Off Air... with Jane and Fi - A vigorous seesaw manoeuvre

Episode Date: May 29, 2023

Jane and Fi are busy sunning themselves this bank holiday Monday but they took the time to record an email special. From Joe and the Juice to over-plucked eyebrows and inappropriate itching on public transport...there's much to cover!If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Producers: Eve SalusburyTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So reaching out and grabbing a microphone and pulling it towards me like a giant toddler. Give me it! Hello everybody. Oh you're so quiet now, what's happened? I don't know, I'm just whispering. Now I've gone really really, oh now I'm. Oh, I'll tell you what it is. I've got a dodgy jack. Headphone jack, Eve.

She's so young. She's so young, isn't she? Actually, is that a technical term? Headphone jack? Yes, it is. I know what you mean. Yeah. And we're on a loose connection.

Well, it's because Eve's just totally Wi-Fi. Oh, she's Bluetooth. She's all Bluetoothed up. Yeah. So a jack will become an OTOs thing in our lifetime, Jane. Well, yes, let's look forward to the day. But why is Bluetooth called Bluetooth? I honestly don't know.

Maybe because all of the, I don't know, I want to say all of the digital light things tend to be blue when they come on, but that's not true either. Nothing to do with teeth, is it? No. Why have we just accepted that as a term in our lives until this very moment? I've never given it any thought until just now. Yes, somebody will be able to solve it for us. Okay, yeah, but keep it brief.

It's janeandfee atimes.radio. Well done you. Okay. This is an email special, so there's no big guest in it. Should we just do a tiny little update because somebody, Gigi, that's a lovely name, isn't it? Gigi. Do you feel that anything would be possible if you were called Gigi? Very much so, yeah. Whereas if you're called Jane, not so much. Well, you've come a long way. I think actually it would have been harder for you to be taken seriously in broadcasting. I'm just thinking back in the day when you were doing the semen prices at BBC Hereford and Worcester. If you were called Gigi Gavet, I think actually it might have been a more difficult path. It wasn't semen prices.

It was the cattle market, the stock prices. Yeah. Down at the cattle market. In a cattle market, there are semen prices, aren't there? Well, not generally, no. Not the ones we were doing. Okay. But maybe things have changed at Hereford Cattle Market or indeed in Worcester.

I don't know. Okay, all a long time ago. Yes. But I'm sure they're still up and running yes I sometimes have a problem with Fifi because it's in my email address and so people think that

that is actually my first name so sometimes you know somebody will come to mend a dishwasher and they'll say Fifi I think oh no gosh it's very early on in your relationship

isn't it and they look at me with a kind of Fifi? Who's she kidding? Anyway, look, Gigi is an avid listener and she heard us mention that Melanie Sykes was meant to be on the programme last week and I'm sorry if you

looked and looked and listened and couldn't find Melanie Sykes but unfortunately that interview on air didn't quite work out. We just had some tech stuff going down. So we are still hoping to get Melanie on at some time in the future. We'll keep you posted. I'll tell you why it's really important to try to get hold of Melanie Sykes

is that her diagnosis of autism has come relatively late in life. She's considerably younger than me. I need to be clear about that. And I do think that is something that is becoming increasingly common. And it's had a huge impact on her and on her life. And I think it's a subject we definitely need to talk about, because I know it's a cliche, that boys tend to be associated more easily, more readily and earlier on in life with the symptoms of autism and girls again big generalization coming up are better at so-called masking their symptoms getting on with things and then they may

find that life is actually rather difficult for them because they're just working so hard at it so it's definitely an important subject so we do need to talk about it yeah and that's exactly why Gigi was interested in hearing from Melanie Sykes. And also, do you know, it's quite relevant, isn't it, in the same way to an interview we've got coming up next week, which we've done already with the DJ Fat Tony, who has recognised later in life, through his sobriety, really,

just how much ADHD affected him as a kid as well. And I think it is another one of those diagnoses later on in life that must make it incredibly difficult to look back on all of your memories and experiences and be able to see quite clearly how much an illness affected your decisions and you've also got the opposite end of the argument i was going to say spectrum but that wouldn't have been appropriate but um But people who are concerned about the over-medicalisation of all sorts of so-called conditions, because some people believe they are so-called conditions. young age or indeed later in life that they are indeed people with adhd um and uh they might well be um or it could be i think it's okay to ask a question about the huge number of people who suddenly find out they've quotes got it oh okay i'm not quite so cynical about it actually i'm

not exactly cynical only because the only experience i've had amongst friends actually who've had a later life diagnosis and have started taking medication, who have described being medicated as nothing short of miraculous, actually, in their heads. It's given them a freedom that they have not had for their entire lives. And similarly, kids I know who have started taking medication, it's benefited them hugely jane well i'm sure it can in some cases i just think it's still worth asking why are so many people being told they've got it does it always provide uh actually is medication necessarily the right

thing people some people are told they've got adhd and they don't take medication but it helps them to know that there might be something different about them but then again we're all different i don't know maybe i am more more cynical well we know you're more cynical about everything you don't believe in rainbows and unicorns uh i do believe in unicorns i came into work on one today it's rather a bumpy ride actually some potholes yeah i tell you you can come around and round and have a nice drink with me on my four leaf clover lawn and we'll see who's got more cynicism in them This is

well actually no, you do one first and then I'm going to just go back to Joe and the Juice I want to revisit Joe and the Juice I just wanted to mention Jill Hello Jill, this is about Liverpool so you'll love it Just wow, she says, I've just been to mention Jill. Hello, Jill. This is about Liverpool, so you'll love it. Just wow, she says.

I've just been to the docks in Liverpool. The projections from the museum, fabuloso down there at the moment. I've been several times. The ferry cruises have a musician and a tour guide rather than the usual recorded tape. I've been up the Liver building, I've been on the ferris wheel

and on a sail around the docks, all on a whim. It's just fantastic. Right, there's Jill from the Liverpool Tourist Board, just recommending a visit. But if you've never been and you have watched Eurovision and just thought, ooh, there's a lot going on down there, it's a great time of the year to visit,

especially when the football season's over and the trains are not full of football fans swigging lager and talking for hours on end about the charms of Roberto Firmino. That's just a personal thing there. Do go and visit. There's a lot to see. And the weather, of course, as we all know, is always glorious. And it is true, if you get the Mersey Ferry, there's usually a recorded announcement.

They play Gerry and the Pacemakers Ferry across the Mersey, as you go across the Mersey. Well, they always used to. And a voice comes on and says, welcome to the greatest ferry on planet Earth. Oh. Is it? Well, yeah, definitely.

Okay. I don't think it can match the hovercraft across the Solent to the Isle of Wight. Well, it'll have a go. Yeah, no, it certainly would. Dear Jane and Fee, I'm writing this to you, says Sass, from an undisclosed Joe and the Juice in the central east-west London area.

Inspired by your recent piece on special treats enjoyed by off-duty Michelin-starred chefs, I ventured into the club to sample the recommended spicy tuna sandwich. I can't remember which chef it was. Hannah Evans was telling us about this piece. It was from a couple of weeks ago. Gosh, I can't remember which one it was either.

Supposedly, they were all going out to grab a so-called Cheeky Nando's and a Maccy D's on the quiet. Yes, yeah. And they weren't busy marinating oyster bottoms or whatever. Yeah, and putting foam over everything and all of that. Sask goes on to say, it's crazy in here. here i am by at least two decades the oldest person here and i'm only 44 to make the outstanding age difference even more obvious i've just misheard my name and mistakenly taken another customer's order to my defense the music is deafening the servers seem to be shouting an indecipherable blah instead of any discernible names.

The tuna sandwich was good, but potentially not worth the trauma. Thanks for all that you do. Best wishes to both. And I just don't understand the mentality of a restaurant where the policy is to create such a loud, raucous environment. You're serving sandwiches. It's just a butty. It's not a club. Where you genuinely can't hear the order,

then the customer can't hear their name. It's the prices as well. Have you seen the prices? What's going on, Jane? I don't know. I don't know what's going on. Joe and the Juice, I mean, so our correspondent is in his 40s

or is it a lady or a chap? I don't know. It's Sass. I think it's a lady. Okay. And yeah, there's no way I could go in there. Unless they have a pensioner's special offer. I could pretend I was of

an age where I could take advantage of it. Maybe they could do a special pensioner's hatch where you didn't have to go in. The thing is, I really like their food. Do you? Yeah, I do, actually. I do like their sandwiches because they're all flattened. I don't know why I like that, but I'm now going to studiously avoid

it for all of those reasons uh santa's got a follow-up email p.s i went to oxford via a complete state education and i now teach students at a private school this was another one of our conversations on the radio show the last few years have seen fewer and fewer of our private school students being offered places at Oxford or Cambridge, while my former state school is publishing record numbers. I would just say this, what on earth is the dogged fixation with Oxbridge? Private schools in particular seem to gauge their successes on how many of their students get in,

while I do enjoy my teaching job and consider myself a fortunate person. All I can say is I wish I had the career success that you've achieved despite your supposedly inferior university educations you are birmingham i'm the university of kent at canterbury i think birmingham is in the russell group i think kent is now as well but if you would yes if you would like to carry on playing i'm better than you that's absolutely fine i think that sums up something about the oxbridge mentality well yeah it is interesting

i don't know whether um i i went to oxford recently on just a day out to wander around with with family and there is no doubt it is truly beautiful it's absolutely beautiful cambridge if anything is even more beautiful um and when you sometimes you just come across this extraordinary building and it was a particularly lovely time of year when I went to Oxford, blossom, gorgeous old buildings, all those possibilities. I think it must be a fabulous privilege to spend three years of the colleges there because there was a stream at school where if you'd done particularly well in a subject they thought you might be able to achieve it and I remember going around

to look at it and feeling so intimidated I just thought I wouldn't be able to do this I didn't want it for myself and I know you laugh at the University of Kent at Canterbury it's actually, I think it's a very good university now, it wasn't a top grade university back in the 1980s. Well, you will have improved it.

But it definitely, definitely, it was manageable in my head. And I think Sass's point is just so important that actually sometimes it really is what you do after university with your degree that matters to the rest of your life. It's luck, isn't it? Luck plays a huge part. And again, I wonder whether for a lot of people, no, I can't say a lot of people,

for some people who go to Oxford and Cambridge, that is the high point of their life. And it's actually very hard to go on to a better environment or a more stimulating set of circumstances afterwards. Yeah, no, that's exactly what I mean. So it doesn't matter how beautiful the place is, if that's your imprint of your three years, nothing is really going to match that view when you leave.

And that would be a terrible thing, to always hark back to your university days as being the best days of your life. I'm really genuinely grateful mine weren't. Well, I would point people in the direction of the book I'm reading at the moment, but it's taking me such a long time to finish because it makes me so angry.

This book by Simon Cooper called Chums. Well, that's another reason not to get it. Well, it's about the Oxford of the 1980s and all the people who went around the same time who are either currently running Britain or have run Britain or who have taken Britain in, shall we say, some directions that perhaps were not in Britain's best interest. Can I just ask, why on earth would you read that?

Because it's written by a man who's taking a deeply cynical, to go back to your deeply cynical view, he also went to Oxford, but from a rather different sort of background to the people about whom he's writing. Yes, I am talking about that guy. I can't really bear his... I do even mention his name, but the bloke who used to be Prime Minister, and who still occasionally... We have weeks where he doesn't

enter the news, and then he's back this week, and it's making my nerves jangle. I genuinely think you just need to move away from the whole thing, so it doesn't bother you at all. I will finish that book. Well done, Simon Cooper, for writing it. K-U-P-E-R, by the way, if anybody wants to read it.

I really hope that somebody from the alumni of the University of Birmingham is busy writing chums. Chums. Chums. And you can read something that won't inflame your sense of iniquity. And by the way, it's only a tiny cross-section of the people who went to Oxford at that time. Some other people who went there have done wonderful things for Britain.

Because, let's be honest, you've got to be super bright to go there. And based on the people I now know, I've got friends who've got children at Oxford and Cambridge, they work so damn hard. They genuinely feel sorry for me they really do well it's certainly not like experiences that other people have at university

mentioning neither of the names of my daughter I'm sure they did they did do some work quick move on to the next topic yes okay right this is from Abby I was struck by your comments earlier this week about racism

when you were talking about Asma Mia's new book. Now, Asma's new book, I am reading it now. It's called, I must get the name right, A Pebble in the Throat. And it's a very interesting book about her adolescence, childhood in Scotland, but also about her mum's experiences as well. Her mum came from Pakistan to Scotland,

didn't she? Yes. Okay, so Jane talked about racism in the 70s and how things have at least improved from then, says Abby. Well, as a white female, I too have not been subjected to anything of this nature. But I did watch the BBC programme Race Across the World last week. Have you seen it? I started watching it at the beginning. I didn't stick with it till the end. Okay, well, actually, my sister mentioned this aspect of it to me, Abby, so it's interesting that you've also noticed. I was reminded of how racism still plays an active part in how others are perceived. One of the couples competing, Monique and Laddie, a father and daughter team, are black. When hitchhiking, which is common in

Canada where it's set, they found it hard at times to find companions to travel with. Monique, the 25-year-old daughter, did a very heartfelt piece to camera about her race playing a part in this. It really made me sit up and realise that at 25, she's been the subject of many circumstances such as this, when she's left to feel less significant than others. How this is still acceptable is beyond me, but how to undo the problem is something I'm grappling with. The programme itself has been superb, not least when announcing the two winners,

Tricia and Cathy, who were 48 and 49, two old school friends who won the race, showing us that women of a so-called certain age are not to be underestimated. Both women talk about who won the race, showing us that women of a so-called certain age are not to be underestimated. Both women talk about this through the show, that feeling of being ignored or insignificant to society. They've been joyous to watch and are really worthy winners. Perhaps potential guests for you as well.

That's interesting. We could do that, couldn't we? Because actually, I do remember people talking about how great they were. I haven't seen that programme, so we'll make an effort to watch it. Abby, thank you for that. Can I just say I have read asthma's book uh cover to cover and I really properly properly recommend it and I think in that search for you know what to do with those feelings of frustration and anger that you might have watching other people's racism you know if if we all read more books like Asma's of her mum's experience and of her experience, and then just carried on really supporting her, you know, in everything that

she does now, it is a small step towards eradicating prejudice. I knew nothing about Asma's upbringing in Glasgow and some of the racism that her and her family endured is just so deeply deeply unpleasant and troubling to have happened in our lifetimes Jane that's the point isn't it it's not a story of her mum's racism fading away for her daughter that's not what happened at all but you and I have known Asma for 20 years and have watched her progress you know right to the top of broadcasting uh having to deal with something that that you and i never did and so supporting her and applauding her incredibly loudly and understanding her experiences is a thing just hugely worth doing

i met her mom actually at her launch party what fantastic woman she was so there must have been about 100 people there i don't think she would have known more than a handful of people and she just went round and introduced herself to nearly everybody in the room and just said hello I'm Asma's mum, how do you know my daughter I just thought wow I wouldn't have the courage to do that

that's how to work a room isn't it she was lovely to meet and how old is Asma's mum I would say mid 70s now she's relatively young. Yeah. I mean, for somebody's mother, I said, because my mother's older.

She won't be listening, so it's alright. But Asma's a wee bit younger than you. Oh yeah, no, she is. Yeah, absolutely. I just couldn't quite work out how old her mum was. Okay. And we should say that her mum has written some of the book and Asma has written some of the book. So it is it's a a very um and i actually it was it came to my mind this week when we were talking about the alec terrible allegations of racism in spanish football and

i first went to a football match what year was it uh gosh i went to liverpool for the first time in 1974. I can remember, yes, 1974. And absolutely, at the time, I'm not sure, certainly Liverpool didn't have any black players at that time, I don't think, there was terrible racism in British football. And there is still racism in British football. And anyone who thinks that we can be super smug and say, aren't the Spanish terrible, doesn't know a lot about what happens at football matches.

Or has chosen to forget the most recent World Cup. Well, and that, yeah. So, I mean, I absolutely am glad that we've been able to cover the allegations about what happened in that game in Spain. But nevertheless, you know, we can't pretend it doesn't happen here. Right. Could Jane please clarify not liking linen? Yeah. No, it's because I look like somebody who just hasn't... I think you need to carry it off.

I can't. I think I just look a mess when wearing a linen garment. OK. I think if you see it on a... I'm going to say on a man casually walking down a boulevard, potentially on his way to solving a crime, wearing a linen... I'm talking Eddie shoestring

but put him somewhere else, can look great. That's Trevor Eve. Okay, oh. In his heyday. In his heyday, yes. Well, I don't think a man can pull off a linen suit. I think it has to be a linen blend because otherwise it's incredibly crumpled and just

holds the sweat. I've just experimented, God my life's full of excitement, with a linen duvet cover and I'm not getting on with it. Are you not? No. I love a linen duvet cover. I'm getting very hot. Oh. Do you think the temperature's gone up to you? Yes, I think it's meant to keep you cooler. Well it's not doing that with me. Oh, do you think you'd go back to your polyester? Perhaps I'm feverish. Should I be here? Chloe has made some very, very astute observations about you not liking linen.

She asks to wear, to feel, to look at. And she says, white linen trouser paired with brightly coloured Cerise T-shirt agreed very afternoon trip out to Edinburgh Woolham Mill and best avoided. French linen bedding as crumpled stonewashed covers or satisfyingly stiff matis flat sheets take all my money.

I can never have enough. Right. I'm with you on both those things, Chloe. Which emporium did she mention there? The Edinburgh Woollen Mill. Edinburgh Woollen Mill, yes. I've had many a Christmas present from my mum. Well, there was a great line in Mill. Edinburgh Woollen Mill, yes. I've had many Christmas presents from my mum. Well, there was a great line in this

TV show I'm watching, Maryland, which, have you still not seen it? I watched two episodes last night. Oh, it's quite good, isn't it? It's very good. There's a very good line in the first episode where the character, Sir Anne Jones' character, references going with her mum to Dunelm. Yes. And I've been, I think I've been on a WI coach trip to

Dunelm with my mum. Or was it the Edinburgh Wooden Mill? It was one of the two. I tell you what, it's quite hard work on a coach trip to bring back a bedside table and a three-piece suite. It must have been the Edinburgh Wooden Mill. We definitely managed it. We've got a load of... It was a good trip, that.

I actually have been on a few WI things. They're good, yeah. Very moderately priced. And there's something about a coach trip. I can really see myself, when I'm slightly older, not much's something about a coach trip i can really see myself when i'm slightly older not much older enjoying a coach holiday let someone else do the driving i can't imagine anything worse why well there's no there are only two seats on a coach that are comfortable because if you're on the wheel arches that's very bad for travel sickness oh god yeah i think an older coach trip uh for of older people it does mean that either

you've got to stop off at a lot of convenience stations ideal or you've got to use the chemical toilet inside the coach a place of hell dante's fourth circle no so no i wouldn't want to be on a coach trip at all and you just can't really move you know it's not like a train where you could just get up and you know pretend you need to go to the buffet car all of it all of it appeals to me the lack of potential to move someone else doing the driving the scenery constantly changing and all those convenience stops the scenery constantly changing it does that when you're moving doesn't it it? On the M4. You'll be lucky. Okay, well, that's a deep insight

into your future vacationing. Yeah, well, you're not coming with me, clearly. I wouldn't want to, no. Can we just veer very briefly back to the apocalypse? Of course. Because I think we've left it alone for a few weeks, but it's still very much on my mind. I don't think it's ever very far away from your mind.

Well, it's not. Well, with good reason. I think if your mind is only distracted by tales of Boris Johnson's youth, then the apocalypse might be, I don't know. I just want to mention Amy, who draws my attention to a book that you won't be surprised to hear I have read

called When the Wind Blows by Raymond Briggs. Yeah, I read it. But Amy says, One funny thing. Early on in my relationship with my partner, I discovered that he has a few kitchen cupboards full of tins of food and bottled water so i asked him if he was preparing for the apocalypse and he very seriously said that he was he's concerned enough about a large-scale disaster

that he is stockpiling the essentials his pile of tins is still growing, but for some reason he doesn't think toilet paper or tea bags will be needed. May I suggest then that you assuage some of your worries by doing some stockpiling yourself? Amy, thank you, and don't think I haven't. I'll be getting lots of tuna, tins of tuna, so I can recreate the Joe and the Juice overpriced tuna butting experience as I sit it out in the cellar and wait for the WRVS to bring round a jigsaw in two weeks, if we're lucky. If it's the apocalypse, there's just no point.

I won't be told. I don't think I want to be alive longer than everybody else. Well, if you're in East London, love, you won't be, so don't worry about it. There might be some hope for us, though. No, there won't be. It's taken its toll before, hasn't it? Right, this one comes from Lorna, who says,

Hello from Down Under. Greetings, by the way, to all of our Antipodean listeners. I was listening whilst I weed as we were having an event in our garden next week. Two friends are taking the plunge. Sorry. No, just listen. Hang on, she weed?

No, weed. As in gardening, weeding. Read it again. I was listening whilst I weed as we are having an event in our garden next week. Two friends are taking the plunge. Yay, O for young love. You see, I read that as well. I thought, we can't use that because we're talking,

this is a woman who's telling us that she's having a pee in her own garden. No, she's weeding. She's taking out the weeds. I didn't read it that way. Anyway, carry on. Okay. Anyway, the point was that you were discussing tattoos. I'm a bit behind, certainly can't manage the live show from here.

You are both younger than I and presumably still have your eyebrows, but beware that they behave very oddly with age, getting narrower, going grey, moving to your chins, and even disappearing completely. Hence the growing business of cosmetic tattoos here. I know they were probably originally designed

for people after drastic surgery, i.e. drawing on fake nipples for reconstructed breasts after mastectomy. And actually, those are really impressive, aren't they? And so have an honourable past. So the fact that I decided to celebrate retiring and losing my visual acuity with age by getting eyeliner tattooed on feels deeply frivolous. But the bliss of knowing my eyeliner is on straight

and won't end up elsewhere on my face is lovely the only proviso is the weird discussion you need to have with the tattooist about using mri compatible pigment just in case you develop a brain tumor as you get even older hey ho love the show regards lorna there's so much in there that i just never ever thought about or come across would you ever have your eyebrows tattooed on? Do you think a lot of people do? We just don't notice? Well, I think eyebrows, it's like they've had a moment that's gone on quite a long time, haven't they? Because for a while, I don't remember anybody talking about eyebrows.

Do you remember when Jackie magazine used to have quite regular features about how to pluck your eyebrows? Well, it was difficult for those with poor sight because if you are short-sighted and this is well i suppose if you've got contact lenses but i didn't have them at the time it's extraordinarily difficult to see well enough to be able to pluck your eyebrows efficiently and skillfully um with the with the pluckers isn't it very yeah yeah so i used to really wrestle with this and would often get it wrong and probably only narrowly escaped an accident.

Since threading has come in, I try to remember to go relatively frequently. When I last went, though, the woman said I need to come much more often and basically implied that my eyebrows were wildly out of control. Show me your eyebrows. I don't think they're that bad.

They're not that bad at all. And of course you thank you eve um if you dye your hair you've then got to make sure that your eyebrows are sort of a bit like your hair well are you going to go down the same road as lorna and just have a little bit of tattooing i can see why people do do that yeah eyebrows are important they do they frame the face and it's only when you don't have them and i appreciate people who going through chemo for example are likely to lose their eyebrows they don't always but it's certainly a possibility isn't it it is victoria beckham revealed as well this week that uh that david has never seen her without her eyebrows painted on because she plucked her so badly during the era of girl power as well i mean there were downsides uh that she practically has no eyebrows left at all but is so self-conscious

about it uh she'll make sure that she's painted them on before he sees before he wakes yes i don't really understand that no but maybe she should have them tattooed as well but i've never heard the thing about an MRI pigment problem either. So Lorna, that was fascinating. If other people fancy weighing into that, then please do. Do you think people would sue Jackie now for the fact that they lost all of their eyebrows? Because the thing that the magazines never told us in our youth

was that eyebrows really don't grow back. I don't think they did ever. And do they not? No that eyebrows really don't grow back i don't think they did ever and do they not no they really don't so they grow back a bit but but lots of women our age have that problem of having had really really fine you know like kind of one hair joining one hair joining one hair during the 1980s i know i never went down that road but now my glasses are so thick you can't really see my eyebrows anymore. Let me just have a look. I know yours look in fine order. Caroline says, I just had to put my finger to keyboard

because last night I watched a film called Swimming With Men. Have you seen that? No. Absolutely repulsed. It's quite funny, but I absolutely roared with laughter when a character played by Rob Brydon, I do like him, in The Changing Room, witnesses the famous seesaw manoeuvre to dry the male jocularities, something you have referred to in the past.

We've had quite a long sequence talking about that. Yeah, but I like to be reminded because there's nothing like a vigorous seesaw manoeuvre, making sure everything down there is fully spruced up and not at all damp. It's just a little something the chaps can do, and generally speaking, they like to do it, of course, with one

leg up and one leg on the floor. So in the open air showers at the swimming pool, Jane, and up at the reservoir, there's just a man thing where everyone's just a man thing where everyone's just having a quick wash and that's all those showers are meant to be there for.

And men will start having a bit of a grope and a fiddle around, you know, within their trunks. And I just don't like it. Women are not doing the same thing. Even women who are there in bikinis who could reach if they wanted to, they're not doing the same thing. It's just just i find it really difficult so i have to look away yeah

no i think that's a really good point so generally speaking just as women don't pee in the street i mean when was the last time you saw a woman peeing in the street i don't think i've ever seen one in the street but you quite regularly will see let's be honest a man having a pee and well it's the same for rearranging the genital region you never see a woman on the tube scratching her bits no and it's just by the way it's not nice sometimes they do need a bit of scratching you don't do it it's not exactly unknown no but for some reason is it that society has never given us permission? I don't know. It's the equivalent of manspreading, isn't it?

Yeah. It's just something that we make ourselves small and we keep our bodily noises slightly quieter. Yeah. It's like a man vomiting. And it's better that way, Jane. That noise of a man vomiting. It's just extraordinary.

I just go, do you? Lady vom, it's called. But a man has absolutely... By the way, scaffolders back in the street this morning. I am living the dream. Were they vomiting? No, but they were... They're just...

Where is their volume knob? So loud. It's ten to eight, boys. Shut up. Was it Kiss FM? No, it's just them shouting to each other. Can somebody please invent gentle scaffolding? It must be possible.

You need to move to China, Southeast Asia in general, where some of the scaffolding... I don't think I do, by the way. I don't think so. ...has always been bamboo. Really? Yes. Even on the high rises back in the day

the scaffolding would be made of bamboo. So that would be obviously a lot quieter. Yes. And why is it still bamboo? I don't know. I haven't been to Hong Kong for 20 years. Is that environmentally unsuitable? Well, no. I wouldn't have... Well, God, I mean, making all of the metal

for clanking scaffolding must be rather environmentally unsound. Yeah, I'm sure it is, yeah. And I think the bamboo would grow again, wouldn't it? I tell you what, these are questions we really aren't qualified to answer, but someone will know. You hope so.

Jane and Fee at Timestock Radio. Yeah, I don't want to die not knowing the answer to do you still have bamboo scaffolding? And is it environmentally sound? Philip Beeching poses this to us. My mother will be 96 next month. Well, how lovely, Philip. I hope she's in good health. And when she was 17, she carried a guide to the Vatican for a whole summer in her native Cheltenham.

She had never left Cheltenham, but thought it made her look worldly and interesting. And I really love that. So you just held it and took it everywhere with her because i think there's a there's a there's a point in most people's lives where an element of pretension creeps in and you do do something don't worry about it yeah and you think oh this is absolutely the height of cool everybody's going to notice this everybody's going to think more highly of me and i I love that. A guide to the Vatican. I think I had a copy of J.D. Salinger's Franny and Zooey, which I think I had in quite a prominent

position in my university bedroom. So you didn't do Catcher in the Rye. That was just too lonely for you. Catcher in the Rye was so obvious. So did this lady never go to the Vatican? Well, we need more information on this, please, Philip. And, you know, I hope, like I said, i hope she's in good heart

so we're not mocking at all but we would definitely definitely like to know more and i think we'd like to hear other people's pretensions i once went into the record shop in winchester and did exactly that kind of thing where i thought well i'll buy something you know just really that i won't like super cool looks super cool i bought bought an album by Lords of the New Church, Jane, which I then felt I had to play a lot for about three months. You'll have to remind me. What was their big hit? Well, there wasn't one.

I mean, there just wasn't one. But I was committed to then playing it because that had been the album that I bought with three months' worth of pocket money. And I regretted it because it just wasn't great. I think we're all we're all just a bit susceptible I did buy a single a white vinyl single by the tubes the tubes yeah remember that the tubes they were quite they were sort of relatively alternative what the hell was the

title of that white vinyl I can see it now uh I was thinking about this because uh it was when we were interviewing gary kemp i remembered the 12 inch version of uh what was the time we don't need this pressure on was in brackets but what was the song called uh chart number one chart number one we don't need this pressure on and i didn't actually like it that much i wasn't going to tell gary that but they were super trendy and to have a 12 inch felt like a real commitment. So I'm not sure I played it with any great enjoyment. I did love a number of their other songs, but that wasn't one of my favourites. But it was 12 inches.

Love to hear more of those things, please. Really love to. Well, yes. What did you buy or what did you listen to? Or what did you wear? And what did you wear that you hated, really, but you just thought somebody might fancy you as a result of

seeing you with it or wearing it. Exactly, that you'd spark some incredible affinity with somebody of an equally high mind as you, but in fact you look like a brat. For example, today I am wearing an elasticated waist Marks & Spencer black A-line skirt. Who's it calling to, Jane?

So far, nobody. But it's extraordinarily comfortable. Apparently, Marks and Spencer's fashions are having a moment. God, my foot has got trapped in the cable. Now I've dropped all the emails. Right, OK, anyway. No, because the Times... The Times did say,

Anna Murphy said, that Marks and Spencers have got good clothes at the moment. I mean, I'm not sponsored by Marks and Sparks, because there are loads of other great shops like Sainsbury's Local where I get my bagels, but you can't buy A-line skirts there at the moment. No, although in the bigger Sainsbury's you can. You can, absolutely. Sometimes I'm very impressed with the two range.

Two. Two. I like an M&S shop. I've liked an M&S shop for years. Yeah, that's enough about them though, isn't it? We welcome all potential advertisers. Oh God, you're right. Sorry.

You've got to pay us if you want to hear more about M&S. Always go to the reunion is this one from Sally. I went to my school 20 year reunion. Admittedly, several years ago now, I was filled with the same kind of nervous anxiety that I used to feel before a school disco.

But I put on my big girl pants and went with a friend who promised that if it was too hideous, we'd scarper at the nearest pub. She went with a friend. Is that a good tip, do you think? Well, I'm interested by reunions and I would like to hear some stories from reunions

because I never go to them at all. You're quite good, aren't you? You go to yours. My. You're quite good, aren't you? My school's never actually had a reunion because, funnily enough, it was the 40th anniversary of us leaving because we left in 1982, obviously last year. And to be honest, if there'd been a reunion, I definitely would have gone. But as far as I'm aware, there wasn't one.

Perhaps it's up to me to do something about it. It would be worrying, wouldn't it, if you discovered actually that there always had been a reunion. They just never asked me. Well, you're right. God, that's a possibility that never crossed my mind. My mum is currently at the moment, she may, what's today, Wednesday,

she may actually even be in her school reunion. I think she is responsible for arranging and of course of the 24 people in the class invited only seven can come oh gosh yeah well mum's in her 80s yeah that's no that's but that makes you think yeah but it does make you think and actually having been very much a reunion recalcitrant and reluctant yeah I think actually maybe it might be time to embrace it I would absolutely like to go because I imagine, well, I mean, it just wouldn't, whatever else it might be, and I take our correspondent's point,

it might well be challenging, but it wouldn't be boring. And on the whole, I imagine that you'll probably be quite glad you've been. But, I mean, you know, things can, yeah, we're getting to that stage where things start happening to people and not all of them are good, so it might be a good time to do it. So what happened in that, anyway? Oh, well, met the, you know, the one who was the Adonis when they were at school turned out to just be, you know,

your average Joe by this stage, and so all kind of fears of expectation were trumped, so it was a good experience. It was a good experience. Yeah, it ended up being a very good experience. I'm not going to read out the description of what the Adonis had turned into because it's quite rude.

But put it this way, Sally, I don't think you missed out that much. Well, the thing is, the school heartthrob, I mean, it's a bit difficult at a girls' school. Obviously, sorry, gay women exist. Absolutely. But this was 1981 or 2. We didn't have any at the time. What, gay women exist. Absolutely. But this was 1981 or two. We didn't have any at the time.

Was it gay women? Well, not in my school. I mean, I'm saying officially in the sense that I think so much has changed for the better in the last 40 years that it is interesting. I'm sure that my school proudly boasts any number of gay pupils right now and good luck to every single one of them but it wasn't it wasn't

something that I was aware of in in the nineteen early 1980s well it wasn't was it no and I'm thinking exactly the same thing and ours was a girl school of 600 pupils yeah and there wasn't a single out gay girl and that is not remotely uncommon for the time, but I think it would be, or I would hope it would be very uncommon now. Yeah. Yeah.

Anyway, if you have been to a school reunion and you've got anything good or bad to say about them, let us know. Yeah, I think that might be a rich theme. Anonymity guaranteed. And obviously not stories about us, please. No, if you're at school with us, never tell anybody. Contact my lawyers and you'll be sent a large amount of cash in a brown envelope.

Does that conclude our podcast? That concludes the business for today. I hope you're enjoying the sunshine, but please sensibly apply SPF. Reapplication is the key. You did it. Elite listener status for you for getting through another half hour or so of our whimsical ramblings. Otherwise known as the hugely successful podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. We missed the modesty class. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler, the podcast executive producer.

It's a man. It's Henry Tribe. Yeah, he's an executive. Now, if you want even more, and let's face it, who wouldn't, then stick Times Radio on at three o'clock Monday until Thursday every week. And you can hear our take on the big news stories of the day, as well as a genuinely interesting mix of brilliant and entertaining guests on all sorts of subjects. Thank you for bearing with us. And we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon. Thank you.