Off Air... with Jane and Fi - A certain bad-ass insouciance (with Steph McGovern)

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

Mystic Garv makes a very brief return - listen out for it... As well as that, Jane and Fi discuss global stamps, neighbourly interactions, and unguent lotions. Plus, presenter and journalist, Steph McGovern, discusses her debut novel ‘Deadline’. If you want to contribute to our playlist, you can do that here: Off Air with Jane & Fi: Official Playlist - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3qIjhtS9sprg864IXC96he?si=9QZ7asvjQv2Zj4yaqP2P1Q If you want to come and see us at Fringe by the Sea, you can buy tickets here: www.fringebythesea.com/fi-jane-and-judy-murray/And if you fancy sending us a postcard, the address is:Jane and FiTimes Radio, News UK1 London Bridge StreetLondonSE1 9GFIf you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] The next book club pick has been announced! We’ll be reading Leonard and Hungry Paul by Rónán Hession. Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve Salusbury Executive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I just have a series of encounters with some of my neighbours. I never come off well. It doesn't go well for you. I just always seem to be mildly peculiar or totally eccentric. This episode of Off Air is brought to you by Thomas Fudge's Biscuits. We've got a bit of a reputation, haven't we Jane? Our desk here at Times Towers is pretty famous for having the most delicious sweet treats in the office. Yep, guilty as charged. But we're not into any old treats, no sir, only the most elevated biscuit makes the grade. Because we're so classy. May we introduce you to Thomas Fudgers, born from the

expert British craftsmanship of inventive Dorset bakers in 1916. Thomas Fudgers' Florentines are an indulgent blend of moorish caramel, exquisite almonds and luscious fruits draped in silky smooth Belgian chocolate. You've said a few key words there Fee. Exquisite, moorish, exactly the way my colleagues would describe me, I'm sure. Did you say sophisticated? I didn't, but I can. Just like the biscuits, you're very sophisticated darling. And like you, Thomas Fudges believes that indulgence is an art form and it should be done properly or not at all Jane. I concur. Thomas Fudges, hats off to remarkable biscuits. Okay, can I use the auspices of this podcast to just say congratulations to my really beautiful, lovely, talented sister who has got an etching in the Royal Academy Summer Exhibition? Isn't

that lovely? The whole family is super, super proud and it's really beautiful. Shall I show it to you? Yes, please. I was only thinking I've never been to that. Oh, well you must go. Yeah, well now I've got every reason to go. Yeah, so they're two... So my sister is a huge nature lover and she's a gardener by profession and she does these really beautiful etchings of birds and these are spotted flycatchers.

My goodness, that's amazing. Isn't it? Isn't it sweet? are spotted flycatchers. Oh my goodness that's amazing. Isn't it? Isn't it sweet? Spotted flycatchers. And it is a tiny tiny etching so when you see it hung amongst all the other pictures it is diminutive in size but it's really beautiful. So I just want to say well done Susan because it's just a lovely lovely thing. And how do you get in it? What the Royal Academy, the summer lovely, lovely thing. And how do you get in it? What, the Royal Academy? The summer exhibition? You submit.

So, I mean, there are thousands and thousands of submissions, and then there's a kind of judging panel, and they decide, and I think they just try to go for a cross-section of every kind of art. And you have to be an amateur. Yes, I don't think it's open to the professionals. Right. Yeah. She must be very chuffed.

Yeah, we all are. We're super proud. Yeah. Right, sorry. Just say to my sister, any... No, don't. Come on. No, don't.

We are honestly, we are, I mean, she would say, she would agree with me here. There isn't a shred of artistic ability anywhere in my family. Okay, but you've made up for it in other ways. Thank you. Yeah, well you have. Yes, indeed. Laura has been to Halifax. I mean, people really do get about and she sent us one of the... it definitely goes to the top of the charts of depressing postcards. Oh, that one was terrible. Brutalist.

But why would the town think, oh yeah I tell you what this is the best way to sell ourselves. Come to Halifax, have the time of your life. On a recent visit to Halifax in Yorkshire I was really heartened by this image of the gibbet and its first recorded execution which was back in 1286. It went on presumably to slice and dice many unfortunate souls until its retirement in 1650. What a world, says Laura. Well, yes, I will say one thing for the UK. We have now stopped public executions on such hellish facilities as a gibbet or gibbet. It is gibbet, isn't it? I think it's gibbet. Yeah. Laura thank you for that but it's lovely to see that it's still very much on display in Halifax. And to Pauline, what can we say except incredibly

grateful thanks for the bunting. Beautiful bunting. Yeah I'm going to make sure this is strewn across my kitchen in East West Kensington. We celebrate every single evening in that homestead and it'll be even more joyful when I've put up the bunting. Thank you very, very much. Really, really kind of you. Beautiful colours as well. What would you call that? Kind of hot aquamarine I'm going to go for. It is. There's all the blues. All the blues. And a bit of green in there and some purple and it's just incredibly festive. Pauline, thank you very much. What does it say?

I'm just trying to work it out. Handmade by Pauline, I can read that. You'll have to come back with me on that one. Hang on. It does say Jane and Fee. Oh yeah, well I'm not going to take it home Pauline. So Jane was just going to take it home, Pauline. So, James is going to take it home. Sorry, I can't read terribly well, didn't spot my name or indeed my colleagues.

I've done it now. It's because the little bits of the flag were turned the other way round. It's in my defence. I got a good night's sleep last night. Now, could you use your descriptive powers to tell us what's on the front of this brilliant, brilliant postcard from Sandra. Thank you Sandra. This is a black-and-white image of a very elderly grizzled man wearing what clearly used to be a pork-buy hat but has now morphed into something more like an upturned bucket and he appears to be wearing lederhosen I think. They look rather damp and he's also got grotty old

socks on. He's peeling off one of the socks. But she just says, it's always nice when you see your ex doing so well, ha ha, says Sandra on the other side. Very good punchline, Sandra, it made me laugh. It's actually eight-year-old Fred Balchin drying his feet after going paddling with Margaret Lind and Jan Richards. Back in the 1950s, I mean, old Fred was putting himself about there with two lady friends, even when he was in his 80s, going paddling. I mean, I suppose that's innocent enough, but paddling can lead to all sorts of other activities, can't it? Like what?

Sometimes you go in at the deep end. Okay. And on that theme, Wish You Were Here, this comes from Gillesie, it's a very, very old fashioned postcard. So it's got the legend, Wish You Were Here, above a photograph of a completely empty swimming pool. It's just quite weird, isn't it? And in fact, it is the Peterborough Lido. Thought this ticked a few boxes regarding outdoor swimming in Peterborough. Just between the Passport office and Magnificent Cathedral, I'm making the most of the short heated season here. Mothballing is often sadly threatened. Let's not let that happen. Hello to Gina as well. And Gina apologises for the fact that

she didn't realise how big stamps were. They have got bigger. And so she barely managed to get my name on the postcard. It's a picture of the Hay Festival. Can I just say, of all of the things that happened at Hay, this extraordinary explosion of cultural brilliance, the photographs that they've chosen is a drone shot of an awful lot of very big white tents. And it's just not, it's not selling it to me at all. It looks like an Amazon warehouse. By the way those tents really rattled in the high winds

at the festival this year. But is it, she's not wrong, stamps have got considerably bigger, Gina, and it used to be in the old Queen's Day that her very modest stamp only took up a tiny chunk of a card or an envelope. Well, she was a modest person. She was a modest lady, but the King's sprawled all over the bloody place. And actually, some other countries, they have even chunkier stamps, don't they? Do they? Absolutely. What have they got to shout about?

Massive, massive sticky things. I want to say a huge hello to Cathy, who sent us a really beautiful card. Not strictly a postcard, I know, but I love this card bought in Canada where my daughter lives. When we go off on a road trip we set the sat nav to rural routes to avoid busy highways, we put your podcasts on Bluetooth and when we've had enough we switch to bluegrass amongst other things. And her daughter is 54 and Cathy is 84. The McMichael Gallery has a wonderful collection

of Inuit art and this is what's on the front of this beautiful card here. North of Toronto, set in 100 acres of woodland, I recommend it to anybody visiting the area. We love your podcast, funny and informative, it always provokes discussion between us. I managed to visit twice a year, over the last 25 years

my daughter has lived here. We've always spent quality time together and wonder how other long distance mother daughter relationships are maintained. Well, let's put that out there. Yeah, tell us. Because that sounds absolutely lovely and how fantastic to go twice a year

to go and do big road trips together, to be happy in each other's company, to be able to withstand not seeing each other so regularly. It just really, it took on my heart this one, so thank you very much indeed. And Cathy, you make a note about the different voices that Jane used when we get to the commercial section of our podcast, and you're not wrong, no I beef up. And we've got a selection that we dig into, don't we? You can say that again and I'll be getting my shovel out later. Sandy says, I'm loving all the postcard chat. My 18 year old daughter is about to set off on a little interrail trip starting from

Toulouse and taking in Italy and Slovenia. She didn't fancy the famous Garvey Trail heading up into Belgium. I can't think why she didn't. Inspired by your postcard wall, I suggested that she send home postcards from each country. This came back though with a question about stamps. As she no longer has to worry about exchanging her French francs into local currency, she somehow thought the same thing applied to stamps. Now that doesn't surprise me that young people would wonder why you couldn't just fashion just fashion any old envelope with a good old British stamp

why you would need to buy one locally. I am checking in with my colleague. You do need to. You can't just stick the King on an envelope in Slovenia and hope for the best. But wouldn't it be great if you had an international stamp? Why isn't there one? Just a global postcard stamp. A do-it-all stamp? Yeah. Yeah. Why hasn't someone thought of that?

We're going to have to put it on our list. Our list is a very long list of sensible suggestions to help the world turn better. But then where would the profits go? I guess that's why they haven't done it. Well, you could just divvy it up, couldn't you? You'd be able to... wouldn't you be able to tell the whole world these days? You could just click it in and click it out. Oh yeah, well come on, come on world! Yeah, get with it.

Can I do the first part of Sandy's email? Because it's really interesting. Yes, oh yes that is also interesting. But I just want to wish your daughter all the best on her trip. Because we've had travellers out and about this year haven't we Foo but they've both come back home now and I did have a really lovely honeymoon type period with my youngest daughter and now we're back to where we started. As if she'd never been on board.

Almost like she never left. God love her. Do you know I've just been unbelievably impressed with the amount that my son and his friends managed to pack in. I think when when we went traveling back in the day and maybe it's because we simply you simply it was harder to know what was in a country that you could go and visit. It was really hard to book, know whether something would be open, all that kind of stuff. So the access to the technology

and being able to witness all of these places I think means it's actually just much more fun. They just saw so much. I know, they do do a lot. Yeah, I was really impressed, really, really impressed. And lucky them, lucky them, but yeah, it is very, very, very nice to have them home. Are you up yet?

No. Right. Calling in from France and Sandy loves the accents. Would you like all of this in French, Sandy? Oh please God no. Are you sure? Sadly I can't answer your questions about large croissants or football, says Sandy. Neither are very popular in the south west of France where Sandy is sending this from. But I can help you with noise laws on weekends and holidays. Different villages will have different rules but generally you aren't supposed to make noise between 12 and 2 p.m. during the

week and Saturday. Sundays and bank holidays it's only allowed between 10 a.m. and midday so you only have a two-hour window to do all your tile cutting, your mowing and all that kind of stuff. I think that's fantastic. Sandy says this applies to grass cutting,, streaming and building work as today is, here we go Sandy, Lundi te Pentecot. Ecute e repete, Lundi te Pentecot. I'm struggling there, what's that? Well I don't know, it's a public holiday. We've got a public holiday where most supermarkets close at lunchtime if they open at all,

businesses aren't open, you're supposed to enjoy a peaceful afternoon without any noise. It just sounds lovely. So that's just two hours. So you get two hours off from the noise during the week and you're only allowed to make noise for two hours at the weekends. I just think that's brilliant. I wish that that would be happening here. Well that will have irritated this anonymous emailer who says,

Your discussion about the impact of building work really struck a chord. I recently moved out of a big city to a quieter part of the country, and a large part of that decision was because of the constant noise from building work. I think it's easy for people to underestimate how intrusive and stressful the noise from building work is and how much it affects the quality of life of neighbours. For me it was really difficult as I worked from home. There was one point where a neighbour was having a loft conversion and the whole was being knocked through for the new stairs and my entire house was physically reverberating and I had to cancel an important online meeting because I genuinely couldn't hear what the people were saying, even with the volume turned to

the loudest setting. I also have a dog who's anxious around noise, which made it even worse. I didn't find my neighbours particularly sympathetic as they would suggest things like going to work in a co-working centre, which just wasn't practical as it's expensive, and also my job involves confidential meetings etc. I think that's, I mean frankly your neighbours, if they were going to suggest that you go to a co-working centre, they should have paid for you to do so, this is just crazy. And also, and apologies for explicitly saying but just bugger off, you know you're ruining somebody's ability to make their living and it's not as if she was asking for unreasonable levels of quiet.

She just didn't want her house to be shaking so much. She couldn't hear herself on a Zoom call. I gave a few scaffolders a bit of pleasure this morning. Oh, did you? Gosh. Only for us. My next door neighbour rang the doorbell at 20 past eight now. It was unfortunate because my

offspring hadn't come out of her chambers at that point. It would have been more helpful if she had. She could have answered the door. I had to answer the door and I got quite badly sunburnt preposterously over the weekend in Sussex where I'm not joking the high was 14 Celsius over the weekend but I situated myself at the end of a table and I think I'd outside and I think I just got a lot of sun on my face. You see my nose is peeling. It is a bit peeling. Yeah. So this morning I'd got out of bed and I put on some quite thick cream to try and address the burn face. But I'd been up for about an hour and a half when the doorbell rang so I didn't, I'd completely forgotten I'd applied it and

when I opened the door it was my next door neighbour and two quizzical scaffolders who just wanted to address issues about a parked car and then it was only when I went back upstairs did they mirror I thought for god's sake. They probably thought you were heading out to play some cricket, was it a bit Shane Warne? It was, it did look like the late great Shane Warne in his considerable pomp. So it's just one of those things. You know how sometimes I just have a series of encounters with some of my neighbours. I never come off well.

I just always seem to be mildly peculiar or totally eccentric. I don't think they can make their minds up. Anyway, never mind. So I wonder what they would say. And obviously, let's hope this never happens. But you know when people are vox popped about their neighbours who've done some kind of incredibly salacious crime, they always say, catch self to herself. Yeah.

She's from a mild mannered, it seemed like a lovely lady. I wonder whether actually there will be a lot of people going, well, to be perfectly honest. Let me tell you a few stories about her. I'm really not surprised. Well, I don't think applying a lot of thick... ...ungent, what's the word? Yeah, ungent. Ungent lotion.

Would necessarily mark me out as a prospective... Well, let's not go there now. Anyway, did the scaffolders then start because our anonymous correspondent, she was very triggered by the scaffolding gun sound. It's a right racket. Once it starts, you know that you've got at least three hours of various bits of scaffolding going up. I mean, the houses in our street are four stories high. So when the gun starts, it's a horrible sound. You just think, oh god, here we go. So we really sympathise. Let's all leave for southwest France.

Yes, shall we? Merci. I've got all these holidays. I'd love to, actually, but let's not return to that theme because we've got a full day's work at the cold face of news ahead of us. Now funny but not so funny, this one comes in from Olivia who's a fellow cat and greyhound lover so you're extremely welcome on this podcast. I've fallen way behind listening to you she says, I'm currently hearing about Jane enjoying a series of Christmas dinners as I go for a walk on a wintry Melbourne, Australia June 2025 day. Now I have to say Olivia that actually the topic of Christmas dinners comes up very regularly for Jane so

it might not actually date you towards the Christmas area. Stop it, don't say anything about it now. At times I can't help but say out loud as you reference Trump and how it can only get better, it doesn't. in fact it gets a whole lot worse buckle up then today the not so funny moment came when you were talking about the toppling of the Syrian regime and How this may signal the end of the Ukrainian war on account of Russia's inability to defend Syria and weakening resources Unfortunately, this didn't come to pass and months on Poor Ukraine still suffers from Russian invasion and aggression. If you do read this out I may get to it as we approach Christmas 2025 and that will be a gift.

Well, Hark your herald angels, Olivia, and if you are listening to this maybe on December the 12th 2025 what is it that we could successfully and optimistically have predicted that might actually have come true, Jane? Because the world is in pickle juice. Yes. We are still in pickle juice in the summer of 2025. I'm tempted to say as we head towards Christmas we'll just be six months away from England men winning the World Cup.

Okay, we could look ahead to that. But it's hard, Niamh. Yeah, I don't think, I'm afraid I don't think the Lionesses will do all that well in the Euros. Do you not? I just think they're really up against it. I don't think this is going to be their tournament. They seem to be a bit all over the shop as well. They've had a lot of dropouts. Thank you for that technical phrase. I wish them well, I just can't see that they're going to win it.

Listen, I'd love to be surprised. By the way, big news coming, the men won't win the World Cup either. That's my critic. But as we know, my crystal ball has really, I mean, I've chucked it out. It's absolutely useless. Mystic Garve reigns no more. But Olivia, I think, you know, all kinds of things might have happened. I really hope that Canada is still Canada. I think the Isle of Man may have broken away. So we'll see whether that happens. We can't lose the Isle of Man. I had my one and only cigarette on the Isle of Man.

Yes, so you keep telling us. I've led a wild life, though not as wild as this anonymous correspondent. Recently, she says, I've had a couple of dilemmas and I just want you to, this is just a download really and we'd be interested as indeed our correspondent is, on your reactions. I was invited to a hen weekend for a young person in my life whom I love very much. It was a three hour drive away in a house where sharing with three other people in a bedroom was required. Now I'm in my early 50s, they're in their late 20s. Can I just say the older you get

the less you feel like sharing a room, unless it's with a romantic partner. There's something about sharing a bedroom when you get to certainly my age, you'd frankly just rather not. Oh definitely, I'm just trying to think about whether or not that was any different when I was young. I'm still, It wasn't, Jane. Well, no, but my kids are always more than happy to bunk in with a mate. They just don't seem to think about it. Yeah, I never liked it, even as a...

Didn't you? No. Even as a young girl, actually. No, it's interesting. I wasn't terribly keen either. We've both grown up to be completely normal podcasters. So don't worry anybody. My daughter says I really, really, really sleep shout as well. Do you? It's quite funny whenever if we go away yeah and we share a room she's like oh god mom have you got earplugs? I know my actually my horrible children recorded me snoring on a family holiday not that long ago. I'm in my early 50s says our enormous correspondent there in their

late 20s I don't drink and I go to bed at 9. There were 18 of us in total and the entertainment on the Saturday night was life drawing and what do you think the subject of the life drawing was? Oh Naked Man. Well it was yes. Should I be able to say I love you but it's just not my thing and would that be okay? It was all weekend by the way, Friday until Sunday with a lunch at the pub on the Sunday. I've already had enough stick for implying that I'll probably come straight home Sunday morning and skip the lunch. Your thoughts please. Also interested in your thoughts about life drawing. How would we feel about a woman coming to a house where there were 18 men all waiting to draw her naked? It's really blown my mind. What has also blown my mind is that I seem to be the

only person that has an issue with it. Now I can't make up my mind from reading that whether she's been on this event or whether the event is impending. Oh I think it's impending. It's impending. Yeah. Okay. That's the sense I got. Okay.

Life drawing. I'm kind of with our correspondent. I think I'd just be a bit nervous about that and unlike your sister and as I said earlier I have absolutely no artistic codes. But you know that it's not been chosen for people to demonstrate their artistic merit. And I've been literally on that hen party, Jane, with live drawings. Have you? Yes.

Ooh, okay. Yeah, but fertile territory. When was this? A very long time ago. She said hastily. Yeah, about 20 years ago. Long time ago. And I found it really, really excruciatingly uncomfortable and I think the other women there, who were all fantastic, I think they managed to rise above whatever discomfort I found and they seemed to really enjoy it,

but I found it excruciating because I just don't and and please you know gentlemen don't take this the wrong way okay but I just don't I personally don't find it to be an entertaining afternoon just you know staring at men's bits. I mean it's more than awkward. It's so more than awkward and of course because we weren't there for artistic And of course, because we weren't there for artistic merit stamps, you know, it was a little bit kind of gigglesome and then, you know, that's wrong. If you do life drawing for all your proper Leonardo da Vinci reasons, then it's completely different, although maybe he had the odd titter. I don't know. It's a plain fact, isn't it? If any art gallery in the world has any number of female nudes as seen by men and almost always a tiny number of male nudes, very few of them,

painted or drawn or sculpted by women. It's a fact and so we do need to address the balance. Whether it's appropriate on a hen weekend to start that effort, I don't really know. I share all of our correspondence feelings about this one and I wish that there was an easier way of dealing with hen parties because I've been on more excruciating ones than I've been on fun ones because after the age of about 25 I didn't want to get absolutely kiboshed. I've never wanted to learn lap dancing. I don't want to do life drawing. Can you see where we're going? And so I've always felt very commotionally about them as if I'm a kind of, you know,

I'm ruining everybody else's fun by being a little bit po-faced, but I am. No, no, I have to say I find myself in agreement with you and I would say to our correspondent, if it's not, if the event is some months away, I think it's entirely reasonable for you to say, look, I absolutely love you, why don't I take you out for a meal or for a nice bit of lunch on me, but this, I'm just going to ruin it. So it's not for me, but thank you so much for thinking of me. But here's her second dilemma, and this really got my goat. I went to pick up my granddaughter from school last week. Yes, I'm a young Nana, long story. She's six. When I got there, some of the girls from her class and another class were outside

cleaning the tables and sweeping the area, ready for the school fair at the weekend. I initially thought, well, that's helpful of them. I then pointed out to one of the mums waiting that none of the boys were at the weekend. I initially thought, well that's helpful of them. I then pointed out to one of the mums waiting that none of the boys were doing any cleaning. They were inside sitting on the floor watching something on a television screen. The mum said she hadn't noticed it was only girls but now I mentioned it she had noticed. She then said maybe the girls prefer to clean and our correspondent has added about 17 exclamation marks I nearly lost myself at this point I'm probably 15 or 20 years older than that

mum for a start but she just didn't see an issue with it I asked my granddaughter about it she is only six she said the teacher asked for volunteers and only the girls volunteered because they like cleaning more than boys. Another 27 exclamation marks. Right. I wouldn't consider myself an angry feminist, for want of a better term, but I've been blown away with so many females younger than myself, just not questioning either of the above.

Right. Is there an element, I'm going to try and find some sort of explanation, as young girls watch the titivations in the home more traditionally done by women and men, they see that as a grown-up enterprise and they think I might like to do that too. Both my children love to play quotes washing up. And do they wash up now? Oh no. Okay. quotes washing up and do they wash up now? No. So there isn't a correlation then if that's your argument? No, there isn't and they also they did have a little you know a pretend kitchen. But does your ex other half, because he cooks doesn't he and always cooks. He makes a great thing of that. So he's in the kitchen doing things in the kitchen.

I think in almost, I mean, can I just be totally honest, I think in many, many middle-class households, the men do the cooking, don't they? And not just middle-class households. Because it's lovely to cook. And if you can cook, how brilliant is that? But does he never clean up? I mean,, sorry this is personal. I don't live with him anymore. No I know but. No idea. What's that great song? Does he clean up? Does he what? Oh it's Alicia Dixon. Alicia Dixon, we love that song. Yeah. But anyway to Anonymous, thank you, you've given us some food for thought there but I'd give that HEM weekend a definite swirth. Absolutely. Just on the girls and boys and that gender determinism, there was an advertising standards authority ruling, wasn't there, a good

10 years ago I think, saying that cleaning products could no longer be advertised by women. So you couldn't have the here comes your shiny floor disinfectant only ever shown as being used by women. So there was this slew of adverts of men doing all the stuff in the house. And actually, now to the point, it's so common, I don't think we notice it or comment on it at all. Until you mentioned that, I didn't know that that was an official edict. Yep so you can't do that. You would be entitled to complain if you saw domesticity only being portrayed by women in this country which is a great thing. So you would have thought that if the power of advertising is as

great as the advertising industry would like us to believe, then that would have affected some change. I really hope it has. But you and I wrote about this in our in our little book. Did we? We did. That actually some women have made phenomenal businesses out of the fetishization of domesticity and it's fantastic. What a great great thing to have done. So Mrs. Hinch in modern times, obviously you've got Martha Stewart and it goes all the way back to Mrs. Beaton. But I can't think of a man who has made his fortune out of something truly, truly domestic. So not the cookware, your point, not the amazing barbecue grills. But the pure physical graft of cleaning. But the actual graft of cleaning, nasty bits of black mold from around the taps in your

bathroom. That is not, as far as I know, and really I would so love to be corrected on this, that hasn't been turned into a male multi-million pound industry. And I think until it is, we might be stuck in a bit of a chore war groove because where the money goes the habits follow yeah so if you had Greg James's amazing super scrubbing range and don't give him ideas he's got enough bloody enterprises maybe more young men would follow but I love a young man who can clean and who can iron a shirt and all that type of stuff I think also it might be quite good to

sell it as something that is hugely appealing as well you might you know it achieved a little more liftoff if you could put it in that category. Liftoff. Yes. Let's have something childish about beavers. It's from Kath. I'm another longtime listener first-time emailer have we got a jingle for that yet? No. We asked Eve for this. Oh, leave Eve alone. Why don't we just sing? Long-time listener, first-time emailer. I couldn't resist sending in a photo of a poster I saw on the office notice board recently. Please keep me anonymous as I work for a well-known Shakespearean charity.

There are often talks for staff on Elizabethan topics and I thought you might like the sound of this. This month's talk, Shakespeare and the disappearing beavers. Really childish. Thank you, Carol. Right. Where has he put them? And did he ever find them again?

OK. Foxy Love, I think, follows on quite nicely. It's from Sarah, who says, I love them. I surely can't be on my own in the off-air brethren. Admittedly, pre-retirement, night shift for a crisis team in Camden. Good on you, Sarah. Fox residents have said Burrard did seem to have a certain badass insouciance. I love insouciance. Do you know all of the words in Sarah's email are fantastic? There are even better ones coming up.

I don't have the confidence to use that word insouciance, but I wish wish I had. Well I don't really know how to say it. We just have. I don't know, it sounds a bit cumbersome the way we're saying it doesn't it? Yes but it must come from a beautiful French language. Oh look, can somebody explain to me, I was watching the French Open, unbelievable tennis from Roland Garros last week, and they don't seem to say deuce when it gets to 40-40, but why wouldn't they? Because surely deuce is a French word. What do they say?

There's something carante, carante or carante across the board. Oh, 40-40? 40-40. Okay. But I'm sure that they weren't saying deuce. I can't help you there, sister, but that is absolutely fascinating and yes, like you, I would have thought that was a French term that we've nobbled.

But also the umpire gets down because they haven't got the ball thingamajig digitalised yet. So the umpire has to get down from the chair and run over and have a look at the mark in the clay to see whether or not it's in or out. Well that'll be the French unions. It's very exciting. No they've just said no we're not going we're not going that. Oh that's somebody's job they'll all be on strike. You know what they're like. Easy. Actually just it's a bit of incoming sporting information. I may very soon be having a paddle tasting session. Paddle? Paddle yeah I might just see. So looking forward to that. Anyway back with Sarah. My love and admiration were complete. That was the foxes with the badass in Soucience. Could it be that the brethren of Hackney and

Hammersmith are slightly privileged overlords of all London boroughs and therefore somewhat unbearable? I think that's a very strong possibility. Sarah says I live in Pinner. All our Fox dudes are reticent and grateful. In all seriousness I do feel delight and wonder for their patronage in our garden. Also huge sadness that the cubs this year went from three to one. Down with oil bass oil, up with foxy love. Thank you Sarah. We have a guest V. Oh we do. I can always tell from Eve's eyes there's something about her. She's just ever so slightly losing the will to live. We want to bring in celebrity postcard sender Dolly Alderton. Hello Dolly. Hello Dolly.

Now we're doing you quite late in this podcast because we just want you to put the effort in to hear yourself mentioned. If we'd done you earlier on you'd just have turned off but we've waited until quite lengthily, what? Until we're quite some way into the podcast to mention the fact that you've sent us a card sending, I can't read that, something and what? Love and Rum Punch from Paradise. She's been to a place called Barbados, I don't know that. Something and what? Love and Rum Punch from Paradise. She's been to a place called Barbados. I don't know where that is. It does look quite nice. She's taken her dad for his 80th birthday. So far he's got a black eye from falling onto a jet ski.

And this is Golden. He's met 1970s comedian Russ Abbott in a beachside bar. Still alive? Yes, Russ is only, I wouldn't have thought he was anything other than 89, 90. Dolly, lovely to hear from you. Glad you and your dad are having what sounds like a memorable holiday in this obscure location you've chosen. Was Russ Abbott the one with the very orange sticky-uppy hair? I get them all a bit confused. No, wasn't that Freddie Starr?

Oh no, I'm definitely not thinking of Freddie Starr. Russ Abbott's fun house rings a bell. There he is. How old is Eve? 77. He's 77. 77 sprightly. OK, final one from me.

This is from Claire and John. So I'm just going to read this absolutely straight, but when I read it this morning I thought, Claire, I hear you. Here we go. Did Jane and Fee totally amaze that over the last week our little world in Cheshire and the many exploits of John have made so many people chuckle over the airwaves? As you have no doubt realised, John is never backwards in coming forwards and has led a varied life throughout our 35 years of marriage.

Literally never a dull moment. Now, John is the painter who has given us so much pleasure with George Clooney and the Mona Lisa, done a la John. Have we shared yet the image where he's put his version of the Mona Lisa right next to the Da Vinci's original? I mean, it's uncanny.

It's really quite brilliant. Claire goes on to say we've had many family get togethers where John has described a new idea or hobby he's got great plans for, followed by raised eyebrows from the children and expressions of here we go again. However, we all love him very dearly and admire his total enthusiasm for life and giving anything a go. Let's just say his eulogy will be epic. Love the show and the fact that we've given everyone a chuckle. John is now locked in the shed with George and Mona to give the airwaves a little rest. Thank you, thank you for sending that in. We send you both a love. I mean the problem with

locking John in the shed Claire is he's just going to get up to all sorts isn't he? I mean you know there'll be a whole summer exhibition hanging on the walls there. Well we'll next check in with him. He'll have tunneled his way to Uranus or something from that ruddy shed. I would check in on him but he does sound golden. He does. And thank you John as well for just having a sense of humour. Yeah and both of you have really made us chuckle over the last couple of weeks. So thank you very much.

Much appreciated. OK, let's bring in our guest, who today is Steph McGovern. So Steph is here. Steph, welcome. Lovely to see you. Thank you. Lovely to see you both. Well, it's fantastic to have you. TV star, BBC Breakfast, Steph's packed lunch, podcaster, co-host of The Rest Is Money with Robert Peston. And now your novel Deadline.

It's actually out in a couple of weeks,'t it? Yeah it is yes yeah I know it's really weird hearing people saying that. It's out, it's coming out. Yes you've got a coffee I know. Now this is the story of Rose who is a TV business journalist and she is about at the start of the novel to interview the Chancellor live in a secure environment it's actually a place where money is printed. Yes. Well that was a great idea. And then she gets a strange voice in her earpiece actually telling her something truly alarming which is? That her wife and her child have been kidnapped. Right. And she has to do everything that the hijacker, the voice in her earpiece is saying

in order to keep them safe. Okay and now has this idea been hanging around in the darker? Yes, in my head, forever. Where do you think it came from? Do you know it was doing BBC Breakfast, I used to sit on these broadcasts in the satellite trucks, you know the kit that allows you to be able to broadcast from all these wild and wacky locations, you know I was forever in factories or in construction sites or farmers fields wherever it was and I used to sit there between like what you

call your hits on air your little segments and just think about what would we do if it got hijacked because I always think people think telly is a super secure place where you could never get up to the presenter whatever. Don't give people ideas. I know yeah and it's really easy to well I probably shouldn't be you know saying that but there's an element of you know just what would happen if someone managed to hijack it and I just kept thinking about and I kept thinking and what if it wasn't in the really obvious way like a physical way of someone being like grabbed around the head or whatever and I kept asking my different teams like how they would react and everyone's answer was different based on what was going on in their lives so you know and I just thought this is really interesting I just started writing down

little notes about it and thinking about it more and more. Just going back to your BBC Breakfast time where was the oddest place that you broadcast from? Oh man I mean I did some very strict like the top of a crane so I stood for about four hours. Did you have a hard time? I did. Do you know what I've spent so much time in safety gear that someone set up a fetish website of Steph in safety gear. I wish I could say I was surprised but I'm not. So things like that but then also you know just really random like a sewerage unit or like a salt mine or like out in the middle of the sea on a wind turbine. But that was the exciting thing about it

was you just getting to see places that you couldn't pay to go and see. I mean, that was visual. When I was working for Fight5 Live in its early days, there was this obsession with getting out of London. I wasn't from London. I was constantly being sent out of London to broadcast from bizarre places, cattle markets,

meat pie factories, lifeboats. And I'd end up interviewing from that location someone who was in the studio in London. Perfectly cosy, nice cup of tea and I'd be there in all the safety gear and it wasn't even visualised. What was the point of that? Yes I know because I remember when I was on Five Live and I got sent out quite a bit to do like this kind of on the money, step on the money, it was something like that where I'd go and work a shift with people and I'd always be there freezing somewhere talking to like whoever it was Declan Currie or Peter Allen, whoever it was going, hiya! I'm like yeah I'm having a great time.

Can I just say I never left the building at 5 o'clock, I know that. Lucky you. If you've never done an OB from a sewage plant you haven't lived. Oh true. There's still time for fee, we'll sort that out. I'm just looking at the production team. Did you always think that there was a novel in you? Clearly you'd had that idea knocking around but it's the physical business sitting down there and actually doing it. Yeah no I didn't to be honest with you but I am a massive reader. I love crime fiction you know I read loads of like Harlan Coburn

and Lisa Jewell. And I'm very fortunate that Anne Cleves, who created Vera and Shetland is a mate of mine. And it was kind of her who really encouraged me. Cause I kept- Go on, we love Anne Cleves, don't we? Yeah, she's amazing, isn't she? Yes, I think she's remarkable.

But how lovely to hear that she is as remarkable- Oh, totally. When the mic's not on. She's one of those people where you don't even know half of the things she does to like support food banks and reading projects in prisons and all of this community stuff. She does incredible things. And so she's one of life's motivators. You know, she's really inspirational and she kept saying to me, you should have a go. You read loads, you spend loads of time at these writing festivals. You clearly love the genre. Just have a go. And it was when lockdown happened

and I'd just had my little girl. And, you know, obviously we were all then at home and while everyone was making banana loves, I was like, right, I'm going to try and write this story. But the my issue was, I know in my whole career, I've been a storyteller, but my issue was writing it. I just didn't feel confident as a writer because I've been a storyteller but my issue was writing it. I just didn't feel confident as a writer because I've read so many books where I thought I don't think I'm posh enough to get the language right or that type of thing. Those themes do crop up in the book, the idea of this real distance between real communities in particularly the north-east of England and on Westminster, the total disconnect.

You write about that. Yeah, because that's what I've experienced in my life, so and just seeing it from both sides, from you know, I come from a town that's always you know getting slagged off and it's Middlesbrough. Yeah, yeah and it's always the worst on the statistics of everything and and so and actually when you're from somewhere like that you don't know that when you're growing up there, you don't you know you're not comparing yourself to other towns and cities, you're from somewhere like that, you don't know that when you're growing up there, you don't, you know, you're not comparing yourself to other towns and cities. You're just living your life.

It's only until you're thrown into another world, like, which for me was the kind of media and political bubble. And when I was thrown into there, that's when I realized my differences, but also that how that was a strength because you would often get underestimated because of what you sounded like

or you know what clothes you were wearing and that type of thing and that it was the kind of that's part of this story is about my view of like I guess inequality as well but not in that I mean it's not like a big worthy thing it's more just you know we get through a lot of troubles through humor there's quite a lot of humour in there, but also just that sense of underestimate is at your peril and you know, that's the key. I'm really interested in what you've said about inherited wealth because you're not that keen on it. No, I know and this really annoys people. Well, go on, let's annoy people even more. Why don't you like it? Obviously, I'm a business journalist, I spend a lot of time talking about money and,

you know, I've done all right for myself and I've been savvy with money in my career But I just think life would be a lot better Society if we didn't pass on wealth if we didn't if people didn't inherit it and actually into times radio at the most I know I'll be people over like absolutely raging at me But because I think the biggest issue is that how you start life with that inequality, people born into entirely different expectancies and outcomes based on how much money their parents have got and hand down to them. Or in some cases how much their great-great-great-grandfather made.

Yes, exactly. And so I just think, but I also say that from a point of view of knowing people who've inherited a lot of wealth and they're not the happiest people I've ever met. You know, they're like people who have felt in the shadow of that and so I guess it's just, I wonder if it would be a good reset if we just made, I mean everyone would be raging, 100% in Territory Tax. 100%? Yeah and then make it and then you know put it into, well maybe you could choose where it goes I don't know but I just think the way it works at the minute just isn't fair and it just prolongs the problems of inequality. Do you think you could just

do it across one generation you could allow money to be passed down but to Jane's point yeah just not the four generations back wealth. Yeah maybe so you're allowed to pass it down once but then after that you're not. Yeah I think Fee's got the compromise there. Yes I think that is a good compromise and I think because then people will behave differently as well, so people will then hold on to less of their money, they'll start to spend more money and they might invest more in other things and that might be then better for the economy. We need more investment. But also I bet you share this thought that so much of the motivation as a parent to go out to work is about making your children's life better and good.

Yes, but not like for them, like for me, I have purposefully done my will so that my money doesn't just automatically go down to my daughter like when she reaches 18 and I've actually split it out more with other, I mean I've had many arguments with my partner about this but because I just don't think I'd rather she just did her own thing in life and I don't know if I want her to just inherit the house and inherit everything and just because I know what you're saying you want your kids to have a better life but why does giving them all that give them a better

life? Now I agree with that point totally but but I just feel as I feel that I don't want my accumulation of wealth to only be me me me, me, me, me. I like the fact that I'm going out to work to... Yeah, to provide for your family. I enjoy that feeling. But then why can't you enjoy it at the time rather than it being something that is then passed down after you die? Yeah, stuff them.

Okay, thank you, Fee. She's honestly got a heart of gold, IRL. You can pitch in particularly to the Off Air podcast on this subject, because I think it's really interesting this. Jane and Fee at times dot radio. Can we just talk briefly about that? The current chancellor is the first female chancellor. Yeah. Do you think because I sometimes do think this is not necessarily about my politics, that she does get more certainly gets more attention. She gets more negative attention than previous incumbents

of that post. Now you might say she's made some peculiar decisions. What do you think? Yes, so taking the kind of policy decisions away from how she's judged. Yeah, of course, women are judged way more when they, I mean, I saw it myself when I used to interview, like, oh, and still do, to be honest, business leaders, and the women would often shy away from doing the interviews because they'd say, I don't want all that extra scrutiny of people commenting on how much I you know what I look like and what I weigh and things like that and I do think women get that a lot more than men do and I've seen it in practice and it's why we don't have as many women I think who talk about

businesses they're running and that type of thing. On the other hand, the reversal of the winter fuel decision, what do you think? I mean, lots of people say, well, yes, it needed to be reversed. We didn't like it. Then she's done it. And everyone says, oh, she can't. I mean, they're not even consistent. What is the right way to deal with that? Well, I think I'm not a politician, but I think you need to be decisive, don't you?

Unless the evidence is win heavily against you and then you showed clear thinking. I think the thing with Rachel Reeves is she is clearly someone who spent a long time immersed in the statistics of the economy and she's big into all the different acronyms we could name of the organizations that provide all these stats, the Office for Budget Responsibility, the Office of National Statistics. And I think sometimes she might be so heavily weighed on all of those stats, you then lose insight of like real economy things that I see day to day living up in the North East and see the pressures on the food banks. An interesting impact of the winter fuel payments on my local food bank is that a lot of the

elderly people who could afford their fuel would donate that money to the food bank so they've like lost quite a lot of money as well that was donated from elderly people who felt like they could afford it and give their money to the food bank so I just think I wouldn't like to have to make all of these decisions because things are really tough but I'm a big believer in investment and trying to create equality through like educating kids properly and giving them a level playing field in terms of education, not just siloing everyone into groups. You are a great communicator, you do it with verve, you do it with enthusiasm, you're a plain speaker, everyone can understand what you're saying. The plain fact is that most politicians do not have that gift. So tell me about the appeal

of reform in your part of the world. Are they making inroads? Yeah, totally. Absolutely. And they are making inroads because I think a lot of political loyalty has been lost. So in the past, you know, you would get the diehard Labour fans or whatever. And that's always everyone talks about the Northeast and all these kind of red walls and everything else. But now people are not loyal. They have voted. They've changed their voting several times over the last few elections. So they're like, right, well, the Labour haven't done it for us. The Tories haven't. What's the worst that can happen?

Let's have reform, have a go. So there's an element of that. There's still the anti-establishment view, the Tories haven't, what's the worst that can happen? Let's have reform, have a go. So there's an element of that. There's still the anti-establishment view, which is why lots of people in the Northeast voted for Brexit. They're not happy with, you know, all of the control being in Westminster.

And they saw that as a way for that to change, rightly or wrongly. And so it's that view of trying to just say, hang on, my life's not any better. Industries around me have died. And I understand heavy industry needs to be replaced with modern industry if we're going to progress and we're going to grow and everything else. But there is serious inequality and investment in that. So the brilliant Michael Marmot, who is a great epidemiologist, has done loads of work on this. and he was telling me that a kid growing up in the northeast of England in the same deprivation

as someone in the southeast in London will not live as long simply because there's such a lack of investment in terms of public services in terms of you know the job opportunities the schools it's it's a real and until we get that right and it's not just me as a northerner going on about the north-south divide because there's huge disparity across the country, you know, there's parts of Cornwall that are struggling and plenty of other places around the country, it's that, it's just that difference between where the people live who seem to be in charge of everything to do with our money and where everyone else lives, and I don't just mean that geographically, I mean that in sense of services and their living arrangements, the practicalities and the jobs that they have and that type of thing.

Paul says, Steph's a wonderful person. I now donate monthly to my local food bank after a piece she did on her lunchtime show, One Christmas. Well Pauline Favisham, thank you very much for that. Just really briefly, the idea then of Nigel Farage, Prime Minister, perfectly plausible. I totally think so. I think I just do. I think that he is currently talking in a way that is appealing to people who feel left behind, who feel like their life's not got any better, and he's saying things that mean something to them. Always worth hearing from Steph and her book.

It's not actually out until July, so why not stick in a little cheeky pre-order? How about that? It's called Deadline. Thank you. I thought that was quite perfect. Why do you look quizzical? No, I just, I that there was something else coming.

No. Is there anything else coming or is that it? I think I've given all I can. Darling, we are spent. So we'll talk to you at the same time tomorrow. Have a very lovely evening. Goodbye. Bye bye. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and

Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2-4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale, and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.