Off Air... with Jane and Fi - A partridge in a placenta pear tree (with Adrian Dunbar)

Episode Date: August 6, 2025

The balance between cock-ups and funny bits is a delicate one - we hope we've got it right... In this episode, Jane and Fi chat Mariah Carey's denial of time, Paxo and Paxos, the future of allotments, and Blue Tits.Plus, actor Adrian Dunbar, famous for Line of Duty, discusses the new season of 'Ridley'. The bag scheme Fi was talking about is here: https://www.madlug.com/?srsltid=AfmBOophSKkob9HecUQVYtaqe0e_U322WQ9QBbX9WKrf0tnX3TLUrVDO You can listen to the playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3qIjhtS9sprg864IXC96he?si=uOzz4UYZRc2nFOP8FV_1jg&pi=BGoacntaS_ukiIf you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Well, look, I mean, once Laurenne hangs up her microphone, as we like to say in this business. No, just hangs up her head first. No, it's her headfirst. Hanks up her head. By the way, there's nowhere to hang them. I know. Do you know what? That makes perfect sense now.

I don't know. I didn't realize that you made notes on funny points on funny points. Okay, what movement do you make when you're making a note on a funny point? Because I'm going to watch you. See what you think is funny. You do that. And when you tap the keyboard, is that when we make a mistake? Okay, I'm watching out for the balance between funny bits and cock-ups.

Some people have made a career out of that, haven't they? Dennis Norton. Do you remember he had his clipboard with his bloopers on? His script was quite funny. He was very, very much... He was peak old, kindly, twinkly-eyed gentleman on television wearing a suit and a tie introducing other people's mistakes. It's quite a weird concept, isn't it?

It is. But in fairness to the man, he was never arrested. No. So, you know, we need to take our kindly, twinkly old gentleman and treasure them. Because there are some, and I suspect he was one of them. It is astonishing at the moment how... nearly every week

we are covering a story about somebody of the male persuasion messing up doing the ultimate blooper real-life blooper not funny at all Jane not funny at all

let's talk about cats let's talk about cats I have to say I was still thinking about Karen Slaughter's Moggy Dexter as I fell into my bed of pain in my chambers

last night honestly well I looked at Cool Cat and I thought But maybe there'll come a time when I'll need to call he or she and would he be all right with that. And we've had some detail, haven't we, from other people. Well, you've got the email there.

Yeah, who've had to make urethra adjustments. But anyway, there's quite a lot of cat footage up on our Instagram account at the moment because we do have a sponsor in the form of Purina. So I just got to say this in all honesty. And there's no way of saying it without its answer. like I'm so on commission, but I gave my cats the ultimate, ultimate purina, the one that looks like a patte that's also in a kind of style of a chicken Kiev, so it's got some lovely, extra gorgeous, runny stuff in the middle of it.

So I gave that to them the other night, and I get up quite early in the morning, but there was this scratching at the door of my bedroom door at about 6 o'clock in the morning. I thought that is too early even for me, and it got so bad. I had to open the door, and the three of them were just lined up there, basically going, give us more, give us more of the top staff. It was like I've given them some kind of drugs. And then it's difficult to go back, so I can't go back. I'm with Peerina for life.

Yeah, well, she used to do public service broadcasting, and now it's come to this. But no, I mean, listen, I'm with you. Yeah, anyway, it's been, it was an exciting evening last night. Quite a few people were sharing pictures of their cats. with me on the sofa. I shared them back. There was some explicit content going on. Your pet gang, this comes in from Angie Jones,

a delicious picture of a tortoiseshell cat with that gorgeous kind of white. I'd say that's tortoiseshell. Oh, I don't know. I mean, I haven't got a tortoiseshell, so you call it tabby. We'll go with Tabby. Full name, Sir Emlyn Pussy Bond.

Proper name, Emlin, or MZ. he was with us for just over 17 years and was just the loveliest of cats you could ever hope to meet. Now, there were some bad times though. All of this brings me, says Angie, to something I heard on today's podcast about carolta's cat and his sex change-up.

Four months ago, I'd have laughed as hard as you guys did, but in May, our youngest and sweetest of little chaps, Bertie, was taken very poorly. Our local vet was unable to treat him, so we were given the option of either rushing him to the Bristol vets in Langford or while the other, which was not an option. When we got to Langford, it was explained to us

that Bertie also had a blockage which meant he couldn't we at all, which according to the fabulous vet who looked after him and us for the entire next week was only second worse, an emergency to Bertie being hit by a car. We were told that if they couldn't clear the blockage by way of conventional surgery,

that the only other option would be for them to... Turn the page. Not cut off his piece. but redirect his urethra out through his back end, effectively changing him from a Bertie to a bertha. My friend, who used to be a veterinary nurse, knew the technical name for the procedure because apparently it's not such a rare or bonkers thing as we also thought it would be. We left Bertie with them, trusting that they would do whatever was needed to make our sweet boy well again. It was the worst week ever, waiting each day for an update.

But after two surgeries, we were finally contacted and told they'd been able to clear the bladder of the buildup of what turned out to be crystal sludge with him still being Bertie Boy. Oh my God. Sorry, is that like kidney stones? I guess so. Yeah. Struvite sludge, which is crystal sludge. I didn't know that at all.

And Angie just ends by saying, I'd like to think the joy on both our faces sums up just how relieved and happy we were to have him back. the purse. $6,500 £6,500 to have Bertie stay as Bertie. Yes. Okay, people, sort of new age crystals

are very big, aren't they? But this is a whole different area. Yeah, I don't think these crystals you'd want to wear in a necklace and assume that your aura was benefiting from them. You'll be able to afford them for start after that. A clever operation

to be able to dip your ureth around and out your back end, so it all would be good. All was well. I should hope it's bloody clever for six and a half grand. Yes, yeah. God. Yep, yep, yep. So I think that must have been what Pinky Pong's had,

but he just managed to get it sorted without having to... It didn't cost that much either, but he was in a lot of pain, and he definitely had that kind of unable-to-wee problem going on. But look, this has been a fascinating move that I never thought when I sat in grafted and had. house to my journalistic training course 28 years ago

this would be the culmination of it and I very much feel it is. So many of the conversations we've been able to have on this podcast were truly unthinkable when we first started our not exactly effortless shin up the radio broadcasting

showbiz ladder. Just unbelievable. I'm just going to read a very straightforward pleasant email of gratitude from Carrie who just was to say would a thing of joy the playlist is where can you find it for you can find it on spotify if you type in offer with jane and fee playlist then it comes up and carrie says she's loving it it's a thing of beauty and joy most of the tracks are old well-loved friends lots already on my own playlist but some of them are forgotten

favourites some of them are unknown songs by favourite bands some are a complete revelation and have broadened my listening habits exactly what you want from a playlist well done to all of those who contributed and also to Rosie. So another shout-out to our executive producer Rosie who I think it's fair to say made slightly heavy weather of the fact that she had to add

some of the tracks, all of the tracks, okay, to the playlist. But we hear you, Rosie, and indeed Carrie just wants to say how much she appreciates what you did. Well, I'm going to stick up for Rosie because that is laborious and I think technically it would be

beyond both of us actually and I mean there are so many, Jane. are so, so many. I know there are a lot. So I think I'm just going to stick with being grateful. Shall I just pick, I'm just going to read out four from the playlist. I think there are about 60 tracks on it now. I too am thoroughly enjoying the diversity. It's even more eclectic and diverse than six music. Six music believes that that is not possible. But I'm here to tell you it is. Is that the home of being eclectic? Is it certainly? I don't think I've ever listened to really. Have you never listened?

You never listened to Sean Keevney when he was doing the breakfast show there. I know you were a massive fan. I didn't really, no. I think I just moved over to speech radio then and I didn't really want any, I didn't want anything eclectic before 9 o'clock. I don't know.

You're far more cerebral than I am. I just used to love his malo-mour. He was just always in such a bait. Oh no, look, really, really funny man. It was great. I thought he was absolutely incredible. It was the music that put me off. It's, when I hear that name, six music, I just think bobbly cardigans.

I can't help myself, sorry. I think sheds. Am I wrong? No, you're not wrong because the lovely Gideon Coe does quite a few of his shows from his shed. His shed's quite legendary. I didn't know that, but yeah, it doesn't surprise me. Well, look, I mean, once Laurenne hangs up her microphone, as we like to say in this business. No, it hangs up her head first.

No, it's an headfirst. Hanks up her head. By the way, there's nowhere to hang them. I know. Do you know what? That makes perfect sense now because I thought, well, nobody's hanging a microphone. Right, thank God you've corrected me on that. Should we just get back to these four things?

Anyway, once Lauren Overn retires, they'll be able... Neither of us. Well, I certainly won't. I'll be able to strike you off the list. Yeah, exactly. I'd still be keen. I couldn't be. Give me love from George Harrison. I want to be on greatest hits. That's what I'm aiming for.

We found love, Rihanna Calvin Harris. Swim until you can't see, frightened rabbit. Just a girl, no doubt. Matt Bianco, get out of your lazy bed. Oh, yeah. And sit down from James, which would then be followed by all-time classic, Mr. Brightside, by the killers.

It's just superb. It's got absolutely everything in it. Now, you've said Calvin Harris, I then think about Vic Hope because he's married to Vic Hope. Oh, and they've just had a baby. And they've just had a baby. That's lovely. She gave birth in a birthing pool,

and she's had her placenta made into capsules. Yeah, they air-dried the placenta And it's in a handy, easy to digest form So somebody has popped that into a business Accumulator and made some money, haven't they? Quick work, isn't it? I mean, I don't know how old the baby is. Congratulations, by the way.

But, I mean, yeah, how quickly can you have your placenta freeze-dried and made into capsules? We should look it up. It's a business opportunity that passed us by. What did you do with... Oh, your placenta went to a museum. It went in a taxi across London for medical research purposes.

And that was my eldest child's placenta. And the other one still gets quite angry that her placenta wasn't studied. They just put it in a sluice. Oh, I know. I wasn't offered my placenta either time. And I wouldn't know. No, I wouldn't to be. But were you shown it?

Was I shown it? I was so out of it. Yes, it was slightly different. I mean, I should say I'm very fortunate. I had elective cesarean, so I was high on life and high on every other I was not in great shape after my first one, definitely. Completely different. So I was, you know, I don't think I've ever been in better spirits.

So when they showed me the placenta, I thought, well, that's fascinating. How wonderful I created that. It's annoying, though, because I had my daughter at home, and I wanted to be in hospital very much, and I ended up having her at home very suddenly. So they just could have left the placenta with me, couldn't they? I know a friend of mine who's got an allotment, that's a current theme, she planted her placenta under the pear tree and it's never been more fertile

it's I mean in the allotment In all seriousness It is the tree that just goes The tree of life Yep Because it's full I mean we've put a lot of work into that placenta Yeah I mean it looks from memory

Obviously my memory is not that brilliant Of that sort of nano A couple of nanoseconds in my life But it was a sort of grey pulsing mass With bits of piping coming out of it Extraord Wasn't that Adrian Very upsetting.

Keep it in. Agent, I'm sorry. It was just a low-hanging fruit. Presumably very much like that allotment. Well, they've got all kinds of... But how fascinating. If people... You're right, allotments were in the news.

This is a wide-ranging podcast. I'm just trying to reclaim some kind of intellectual content. Allotments were in the news yesterday. weren't they, colleague. Why? Because it has been unearthed that Angela Rainer has given some council's permission to sell off a very small number of allotments, but were that to open the floodgates and all councils could sell off allotments and because so many councils are bankrupt, almost bankrupt, they just need all of the cash injection they can get. That would be such a huge thing. Allotments are part of our beating heart. Yes. But we shouldn't, you say open the floodgates

there, can I say that's a very journalistic kind of expression? I'm a journalist. You are. Do you use it? Open the floodgates. I am really interested in people's relationships with their allotments, so can I just ask people who've got an allotment and you cherish it and who love working on it? Do tell us about them.

Tell us where they are, tell us what you grow, tell us how hard it was to get and maintain it. I think that's interesting too. And honestly, have you also planted a placenta? And if you did, has it born fruit? I really want to know. A series of great questions. Thank you very much.

I'm also a journalist. So, you know, sometimes on the train when you're taking a trip out of town... As we are. Where are we going tomorrow? We're going to North Berwick. So we're going up to Edinburgh. We're changing trains. We're heading off on a tiny little regional chuff-choof,

and we'll be in North Berwick in time for a very late drink. Not in time for tea at all, but in time for a late evening drink. But allotments will frequently be by train lines because they're not in obviously the kind of prime land spots around the towns and cities and villages of this country and they are a thing of wonder, aren't they?

The neatness and the pride that just sings out of every single furrow and sod of soil, I think, is a really wonderful thing. And the terrible truth about those floodgates opening, Jane, and I'm sorry, is an awful cliche. But the truth about it is that if they are sold off, they will be sold off, obviously, to well-off people who will just, like garages in London, that just became this extraordinary thing where people were, you know, paying 250 grand for a garage in Chelsea.

Well, they still do. Yep, and then turning it into a narrow house that, you know, Kevin McLeod goes and fawns over in grand designs that's on the market for a million pounds. You can't turn it that back. You can't get an allotment back once it starts to go. So I think an awful lot of people. are very hopeful that it will just be a tiny little smattering that are allowed to be sold.

And also tell us about your Marrows because they're much mocked, aren't they? But they're apparently terribly easy to grow. Well, you were very rude about Marrows on the programme yesterday and the Corset lovers of the world who I think have congregated around Times Radio in a very specific way, absolutely livid with you. Well, I don't like them.

I mean, I think they're okay if you can do something else with them, but you have to shove a load of something that tastes of something on top of them in order to create a thing of beauty. Well, you have to do that with everything. You even have to do that with the potato. What nonsense. Right, let's bring in Jules, who says, could I please request a shout-out to the Stellar Titan Blue Tits?

You see this? Oh, yes. Yeah, because this is your territory who are attempting to swim across. Now, would it be the Celtic Sea? It must be the Celtic Sea. The Celtic. Yeah, in a relay.

In a week's time, the team of six blue tits from the Pembrokeshire and Brecken flocks take on a world first an all-female relay swim across the Celtic Sea from Ireland to Wales, 52 miles across St George's Channel. They're swimming for the challenge

and to raise funds for the Blue Tits Chill Swimmers CIC. It's a global non-for-profit community that's empowering over 100,000 people through cold water and connection. Wow. Well, look, what can we say? particularly as I'm a former patrol leader of the blue tits

as I've mentioned in the guides I particularly extend my very best wishes to them I couldn't do it but hats off to you if you are able to it's a very different blue tip we're talking about here oh I've just got that yes so the blue tits are a worldwide organisation of cold water swimmers they're not girl guides no no I know but is that a pun on the fact that something might happen to your body

when you go into cold water yes I've only just got it but when you were in the girl guides was that a inappropriate and then so you know until this literally until now I'd never thought of it no the boot tits was it was a bird we had it on our badge and very yeah innocent times yeah really like the 80085 like boobs yeah yeah so yes we do all hail the blue tits they've got so many people together in different parts of the country different ages I think it's a very wonderful thing do you think you'll ever take up

a bit of swimming. No. Well, I can swim. I went into the sea in Greece. It's lovely. I think there's more a point of sort of getting in and then coming out

and saying you'd been in and then you could wrap yourself in a towel and get back to your book. Lovely. I think the short answer to that question, everybody was no. Right, toilet paper, lipstick and the flow of time comes in from Hannah

who is 24 and listening in Woking. And she's also intelligent. Yep, she is. Brilliantly so. Here we go. Long time listener, second time email. Eve didn't even move.

anyway Hannah, I'm so sorry. She didn't flinch. You've kept me company since COVID when my wonderful mum, honour, great name, introduce me to your podcast. I now listen every morning as I get ready for the day and I was taken aback by Mariah Carey's statements last week. Do you want to just

refresh the audience's memory of what Mariah Carey stated? Yes, well she just said fundamentally she doesn't acknowledge the passing of time. So she's ageless, hard to pin down if you want to make a date with her or make an appointment of any kind. But

the ageing process simply doesn't happen to her. What does she do on forms? On forms? Yes. Because you're just asked every day if you take to her. It's funny. You know, certainly when you get to my vintage, the scrolling back can take up off the bloody day.

You also do think, hang on, if I was born in 2025, I wouldn't be filling this in. Why do they always start? Why have they got 2023 available there? It's just preposterous. Yeah, anyway, carry on. It's like when you're suddenly given a drop-down list of, you know, every single country available on the planet, when you're booking, you know, something to pick up at Argos 10 minutes later.

I mean, the chances that you are in Uganda and you're going to make the deadline as slim. But also, honestly, to add a serious note is it always offers the option of Afghanistan and you just think, no one in Afghanistan's ordering this. But imagine if they took Afghanistan off. That would be a terrible, that would be terribly final, wouldn't it? Yeah, I suppose so. Right. As a young physicist, we're back with Hannah 24 in Woking. Her denial of time irritated me. And as someone who enjoys life, I found her denial of carbs, distressing. Life is better with pasta. Put that on a t-shirt. And the flow of time is an inevitable consequence of thermodynamics. Therefore, you can deny aging, but you'd be incorrect. Sorry, Mariah. My physics credentials are a four-year undergraduate course in physics. My fourth year was a master's, and now a master's degree. specialising in theoretical physics at King's College London.

Now that is where Michel Adjaman is, isn't it? So, yeah, wonderful university. I hope to do a PhD in theoretical particle physics. It's at Kingstrand Campus that the cat's anus toilet paper dispensers have plagued me. And it's not a kind of woman, isn't she? Many a time I've gone into a cubicle only to find the toilet paper stuck inside the dispenser and had to exit quickly to find one with available toilet paper in happier news. your off-air playlist has brought me much joy

and is providing a soundtrack to my master's dissertation over the summer. Physics at all levels past and present is dominated by men and every day I wear my bright pink or sparkly lipstick as a symbol of my personal rebellion against the physicist stereotype. I would love to know if any fellow women scientists listening do something similar as a joyful act of self-expression as it's very rare that I encounter women with careers in science academia. well we chucked that out Hannah good for you we're with you all the way thank goodness that you've stuck at it

I wonder whether it's not it's actually worse than not seeing anybody else in the room who's like you are you made to feel uncomfortable because you're there you're only 24 I think jane and I live with the hope that times are always changing but it's always good to hear if they aren't and I'm so sorry about your cat's bum dispensers as well I think we just on earthed something here haven't We have. Not for the first time. Yeah, but it doesn't always take you in the right direction. If only we could facilitate a meeting between Hannah and Mariah Carey, in which Hannah just quietly, painstakingly pointed out that time does, it does pass and that you too, Mariah, are impacted by the very real laws of physics.

Yeah. Well, Mariah set herself up for a terrible fall, hasn't she? Because now, you know, the Daily Mail can write a terrible headline about the fact that she's aging. because she's claimed that she isn't. So, forevermore, it will be the before and after, Beijing. You wonder, though, whether Mariah, she sits on a great big lump of money. We'll really care, all that much. I don't know. I hope not, Mariah, because you're a one-off.

Kath is in Perthshire, and she was interested in the fact that we were saying we're just not that interested in handbags. I feel a bit guilty now, because one of my big beefs is people who want to express their lack of interest in something. And we both said we weren't that interested in handbags. I apologise to any handbag lovers who were offended by that because ultimately someone saying they're not interested in something isn't that interesting, is it?

So, sorry. Crack on. I became obsessed, says Kath, after watching my mother and her two sisters in the 70s, each with their own handbag, which contained all their most important possessions, checkbook, bank book, letters, bills, makeup and purse. They went everywhere with them. They sat beside the sofa.

They sat beside the bed at night. Over the years, I must have spent thousands on bags sorry, says Kath, I don't have children. I'm mostly by pre-own now, and when I'm fed up with them, I sell them on, often making a tidy profit after just a couple of years. Currently, I have about 20 from various designers. To be honest, I rarely use most of them, as I've now retired,

but I love taking them out of their little dustbags and just looking at the craftsmanship of some, and just adoring others. It is a bit fickle, I know, and I keep how much I spend to myself, as to be honest, I know it's an absurd. seen amount of money to spend on material goods with all sorts of stuff happening all over the world but i've worked hard all my life don't spend many i have money i haven't got and frankly

it's my little luxury and do you know what she says is her most prize bag which it's the jane and fee tote and best of all kath's going to be in north berwick so um if you get the chance kath come up and see us and show us the bag you're carrying um for that very important social occasion presumably you'll really think very hard about which bag you're going to bring with you. But that's, I think you've put up a spirited defence of a love of handbags. Very much so. I did go in search of the company that had set up handbags purely to donate their profits to charity and to slightly kind of undermine, but with a good cause in mind,

our obsession with having something branded and getting a new thing every six months. But I don't think they're around anymore. I know that one of our listeners had suggested if people did want to do something good with bags they could head to Madlug which is a charitable cause where you're able to buy bags that give dignity to children in care

and I think I'm right in saying it was set up because quite a lot of children in care end up just having to cart their things round in black bin bags which is just not how it should be at all so if you want to do something good we could pop that in the description and you could head to that and have a look

and this comes in from Susanna and it's the most wonderful, wonderful holiday bookshelf ever. Dear Fian Jane, long time listener, first time emailer with reassuring news. She just wasn't listening. It's in Tenerife. It's in Tenerife.

The jingle is gone on holiday to Tenerife. Oh, yes, sorry. I've forgotten it. It got a bargain break, didn't it? Yeah. I'll do that again for you. At fact, the jingles probably absolutely pie-eyed on a sunlander just somewhere in Tenerife right now. I think it's sweating cobs, isn't it? Long-time listener first time, E. Leila, with reassuring news from a middle-aged reader on holiday on Paxos.

Have you been to Paxos? I haven't. It's the island that so far has eluded me. Okay. Look out Paxos. There are loads of books in our villa and you're absolutely spot on. Here we go. There's a Joanna Trollope, an E.L. James and a Sally Rooney. Which E.L. James, is it? It is the mister. Is that a follow-on?

That was the one I used to read occasional sentences from Dura. That was after 50 days? Oh, very much so, yes. And then was there a missus, the missus? I think we're still waiting for the misses. Come on, E.L. And the Sally Rooney is conversations with friends. The shelf overall looks like the choices of a mismatch book club

with the old-school Brits leaving copies of John La Caree. There's Tinker Taylor. Anita Bruckner. that's Hotel Dulac F Scots Fitzgerald as well and the more up-to-date crew leaving Rory Stewart's politics on the edge you'd like a copy of that wouldn't you

No thank you And Orbital Only one book about Greece That is The Greeks by James Petitfa I'm so pleased the tradition continues And you've made me wonder What tourists leave in British holiday lets Susanna

That is a very good question And if you run a British holiday let will you just take a picture of the type of books that maybe visitors from the continental Europe are leaving on our little bookshows but that's pretty... I would say that is... It's absolutely Brits abroad. Yeah, that's the ultimate.

I mean, you can whiff the deck shoes, can't you? Very much so. You just know who's been to that place. Yeah, and a polo shirt and some sunburn and some wafting linen. Yeah, and some marriages just slightly fraying at the edges. No, some people just finding... Okay.

The lovely niches of a good relationship on holiday with, I was going to say a little, with a lot of rosé wine. Let's look on the bright side, Jane. Why? Paxos, I suppose I haven't, I wonder where you'd get to, would you get there from Athens? I don't know where that is? But we, of course, in Britain have Paxo, don't we? Which is the easy to make stuffing.

And I wonder if they got that from the Greek island. of Paxos. Yeah, where's the word Paxo come from? I can't get my kids to eat anything other than Paxo. You know, sometimes there's a very, very complicated chestnut stuffing thing that's done by Jamie Oliver or Nigella, which other people are raving about. And honestly, we just can't beat Paxo in our fight.

So even for a really posh, pull out all the stops, Christmas dinner, you know, for about 18 years, I wouldn't bother to make my own stuffing, would you? Oh, good Lord. No, I've never made it. stuffing in my life. Let's not talk about that kind of thing just at the moment. That's unlike you. You don't want to start talking about Christmas? I don't actually at the moment. Let's leave that to sort of the 22nd of December.

Now Rachel was our intrepid younger listener. It's been quite a week for younger contributors to off-air and we greatly appreciate them. Rachel was camping out in Botswana. We were just wondering because she'd seen quite a lot of animals and she'd certainly heard them overnight. How protected she was in just a tent. Well, she's been back in touch and we're grateful for that. You are with a guide, she says, who sleeps nearby and a bright light is on the whole time in the area, which supposedly wards off the larger animals. It was such an experience and despite feeling very much in nature, I did feel safe and the guides who set it all up really know their stuff. Lodges offer a touch of luxury, but like Fee mentioned, I've never seen the stars quite like the ones I saw at the weekend,

nor have I experienced a more spectacular sunrise and having seen both while camping made it feel all the more special and yes she sent us this image and it does look absolutely lovely doesn't it? It really does. It does look quite remote. So Rachel, glad you're having a good time

but what a wonderful experience for you. Seriously, how fabulous. Right, final one from me. This is from Anita who wrote in about the Channel 4 documentary and Anita has put it in inverted commas the word documentary and I think we're going to do as you do in the email

and not even mention the woman's name let's just not give her any more publicity but this is the one about pornography just a few words about this awful Channel 4 program I watched it because I wanted to have my own opinion about it and frankly I regret it I can't believe that national television did that kind of program it was awful disgusting and I agree she's not well

never mind her her mother was there and she said she's proud of her daughter. What a pathological family. She put all of them on the payroll so they do benefit from what this girl is doing. How can that be available for everybody? If you click, I'm over 16 or 18, you can watch it. And I completely agree with you, Anita. That is not an age restriction. That is just a pathetic SOP to broadcasting. To off-com. Regulator. Yeah. It is, it is, it does nothing. No 16-year-old, 15-year-old. 14-year-old, 8-year-old, is ever going to say, I'm not old enough to watch this.

I mean, it's catnip for young people that expression. So with you on that, I'm shocked, disgusted and simply don't understand how the mother can be proud of her daughter doing what she's doing. Now she's planning to have sex with disabled people. I don't have enough words in my English vocabulary to say how shocked I am that this programme is available on national television, and it almost glorifies what she does. woman with a mission, how low have we had to fall in this world? Is there no shame?

Anyway, I'm glad you said what you said today because I feel exactly the same. I'm a mother and if my daughter did something even similar to that, I would probably end up in a psychiatric hospital. Her mother is proud of her and there are many, many, many exclamation marks after that. And Anita ends by saying Channel 4 should be shamed for this documentary. We'd welcome other thoughts. if you completely disagree with us we will happily read your

emails and I'd like to hear a different point of view actually I'm not entirely sure anything is going to challenge where I stand on this but I would be interested to hear people who might not be quite so shocked and just saddened by

the actions of this woman but for me it's definitely been crossing over onto terrestrial television available to everybody that's made me see. Well let's just bring in Mark, who's got his own perspective. He says, I'm a gay man, I'm aware and concerned about the link between violence against women and the type of porn that's currently widely available. However, I'm also struck that discussions on this seem to make the assumption that all porn features women,

and this isn't the case. While I assume some gay porn is also having negative impacts on the way men behave, this doesn't seem to be the focus of concern. Also, while I agree that something needs to be done to tackle violent and abusive porn, I question if blanket restrictions on all porn, including those that don't feature women or are more so-called vanilla in nature, is necessarily the best approach to ensuring women's safety. The cynic in me also raises an eyebrow at how these restrictions are requiring people to hand over personal information to faceless internet companies, which I feel would raise serious concerns in any other situation.

Well, that's a view. Thank you for that, Mark. I guess the truth is, I mean, I must hand over my personal details however many times a day. I'm not searching for porn, so I suppose, but I don't know. What is, I mean, Mark, get back to us. What do you think might help? Well, yeah, what people are worried about there, though, is the kind of the possibility for the content that you watch them being used against you. That's the thing, isn't it? I mean, let's place it. There are plenty of, I am going to say, plenty of men in this case, who wouldn't want their partners to have a clue what they were searching for on the internet. And I'm sure there are some women, Jane. Yeah, no, I'm sure. I mean, actually, you can extend it to, you know,

there are plenty of people who don't want their partners to know what they're spending money on. Let's leave it at that. And it could be any kind of thing, couldn't it? It could be. Do you know, I did hear somebody say, and this is a conversation for another time, and we'll happily pick it up next week or the week after. I'm not here next week. actually. So maybe the

week after, or you can talk about it with Jamal. I have. My mum's written a note. She's addressed it to you. This is Garvey. I look forward to you. And I am excused until Tuesday the 19th of August, in fact. I heard somebody with a very big brain say about our online

safety act that at least we've tried to do something. So countries around the world are trying to do things. An awful lot of countries have road back because there are these problems of loopholes in the age verification. of difficulties in promising that you're going to prosecute individuals within companies in some countries that breaks a human rights law, all that kind of stuff.

But at least we have done something. So it enables us to have a debate. And I would so much rather that there was an act that had gone through Parliament, that now we can see what might happen. And that act doesn't have to stay. No, we can modify it. Extant for years and years and years. It can be changed.

So at least we're trying. let's not be too kind of disparaging about that and also I think it's exposed the extreme lack of the right kind of people being in Parliament and being involved in the legislation and that's quite a good thing too we should own our ignorance because it's getting us into trouble I think you've ended on a high

you've got your holiday coming up where are you going this time so we are off to Portugal and Portugal how wonderful Hang on. Parish Notices. Is there a jingle for that? No, thank God. Right. It's the book club tomorrow. We are discussing the wonderful, I don't think we're going to pretend otherwise, are we? The wonderful book, Leonard and Hungry Paul by Ronan Hessian. And the podcast tomorrow will include your emails on the subject and an interview with the author. And then what comes everybody's way on Friday? Well, it is our interview about HRT with Professor Mukagi, and she's an endocrinologist, and we put to her quite a lot of the questions that you have put to us, and hopefully we shed a little bit of light on a very, it appears to be still quite a mysterious subject.

It is. I mean, Professor Mukagi was really interesting, and I think she answered the questions very honestly, but there is still debate, I think, to be had about quite where we are with all this. and thank you, by the way, for the emails about HRT and attitudes towards it elsewhere in Europe. We'll do those next week with Jamal. Absolutely, you will. And then we should just apologise in advance.

We are a slightly bumpy ride through until September, aren't we? But bear with us. Speak for yourself. Well, because you're off again, aren't you? In September. Yeah. Yeah, but mid-September. People don't need to be alarmed.

It's a way off. I've got some good guests on the programme next week, by the way. Abigail Leonard has written this really interesting book called Four Mothers about having a child in. in various different parts of the world, in the States, in Finland, and in two other countries. I've now temporarily forgotten, but it's a really interesting book just about how experiences differ.

So that's next week. Also on the programme next week, Val McDermid. She's a good booking. Celia Imri, wonderful woman, and Nicholas Sturgeon, that is. So, you know, we've got some good stuff. Very much so. So let's also give a very, very big hope. for a man who, Adrian Dunbar.

Adrian Dunbar has fixed his place in the firmament of stars on our screen with his performances and hear my song and line of duty and on stage in Kiss Me Kate. And now we can treat ourselves to Moore Ridley on ITV, second series up now, where Adrian plays a cop with a tragic past sorting out the criminal fraternity of a northern town.

Adrian, you're very welcome on the program and the podcast. How are you? I'm very well thanks I'm just back from three weeks in the north-west of Ireland where it has to be said wasn't as warm as it was here when I left but on the other hand

we had some fabulous skies and wonderful empty beaches to walk on and yeah thoroughly enjoyed myself well I hate to drag you back into the world of work from what sounds like an idyllic break but let's talk about Ridley Tell us just a little bit more about what has happened to your character's family because actually it's incredibly tragic, isn't it?

It is a very tragic start to the whole story, given that his wife and daughter both die in a tragic fire. And in series one, the reasons for that and the wise and the worse for that were played out. And now we find him in season two, several, a couple of years on. I wanted to show some movement with him in terms of the grief, obviously, that he's carrying. But at the same time, it opens with a conversation about that in episode one, but very quickly gets on to him getting called back in. There's a burglary.

There's then a murder that leads to a kind of criminal gang investigation. But there's a young woman who's implanted from the police. And there's this kind of thing, which is when you lose, sometimes you can't believe you've lost someone. And in a way, Ridley can't believe he's lost his daughter. He can reconcile himself to the fact that his wife has gone. But he feels it very, very difficult, the idea of losing his daughter. I knew someone at one point in my life who had lost his daughter in a car accident, but couldn't get over it and kept thinking that he was going to turn a corner and she was,

he was going to turn a corner and she'd be there and it was very unstable it was an unstable place for his mind to be and we kind of echo this in episode one where for a second Ridley believes that the girl he's looking at maybe his daughter for kind of it's a very strange condition but that sort of happening in episode one along with a number of other things of course which is that John Mickey joins our cars playing the guy who owns the jewellery shop. He then has an eye for Julie Graham. Yeah. Now, as soon as he comes on the screen, Adrian, I'm thinking you're a chancer, aren't you?

There's just something about it. It's the jewelry shop. I think he may be wearing slip-on shoes. I think he's driving a Jaguar car. All the signs are there. Yes. No, you're absolutely right. John is absolutely fantastic in the role.

And of course, you know, you think, oh, come on, Ridley, you know, you can't just go chasing this guy down thinking he's got something to do with it, that it's an inside job. Surely the real reason you're annoyed is because he's kind of making eyes at Annie. And so therefore there's that running through it. And we have our fabulous songs from Richard Hawley. And we also have, you know, Brono War and George Bakari and all the wonderful actors

who are within the police department. So, yeah. There's a lot going on. And, Adrian, for people who've not seen the first series, do you want to just explain about the songs because your character sings, we know that you can really sing. And this is really woven into the series,

isn't it, in the form of a jazz club? Yeah, it is. Well, the idea was, listen, we're going to be shooting this in the winter, north of Manchester, up in the hills, which will be pretty cold and it's going to look a bit desolate. We should have somewhere warmer to take the audience every Sunday.

And we come up with the idea of the jazz club, of the music, that this was something he was organising with Annie for his retirement. And I suggested that, well, why don't we, why doesn't he get up now and again do a song? That's what he was always wanting to do. Why doesn't he keep doing that? And the big stroke of luck we had was really, realizing that Richard Hawley's songs in particular suit the character really well.

Richard writes these amazing songs. Most of them are dealing with male grief. And they sort of suit the program really well. But also, in over the 90 minutes, they give you a great chance to compress time. And so when we play the songs, which spookily do tend to throw some resonance on the story itself, They also compress time, which is brilliant in a TV show. You're known for your singing and you can really sing and it's been your passion since you were very young. Take us back to the days of Breeze in Northern Ireland.

Or was it The Breeze, which was an original band you were in. The Breeze. Forgive me, Adrian, forgive me. We weren't that radical of just saying Breeze. Well, that was a bit 2025 of me, wasn't it? What kind of music did you play? And did you hope to really make it as a band? No, I don't think there was any kind of hope to make it.

It was just a fabulous thing when you're 15 and 16 to be with two of your mates, you know, travelling out to kind of local pubs and playing country music because we were into country music where before it became fashionable. So we like people like Johnny Cash and Chris Christopherson and Merle Haggard and Hank Snow. You know, and before all these guys, you know, became, you know, suddenly popular in the last 20 years we were listening to them because we lived in the country here. We lived in a country town.

People like country music. So that's where I started. And, and it was great fun. You know, you were getting paid. You know, you can afford to buy yourself a pair of jeans on the Saturday. And then again, you know, it was like kind of the first, you know, our first gigs. And then beyond that, then I went and played with a guy called, Frank Chisholm, who was an Elvis Presley impersonator, and I played bass guitar and sang back

in vocals with Frank. We played all over Ireland, and we had a great time playing, you know, and people love Presley songs, you know, and they come out to dance to them. And we actually went to New York in about 1979. We played in Dirty Nellies in the Bronx. It was quite an interesting time to be in New York, as you can imagine. And, you know, so then I came back and I got, I was interested in amateur dramatics at the time locally. And I got an audition to the Guildhall School and music and drama. And as luck would have it, I got in. And that was, uh, luck's got nothing to do with Adrian's pure talent, pure talent. And did your music when you were with the breeze carry any kind of a political message, music across Ireland and

Northern Ireland often does and for good reason on on both sides no that was not a period to be playing political music especially in the kind of through the 70s you know you did not want to alienate any audience you were playing with and so therefore yeah we just played straight country music what people like to hear in bars you know people their lives were tough enough they were living under enough stress without being reminded of what was happening outside. And so therefore, you know, when they came to a bar and they came to the pub to hear music, it was to get away from it all, really. I know that you did an interview with the Times newspaper, which was out last weekend, where you mentioned that you were going to see kneecap with your daughter, excited

by the prospect. Do you think that the BBC was wrong not to stream their Glastonbury performance? Were they wrong not to stream it? I think that's a question for the BBC, not for me, but I do think that everybody got too heated about them. You know, I think everybody jumped to conclusions about them. I think, you know, I think there are, you know, they're a band, they're good musicians, they make great music. They're promoting the Irish language. They're very clear about who they support and who. they don't support and yeah we had a great time there but you know those decisions are for the BBC

okay it was a very interesting piece that you did Adrian and you did also say in it something that I think might stick with me for a very long time just talking about the passage that men go through in their lives and the mental health of men you said men don't have these staging posts through their lives where they know they're progressing as a person the way the way that a woman does. And I wonder whether you'd tell us a little bit more about that observation and maybe what that's meant to you. Well, I suppose, you know,

I did a lot of research in the early 90s on alternative medicine. And so I read a lot. And I read a lot of stuff that was coming out of something that was called the men's movement at the time. And one of the things that they talked about was that you know you know women go through these three definite stages of their lives where they progress and a lot of it has got to do with pain and pain

does tend to make you articulate whereas in primitive societies they realize that boys don't necessarily do this I mean you know the birth of your first child is fabulous and you know going doing things things like going to war might be seen as rights of passage, but really there isn't one for young men. And so therefore primitive societies invented one where at the age of 12, 13, 14, they'd drag the young boys away from their mothers and they'd put them through various trials and so forth. And at the end of it, they would say, right, that's it. You're a man now. You're moving on into your life and you're going to have different responsibilities. But I think

Men kind of have this, they deal with grief. They don't know where it's coming from. It's kind of this amorphous thing that they all have. It tends to make them inarticulate. And, you know, I think those, I just think there's something in that. I think there's something to talk about there and to think about. And maybe we have to find ways to, if you like, initiate young boys to make them, realise that they're crossing a threshold in some way.

Yeah. Do you feel like a very different man now you're older to the man that you were when you were younger? Oh yeah, yes, yes. I'm glad to say that, you know, I have been on some on a journey, you know, I'm glad to say that I've, I feel I've changed as a person, you know initially you know coming from the background that I came from and so forth I was just everything was just great because everything was a progression and then eventually you get to a place where you don't feel that you're progressing you know that life hasn't got a you know CVs tend to be and then I did in there I didn't they leave out all the bits where it's really difficult and you're struggling

And I think that those things, you know, the bits where you struggle and the bits that you have to overcome a bit of adversity are the things that kind of change you and, you know, turn you into someone else, hopefully, you know, maybe more sensitive, more understanding, you know, those elements that need to come into your life for you to progress as a person. And what would the younger Adrian Dunbar think of the older Adrian Dunbar being regarded as a real sex symbol? Yeah, I mean, I think you'd find them very funny. And, yeah, I think basically just find it funny. It's the only thing you can do, really. How does that manifest itself? I mean, is there a woman of a certain age who sees you in a supermarket and just, faint.

Yes, no, you know, you tend to know your demographic, don't you? It's us. What is it that makes you so brilliant at being a good cop in a bad place? Yeah, who gave you that question? That's my question. A good cop in a bad place. I don't know. I think Jed Mercurial's got quite a lot to do with it.

You know, he wrote a character at a time when, and it's, you know, still feels a bit like it. There's a paucity in professional life of the understanding of civic duty. And, you know, the idea that there was someone there, like Ted Hastings, who was prepared to do the right thing, excuse me, at the, you know, at a difficult time. I think appealed to people. I think people appreciated the fact that someone had written a character who was willing to put their job and put their morals and put, you know, their morals and put, you know, first and foremost. And sometimes against the detriment to themselves.

And can you tell us any more about when line of duty might hit our screens again? It's not been definitively recommissioned by the BBC, has it? No, it hasn't been definitive. There's nothing definitive about it. We get these questions every day as it coming back. You know, and they're great questions and they're kind questions. They come from the fans. And so, you know, rather like everybody, you know, I hear rumors and things and, you know,

and I hear, oh, right, okay, that's a bit of news there or a bit of news here. But ultimately, you know, and yet you want. You want to give the fans some hope that it's coming back. But I think I just checked with my agent this morning and there is really no definitive news on line of duty. Okay. Well, we're just going to pretend that you haven't said that and just carry on the hoping and hoping and hoping for it to emerge.

I'm going to read you a couple of text messages that we've got from our shared demographic here, Adrian. Tracy says, what is it about that velvety seductive? Irish voice that is pure catnip, please pass me the smelling salts. And Mary says, are you still with us, Tracy? And Mary says, please tell Adrian, I've loved him since I first saw him in Hear My Song, a wonderful movie from the 90s. Joseph Flot was my father's favourite singer. My father's party piece was always, I'll take you home, Kathleen, which was also my mother's name, great memories. So how fantastic is that? So you've got rid of it. You've got rid of then up on the ITV at the moment.

It's interesting, isn't it, Adrian? That we're told that we've got shortened attention spans and TikTok's only three minutes long and all that kind of stuff. But actually, the feature-length episode, and they are feature-length episodes each time, have proved to be incredibly popular. Yeah, yeah, they really work. Well, they give us a chance to develop stories.

You know, usually within the hour format, you're getting the kind of who, why, where and what, and the actual, you know, the scaffolding of a kind of a kind of crime. Whereas, you know, with the extra half hour and the compression that the songs allow us to do, it really does feel like, you know, you're getting your meat and potatoes and your dessert for it. It's a really good evening. And we can develop storylines with the individual characters, how they feel about each other. Yeah, it really does work. Now, Kate McCann, who is our superstar breakfast show presenter here on Times Radio,

was really thrilled to hear that you were on the station. She doesn't fit the demographic, actually. She's about half our age, apart from anything else. She's got a couple of questions for you. Is there anyone you wouldn't or couldn't play on screen? And she has put in brackets, Trump, question mark. I don't know. Do I have the hair for it?

I probably could. Oh, I think you could. I think you could. You could waft that around quite nicely. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I think, yeah, there are certain characters who, certain characters who would just be too dark, I think, to attempt. Wouldn't like to go there. I admire the actors who do. I don't think I would. But yeah, I mean, that's probably about it. But, you know, everybody else you can have a go at, can't you? But, you know, you have to have something that you can bring to it. And I think, you know, people who are casting will. We'll always look to see if there's something that's quite close to you. I think that always helps.

Yes, and you might be quite far apart from Donald Trump. And do you want to be the next bond? Do I want to be the next bond? No, yeah, that's a very tricky one. And I think Martin Comstance should be the next bond to tell you the truth. It's about time we had another Scottish bond after Conner. I think Martin would be really good and I just love the idea

of him having to get down the gym. Okay, right. It's so nice to talk to you, Adrian. Thank you very much indeed for your company this afternoon. I know that our listeners have really enjoyed it to. Adrian Dunbar and you can see him fronting up Ridley on ITV and then we will all be glued.

Our buttocks will be glued to our sofas for the arrival of the, Is it going to be the last ever? Do you know what? Can I say... No, because if you're going to pour more water, cold water, on something that everybody else enjoys, I've absolutely had it. Planet of the Earth, of the What's It, of the David Attenborough,

has been ruined by you now. No. If you didn't enjoy it, shush. I didn't... Shush! Lots of other people did, goodbye. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times radio.

The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.