Off Air... with Jane and Fi - A urine-soaked bus-stop and a Londis (with Richard Coles)

Episode Date: June 15, 2023

Jane and Fi are about to head off to their belated Christmas dinner... in the middle of June.But they're here with another bumper episode of former Prime Ministers, ventriloquist dummies, and toys banished to the cupboard of history.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] our instagram! @JaneandFiAssistant Producer: Kate LeeTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Good evening from another piping hot London evening. I should say we're just not really used to it. You know the moment you just wake up in the morning and you know it's going to be sunny and it's just a bit

odd i don't even take a coat or a cardigan or a wrap or a shawl to work with me jane i walk out in just my one piece yeah yeah i know so do i with a bra i mean i don't think britain's quite ready for me without a support garment but um nevertheless, it's actually a delight. I'm loving all the vitamin D we're getting in London town at the moment. So I do hope if sunshine is your thing, you're getting plenty of it. Now, in the spirit of transparency, it's been a very big day for political news in the UK, but a very sort of parochial day of news in the sense that a former prime minister has found himself

in a spot of bother. And as usual that a former prime minister has found himself in a spot of bother and as usual that former prime minister is old what's his name what's his chops so boris johnson has been censured by the privileges committee it's a report that he had access to a couple of days ago which is why it feels like slightly weird news, doesn't it? It's catch-up news for us, because we've seen him spitting feathers for the last couple of days. He's spitting tacks. Today, we have all discovered what he's been spitting feathers about.

So the Privileges Committee had suggested that he was suspended from the House of Commons for 90 days, but it flounced out anyway. He'd gone. But he's not going to get his pass for the Palace of Westminster, which just surprised me, Jane, because you and I have left another massive national institution recently. I didn't expect to keep my lanyard for BBC Towers. I've still got my lanyard.

It wouldn't work. But it wouldn't work. It barely worked when I worked there. It's definitely not going to work now. But it is funny that, isn't it? I mean, I wonder, because the truth is, we can't see into the future, as Fee often mentions, my ability to see.

You think you can. I do think I can. But I think the evidence doesn't support that, actually. I really can't. So there are any number of possibilities for this gentleman, aren't there? I mean, he could vanish into obscurity he could become an international entertainer

he could just lie low which is highly unlikely and then suddenly make a reappearance and become potentially prime minister again although you know when you think about it you'd think the man was sort of 28 the way people talk about you know all the possibilities

that may lie ahead for him he's our age he's my age exactly my age i think it's his birthday i think maybe two days before me or something i mean no one talks about me having all these incredible possibilities jane's just about to have her 10th child or is it 11th anyway uh no i mean it's just lives are very, very different, aren't they? And it's as though anything is still possible for this man. Very peculiar, I think. It is. We are still waiting to hear from somebody who's attended one of Boris Johnson's after dinner or after lunch speeches.

There must be someone, isn't there? Because he's charging six-figure sums for these things. But we have put the call out. And actually, this would be a very good place to put the call out again, because we've got an international reach, haven't we? Yeah. On this podcast, and he has done quite a few of his speeches abroad. But I'd just be very interested to know what it is that makes him worth quite so much money on the after dinner lunch speaking circuit. And if you're on the committee of the Wollongong Carpet Retailers Association

and you're looking for an absolutely superb after-lunch speaker, how much would you be prepared to pay for the thoughts of a disgraced British Prime Minister? Yep. I just don't get it. But you can find out how much other former Prime Ministers get for their speaking, can't you? Because as long as they stay in the house they have to declare it in the members interests so theresa may is on a fair whack oh yeah because she's done trillions yeah not quite trillions but she's earned an enormous

amount of money keep that bit in um and i don't think anyone would regard her as a raconteur but you just don't know no well maybe she's a giddy a minute maybe she's got a special act maybe she's got a ventriloquist dummy who knows this all seems to be shrouded in secrecy and actually you don't really see little clips popping up on the tiktok or you know on the socials of you know the hilarious gurning face of a slightly loose-lipped insurance salesman with boris johnson appearing on a stage behind him so we'd like to hear all of these things. If that's you, get in touch. Jane and Fee at times.radio.

But yes, we wait with not so much bated breath. We wait with bad breath to see what Boris Johnson's next move is. Very bad breath. I'm still on the rosé here. And Christmas party does beckon. I know it's a stupid time to have a Christmas party, but was there a reason we didn't have one at Christmas? I can't remember. Yeah, because I went away very selfishly

on my holidays. Oh, you went away. You were selfish and then I think you got Covid. Oh no, I don't think we were meant to. Is that because you were selfish? I don't think I was. We weren't meant to be having a party when I got on well. Well, let's face it, it is now six months since Christmas and we haven't got round to it until now. There must have been a reason. Perhaps we just didn't.

You just didn't want to pay for it. No, there isn't. Okay, fair enough. I'm still not sure about it. We're going halves. It'll be great. Dear Jane and Fee, it says Sharon from Shoreham. That's a difficult say after a rosé.

Could you move, please, Sharon? I didn't have an action man. I had Johnny West. Now, so many of the toys are just falling out of the cupboard of history. I had Johnny West. Now, so many of the toys are just falling out of the cupboard of history. I had Johnny West. He was an action cowboy and along with him, his wonderful horse, Thunderbolt. Is this ringing any bells for you at all? It really isn't.

Casey Jones, steaming and a rolling. That rings bells. No, you're just speaking in tongues. Sharon goes on to say, I was enthralled with them until I found out Penny Parkins, who also had the same duo, father, had drilled a hole in Thunderbolt's rear end and fashioned a tail made out of real horse hair, I think possibly from her own pony. If only I had a photo.

Love the Daily Dose from you both and guests. So let's just unpack this a bit. I think we need to. So Penny Parkin was obviously a friend of Sharon from Shoreham's. A lot of alliteration going on here. This is a nightmare. And her father had just basically pimped Johnny West and Thunderbolt. But in quite an odd way.

A very odd way, but made him so much better than the original Thunderbolt. So that would be annoying but also that is quite strange you do wonder what goes through people's heads don't you well sometimes it's thunderbolt's case a massive drill better not to wonder uh nafisa says i like your wellness wednesday gong for the first time this week i went to a gong bath session. Have you ever been to one of those? No.

Oh, it was in a church hall. Everyone lay on thick mats with pillows and throws. In the middle of the hall were six enormous gongs. All you do is you just listen to the sound of the gongs washing over you, hence the term bath. It lasted for an hour, and honestly, it was fantastic. One of the most relaxing experiences I've ever had. So that actually has set me thinking.

If I were to see an advertisement for a gong bath session, I think I might sign up. I think there'd be ten aplenty in your neck of the woods. Yes, you might be right. I haven't ever seen it and I honestly would be interested. I think just lying still and immersing yourself in another world is no bad thing. I know people are asking, how are you getting on with hydrating yourself overnight to avoid a headache in the morning, Jane?

Well. How are you getting on with hydrating yourself overnight to avoid a headache in the morning, Jane? This is a phase I've been going through where I seem to wake up every morning with a headache and my Pilates instructor suggested that I just wasn't drinking enough. It was just dehydration. And so this week, all week,

I've had a huge glass of water before I go to bed. Yes, no headaches. But whittles. Yeah, yeah, up in the night, which I don't normally do. I mean, you know, as I've always said, I haven't got a lot to boast about but I was

previous to this week always able to make the claim I don't get up in the night which I mean as claims go I think at one stage maybe in the previous world

of this podcast we did say didn't we that on your grave it would say Jane Garvey sleeps through sleeps right through

anyway that's I don't so what was that apropos of it was I was just nothing no I'm just

actually just generally because we have a lot of people listening sort of similar age to me I wonder whether it is an age thing so if you

if you do get these constant headaches which seem to sort of erupt during the night take a tip from me it might be that you're not

just drinking enough water you're just just drinking enough water. You're just not. And maybe you should try and drink more. But shall I just do my very, very best journalistic sensibility and say, if your headaches continue, please get us a proper doctor. Oh, no, absolutely.

Because actually, headaches in the middle of the night are a bit of a weird thing, and they can mean something completely different. Yeah, well, I'm not suggesting that mine were in any way serious. They were just really irritating. Okay, well, keep us posted on exactly how many times you're up in the night, the volume of water, all of that. We're very, very, very interested.

Oh, look, here's another email from somebody else. This is Clara from Brittany who just wanted to say that she was chuffed to bits to hear her email read out on the podcast. An absolute first for me. I was alerted to the fact that you'd included it by my sister, who listens from her home in New Zealand. And I'm now afraid that your inclusion of the story about my Cindy doll might elicit her to write to you

about the time that I accidentally pulled the legs off her rather stylish Mary Quant doll, an act for which she still hasn't forgiven me. But aside from that, she wanted to say thank you because it had really made her day. And do you know what? I think we've said this before, haven't we? A shout-out on the radio.

There's nothing quite like it. Nothing quite like it. I think it beats a Blue Peter badge. Did you get a Blue Peter badge? Yes. I did too. What was yours for? I wrote a letter to the programme praising the annual.

Did you, creep? So it wasn't even a competition? No, no. In the annual, which I've got every year. I think your annual's great. Love, Jane Carvey. Aged 19. No.

You're so horrible. I can still, you know, these memories that we all have and i remember exactly where i was i was in the hall at my friend's house my mom was coming to pick me up and she just didn't speak she just thrust an envelope a brown envelope into my hand uh and it was from the bbc and i just thought oh my. This is the happiest day of my life. And that was it. Yeah. Off she went. It was signed by Biddy Baxter.

Excellent. A limerick about my dog, just in case anyone's left wondering. Go on. Do you often leave people hanging in conversation at drinks parties? What do you mean? Well, because usually in conversation you'd say what was your badge for fee oh what was your badge oh god there's no point i've told people it's all gone absolutely well can you remember the limerick no god of course can't no uh share

just wants to say uh that she was very glad that we didn't have 10 more minutes with this lady that was the republicans abroad i don't know how you're surviving in America at the moment, actually. Your politics are just so polarised. They're worse than ours. Yeah, and it just seems so shouty. And could somebody in America just tell me this? Not a huge email. You don't need to send me some kind of thesis about it.

But why don't you have another party in between the Republicans and the Democrats? Or is there such a thing? When was the last other party and why did they cease to exist? There is a Green Party. But is it substantial? Does it have seats? I don't know.

And I do think they have a sort of very fringe Green presidential candidate every time. Okay. Well, I'd like to know a little bit more. I mean, I know you might think as journalists, actually, that that's something that we could do in our spare time, but I don't want to. I'd much rather hear from our listeners about it.

Listen to this. It's about Coldplay. It's from Yvette in Melbourne. I wanted to share our unexpected Coldplay story, which occurs in the moments my first grandchild was born a decade ago. Proceedings had pretty much ground to a halt. The birthing pool abandoned, stirrups in place and doctor assuming the position with Ventrues vacuum, Ventus, Ventus I think they

are, Ventus vacuum in hand. Oh get this, on one side of my daughter were her husband and his mother oh and with me on the other urging her to do just a little bit more okay can I just say that I would that's quite tough that's not the audience that I would want no and also note to self

just further down the line were I ever to be in the fortunate position of almost becoming a grandmother I wouldn't want to be that audience either I mean I'm very happy to be in the mix somewhere being helpful outside visiting a vending machine or something like that but not watching in the room no I don't think so no anyway back to Yvette in Melbourne then the doctor's phone began ringing she ignored it it rang again she ignored Finally, the midwife extricated the phone to explain to the caller she was in fact giving a rendition of the book The

Enormous Turnip as she was hauling my granddaughter out. And all to the musical ringtone Princess of China by Coldplay. And she certainly is a princess to us, says Yvette. So we were puzzled by this one, Yvette, but we've looked up the enormous turnip and it's a story about a man with just a turnip so huge he can't pull it from the ground. On his own. On his own. And he has to enlist the help of all of his family.

What a happy memory if your daughter this must be, Yvette. Just can't think. I'm sure your granddaughter is absolutely lovely and was worth every moment of the exquisite agony your daughter was put through but goodness me I'm sure every time you hear now Princess of China by Coldplay

you're reminded of the Doctor's ringtone at that point of birth I think every time you hear it you're probably wincing aren't you? Yeah, Yvette has also she's met Miriam Margulies. How did that go? Well, it went well. She saw her do her Dickens Women in Australia

and says that she had the glorious experience of watching the crowd's part as this foul-mouthed little woman swept through effing and blinding to arrive at the signing table where she greeted me, congratulated me on beating the crowd to the signing with some more colourful language. It really was the icing on the cake of a lovely evening. She's a role model for all of us to aspire to in our senior years, says Yvette. Yes, and I certainly hope to be eating carrots and farting and getting more money than I've ever earned in my life in my ninth decade.

Well, you're quite close on several aspects of that ambition, Jane. The Reverend Richard Cole, shall we turn to him now? Let's turn to religion. Well, he did, didn't he? Well, he did. I'm not so sure he's still fully committed to it. Well, that's an interesting point, isn't it? Because since retiring from the parish of Findon, he has said that he doesn't even go to church on a Sunday.

No, he says he likes to lie in. Having a bit of a break from all of that. Anyway, he's our guest. He was talking to us a couple of days ago, and then we played this out on the programme this afternoon. The light of show business first shone on him as part of the Communards in the late 1980s. Did you buy any of their songs? They weren't my favourite, but I did love some of their stuff don't leave me this way their version

of that is great yeah and that would get you on the dance floor always on the dance floor the light hasn't really dimmed since even after having a moment in saint alban's cathedral which led richard to embark on ordination he has lived in the celebrity world, hosting Saturday Live on Radio 4, appearing on Strictly and Masterchef, doing the thinky religion bit on Radio 2. And now he's a best-selling author as well. The first in his Canon Clements cosy crime series went straight to number one in the charts. These books are set in the village of Champton.

Book number two is out now. They feature an eclectic group of villagers all of who may or may not have committed a crime that needs to be solved by the dependable but slightly wry and very clever daniel can i just put with yes why is a vicar isn't there a policeman uh i think yes well no there are policemen all over the place but it's the vicar who deduces it in the same way that Miss Marple, as far as I know, was not a detective employed by a force. Oh, no, of course she wasn't technically, was she?

Yeah, so they're just always there, aren't they, vicars, looking into things. So that's the main protagonist of these novels. The mum is never far behind, that's Daniel's mum, and the Dashens are never very far away either. Richard was very close to his mum too, and he's got lots of dashens but he's not called daniel and isn't strictly him in the book or is it he began as he always does with a completely unrelated anecdote i had a stylophone as a child lots of ways that was the threshold to pop success for me was through the stylophone which came with a flexi disc where you could play along to Kumbaya, my lord.

Good lord. You came a long way then, didn't you? Yeah, I think so. Flexidisc. Do you remember them? I do. Well, Jane had quite a large collection of coloured vinyl as well, didn't you? That was your speciality. There was a magazine called Flexipop.

Was there? Yeah, which came with a free Flexidisc. Did you listen to Dial-A-Disc? Oh, yeah. I used to bring that up. Okay, so that is such a brilliant, brilliant detail. Can you explain to people listening what Dial-A-Disc was? You phoned a number.

It wasn't 1471, it was like that. I think it was a three-digit number, I think. And then somebody played what was, I think, number one. They sort of held a phone up to a dancette and it was a scratchy playing of, I don't know. I think you'd get the top ten, couldn't you? It was a different number for whichever. Oh, I don't remember that refinement.

I'm not interested in the losers. I'm only interested in number one, okay. I'd completely forgotten Dial-A-Disc. God, the lengths that we had to go to for entertainment. For fun. Yeah. I was talking the other day to someone who grew up where I grew up. The pubs closed at about, I don't know, quarter to seven or something.

And the only place that was open was the Rothersthorpe service station on the M1. So we used to go there and have coffee. Fun times. Just before we leave this wonderful, sparkling series of recollections, I was trying to explain to my teenagers the other day the concept of the speaking clock.

Time sponsored by Ackerist. That was an innovation, wasn't it? Sponsored by Ackerist. Brilliant. It's almost like you were there. Right. Someone sitting in the Tower of London telling you what the time was. Anyone?

Ackerist telling you what the time was. It used to be a really big thing when the person who got the speaking clock job would be announced. Oh, yes. I think I can remember the name of one of these called brian cobb really that's an astonishing level of detail it really is imagine recording there anyway we can't use any of this so press we will to be honest we will uh right let's uh let's talk about your latest canon clement mystery the reverend richard coles is god i mean you're just too many things really aren't you we know you're a reverend,

we know you're a very fine dancer, we know that you're an extremely good radio presenter, and we know that you're in successful pop bands, very successful pop bands. And we know that you're a show-off. What made you think that? Now, Sunday Times' number one

best-selling author. How is this fair, Richard? It was not fair at all. I mean, most of my success is hugely undeserved. It was a sort of concatenation of, I don't know, spells or something, or dark magic and good fortune. And also putting yourself out there, I suppose. I'm a nosy person.

And also, I can't bear the thought of people having fun that I'm not having so that's a great spur to get out and about and get involved in other people's business. So by that do you mean that the attraction of being a writer and what that brings to your life made you sit down with a pen or you want your imagination to be able to take you to all of these places? Both, I think. I mean, I've always been a writer, so I... And I don't know, it sort of also came together. So being a vicar is like being a detective. Vicar's are detectives,

and I thought about that quite a bit. I was writing a lot of non-fiction, and then I wanted to create an imagined world in which a vicar detective could run around and characters he interacts with could also run around or scamper around in the case of Daxons and just to see what happened in this created world and and then it seemed to sort of the moment arrived and also I was 60 and I thought I don't really want to you know sit in the corner stirring polenta. Well, I would, but not only that.

So I thought I'd wanted to see what, maybe do something different. So tell us about Daniel, the protagonist of the books. Canon Daniel Clement is in his late 40s. He's the rector of Champton St. Mary. It's the end of the 1980s. He lives in a lovely Queen Anne rectory with his mother, Audrey,

and their two dachshunds, Cosmo and Hilda. He looks after the small village, which is the estate village to a large aristocratic estate, and a big house lived in by the de Flores family. All is settled, all is tranquil, all is orderly in that very English pastoral sort of way. And then

a murder happens. All of a sudden everything is thrown up in the air, and Daniel has to try to figure out what's gone on and why and whodunit and try to put it all back together again. So that's book one and then in book two they're all settled down and it's all kind of calm and everything. Change has come along. Parish reorganisation

has got the two extra parishes bundled in with him now and a colleague who he's not really sure about. A cat person, not a dog person. And then it's just unfortunate because it makes Champtons and Mary sound a place that bucks the mortality trends as much as Midsomer, but another murder happens too, and it all goes, all kicks off again. Can you describe a little bit more about the relationship that Daniel has with his mum?

Yes, well, Daniel is a bachelor, and slightly mysterious, actually, about what's going on in his inner life because he doesn't particularly want to have an inner life or not share it with anyone. And like lots of vicars, he likes to be and is seen as the kind of fixed point in a turning world.

So he's steady and fixed and reliable. And his mother manages to do... If you are a steady, fixed point, of course you're not because nobody is you need someone around you who's going to have an argument with the paper man that sort of thing so his mother who is quite a feisty person uh quite enjoys her role as being the kind of bad cop to his good cop i suppose and um she bears perhaps passing resemblance to my own mother and we can draw from that what you will.

Did your mother ever call you rather teasingly in conversation fathead, as Audrey at one stage does to her son? She does that a lot. I've got a great answer phone message from my mother which I recorded in which I'd left my mobile at her house and she said, pick it up, you fathead. She's quite sweary. Okay. I also get the feeling with both of your books that you really delight in being able to use fiction to have a right old prod at the church of england i mean at one point one of the characters here openly says that transubstantiation is just a load of old juju yes and that the vicar of a very posh church in central london was basically just taking bribes so celebrities could get married there.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think for a time, didn't the church in Wilton Crescent provide some sort of stipendry for you? I was curious at St Paul's Knightsbridge. Everything we did was absolutely pucker and by the book. But it must be rather lovely to be able to give it a poke and a prod around. Well, also, I thought the Church of England is a very, very rich source of social comedy, partly because it's just funny.

Vicar's are funny, but partly also because it deals with very serious stuff and nothing makes comedy livelier than being in proximity to the serious, I think. And that's what vicars do all the time. Also, of course, I'm a retired vicar, so perhaps I'm enjoying particularly the opportunity to kind of work off a little bit of accumulated frustration perhaps. But there was more than accumulated frustration for you, wasn't there? There was a very serious issue that you as a gay man had with the church that wouldn't see you in the same equal light

as a non-gay man wanting to get married. Yeah, exactly that. And I put up with that for a long time because I had to in order to do the job. And then when I no longer did the job, I realised quite how disagreeable I found that and also what it had taken from me. And I thought, I just never want to have a conversation

with a bishop about my romantic life ever again because it's it's none of their business and it's felt they actually would ask you what do you mean well at the moment we have certain rule i mean this is kind of under review at the moment but at the moment the status quo obliges me if i were a gay man in a relationship to have a celibate relationship and that's obviously if the bishop wished to have that discussion with you you would be expected to have it but i don't want to talk about that to a bishop making mind their own business and most bishops would not wish to have that discussion with you, you would be expected to have it. But I don't want to talk about that to a bishop. They can mind their own business. And most bishops would not wish to have that conversation either.

But it's a highly charged political issue in the Church of England. So when you and David, your husband, were living together in your parish and you had to tell people that you were celibate in order for that to happen, I mean, presumably, as you get to know parishioners, they just get to realise who you are and what your relationship might have in it or not have in it. Did you find anybody who was truly disappointed that maybe the celibacy wasn't a truth?

Oh, yeah, one or two. Yeah, one or two. When I arrived, a couple departed before I arrived. But actually, you're right, you know, people get to know you. And actually, most people were just very happy for me and David to be together and wanted us to be you know happy together and do you think you ever changed anyone's mind a bishop or above or below a bishop by being yourself and showing what a gay person is well I think it would suit people who are reluctant to allow equality, to see gay people as somehow deficient or lacking or not the full ticket.

And I think we just actually disappointingly appear to be just like everybody else. In fact, that took a bit... I mean, I don't want to be unnecessarily ungenerous to the opposite because it's not... very often it's not personal. It's doctrinal. You know, they, we inherit a tradition which has had a very clear view about it for a long time and if you're invested in that, it's very difficult to change your mind about that.

I have a friend who's on the other side of the debate. We've known each other for a long time and we had long discussions about it and I said to him once, has anything I've said ever changed your mind? And he said, not really, no. And I said, would anything change your mind and he said yeah it'd be my kids looking at me over the breakfast table and saying dad why are you

homophobic yeah but i mean to those of us on the outside it does seem so comic frankly that an organization like the church of england is tearing itself apart when so many people who are clergy within it i would say and argue a higher proportion of clergy in the Church of England are gay than in the rest of the population. So this is crackers. What is it all about? Well, it's about lots of things. It's really about authority. The reason why it gets so confusing sometimes is because you think, why are you arguing about sexuality? We're not really arguing about sexuality, we're arguing about authority. If you are a conservative evangelical, which is one end of the Anglican spectrum,

then you absolutely uphold the Bible as the only source of authority. And the Bible, interpreted in a certain way, seems to be absolutely explicit in condemning homosexual relationships, homosexuality, homosexual acts, and so forth. And if you're signed up to that, to retreat from that

is to kind of give up the whole game. Whereas for somebody like me, who's in a different tradition, where we think that scripture interacts with our reason and with the teaching authority of the church and so on, there's a more, there's a flexibility in that, I think, which is more open to the reality of church. Because the reality is, guess what? Gay relationships are not really that different from anybody any other kind of relationship. And it's hard for people on the other side of the argument because the rest of the world acknowledges that and we all have

gay and lesbian friends, neighbours family and all that and everyone just gets on with their life. Forgive me if you don't know the answer to this but what has the Church of England said about those awful new laws in Uganda for example? Well, I mean the church I can't really speak for the church on this one, they might be formulating an official statement about it,

but in the past what the church has done has expressed its support for people who suffer the consequences of homophobia, but it has never to my knowledge explicitly condemned those churches in the communion which seem to have absolutely no restraint at all in being incredibly hostile towards gay people. I used to work in Uganda. I did a summer as a chaplain at the university there and I know from first-hand experience just how implacable opposition to any change in a very conservative understanding of sexuality is there. in a very conservative understanding of sexuality is there. breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11 and get on with your day accessibility there's more to iPhone the Reverend Richard Coles is our guest on the podcast Jane and I have spoken with him previously

about a book he wrote detaining the grief he experienced losing his partner David so we were both delighted very genuinely actually to hear that Richard has found happiness with a new partner. He was brave enough to go on the dating apps and we asked him if having a bit of celebrity about him made that more nerve-wracking. Well, you'd think so, but actually I made a cock-up because I'd never done a dating web thing before and so I accidentally uploaded a picture of my friend John in Whitley

Bay Library because and then it was a small album of him and also a cow in a field How did you do that? How is the cow doing by the way? Well I just don't know I'm not very good at the tech stuff so I accidentally so what

Richard, my now partner, saw was actually a picture of my friend in a library in the north east of England. And then, I don't know, something about that, he thought I was being rather funny I think. And then we got in touch and then it became clear that I was me and that he was him. And he was my third go actually. Someone had told me that you can, you know, I have to put in quite a lot of investment into this

before you get your return. But it happened very quickly for me. It is quite a wonderful thing, isn't it? I think particularly for the older generation. I mean, the kids are, you know, they're just using it all the time. I think there's this amazing statistic that by 2040 in the UK, more kids will be born to people you've met online than not. It's just an accepted form of naming people.

And it's a no-brainer because it's one of the great, unarguable goods of modern civilization is the dating app, it seems to me. So you don't have to stand around for hours in some ghastly bar or something or, you know, kiss a lot of frogs before you meet your prince. It's just a good way of getting to where you need to go with someone, even if you do upload accidentally photographs of other people in public sector buildings. But that was probably a blessing, wasn't it?

Because, I mean, I know that you and your new partner were photographed on your first date, weren't you? And that pops its way onto social media. And you're a very recognisable person. Well, I mean, I don't really know, but yeah, I think so. Well, so we did what old gays do. We met in a Royal Horticultural Society show garden and went for a walk round that.

Is there a special path? What are you going to do? That's very appealing, that. Well, exactly, that's what old gays do. And I noticed also that we picked the same greetings cards in the shop so that was encouraging but we did stop for lunch and uh in the middle of the lunch dickie went for a pee and my phone pinged and someone had forwarded to me a picture of me and dickie that had just been taken by someone sitting on the table behind us actually and it had been posted that is quite weird i would i would say positively

invasive actually well i thought so and you know i'm sure someone's just thinking oh look there's and it had been posted. That is quite weird, I would say, positively invasive, actually. Well, I thought so. And, you know, I'm sure someone's just thinking, oh, look, there's that person posted. Yeah, possibly. But it's a delicate, it's a delicate lunch, the first lunch you have with your date. But anyway, I think very early on it was pretty obvious within Dickie that we were, it was going to kind of proceed.

Can I ask you just something about your your former life uh at the front on the front line of popular music because for younger listeners it will be as just hearing you it seems to me that the world of very successful i should say cozy grime is very much one that you can inhabit easily but the idea of you as a sort of can inhabit easily but the idea of you as a sort of not not a rocker but a pop star i mean you mingled with the gallagher's for example didn't you you were around that era just before going to number 10 reception for the arts when the gallagher's were there and i sat and i had a fag with harry enfield in the cleanest in the downstairs the downstairs staff room i remember but yeah i mean it's, my nephew, Ollie,

who's, I've just been on holiday with him now, he's now 20, but when he was a teenager, he kind of became aware that the adults in his family had a story and he said, he calls me Tricky, he said, Uncle Tricky, I mean, he said, were you in a band? And I went, yeah, and he went, a real band? Yeah.

And he got his phone out, we looked up on YouTube, he saw a video that we'd done, Don't Leave Me This Way, I think it was. And he started kind of nodding along approvingly. I thought, that's good, cutting through. And at the end he said, no, that's really good. And I said, thanks. He said, but even then you can tell

there was a vicar struggling to get out. Well, what's interesting is that Noel still, I think his most recent album with High Flying Birds is called Council Skies. Although I understand he's living in a vast estate in Hampshire. He's still a big Man City fan. He was at the cup final.

He's still doing his working class thing. And you have moved into a very different world. The only way I've stuck to my last one, because I started out as a chorister when I was a kid. I've just been talking to John Snow this morning. And he too was a chorister when he was a kid. And we just talked about how much that forms you. You know, you're eight years old, and through into your adolescence,

you spend a lot of time being, in those formative years, being in this extraordinarily exciting and interesting and charged environment of learning to sing liturgical music to a very high standard. It does really shape people, I think. I can spot a former chorister. And I don't think Noel was in a choir, was he? I don't think so.

No. I don't know. It's unlikely. Okay. Is there going to be a lot more murder in this poor village in Northamptonshire? Well, yes. I mean, I'm going to have to...

The next one, which I'm writing at the moment, is set in a monastery, or largely in a monastery, although some of it's in Champton too. So I'm not going to say too much about that, but I'm trying not to make Champton, I think, after Honduras, the most dangerous place to live in the world. Have the TV options been snapped up? There's a script, actually, yes.

A script has been done for four episodes and we hope they'll be going to production. We'll see. Would you be able to share with us any other details about who... I would like to know who's playing Daniel. Well, I can tell you this. So I've had a very clear idea about who I want to play Daniel from the beginning, but I kept it to myself because one doesn't want to jinx things, obviously. And then the guy who adapted it very brilliantly,

at the end he said, Oh, there's so obviously one person to play this part. And I said, Who? And he said the same name. But I'm not going to tell you. Is it Hugh Grant? David Tennant. I'm not going to say the name?

Is it Hugh Grant? Gosh. Idris Elba. Well, that's the obvious one. People think it's me, in which case, obviously Ryan Gosling, but, you know. Obviously. It's not me.

Dream on, Richard. Will you make a cameo appearance though well we've been talking about that I did a thing with Ian Rankin last night in Edinburgh God Ian Rankin, John Snow and we started with the Spanish ambassador do you think he'll go on to future interviews

and mention us James I do nothing you don't believe you would not believe how many doors your conjoined names open no it was an event for the book. So it was Ian and me in conversation in the University in Edinburgh talking about crime fiction.

And he's doing one. And I said it would be good if he could be, the cameo part he could play is somebody being barred from the Oxford bar, which of course is where Reba stands out all the time. So I don't know what would be, it would be me being, I don't know, thrown out of a church or something I'm not sure

yeah all I want is the catering in a chair with my name on that's the Reverend Richard Coles we like to call him Darling Dickie and his second

Canon Clements mystery is out now Jane I think he might is he the only person who's appeared twice on a Times radio show since the autumn

oh he might be yes no he's not who else has done that Elizabeth Day Elizabeth Day the only person who's appeared twice on a Times radio show since the autumn. Oh, he might be, yes. No, he's not. Who else has done that? Elizabeth Day. Elizabeth Day. Oh, so what a couple. They are baubles, aren't they, in the celebrity world?

Yeah, they really are, yeah. Well, Richard, it was lovely to see him, actually. He looked very well. Yeah, he did look well. And I think he's, I mean, the whole detectoring curate thing, vicar thing. Yeah. It's a winning formula, isn't it? But I do, if I'm honest, I do find the whole, the cosy crime thing.

There's also, he's aristocracy adjacent in his books as well, isn't he? There's quite a lot of, and then up at the big house, and there are houses with boot rooms and, you know, faded grandeur and quite a lot of cutlery going down there is all of that it's the english village stuff isn't it that actually i think most english villages i've ever been to uh they've got a urine soaked bus stop and a Londis. And any murder? Well, they do. I mean, that's the awful thing they do. It's not cosy.

But do you know what, Jane? Cosy crime is quite odd, isn't it? Well, that's what I mean. Because you are in no way asked to emit any kind of empathy towards the victims of these crimes. So, you know, the phone rings in the police station and somebody calls in a horrific murder and does the lady or the chap on the desk say,

is it a cosy murder or one of the other types? You know, they're all dreadful. And anyway, right. Look, it's Christmas, so we need to get on. And I really hope you have a good one. I've done all my shopping. It terrifies me when you start talking about Christmas. It's not Christmas, but we are having our delayed Christmas party.

It's incredibly warm in London town. We can guarantee that we can sit out tonight. We've already had a little tipple of the rosé. You might have been able to tell. We wish you a very, very happy weekend. We hope to be back on monday and that's about it isn't it uh it is pretty much yes but i really do hope people are able to enjoy their weekend and um just bask in it all very much so drink lots of water oh yeah stay

hydrated but don't forget to go to have a little whiddle before you go to bed you get up in the night think of me god do you mind if I don't? Well done for getting to the end of another episode of Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe. And don't forget, there is even more of us every afternoon on Times Radio. It's Monday to Thursday, three till five. You can pop us on when you're pottering around the house

or heading out in the car on the school run or running a bank. Thank you for joining us and we hope you can join us again on Off Air very screen voiceover on settings so you can navigate it just by listening books contacts calendar double tap to open breakfast with anna from 10 to 11 and get on with your day accessibility there's more to iphone