Off Air... with Jane and Fi - A terrifying 183% (with Richard Hammond)

Episode Date: February 21, 2024

Jane nearly chokes on a piece of seaweed but once she's past that, they discuss eradicated dandruff, sourdough and penis enlargement. They're joined by Richard Hammond to discuss the penultimate episode of his Amazon Prime show - 'The Grand Tour: Sand Job'. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi Assistant Producer: Eve Salusbury Times Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's a piece of seaweed gone down the wrong way. I've got one of those spicy, it's very, very, it's a miso soup. It's a spicy soup. I'd never heard of miso soup until about a year ago. Now I have it almost every day. But a little bit, because it's... This is the super, super spicy one. Yeah, do you know what, I might photograph that and just put it up on the Instagram,

because you've got lots of that seaweed. And if you get one of those flakes of seaweed stuck on the top of your mouth, it can be there for months, can't it? Oh gosh, just think of the microbes though. It'd be good for me, wouldn't it? It's like that sourdough. We did an interview about sourdough yesterdayough neither of us understood a word of it it was a fantastic woman who basically got a doctorate in yeast um but but there was so much going on so you could she said you could bake individual bread based on sourdough starters to suit your personal gut biomes yes that's the theory and i can't just can't understand how anything can really survive the heating up process that

much to be individually tailored to my personal gut bio i can't be the only person alive who just misses a white crusty loaf makes the best toast toast. Sourdough, not that interested. I know I should be more invested. I actually find it a disappointing mouth clang, if I'm really frank with you. It's definitely a chew-a-thon. It's not my favourite. Not my favourite at all.

It can't beat a bagel. That's what I'm saying. There was a feature on bagels in the Daily Mirror the day before yesterday. Well, you know that the really famous bagel shop in Brick Lane... I know it's closed. Yeah, it's closed. And there is much, much sadness in the hood. But it might reopen.

It's a slightly difficult story to understand. Anyway, look, I think there's a family difficulty, isn't there? There's trouble. There's trouble in bagels. Is there? Well, and families, as we all know, Fi, are not perfect. Well, we're not related. No, but I think we'd be the first to acknowledge that whilst our own family units are perfect,

we're aware of other people who do have problems. How sad it must be for them. It's just like the bloody Waltons with me. Yes, carry on. Can I just say one final thing about sourdough? You know, sometimes you'll cut into a loaf of sourdough and there'll just be the most enormous hole. Hole, yeah, exactly.

Where the yeast has had a great big belch, but it's not been taken off the price of it. But our lady guest, who was absolutely an expert on sourdough, she looked the part and she was in a beautiful book-lined office. There were lots of books on her shelf, almost all of which were about bread, I noticed. So she lives a life just surrounded by her passion. Wonderful, really.

Yeah, I really, really, really hope that she doesn't develop a gluten intolerance. Oh, my God. Imagine the irony there. She also had a really lovely cat on the sofa. Everything just looked lovely. But we were concentrating, kids. No, I just think, why, you know, why?

To live that professional life, to pursue your passion, it's wonderful, isn't it? Yeah. Well, we were talking in the office, weren't we, seriously about PhDs that we'd actually do if we ever had a chance to actually do one. And yours would be on? The Power and Influence of Smash Hits magazine.

There you go. So you could devote yourself to that further down the line. I want to do one about what happens when local news disappears and what falls into the void. Yeah, the difference between you and me is I'm not going to do that PhD and you might do yours. Yeah, I'd really like to do mine. Yeah, I would.

But also because I really want to go and visit all those places, maybe in outer Wisconsin, you know, that once had the Wisconsin bugle. And I want to find out what happens now. There might be someone listening who'd finance this. Well, can you get sponsored for a PhD? Is that a thing? I don't know. But somebody will know the answer to that as well. Why not? Somebody would. Because you could probably get a book out of that.

Yeah, no, that's true. Right. Enough, enough, enough. More, more, more of you, dear listener. Well, we've got a hard out today. So we know we have to finish at a certain time, which is good discipline, actually, for us, isn't it? It is. Yes.

So it means that somebody very, very well educated from Matt Chorley's team will be banging on the door. Well, they don't bang, do they? They just lurk, really, in quite a sinister way. Semi-threatening, I've got a first-class degree sort of a way. Yeah. That's not a knock at Cambridge, by the way, because I've stopped doing that now.

Well, that's very good. But also, Matt doesn't have a degree and he is the brightest chimp on this network, isn't he? Well, I mean, he claims. No, he doesn't. No, I forgot he didn't have a degree. I don't think I... Did I know that?

No, and I only say that actually because we did the ding-dong, you know, PMQ's unpack, prepack thing today on the programme. Do listen to the afternoon show, 3 till 5, Monday to Thursday, Times Radio, then all of this will make sense. And he was saying that he did a philosophy A-level and he was going to study philosophy at university, but then, you know, the bright lights of journalism attracted him more,

so he didn't go to university. And I would say that he's one of those people that, as a parent, you should kind of draw attention to him if you've got a kid who's a bit uncertain about the value of a university education, because it's not really held him back, Jane. It doesn't seem to have done, no. He's absolutely brilliant, and university is not for everybody.

No. Whereas showbiz is a crevice for practically everybody. Now, can you please do the email about the enhancement to a penile contraption? Okay. It's not the right term. So sometimes it's really lovely when we're sitting in the office reading through the emails and I can hear you burst out laughing

and I always think, I wonder which one it is and this was today's it comes from Sarah who says dear Jane and Fi further to the talk recently of spam emails I've just deleted one in my spam folder titled penis enlargement offering to further my member by 183 percent that's so specific and gorgeous. What an offer! It's just too, that's just too much. I mean, if you were going to click on it, I think maybe you'd get more clicks

if it wasn't something as terrifying as 183%. That's all I read, says Sarah. Didn't click on it, obviously. The mind boggles. I'm a 68- 68 year old woman and was chortling away to myself who are these people well that's the question i asked myself oh we've got all i'm gonna have a look at my spam after we've done this but it'll all be full of women who want to meet me apparently and offers to extend the size of my penis so who are these people they

don't do no quality control there is there no but I just honestly hope that nobody is clicking on that because 183% is just incredibly unrealistic and nobody wants to meet the after in that before and after. Does it remind you of an anecdote we heard the other night? Which we can't repeat. Right, this is about scams. I was listening to your podcast today and the email you read out about the poor woman

whose mum is apparently being drawn into some kind of scam. Well, my dear mum died just before Christmas. I'm very sorry to hear that. But she did have a wonderful way of getting scam callers off the line. And I do think this is golden, so pass it on. When the caller had finished

setting out what they wanted from her and for her to do, she'd just say I can't do any of that. I'm very old and I'm going to die soon. More often than not, they'd just stammer that they were sorry to hear that and would quickly get off the line. It won't help your poor emailer, but it did make me laugh out loud at the time

when Mum told me what she did. So I do think that it's something to have in your locker, isn't it? To blurt out in the appropriate circumstances. It's like I was always told as a child if certain religious folk came knocking, I was to say with great authority, we are a devout Catholic family and we're not interested, thank you, and just shut the door.

Yeah, and I'm with you on that. Yep, yep. So in a similar vein, we always say we've got our own faith. Thank you. And they have. We have have we have we certainly have do you think it would also work to say to the person who's phoning you could you just hang on a minute uh calls may be recorded for monitoring and training purposes are you okay with that that's another good one yeah just put them on the back. I know some people like to keep them on the line

because at least when they're talking to people who can see through them, they're not actually scamming anybody. That's good. That's kind. So, you know, if you do have a bit of time on your hands, why not just talk by them and yourself? Gosh.

But then aren't they sometimes doing that very clever thing where you're actually paying for the call? Oh, my God, are they? Yeah. Okay, well, it's not an option then. There's some number thing that you're actually paying for the call oh my god are they yeah well it's not an option then there's some number thing that you can do isn't it a kind of reverse payment thing where that's actually how they're making the money we've had so many really really lovely and and do you know what really thoughtful and personal responses to the listener who wrote in with her dilemma about having an affair with a married man

who she really, really loves, but is worrying that he's not going to fulfil all of the promises that he once made to her. And do you know what, Jane? I think it just takes quite a lot to send an email to a podcast and you say, you know, I want to remain anonymous and all that kind of stuff, and we will always, always respect that.

But it's still quite a leap of faith, isn't it, to send off your personal story to people. So we're really grateful that people have done that. This will remain anonymous for this person will remain anonymous for very obvious reasons. I was in a similar situation that came to an end just over a year ago. I know that no amount of advice from friends and well-wishers was enough to make me break away from my situation despite their best efforts. I honestly believed I would never love another person or be loved the way that he loved me. I couldn't imagine a world where that was possible. Most likely the man in question is wonderful in lots of ways but he is being very selfish and to some extent she is facilitating this. Leaving will only be possible when that person truly realises that they are worth more. The fact that your listener

has written to you might suggest she's starting to ready herself for thinking differently about the relationship. And here comes some very sensible advice. Leaving the relationship will be excruciatingly painful. Not only will it be wrenching away from a man she loves but it will mean facing life alone initially at least and acknowledging that the last several years have not been leading towards what she was hoping for but it is possible when she's ready to take that brave step I'd advise taking time to let herself grieve for the lost love for the person she was in the relationship and for the future she wanted with this man then take a bit more time to heal surrounding oneself with soothing things and

taking comfort in tiny joys can help i found embracing nature and really seeing what was going on around me to be very calming it's so important to be kind to ourselves and then there's just a really really lovely thing at the end, Jane, where our listener says, I hope that all of this doesn't come across as patronising. I just wanted to send some hope and light from the end of the tunnel that I've come out of. And finally, I'll share some words that resonated deeply with me when I needed to hear them.

Don't accept breadcrumbs of love. Oh, very good. Isn't that lovely? Yeah, of love. Oh, very good. Isn't that lovely? Yeah, you're entitled to the full loaf. You certainly are. Why would you only be the person who can pick up the crumbs off thy table? Yes, and I'm grateful to this listener

for another side of this. I'd like to comment on the plight of the lady having the affair with a married man. I've been on the other side. I discovered my husband of 23 years was having an affair with an exciting younger lady of about 40. And I can only urge your correspondent to get out of this situation as soon as possible. It does seem fairly obvious that the relationship isn't going anywhere and will only bring heartache. I was very lucky, I feel, to have found out,

as there was clearly a serious flaw in my relationship with my husband but we've managed to work things out with the help of an amazing counsellor. 12 years later we have a solid and happy marriage. Our children now have their own children and we're so happy to have grandchildren together which would not be quite so joyous if we didn't have each other to enjoy them. So there you go there's somebody who has been through it and has come out the other side with a good result from the sound of things. And I think it is true, isn't it, that if you do discover that your partner has had an affair, then I guess there probably are questions that you've got to ask yourself.

I think you'd be unwise to not tackle it. Yes, I mean, yes, exactly. So whilst clearly they're the ones who've had the affair and you haven't had the affair, well, let's say it's you that hasn't had the affair, that doesn't mean that you haven't played a part. I'm sounding like I know all there is to know about love. Well, the statistics about, you know, the happy ever after

just don't bear out, you know, our belief in it anymore, do they? So there are hundreds of ways that relationships end. There are all kinds of different endings and if one of them is somebody had an affair but actually everybody ended up happy, then that's good. But our original listener just wasn't happy. That's the point. She wouldn't have written if it was going to be okay

that she just stood around in doorways waiting for him to finish doing his shopping in a strange market town that they'd had to travel to so nobody recognised them. So also, I think lots and lots of our listeners have said exactly the same thing, Jane, that there might be a lonely but kind-hearted, wonderful, entertaining, thoroughbred stallion waiting

and you're not going to meet that person if you are still attached. Don't be someone else's slightly dirty secret because it's just in the end. I mean, I do... There is excitement, let's face it, in subterfuge, isn't there? In a bit of drama. People love it. Yeah, and sometimes...

People get off on it. Sometimes people actually just don't want the whole family thing. They don't want the whole commitment thing. So, you know, I can see that it suits people. And if you are young, free and single, or even old, free and single, do what the hell you like. Can we just talk...

Oh, well, I forgot to mention this, and it's important about scams. Sandra says, love the show, Steve, and we do welcome love the show steve and we do welcome uh love the show steve at the end of every single email to this podcast we do and we're going to do clap around the microphone yeah just as a tribute to steve in love and appreciation for a true radio great uh steve wright uh sandra says just finished listening uh to jane fallon's novel

just got real then i heard your podcast i can't remember if you've interviewed jane but her book is a brilliant story about women who've been scammed by online dating three women are scammed by a man who starts off being charming and generous the women are divorced or widowed and looking for someone to notice them or give them physical attention and they can't believe this man is scamming them it really goes to show how easy it is to be swept up by somebody paying you attention, especially if you're on your own. So there you go. Thank you for that, Sandra. I did know about that book, but I'd forgotten that was the plot. So might be worth having a look at. This one comes from Fionula, who says you discussed meconium memories yesterday,

and the horror of the first nappy change post-birth and she says i gave birth to my daughter during covid in an nhs hospital when partner involvement and visiting was significantly curtailed do you know what i think we're both so sympathetic towards that being your start as a mum in life i think that just must have been so tough really really tough all of the extra anxiety and not being able to have people visit you all the time. So look, well done for getting through it. My husband was allowed to join me only when I was in established labour and dispatched two hours after the event, meaning he missed a few of those very early milestones, first successful feed and so on. Eager to ensure that he didn't feel left out, I took a picture of our child's first production to send to him,

cut to three years later, and we have a regular reminder of said event as the photo frequently pops up on our kitchen Alexa device. Perplexing to visitors, I must say. Long-term listener, love the show. Well, if you knew that that is a whole area of fun. This vision of poo. Yes, comes up on the digital displays.

As you sometimes are, you're given these photo memories. Yes, which just revolve. And my phone does that to me sometimes, Jane. Yes, mine does. And apart from sending me anniversaries that I really am no longer celebrating. Really not. No. But thanks, Google.

The other day, it sent me a fantastic shot saying do you remember this and it was just an area of damper which I hate that about this time in our lives oh it's I wish they'd stop yeah because I think sometimes those photo memories I mean you you know you talk about memories of anniversaries you don't want to be reminded of. They can be very insensitive, those memories, at times. Hugely so. I mean, they send you pictures of people who've died.

Yes. And, you know, without the context, it's absolutely horrible. And can I just do a shout-out, actually, to the companies who are thoughtful about this? One of them is Don't Buy Her Flowers, which is the present company that's run by... Steph. Steph Douglas, who's a friend of ours,

and we've worked with her. She's a really terrific woman. And I got one of her mail-out emails the other day saying, you know, is it difficult for you to receive stuff from us about Mother's Day? Oh, I've had some of those, and you're right. And I just thought, how fantastic, because that's just so awful if this is a difficult time for you.

It's the year after you've lost your mum, whatever it is. And I just thought, well done. Well done, you. We've been reminiscing about underwear. And I think it's just... Because neither of us wear it anymore. I am not commando. No, certainly not.

I'll make it very clear that would be the last thing. But Alison just says I haven't worn a slip I haven't worn a slip for years. However, recently I thought the short

dark M&S one which had lurked at the bottom of the drawer would make the dress I was wearing to my sister's funeral a little more respectable. The elastic was a bit loose

but it was holding up okay. As next of kin and the closest relative, I headed a small family group with my two sons beside me as we walked to the church behind the coffin. It wasn't long before I felt my footsteps somewhat impeded. I looked down and there was the slip around my ankles. Oh, God. I mean, this is... I'm so sorry this happened.

Quick as a flash, though, one son bent down, picked it up and stuffed it into his father's pocket. My sister would really, really have laughed and we would have enjoyed the joke for years to come. Alison, we are so sorry to hear about your sister, but for what it's worth, I think we're both with you. If that would have made your sister chuckle, good. Maybe that's the sign that she sent you,

that she'll always be with you and your unelasticated undergarments. Yeah, but there are dangers in wearing some of these things that have, as Alison says, lurked unloved at the bottom of drawers for many a year. But thank you for that. It's a cracking story and I'm really sorry to hear about your sister. So we've got a hard out today because the studio is going to be required

by far more cerebral programmes than this. With fewer listeners. Oh, no, sorry. We do need to go. Just slipped out. We need to go into Richard Hammond in just a couple of moments. Well, it's quite a thought. Can I?

Do you know what? I'm not joining in with your nastiness. It's not nasty. OK. And I'm not joining in with your nastiness. It's not nasty. Okay. We really, he surprised us actually, didn't he? Would you say? Yes, he did.

Yeah, I enjoyed his company. I'm back in the room. Okay. Yes, he surprised us. Okay, Jane. This is a fantastic thing to throw out. It's a universal truth that's been said out loud. It's from Marie, who says, listening to the podcast, the rest is history with some other people.

Amen. They were discussing, amongst other things, the look of politicians in the 1970s, which they described as having large framed glasses and dandruff. The snow storm on the collar was quite a thing. And I remember when the priest used to occasionally visit our house in the late 1960s, early 70s, and we'd be fascinated by the dusting of white around his shoulders.

I think we put it down to the fact he probably didn't have a mirror so wasn't aware of it. But is dandruff still out there? Come in, dandruff! Come in, Dandruff! Come in! Or have modern day grooming products eradicated this? Well, it makes you fear the head and shoulders, doesn't it? Well. Unless it's actually

done its job. But it is true. You see a lot less Dandruff around. What's going on? That's making a good point. So thoughts about that, please, would be great. Did you actually... Making a good point. So thoughts about that, please, would be great. Yes. Did you used to see people in prominent positions in public life with dandruff on them?

Very much so. Did you? Okay. Priests I can accept because apart from their housekeeper, they didn't have anyone to look after them. But I'm with them. So the rest of this history is presented by Dom and Tom, isn't it? but i'm with um so the rest is history is uh presented by dom and tom isn't it so i'm i'm with them you used to see i think on quite a lot of the tv shows when very very serious men talked about very very serious things uh and i'm sorry that i wasn't paying

attention to those things because i remember he's like oh look look at his shoulder what's happened but dandruff is caused by is It's dry skin on the scalp. It's a flaky scalp, isn't it? Flaky scalp, yeah. It's not psoriasis, which some members of my family have. That's no laughing matter. It's a very annoying psoriasis, actually. That's a kind of stress-related...

It can be on the scalp and elsewhere. But dandruff was a sort of comic, very minor ailment that obviously they invented a product to cure. Yeah, but it is true as well. Well, Claudia does the ads, doesn't she? She does, I don't think. Does she do the ads? She definitely did, didn't she?

Head and shoulders. Yes, but I don't think, they don't really, she was never really selling it as, oh, I had dandruff and now look at me, I don't. She was just like, I've got great hair and now it looks even greater. Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of products. You've got to be a little careful about what it is that they're claiming to cure.

So Emma Forbes used to advertise Head & Shoulders. And somewhere in my great big stack of carts that I kept, we've got a little cart because... You better just define cart. Went to the launch of Head & Shoulders. So it's the cassette, the big magnetic cassette that you used to record small bits and pieces on in radio studios so you could then slam them in.

So you had a cart stack and there'd be... You always had them for the news, didn't you? So you had 30 seconds of somebody talking and it was recorded on a cart. I'm finding this very erotic. Yeah, I know. Well, actually, if I brought in my box of tricks, Jane, I think you'd be there for hours. But we've got a cart of Emma Forbes just going,

sniff my hair, sniff my hair. Because that's what she said on it. No, that's what she said at the launch. She invited us to sniff her hair. It's like being licked by Emma Freud, isn't it? Difficult times we've lived through but we're having help so please don't worry too much about us so here we go Richard Hammond started his media career in a place very familiar to both me and

Jane the hot seat of local radio it was on the advice of a motoring journalist who came on his radio Lancashire show as a guest that he decided to try his hand at the reviewing the car thing and he's gone on to become one of the most recognisable faces on TV. Millions of loyal fans of both Top Gear and its reincarnation as the Grand Tour, and just millions really. The Grand Tour is coming to an end though. The final film has been made in Zimbabwe. That's in post-production.

The penultimate one is now up on the Amazon Prime. It's called Sand Job, and it's filmed across Mauritania and into Senegal following some of the path of the Paris Dakar Rally. So when Richard popped in to talk all of this through with us, we started by sharing with him our plans to begin our own lady motor show, provisionally called Talk Talk. I think every pun on the word talk has been played, to begin our own lady motor show, provisionally called Talk Talk. I think every pun on the word talk has been played,

but you might have a new one. I think it has. You might have a new one. On the subject of titles, who was it who came up with Sand Job? Not me. Do you know what? I've only just got it.

Yeah, it's childish. Oh, no, it really is. The honest truth, because the titles have been great, Lockdown, they've all been great fun. And a lot of the times, it's actually been Amazon people who've come up with titles. Not always, but it's not often does the channel provide ideas like that. You'll know that in our jobs.

With the best will in the world, you don't lean on the broadcaster or the channel for the creative. It's what we do darlings. But occasionally they do and yeah, for some reason Amazon are very good at thinking of titles for things. They probably have a huge department doing nothing else. Well, I was going to say there'll be many, many meetings and imagine the fist bumps when they came across that. Oh yeah, they'd be very pleased. So do you want to explain why Sand Job is such a good title?

It's a good title because there was a lot of sand. We did it in Mauritania, which I'd never been to. Well, you didn't even think it was a real country. Why? Does it sound real? Can you place it on the map for everybody, please? West Africa. Close, close, bordering. Senegal.

Right. It's just above Senegal, isn't it? Yeah. And so right on the fringes of the Sahara. In fact, a lot of the Sahara is in it. Hence, sand. There's a lot of sand. It's about four times the size of the UK, maybe more, but a population of about four million. So you can imagine everybody's very well spread out and there's just a lot of sand.

So you were attempting to recreate... I haven't solved that very well. I'm getting you back on track here. But help me out. Yeah, I'm sorry. Okay, so you're attempting to do a bit of the Paris-Dakar rally in modified cars. That's the kind of... The Paris-Dakar rally was sort of 80s, 90s, it peaked.

That was a race from Paris to Dakar. So a lot of it was rally raid driving, which is where they drive at huge speed over rough, rocky and sandy terrain. Very exciting. It was very much of its time. So we wanted to recapture that. And at the moment,

several car manufacturers are coming up with their own sort of rally raid style versions of supercars. There's a Lamborghini one, there's a Porsche 911 one, and they're very, very expensive. And we set out to ask one of our stupid questions, cars there's a lamborghini one there's a porsche 911 one and they're very very expensive and we set out to ask one of our stupid questions which was um these things cost 250 300 000 pounds can we build one for less as soon as we asked a question like that you know we're going to prove

that you can't but we tried so your car is an aston martin, my car was completely unsuited to the job. Aston Martin DB9 Vantage. What colour was it? Sort of dark greyish, but mostly sand. Did it have a coffee cup holder? It did. And there endeth my questions about cars. My kind of car. But the thing is, you don't have to be into cars to watch our show.

We've long said that, because we do that for you. We've always said, you don't have to be a car nerd to watch our show. We do that for you we've always said you don't have to be a car nerd to watch our show we do that for you and that's one of the reasons it works because if you think i'll watch that pottery show on television i'll watch shows about baking i don't care about baking but the people on it do and that carries me along often i don't understand what they're arguing about but i like watching the arguments and the discussion i like watching people who care about things. It's very compelling.

So we've always had that at the heart of what we do. It's an extraordinary watch. It's a very entertaining watch. But I think you get to about halfway through and you realise that you, Jeremy and James, have not had a wee yet in the desert. And I'm not trying to be kind of gratuitously superficial. Jane knows I certainly can uh but but uh but actually it really tells you something about that terrain

doesn't it that yes the heat of the desert can't really come across on television you can't you can't portray it's really hard because you can't see i mean if it's cold at least you can see snow and ice but he it's just a nice sunny day but yeah it was 40 odd excuse me 40 odd degrees um all the time and we were we've filmed enough in remote places to know hydration is important and it is but you could you could watch somebody drink a bottle of water and just watch it evaporate out of their head as they drank it you couldn't stay hydrated so did you worry about becoming actually properly unwell? Jane and I were saying just before you came

in, you're definitely the you're the fittest. You're the calmest watch because the other two do look just really calmest because you don't look like I'm about to die in the next thing. That's what you're trying not to say. No, that's what I am saying. That's what you're actually saying. Yes. Yeah, they do look

like they could keel over at any point. Yeah. Yeah, well, we are used to filming in rough terrain. It's funny, I'm talking about it with some of the members of the crew because some of them we've been with for 20-odd years. They've been part of what we do from the start. And we know each other not just from sharing an office together but from each waking up in a tiny nylon tent

full of cockroaches pitched at 30 degrees in a ditch. So in Mauritania, you were not staying in, what passes for a decent hotel in Mauritania? No, there weren't hotels, nothing. So you did camp? Yeah, yeah, but there was no choice. Again, people imagine, yeah, but when somebody says,

cut your helicopter off to the hotel. Or a Winnebago. No, we're in the desert. I mean, the camping is, it's big, because there's about 100 of us. I mean, it camping is, it's big because there's about a hundred of us. I mean, it's a huge crew now. Just to be able to film it. So it's a small village that

we set up, but it's camping, yeah. Which I love, the others hate. What I really like is the dynamic, because of your height, and neither Fien or I are blessed with stature. I'm not overly burdened with height. Well, none of us are. This is why this is working so well. It's great because

I can all see into each other's eyes. Eye to eye combat. That they always seem to make you stand with the other two and that always means you have to look up

in a semi-adoring way at Clarkson and May. But how else could they do it? I feel slightly unwell now. Why don't you just demand that you sit down? They're not going to

listen to me. I couldn't demand my way out of a wet paper bag with people who would listen to me, and they certainly shan't. No, you see, I mean, I am, I'm, what, five, seven? But they're about eight foot two. They're both really, really tall, and sometimes people will encounter me, and you can see they're disappointed

because they were expecting a novelty item that you'd hang off a Christmas tree or put on a mantelpiece. But I'm kind of just moderately sure. You're tall, by my standards. In your third age, that's definitely something you could think about. Yeah, that could work. Jane and I have considered it. It's something to do. Could we talk seriously

about the danger element of cars and Freddie Flintoff obviously had a terrible crash on the program that you used to present to and it's clearly left him in a really really bad physical and mental way are you in touch with him would you be able to update us at all i don't have any more information than you've already got um but certainly i feel for the guy it it sounds like a really traumatic accident and a horrible experience.

And I've only ever wished him all the very best from it. I mean, it... But you had something quite similar, didn't you? Yeah, I've had a couple of big ones, but accidents do happen. You know, we were... They went through our systems and protocols very closely and we weren't found wanting because the fact of the matter is

sometimes things do go wrong what what matters then in terms of corporate responsibility and responsibility on the part of those running the show and asking us to do these things is that everything is in place to mitigate the effects should things go wrong i mean for me a tire delaminated and blew at 320 miles an hour. Nobody can stop that. I mean, you could trace that back to a bug that got in the rubber when they tapped the rubber tree or, I don't know, something caused the tyre to delaminate. That was an accident.

But everything that followed from there was great. They had the right contacts in place, they did things in the right order, they got an air ambulance there, everything was done properly. And that's all you can ultimately do, isn't it? But when you got back on your feet after your dreadful accident and the one that left you in a coma, definitely, definitely a very serious experience.

Do people around you want you to stop doing what you do because of the element of danger? Worryingly, no. Go on, Ben. No, because it's what I do I went back to work probably a bit too soon because

recovering from brain injury it's not a precise thing it's not like watching a bone knit or a scar heal

because you can't see it and you know the functionality of your own brain all you've got to assess that with is the brain

do you still feel the impact now yeah probably but it's only in the sense that it's it was one of the significant events in my life we're all a product of our own experiences aren't we that's what makes us up and we all have big moments and small moments whether that's you know births marriages divorces deaths jobs whatever those are the things that make us who we are and for me that was one of them um my memory is not what it was my working memory processing memory is still great i can read a page of script or information and deliver it immediately um but my midterm i'll occasionally lose a week or and i it isn't written down but that's probably just a function of being 54 and

working too hard it might not be anything to do with brain injury. But it might be. It might well be, yeah. They call it lost keys syndrome, and the doctors are very keen to talk about it because for years afterwards, every time I lose my keys or whatever, I'm left thinking, oh, no, that's brain injury related. It's not just lost my keys or forgotten something

or forgotten somebody's name. It's nothing to do with it. But you attribute it to that. But to the critics who might carp, you know, it's nothing to do with it, but you attribute it to that. But to the critics who might carp, you know, this is not, it's an accident that didn't need to happen, we didn't, Freddy Flintoff didn't need to have his accident. Because you don't need to make TV, it's entertainment.

It's a sensical, high-octane, boy's own twaddle. Well, it's not boy's own. There is an element of that which women enjoy, I don't deny it at all, Richard, but it is all something that is highly dangerous as well, And NHS services are called upon to help people out when there are accidents. I'm just putting that side of the argument that all this is trivial and silly, but there are real life consequences. Yes. I mean, you can put that argument

towards any piece of television or entertainment. It's just it doesn't need to happen, does it? Or does it? Is it an expression of something in us? And what we are addressing on the shows we've made traditionally has always been the significance of this invention, the car. We never open it up and examine it thoroughly, but it does resonate. It does chime because what does it do? Well, we need how many things in our life? Shelter, food, companionship, water, resources.

Everything beyond shelter, you have to leave your cave to get. And as a species, we invented a machine that enabled us to go and do that more effectively. And inevitably, if your machine enables you to get to that potential mate, water mate water resource faster than the person next to you it's pretty appealing so it actually it connects with something fundamental to us as creatures and therefore talking about it and reflecting it in television is kind of we do need to do that and the fact that it is visceral and real and physical and we engage with it, it's not digital.

It is fundamental to what we do. I don't think its appeal will ever diminish and therefore taking a well-mitigated, a well-controlled risk, I think, is excusable. And in the knowledge that sometimes it's going to go wrong. You've been doing motoring journalism in one form or another for a very long time. And against that passage of time comes a different understanding of fuel and of car manufacture

and of the impact of the motoring industry. So I wonder how what that kind of journey has been like for you as a journalist? I mean, is there a bit of you that thinks I've contributed to celebrating something that's actually so problematic now well wait a minute um the car isn't and the idea of something that moves us about that facilitates our lives whose story is written now across the planet that's not the baddie the internal combustion engine has never damaged anything it's the fuel and yes something has to be done but i also think you know as we're caught up at the moment um the necessary and inevitable decarbonization of the

transport infrastructure it must happen it must go on we can't keep burning fossil fuel we know that there are alternatives many of them there are full electric vehicles there's hybrid vehicles there's synthetic fuels that can be used in the existing 1.6 billion cars on the road that don't have to be made because they're already made and don't forget the manufacturing of a car has a carbon footprint just as whatever fuel it consumes might do

so these things are solvable and resolvable and it'll be engineering that'll get us out of it have you got an EV? I've had two or three I don't at the moment I've nothing against there can be amazingly exciting vehicles and they have a place in the future I've absolutely no or three. I don't at the moment. I've nothing against them. They can be amazingly exciting vehicles and they have a place in the future.

I've absolutely no doubt. Of course they have. Technology isn't quite there yet. Solid state batteries are coming on. Different forms of battery are coming on. We've got to obviously generate and more importantly, get the electricity to the user. So you've had range anxiety?

Yeah, inevitably. That will be overcome as the range increases and the but don't forget the carbon footprint of installing a distribution network for a new fuel is huge and must sit on the shoulders of those using that electricity obviously so we do have to take a balanced look and do you think that we'll be able to build the same level of entertainment around electric vehicles. And that's not just the kind of thing that you have done yourself, but, you know, the Formula One, that kind of racing element,

the kind of wumpf and sexiness. I think we will. I mean, I don't think it's going to be the only way we go. It can't be. We can't... I saw a fabulous graph that showed by 2050, even if we could continue on the current trajectory of electrification, which we can't because China's withholding the rare earth materials, etc. We can't. But even if we could, by 2050,

the majority of cars on the road would still be internal combustion engine. But we do have synthetic fossil free fuels that can power those. That's not to say electric vehicles can't be exciting. I think when they were, well, don't forget, they predate internal combustion engines. But when it became obvious they were going to have to be increased in number, people were saying,

oh, I'll miss the sound of a V8, it'll never get me in the same way. Actually, the sound of a V8 isn't intrinsically musical or intrinsically good. It's just by association with power and performance. We've made that happen. But there is something magical about it. But only by association.

That's the only reason. I suppose I mean in my heart of hearts yet the howl of a V10 at full chat or a V8 burbling along

is musical should have heard my Fiat Panda what a machine I mean honestly I had a little Fiat Twin Air little two cylinder but listening to that

it spoke to me of efficiency and cheekiness and actually because I'm an anorak you know rugged low down torque depending upon the configuration of the cylinders ok you've gone too far now ok I overdid it of efficiency and cheekiness and actually because I'm an anorak, you know, rugged, low-down torque, depending upon the configuration of the cylinders.

OK, you've gone too far now. OK, I overdid it. I rather like the impersonation. Can you impersonate any car? I wish I could. I'm going to say yes. I'm going to say yes, I can, but then refuse to do it.

Makes me more interested. He's being a little tease now, James. Do you know what I'd like? What do you think this would work for you? If you and May and Clarkson just maybe take a hiatus, leave it 15, 20 years, then I would willingly rejoin you

in a kind of old farts commune where the three of you... We've spoken about that so many times. You'll be looking after the other two. We've talked about doing that. You'll be like a robot para. And you will be doing your mobility scooters, won't you? Yeah, that's what you'll be racing.

Yeah, the line has always been one of us will be i was the first to die yeah we will we will end up in a home together uh what kind of keeping in touch will the three of you do because sand job is the penultimate grand tour isn't it so is it shared holidays oh yeah texts at christmas beach holidays together we're often asked, do you guys hang out? And obviously we do, but that's through work because I think for the last 23 years, there's been years when we were making one

or even two complete series of it. We were never apart anyway because we were always either in meetings planning things or we were in a desert, a jungle. But if you met each other for the first time now,

would you like each other? Oh, we'd still repulse each other. course we would listen one of my favorite moments that i regularly get professionally now um there's a wonderful moment that happens every time we make one of these specials because obviously it's months of planning and working it all out and we all we're all there for the meeting so we're all seeing each other but then we get onto location wherever it is and we've been looking at this place for months, and here we are on the ground. And the crew, there's about 80 people around us.

It's big. And there comes a moment when the director says, action, for us to shoot the first scene. And it's in that moment, as though we all step into this world, that we're there permanently inhabiting together. But then we go and join ourselves in it. And it's an absolutely wonderful moment. And when we're in that world, because we've spent so much permanently inhabiting together, but then we go and join ourselves in it, and it's an absolutely wonderful moment. And when we're in that world,

because we've spent so much time on camera together, we know each other very well. I know when something comes along, if I say whatever, I know broadly how they'll respond. We know instinctively between the three of us which one of us should pick up on something that happens. That's more of a James thing, I'll stay quiet and let him do it, or it's a Jeremy thing.

Or I know if I say this, it'll trigger rage in Jeremy or laughter in James. We know each other well enough to know there's a sort of alive shorthand going on, which saves a lot of messing about. And is there any envy or jealousy between the three of you? No, it's the one thing that there isn't. No, because why would there be? In what way? I wouldn't want to be either of them. They wouldn't want to be me.

No, I don't think there is. We have had different careers outside of what we do together. We always have had. And we don't always watch what the others do because we see enough of them. But no, there's no envy. So you haven't watched Clarkson's Farm or any of James May's brilliant shows?

I have, yeah, of course I have. What is next for you? I'm motorcycling around the Himalayas with my brother for his 50th birthday. I'm actually going on like a grand tour adventure, but for real, not filming it. Yeah. But next for me, work-wise, I'm running Drive Tribe, which is the sort of digital agency that I set up. Well, I set up years ago, but we've rebirthed and it's going really well.

And I make a little show for Discovery Plus about my classic car restoration business. I'm a terrible businessman. It's ruining me. I'm really useless at it. It turns out to be really hard. Who knew? So, yeah, I'm keeping busy. I've 36 years I've worked in and around the media, so I can't do anything else now. What was your best link on local radio?

My first ever one, I've got to find the tape. I've got a cassette tape somewhere of it in 1988 i was hosting last week in north yorkshire on bbc radio york which was a sort of a look back over the week so it's an hour long show and i was 18 and over the week you're gathering together little tapes and then on the sunday all on my little own going into the radio station at the age of 18 sitting in cubicle 1b lift the flap of the middle of the desk and press the red button that makes your desk live. And I was, that's it, I've got control of the radio station. And my first link, it comes out of the news. I play the jingle off the back of the news and you hear me say, hello, welcome to Last Week

in North Yorkshire. I'm Richard Hammond with you until 12 o'clock. Please call if you've been asking people to call in. What a nightmare it must have been if the only news had come from South Yorkshire. Oh, terrible. Oh, shocking. Then I play the first record in, which is Papa Was a Rolling Stone,

and I hit the vocals perfectly, talk up to the intro, hit the vocals, and then slowly you realise I've left the microphone open because you hear me answering the telephone to the first caller. Hello, yes.

And then I go quiet, then I come back on mic and say, oh, that was the first caller, you could be the next one. Absolutely terrifying. You've got to find first caller. Brilliant. And then I go quiet, then I come back on mic and say, oh, that was the first caller, you could be the next one. Absolutely terrifying. You've got to find that cassette. I know, I must. You've got to find that.

And then burn it so that nobody ever... No, no, no. No, okay. Richard Hammond, who, as Fee said earlier, did surprise us. He was very much more likeable than I was expecting. There we are. I've said it, Fee.

Yeah, I have said it. Your colours are very, very firmly tied to the mask now. So the last grand tour is in Zimbabwe, and I don't know when that comes out, but everybody will be very, very across that, and we'll probably have him back in, won't we? Oh, probably, yes. So the search is on for people with dandruff.

If you're one of them, send us your dandruff. Actually, no, no, don't. Jane and Fi at times.radio. Well done for getting to the end of another episode of Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe. And don't forget, there is even more of us every afternoon on Times Radio.

It's Monday to Thursday, three till five. You can pop us on when you're pottering around the house or heading out in the car on the school run or running a bank. Thank you for joining us and we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon. Don't be so silly. Running a bank? I know ladies don't do that. A lady listener. I'm sorry.