Off Air... with Jane and Fi - A "fly by the seat of your pants-er" - with Jojo Moyes

Episode Date: February 1, 2023

Award-winning author Jojo Moyes joins Jane and Fi to discuss her new book Someone Else's Shoes.Also they consider what job they'd have done in Victorian times and endometriosis pain.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Producer: Sameer MeraliTimes Radio Producer: Rosie CutlerPodcast Executive Producer: Ben Mitchell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So as we speak Wednesday evening and quite a few people in Britain have been on strike if you're listening overseas this won't mean anything to you but a fair few people have been on strike today but not us. Oh no, we've been here as normal. We've battled through haven't we? As normal as we ever are. But there's been more strike action today than at any other time over the last decade. That's right and I do remember the 70s. The 1870s. The 1870s, yes. There was a lot of strike action. Queen Victoria was very much on the throne back then.

I don't know whether Albert had already... I think he died. Were the carriage drivers out? The carriage drivers went out on strike, yes. How would I have been? That's a truly terrifying thought. How would either of us have earned a crust before radio was I? How would I have been? That's a truly terrifying thought. How would either of us earned a crust before radio was invented? Oh, I don't know.

Oh, dear. But actually, a lot of my mum's family were exactly those kind of Victorian workers. They were carriage drivers and they were housekeepers and seamstresses. And that's what I would have been. And I just would have been terrible. So I'm terrible at doing the detail, so I would have been a rubbish seamstress. Well, also you're short-sighted.

I'm very short-sighted. I'm not sure how good glasses were back in the day. Yes, I'm not sure that carriage driving with a very bad stigmatism and a 3.5 prescription is anybody's idea of fun. But if you'd been involved in an accident with a horse and cart driven by the young feet, well, you would have been relatively young at the time, the young feet lover, you know what you can do.

Well, also, I mean, let's be honest, our periods would have killed us. Oh, that's true. We talk about periods because in Wellness Wednesday, if you're only a person who listens to off-air and not the Times Radio Live show, because possibly, quite possibly, because you have a real job and you've got things to be doing between three and five in the afternoon, we understand up to a point. Although you could just change your job.

There was an item this afternoon on periods, and period pain to be specific, and the new so-called new tech ways of dealing with pain. Yeah, and you asked the very, very good and very simple question, how much pain are we expected to put up with? And I think that lies at the heart of the problem, doesn't it? Well, up until really quite recently, you weren't allowed to talk about your periods. And you just weren't. I mean, people have already forgotten this.

But honestly, for decades, hundreds of thousands of years, they were a shameful thing that nobody ever talked about. So the idea that you've been in a lot of pain was just something that a lot of women just had to suck up and young girls, because it's not only recently that girls have been starting their periods at primary school. I gather that really has been happening for quite some time. Every family, every family is slightly different. And some girls were starting their periods at nine or 10 and not having a clue what was happening to them. And it must have been so difficult for them. And pain does vary. And obviously, some people are better at dealing with pain than others. But yeah, because we weren't able to acknowledge our pain at all, really. And Helen has emailed to say period pain is still not taken seriously. And

the item with the doctor stating just do what works on your show today did have me quite frustrated. What if nothing works? When are women and girls going to be offered a more investigative approach to pain? The suffering endured can be devastating. And most of my secondary education was spent in a school medical room, only to be told by my GP, it's just period pains. At 30, I was diagnosed with a cyst, an ovarian cyst the size of a grapefruit. At the time, I disclosed this information in my mostly female place of work

and found another four women who also had similar cysts removed and they all described them as the same size. These apparently started growing at an early age and I came to the conclusion that this is the length of time girls and women can tolerate the symptoms before it becomes a problem that seriously affects your health, fertility and your life. You do get fobbed off by being put on the pill. I'm now faced with an attendance policy from my children's school

that states pre-menstrual pain as not an acceptable reason for absence. This is included in a list alongside shopping trips and holiday. Right, Helen, I understand exactly what you're getting at there. Sorry, she says, I realise this email is very hour of the woman, but you never shy away from that and I'm always grateful for it. Well, we're not going to shy away from any of that stuff here either. We've no reason to. No, but I'm really interested by that.

I'm not sure that that's right, Helen, that a school can say premenstrual pain isn't a reason for absence. I would be livid if I saw that written down. And it's also just a really, it's a very poor understanding of female health yeah i mean what i know a young woman who's had um endometriosis and it is it absolutely devastating endometriosis it's a disability yeah it's excruciatingly painful and it really can bring you down at a time in your life when, until you get that diagnosis, you're very young, you don't want to be basically confined to bed for a week every month. It's utterly

ridiculous. So I do really understand what you're getting at, Helen. And we want this to be a place where we can talk about all sorts of stuff, including this. But by the way, I think our doctor was very well-meaning, Robina. I don't think for one minute that she wanted to dismiss period pain at all. And she did acknowledge that she doesn't really, she doesn't see the women who, quotes, never have them, although apparently they are out there. Yeah. And also she said that she is only seeing women and girls in her surgery who have kind of come to the end of their tether with over-the-counter prescriptions.

So she's not seeing a lot of women, who I suspect have for their whole period lives, put up with unbearable pain and not thought to go to the doctor. So it's a good thing that more women are. And Helen, I don't want to add to your list at all, but do you know what? If you've got anything else that you can tell us or show us about that

list from your school, I think we'd be quite interested to see it. And I wonder whether other people have a similar parental experience. I just think that's terribly, terribly wrong. Shall we go to our beautiful, lovely, thoughtful and funny big guest and save the other emails for afterwards? Yes, because i loved her too that's the author jojo moyes so she was in today to talk about her latest book which is called someone else's shoes and it's hard to underestimate you wouldn't want to underestimate her success because her books have been translated into 46 languages they've sold over 50 million copies they've been made into successful movies and she's just one of those wonderful people isn't she where she's still given all of

that success I think really curious about other people's lives and lots of other things in life and I always think you might get to that stage of success. I mean, apart from anything else, financial success, where you kind of move into a different zone. Maybe just, you know, you're carted around by Palomino horses, drinking only the very, very finest soya ass milk. And you don't really connect with the normal people at all. But Jojo seemed in touch with her human side, didn't she? Very much so.

So she was in to talk about the book. She was in to talk about her lovely dog. She was in to talk about her lovely dog. She was in to talk about anything, really. And she began by telling us about the time, as you do, Jamie Oliver offered to help her out of a flooded Ford. So our part of Essex is quite remote. And there was a narrow lane that I had to drive through that had flooded. And this lane was quite notorious.

And I got some way in and realised that I might not be able to get out and I had my newly arrived Bosnian rescue dog in the back and as I was trying to do a 16 point turn in this narrow lane to get out of the flood and a big black Range Rover came sailing through the deepest part and stopped to ask if I was okay and it was Jamie Oliver and i he said would you like me to drive your car through i think you can do it and my car my dog promptly had an accident in the back of my car and so i said no because i couldn't bear the thought that jamie was going to get in and drive my car full of poo yes and um but he gave me a massive tip which was he he said i drive at 12

miles an hour the whole way don't deviate and that will push the water away from the wheels and i did it and i got through so thank you jamie that was a great tip that is a tip who knew and the next time i'm in a flooded ford i will use that well just you know then you'll whip up the simple tomato proviso it might depending on how deep it is obviously okay right well we will talk much more about dogs later on during this interview too and if anybody has any questions it's eight seven treble two start your message with the word times right tell us about the shoes and the importance of shoes at the beginning of your latest novel okay so at the beginning of your latest novel. OK, so at the beginning of my latest novel, two women, two middle aged women in very different situations, but both at a point of crisis in their life, accidentally swapped gym bags,

one of which contains a pair of high heeled Christian Louboutin glamorous shoes, the other which contain a pair of kind of pretty exhausted flat black pumps one belongs to a kind of very wealthy trophy wife who's just discovered that her husband is about to divorce her and the other belongs to a woman who is British squeezed trying to balance the needs of elderly parents daughter depressed husband bullying. And it's what happens to their lives when they are literally forced to walk in each other's shoes. And yeah, I don't want to say too much because it's quite plot heavy. It is quite plot heavy. And it's always a danger, isn't it? When you do, I would imagine when you do a promotional tour to know how much to give away

and tease and how much to stop so you don't ruin the book. So I'll leave that to you because you're the professional here. But where did that, that little spark of the beginning of a story come from? Usually I get them from the news. Usually I get just little snippets that lodge in my imagination, then I can't, either it's a question that seems to have no obvious answer, such as in Me Before You, which was the question of assisted dying and what was right. In this case, I'd written a short story involving a woman and a lost gym bag, something like 15 years ago. And it had been one of these stories that popped up in various sort of meetings with studios and production companies that I had, where people asked if I could extend it or do something with it and I could never see it and then one day I literally found myself thinking well what happened to the woman whose

gym bag got picked up and as soon as I saw it as like a Vanity Fair type escapade or Desperately Seeking Susan if you remember that film where two women uh their fortunes keep crossing then I saw it and then I wanted to write it and a bit like many people during the pandemic I just found everything a bit much and I couldn't read anything too depressing or challenging and so I set out to write a book that was a bit more uplifting than usual and a bit more fun. Do you know the endings before you start at the beginning? I have an idea because I found that, I mean, writers tend to be planners or fly by the seat of your pantsers. And I like to have at least a couple of twists in my books. And I find that if you don't plan, you can't navigate your way to

the twist because you need your reader to forget something in order to be surprised by it later. So I am a planner. Yes, I knew roughly where we were going to end up but there are a couple of extra twists at the end that i didn't know till i wrote them i was surprised i mean given the fluidity of your writing that you had three novels that weren't bought that were rejected before the first one was it sheltering rain yeah uh was was picked up and then there was a flurry wasn't? And it was bought at auction and that must have been gorgeous and wonderful. But those three unpublished ones,

have they then turned into novels? Were they then published? No, they're rubbish. I mean, honestly, I had to learn on the job and I think I learned what I was doing by writing those three. I mean, it was crushing at the time. I thought they were good at the time,

but now I look back and I realise that there's a whole lot of things they were lacking, but they taught me about pacing, they taught me about creating characters, they taught me about building a world. And I honestly think if I'd had my first book published when I wrote it, the unpublished one, I wouldn't still be here.

You said earlier that you've got a lot of your ideas from news and you were a student in London or part, Surrey, is of Surrey? Is it Surrey? Egham. Egham, yeah. Is that Royal Holloway College? Yeah, I tried to get in there.

It's a very pretty building. Yes, it is a pretty building. Anyway, well, not that I spent any time there. But you worked... Jojo, you've hit another. It's a fraud. Well, no, it's just I've been living on the Bulls Pond Road in rented accommodation. So there was a contrast. And so I went to look at Royal Holloway and went, oh, my God went oh my god i want to live here yeah well it is gorgeous down there anyway um while you were

there you worked as a student on the egham and stains news i did now can you remember the first story you did yes i can it was about a vine that had grown because the owner had poured a pint of beer in it every day and i had to go along with the photographer and write a piece. And that was my first byline. And I remember sending it to my parents who were slightly less whelmed than I was. I thought it was amazing I'd got this story published and, yeah, I think they were less excited than I was.

So it's a vine of grapes? Yes. Really? I suppose it is relatively warm down that way, isn't it? Maybe. I mean, who knows? So that crossover between news, because you were a journalist for a while. 10 years. Yeah. And writing a novel. What is it? Not every journalist has got a bestseller in them. Plenty of journalists write. No, I, what is it? I think the thing that writing for news teaches you is to see stories

everywhere i mean when i did my nctj training one of our jobs was we were given a page of the old a to z and told to go and go away for a day and find two stories from that page and that was brilliant because it teaches you to look at a street and go what's going on behind the curtains of number 72? Why is there a car door open in a car that no one seems to be visiting? You know, you just start to see things. And that's always come back to me. And I always say if I sit in a room with two people,

I could get four novels out of them. It's just a matter of how you look. And I think that's what journalism gives you. And the to write to deadlines which not all novelists have so presumably one of the joys for you as a writer is to be able to take yourself and your readers off to different worlds but are there ever times when you wish you were writing a series and you know like a crime writer would so you had the same character to build the story well I did that um i didn't intend to write a series but after i wrote me before you um and then i wrote the film script i found that i started dwelling on what might have happened after the event i don't want to say what the event is

but as a journalist i was always interested in the story afterwards like what happens to the chambermaid who finds the body that kind of. How do the people cope with the aftermath of the village fire? And so I ended up writing two sequels to Me Before You. It became a trilogy. And it was really hard, because it's that thing of how to reintroduce certain storylines and characters in a way that isn't kind of saying, and here is the thing from last time you know without bashing people over the head with being obvious yeah but also to make it interesting to those who might not know the previous story um and also i just i don't know i quite like doing something different every time so i don't have any i mean i'm sure it's great if you like i know lee child a bit and i

think to have a character like jack reacher who you know so well who you can revisit again and again must be fantastic but it's not for me. Jojo Moyes international best-selling author is our guest this afternoon her latest novel is called Someone Else's Shoes in previous novels though you have taken the reader all over the place uh will you tell us a little something about Kentucky and the world that you entered there because reader all over the place. Will you tell us a little something about Kentucky and the world that you entered there? Because it just sounds so wonderful. Yeah, I mean, the Kentucky book,

I'd seen a group of pictures online of these pack horse librarians from the 1930s. And immediately I had to write the story. I knew I wanted to write. I like writing about women who do things, you know, capable women. And so I flew over to Kentucky because I knew I had to be there to absorb the language and the smells and the sights. I'm a big believer in going to the place that you write about.

But beforehand, I did some research and discovered that the place I was headed for was the opioid capital of America with a kind of catastrophic crime rate. And I was quite anxious about going. And I'd found a place that rented out cabins on the mountainside. And I went with my best friend. I took her along with me because I just didn't want to go alone. And I thought it was a red state, so it was going to be very Republican. And what I found was completely different I mean there is

a lot of poverty there there are a lot of problems but the people were welcoming and charming and funny and huge storytellers in the way that you know you go to some places and there's a great oral storytelling tradition they were very funny um I fell in love with the landscape it was a place i totally didn't expect to fall in love with but it is i think my my favorite place in the whole world and i went back three times while writing the book in different seasons because i wanted to experience what the women would experience riding across that landscape at the same time so they were delivering literacy weren't they on horseback yes they were delivering literacy, weren't they, on horseback? Yes, they were. The Appalachians have always been one of the poorest and least literate places in

America. And under Roosevelt's post-war program, they wanted to take knowledge to these remote families in order to combat snake oil salesmen, religiousism um and religion yeah i just listened to this story and i thought this is a modern story this is a story about truth and facts and um and these librarians would often ride up to 120 miles a week over really harsh terrain and often to families who didn't want them there um and they would take comics they would take comics, they would take recipe books, they would take, you know, factual literature as well as fiction, but they became beloved of the community that the scheme lasted seven years. And in that time, they they made a huge difference to literacy rates there, women, especially because women were largely, you know, barefoot and pregnant. And there was a lot of

societal issues, shall we say going on in those in those communities and unfortunately it was cancelled after seven years and I think there is still a huge problem with a lot of the same issues but it brought knowledge to people who needed it especially with regards to mining in the local community which miners were a very badly abused sector of the population and this gave them information to help combat some of the worst excesses of the mining industry dolly parton has done a massive job hasn't she on literacy projects she is an extraordinary woman she's made sure that i think families get free books for children up to the age of seven or something but she has funded so much

good in that country i think she's's, yeah, she's great. Phenomenal woman. You mentioned your friendship with Lee Child and some people, if they were going to talk about lady writers and gentleman writers, they'd probably put you two at sort of polar ends of the scale. You both sell by the truckload. You're wildly successful.

What do you talk about when you're talking to Lee Child about writing? Oh God, I wouldn't dream about talking to Lee about writing. What do you talk about the weather? I talk to him about the other stuff to do with book publicity and yeah I did a book tour with Lee at the tail end of 2019 and it was it was in the brexity period and we what we were trying to do with Ken Follett and Kate Moss as well was just reinforce links with European countries and say that, look, this political thing may have happened, but we still want cultural links with you. Lee is a man of kind of few words, but all of them are good ones.

He's basically Jack Reacher, but thinner. He speaks in those very short sentences. Yes, he does. And I think it took me about three days to kind of understand who he was and where he came from but i i adore him uh the stories i can't tell but he is one of the kindest and most he's just a good person in a way that a lot of people who reach that level might not be good and he has a literacy program doesn't he at the university of sheffield

yes i think he's the sponsor of it but i will say this whole tour given that lee was more stratospherically successful than almost anybody else in the planet no no but i was going to say he did the whole tour with black tape over a bomber jacket because he couldn't be bothered to repair the rip or get a new one and he has his clothes sent to every hotel he has the same suit sent to every hotel so he doesn't have to travel with stuff. God, he is Jack Reacher, isn't he? I think he really might be. We can't let you go without talking about dogs.

They're such a huge part of your life, aren't they? They are. This is by no means to hold you in any sense responsible for what seems to be happening at the moment with just very, very bad dog behaviour with some really tragic consequences as well but you've got two rescue dogs you've had other dogs in your life too what do you think is happening is it just that we've lost the connection lost the sense of responsibility you don't

understand what we're doing i think there is a huge problem with people buying dogs without understanding their needs they buy them for um their looks or and often you know dogs that have been overbred in puppy mills may not they may have genetic problems but i i actually met up with a dog trainer who'd been helping me um change my dogs to a less rural way of living and he he said i would never take eight dogs at once it's too many because once one is triggered and the pack mentality takes over you you can't possibly hope to control eight dogs you just can't um and i yeah i think people really need to i mean rory kethlyn jones and his romania i think has done such a valuable service in showing that you have

to go at a dog's pace you have to understand that not dogs are not always going to be able to pay and also not many people walk them enough I'm a great believer in Cesar Millan's thing which is you walk first then discipline then affection and I think a lot of us get it the wrong way around and I see so many dogs who just don't get walked enough. Yeah. Just in case people don't understand the reference, Rory Kethlin-Jones has adopted a dog from Romania, a rescue dog called Sophie. And he's been detailing her antics on social media.

And for about a month, she's just been behind a sofa. Yes, she has come out lately. Yeah, I mean, my Bosnian, my first Bosnian rescue dog, it's taken her three, it took her a year to be comfortable in more than one room in the house. I mean, she was terrified of everything. And of course you don't know their backstory, do you? You don't know their backstory.

And you have to understand that you're taking on an unknown. But also be committed to it. You know, you're taking on a member of the family. And so I feel like you have to do your work. And it might not be the pace that you want to work at. But that's who they are. That's what you've agreed to take on. Now, Jojo, you have said that you don't think you've ever been relaxed in your entire life. You're very bad at just chilling. Do you think that's going to change? What do you think about retirement? And as a woman getting older woman getting older well no I don't think you're

not there yet but it's on the horizon but I think I think it's a female thing as well I think from the moment you start having children you're kind of calculating what time you have to do in what you know it's like when they're small babies and you're like I've got half an hour while they sleep to kind of clear up the chaos of the front room. And that never left me. And I think my parents both had a ferocious work ethic, and I probably inherited that to my detriment. I've had to really, you know, I got divorced and my mum died three years ago. And those two things, along with overwork, kind of did for me.

And I've had to completely readdress how I live my life. I don't relax, relax, but I do walk my dogs for an hour and a half, two hours, pretty much every morning, and that, to me, just is relaxation. It settles my brain and it's joyous and, yeah. But aren't you thinking about plot lines and potential... No, I'm not.

But I am thinking about step count. Oh, yes. So I think it's so deeply ingrained. How many are you on? The other day I did 16,000, which felt like a lot. I'm anywhere between about 8 and 12 most days. You're doing very well. That's very good. But there you go, you're doing it too. I know, I'm quite obsessed.

It's so ingrained, this idea of productivity. I walk up and down the stairs to try and get 10. Yeah. The author Jojo Moyes. It was a pleasure to meet her. And in case anybody's wondering about the reference she made to Granny's tights in the garage, that related to a story we had from a listener on a previous podcast.

Yes, and it was about discovering a hoard of her grandmother's old tights, or stock, no, tights, wasn't it? Which the Granny had kept was but the box was marked and this is the significant bit what was the the mark on the box gusset too low yeah but she'd get them just in case as you never know ladies when you might be thinking oh if only i had a pair of tights with a low hanging gusset and i I saw a lovely idea that one day that woman might have met somebody else and looked her up and down and said, I'll tell you what, before going, I've got this box.

Just the thing for you, Daphne. Happy Christmas. Chris just wants to say, great to hear Jojo Moyes talking about the fantastic women who were the forerunners of mobile libraries. Just explain that. So in researching one of her earlier books, Jojo became really interested in Kentucky and the Appalachian Mountains and this incredible group of women called the Pack Horse Librarians of Kentucky who did what they said on the tin. They were setting off on horseback across the hills and valleys of Appalachia, delivering literacy to remote communities.

And their impetus for doing it was because they didn't want the kind of snake oil mysticism of misinformation to really grab hold in remote communities. Thank goodness we don't have that problem today. It's extraordinary, isn't it? It's actually very depressing, isn't it, to think we probably could do with them again. Yes, I thought that was really interesting. So Jojo is someone...

I mean, she said herself, didn't she, that she travels to places and she actually bothers... This is one of a number of reasons why I've never written a best-selling novel. Because it would have to be set in... That sounds like quite a lot be set in Crosby. No, or West London. At Euston.

Euston. The forecourt? It is the forecourt. I spent so much of my life there. Chris says, give librarians a shout out. They're great advocates of literacy. Absolutely. Love libraries, love librarians. I think that's a truly wonderful

thing to do for a living actually a fantastic thing right we've got a very lovely email from caroline and caroline says hi finjo and your discussions around male only whatsapp groups brought to mind a conversation over the festive period we had invited five cisgender heterosexual couples round and after a lot of food and drink the women found themselves huddled together chatting about a dad from school who had been widowed about two years ago. My husband, soon to be my ex-husband

thank you for your podcast that has brought much laughter during this challenge in time of him being apprised to it absolutely no problem at all said, oh can I be one of the girls and join this conversation? None of us said no. We continued with the chat around how the dad in question had started seeing someone, how we were delighted for him. And then we moved on to his wonderful traits of warmth, kindness, being an amazing dad and how charming he is. However, he wasn't in any of our eyes physically attractive.

We had at this point more than a few glasses of fizzy wine. My soon-to-be ex later extolled his astonishment and disgust at our comments. And when I retorted, so you've never commented on women's looks with friends, he has, I've witnessed it, there was a deathly silence. Would anything change if men thought of it as when the shoe is on the other foot? Probably not, thinks Caroline. And as you suggest, the conversation needs to be sparked by men with other men. And Caroline goes on to say, I was also surprised by the golden shower in Sam Smith's video. I love it.

The set, styling, costumes, dancing, all are fabulous. However, the imitation of the golden shower felt too fruity for me, knowing that my 14, 12 and 10- 10 year old boys may well see it they still find rshp relationship sexual health and parenthood your kids called it feelings at school squirmful my initial thought was they don't need to be exposed to this sexual act i don't know whether i'm glad to be alive at a time when you can read out a sentence like, I also was surprised by the golden shower in Sam Smith's video. No, Caroline, thank you for that.

And I'm sorry to hear that you've been having a tough time and the husband is soon to be ex. And that's not easy for anybody to go through. But yes, it's interesting, isn't it? I can't believe that he was surprised that women have the temerity to comment on somebody else's looks. And I'm acutely aware that i'm not a supermodel myself um no no don't darling don't be silly no not but i do i have i have the absolute audacity to talk about the way other people look it we are all as humans very very weak on this i think i think we just simply have to acknowledge it don't we um i'm not trying

to comment about i'm sure I've commented in the past about other women's looks and I certainly think nothing of dissing a man's look. So none of us should ever do it. No, you're right. We must stop. Shall we stop? What on earth will we do? I don't know what we'll do. Perhaps we could just stop doing that.

No alternative now at the weekends. Right, you know what you can do? Excuse me? It's a bit rude. Jane and Fee at Times.Radio, if you've got anything to say about any of the subjects discussed. Also, we did discuss in the live radio show, because we want people to both listen to the podcast

and maybe just be aware that there is the live show two hours a day, four days a week, which you can catch up on, can't you? You can catch up on it? You certainly can via the Times app. Yes. And sometimes you might just be driving at that time and it's worth just having a listen in. And we did talk to Amanda Brown, who's a doctor at a female prison in the south of England. I think it's the biggest female prison in Europe.

In fact, it's called Bronzefield. And she was our inside job representative today, just talking about her working life. And I thought that was, I mean, it's just a slice of life, not an easy slice of life, but she had real compassion for the women there, didn't she? She really spoke very warmly about them and the challenges that they face.

So that's worth a listen. It really is, yes. So we will speak to you tomorrow. We're live at the Destinations Travel Show at Kensington's Olympia, but we have already discussed tomorrow's events today

in a podcast that by the time... But will be available tomorrow. Yes. And then it will feel like yesterday. It's like soup in my head. It's like a soup of days. It's certainly one of my thicker soups. I tell you what, just by the time we get to five o'clock tomorrow, would you be able to just point them in the direction of the door

and say it's all over now for the week, go home? Well, it is all over, except that we're having some photographs taken on Friday, so it's not quite all over. Oh, God, we are, aren't we? So, do you know what, kids? That's worth looking out for. Jane and I are doing a fashion shoot.

What do you say, worth looking out for. Jane and I are doing a fashion shoot. You say worth looking out for. Right, enjoy your evening. Yes, good night. Good night. Good night. You have been listening to Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast

executive producer is Ben Mitchell. Now you can listen to us on the free Times Radio app or you can download every episode from wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget that if you like what you heard and thought, hey, I want to listen to this, but live, then you can. Monday to Thursday, three till five on Times Radio. Embrace the live radio jeopardy. Thank you for listening and hope you can join us off air very soon.

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