Off Air... with Jane and Fi - A calming, cold flannel of a person

Episode Date: May 18, 2023

Jane and Fi are talking about pet insurance that's a trifle suspicious, the little moments of joy in raising toddlers and, of course, sex. They're joined by Rory Cellan-Jones to talk about his podcast 'Movers and Shakers: a podcast about life with Parkinson's'If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Producers: Kate LeeTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Oh gosh. Stay still. Stay still. Yes. You may now move. Thank you. Right. Welcome to Off Air Thursday's edition.

Of course, it might not be Thursday when or where you're listening, and it doesn't matter. Thursday is the end of our week, but by no means the end of everybody's, so we need to make that clear. Working week, of course, we don't stop existing, although maybe we do. Shall we just talk about sex? Well, yes okay okay so we've had so many emails uh about the amount of sex that you'd like to be having that you miss having that you feel you should be having uh it's a very very unique thing i'd say uh and there's

definitely no point at which you and i jane are going to be able to form any kind of a conclusion about the national sexual regulatory time habit. No, I mean, I do love this email that combines the issues I've been having with my boiler and sex. So can I just do this one? Of course. From anonymous. Hello, Jane. You need to get that boiler of yours serviced. I had heat and water coming on together and a service solved it well funny you should say that because it was after i had my boiler serviced that the problem started uh but never mind yes thank you for the thought uh resex don't give my name i am 68 and i'm single but i've had a beautiful lover, 14 years younger than me for nearly 10 years, who visits once a year. He arrives at 12 after work and leaves at midday the next day. And it's great. I love having a delicious man in my bed once a year.

And it's always a terrific night. Honestly, it's like eating Christmas lunch. It might be your favourite meal, but if you had it more than once a year, you'd soon go off it. I mean, as Fee's just said, actually, there's no right and wrong. There are no answers, but that's what that person is living through. And they sound pretty positive about it. I think there's more than just a kind of serendipitous connection between the boiler being serviced and the once a year sex thing. You know, maybe for some people it is very much like a boiler being serviced and the once-a-year sex thing. You know, maybe for some people, it is very much like a boiler being serviced.

You know, you don't need your boiler serviced every week, do you? You just need a major look at it once a year. Some tinkering. So you can stay under the guarantee. I mean, the difficult thing for me is I could eat Christmas lunch more than once a year. OK. Well, I was going to say I do like a qualified engineer. So we could go on.

Oh, dear. This one says, hello, Finn, Jane, on the topic of how often people have sex. You mentioned in the show that sometimes it's women who want it more than men. I'm in my mid-40s and I would say that it is this way round for 90% of my female friends and has been since our 20s. I think the old assumptions about men being constantly up for it and women not are now completely outdated. That said, I don't think there's anything wrong

with wanting it less over time. That is the case for me. I always remember Rupert Everett in his memoirs saying something about how when he turned 50, it was like a tap being switched off, but that it was marvellous because you could suddenly go out with people you actually liked. He is the absolute master, isn't he, of the very, very, very catty but incredibly observant witticism.

It was Rupert Everett, I think, that got me into audiobooks because I listened to his autobiography, I think, during lockdown. And it was brilliant because it's Rupert reading it and it's just very, very, very... There's a lot of tittle-tattle. It's just great. It's fabulously entertaining. Dog adoption? Do you want to go there? Yes. Well, shall we just explain why? Yes. Well, we should say that our guest, and you'll hear from him in a couple of minutes, he's such a lovely man.

Rory Cathlin-Jones was, as he discovered, I think, the BBC's first ever technology correspondent. He's just started a podcast called Movers and Shakers, which is about living with Parkinson's disease, which is Rory's situation. But he also is most famous, I think he'd probably admit this, right now, for being the very proud co-parent of Sophie, the rescue dog from Romania. And we asked just to hear from you if you'd gone that route of animal or dog adoption. And Rachel has sent the most perfect picture of her little Milo from Cyprus. It's four years since Milo arrived with us from Cyprus via the SPDC charity, she says.

He's settled in brilliantly. He's sometimes obedient, all obsessed, loves chicken and cheese, massively affectionate and thinks he's my very own personal security detail. And he is the cutest little lad. Look at Milo. Milo is sensational because Milo has absolutely nailed the slightly head cock to one side. He's cocking his head. I'm alluring and I know it. Yeah, he's absolutely gorgeous,

Rachel. Congratulations. Can I ask a question? Yes. Can you adopt cats from different countries or is it just the dogs? Oh no, we're not going there. No, but seriously. It's a question because I hear a lot of, and I meet a lot of dogs in the park who are adopted from, it does tend to be the Eastern European countries, but I've never heard of anyone saying, come home and meet my cat. It's Bobbitts from Lithuania. The last time I was in Greece, there were cats everywhere, clearly not owned. I know you can't own a cat because they own you,

but it does seem we are in this country quite connected to the idea of domestic pets, aren't we, in a way that a lot of other nationalities are not. I just want to quickly mention Anna, who says, just listening to Rory talking about his Sophie, we have had three pups from Romania. Our first, Fern, was a very sweet soul, but we realised very early on that there was something wrong with her.

And it turned out she'd been hit by a car before coming to the UK. And really, all we had to do was make her last months comfortable. Oh, dear, we had no support from the rescue charity, and it cost us thousands. When she died, we swore we wouldn't get her another Romanian rescue pup. However, as lockdown loomed, we realised we'd be home for a while. So we got Buddy and then a year later, Bear from a different charity. And they've been amazing and supportive. Neither are without their challenges. Buddy is very small and has an attitude problem. Yes, that reminds me of, well,

myself. Bear is absolutely terrified of everything from a sweeping brush to any human who isn't immediate family. But we do love them and their quirks. And we know they're in a better place than on the streets of Romania. And we got pet insurance the moment they arrived. Councils Anna, good tip. Yeah, it isn't without its challenges, though, is it clearly? Because you don't quite know what you're challenges though is it clearly because you don't quite know what you're getting but then i suppose you don't know what you're getting when you have a child no or or any rescue pet from closer to home should we do a quick joy surge yes joy surge here we go uh this was we were talking yesterday uh just about the tiny little moments that can, in a very long day of early years childcare,

make it all seem worthwhile. This one comes from Liz, who says, I had to smile to myself when I heard you talking about joy surges, that little episode of happiness you get when your two-year-old cuddles you after a day of you trying to stay awake whilst completing a hey-duggy jigsaw for the 20th time of the day. My son is two and full of beans. He's the light of my life, but it's sometimes hard to feel that joy

when he throws his dinner on the floor or decides that he no longer likes Hey Dougie and wants you to start playing with something else immediately. I don't always get the chance to speak to other grown-ups on my days at home with him, so after he's gone to bed, I have a little lie down and put on your podcast. Just being able to hear adult conversation reminds me there is a world beyond childcare and it's okay to enjoy both of those worlds. Liz goes on to say, I think a lot of the

pressure is being put on women these days to either have children and get straight back to work full time or stay at home with them until they reach adulthood and are able to hire their own nanny and I thought that was interesting actually because I think maybe you and I rather hope that in our lifetime those two worlds weren't so polarised and there was much more of a world you could inhabit in between where you are neither deciding to give up your own work outside the home, as George W. Bush put it, or just stay in the office and have childcare all the way through. So it's interesting to hear that those are still two very, very separate, massive choices women are having to make, because that's really tough.

And it shouldn't just be women making the choices, should it? And I know it isn't always. I also just want to say to Liz that I just think being with very small people, playing with small children, is incredibly difficult. Yes, definitely. And I just wish somebody had talked to me about what it would be like before I found myself doing it, because it's hard to think of what to do. I mean, I was just not very much good at it.

And actually, I thought recently, what is it about grandparents necessarily that makes them any better? I haven't changed as an individual. I'm still not particularly patient. Well, it's because you know that it's not forever and you can give them back at the end of the day. Yeah, but will I be any more good

in the pop-up post office in five or six or seven or eight years' time than I was 25 years. No, you'll still be rubbish and impatient and scrolling through your phone and eating hunks of cheese straight from the fridge. You'll still be doing all those things, but that's not your only thing, is it? That's why it must be so much easier. But also I do always think it's worth saying

to people in Liz's position, and actually I wish that I'd known this a bit more when my two were very young. It is a phase of life that actually really does pass. And I'm not going to do that nostalgic kind of, oh, it goes too quickly, because I found some of the days I'm better at being young. It goes really slowly.

But it does pass. And actually, those surges of joy, I think for lots and lots and lots of parents, Liz, that's kind of all you can really hope for from it and the rest of it might be a bit of a grind. But you're kind of doing that bit of childhood definitely for them, not for you, and it's not forever. So I hope you'll be all right.

But I totally get it as well about finding that you're just not talking to adults very often and I did used to find that I went a bit odd when I had my first adult conversation of the day with somebody and usually it would be somebody in a shop or on a bus and I would literally be like a pan of boiling water flipping the lid off and boiling over I'd have too much to tell random strangers just because I hadn't spoken to anybody. They didn't want to hear it.

Well, some people were more polite. And I think some people just, you know, enjoyed the randomness of the chat too. But it's just, you know, it is a very different world from the one that you have probably been used to. So also, I just hope you're doing okay. And the joy surges I found were absolutely wonderful. And actually, I remember those an awful lot more

than I've chosen to remember Hey Dougie. Which I have not seen. Is that about a dog? I've got no idea. I mean, they're all the same, aren't they? They've got six pieces in them, haven't they? Six enormous pieces. It remained to be a challenge in our house, I can tell you.

Well, you still felt something. I felt giddy when you actually managed to complete it. Yes, but then you had to do it again. Yeah. A couple of quickies here. Jane, what is it about linen you don't like? Nothing against other people who wear linen. I just need to be clear about this.

I look a crumpled, frumpled, diabolical mess whenever I attempt to wear linen. So I don't go there. But somebody in a well put together linen suit or a shirt or a duvet cover, you go that way. I'm completely cool with it. Have you not thought about a blend? No. Do Marks and Sparks offer a linen blend? I think they do. OK. And this is from Anonymous. No wonder they want to stay anonymous. I listened to my podcast in bed.

I fell asleep mid The Rest Is Politics and ended up having an interesting dream about Alastair Campbell. Oh, dear, says Anonymous. And quite right, too. Good Lord. What filth. I don't think I can follow that. Would you like to introduce our guest? We'll do a couple of emails afterwards.

Well, you made a saucy remark about Oliver Dowden. What's he ever done? For those of you who don't keep up with British politics and listen, how could you or why would you? The current Deputy Prime Minister, newly appointed in that role, is a man called Oliver Dowden. And Fee has obviously got the hots.

No, it's not that at all. It's just Jane Mulkerins and you were kind of racing around trying to guess who it might be on the front cover of this Saturday's Times magazine. And it's all very, very hush hush because it's such an important, sexy name. And it's all very, very hush-hush because it's such an important, sexy name. And for some reason, Oliver Dowden was the first calming, cold flannel of a person I could think of. Yeah, I see. So, you know, you were talking about going to pets and I'll let you get to our guest in a moment. But our lovely puppy Prada, so Susie Prada, developed a slight cough and my soft husband whipped her off to the vet. My reaction was, if I wouldn't take a child to the doctor, I wouldn't take a dog to the vet. However, the vet said that Prada needed a heart scan, £1,500, as he could hear a slight murmur, but would instead also prescribe antibiotics. No to the scan, thank you. Cough cleared up and when

she was spayed, and there were many other treatments too, there was no mention of the murmur. Pet insurance has a lot to answer for, suspect Susie. So I think Susie's suggesting there that some vets might just, because I was also offered a heart murmur for my late mittens, offered a heart scan, sorry, for my late mittens, late heart murmur. and i also was a trifle suspicious it's so difficult because i have had some correspondence from a vet saying you should definitely do the scan really yep and because there is medication that might work if it's a myocardiological anchor something wall defabrication. I know.

We'll make our correspondent feel awful too. It's horrible actually, Jane. In all seriousness, now when I was giving Nancy a right old cuddle last night, sometimes I really miss her, I thought I am thinking now about your demise after the vet having said that.

And I thought I really, really resent him for having said that actually because i don't want to spend however long nancy's got on the planet greyhounds don't live that long looking at her thinking a am i being a bad owner because i'm not spending a grand investigating a heart murmur and b you know are you on your way out it's a horror it's horrible i don't waste your time i think i always think think Nancy sounds to me like she's having a lovely life. So just enjoy it. But yeah, I'm a bit annoyed by that.

Can I apologise to... In Thailand, she sent a really fantastic email about being the parent of kids who've stood up to bullies and have been cancelled because of it. And I'd like to read all of that. And I'll do that on Monday at the start of our podcast, because I think there's some mileage in that, actually, and talking about that a little bit more.

But I need to apologise, because the imaginary oboe sound that I emitted almost caused an accident for her when she was driving, because she thought it was a beep from a car, and she slammed on the brakes. I know. It could have been really bad. No, she thought it was a motorcycle horn, slammed the brakes of the car,

and the car behind me was millimetres away from hitting me. Now, I'm not one to disrespect the oboe, says... Beep! But you can tell she's going to, can't you? I think there is something coming. I think this may be another reason why the less said about it, the better. The oboe can't catch a break, can it?

No, it really can't. I just want to mention this. I know I keep saying we're going to get on to the guests, but your emails have been brilliant. So please do keep them coming. Jane and Fee at times.radio. This is sort of carrying on from the idea of family estrangement. And it's from somebody, I won't mention her name,

who had a really difficult relationship with her mother but um they're now in what they describe as a different territory my mum is now in a care home with alzheimer's developed at rapid pace exacerbated by the effects and experiences of covid she's forgotten that i'm her daughter and sees me as a friend the result is that she is utterly delightful towards me for the first time in my life. She enjoys a loving and happy relationship with my daughter and they often spend time doing crafts and children's quizzes together as my mother's ability to process the world around her decreases and she finds herself more comfortable and happier in

the world occupied by an eight-year-old. At the age of 47, I'm enjoying the best relationship I've ever had with my mother, and although different to the usual mother-daughter bond that others might enjoy, I find myself feeling happy that when she does die, she will have her family around her, even if she might not realise who we are. That's a completely devastating set of circumstances but also a very positive one so to that listener i'm so sorry you went through such a tough time and i'm so glad that you've you've rescued something and that your mum and you and your daughter are just kind of getting together and being with each other in the way that you're now able to do it i think that's great and i'm

i don't think it's an unfamiliar story, that change in personality that can go either way. And I think maybe do we hear more about it when it goes the other way and is accompanied by a kind of deterioration and aggression? Perhaps that's what's more automatically thought of when somebody... Yeah, it is generally, isn't it? But it can be this way, I think. Yeah, but it's a very odd silver lining, isn't it? It is. Can I just offer you a beep, please, Kate?

Because in Thailand, I wanted to remain anonymous, so she will be beep in Thailand. Thank you. So we had a delightful guest today, Rory Kethlin-Jones, who was the first ever tech correspondent for the BBC. He left in 2021, and amongst other things, he now hosts a podcast about having Parkinson's. It's called Movers and Shakers. And Rory was diagnosed with Parkinson's

as he will explain about, what, five years ago now. So he came in to talk about the podcast, which also features luminaries such as Sir Nicholas Mostyn, who's a High Court judge, and Jeremy Paxson. Who's he, Jane? Don't know. And they talk really openly about ways of coping with their diagnosis, with the disease. They talk about the medicine that's available to them. It's a really wonderful thing. They've created a unique community there. Rory also has a dog called Sophie, a rescue dog from Romania. If you follow Sophie from Romania or Rory on Twitter, then you'll know that she's ever so shy, spends most of her

life behind the sofa. So we had plenty of things to talk to Rory about. And I started by asking him whether it was true that it was a viewer who spotted that he might have Parkinson's before he actually became aware of it. Well, I had begun to have a few slight concerns, but then in about September 2018, I was doing a live broadcast from Jersey about broadband, really exciting. I was holding a cable and in my hand saying, look, everyone's being given this fantastic broadband service on this island. And somebody wrote in and said they couldn't help noticing, which I hadn't noticed, that my hand was trembling. And that was a possible sign. They wrote in, I was beginning to wonder. They said see a GP.

I saw my GP and waited another four months to see a specialist and eventually was diagnosed. What does it feel like in the very early stages of Parkinson's? It feels like you're just a bit slow and you assume it's because you're an old person frankly in my case you know getting out of bed in the mornings takes a bit longer taking the top off the marmalade it's a bit of a struggle all those normal things what was a particular sign with me, though, was we were on holiday in Italy and I was dragging my right foot. My wife kept saying, pick your feet up, man. And it turned out that that was a real clue. And I've got a lot of weakness down that right side. But at the moment, it's not particularly disabling. I feel relatively fortunate.

And is there a test that you can be given that very clearly diagnoses the disease? Well, that's an interesting thing. There's something called a DAT scan where they look inside your head, but they say rather cheerily. It's only when you're dead that we'll really know when we have a proper look inside your brain. But I've just been doing some work on, there's a fascinating woman whose husband had Parkinson's who had an acute sense of smell and said she could smell it. And it turned out she could smell it. And her technique has been adopted by a department of Manchester University, by a woman who's a professor of mass spectrometry.

And I was there a few weeks ago. She can take a swab off the back of your neck, put it in this machine and then say, yes, you've got Parkinson's or no, you haven't. So that kind of test, that instant test is coming soon. It will be interesting to see whether people want to know earlier that they've got it or not. Would you have wanted to know? I suppose so. I'm usually in favour of knowing stuff and being open about stuff. But obviously it's not great news to get.

What does it do to you, knowing that you have it? Well, for me, it was a bit different, because I had had a cancer diagnosis, which had absolutely terrified me in 2005. I've got a melanoma, acute malignant melanoma, behind my left eye, and that had seemed terrifying. And so this seemed seemed, you know, yet another darn thing. My dad had had it, so I knew a bit about it.

What I didn't realise was all the non-physical symptoms of it, sleeplessness, I'm a really poor sleeper, and depression, which luckily I've come out of. But the first year I was depressed. And I didn't really associate it with the Parkinson's, but physically it is a symptom. In fact, the next episode of our podcast at the weekend deals with it. And then we've got Jeremy Paxman talking really interestingly about it because that's the thing that he's really focused on. So tell us a little bit more about how the podcast came about. It's called Movers and Shakers. As you've mentioned, Jeremy Paxman is there.

You've got a high court judge. You've got the writer of The Vicar of Dibley. It's an all-star cast, isn't it? The fabulous Mark Snakehips Mardell. Mark Snakehips Mardell, yes. He sends his love, by the way. Yeah, well, the way it happened was another broadcaster who I don't know that well, Edward Sturton, called me up one day and said, I've got a great friend who's just been diagnosed

with Parkinson's and he's in a terrible way. People seem to come to me for advice. He put me in touch with him. We went for a drink. The judge, as it was, Judge Nick Sir Nicholas Mostyn, seemed to me actually a very bubbly character. He was incredibly enthusiastic and we met again. He said the second time, do you mind if I bring Jeremy Paxman along? And I said, fine, assuming he was an old friend. It turned out he barely knew him. And we ended up in this pub in Notting Hill with half a dozen of us meeting regularly.

And the judge kept saying, well, first of all, he said, we ought to write a book. And Jeremy said, that's the worst idea anybody's had ever and then he said we should do a podcast and we all went grumble grumble mumble mumble but I I knew a little bit about podcasting we had several meetings and suddenly it happened without us kind of realizing somehow and it's been an extraordinary experience because the the reactions we've had are amazing i've just been reading some of the emails that i get every day on the way here um people just really pleased that this condition which they feel is under recognized is being talked about by voices they know so So in one of the episodes which is called Coping you all talk around the table about the things that have helped you to cope with the diagnosis and with the disease and actually I thought one of the most moving responses

was when Jeremy Paxman said what he would have wanted was a podcast like the one that you're doing to just be able to hear voices from people, to hear stories from people, almost outside the medicalisation of the disease. It's just about how to live your life with it, isn't it? I mean, it's a wonderful thing you've done. Well, thank you. Yeah. I mean, one of the problems is, and I suspect it's the same with lots of chronic diseases that don't kill you in a hurry, is that you get it, you're told you've got it, and then you're told virtually, bye-bye, we'll see you again in a year. And you feel kind of marooned. I mean, we are lucky, and I think we've got to really make this point, that half a dozen of us, we're privileged, we're relatively well-off,

we have people with sharp elbows, we can get treatment. We've heard from lots of people, particularly in rural areas, that just feel abandoned, feel that there's nobody to talk to about their issues. And as I said, they may not see their consultant from one year to the next. So I think it's important to get that message out. An episode I listened to was about work.

And obviously your employer is very important here. And their attitude towards Parkinson's is really important. And if you have, as I think one of the contributors said during the podcast, a manual job, then frankly you're probably a busted flush, aren't you? I mean, you more or less have to pack up. Well, yeah, I mean, and there's a huge decision people have about whether to talk about it or not.

And even some of our team were cautious about it at first. How will I be seen, not just by my employers, but by my colleagues? Will they think, you know, I've got that old man's disease, you know, I'm not worth bothering with anymore. I think the message we came out with eventually was do talk about it because employers need to know if you're to get your rights. And a lot of them will be more sympathetic than you imagine. But it is hard. I met years ago, a couple of years ago at a Parkinson's event, a farm labourer, and he said it had taken him years

to tell his bosses because he just thought that they would put him on the scrap heap. his boss is because he just thought that they would put him on the scrap heap. Voice over describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. Voice over on settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books, contacts, calendar, double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day.

Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Rory Catherine-Jones is our guest this afternoon. We're talking about Parkinson's disease. We are going to talk about rescue dogs from Romania. And we'll probably have some thoughts about Elon Musk from back in the day too. Just a couple more thoughts about Parkinson's. How close is the world to some kind of a cure? I write about this too. One of the things I do is write a newsletter about health and technology, which inevitably focuses on Parkinson's. So I've been to quite a few sort of meetings and events about potential cures. And the trouble,

the frustrating thing is there's great work being done, but the funding going into it is minuscule compared to what, for obvious reasons, goes into things like cancer. And there are potential breakthroughs, but they always seem to be five years away. You know, 20 years ago, they seemed to be five years away. And right now there are two promising drugs. Interestingly, repurposed, ordinary drugs is one that's basically cough medicine that may have a slowing effect on Parkinson's

because that's all we're talking about. Even slowing it down, you can't do at the moment. The drugs that we've had have been around for 60 years and they mask the symptoms. They don't arrest the progression of the condition. So I think I heard you say on one of the episodes, Rory, that actually if we all live to be 120, which seems to be within the realms of possibility

in the dreamscape of the future, then actually nearly all of us would get Parkinson's. Is that...? I think that's what one of the consultants said, yeah. I mean, it does appear to be a condition that afflicts more and more people as we get older. And is it more likely to occur in men rather than women? I think there is, yeah, there are more men than women get it.

But we've had lots of women write in, and particularly young women, saying, yeah, that is true, but that kind of makes it even harder for us. Because there's this sort of stigma, this cliche about it being an old man's disease. And people, you know, here's the awful thing. People assume that in some cases, oh, you're drunk or you're not really together. I heard that the only female contributor to Movers and Shakers is Gillian Lacey-Solomor, a journalist, an academic. And she said that when she was lecturing that some students would think that she was drunk.

Yeah. And you can kind of see why. I mean, I was being filmed the other day for some medical trial about walking with Parkinson's. And I thought, golly, I didn't know I looked like that I look much more kind of disabled than I see myself um and you know some of the symptoms particularly at difficult times um just get more acute um and people make assumptions and that is why I think you know you should encourage people to quotes come out about it yeah uh movers and shakers is the name of the podcast, comes highly recommended by both Jane and I. It's just a really, really interesting, thoughtful and intelligent insight into something

that even if you do not suffer from it yourself at some stage in your life, you are bound to. And can I say there are also a lot of laughs in it. Yeah, it's funny too. You're absolutely right. It is funny too. And Jane said before that you all managed to keep Jeremy Paxman in check. Just about. Yeah, just about. Something of a hobby in the past, I would have thought. Can we talk about your lovely, lovely, lovely dog,

Sophie from Romania? What's the story behind wanting her and getting her? Well, we had a lovely rescue dog called, believe it or not, Cabbage, that became a bit of an internet star for a while. I used to post a picture of her every day during not cabbage that became a bit of a uh an internet star for a while i used to post a picture of her every day during lockdown it was a kind of comforting thing for me and then it turned out other people were interested and she also got stolen at one point uh the van the dog walkers van in which she and five other dogs were was driven away and that turned into a sort of day-long drama drama and she died at the beginning of last year and we took some time to get over it particularly my wife but towards the end of the year we decided we would get another dog and we went to the the UK rescue homes and they're great they are very

cautious they tend to stress the negatives about their dogs and there seemed to be a lot of staffies which we weren't particularly interested in. A lot of dogs that, you know, we were told needed a muzzle or so on and so on. And then a friend said, oh, I got my dog from a Romanian charity. And we contacted the Romanian charity. And we chose Sophie.

We saw her on video. She looked a lively thing. She's very pretty, sort of looks a bit German Shepherd. And she turned up on December the 17th at 3 a.m having been driven across europe with a bunch of other dogs was put in my arms looking absolutely terrified which we weren't surprised by um put her down and then the next morning tried to take her for a walk which is what i've been yearning for all year because walking the dog is one of the things I do. And she wouldn't go.

She wouldn't budge. And she retreated behind the sofa. And to be frank, she spent a lot of her time, five months since, behind that sofa. But that's what's so magical about all the little clips that you put up because there are so many of us willing her out from behind the sofa. Has been out for a walk she's not been out for a walk she the the big breakthrough a couple of months in was that she went out into the garden and she does go out in the garden uh every morning and she looks a different dog out there she's not too keen on us

sharing the garden with us uh with her but she she romps around the garden. And this morning, you know, I've got a little clip of her running around with her tail up. And then she comes in again. And every now and then, and I've been doing a bit better this week, I can actually feed her by hand. She'll trust me close enough to come up close. But then she spends a lot of time behind the sofa. Has to be said, she's much better or quite a deal better, with my wife Diane,

who has managed to... who's got a very calming voice and a very calming presence and is also a lot more patient than I am, and has managed to stroke her at length. And we are just hoping, possibly this weekend, to get a collar on her, because we took the collar off at an early stage because we thought it might be making her more tense.

And now, obviously, we're going to have a walk. We've got to get the collar on. Do you have any idea what her circumstances were before that might have caused all of the trauma? The strange thing is they don't appear to have been too traumatic. She was dumped by the road in rural Romania and rescued by a woman vet who works for this organization the rescue organization but she then gave the the

dog to her dad who had a barn where he kept the dog and a couple of other dogs for quite some months before she came over and the theory is that she's never lived in a home. She's hardly known anybody except this man who kept her and fed her in the barn, who she appeared to be quite affectionate to in the video. She spent three and a half days in a van travelling across Europe and landed inside a house with these strange people. And she's just completely traumatised. And the trouble is she's found her safe place.

She's very happy behind the sofa. She comes out from, you know, time to time each day. The worry is she's got into a pattern. Yeah, I would hope, Roy, that when the sun comes out and she may be able to sense that other dogs are dancing in the dusk and dawn of this fair London town. She might want to just go and have a little bit of a sniff. I say this to her every day.

OK. I say, Sophie, that's enough. Out from behind the sofa. Don't the grey squirrels get a going? She's quite interested in the magpies that land in our garden. She sort of barks at them. But apart from that, not much. Rory Catherine Jones was our guest there it was so nice to see him Jane wasn't it? It was lovely um I think he's always been known to be a lovely man

and a generous man with his time as one of our colleagues was saying that when she worked for the BBC local radio station he would always be a man who made himself available and this might be slightly nerdy fact but it is true that a lot of the top bbc correspondents are genuinely busy and some of them don't make time or perhaps can't make time for i'll take all the caveats out just say it how it is sister summer writes odds and will only do the bare minimum and then there are people like Rory who will do really good entertaining stuff for local radio and other outlets yes and it's so important it is very much and I always got the sense and that way back in the day before everybody got really excited about tech he really saw something changing so he created this post at the BBC by saying to them you know this is a

massive thing that's happening he was on Twitter way before anyone else I knew. Yeah. And I remember him doing press conferences, you know, for those huge launches that Apple used to do for iPhones and thinking, well, that's a bit weird. I mean, it's just a phone and not realising what he realised, which was, you know, world changing stuff. So really, really lovely to see him today and to hear all about Sophie as well. And he's got a book coming out in September, which sounds incredible. It's about his mum. He was brought up by a single mum. His dad was his mum worked for the BBC. His dad worked for the BBC.

They had a very brief affair and she left to him a box full of loads and loads of things about the BBC, her life working there, their life together as mum and only child. And he's written a book all about it. So maybe we'll get to talk to him again. Well, that would be really good if we can. Can we finish with a lovely, a truly lovely email? Yes. About parenthood.

We don't need to mention the name. Actually, no, we won't, just in case. I wanted to get in touch about your recent discussions around gender my three-year-old daughter asked me this week mommy am i a girl this occurred slightly earlier in my parenting plan than i'd envisaged although doesn't everything and i experienced a mild panic about the fact that it might be my first step on the road to supporting her through a journey i hadn't quite prepared myself for my exterior remained calm whilst my brain ran through every article I'd read and every podcast I'd listened to, and I managed to scramble together the best response I could, which was,

well, how do you feel? There followed a slightly tense few seconds while I experienced waves of worry about whether I'd managed the situation correctly, before she looked me straight in the eye and announced, like a tiger. On the basis of this, I'm confident I have fully nailed parenthood and I'm equipped for the next, surely maximum of, 15 years. Phew, says our correspondent. Beautiful.

You're obviously doing everything right. Very best of luck to you and your young tiger cub. Grrr! To you and your young tiger cub. Well done for getting to the end of another episode of Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe. And don't forget, there is even more of us every afternoon on Times Radio. It's Monday to Thursday, three till five. You can pop us on when you're pottering around the house or heading out in the car on the school run or running a bank. Thank you for joining us and we hope you can join us again on off air very soon they'll be so silly running a bank i know lady listener sorry

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