Off Air... with Jane and Fi - A bustling lesbian bonobo community (with Susie Wolff)

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

Fi’s still manning the podcast solo, with a bit of help from Eve and your wonderful emails along the way. There’s chat of double reeds, doing the splits during lockdown, homosexual animals, and Paul Mescal’s silver chain. Plus, Managing Director of F1 Academy Susie Wolff reflects on her career and discusses her memoir 'Driven'. You can listen to our 'I've got the house to myself' playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2MkG0A4kkX74TJuVKUPAuJIf you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producers: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Eve tells me I need to start today's podcast with my favourite Christmas Carol. Oh, it comes from Hetty's Advent calendar. Well, it'd be in the bleak midwinter, wouldn't it? Frosty when made moan. Give us a tinkle. Stood hard as iron, water like a stone. Very nice. I am actually a baritoo.

Don't I know it now? Well, you do not want to hear my tart there old angels sing Descant. That just goes so reedy, very, very, very, very needy, reedy. You've lost me. Really? Yeah. You don't know your carols? I don't know what reedy means.

Oh, you know, when people sing it's very peem-he-he-he-he-ha. And the high you go, the more... I thought it was an oboe phrase. No, no, it comes from that. Well spotted. We're back with the double reeds. There was such a lovely couple who came along to see our now secret Fringe by the Sea event

who brought me a new oboe read in case I wanted to get the oboe out and do some mournful oboeing over Christmas. So thank you to those people on Terry so I can't immediately recall your name. But I have kept the read. It's sitting, looking at me ominously on my desk. probably in the same way that Eva's got a leotard and some leg warmers on her desk.

An ominous leotardard to lure her back into the days of the dance troupe. I didn't think that we actually did enough questions about the dancing. I think we did. I'll be the judge of that, just one more if I may. I may editor Alvagon. So when you say that for a while you did think that you might do dancing, So where would you have ended up? Would you have been more diversity troupe or more Legs & Co?

Do you even know who Legs & Co are? I do not. No, you're kidding me. You exist in the world of dance and you don't know one of the seminal, seminal, wafting. I did exist in the world of dance. I no longer do. And if Jane was there right now, I would quietly Google whilst you do chat, chat it amongst yourself.

So Legs and Co is a fantastic dance troupe. And I think in my generation, they were... Oh, my God, I'd love to have a bit of a part of Legs and Co. So they always did, on Top of the Pops, they did the song where Top of the Pops producers couldn't book the artist. So Legs and Co. would come along, and they were known for some pretty suggestive moves. They've got some legs. Oh, they really do.

They've got legs. And Ken. So would you have done that kind of dancing? Well, I very much would have liked to it. They look very glamorous. you would have ended up going into a diversity type thing no not really I don't think I was really destined for any of it

so effectively you were just you were basically just doing a Saturday Zumba class in your mind you thought yeah I could turn this into Korea it wasn't quite so organised but no I did quite a few classes across the week so maybe I was just keeping all my options open yeah for sure for sure I just, I would very much like to, at some stage, before I leave this mortal coil,

or simply don't work at Times Radio anymore, which ever come sooner, I would like to get, I would like to see you dance. Hannah's actually blaming me, you tried to do the splits over the weekend. She's got to bruise the size of an onion on her knee. Oh, that's not good, you know. Was it during your time on the podcast or was it in our previous existence? I think it must have been previous existence during the pandemic. Um, I was going to embark on those quite a craze.

on YouTube to do the splits in 30 days. Oh, yeah. So every day you'd split yourself a little bit more. And a couple of very, very kind listeners wrote it and said, don't. You know, especially if you've had slightly complicated birth. And one email has never left me from a very, very kind woman who said that she tried the same thing

because she was doing it as well with her daughter. And she said that one day she heard something inside her go. And she stopped doing it. So I had a very lucky escape. And that's where the offer community really, you know, does the business. I don't think there's another podcast where people would be that helpful about their personal experiences. Those videos should have come with a little warning label. Oh, good God, yes.

Yeah, no, definitely. Because, yeah, no, there are bits and pieces that do not need any more stretching inside my world. I'm a tiny bit grateful that that was before my time. Yes, sorry. But I've filled you in now. Plenty more where that comes from. A night in London without Jane and Fee comes in courtesy from Amanda and Fiona.

They are sisters and they went to the Prince Edward thing me, Jiggy, what's it, just to have a look at it, knowing that we were cancelled on the 7th of December and they had a lovely time. We stayed in a cute little hotel just off Russell Square, went to Giotos for dinner, and then to a niche movie at the Picture House cinema. Oh my goodness.

On the way there we swung by the Prince Edward and reminisced about what might have been the following day we enjoyed a morning at Moco Museum which was the highlight of the trip before heading back to the Peak District thinking of all of you especially Jane, love and seasons greetings to you and the team well look Amanda and Fiona

you had a lovely lovely 24 hours in London I'm so glad that you still took the opportunity to go you weren't weighed down by having to attend the Prince Edward's playhouse at 7.30, so I'm glad you had a lovely evening. And do you know what, those little hotels just off Russell Square, I think they are some of the best in London. They are some of the most reasonable given where they are. And definitely by comparison to the big chain hotels, which I think some of the London hotels, you know, the four-star ones at this time of year,

they're 300, 400, 500, 500, 500 quid a night, which is bonkers. And the ones off Russell Square, because they tend to be family run or independently run. Their prices are much lower and it's such a lovely part of town to be and it is weirdly quiet given how close it is to London's fashionable West End.

Now I was in London's fashionable West End last night Eve because I went to see a preview of Hamnet. Of course. Yeah, which is the movie version of the amazing novel by the woman who we know and love Maggie O'Farrell.

So it's two hours It is very immersive It is directed by the director Who Did Nomadland Which is one of my favourite films of all time Chloe Jow I'm going to say that wrong Probably that surname

I do apologise Did you get an eye on the Paul Mascale Well I did I was in the same room as Paul Mascar I have to say I'm just going to put my hands up to this I didn't stay for the Q&A which was just unbelievable.

So Olivia Coleman came on at the beginning. Olivia Coleman. Oh my gosh. She came on at the start and she just said, welcome everybody. She looks so, so good. She's got her hair really, really short at the moment, but it's kind of curly, so it's just so pretty.

And she was wearing some barrel jeans and some stilettos and a kind of man's jacket. I thought, oh my God, that's just it. It's good for a Monday. Oh, I mean, just good for a Monday, just good for any event. just look the dogs bollocks and she did her usual stick

which is kind of I've forgotten my glasses that's a thing and everybody in the room just immediately loves her and she did the list of people who were doing the Q&A and I mean it was like the kind of cast of the next Oscars it was just extraordinary but I couldn't stay

because the film's very moving and it is about the death of one of William Shakespeare's children and they don't really spare the horses in terms of emotion and I just had to get home to my kids at the end of it. I just thought I just, I've never

seen a film that has made me want to go home to my children more. So I just went home to my kids. And also being in the West End on a Monday night. Too much. I'm sure Paul wouldn't mind. I don't think Paul would have noticed. But there were quite... I'm sure he would have noticed. There were a lot of ladies

in the ladies as I left who were sprucing themselves up to go back in the Q&A. There were some spritzing going on there was a bear boof him and he's remarkable in the film was it good the film man so the film is amazing

it's a really weird combination of incredible nature shots like real kind of nature porn just forests rivers mugwort

and then very very emotional scenes and then quite a lot of actual Shakespeare at the end. So quite a lot of the performance of Hamlet on stage at the globe. So it's really mesmerizing. I'm so sorry. Is that one of those children?

It is. It's one of my minions. So I would recommend it, but it's not for the faint-hearted. It comes out in the middle of January, and I think I'm glad about that, so it definitely wouldn't be my Christmas movie choice. Maggie O'Farrell is going to come on the programme, isn't she, on the podcast? So when will that go out?

That will go out around the sixth. Okay, yeah, sometime then. Yep. But I'm sure, you know, it's always lovely to talk to Maggie O'Fa. And it was such a brilliant conceit for the book because it really isn't about William Shakespeare. It's about Anne, his wife, and it's about grief and the place that you have to go to

in order to then be able to get on with your life. I haven't actually read it yet. It's a beautiful book. And I really would like, because I loved the marriage portrait. So I do really enjoy her writing. and I feel like I should have read it. Will I squeeze it in before the film? Not sure.

I think it's an either-or now. Yeah, because also I think the film is quite different to the book. Probably just go to the film there. Yeah, it's got more Billy Shakespeare in it. More Paul Muskell. I wonder why. I'll be going to the film. He's just, he had a chain, didn't he, in normal people,

and the chain ended up having its own Instagram account, the heavy silver chain that he wore and in Hamnet he's sporting a tiny little silver hoop earing that I suspect. A nod to the chain It was around that time he was seen crossing roads carrying M&S gin and tonic cans

Was he? Yeah it was during summer and the chain was there and the M&S tins were there and people were lapping it up Yes yeah well I think our own colleague Jane Garvey had quite a poor mescal thing In fact do you what I think that's

Very very short shorts That Christmas. They bought out, stop it. They bought out a special Paul Mescal magazine, didn't they? And I remember giving it to Jane, either her birthday or Christmas. She's probably still got it. I'm sure it's still in the packet. I'm sure she hasn't read a single line from it.

Just stares at it. Can we just say that we're all thinking of Jane a lot? And she's going to stay up in Crosby with her family. And so she won't be reappearing on the podcast this side of Christmas. but we do hope to all be reunited in January. And I think because we are a podcast of a certain vintage, mostly listened to by people of a certain vintage and definitely listened to by people who've got heart,

I'm sure you all completely understand that we're trying to keep the ball rolling at this end, but without it being too much of a song and a dance, because also I don't think it's a particularly nice thing if you're going through a very hard time in your personal life to think that your job has kind of taken off without you. So Eve and I very much, we're manning it, aren't we? We're just manning it, but kind of quietly and shyly.

Yes, yeah, we're trying not to go to kind of bananas with everything. You can be asked before Christmas anyway. Well, I was going to say, I mean, we're doing the job of four people at the moment anyway because obviously we do the afternoon show and we've got fantastic co-presenters, haven't we? We've had Rosie Wright and Ryanica, but it's, does mean that we're all a little bit up in the air at the moment. So we appreciate your kindness and the fact that you do understand. And Hillary, I hope that solves your quandary because you are listening from British Columbia in Canada and you're a little bit concerned

about the fact that there hasn't been a podcast on Mondays and that we are a little bit of a different shape to what we have been so far. So I hope that, you know, that all makes sense. Just keep listening. Just keep it on the download and it'll all get back to something. approaching normality soon. Now, Thanksgiving in America. Catching up on my Jane and Fee, I'm listening to one where you're discussing Thanksgiving, and this one comes in from Susan.

As a native New Englander, please let me assure you that not everybody, and I believe hardly anyone in New England, has marshmallows in any form on the table alongside the turkey, gravy, stuffing, potatoes, carrots, butternut, or acon squash. Aicorn squash. I've got a sicky pub.

And cranberry sauce. I've heard of a squash-type pie dessert that has a marshmallow topping that's had heat applied as I watch the Great British Baking Show I imagine similar to meringue I feel I need to stand up for the honour of New England

Well you have done Susan But we had quite a few emails And in fact I'll dig out one from I think a nice guy called Peter Who was saying that I don't know Was that the other sentence Yeah

Let's leave it there I just have a nice guy called Peter I'll just think it was there I'll do it tomorrow The playlist is an absolute treat This is from Beth Denny Who says how about a great track

By one of our wonderful Aussie icons Jimmy Barnes Flame Trees is an absolute cracker The playlist has now closed But there'll be another one that opens up in January With another specific title And I'm sure we'll be able to squeeze that in And can Eve and I both say that what happened in Bondi Beach at the weekend is just so awful,

so absolutely horrendously awful. And I know that we have loads and loads of listeners in Australia. And in fact, Beth from Sydney, proudly born and bred in Yorkshire, that's you, isn't it? And we'd just like to send you all our very best wishes. And that healing process is, God, that's just going to take a very, very long time. if ever, but what an astoundingly evil thing to have happened. Our thoughts are with you. You know, lots of people go thoughts and prayers and stuff

as if it's a kind of throwaway thing, but I really, I don't know how you take on board when something like that has happened, just how much your world changes, and it does for everybody. I'm going to do a massive, massive gear change, and actually gear change, our guest today. Oh, very nice.

Thank you, Eve. Thank you. a lot. Who is our guest? It is Susie Wolfe, the head of F1 Academy and former race car driver. She is very impressive indeed. She's also tiny. And I think I do mention it a couple of times in the interview. It's an interview that we did last week. So to have the power to race those cars when they're doing whatever crazy speed, I think she said she'd been 310 kilometres an hour. She was describing the G-force that actually, because she is so petite, could just to cracked her neck. I got a bit lost in the physics of it all,

but it is very impressive. Very impressive. I really liked her. I thought she was terrific. She's got a very interesting accent because she's from Scotland, but she's married an Austrian, and I've never heard that kind of Scottish lilt

accompanied by the Austrian tone. And also very softly spoken for a woman who enjoys throwing herself down a road at 300... Yeah, there are lots of anomalies there, aren't there? No, very much. And just, you know, incredibly, just had a very lovely energy, very nice presence. A calming presence. Very, very calming.

But you don't want to be a bit of a kind of messy, chaotic, flippity gibbet if you're in charge of that amount of kit, do you? I thought you're all quite precise. Very level-headed. Yeah, yeah. I bet all of those men who are in F1, I've got very, very tidy sheds, you know, with all of their nuts and bolts, all in little boxes and stuff like that. I thought they were all a bit crazy,

they like to pop the champagne, but that's just in the moment. It is in the moment. I think they're quite OCD and other things, actually, Eve. This one comes in its entitled Voice Over Homosexual Animals. Come with us on our journey. This comes from Dea, who's joining us from Oregon. Dear Fee, I've listened since your days on the pizza, so I know your voice in a heartbeat.

I like to start my day drinking coffee and watching a little comedy on YouTube. Imagine my surprise when I started. watching episode one, series one of Celebrity Gogglebox and ten minutes in, recognised your very best documentary voice explaining homosexual animal behaviour as gorillas, turtles and ladybugs mounted each other. The programme wanted to get to the bottom of what's happening.

So a female dog on heat was brought round to visit Franco and Norman, a couple of Italian greyhounds. I remember this well. Franco didn't want the lady dog messing with his man and actually sat with one of his paws up and limp at the wrist. What a wake up this morning. Dia says, I've been meaning to write and tell you how you broadened my horizons. Well, I've really done that now, haven't I? And I really appreciate it.

Your well-spoken affair, when you talk about important aspects, you can take the girl out of the BBC, etc., etc. Well, it wasn't, you know what, there was a Channel 4 documentary, and it was about how homosexuality has been proven to exist in the animal kingdom. And actually, it was a phenomenally important documentary and discovery, because for all of the people who are homophobic and prejudiced and say, you know, the Bible says, you know, gay people are wrong and you can stone them to death or, you know, whatever it is that the Bible says, and in other religions too, actually, if you can just say it's everywhere, homosexuality is everywhere, it's in the animal kingdom, it's in the mammal kingdom, so don't have this prejudice, that's being created by society and by other things that, you know, culture, has demanded or religion has demanded. So it was a fantastic documentary to do,

but it did take quite a long time because there were just, oh my goodness. So there were just some moments of coerpsing that were just very, very difficult to get through. I do remember the lesbian bonobos, I know. Now you've said it's really important, I feel bad. No, because we were laughing long, and there was a, okay, so there's no way to get through

the rest of these sentences. without euphemism. There was a lot of tongue-in-cheek action going on. Control yourself, Eve, in the voice-over script. It's just worth digging it out because it is so funny. They did these proper scientific experiments

with Franco and Norman. And they were just very, very happy with each other. They didn't want a lady greyhound. They just weren't interested. Good for them. Yeah, very good for them. And the bonobos, I think I'm right and saying, and I'm sorry if I've got this wrong.

Somebody, you know, someone who'll point it out if I do. Sorry about my phone. It's very busy to say. But the female bonobos, they very much enjoy pleasuring themselves. So there's quite a lot of activity going on within the Lady Bonobo community where they, you know, they just basically have a great big communal fandango. Is that straight off the script? Right.

Well, I'll seek that out Seek that out in the name of education sometime over the Christmas season and if you can't find it anymore then you can find it on season one episode one of Celebrity Gogglebox So I think we probably should get to the guest

I'm going to save your fantastic thoughts about the French B and B for tomorrow because lots of you had very much enjoyed joining that series watching it from the beginning it is now over i completely agree the right people won and i cannot wait for that to be recommissioned but we'll go into that in depth tomorrow and i'd just like to apologize to carla who i know is one of our regular listeners and i wish you well for christmas carla it's always nice to know you're on board but she's very annoyed with me because i've mispronounced woolovers she says it is wool lovers that's

the whole point of the portmanteau of words. No, I prefer woolovers. Yes, I always thought it was woolovers for pullovers, but she says it's wool lovers. And that must be very difficult if you hear somebody getting that type of thing wrong. Yeah, I'm a bit lost. And I love the fact that we are amongst our own demographic colour where we can have a row about this.

and for years I worked with a man who couldn't pronounce Pringle properly How did he say it? Pringley That is annoying Yeah which is really really annoying Yep Surely he was putting that on

No I don't think he was I genuinely Is it not like kind of your mum says Primani Primarset when she came to Primark Oh okay Yes And Prater Mange

Yes Yep is a well-known one too But actually the Pringley bloke We don't No, he ended up being one of the very few people to ever be fired by the BBC. You can look him up if you want. Right, shall we get straight to the guest?

Here comes. Susie Wolfe. Susie Wolfe is part of Formula One royalty. She is a groundbreaker and a pace setter, the first woman to drive Formula One. Her practice session in 2014 was not to turn into a full place on the track, though. That still alludes a female driver, but it is something

that the F1 Academy, a female racing series set up and run by Wolf, aims to sort out. And Susie is certain that we will see a woman on the podium in the next decade. Now Susie herself hails from the west coast of Scotland, from a family that encouraged her to ride

bikes and then drive. A path she only veered from the once when she got a place at Edinburgh University to read international business. She only lasted a couple of weeks because she simply missed being on a track. She went on to race in the DTM, that's the German Masters, became a Williams development driver, and came within reach of a Grand Prix in 2015 when a driver, Bottas, was injured, but she was passed over in favour of a male driver, and it led to her decision

to retire. She's married to Toto Wolf, the team principal at Mercedes. They've got a son. They are Austrian. You can hear the Austrian influence in her Argyll and Butte tones these days. A memoir is called Driven. And she starts the book with her experience of driving F1 for the first time. So I asked Susie to take us to that point. It was such an important day because it was a dream that I'd hung on to since I was a 13-year-old girl. And I really wanted to bring that moment alive in the book to bring people into a Formula One car, to understand what goes on behind the scenes.

Because even getting a Formula One car out of the pit garage with all of the technology, electronics is quite a feat. And then getting out on track, you've done days in a simulator. You're well prepared, but nothing is like the speed that you feel out on track. And the difficulty with the Formula One cars is the downforce. With down force, the faster you go, the more grip you have. So it's really counterintuitive. But I had been put through my paces by Williams. I knew exactly what I had to achieve on that day. And as much as it was exhilarating in one sense, since, finally driving an F1 car, realizing just what it feels like to go at that speed, it was also a moment where I was just hyper-focused.

I knew every detail I'd done it so many times in my head that it somehow felt familiar. Can you put into context what an extraordinary thing it was for a woman to be doing that? Well, motorsport is one of the few sports in the world that isn't segregated, but participation of female drivers has never got. above 5% we really are a minority and of course F1 is a pinnacle of the sport so we've never really seen since the 1980s any

women in Formula One and I'd never set out on a quest to be a woman that made it to F1 I was simply a young girl that was hugely competitive, loved speed, loved the adrenaline and luckily had the family background around me which allowed me to follow the path

of racing and then having a dream of making it to F1 but of course when I got in the F1 car and it was only ever supposed to be 25 laps there was so much attention from the media that a woman was back in an F1 car

would I be physically fit enough to drive a modern day F1 car would I be quick and it was that actual publicity and all of that let's say noise around my gender which led to me being given a space in the team because the team

the test was in November the team already had their line up of drivers but the CEO of Williams at the time created a role which is now commonplace in F1 for me called a development driver and suddenly I had my foot in the door which was incredible at the time. What would prevent women from performing

to the same level of men if there wasn't sexism and prejudice around? Is there something about a woman's body, a woman's stature, the way a car is built that is adding to this problem of getting to equality on the track? Well, women have 30% less muscle than men and I'm not naive enough to think

that that can be overcome with sheer grit but in a racing car particularly in a Formula One car it doesn't come down to pure muscle and if you look at our current world newly crowned world champion Landonoris he's not a big huge mussely man so actually being smaller and lighter

is advantageous. So I don't believe that there's any reason a woman can't compete in Formula One. I drove an F1 car. I did a race distance at Barcelona.

I know it's possible. I think what we need to break down is the preconceptions of the sport. It's still seen as quite male-dominated, quite macho, but it's changing.

And the global F1 fan base is now 42% female, the fastest-growing fan demographic, the 18 to 24 year old female, how lucky we are. And now we have F1 Academy, which I run for F1. It's an all-female race series to help identify young female talent and help them find their way upwards in the

sport. And there's never been so much opportunity for women in the sport now. And I do think there's still a lot to be done, but I do think the sport has transformed from when I was racing. We will come back and talk more about all of those things, but I also want you to tell us a little bit more about your childhood because your mum had a saying, didn't she? Full throttle, don't stop. Which I think is, I mean, on the one hand, how blooming fantastic.

But on the other hand, it's quite, it's counterintuitive to the way an awful lot of people parent, isn't it, Susie? I grew up on the West Coast of Scotland and when I was writing driven, now as a mother, so much appreciation for my childhood and how my parents brought me up

because they instilled in me that belief and I was a little girl with such big dreams and I look back now and think where did all that self-belief come from? Where did those big dreams? But they instilled that in me. They gave me the opportunities. They always led me to believe

anything my brother could achieve, I could achieve. There was no differentiation between son and daughter and my mom recognized my character. I always had to be kept busy. I wasn't someone that could, you know, lays around. And so she kept me busy, and it really was full throttle all the way. And wheels are in your family, aren't they?

Yes, the history is more on two wheels. But thankfully my dad said who runs a motorbike shop together with my mum, two wheels was too dangerous for his little girls. So he put me in a go-cart instead of a motorbike, and that really set me off on the path. Tell me a little bit more about what changes when you are a mother yourself because, you know, the motorsport world has often been dominated by tragedy. It's such a dangerous thing that you're going into.

I understand that there are guardrails of safety put there for you. But it's not for the faint-hearted, is it? It's definitely not, but I would also argue that it's not all-outreact. risk. The sport has become very safe over the years. Of course, there's still, unfortunately, tragedies, but I believe that there's many sports where injury or something can happen. But I do think the speeds that we're taking out on track in motorsports generally means it's quite frightening to watch. You know, my son's just started racing, so now suddenly I know what my parents went through. But when I became a mother, I'd already retired from racing. I didn't

retire to become a mother. But certainly, I think when you become a parent, are you willing to risk everything anymore when you know someone is relying on you as much as a son or a daughter does? Probably not. So glad that I had retired from racing when I became a mother. Tell me a bit more about the F1 Academy then, how it got set up and where it is now. Well, credit to F1, I think they recognised this growing female fan base that the sport has. and they wanted to give opportunity to young women because motorsport has a high financial barrier to entry unlike football, tennis or basketball

where you literally need a court and a ball that you can practice. You need money to go racing, even if it's as simple as going to your local car track, it still costs money. And most of the all-time greats come from money, don't they? I mean, it is a simple fact. They're backed by huge bank accounts, bank of mum and dad,

or whatever? In some circumstances, yes, but then you look at Lewis, Hamilton, probably the greatest of all time in our sport, and not from a hugely affluent background. So you like to think that talent will find its way, it will rise to the top, no matter the circumstance. But I think the fact that this high financial barrier is there in the sport, and then the perception of the sport is still so male-dominated

that we just don't have enough young women entering the sport. So F1 had this concept of F1 Academy to really increase the pipeline of young female talent. We cover nearly all the funding for a young driver to race in F1 Academy which is an all-female race series. We race with F1 on seven Grand Prix race weekends normally a couple of hours before the Grand Prix starts.

And we have the 10 Formula 1 teams on board. So you have young women in a Red Bull, McLaren, Mercedes Ferrari race suit out on track in an F4 car which is like a miniature F1. car and that is not just a huge opportunity for them but such a strong inspiration for the next generation because sometimes in life you have to see it to believe it and we see there's just more young women turning up at cart tracks now because they see what's possible with F1

Academy and presumably you have been lifted up by the enormous success of women's football of women's rugby of women's cricket because apart from anything else Susie I mean this is such an obvious thing that you already know where money and success meat is a very happy place for sport and presumably motor racing benefits from having seen the advertising flood into those sports now that women are doing incredibly well and pulling in the crowds well I definitely dived into that in my book because I think we're at a very important crossroad where women's sport has broken through huge opportunity and luckily for us F1 put a lot of investment to build F1 Academy up

and like you rightly said when that investment meets the opportunity suddenly so much momentum and that's just wonderful to see when do you think it means that we will be able to see in reality the dream that you had when you were a young girl a podium full of women

and not being kind of questioned for being there I think it will take some years because we've got to really build up the pipeline of talent but if we do a good job with F1 Academy, it will be inevitable because there'll be so many more talented young women racing, more young women in the sport. To your point, it will be not special to be a woman in the sport anymore.

It will just be, well, she is an engineer or a strategist or a driver rather than a female driver or a female strategist. So we've got to do a very good job at the foundation, which I think we're on a good way, and it will be inevitable. Will it be five, eight, ten years? I can't tell you exactly, but I think it will definitely happen. There is a problem in society

with sexism towards women, with men taking advantage of women. And actually, do you know what, Susie, it is almost rare to interview very successful women who've written their memoirs without having to refer to some incident in their life

where they have been vulnerable to unwanted male attention you have that experience yourself. So I wonder whether you'd mind telling us a little bit about that. And also, what we do about it, it is so exhausting to constantly have to talk about it, isn't it? And I don't have to ask the same question of a successful man who's written a memoir. I really don't, or very, very rarely. It's frustrating to hear that.

It was really important for me to put it in the book. I didn't want the book to just be all of the shiny, rosy parts of my journey because they were very tough moments throughout the journey and that was one of them where I was petrified and to your point I also know so many friends and women who had

to have those experiences and I was very fortunate that the person didn't get into my room and so you were at a corporate gig aren't you? I was at a I was at the end of your Christmas party for Mercedes and I didn't go to the bar I didn't drink because I was obviously a sports I was a driver and I was in my room and at 2 o'clock the phone kept ringing I pulled off it's off the wall and then the knocking on the door started and it was that split second what am I

going to do if that door opens but it didn't open and when I turned up to the first F1 Grand Prix in Melbourne the following year the person immediately apologised so I'm grateful that my experience was okay but I'm well aware that for many it doesn't turn out like that and it's truly frightening and I think the more we can speak about it the more we can recognize that it still happens the more we can we can force environments and industries to to be more aware and to create a situation where if something does happen a woman can put her hand up and say this and this happened that she'll be listened to that it'll be recognized do you think that f1 might have more of a problem than other sports though

because it does have a very kind of it's got a macho top note isn't it? It does, I mean we're trying our best with F1 Academy to disrupt to challenge the perceptions that it's a macho world because I think it has changed

and real credit to Stefan Dominicale, the CEO and those within F1 because there has been a real effort made and let's not forget the world's changed. Society has also changed. The Me Too movement has meant people, teams industries have to be more aware of what is going on

so I think that's been a step in the right direction but we still need to do more of course we do we have to make sure that it's a situation where it just can't happen anymore but I do think in many instances it comes down to individuals more than the sport as a whole and we just need to make sure that it over time comes to the point where it's just completely unacceptable. May I ask what your husband thought of that instant. I mean, he's an incredibly important figure in Formula One, and you presumably

have told him who this guy was. Does Toto Will still have to come across him and sit at a table with him and do business with him? No, he doesn't, because it was a different time. But I think there's a lot to be said of, as a woman, who you choose to partner in your life with, who you choose to marry or spend your life with plays such an important part as to how your journey will unfold and I was incredibly lucky that I have a husband

that supports me 100% and he's tough he doesn't shy away if he doesn't think something is good enough you surprise me Suzy he doesn't wrap me in cotton wool but he loves to see me go out

and do my own thing and to succeed and he's definitely always in my corner and that's something I don't underestimate me is to have being so important because sometimes being a wife and a mother, it's a huge juggle and then on top

trying to keep your own ambitions alive and keep your own journey of improvement and discovery that's sometimes tough and he definitely supports me a lot. Sometimes it has been difficult though, hasn't it, for both of you professionally, because you are husband and wife. So there was a conflict of interest point raised,

wasn't there against you running the F1? Academy that I know had a huge pushback immediately from the teams, didn't it? Can you tell us a bit more about what happened there? It was a very unfortunate situation because the reality is we both work in the same sport, but F1 Academy has nothing to do with F1. You know, it's run as its own series, but out came this accusation. And to your point, very quickly, all the teams united to say, well, they didn't have an issue with it, which I found, well, which really touched me.

at the time because they don't normally do that but I think they had recognised what Momentum F1 Academy was having, how passionate I was about trying to make a positive difference so it very quickly got dropped without there having been any investigating and it was

a moment that left a sour taste in my mouth because there was no foundation for it, there was no investigating and it just after creating 600 articles online was suddenly dropped and not spoken about again. Yep. And Do you have any points on your normal driving licence, Susie Wolfe?

Well, I've lost my licence before because let's just say I'm not always aware of just how quick I am driving, which can be dangerous and very expensive. So to your point, right now I'm in a good spot, but I have been in difficulty in the past. What does super, super speed actually feel like? Because most of us won't have driven over. I daren't go over about 65 miles an hour

I'm gripping the steering wheel if I do, Susie. So the notion that your body could be in a machine going up, what would your maximum speed have been? Just over 300 kilometres an hour. Oh, for heaven, say. Okay, what does it feel like?

I mean, it's difficult for someone to explain someone that doesn't like speed because I love the feeling of speed, whether I'm on... Pretend I'm a different person. Okay, well, even if I'm on a mountain skiing or in a car, I just love the acceleration that you get from going

fast, the adrenaline that surges through you. And when you're competing, then the dancing on the edge of what's possible in a racing car. That's the grip from the tyre and the cornering. And for me, it's one of the best feelings in the world, but clearly you need to like speed. You are quite a slender woman as well, aren't you? And I know that you mentioned in the book a couple of times. Your neck is quite vulnerable, isn't it, when you're going at a huge speed like that? What can you do to protect yourself more? Does it matter that you're a slender person? It's actually advantageous in racing. And if you look at, like we mentioned, the F1 drivers, you can't be big, you can't really be tall because this is so compact in the

car. So every kilo that you can give back to the engineers, because the car with driver has to be a certain weight, that can be very, very advantageous. So most drivers are always on a diet or happen to be very careful of what they eat, a bit like a jockey. And my build was in that sense advantageous in that I didn't have the extra kilos and it didn't count against me in performance. But what's happening to your neck when you're driving at speed? Why is your neck so vulnerable?

Because you're strapped, the seat is carbon fibre built to your exact proportions and you're so tightly strapped in that the only thing which isn't strapped down is your neck and it takes the huge G force I mean G, 1G is double your own body weight under braking for a at the end of the straight in an F1 car

you'll hit around 4.5G so that's a huge amount of what feels like weight pressing on the back of your head and then when you're cornering on the side of your neck muscles but the great thing is neck muscles are small they can be built up quickly

I had always a huge neck because it got built up over so many years but the minute I stopped racing because the muscles were so small it quite quickly shrunk but I was proud of that neck it held me in good stead in many moments of my career good for you girlfriend

you're wearing a polo neck today only because it's a bit chilly no I'm thinking she's still got the amazing neck a couple of quickfire questions if I may for people who are listening who would just like your opinion on current Grand Prix and Formula One news Lando Norris would you like to tell us

your thoughts about him? Very deserving world champion and very good for me that he showed you do it your own way. You don't need to conform to what an ideal is of what a champion is. He's very different to Max, but he won it on his terms and showed that you be you,

you stay authentic to who you are and it's still possible. New regulations in Formula One, what will they mean? Exciting. Everyone's starting from a blank sheet of paper. Who will have got it right? Who will have missed something?

there are going to be a lot of nervous people in Formula One the last week of January when those cars hit the track for the first time. And can you give us a name from someone who you're familiar with in your academy who we should really, really watch out for, who might be as groundbreaking in the sport as you've been? Difficult to say just one because I see many coming through. You may do a couple, but only because it's Christmas. Okay, well, I'll do their first names so then it doesn't look like I'm singling them out.

there's a young girl who will be out in the F1 Academy for Ferrari next year, Alba Larson. Red Bull have an outstanding young British driver, Alicia. So definitely some talents that really fill me with hope for the future. Susie Wolfe and her biography is called Driven. If you're interested in women in sport, if you're interested in Formula One, and if you're interested in following your kids' dreams as well, then it is a very good book to read because her parents just completely and utterly believed in her. And in fact, she was very bright at school and got excellent hires and got a place to do business studies at Edinburgh University.

And she, I think, only managed a couple of weeks, definitely didn't make it through much beyond the first term. And she just called her parents up and said, this just isn't me. I can't fit into this. It doesn't matter how hard I try. I've just got to get back to something that has wheels on it. And they just went, yep, you've given it your best shot doing something else. But we believe in you. And off she went.

she's broken some records, broken some boundaries, and she was a very, very lovely person to spend half an hour with. We will regroup tomorrow. We would love all of your emails. If you've got DARF pronunciations of things that you know deep inside yourself are said one way, but everybody insists on saying it. The other will take those. We've also got some lovely, lovely lodger stories to divulge as well.

and if anybody else has been in a dance troupe and would like to share their dance moments then Eve would love to hear from you and we have that one from Peter Oh we've got the nice email Just got a nice email for a bloke called Peter well remembered speak to you tomorrow

Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another Offair with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online, on DAB, or on the free Times Radio app. Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury. and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.