Off Air... with Jane and Fi - A ledge of bosom (with Eluned Morgan)

Episode Date: June 11, 2025

Fi is struggling with some listeners' names — apologies to anyone called Linda... Jane and Fi also discuss potent wees, manifesting people, and dyslexia. Plus, Wales' First Minister, Eluned Morgan, reflects on her career, outlines her priorities for Wales, and shares her thoughts on the spending review. If you want to contribute to our playlist, you can do that here: Off Air with Jane & Fi: Official Playlist - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3qIjhtS9sprg864IXC96he?si=9QZ7asvjQv2Zj4yaqP2P1QIf you want to come and see us at Fringe by the Sea, you can buy tickets here: www.fringebythesea.com/fi-jane-and-judy-murray/And if you fancy sending us a postcard, the address is:Jane and FiTimes Radio, News UK1 London Bridge StreetLondonSE1 9GFIf you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] next book club pick has been announced! We’ll be reading Leonard and Hungry Paul by Rónán Hession.Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It appears to have just the most enormous kind of one bosom, doesn't she? Just the ear. To be honest, I'm heading in that direction myself. A ledge of bosom. Well, there is an age where you go from individuals to just one happy gang. Yeah, to just one amorphous thing. I'm sorry, Union might have something to say about that. Overstep the line. I'm one as well. Who knew that the Pogo stick was still in so much operation?

I've actually been, I don't know, they're rather sweet these Pogo emails, aren't they? Because the Pogo stick has come into its own. Well, it has. Here's one anonymous. I noticed a girl using a pogo stick recently in the park. She confirmed it had been hard to learn how to use it, but once she found the knack, she finds it great fun. I was interested because my grandson, who's autistic, finds it helps regulate and calm him,

and I've never seen anyone else use one before and that is not the only email that we've had detailing exactly the same thing but actually for kids who are on the spectrum the pogo stick seems to really really work. This one is from Deleth who says my daughter has ADHD and loves her pogo stick whenever she needs to get rid of some excess energy or if something has annoyed her, she has a good bounce on the pogo stick and all is well again. If only my problems were solved that easily.

Well, Deleth, I mean, pop on the pogo. It was a bit stiff to start with, but with a good glob of grease. That's lovely, isn't it? A good glob of grease. And my husband jumping up and down on it, the springs loosened up considerably. Again again if only all of life's other problems were so easily rectified I've attached a picture 2025 pogo sticks also look funkier than they did and the PS is delightful Eve our Fox has diarrhea too. It's a worry isn't it? Do you think that's veganism? Do you think because there's so

much vegan waste around, especially in Eves part of town, I don't know about Deleth's, but especially in the Hackney area, there's quite a lot of high fibre diet. Maybe the foxes are benefiting. I did read an email suggesting that foxes keep down the rat population and I'm grateful for that information because my fox was back, top of the shed, loud and proud this morning. And is it a beautiful fox or a mangy fox? I'm going to say mangy because it, but it's also, it was just doing its normal, it was doing a morning grooming routine on top of my shed. The Endora were looking on a scance.

This is sort of relatively early, 6.30. I'm going to call a council. I say that but I won't get through and I don't even know which department to ask for. And I don't even know what I ask for. Pest control. You go to pest control and you fill out a form saying that you believe you've got an infestation. And a pest control officer will be in touch with you. Momentarily. Road world trodden listeners. Or in many months time. So I shouldn't take weeks off work waiting for them to come around. I don't think so. No, I don't think so. But I think it is worth trying all these very, very helpful suggestions we've had from people about lemons and chilli flakes and things

like that. And mail urine. And yes. So do you want to do mail urine? I haven't got mail urine to hand. We'll get to it kids. But it's basically someone saying that their husband just took a great big long morning wee where the foxes were coming in and they don't like that at all. The neighbours don't like it much. Oh here we go, it's from Ginny. On the subject of fox deterrent tactics, my brother-in-law I'm so sorry, my brother-in-law swears by taking an early morning wee at the end of his garden each day,

a location apparently favoured by the local fox community who tend to gather with one eye on the family rabbit and his hutch on their decking. That must be horrible for the rabbit. Heard somewhere that male urine acts as deterrent for foxes who think another male animal has already bagsy that particular spot and they give it a swerve. He says it really works and does this daily, despite my sister's horror at what the neighbours might see. Well, Jenny, I mean, if nobody's complained yet, presumably they're enjoying it. It has to be that first morning wee, does

it? Jane, I'm at the boundaries of my knowledge about male urine here I don't know. I mean we all know that that first one of the day is certainly a necessity whether long and loud a special potency I don't know and I'm talking about the ladies as well here just to be clear. I'm interested in this from Erin she says you may have seen the recent TV shows about dyslexia there was Chris Packham for the BBC and Jamie Oliver for Channel 4. Now whilst I'm very pleased to see that the complex issues surrounding dyslexia identification, assessment and

support are being discussed I am interested in the fact that we seem to need famous men in the public eye to bring it all to the public's wider attention. It's interesting that isn't it? I've been working in SEN says Erin for a very long time and I would say that about 95% of the teachers, specialists, researchers, lecturers and parents that I interact with are women. I know it was a while ago now, but I did want to thank you for that interview you did with Lisa Lloyd, who talked about her experiences of raising an autistic son. It was really good to hear a real mum on your podcast. Yes, Lisa was particularly good actually, wasn't she?

She was somebody who's an excellent communicator and fun as well. So I'm sure you can find that episode of Off Air with Lisa Lloyd if you track back. I'm not disappointed by the fact that it's taken two famous men to bring dyslexia to the public's attention. They are both brilliant and I enjoyed the programme. However, the programmes I should say. However, I do sometimes feel that ordinary mums and teachers are hugely knowledgeable and don't have the same platform. I'm not referring to myself here she says. Yes it's a difficult one because look let's be honest these programs get made because of the famous person element and it's not always a man but I take your point. It must be a

bit frustrating if you've been ploughing quite a lonely furrow in that in that field for most of your working life. What do you think, Fee? I completely agree and it must be very frustrating and it is part of that wider problem, isn't it? And we've touched on it a tiny bit when talking about race across the world, that actually what's remarkable about one pairing involved in the competition, the mother and son, are that you just don't really see very many mums who've stayed at home to be that linchpin of the family being given a lot of airtime on TV. And I think it's really difficult. I mean, it just isn't fair. There are so many people doing astonishingly good

work and that is their career, that is their life, that is of value, but it's not shown because it's the professional people who get the most air time. But I do, I like, I know that Jamie Oliver has his detractors and when I saw the trail come up for his program about dyslexia I think there was a a tiny bit of me that went oh blimey love, more. But actually I think he's done such an important thing because there are so many people who immediately go into the well you've done alright haven't you mode. Which is true. Yes, but when he explains the agony of his childhood you think well, I mean nobody wants their kid to bounce high in adult life just because they

were so low in childhood. Yeah, no. I mean, that's not... And also, he's an exception, clearly. I mean, he's a wonderful and brilliant exception. And I will be forever grateful to him for... I mean, a couple of his recipes just took me through my child-rearing years. Oh, I think he's wonderful.

I think he pushed a door open, didn't he, for... He did in Bruce Gouldin's, there's no doubt about it. A certain type of cook. He just also told me that I could just take the stuffing out of a sausage and add it to a tin of tomatoes and a bit of red onion and create magic. But to our correspondence point, I think we should try very hard, shouldn't we, here on this podcast and on our programme to always give a voice to people who we think, oh look, that's a life that needs amplification.

So if you've got any suggestions along those lines, then bung it our way, because that's one of the joys of two old biddies being allowed on in the afternoon, isn't it, to talk to each other. Nobody thought it would work. But it's going OK. It's going OK. We've got permission. Just alright. Live-drawing are my ex's tackle. Now, this just made me laugh. Have you seen the PS on this? I want you to, you can do this justice, gone. OK. Well look, let's do the body of the email first. Can we just say we've got a very senior political

guest on the podcast today. We have, we've got the First Minister of Wales. That's the First Minister. Yep. I'm glad you like the Holly McNish poem as much as I did, says our correspondent. I thought it was a great example of the other angle we can take on the often doom-laden news. I'm prompted to write today though about life drawing at hen parties. I did life drawing for the first time when I was 16 and still at high school and it was my warts and all introduction to the naked male form literally in your face. However, my friends and I were all surprised to find that when your interest is in the drawing there is nothing more than a few brief minutes

of feeling uncomfortable before you quickly forget what you're looking at and start studying it as you would any other object as a combination of lights and darks, forms, lines and textures. For that reason a conventional perfect body is probably the least interesting to draw. It is the folds of fat or protruding bones, the worn or wrinkled skin and a sense of the weight of life's experience shown in the posture or the expression that provides the best challenge. Given that serious drawing is unlikely to be the focus at a hen party, it seems like a pretty tasteless laugh at the expense of someone who's hopefully used to being appreciated

for managing the really quite difficult job of maintaining a position for extended lengths of time. To get off my high horse and share a laugh, I only briefly found life drawing embarrassing again when at the age of 18 my then boyfriend was the life model for another class I took and my friend positioned herself right up front and did a huge close up of his tackle. I suspect she was not doing this with the highest of artistic attentions. Both he and she are still my friends 30 plus years later though. That's just a delightful email and thank you for sending it. And the PS is... Yes, what is the PS?

So I struggled through your name because I was worried that I hadn't pronounced Galeria or Gal-er-ea, Gal-er-ia, properly. But actually it just means art gallery. Galeria Madulce is my work, it's an art gallery. I'm Linda but I'm happy to remain as just Galeria Madulce, especially when sharing stories about my ex's tackle. Oh dearie me! Sometimes I can just be so stupid, I don't know. It's lovely to hear from anyone called Linda and anyone called Galeria. And if you want to send an email, then hear me struggle through...magazin. Magazine. Magazine. I'm happy to do that.

She's very flexible. Sarah says, prior to my wedding, I'd been to some terrible head nights and I knew that my hens had various incomes. And actually this is something you've got to bear in mind isn't it? If you're organizing a mass event you've got to understand not everyone has got the spare dosh for a huge thing. Totally and I'd say the same about weddings, 40th, 50th and 60th. Call it tigers. Yes, yes, just ease off. So, she says, and I do think this sounds good, we went to a sing-along sound of music dressed as nuns. We then got a limo

to a youth hostel in Essex, then we went for a jaunt to a pub the next day still dressed as nuns, followed by a barbecue. It was absolutely great. Well, you packed a lot in there. And I think it's a bit of light dressing up and a trip to a youth hostel. Yes, you went in a limo, so that probably wasn't cheap. But it's something that most people could probably really look forward to doing. And without thinking, oh, no, I'm really going to be up against it at the end of this month if I go to that weekend. And it's just it's no fun, is it? No fun at all if you think you're going to go into the red by taking part in something that's meant to be a laugh.

Yeah, I think be wary, be wary, be wary. We can't name the correspondent. Listening to you talking about life drawing on a hymn weekend, I thought you'd like to know that the architect practice my husband works for, and I did not know this, did you? Has a life drawing session every week for architects? No, but I don't know very many architects. I was appalled and intrigued to hear of this. I'm told it's because architects are fundamentally fine artists who wish to keep up their skills,

even though they all now draw buildings on computers. The whole thing's funded by the company. I can't bring myself to inquire whether they're female or male models, or indeed whether female or male architects attend. But based on so much else I hear about this industry, I think all our assumptions could be well placed. I honestly didn't know that architects kept their hand in with a little bit of life drawing. What do you think the audio workers equivalent would be

if we were going to have something to keep our ears in at the end of the week? Do you think a string quartet should come and perform in the corner of the studio? Just do name that tune. Something like that. In order to keep our ears really perky. We are hoping to have genuinely a jingle for a long time listener, first time emailer. I asked Fee if she could perhaps conjure up something on her oboe. I just think it'd be very sad, Jane.

Well, it would be, but... It would end with a reedy... Yeah, but we always want to be just that, you know, bit distinctive. OK, well, I'll get out my garage band tonight. You may call it garage band if you want to, and that's the difference between us. I actually do say garage. Do you? OK.

I'll get on garage band tonight. Is there a geographical garage garage? What do you mean? A split across the country. Is it garage up north? I don't know. Wendy I really love the format of your email things and thongs would love to send a beautifully crafted long email but I honestly haven't got it in me so some comments. Here we go. I've never read anything Sarah Vine has written and never will as she can be very nasty. That's a mention because... How do you know?

Well because excerpts come up all over the place and people tell you about stuff don't they? You're interviewing her aren't you? Yes, she's on the programme on Monday of next week. Yeah. And I'm still knee deep in her book, How Not To Be A Political Wife. What's the matter Eve? She's on the program on Monday of next week. Yeah, and I'm still I'm still knee-deep in her book how not to be a political wife What's the matter? She's okay. So do apologize. I'm doing the interview on Monday. Sorry I said that with such confidence which was a hint that I was bound to be wrong She's going to be on the program on Thursday of next week and you'll ask her exactly that about being nasty about other people

Yeah week. And you'll ask her exactly that about being nasty about other people. Yeah well yes because I mean there is this category of female journalists known as the Wednesday witches who just used to have a column on a Wednesday we've talked about them before remember Jean Rook? Yep. Just horrible on the whole. So anyway and also actually we had an email asking what's happened to Jacinda Ardern she's on the programme next week, isn't she? Oh yes, I've set that one aside to read out anyway, but can I just do some more of Wendy's? Go on. Because it's just brilliant. I bought the Leverett book for my sister, she's very happy.

I then saw a hair in the field on the way home. Do you ever go through phases where you are just manifesting things that you talk about? At the moment, my daughter and I, we're manifesting people. We have a conversation about someone we haven't seen in years. And? Up they pop, literally, up they pop. Wow. The next day, in the Lido, oh hello. All kinds of things, just really spooky, like the universe

is turning in your direction. Gosh, you're a good old star. You'll be back in Bromley before you know it. Oh, well, one of our correspondents did send us an email from Bromley saying how nice it was and I completely agree. I mean I'm sure it's very lovely both in my previous life and now. I think that's why I feel a kinship with Bromley. Might well end up there. My dad who's 89 and entitled to do what he wants with his money has planned for years about leaving us an inheritance in his will. We're now all grown up and don't really need it. It would have come in very handy about 25 years ago though. That's off the back of the conversation with Steph McGovern yesterday

who thought that... Well she just fundamentally doesn't believe in inherited wealth and you said, and I thought this was a good idea, you said why can't we introduce a law? I'm going to call you Red Fee from now on. Wait, you can only pass on the money to one generation. But as people have pointed out, that would be hugely complicated to administer. People would find workarounds. What about family businesses? What would you do?

But I have been thinking about this and I speak as someone unlikely to come into money but I probably, I'll be honest, will have some money to leave. So it's a puzzler isn't it? It's a huge puzzle and I completely understand where Steph's coming from because she'd like to level the playing field because what you see all around you are people who've had that immense, immense head start in life and I mean in a way you and I have because we've had that immense, immense head start in life. And I mean in a way you and I have because we've had parents who haven't been in debt, who haven't lived on the poverty line, all of those things and I recognise that about my life hugely. So I really understand where Steph's coming from, I

think she feels it far more viscerally. But a huge part of my motivation for coming to work, Jane, is because I do want my kids' life to be okay. So I don't want to fear. I would feel just strange, just really strange if all of this was just for me and then going back to the state. I totally get that. And I also... They're not spending it awfully well sometimes. Sometimes well quite, yes, what's the spending review today? High excitement here in Times Towers, I can tell you that. A very noisy office

wasn't there? A lot of testosterone. We were quite glad to come in here and talk to you to be perfectly honest. Now what was I going to say? Oh I know, you know that line that people trot out and it's so worth bearing in mind if you're in any danger of taking yourself too seriously, your children's grandchildren won't know your name. Now we should all bear that in mind, but it does strike me that there will be some people living high on the hog on the strength of what their great or even great great grandparents did. That isn't fair and I think Steph is definitely onto something there.

Yeah, I entirely agree with that. But what we do to change it, Lord knows. And you'll meet these people, won't you, from time to time, who live in these immense houses with immense wealth and they've chosen to do with their time, I don't know, just, you know, design a new style of chair. I would be interested in what other people think about this. You know, Redfee and frankly slightly pink Jane are a bit puzzled about what we do about, as Steph was suggesting, just levelling the playing field.

I know we never can 100%. Well, it's kind of what inheritance tax is meant to do. Yes, it is. Yeah, it is. But I mean, we know that's a difficult issue. We've had some very interesting emails about farms, didn't we? Anyway, let's just throw it out there. Yeah. Thomas Fudge's entrance had me howling at the time and then again when it was mentioned last week I'm moving on very quickly to I was going to send Jane a lovely Crosby Beach coastal last week but it was five pounds and I thought better of it. I never buy thongs, I want

my money's worth. I'm so glad the fake grass is gone. Well, Jane's still got hers, it's only mine. I live in, can't pronounce it, Magal? Magal. Magal. So don't have a purple bin. Liverpool areas are either sound or posh. I've emailed several times but I've used the wrong email address. Well, Wendy, you've absolutely nailed it this time round and I like your bullet points. Thank you. Yes. Just a quick shout out to Sarah from Eaton Manor Rugby Football Club in Wanstead. You were talking about the English women's football team not doing terribly well at the moment. Well please don't forget that the English Red Roses rugby team are odds on to win the Rugby World Cup in September. I've enclosed a picture of my rugby mad daughter supporting them with her mates at Twickenham a couple of weeks ago

It's a great picture. They're all wearing their red roses having a fantastic time. They've got red roses around their heads I bet that's a good day out actually England women playing at Twickers. That's a good look. Yeah, it's a very very good look And yes, the best of luck to the red roses. We are properly good at rugby union. Come on! Nan and her swing ball. We're very good at swing ball too. This comes from Julia. I felt I must share this photo with you of my darling Nan. Nan was amazing and lived until she was 95. She was widowed very young and lived alone until she died. She was an amazing lady who loved nothing more than getting her swing ball out on a summer's evening and playing alone.

Isn't that just lovely? It's just lovely. She had a heart attack in our car at 92. She was furious that we took her to hospital because she'd missed the Wimbledon final, hitting me with her walking stick and telling me off for making a fuss. Nan had a shed running the length of the house, the side of her house, which she always called the back passage and never understood why we laughed whenever she said the swing ball was in her back passage. We all miss her dearly, we now have a granddaughter named after her, so we get to use her name every day. Oh that's so lovely Julia and I bet you miss her and there she is in her garden with a lovely gazebo in front just waiting to give the swing ball a great big meaty whack. So I think swing ball and the pogo stick are our sports. I think if we were ever going to do a kind of off-air fun day out, it would be that. Come on a pogo stick and enjoy our swing ball.

And none of us can choose how we're going to leave this earth but I think having a relatively quick exit, kicked off by a heart attack in a car but you're still full of enough fervour to thwack someone with your stick on the way to the Aussie, it's probably alright isn't it? I wonder whether it was one of those really really amazing Wimbledon finals as well. You'd be so pissed off, wouldn't you? If it was Andy Murray, finally, in the Wimbledon, you'd be so angry. So, so angry. I'm with you now, Julia. No one wants to make their exit as the fifth set starts at Wimbledon. And a plucky Brit has got a chance of victory. I had no idea that so many people, a hobby had a go at doing the Mona Lisa and I've been genuinely touched by the activities of so many of our amateur

artist friends and Anna who's aged 49 and three-quarters, no age at all, has sent us her version of the Mona Lisa and I was gonna say Mona isn't looking looking a little pensive. Longtime listener, first-time e-mailer, if only the jingle was ready. I write in solidarity with John and the ridicule he suffers in pursuit of his metier. When the interminable lockdown had us in its grip I was forever searching for ways to keep isolating family members entertained, so I turned to art, sometimes imagining scenes of daily life that captured the zeitgeist, think vaccination queues and socially distanced

barbecues. And other times, with all imagination drained from me, I resorted to facsimiles of the masters, please find attached, my Mona Lisa and one of my other favorites, Van... I'm gonna say is it Van Eyck's? A Nolfini portrait. They did the trick and five years later I'm still drowning at the clamor for more from a considerable band of fans. Well I'm not at all surprised you've built up so many admirers for your efforts. I have to say, because I'm not familiar with the Arnolfini portrait, I think that's actually properly brilliant, that one. What's wrong with that? It's, I'm going to say it's people from the Middle Ages engaged in a sort of courtly pursuit.

The man's wearing a large hat, the lady has a white dress. Oh, she's with child. I think she's, a large hat, the lady has a white headdress. Or she's with child. I think she's, unfortunately for her, fallen pregnant. We're not going to ask. Maybe it's a happy pregnancy, Jo. It could be, but it was tough times. You would deserve a way to. You might be blissfully happy. You might be a nice bloke.

Well, I think it's on. No, he is. He looks, he's certainly got a big hat. And there's a furry creature there. I on. No, he is. He looks, he's got a big hat and there's a furry creature there. I don't know what that is. There's a small furry creature and what looked like a pair of sliders just to the left of the image of the man with the hat. Well, and that's allegory for you. What do sliders tell you? The Mona Lisa is just wonderful because she appears to have just the most enormous kind of one bosom. Doesn't she? To be honest, I'm heading in that direction myself.

A ledge of bosom. Well, there is an age where you go from individuals to just one amorph gang thing. So we can add that to the list, couldn't we, of things that we're going to make just the off her tube. But also her smile is quite something, I think you've really nailed the eyes, but her smile suggests that she's had a very good day. Let's pop it off. I think actually she's just put, I mean, like me putting on lipstick, it's absolutely chronic. No, truly terrible. Oh, dearie me. Final one from me comes in about builders.

Now this is just a little bit of magic. It's from Suzy Walker, 72, sent from my iPhone. God, they just never miss a trick, do they? No. I've always found it very annoying. You know, you could change that at the beginning. Can you get rid of it? You can.

Yeah. So, for a while, I think mine did say so from my shitty Samsung. Hello, my lovelies. Twenty years ago, houses were being built just beyond my garden wall. They played very loud pop music from 7.30 until 4.30 every day plus shouting and swearing. I'd been really helpful, first aid given and nice. So felt I could ask that they turned down the radio which was met with ridicule and abuse.

Now firstly, I'm a cow disguised as a lamb and secondly, my son had a DJ kit. Out came his speakers. On went opera, full blast. Out went the cow for four hours. Builders were not happy but they sent the manager to speak to me, full blast. Out went the cow for four hours. Builders were not happy, but they sent the manager to speak to me. Cowards. I stopped the opera and they turned down their radio. Laham returned and continued with first aid. Why do people mistake nice for weak?

Listen from the very start to your giggles and chats. Well, Susie, we are on your side and well done you. I would also never mistake Nice for weak. No. And also she'd given first aid to the builders. Well I'm horrified to hear that they were so contemptuous of you. And just so thoughtless. Who's our guest?

Our guest is the First Minister of Wales. Eleanor Morgan is the UK's first female Labour leader. She became First Minister of Wales in August last year. The pace of politics has not let up since. Recently Morgan has said she's losing patience with Keir Starmer's policies and has promised attack to the left, not least to counter the growing threat of reform. Nigel Farage took to the photo opportunity most recently at Port Talbot, promising to bring back blast furnaces if reform came to power. Well, Ellen of Morgan is with us in the studio now. It's lovely to have you here. Does that mean that your patience has been a little bit restored

in secure starmer's policies? It definitely has. It was getting very difficult to defend the situation and to be fair, this was the situation we inherited from the Tories. What they did is things like the HS2 line that was defined as a Wales England project despite the fact that not an inch of track was laid in Wales. How did they get away with that? Well exactly how did they get away with that and the point is we then didn't get a consequential amount of funding, but Scotland did. So it was just completely unfair. And this extra money now,

you know, there's 350 million in the next three years, goes a long way as a first step towards correcting what's been a long-term injustice that we have to suffer under the Tories. What will that injection of money actually mean to somebody living in Wales at the moment who's just a little bit fed up? Well, I'll tell you what it'll mean. It'll mean they'll be able to get around better. It'll mean first of all that there'll be lots of jobs associated with building new infrastructure, new stations, putting in laying tracks. You know, all of this is money that actually the

UK government, it's not what they call a devolved area, they just have starved us of money. But this extra money now will allow people, for example, to get to work quicker, to be able to go and visit their families. And so there's an opportunity and all of that is really critical in some parts of Wales. We've got concentrations of people that are a long way from their jobs. So you've got to get the real infrastructure right. We've put loads of money in ourselves as the Welsh Government and we've transformed the bits that we're responsible for are miles better and they work really well. We've spent

£800 million of our own money. We've got brand new carriages and loads of them were made in Wales and these are all good jobs in Wales. So we've done our bit. It's great now UK government is starting to recognise they haven't been doing their bit. You got a name check there from Rachel Reeves as being a key figure who has helped to get this across the line but you have been critical of the Labour government. You've said that you want to tack to the left. You've described the Labour Party as a messy family. So how do you feel that your relationship is going with them? Would you make those same statements today? Look, we needed to see some

delivery and I think we've started to see that delivery. As the First Minister of Wales I'm always going to be asking for more, that's my job. So I'm not going to apologize for that but there has been this historic underfunding. The other thing they've done today which is really great is they've recognized that they're going to give us a lot more money to clear the coal tips. We have about 2,000 coal tips left over from the industrial change that happened. And everybody in Wales remembers Aberfan. And the problem is that climate change means that those tips are becoming unstable.

Because of heavy rain. because of heavy rain. Because of heavy rain. And so we need money to correct them, to make them safe and it's not a small amount of money and we're saying hang on a minute this is all pre-devolution why should we carry the can for all of this because it powered the Empire. So we need a chunk of money from the UK government and to be fair they've given us some additional money not just before but they've given us an extra big chunk of money today as well. So that's all good news heading in the right

direction. Why would you want to tack to the left if in fact your biggest threat is reform which is appealing to people further on the right isn't it? So you're assuming that reform is the threat. In Wales there we have Plaid Cymru which is a nationalist party and so we have to take on board the fact that there is a threat also from the left. But do you feel the heavy breathing of Nigel Farage? I mean he has directly, he's gone to Port Talbot, he said the Welsh Assembly is in his sights. He has staked his claim hasn't't he? Look, I welcome Nigel Farage back every week if we see the mess that he makes like he did yesterday. It was unbelievable saying

he's gonna reopen coal pits in Wales. You know, you can imagine all the grandparents thinking, I don't want my kids to go back down the pits. Is that the feeling? I think so. I think Wales is looking to the future now. You know we've got this industrial heritage that we're really proud of. You know he said that the the steelworks are shut. It hasn't shut. In fact it's just going to be totally modernized with an electric arc furnace but recognize that we've got to recognize that climate change is happening as well so you know but there he was saying oh I'm gonna reopen the blast furnaces and everybody knows that that's that would be a really really big

ask and would take billions upon billions of money so look you know he came and made a real fool of himself so he's welcome back anytime. What about the threat that you face from Pligh Comrie How do you think that you will better be able to challenge that? Well I tell you how we'll better be able to challenge it is by delivery and what's been difficult is we've had 14 years where we've had austerity, it's been more difficult to deliver but last year we had the biggest uplift we've had in the history of devolution in 26 years, massive amount of injection of money and what that means is we've been able to bring the

weightiness down, we've been able to put that extra money in, we've been able to build additional homes, we're filling 70,000 potholes, we're doing the things. The first thing I did when I became First Minister last August was I just went out and listened to people across Wales and I went... Did your ears bleed by the end of it? Well it was it was really good because you can imagine you know politicians oh online people are vicious absolutely vicious but actually when you meet them face to face people want to engage in a serious conversation and they did have things to say. So I came back and set out the priorities that I'd heard from the people.

So I'm totally focused now on the NHS, on making sure we've got, we're producing quality jobs. And I've been with the Japanese companies today, seeing if they can bring more jobs to Wales, looking at how we can give opportunities to everyone, in particular in relation to housing and education, and making sure we see that transformation when it comes to travel. What does a Japanese company say to you about the reasons why they would want to come to

Wales or why they wouldn't want to come to Wales? Well, we're celebrating 50 years of Japanese companies being in Wales. In fact, my brother worked for Sony for about 34 years. So this is something that's very real to us. We have a Japanese school on Saturday because we have an agglomeration of these companies and we want to make them feel welcome. And do they still feel welcome? It's a very interesting point you've made there. Now in the current climate where a Westminster

government is saying we all depend on growth, we want people to come to this country, it's not been going particularly well. What's the tone that a Japanese investor uses to you at the moment? What does that tell us about where we are? I think what they're interested in is making sure that what they're entering into is a stable economic and regulatory environment where they know they've got access to skilled workers and I think that's where government actually really comes into its own. You know that's what we've got to provide and there's real interest we're going to be hosting an international investment summit in December to make sure that there's real interest, we're going to be hosting an international investment summit in December to make sure that there's a really big flag up on Wales saying we are open for business and we're

looking to the future. Got a question here from Dave in Cardiff and you alluded to this, you said that when you go out and actually meet people face to face it's normally fairly cordial but Dave says I want you to ask your guest how she copes with the constant online abuse she gets in Wales. I've got to admire the fortitude of all our elected representatives in the face of name calling and worse. So people can be absolutely vile. You know, the abuse is dreadful and probably worse for women. But I tell you how I cope with that is I just don't look at it. I you know, it's there. I know it's there. but as long as I don't see it, you know, I

have other people checking and making sure and I post a lot online but I think you've got to protect yourself. You were the youngest member of the European Parliament at the age of 27. What does youth bring to that role that age and experience might not? Ah well that does seem like a long time ago now but I think it was really important at the time to go in as the youngest voice in the European Parliament to make sure that when they were considering issues that actually there was a new perspective. So I remember being there and we were starting to discuss you know this thing called the Internet. You know nobody had heard about that and it's just that

younger people kind of latched on to that much quicker so we were able to kind of start using emails and things much quicker and and to reflect the fact that actually, people who were older never quite came to terms with that. I went to the Lords actually after that, and that was quite interesting. They used to be brilliant at the 100 years of history that happened in relation to foreign affairs, and I could tell them what happened yesterday

because I've got Google. So it was just kind of, I do think it's really important just to make sure that we're not just looking through one lens. We've got to think about the entire public. And what would your 27 year old self think of the the landscape of politics at the moment? The strong men really have won across a lot of the world and their policies, you know, I don't want to be gender determinist about it, but they carry with them an aggression

that's just, I think, stating a fact. Would your 27-year-old self have thought that could never happen in my lifetime? Is what we're witnessing now just a blip? What is it? I mean I think when I first went into politics you know it was still very much a male-dominated profession so you know you had to you know there was a situation where where you had to compromise if you wanted to to to actually get on. But you must have thought it was going to get better. I did and I think it has got better. So just to give you an example, in Wales we went from the worst representation

probably in the world in terms of women to one of the best, because when we established the new senate, the assembly, we brought in a new mechanism to make sure that we had equal gender representation. And it was a bit of a bloodbath to get there, but we did it. And it changed the way that we do politics in Wales. So I think we've got to celebrate actually the fact we've come a really long way in some areas. Now you're quite right in some parts of the world it's not going quite the way that I'd hoped but I think it's really important for us to celebrate and also to recognize that the next generation people like my daughter just

won't tolerate any nonsense. They're in a different world again. Well we wish them well don't we? Thank you very much indeed, it's lovely to meet you and thank you for the tiny chocolates as well that you've brought us. Would that every guest did Jane. I know if only. There are some perks to being the First Minister of Wales because you'd spent some time at the Swiss Embassy today hadn't you? You've got some big Swiss balls. So we're very grateful. Thank you very much. No thank you very much, lovely to meet you. Eleanor Morgan who is the First Minister of Wales. On a similar Women in Politics tip, Stevie got in touch about our Jacinda Ardern interview.

It hasn't happened yet, Stevie is a long-time listener from New Zealand, So that will go out on Tuesday of next week and Jacinda Ardern has got a memoir out at the moment and it's about her desire to keep kindness and empathy in the business of politics. So Stevie I'm going to hang on to your email and I will actually put it to her and there have been some reviews of the book which have, I find them strange actually as well. There are so many politicians who when they write their memoirs write a lot about their childhood and their influences and not all about policy so I don't think that Jacinda Ardern has done something

completely different by writing a lot about her childhood and not hugely about the policies. So we'll tackle that in the interview and like I said it goes out on Tuesday. And I just wanted to mention Lisa who is living in New Zealand where she says it's winter but still warm and sunny, hope you both well. Lisa thank you, I know you have written before but she has just this time written in to talk about maintaining relationships with family when you have moved away to a country let's be, as far away from the UK as New Zealand. She's been through a few tough challenges, has Lisa, moved to New Zealand in 2001, not intending to stay, but I have

a good life here and I've got two children. My parents and I are close, I'm extremely lucky that they love travel and they love coming to visit me here. I should say her mum and dad are 82 and 87, and they arrive mid-January every year and leave mid-March. They've already booked their next trip for 2026, and she just says it really works for them. Life isn't rushed or time limited to catch-ups. My mum and dad spend the day at the beach here in New Zealand,

then we have a beer each evening together and chat in the garden whilst watching the dogs. They can pick the kids up from school, have an ice cream with them and then drop them home. The kids love it. 15 minutes of grandparents and job done until the next day. Small and meaningful moments rather than long meals and gatherings in somebody else's house." She does say it is quite significant that when they come they are able to stay in a different property so they're not actually all living together. But it works for them and she finds that it's just a real lovely lovely couple of months every year and of course they avoid the worst of the

British winter by going to New Zealand. It sounds magic doesn't it? Yeah, long may it continue Lisa, thank you for that. So it's extraordinary when you think about where your children's lives may take you. You know, if you look back in your own family history to where previous generations' lives took them and so that's the shape of your family and it's all going to come in the future too. I would be so, so upset though if my children ever, ever thought about moving to West London. Jane and Fiat Times got radio. They should talk to you tomorrow. Jane and Phee at Times. Radio talked to you tomorrow. Well, I doubt they'd be welcome.

Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.