first place. So for us then at this, you know, filming's always weirdly like one of the last hurdles to overcome because development takes so long but then with this it just felt magical to be us three having lived these characters for over many months and then being able to be side by side with the people we were playing. And is it quite a deliberate thing Jodie not to have met Susan before you started filming? I think well I think it was within for us personally, I think, you know, it was a kind of collaborative decision between all of us with the production. We were very much going

straight into filming. And it, you know, for me personally, I felt that, you know, this was how it had been designed for us to film and to meet them during filming. And for me, the wonderful thing is when you are playing someone real, if they're incredibly well known, you have references in that sense, if they're less so, what you do have with Toxic Town is a documentary and public information that you can use, but the most important thing I did feel was I'm not, I wasn't entering into this to get and to do an impression of somebody. And I felt that with Jack's writing, what it needed as well was for us as actors to bring ourselves to these parts, because we aren't necessarily playing people that we, you know, you'd say well you didn't move your hand like that or you, you, you're like the slight, you know, your hairstyle is different or something like that. In that sense it wasn't a carbon copy

of a performance, it was to be the essence of Susan which having meta is fundamentally in Jack's writing so I think the lucky thing is when you work with a writer like Jack Thorne, the detail and the level of work is there. And yeah, and I think that the the moment they wanted us all to meet was done so beautifully on set that, you know, it felt like the right time. Susan McIntire is Scottish, she'd moved from Scotland to Corby and you've had to move your accent too and actually I mean all hail to you the whole series opens with you doing karaoke in a Scottish accent and I did think okay right this is a

different Jodie to what I've seen before so all hail to you for doing that. Were you slightly nervous about that? Yeah I think that was the like you know you wrote me and. Were you slightly nervous about that? Yeah, I think that was the, like, you know, you wrote me and seeing that you're reading in a script and it says, you know, like Glaswegian Corby accent. Yeah, what is that? I don't know if there's that many reference points to that, I'm going to find. But, and we, I worked really like hand in hand with a fantastic dialect coach who was so, I was really lucky

because within the start of production to my first day, I think I had about two weeks to like work on it lonely in a room with someone. And then our first week of filming was the court scenes. So you literally go from sitting in a room hoping you can do it one-on-one with someone who's guiding you through it to standing in the stand and all of your peers, you know, sat in front of you. But the main thing for me was, you know, in itself, it's a kind of unusual accent because it's someone who's lived in this other town since childhood, but the main thing is,

is it just had to be about truth rather than making sure every single sound was, you know, I wanted to be able to do the scenes without thinking about it. So I stayed in the accent the entire time, probably terribly in my lunch break, sounding like I'd gone around the world in 80 time, probably terribly in my lunch break, sounding like I'd gone around the world in 80 days every time I opened my mouth. But I couldn't

dance between my own accent and that because it just required so much of my brain to be able to go, right, I don't want to think about it now because I'm doing a scene. That should be the last thing I'm thinking of. But so yes, you have to do quite a bit of work beforehand. Wow. We don't have you for very much longer, Jodie, so I've got to ask you the doctor question once a doctor, always a doctor. There was an article I read a couple of weeks ago that seemed to be suggesting that doctor who was just having a bit of a kind of fallow patch at the moment. Do you think that that's fair? Do you think that's true? Can it come back kind of bigger and brighter than ever? They say, for now, I think they said that about me. They said that about everything. Every time there's a

Doctor Who, I think there's some comment. Because I was asked all this during my season. So it must be the go-to thing of whether, you know, for the show. Is it as good as it used to be? I mean, there are things that, because I don't necessarily read anything to do there now, but I am watching and I'm a huge fan of shooty and there is nothing more loyal and more beautiful than the Whovian community. So I don't think necessarily it's fandoms reducing in any way. I think... So on a grown-up basis of statistics, I've no idea, I'm completely unqualified.

Yeah. But I'm always going to be a massive Whovian. Yeah, but you raise a good point. What is it about that show that means people just need to have an opinion about it, need to constantly kind of poke it? Because you're right, it's got this incredible fandom around it, which you would have thought actually made it a bit impervious to that type of stuff. Yeah, but I mean, you know, I think it has...

Every time the show, you know, new seasons, it's not even just based on regeneration. Every time it goes into a, like a new season from, you know, my three seasons, every time we went into a new one, you know, you have to, there's so much television that it needs to still be relevant and to contribute to this wealth of access to shows that we have now. But I feel like it will always do that because it's one of the original and one of the greatest long-running series of all time. But maybe, you know, in that, you have to be able to answer certain questions about its relevance when it comes out. But to me, I think it answers its own question in every episode, because it's brilliant and it's like nothing else you'll ever get to, A, be a part of or get to see.

And what's next for you, Jodie? I am currently filming a six-part drama created by and starring Saran Jones, and it is about two friends who have had an instraintment over the last ten years and coming back together. And I'm always terrible at saying what things are about, because I'm never quite sure what the spoilers are or not. But it's a six-part ITV drama called Frauds.

And I'm super excited, and I'm having an absolutely amazing time. Right, gosh, what's not to like about that? Absolutely brilliant. Well, Saran Jones, Jodie Whitaker. Yeah, I'd watch it. Yeah, we're there. We're absolutely there. Toxic Town is what we were talking about with Jodie.

It's available on the Netflix at the moment. Mots in Gloucestershire has already watched it. I had time to binge watch it this weekend. What a luxury. And can you pass on that the quality of the script, acting and storyline was superb? Well worth a watch. Congratulations to Jodie,

who masters the emotional aspect of the role and battles stereotyping of women at the time. Awesome, with a lovely little emoji. Brian in Glasgow though doesn't particularly like the accent. Apologies. Did you notice the accent? Jodie's Glaswegian accent was terrible. Great show though. Brian, you would know because you're from Glasgow. Well, I don't know which part of Glasgow Jodie was aiming for, but as she said in that interview, it was quite an arse to open the whole show with karaoke in a Glaswegian accent, so she obviously gave it a best shot, but Brian, fair dinkum. If it didn't really tickle your Glaswegian fancy, I'm sure that Jodie would take that on the chin. I thought it was a

great show though, and something that we should just all have known a bit more about actually. I absolutely agree with you there. A neglected scandal that has now been brought into the light thanks to that Netflix series. Yeah and it's very good and it's got Rory Kanier in it too and I love seeing him appear in things and he does authentic, fed-up man incredibly well. So it's a really brilliant dramatisation and a story that we just all need to have known more about, actually. So all hail to Jodie. Yeah. And we haven't really got to the the world is going to Helen Hancart section of the podcast today because look, sometimes we just can't, I know. Let's just try and be calm and channel that person in a bikini on the back of a moped in a tropical storm.

Let's do that. Let's just think about that. With a beer waiting and a spicy noodle dish also likely to be on the menu. Well, Eve's brought us some dried mango, so we will still be chewing that this time tomorrow. And a little bit of corn. You weren't supposed to bring that,

so I wasn't going to mention it. Right. Over and out. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2-4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.

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