Off Air... with Jane and Fi - A not-much-to-be-ashamed-of appendage (with Jeff Stelling)

Episode Date: November 7, 2024

Has anyone got a normal shaped carrot?! Apparently not, and we're OK with that! Jane and Fi muse on tingle or dingle, single gins and diet tonic and face bras. Plus, football broadcasting legend Jeff Stelling discusses his memoir ‘Saturday Afternoon Fever’. Our next book club pick has been announced! 'The Trouble with Goats and Sheep' by Joanna Cannon. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi Podcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

But I'm sure Jane did say dingle on the pod yesterday. You did. I may well have done it. It's tingle. Is it? Yes. It is tingle. Yeah. Because it comes from Christ.

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Experience more at sea with Norwegian Cruise Life. For more information call 0333 222 6513. Contact your travel agent or visit ncl.com. We've moved on somehow to November the 7th 2024. I'll tell you what, we do live in interesting times, don't we? We live in very interesting times. We're in something of the bubble of the spirit level at the moment, aren't we? I guess so.

Because we are absolutely respecting a huge democratic process that rolled into action across America. A massive turnout, Jane. I mean, it puts our turnout to shame. What was the turnout? I think it was bigger than last time. Last time was 69.7. OK, yeah. So it makes our election look like half-day closing, doesn't it? Well, yes, in that case, I'm very embarrassed that I think it's about 40% of the British

population didn't vote in July. Honestly, I've said it before, I don't get it. I don't get why you wouldn't turn up, even if you vote for a fringe candidate or a wants to raving or whatever it might be, at least get down there. It's not an enormous ask. I agree. So Australia, I think, and Julia and Brisbane, hello. You can correct us if we're wrong, but you've got mandatory voting, haven't you? Yeah, I have. And I think it just makes sense Jane, surely it makes sense. Because there'd always be a button that you could press where you were

non-committal. So, well I presume that's the case actually, our Australian correspondents can maybe tell us, you know, whether there's a none of the above in your digital imprint and whatever, because I think they're digital now too. I might be wrong on that though. Did you get as far as the Kamala Harris 9pm GMT speech last night? So I did, yes. And interestingly, there were a couple of people who I was having a bit of a WhatsApp chat with at the time and they were watching it too and there was a real split down the middle as to whether or not that was exactly what was needed. Hope and optimism and a bit of joy and just not too much kind of banging your head on the

table stuff or whether it was the complete opposite. What did you think? Well, I think the term class act has been applied to her performance and that's exactly what I got from it. It was slick, it was emotional at times, I think you could tell that she'd been through the ringer. Oh she looked so, so unhappy. Yeah and she'd put herself through the ringer. Her body language, of course. Yes, I think every woman watching it, I am going to say every woman watching it, will have felt for her in that sense. And it was measured and it was, she's a good speech maker, she's actually rather good. And she's become better because I guess she's been making speeches now for,

what is it, 14 weeks. She was never going to urge her supporters to go and do any harm or do any damage or get angry. But she's just urged them to get back to it and keep chipping away, which I'm sure they will. Although I think it's fair to say there were lots of people in the crowd, weren't there, who just looked sad and a bit disenchanted. And, you know, I mean, we've had lots of emails, haven't we, from people in the States, Claire in California. Our worst fears came true. My family, friends and I are devastated

and truly quite afraid for what comes next. How are so many people in this country fooled by misinformation and lies? How are so many people willing to give up democracy for fascism and be ruled by a narcissistic sociopath and his oligarchs? Claire in California, I'm sure speaks for many, though of course as we now know not for everybody there are millions of people who feel that Donald Trump is their best bet and you know as V said earlier this is a democracy, millions turned out to vote, millions have put their

faith in that man and we've got to we can't just wring our hands and go woe is us for the next four years we've got to try and understand it and work with it. And the Democrat Party has to find a really, really effective series of leaders, I think, not just the one, but people who are going to be able to really talk to all of the communities of America and provide an effective opposition. Because no matter how optimistic you might feel about Donald Trump at the moment, if that's you, or how much slack we should all be cutting him, if that's not us, the one thing that you definitely need is an effective and believable opposition

to challenge in the right way, in the right places. Because his go-to playback is just to say, you're making it up, it's politically motivated, you're wrong, yadda, yadda, yadda. And people have to come back with more than being affronted by that. We know that that... And don't patronise people. ...is what he does. So, you know, we just need fact. And it's, you know, there's got to be somebody and you and I were saying this so long ago, so long ago, in a country that big, if you'd

like to stand up, it doesn't matter if you're at the back, stand up so everybody can see you. You would, you would hope that forthcoming are some leading lights. And actually I'm quite interested in what happens within the Republican movement too, because obviously MAG has won this, but it was not a happy ship. Not all that long ago, Jane. What are you saying? So, you know, there's a difference of opinion there too. So there's a lot to watch, isn't there?

But I do think there's a real danger of the Liberals, you know, and we make no bones about it. That's probably where we are just making so many mistakes and errors of judgement in the way we perceive people and the way we think they're going to think. But why does it matter that we're wrong? Why is everybody wringing their hands about being wrong? Well, because I think it's just part of life and you accept it. I'm inclined to, I don't know enough about America, I think I am inclined to lump people together and to make, I believe they are going to think a

certain way and I have, I mean as one of our emails has pointed out, I have no personal experience of living hand-to-mouth. I have never known a day of poverty in my life whilst not coming from an especially privileged background. And I think in America being poor is, I was talking to J. Mar Kerrins a little bit earlier today, you know, people, she says the country is very conservative and it's all about cash and having enough cash. And in Britain, there's the comfort blanket of our welfare system. We don't have as much money, but nor do we need to fear not having quite enough money because there is a degree of protection built in.

We've known it all our lives. But it was every kind of person who voted Trump in. And that's why, that's what I mean about me thinking, of course black men will vote for Kamala Harris. Well, you know, who am I to make the I don't know enough I am looking at it from the also by the way I threw a radio across a room quite literally this morning an old-fashioned transistor because I heard a white man saying that he didn't think misogyny had played any part in Kamala Harris's failure to be elected. You just think, how do you know? And what on earth makes white old men think

they can possibly have a view on this? Well, that's not- Did I sound angry there? That's not a problem that we can leave in America, Jane. No, I was, well, he was a British man. God. So there are lessons to be learned all over the place. But can I tell you what I am finding it already just a little bit tiresome is the hand ringing of I didn't get it right.

And just... Well never mind that. We just didn't get it right. This is where we are. Lots of people. And there are whole podcasts now which are going to be dedicated for weeks to come. Just you know, how did you get it wrong? How did you not know?

Well because you don't know. Because you don't know everything so right Ruthie's been back in touch oh I've seen Ruthie's could you read Ruthie's out and hello Ruthie hello Ruthie yeah hope you're good um dear Jane of feet I'm writing to you from and I don't know how to pronounce this wasn't this a bloke who had a packet of fag company Stuyvesant Park I have smoked many fags on benches in Stuyvesant Park in Manhattan. Peter Stuyvesant cigarettes are slightly longer than everybody else's cigarettes. You could get them in blue packets, you could get them in red packets and they all killed you. Yes, I was going

to say, is he still with us? No, he's not. Ruthie says, I am writing to you from Stuyvesant Park in Manhattan where everything is the same as it was yesterday except nothing is the same. The leaves are still fluttering orange and gold, the dogs play and bark on the ron and babies are walked up and down in expensive push chairs by weary looking nannies. If I hadn't read the news this morning it would be just another autumn day in New York. It is beautiful this time of year isn't it or it can be if you're in the right place. So beautiful. And if you go up into the boonies up on that east coast above New York, or even if you went down from New York, it is quite remarkable, Jane. Very much like Richmond Park at this time of year.

Well, I, do you know what, I can't... The parks in the north of England that I don't know about. Yes, Calderstones Park. Thank you. Sefton Park. and other great Liverpool parks. I wish I could understand how this has happened, she says. I'm genuinely curious why people voted the way they did and can't believe that all of them hate women and minorities.

Well, of course, women and minorities voted for this too. Carry on with Ruthie. That's what I was trying to say. It's more and more clear to me, says Ruthie, and I do think this is wise advice, that happiness is an inside job. If we pin our sense of well-being on outside things, like people, elections, jobs and money, they will all let us down at one point or another. So today, I'm choosing to be okay.

I've got a roof over my head, strong and fabulous women in my life and the knowledge that nothing lasts forever. I have a broken heart but not a broken spirit. I will not be clubbed into submission. I'm just going to have to search a little harder to find the light." Beautiful. Thank you, Ruthie. Don't do it in public though, Ruthie. You'll find yourself in trouble, even in that park in Manhattan. Go home before you look. Right, this, I'm going to paraphrase, this one comes from Julia Walker who says F off Linda, V and J will talk about what they want, all our lives have changed, honestly what an awful day. And that's

where we'll park it, Linda you're very welcome. I just said that in a BBC balance kind of way. Your vegetables are proving to be extremely helpful. I mean, has anyone got a normal shaped carrot? I don't think they exist anymore. This one is coming in from Emily who says, I can't begin to tell you how much joy you both give me over the last few etc etc etc etc etc etc. In response to the Musk interview, I'm just trying to do this on the spot. It's Thursday, I'm quite tired. In response to the Musk interview, the photos are my gift to you. The first provided by some of my gorgeous Year One Class of 2020 depicts superhero vegetables. Pure joy. We all need a bit of that right now. And they've done ever so well, Emily, haven't they? So

we've got a pear, we've got a potato, we've got a carrot. I would believe that all of those vegetables and a fruit have got superhuman powers. The second photo needs no explanation. Well I'm going to ask my colleague here Jane Garvey to explain the second picture. Well the second picture is, well it's of a long-legged gentleman carrot with a, not much to be ashamed of, appendage. I have quite low blood pressure so thanks for providing me with a way to raise it. Next time I feel dizzy I'll listen to Mr Musk. On the subject of inset days, you were asking about these weren't you?

What actually happens on them? Oh yes, what do you do? I have 20 years teaching experience but cannot answer your question of what we actually do because it would be too dull. I can give you one of my answers from many years ago though when asked by a year 8 student as she wrote insect day in her planner. I told her it indeed was when we shut the school so it could be sprayed with insect repellent to make it safe. She was very we shut the school so it could be sprayed with insect repellent to make it safe.

She was very satisfied with the answer. If only there was some kind of toxic man repellent we could use to make the world safe. Maybe an idea for your next merch. Your listeners could keep a can of it in your purses. Wishing you both a day filled with joy. Well, that's just a delightful, delightful email from you, Emily. And I very much hope that you did indeed write it on an insect day. Keep them coming, we're going to pop some more vegetables up on the Insta, and Eve is poised like a coiled spring. Thank you, writing it down there. Excellent.

Good doodles there, Eve. I hope she's not bored while she's listening to this. God forbid. But remember, previous producer just used to get out their phone just through their emails. I know. I've forgotten those days, actually. I don't really want to go back to them. Or indeed that place.

No, I know they would mean either. Can we just mop up some more American upset? Hello to Susan, who's in a place I'm really intrigued by this, and I'm sure a drama series could be set there. Brant Rock, M.A. Now it's M.A. Massachusetts. Minnesota. Minnesota.

Would it be Minnesota? Miami. No, because Wisconsin. Arizona. Must be Minnesota. Because it ends with an A. Is that how it works? You don't know.

OK, sorry, Susan. Susan says, I'm sorry, your own questions. I am writing again. What happened there? I broke. It was always going to happen. I've warned her against exercise in the past. This is this is what happens with it.

I am writing in again as it is now world news says our friend Susan that Americans, at least a majority and those that don't live in New York, New England and the Northwest have lost their minds. So all your listeners know there are millions of us today in America in shock, in tears and in stunned disbelief. This is what our country wants. This is what we've come to. I shake my head, I hang my head, I try to figure out how to go on, how to live a life that includes peace and happiness,

knowing what's coming. As I mentioned, please apologise to your listeners, to the world, for us. Supporters of Kamala Harris and democracy tried and we failed and it's bitter. Susan, thank you and please do write again and tell us more about Brant Rock and... Right, first time, Massachusetts. Massachusetts, okay. So what would the abbreviation for Minnesota be?

I'm looking it up now. Thank you. Massachusetts. Stay on the line. Yeah, thank you very much for that. And the British, sorry, bear with me. Thank you. Stay on the line. Yeah, thank you very much for that. And the British, sorry, bear with me. MN. MN? Yeah. Don't understand the logic of that. No? Okay. Alex just wants to put us right. Fair enough. I'm not American or a Trump fan, but I do know some supporters

of Trump. His appeal is pretty obvious. He's an anti-immigration economic nationalist and that's a successful route to popularity for millennia. I did enjoy a wry smile in the last few days of the campaign as the British media became obsessed with the idea of a late surge for Harris based on just one poll in a small rural non-swing state. Yeah, I mean Alex, I do take your point because there was so much talking up of that poll from Iowa and so many reporters and correspondents telling us with real, real heft that the woman who'd done that polling had an incredible record. It's just that on this occasion, she didn't get it right. Let's just be honest. So Alex, thank you for that.

My colleague is still scrolling which does bring back memories of our former producer at the old place. I'm not on email so I'm trying to because it's an interesting question how they're cheesing the two letters because some of them don't there doesn't seem to be a logical code throughout all of them so I'm going to put my phone away because it's incredibly rude at the table and somebody else can be more informative on the subject. I'm very grateful to Angela who sent us a picture of a potato in the shape of a heart which she has called a sacred heart potato and I actually think if you put that, if you put that on display Angela, you could actually set yourself up as some sort of shrine that people would be willing to visit.

Look at that, it's absolutely beautiful. It's really beautiful. Perhaps not in its prime. I seemed in on that because the thing at the top is like some kind of... It's a root. Yes, but it looks... it also looks like it's a kind of bejeweled stalk, you know, that somebody who is incredibly good at jewellery might put on their sacred heart. But that's just nature, isn't it? Beautiful.

Do you know what? It's the kind of thing that would be worn in Conclave, the film that we went to see on Monday night that we're going to talk about next week, the week after. Thank you Eve. Thank you Eve. God bless you my child. And also with you. Melanie's in Somerset, couch to 5k, Fern Britain is the subtitle. The actual title is Face Bra Merch Opportunity. God we've got some cracking suggestions in this episode haven't we? Fee worries about a heaving bosom but I worry about my jowls vibrating. It is possible to batten down boobs but my face

cannot be secured and feels flobbly, beautiful word. Oh, that's great. Can I hear that again? Flobbly as it vibrates with every step. So it's a very plausible excuse for not running. If I were more entrepreneurial in brackets or bothered, I would invent... I like Melanie. I would invent an attractive face bra, but I'm not. I do offer it to offer as merch opportunity, which I believe would suit your listener demographic. Yours, firmly ensconced on sofa. Melanie, all of that email is delightful. And I know what you mean. I mean, there is a jabbery bit there.

There is. I continue to believe that it's better than being dead. Yes it is. I also really, from the recess recesses of my memory think that either the Telegraph or the Mail have offered face bras. It wouldn't surprise me. In the small ads before we have talked about face bras before. Oh yes I think we probably have. But that doesn't mean that it is not an absolutely fantastic merchandising opportunity and Melanie feel free to be in touch again

Bonnie or bonnet. I hope I've got that right, but thank you for your email in my Bristol in my Bristol She says fair enough. I went to bed watching sounds wrong Well, no in her Bristol She went to bed watching Alistair and Rory and then I put them back on as soon as I woke up on Tuesday night. I was horrified and frightened to see the news knowing that the ramifications for many of us all over the world would be catastrophic. However, I did have two more episodes of the compelling Rivals to Go. I think this show has delivered a stellar cast, interesting social commentary, quite complex relationships, a disturbing but accurate depiction of the roles and neglect of women by powerful men,

and it's also fun, nostalgia and a delightful watch. I think that's true actually, now I was a late convert to Rivals, I am watching it, I think I've got another three or four episodes to go. I think Bonet is right, it is a more complicated saga than I gave it credit for. There's quite a lot going on, isn't there? Well there is, there's a lot of poking at fun that rings very true. There's a nasty scene coming up, you haven't got to that bit yet. But what it reveals is absolutely true and telling of, you know, the time that it set in, the 1980s, and time immemorial. You know, it's about the abuse of power and how young women suffer because of it. So, you know, there are little hefts in what can also be seen as quite a kind of raucous, fun-loving plot.

There's also copious amounts of sex, Jane. Can I just say, what? When? Well, there's more sex in Rivals than I think I have seen in any other aimed-at-me, prime-time show recently. And I heard somebody talking about it on the radio it may well have been Times Radio. Is that free on the app? Well it's a Times Radio app it's entirely free. Can you also find it on your digital radio? Oh you can. Sometimes. Sorry, carry on. But because Times Radio starts with the letter T it's right at the end. Okay. You do have to keep turning your knob. Yes don't get

stuck on any of the BBC stuff. Move on past that and reach us at Times Radio. So I heard somebody talking about this and saying that actually there is very little sex put in primetime streaming programs now because they've got to go around the world. That's the whole point of them. And so you don't want to get into trouble with various censors in other parts of the world, which are tighter than ours. And also because of the proliferation of porn, if people want to watch sex, they can just go find it. So you don't have to have that slight kind of free time, you know, maybe in the thorn birds, you know, where it's advantageous to you to put little bits of bosom in or

whatever it is because you couldn't get it anywhere else so I thought that was I just hadn't really considered it before but I'm quite surprised there are there are some scenes coming up you know where they're in a hotel in Malaga or whatever Rupert Campbell black I don't want to give away the plot. So Rupert Campbell, because of course he's going to be in every single one of those sexy. I might just go home and watch it. And you just do think, oh, I was just going to say, just spool forward. It's neither done well nor necessary. It's just going on a bit too long, but that might your own joke there.

Actually Marie has got a good question. It's our regular correspondent Marie. Is it Chris Tingle or Dingle? Is there anyone out there who is called Christopher Tingle? Oh, there will be. No, absolutely. I was laughed to scorn by a workmate when I said Chris Dingle. But I'm sure Jane did say Dingle on the pod yesterday.

You did. I may well have done it. It's Tingle. Is it? Yes. It is Tingle. Yeah. Because it comes from Christ. He wasn't called Chrysida. Oh no, he wasn't. His sister, Chrysida, is a completely different character.

Chris Tingle. Quite correct. The Dingle, weren't they in Emmerdale? They were, yeah, and I think they were a sort of bad lot, weren't they? They have lots of challenges. That's a family. Well, we should seek to better understand them, Jane, because we're Pingo liberals. There's no saying anything about them at all. No, I, no, I, look, I'm going to just try and understand everybody. I mean, I haven't got, I mean, at my age, I can't be certain how much longer I'll be around to try to be understanding. Oh, don't play that card. You've got another 18 years before you need to run for president

of the United States. Actually, that's how we should think of it from now on, shouldn't we? Absolutely right. Thank you for saying that. You could have a kiddie and wait for them to achieve adulthood and then give it a go. You'd still be younger than he is now. Yes. People keep saying how energetic he is though. I don't understand that because he looked like he was a busted flush 48 hours ago on that last day of the campaign trial. Why are people now saying how vigorous he is? I don't understand. People, it's true of all of us. We see what we want to see and we hear what we want to hear.

Yeah, good point. You're going a bit Trumpy. Trumpy. I say she admires me. No, I'm saying completely the opposite. I mean, it's remarkable. It's remarkable. I would need to take something if I was going to do that. I need to have a drink.

I need to have a very, very stiff gin and tonic, maybe even a double, maybe even not diet tonic. I had a single gin and tonic with diet even a double, maybe even not diet tonic. I had a single gin and tonic with diet tonic the other evening. That's not a drink. No, it's just not. It's a kind of exasperation in a glass. I kind of think people who insist on diet tonic... Well, I didn't insist on it, but it just came my way. I do think it's a slightly joyless experience.

Just a touch. It takes some calories in it. It's with a, I do think it's a slightly joyless experience. Just a touch. It's got some calories in it. It's not like you're going to have calories. Or rather if you're going to have tonic, make sure it's a tonic with calories. Make life worth living. This episode of Off Air is sponsored by the National Art Pass. Now Jane, there's nothing I like better than a trip to a gallery or a museum on a rainy afternoon. And let's be honest, we get quite a lot of those in the UK, don't we?

I do feel that looking at a bit of art is more than just kind of looking at a bit of art, if you know what I mean. I think it can really stay with you long after the visit, kind of feeds the soul. Yeah, you're on to something there, because scientific research suggests that regularly looking at art could help you live longer, plus lots of other well-known benefits to boost your wellbeing and help reduce stress. So why not get a National Art Pass? It gives you free and half price entry at hundreds of museums and galleries

and only costs £59.25 for an individual pass. And there's a reduced price for under £30 and you can also purchase plus one and plus kids add-ons. Free or half price entry and a chance of living longer, I am sold. The National Art Pass. See more, live more. Get your pass at artfund.org forward slash off air. ACAS powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. The podcast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Staying on top of Canadian news does not have to be boring.

Canada Land is a podcast that brings you the news differently. Our reporters break original news stories that you won't hear anywhere else, and our hosts and guests have funny and smart conversations about what is happening in Canadian politics and media. We're living through an era of heightened anxiety and fear. This Prime Minister is not worth the cost, crime and corruption. I am not a KGB agent. Listen to Canada Land, wherever you get your podcasts.

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com. Have we got a guest? We have, but I just want to say, I didn't know this, it's Louise who says, I wondered if you could help resolve an ongoing family discussion. And as we've made very clear over the years, Fee and I have perfect family lives. Never an argument, a raised voice or any kind of disagreement

or failure. And that's why we are absolutely the right people to ask about solving family discussions and arguments. Are you ready for this? I am. A few months back, Louise's mum was outraged when she got an email from her local vicar, in which the vicar said thanks at the end rather than thank you. Now according to my mother the use of the shortened thanks rather than the full thank you is abhorrently rude. My sister and I are simply stumped. As two upstanding ladies and respected journalist, thank you, I wondered if you might have a view. Does my mother have a point? Gosh. No, I don't really think so.

Well, I'm not very much of a grammar and language sarr. I just think it all evolves and whatever makes you happy. I think thanks. I do say thanks quite a bit rather than thank you. I don't like people who don't separate the thank and the you. You don't like it as a whole word. It's not a whole word. It's two words. Well, interesting, it comes up on my autocorrect as a whole word now. Well, it shouldn't. Okay. Nor, by the way, despite not being religious remotely, I do not like exmus. I don't really care. I just think life's too short. The thing that really, really does bug

me, and I'm going to completely go back on... Say it, sister. ...that now is when people don't leave two spaces between a full stop and the capital letter. Oh, darn. It just bunches up. It's all bunched up. It's been a trying week in so many ways. Let's add that to the pile of despair, which we will try and have a kip on over the course of the next couple of days.

Let's bring in our guest, who's one of our favourite broadcasters. The guy is so good at what he does. It's Geoff Stelling, author of a new memoir called Saturday Afternoon Fever. You might well know him as one of the hosts of Talk Sports Breakfast Show on Mondays and Tuesdays. He is in many ways the sports broadcaster known to so many of us as the affable twinkly Hartley Paul FC supporting host of Skies soccer Saturday. Now that was the much-loved Saturday afternoon show about football but with no actual football. Jeff would attempt to maintain control of ex-pros who sat in front of screens watching games and coming up with updates while

Chris Kamara reported live from the ground but with his back to the action. It worked but quite honestly it probably shouldn't have done. Jeff's new book is about his working life but he's also very frank about the challenge of supporting a much-loved child with an eating disorder and if you are affected by any of the issues discussed in the interview then please reach out to feedback at times dot radio now Jeff has seemingly had the dream career in broadcasting I asked him if he thought that was a fair assessment yeah I've had a charmed life it's a very fair assessment you know got very fortunate got into broadcasting really at a great, embryonic stages of radio development.

Didn't need any broadcasting experience because nobody had any. So I was able to put the foot in the door very early on and thankfully since then, I've not been found out, nobody's thrown me out and still going. Well don't undersell it because you were the master of live sports broadcasting on telly with Soccer Saturday. I mean I have I certainly did watch it in the glory days Geoff when you were there in charge and it was a football show with no football. Exactly. So when you try and explain it, people go,

well, why would anyone watch that? And I used to watch it and question why I was watching it, but then I kept watching it because of, well, what was it? What was it that kept football fans watching? I think there are a few things. Firstly, you know, when it was first devised, it was an alternative that wasn't available anywhere else. And I'd like to think it was also because it was informative but slightly irreverent, you know,

we tried to be daft, we tried to make it fun. I've always thought football, big business, a lot of people's lives depend on it, you know, not just talking players but staff, you know, football fans, their weekends are ruined if your team loses. So big business, important, but entertainment. Well the but is really important and the format was, for anyone who hasn't seen it, was you are in charge and you've got a panel. In charge in theory, yes. You've got a panel of ex-pros, they are watching a game, but that's not content they can share

with the viewer because you're not allowed to broadcast live games at 3 or whatever time the kickoff is these days. And then they would update and you'd get these noises off camera so you'd know that, I don't know, Paul Merson had seen a goal or a near miss or something and then you would immediately know to go to them and they'd tell you about it. I mean, even as I speak it sounds like a crackers format that should never have worked. Yeah, everybody thought it was a crazy format. And it's interesting, people, you know, you do hear the shouts,

and you think, well, where's that come from? Who scored? Things in the early days, the panellists were told not to shout. It was very unprofessional to shout out, you know, and eventually with some of them just couldn't restrain themselves anymore and it was probably the best thing that ever happened, you know, especially if you heard a series of shouts, one following another, following another, following another. So it turned out fantastically well in that way. And the quality of the pan was important as well, especially in the very early days when nobody had heard of Soccer Saturday, but everybody had heard of George Best and everybody had heard of Rodney Marsh and everyone

had heard of Frank McClintock. So we had great panelists. And George Best, you referenced him there, he was a panelist, he would take part, but he had a terrible drink problem. He died before he was 60, I didn't realise that, and his wife who does, I mean appears to have been incredibly long-suffering, would put him into a cab en route to the studio but he wouldn't always get there. No, because, look George was an absolutely lovely, charming fella. He would basically tell the cab driver to stop at the Feeney Arms, his local, and he said, I left something in there last night and I've just got to pop in and recover it. And of course George would pop in and six

hours later he wouldn't be back out again. And also from a cab driver's point of view it was very hard to say, no I'm not stopping there George, he's the greatest footballer of our time, I'm not going to stop for you, I'm going to take you to the studios. So frequently he failed to appear. But my then boss, the late Rick Wakeling, was a huge George Best fan and he said to George that he had a job for life pretty much whatever and he was right I mean he didn't last as long as any of us wanted to because of George's early death and which was desperately sad because he'd been through so much with his liver transplants and we all thought he was invincible. You used your platform in a number of interesting ways

and so there was nothing you weren't just Jeff who did football. People will know that you tried to raise awareness of prostate cancer, you did lots of charity walks. You also on one occasion talked about eating disorders and the treatment of eating disorders. Tell us a little bit about that because I found that very unexpected if I'm honest. Well, I had some experience of this, you know, within my family. So I was given not quite carte blanche by Sky, but I was given a lot of latitude to say pretty much what I wanted to, as long as it wasn't, you know, slanderous. So we were, we had a show which was, it was Mental Health Week, and Paul Merson had been on the show and he was talking about his issues over the years with drinking drugs and gambling. And one of our reporters was suffering from an eating disorder and she came on very bravely

described what she was going through and I thought, well this is my opportunity to have a little say on this. And so I had probably two minutes to prepare what was a 45 second or a minute statement, which went a bit further than I'd imagined when I started it to be honest, but about the lack of awareness, the lack of treatment, the lack of accessibility to any effective treatment for people suffering with eating disorders, which is still regarded, I think, as almost a fictitious illness by some people. I still get people saying to me, we're talking about eating disorders, give them a good meal, and I think like punching the people who say that because I know the impact that an eating disorder can have on the individual

involved and the family involved and I told it in third person in there. I told it as you know a friend and what they've been through but as I point out in the book that was all lies because it was me, my wife, my daughter, my family and yeah yeah, so it was very important to me. Actually, I had more response to that over the 30 years, I had more response to making that sort of statement than anything else. Anything else I've done in 30 years, I never had a reaction like that. On social media, I got letters to my home, people pushing letters through my door. I found myself sitting in an all party meeting in the House of Commons next to John McDonnell talking about it. Yeah, so it was, it made quite an impact. But it's something I feel incredibly strongly about, you know. I can tell just from the way you're speaking about it.

This is all pretty raw stuff, isn't it? Oh, it is, Jen. You know, look, my daughter was... is suffering from eating disorder. And to paint the broad picture of it, she was, let's try and put it in new money, 34 kilograms is that, something like that, about five stone, three or four, and she was dying and if you said to her unless you eat, then you will die, she would, that's fine, rather die than eat, you know, rather die than be fat. And she would exchange, not exchange, she would see on the internet horrific pictures of other girls who had eating disorders. Their BMI would be 13 and a half and their target was to get down to 12 and a half and it was

incredible. But the task of finding help was amazingly difficult. I mean amazingly difficult. And you would say yourself that you are fortunate, you've got resources, you must have contacts. Yeah, I did. Even so. But we found, you you know doctors didn't really know quite how to cope. Hospitals certainly didn't know how to cope. When we got the stage where we simply had to find a hospital for us because our local GP had basically said our organs can fail at any time now.

We were turned away by a lot of very famous establishments and eventually we went to, we found a private hospital who would accept her. And we were fortunate, we considered ourselves fortunate because I remember the chief psychiatrist in the time, you know, we're going to admit to the same day that we took her, said, you know, we don't have to, these are the costs, we don't want you to have to remortgage the house. Well, of course we would have remortgaged the house if need be, but the costs were phenomenal. And I was fortunate because I've had a really well paid job over the years. Without that I don't know what people do. I mean I really don't know what people do.

The alternative was that she would be sectioned and taken god knows where. So without being, and you can refuse to answer this, but how is she now? How are you all now? Every day is a battle. And there are some good days and some bad days. The good days might run into a week, the bad days might run into a month or two months. She's not in as bad a place as she was, but she's still battling away. And the things that get me absolutely fuming, of course, is it's not just the effect on her, it's the effect on my sons, the effect on my wife. Things that get me fuming is with people with eating disorders.

And I met quite a lot of them. You know, you read health authorities recommending that people who require persistent treatment, people who've been in hospital had treatment, fall back, come back again, come back again, and they recommend palliative care, a pathway. I mean for God's sake we're a civilised society, or I thought we were, and yet here we are saying we don't know the best way to make you well, we'll make you comfortable while you die, which is effectively what they're saying. It's horrendous.

I really hear the passion in your voice and I'm so sorry. People will be in a way I think rather stunned to hear this from a man who they associate with all the laughs of Sockless Saturday with Cammie and everything else and we've got to mention your relationship with him on air and I know you also have an off air friendship with him but the bit that made it was when was it a sending off? Yes. That he had a game, a relatively obscure game I don't think it was anything mind-boggling, was it? It was down at Portsmouth.

I think it was Portsmouth Blackburn. Okay. And Chris Kamara had been a player. He'd been a professional for, remind me who Chris Kamara played. Well, he played for a lot of clubs. He played for Middlesbrough, Leeds. He played for Swindon Town, people like that. He had a, he's played a lot of, a lot of games and he managed clubs. You know, he was was manager at Bradford City, he was manager at Stoke.

Yeah, but he's also a brilliant broadcaster, which isn't a given. Just because you know the game doesn't mean that you're going to be brilliant on screen or on air, does it? No, he is a brilliant broadcaster and very different. He's definitely a one-off. Initially when he was introduced to Soccer Saturday actually, at that stage we didn't send match reporters to games, we just did scores and had the panel in the studio. We had a football show that didn't show any football and then we decided that we would send a reporter to a match, but he would spend the entire 90 minutes with his back to the game. Now that reporter was Chris Kamara,

and he sort of paved the way for all the other reporters that nowadays Sky sent the matches, which is fantastic. But no, he was at Portsmouth and I threw it to him because the video printer in front of me had said there was a red card and it was just a classic exchange because he hadn't seen it. Well he hadn't really noticed at all. No, no he thought the player was being substituted and it was a great moment for the show, it got so much publicity. I mean you know the clips went viral on the internet, He was in demand worldwide to explain what had gone wrong. Chris, he was really worried

about it because he thought this was such an enormous faux pas that he'd be in diabolical trouble when he got back. But that's not how the way broadcasting works. No, you know, but he hit all, he hit the headlines that the show had craved to be brutally honest. That's the absolute genius of it. And when we look at the match of the day, for example, and the rumours about Gary Lineker's future, the suggestion that in fact what everyone, it's the Holy Grail is always chasing younger viewers and that impacted on you at Sky

and it's now something that's afflicting it would seem the BBC as well. Do you think it is worth trying to find that young audience or should you just carry on pleasing the people you've got? Well I'm of a certain generation so... Well you are, so am I now Jim. Do I think it's worth chasing that younger audience? You know what my view has always been about this chain is that what we should try and do is to appeal to people of a certain age, whether it be mid-30s, generally speaking the parents, the kids, they're going to find their own way of entertaining themselves. You know, there are a million other ways of entertaining yourself now,

rather than TV or radio. There are a million other ways of finding out scores. But hopefully, I've always thought, if we keep the parents as committed viewers, for instance, to Soccer Saturday, then eventually the kids, when they become their parents' age age they'll follow in their footsteps That's I've always thought it was a pretty hopeless cause Chasing youth all the time, you know, I know from from my kids that They'll find a million other ways to entertain themselves. So I

Was thought as well, obviously I was wrong, but I always thought as well that actually dad is generally the one that pays the bills, so let's try and keep him happy. Yeah, good luck with that. Yeah. Okay, highlight of your professional career then, what would you say was the day where you just thought, I don't know, that I can't believe I'm getting paid for this. I mean, I've had a few of those. They are brilliant. Honestly, it sounds a cliche but every day. Oh no. No, every day. Here at a talk sport, every single Monday and Tuesday morning.

Well I've got the lovely Alistair McQuist waiting for me. How could it not be wonderful? And at Sky, honestly, I was so privileged to be doing what I was doing with such fantastic people. And I don't just mean the panel, but there were the reporters, the producers, everybody. It was, for virtually all of it, so much fun to be working there, you know, and a privilege to be there. So there wasn't one sort of eureka moment, isn't this great, isn't this marvellous, you know, there were days I remember better than others, often for the wrong reasons, you know, the day that my team's Hartlepool and we got relegated out of the Football League live on the show and it was with an injury time goal and that was painful to bear.

So I wouldn't say there was one specific moment. Honestly, I loved it all. I've been, as you said, right, I've had a charmed life, you know, and you've just got to be thankful for it. The great Jeff Stelling talking there about his mate Cami, Chris Kamara, a former pro who was such a big part of Soccer Saturday and actually he's made loads of other shows with Jeff Stelling since as well and lots of people loved them both and thought their partnership was really really funny and actually more than funny it's kind of quite significant because it was

a bit like the sort of hairy bikers chemistry I would say between those two, it was very enjoyable. And Jeff also obviously in that interview also talked about eating disorders and just the absolute nightmare that it is being the parent of someone trying to deal with an eating disorder. So very grateful to him for being so honest about that and I suspect it's an experience that lots of people either are going through or have been through, in next week, in next week, in Bristol, in next week. In next week. In next week will be book club. So if you'd like to get one of your suggestions. You know how your grammar pet fears.

I'm really, really down on my sleep this week. Is it middle English that you're speaking? I can't work it out. Sorry. I've been replaced by a bot. It's quite a cheap bot. I've got a Chinese tariff on me. Right, if you'd like to send in all of your thoughts about Joanna Cannon, the trouble with goats and sheep, then we will put those into the mix and the Book Club podcast will come your way on Friday. I know many of you have really enjoyed the book. We've done an

interview with Joanna, so that will appear too, but it is always lovely when we have all of your thoughts and suggestions and opinions to read out to. Goodbye. Goodbye. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2-4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale, and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the

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