Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Age appropriate jiggery (with Martin Kemp)

Episode Date: November 13, 2023

In this rather culture-infused episode, Jane and Fi chat Cliff Richard, the theatre and climbing onto stools at 83 years old. Plus, they're joined by Spandau Ballet's Martin Kemp to discuss his debut novel 'The Game'. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi Assistant Producer: Eve Salusbury Times Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. We're going to start with a hard-hitting announcement about dogs in coats.

There are many pictures of dogs in coats sent in by you, the beautiful listeners, and they're available on our Instagram page. And if you feel like you just need a little bit of a lift then you will not be disappointed there's just something funny about dogs in coats dogs in hats is actually even better but dogs in coats is where we'll start what's our insta address garvey jane and fee i mean it's not difficult is it it's not very difficult fee is spelled f i j in the traditional way without the Y. And it's life-enhancing and gentle content, which is sort of what our Instagram specialises in.

And we've put on some Instagrammers. I don't know what you're supposed to say, but we're a little behind where we'd like to be because I'm aiming at about 10 to 15 million. About 12,000. No, 13. 13? Yeah, so I did check the other day.

Anyway, yes, so please do follow that because it is very sweet. And unfortunately, of course, cats don't wear coats, so I can't really play this game. I have got a picture of Dora in a laundry basket, which I might submit, but I kind of just like to look at it in my own private time, so I might not.

Okay, well, I'm sorry, but other avenues will be made available to you. You've had pepper pots. I think maybe you just have to let us have dogs in coats for a little while. Quite right. Good point. I'll just settle down. Yes. Now, everybody is on the edge of their seats. About the reshuffle. No, no, about Cliff.

So we'll get to the reshuffle and the re-emergence of David Cameron this morning, sauntering back into the building. He is our new foreign secretary. There has been a huge amount of surprise and some shock at that, hasn't there? Well, I think he was the man referred to once by a friend of mine who works in this building, actually, as a ham-faced wank spangle. Yes. Do you remember that? I do remember that. Anyway, he's back. We left our lives and now he's returned. To me, it's the biggest comeback since Lazarus. It genuinely is this. We were not expecting it. It's going to infuriate large parts of the population um and i'm just standing well back i've got it's quite interesting because obviously in this

building and in our line of work people have talked of nothing else all day in the real world i like to check in with my real world whatsapp groups not a murmur no well me neither but that doesn't dull my enthusiasm for discussing it, actually. No, it doesn't. At all. I think it's extraordinary, and I think in terms of, you know, if you were sitting there writing that Conservative Party season

674, and you wanted a plot twist, I mean, this is a Bobby Ewing moment, isn't it? It is. I wonder where he was when he might have been in the Shepard's Hut, or in the shower in the shepherd's hut or in the shower i mean as you said earlier we've all been a little bit bored at home um particularly those of us who've been at home with kitties over any length of time and how thrilled i'd have been at various times in my life for the phone to string into life would you like to become

the next incredibly important office of state? Oh, no. Well, I've got a little bit of sick just running down in between my breasts at the moment. I'm trying to comfort a six-month-old child. Maybe next time. Yeah. But Dave, he's got his passport. It'll always be Dave to me.

He's got his passport in full working order. Well, let's hope he has. And he'll be off jetting around the world, bringing world peace. Do you think that is one of the things that when he's been scrutinised ahead of this appointment, somebody has checked his passport, hasn't run out? Because that would be so embarrassing. Because you have to wait ages for the passports to come back at the moment.

I know. I think they've rather speeded up, actually. I think they'll turn them around in about six weeks or so. Six weeks before he can go abroad if his passport's out of date. It'd be embarrassing, wouldn't it? Anyway, he's back, and I have to say it is a surprise, although we did interview one Tory MP today who said he'd heard all about it.

It had been talked about for months, and he didn't understand why everyone was so surprised. And he was the MP for? Reislip. Well, that is often at the crucible of political intrigue. And now on to Cliff. So what happened last night? It's a very long and complicated anecdote.

I'll keep it as short as I possibly can. Ian Dale is a showbiz pal of ours, works for NBC, and is a massive Cliff fan. And he's got the gig, or has had the gig, I think his stint is now over, where for three consecutive nights he got to interview Cliff Richard on stage as Cliff performed some of his greatest hits in his current tour. Because Cliff is in his 80s, so doing a full-blown show for a couple of hours

is quite simply too much for him. And so he needed occasionally to perch on a stool. I've got to say at 83 if I can get on the stool I'll be happy never mind doing the hip wriggling and the great songs he could do he could do that he could get on the stool he could do a certain amount of jigging on stage I think age-appropriate jiggery is how I'd describe it last night and then Ian interviewed him on a couple of occasions during the course of the of the concert and it was it was quite a night because I think I'll be absolutely honest with you I've quite liked a number of Cliff songs over the years

but I'm not a fully paid up mega fan so to be in the midst of this extraordinary extraordinary, a cauldron of cliffologists. It was quite epic, it really was. And there were a lot of older folk, but then you've got to be, why can't they go out and enjoy themselves? Why should having a good time just be restricted to the under 80s? No, we all deserve a good time. And I was actually rather touched

by the cross-section of humanity that was there last night. And I was sitting between two, not one, because you can't sit between one person. Well, you could if you were more supple than me. Or it was a different kind of evening. Or it was very much a different kind of evening. I was sitting between two Fogarty sisters, Sheila,

another LBC presenter, and her sister Anne, who is a retired midwife. And it has to be said, had some cracking anecdotes from her long time of service at Liverpool Women's Hospital. In fact, I would have gone to a show where Anne just told some of her best bits, if I'm absolutely honest. In fact, I think one day she will. So it was an interesting night and fair play to Ian

because he was very much in the role of Cliff's friend, but of course the audience, some of them are fanatical Cliff fans. I think they perhaps were maybe verging towards a tad resentful of Ian's kind of proximity to Cliff. Ian came over to see us before the show began and Ian had security. I'm not joking. It was that kind of night. I just don't get the Cliff thing at all. I'm to be honest It was that kind of night. I just don't get the Sir Cliff thing at all. Don't you?

Well, I mean, to be honest, like I say, I don't. I'm sorry, Ian, because I know that... No, he absolutely loves him. I mean, it is odd to see a bloke in his 80s performing Bachelor Boy. That wasn't my highlight of the night. A couple of songs I thought were quite exceptional. I mean, there's a lovely song he does called Ocean Deep,

which was an amazing song and a great performance. We Can't Talk Anymore, brilliant song, fantastic band, who did a kind of almost like a heavy metal version of it. And it really worked. So I was just thinking in the end, who am I to judge? I mean, he clearly is wildly popular with his mega fans. And there were a couple of women sitting just in front of us who Sheila got talking to,

and they were wearing Geordie Cliff fans on tour T-shirts and headdresses that illuminated. And when Cliff performed his two Christmas number ones, which are, of course... Oh, I don't know, Jane, I just don't... I just don't know. Mistletoe and Wine and Saviour's Day. One of the ladies came over and gave Sheila some tinsel,

and so we joined in. We waved our tinsel around while Cliff gave everything in mistletoe and wine. I mean, it was one of the more extraordinary nights of my going to gigs, one of the more extraordinary gigs I've ever been to. I mean, I'm going to call it a gig because that's what it was. Have you ever seen Robbie Williams live? No, I haven't. And I don't think there'll be any similarities whatsoever.

Well, I was, so I've seen him a couple of times and I'm making my way through his Netflix. What would you call it? Documentary biopic? What is it? Kind of, yes. It's like a therapy session. It's a depressing opic.

Yes. It actually is. But watching some of the scenes. So the shtick of it is that he's been filmed kind of behind the scenes for the last 20 years and they've collated all of the material and then Robbie's watching it back in, I think is it a hotel room somewhere in Los Angeles? Or a wing in his immaculate, huge mansion. Topiary a go-go.

And so you're watching him watching himself give a kind of commentary on his early life in the band and then his breakdown. And I tell you what Sir Cliff has managed to do is never go down that road of revealing too much of himself to the world. And even though he's had that huge adulation and adoration for what, six decades of his life? Yeah, he's now had a successful album in eight consecutive decades.

Which is astonishing.'s it's absolutely extraordinary but he always seems to be somebody who really in has enjoyed his fame and the only point where you think well of course you didn't was when the bbc put a helicopter up above his house absolutely lots of accusations well and i'm glad you mentioned that because he did hint last night perhaps it was more than a hint he doesn't have a home in britain anymore so he lives mostly in in other west indies well he was so devastated i mean as he would be because it was a false accusation but he was really really devastated by all of that um but it's just a and it's a bit relevant isn't it to our guest this afternoon who is martin kemp just this allure of fame that then, you know, if you swallow the

pill and too many of the pills, you just lose your life. And that's what's happened to Robbie Williams. And he seems to be in a very good place now. But watching back him watching gigs, which you know, which I know I was at. So it's kind of like, God, I remember the screaming. Did it ever cross your mind at the time that this person at the heart of it wasn't having a good time? No, that's the thing. That's the thing. I didn't think that at all.

But I don't think, I didn't go to the massive, I wasn't at the Leeds Festival where he properly, properly had a panic attack. Or was that Glasgow? I can't remember. I think it was Leeds. But, you know, the part that we all play and what we expect those people on stage to go through,

and then I think what people are brave enough to tell us now, there are two just incredibly different worlds going on, aren't there? But Cliff, aside from that intrusion into his personal life, seems to be someone who just really enjoyed being famous. Oh, and I think he, frankly, I think he loves it. There were plenty of hints in his patter on stage that, you know, he's, I'm going to say he's probably a bit of an egomaniac.

Do you think so? I do. I think maybe Robbie Williams is a little bit of a narcissist and in fact Camilla Long wrote something so superbly nasty about him, and I'm sorry, but it was, that the kind of confection of this Netflix series is like a lasagna or a self-pity.

There are many layers going on. I can see what she means. Oh, but it's quite an addictive watch, Jane, in a weird way. I'm a bit sick of seeing him in his pants. I'm not sure whether I'm going to watch much more of it. No. I don't know. Not with other televisual fish to fry.

But I know Ian Dale's favourite Cliff song is Miss Unites. Oh, God, are we still doing Cliff? I thought we'd moved it on. Sometimes you've got to... It's just a great song. It was a great band, and can I also just say, in a very Anna Ruckie kind of way, fantastic sound. Because sometimes you go to a gig and the sound is muddy and it ruins your enjoyment. It was brilliant.

Well, did he have small speakers and tall speakers? He did do Wired for Sound. Absolutely, he did. I'll be your bachelor boy. Oh, no, please don't. No! Right. That isn't my favourite, as I say.

Does there come a time in your life when you can't perform Bachelor Boy anymore, if you're Cliff? Well, I would have thought so. I think we're probably about 1953. He's only 83. Leave him alone. Okay.

Right. Now, we will get on to Martin Kemp a little bit later, who's a first-time novelist. He is. He's a first-time proper novelist because he's actually written every single word of his book. Let's talk about theatre. It was so funny, says Alison, when Fee revealed

that the last page she'd seen was Jumpers by Tom Stoppard. That's a long time ago. We moved to London from Lancashire in the mid-'80s and we thought we'd get on board with the culture... What was that noise? Eve. Your chair, when they all say that. We moved to London from Lancashire in the mid-'80s and thought we'd get on board with the culture the capital has to offer,

so we went to see Jumpers. I think we chose it because it starred Paul Eddington and Felicity Kendall, and they, of course, were in the good life, weren't they? As Fee found, it was bewildering and quite unfathomable. In the interval, we spotted somebody in the audience who we knew from our days in Ormskirk. They had no idea what was going on either,

so we did feel slightly better. What with that and a trip to see The Hired Man, a musical by Melvin Bragg. That's passed me by, that one. And me. My husband was well and truly put off live theatre. He has, however, in recent years enjoyed Hamilton, except he had to stand throughout the second half

due to a lack of leg room. And Hadestown, which we saw in New York earlier this year, I don't think I know that, when you're in the Big Apple, you've got to make the effort, and thankfully it was one of the shows not cancelled due to the smoke from the Canadian wildfires. Despite some failures and my husband's lack of enthusiasm, I continue to enjoy theatre visits.

I saw The Mousetrap when it came to Torquay on tour, and an Amdram production of Dad's Army a couple of years ago in our local little theatre. Give it another go for you might be surprised says Alison. Thank you Alison. You gonna give it another try? I might. I don't I don't know where to start though. Don't start with Lioness that I saw on Thursday night. No. So there was a time when I did used to go more often when I was embracing the cultural life of London, it probably was before kids, but I do remember

we went to see Woody Howelson in a play that was so astonishingly bad. We were not the only people who didn't come back after half-time. Is it called half-time? The Interval. But I did see Diana Rigg in the Madea and I stayed all the way

through that and I loved that Is that okay? You didn't see Glenda's Lear did you? I didn't see Glenda's Lear Oh I tell you what, I have also seen A View From A Bridge with Mark Strong and that must have been more recent, I think that's probably only 15 years ago, so I think

I'm a regular Thea DeGeneres I did see in the Times the other day that I can't unfortunately I can never not remember Mark Strong I did see in the Times the other day that... And he was lovely, by the way. Was he? I can't, unfortunately, I can never not remember Mark Strong doing the voiceover for... The Pandemic. Exactly.

He did all the government pandemic ads. And maybe he's just been lying low ever since, or maybe it's my imagination. Anyway, in the Times, I saw that Panto sales have gone through the roof this year. So I suddenly thought, oh my God, I must go and see my local panto and I have booked so my next theatre is the panto and who is starring in that uh no big stars but it's Cinderella okay and uh and it looks it looks just looks fun and um I was pretty surprised that uh the kids were both yes we definitely want to go to the panto

yes we'll get yes get us tickets so I think it's quite good when children get to an age where they're not embarrassed to be going to stuff like that. I used to go to the panto quite a bit and I quite enjoyed it. So I'm glad that we're on board for a family trip to the panto. Yeah, I agree with you. I don't think I'm in that kind of five-year gap. I think my kids are too old to want to go with me but too young to want to go with me.

And there is a gap, isn't there? I wonder whether Suella might appear in Panto. I should be free this Christmas. I suspect that she will be the punchline in many a gag. Many a gag. Well, especially because it does rhyme with Cruella. Well, exactly. Something that hadn't gone

unnoticed in headline writers over her policy-making decisions of the last year or so. Can I do Fiona's and Jane's? This comes in from Fiona Jane. Hello, Jane and Fee. I felt compelled to write in, having listened to your discussion

on the prevalence and women in their 50s named either Fiona or Jane. I'm 52. I'm from Hitchin. Who knew? It's another Hitchin mention. Wow. Hometown of the chief scientists of NASA, Louise Minchin, two of the England women's hockey team, James Bay, Jonathan Ross's mum Martha, rest in peace, Adam the actor who played the gay doctor in Holby City and George Ezra. Unverified. It's just ridiculous. Unverified. I can't be bothered to look it up in wiki. Anyway, so Fiona Jane goes on to say, I'm 52. My name is Fiona Jane. My sister

in law is also Fiona Jane and is 55. And we're both called Fiona Jane Dolman. It's like a cheese dream. This is slightly mortifying. If I ever tried to call a florist or shop to send my sister-in-law a gift, I can just hear the disbelief that it's not really for me. That must be terrible. You know, what's the delivery name? Fiona Jane Dolman. What's your name? Fiona Jane Dolman. How long is this going to go on for? And Fiona Jane Dolman says, I'm not the actress, Fiona Dolman, just to clarify. I think there might be a whole new thread about how the name Fiona gets shortened and if anyone can pronounce it without sounding slightly posh.

I've been called Fifi by most of my family, Feef by my dad, Fionia by my nan, Fee by my friends, Fiona at work and Doris by my husband. It's just a great email. All the best. Keep up the good work, etc, etc. From Fiona Jane Dolman, exclamation mark. Don't make me laugh. People are still writing about Jilly Cooper. This is from, oh, we don't need to mention her name. Jilly Cooper, what a legend. I'd like to thank her. I think I recall hearing somewhere that she always sends a handwritten thank you letter to people who have interviewed her.

I think that's classy. As a 54 year old, I remember the many occasions of diving back into her hardback edition of her work, not able to delay gratification enough to wait for the paperback. The price tended to be already already competitively reduced in W.H WH Smith's, then I would greedily read them in private if in public taking the incriminating cover of a red stiletto or a jodhpur-clad bottom-off, so it might appear I was reading something more literally edifying, Homer or Austen perhaps. Sometimes just needing a bit of dreamy escapism from the urban grittiness of everyday life, they always delivered a predictably comforting dopamine hit on some level. The Guardian may never have written a kind word,

but she is definitely having the last laugh. It was a charming and funny interview, and I'd be very jealous if you ever managed to have a lunch with her and get a tiny bit pissed. Please, please don't go and lose the manuscript for your next book in the process, though. Tally-ho, says our anonymous correspondent. Well, I'd love that lunch with Jilly Cooper.

I think I'd just love the handwritten thank you, but it's not come yet. I don't know what that says about us. We mustn't rule it out. No, so this is from Maria, who says, I just thought I'd back Jane up on her view of Uckfield. Oh, I very much like other bits of Sussex. I grew up in a small village a few miles outside Uckfield

and all I can say is that in the late 80s and early 90s, it was pretty grey. There was very little to do and it was absolutely the pits if you were a pretentious teenager with delusions of being edgy and interesting. I now live several hundred miles away in Yorkshire and I have done for the last 30 odd years.

But if anyone asks, I always say I'm from Lewis or even Brighton. My mum still lives in the same village and she assures me Uckfield is now quite refined and gentrified, having both a waitrose and a newly opened M&S food hall. Heavens. I know. Personally, even going near the place makes me feel a bit anxious and queasy about those years of teenage angst,

so I will steer well clear. One thing I do like to do is to check out occasionally the East Sussex County Council's latest move in its ongoing war against the local graffiti artist, the River Uck. Runs through the town and it passes under the bypass outside the town

where there was traditionally a sign announcing the river's name and no matter how inventive they got with the shape and the size of the sign, there was always a mysterious F added within days. Thank you very much indeed for that, Maria. And don't ever go back to Uckfield. Well, no, I'm sure I've already mentioned the village very close to where I grew up, which has the ancient Anglo-Saxon name of Lunt. It only takes one little strike. Believe me it happened on a weekly basis. Yep and well we won't

go into the there's a very famous street isn't there in Manchester. Let's just not do that. Well I do yes there is there's also the bridge in somewhere in Yorkshire called Ticklecock Bridge. Oh, lovely. Lovely, lovely. Yes, indeed. Rachel says that she was, as a teenager, obsessed by horses and boys and so loved Jilly Cooper. But when she took her copy of Riders to her granny's house at the age of 12, her granny sent her straight back to the bookshop in Crowborough and made her return it. Gosh, that's not a very liberal-minded girl. I

suppose 12, is that a bit young? I suppose it is. Oh, I don't know. Riders, yes. Oh no, you shouldn't have been looking at Riders at 12. You mucky pop, Rachel. You can imagine my excitement when in around 2001, my husband and i found ourselves in a rather empty restaurant in fulham jilly was at another table i was too shy to say anything to her but after she'd gone to the loo i rushed in afterwards so i could tell everyone who'd listen that i had at least sat on the same loo seat as jilly cooper right well that's it's something rachel isn't it um is that enough to cling to do you think i don't know it's just, it's something, Rachel, isn't it? Is that enough to cling to, do you think?

I don't know. It's just quite an unhygienic anecdote, isn't it? I think it's like when men say, oh, you know, I saw so-and-so, and they say, where did you see them? Oh, you know, we were in the urinals together. And you just think, gosh. As long as I live, I'll not understand urinals. No, I think if I was a man i'd use a stall a hundred trillion percent uh lots of you um

uh enjoyed the casta simenia interview i'd like to say hello to kate in loughton and katherine who's listening in new york and a couple of people didn't uh and of course you're absolutely entitled to those opinions and thank you for getting in touch. This one comes from Happy Monday I've had a fab couple of days catching up on all things off air and hooted my way through each podcast, nearly emailed yesterday

after hearing about a listener on the west coast of Scotland and her cocker spaniel I was all ready to text my darling mum and ask if she had listened to that episode yet as I'd been hooting already when he went on to say her dog's name. Thought better of texting my mum Morag then. So does that mean that we've already had a text in from her mum? I thought that, but I wasn't sure.

OK, well, that would be spooky. Today on my drive home from Ikea and Costco, really, never again on a Sunday. Yeah, take that as a warning, everybody. I enjoyed the email from the listener whose beau had to get up to go to the skate park. That was just a lovely one. I was reminded of a very short-lived relationship I had about a decade ago with a younger colleague. I was not long divorced, so this was a huge ego boost. And I confided in another colleague as I was feeling very proud of myself.

Some weeks later, confided in colleague and I were in a meeting with short lived relationship chap. There were about 12 of us in total, I think. It turns out it had been his birthday and somebody asked what gifts he'd receive. And I'll never forget his answer of a TV for my bedroom and some driving lessons. Right. I hope you're thoroughly ashamed of yourself. My colleague in the know and I nearly needed medical attention from lack of oxygen from suppressing laughter. Youngster is now nearly 30 and really rather dishy, although not sure if he ever did pass his driving test. Well, look, I mean, you could be applying for your driving test at any age,

but perhaps he would. I think we know. I think we know what went on there. Anyway, thank you for that. You could have given him driving lessons. Well, wouldn't that be romantic? No, actually... Oh, my God.

Could you give... The idea of giving a child a driving lesson... No, I'd rather teach Nancy to drive. No. I do not know how parents can do that. I absolutely have no idea. Yeah, and hats off to the ones who do, actually, because you must need to be so, so patient.

And also, you're just in that nightmarish... The roles are just completely wrong, aren't they? You can't enforce safety enough in that, and your child is in control of a very, very dangerous moving vehicle. Yeah, no, that's not going to happen. I suppose sometimes it's all right if you've got private land, isn't it? Well, Jane, do you have private land? I'm going to drive the Mini Cooper over the artificial grass,

see if the student will eventually get round to taking a test again. No, it wouldn't work, and I will never do that in a million years voiceover describes what's happening on your iphone screen voiceover on settings so you can navigate it just by listening books contacts calendar double tap to open breakfast with anna from 10 to 11 and get on to Martin Kemp? Was he the guitarist in Spandau Ballet, wasn't he? Well, he was, but didn't, I mean, they all did some backing vocals. I don't want to be controversial.

We're not going down that road. Gold! Yes. But I think they were humming along. We're not going down that road. Gold! Yes. But I think they were humming along in the background too. Very much so. I can see Martin now in a sort of tartan, he had like a tartan sash across. Yes. He certainly cut a dash. Very big

kind of baggy trousers. They were like, they were very, how can I put it, otherworldly in a rather wonderful way back in the early 80s. And he's not lost it. He hasn't. There was general agreement in the office. He's got beautiful blue eyes and lovely manners.

Lovely manners. He did. He cut a dash. Yes. He's no cliff, but he cut a dash. We've done, as you may know if you're a regular listener, some very, very intense and hard-hitting interviews with Kemps over the course of our tenure here on Times Radio.

There was Ross, there was Gary, and I'm going to say we've probably hit the jackpot today with Martin. The three brothers. We're holding out for Roman. Don't you think we're not? Oh, here we are. I think you probably will, is the truth. Martin Kemp, of course, you know him from Spandau Ballet

and from all his acting, notably in... What would you say was your greatest acting role? Well, it all depends how old you are. I think, you know, if you go back a few years, then it's Spandau, but then if you're a little bit younger, I suppose it's The Craves, The Cray Twins. Which Cray did you play? I played Reggie Cray.

OK. My brother was Ronnie. And if you're a little bit younger than that, probably EastEnders. Yeah, OK. You're not in EastEnders now, though, are you? No, 20 years ago. Yeah, they blew me up.

Did they? Yeah, completely. They blew me up on purpose because I resigned and then they said to me, where are you going? Because we'd like you to come back at some point. And I said, well, I'm going over to ITV to make a few dramas. At which point?

At which point they blew me up. Fair enough. Well, don't upset the people at EastEnders. Clearly that's the message there. Walford's a rough old place, isn't it? Yeah. Now, your first novel is called The Game. Yeah.

And it features a character that, I mean, obviously the first question to you has got to be are you the central character johnny klein well there's a lot of me in that protagonist there's a lot of me in that central character but there's a lot of me in all of the characters even the young indian girl even the the old lady that's in there um there's me because it's all my emotions you know obviously you know you know i kind of had this idea probably 30 years ago right because i had this terrible fear in the middle of the 80s when the band was at its height and we were probably one of the biggest bands in the world at that point have you hang on have you seen spandau ballet live i have you have i have yeah was it good very good martin great thank you um but we've probably one of the biggest bands in the world

at that point in the middle of the 80s and i had this terrible fear inside of me all the time that i that i couldn't enjoy life because i i kept wondering what will happen if it was all taken away tomorrow, absolutely everything. So I had to sell up the character in the book, lock, stock and barrel, and have nothing left. But all you are left with is a famous face. And where does that leave you? How do you get back into real life

if everybody's pointing at you you saying that used to be him that used to be that pop star as the game opens johnny is absolutely on his uppers he's losing his house and he's completely reliant on the on the really nice help of a good friend called mona who puts him up basically in an attic at her uncle's restaurant. It's an Indian restaurant in Brick Lane called Graceland. Right. That is kind of like an Elvis Presley theme park. And so Brick Lane comes out of it because I wanted to write about that place

because it was something that always stuck in my mind from when my, on a Sunday, my dad used to take me and gary to visit different parts of london like the monument or tower bridge or something like that and uh brick lane was the one place that kind of stayed in my mind because it was so full of color it was so full of different smells that i hadn't uh smelled before and different tastes well it's the art it's not actually that far from where we're sitting now in London Bridge is it? You could get there in ten minutes or so. Absolutely.

And it's an absolute melting pot of all kinds of Huguenot and Jewish settlers and then you've got Bengali folk and all kinds it's a crazy place but a brilliant one It's a brilliant place and it is a brilliant place to write about so I wanted to put him in there.

But this is what I wanted. I wanted Johnny Cline to have absolutely nothing left. He has to sell up lock, stock and barrel. So he leaves everything in the big old mansion that he used to own, and he has to live above an Indian restaurant in Brick Lane. Yeah, and his only view of the world is through, there's a massive cardboard cutout of Elvis outside the restaurant. Yeah.

And he can see through his eye. Well, yes. I mean, really, I'll tell you why I wanted that. It was because, imagine this, imagine the front of a building. You know those little plastic discs that get blown around in the wind? You know, they're kind of on lots of uh billboards down in leicester square and they move around and so that makes the kind of face come to life really and i wanted a picture of elvis up in front of the restaurant it's kind of like 40 foot by 40 foot made out of these plastic little pieces that move around and uh on the front it's a picture of Elvis, but not in his heyday.

It's a picture of Elvis when he was grossly overweight in Vegas and his chin used to wobble with these plastic discs. And the window is Elvis's eye, not really because of what he's looking out onto. It's that when he's in his bed sit, the window is Elvis's eye that is looking at him all the time and how sad it is. So it's kind of like works both ways. Johnny can look out onto Brick Lane, but Elvis is always looking at him and it makes Johnny feel like everything

has gone wrong. Well, we don't want to give away the plot, but basically Johnny gets mixed up with some unfortunate folk. I mean, it all comes back to haunt him he's he's a bad lad but he's also a lovable one and i have to say his relationships with the ladies continue despite um despite his lack of financial appeal shall we say the women still keep coming and he is married as well isn't he well he's married he has that so you know i love a little bit of soap uh the best of times you you know, and I wanted to put that in there as well, kind of family drama. So that's inside there as well. But do you know what I really liked about writing Johnny Klein

was that it was his vulnerability. And I think it was that that the ladies go for. You know, when I was writing it, the more vulnerable I could make him. You want to make them better. Yeah, the more vulnerable I could make him. You want to make them better, that's the thing. Yeah, the more vulnerable I could make him, the better it works. Just looking at my colleague there. No, we've all been there, Martin. And paid

a heavy price, it has to be said. You do say that what goes on on tour stays on tour. Yeah, yeah. And Johnny finds it very difficult when he gets, or used to back in the day, used to find it very difficult readjusting to domestic life yeah after the heady excitement of life on the road yeah was it like that for you absolutely uh i mean if you speak to any rock rock star or anybody in a band uh that has lived that life um when you wake up in the morning on

tour and everything is done for you, you know, from someone packing your bags to someone ordering your food, everything is done for you. And then you have the reality of coming home when that tour finishes. And it is a real downer. No matter how much you want to be at home

and you dream of going home all the way through the tour, you miss home like crazy. But when you get there, it takes the time to readjust. Is it still the case for you if you've been out and about doing a job and you get back and Shirley says, do the bins? No, not anymore for me. I've got well used to that now. 62 years on, I've got well used to putting the bins out.

How do you teach your son in particular about coping with fame? Because your son has, he's not gone into a band, but he's a well-known TV and radio centre. Yeah, he's doing really well on his own, Roman. He's in the right profession for who he was as a little boy. You know, he was always the centre of attention. And growing up, you have to imagine that in my house, I had some of the most famous people in pop music

around my dinner table sometimes. And I will always remember Roman at 10 years old, 11 years old, who was always so super articulate at one end of the table. And at the other end of the table was George Michael. And the two of them, George would never give up an argument, ever. He would argue until he was blue in the face, even if he knew he was wrong. Good man.

Everybody used to walk away from him and just leave those two going at each other. So Roman always understood fame. And he saw, being around George George as well he saw the darker sides of fame and um it's something that me and Ro always spoke about when he was growing up and I'm trying to explain to him always that fame is about it's kind of like getting a ticket for a better job in this bubble called entertainment and the more famous you are the bigger your ticket is well on that note have you seen the robbie williams documentary on netflix

yeah i have yeah yeah i mean i just got fed up with him sitting around in his pants yes there was a lot of him in his pants scratching his bottom yeah and that but i did find it if i'm honest dispiriting because he he was drawn to the very thing that was both right and very wrong for him. He couldn't resist it, could he? Well, you can't. It's kind of like I always said when I started in the band, it's kind of like making a deal with the devil.

You can't win, you know. And most kids, if you offer them that deal, if you say, okay, the devil's got a deal for you right you can live the most incredible life for for 15 years as a rock star moving around in your learjets and all what comes with it but then after that you've got to pay a price most kids would snap it of course but you seem to your brother actually, you seem to have come through all of that really with your head still screwed on. So how come you've managed to not fall off the great big... I think it was because I spent the first...

When I was 10 years old, I was with the beautiful lady that just passed away only yesterday, Anna Sher. Yeah, her stage school. Yeah. And I was there for probably eight years where I was doing all those 1970s TV shows like Comedy Playhouse, Play for Today, all of that. And I think that and Anna gave me my grounding. Anna was the most beautiful lady when I was a grown-up.

And I always say that, even today, that she was the one probably who gave me the good side of my personality. The bad side, I think, came from Steve Strange. Right. OK, don't go to his stage school, kids. But Anna gave me half of my personality and i think it was her me and gary both went there and i think it was her that gave us the grounding has gary read the book uh not yet no no you're very you're much at pains to point out you that

you wrote this yeah yeah because i suppose there might be be, and I hate to break it to the listeners, the magic of some parts of the literary world, is that people put their name to stuff they haven't written. Yeah, of course. But you've written this. Listen, it's all part of entertainment. If that's what you want to do, then that's the road you go up.

But for me, writing was something that I loved doing. I've written several biographies in the past and I grew up writing film scripts as well and a couple of them got made into movies. So putting the two things together was really nice. And I spent a long time in Los Angeles in the 90s. And if you read a lot of scripts there, now British scripts are more like bullet points, film scripts.

American scripts are pieces of art and they are beautiful things to read. And I think a lot of what the style of that book is in my time in Los Angeles. Okay. And so you are then shooing to play the part of Johnny Cline. I don't know. Listen, that's it.

Oh, come on, Martin. Please. Look, having your book turn into a movie or a TV show is every writer's dream. And it's the perfect pension. And why wouldn't you do that? It would be wonderful. I'll have to do an audition, I dare say.

No, surely not. Just as we mentioned, Brick Lane and I Do Love a Curry, what's your favourite? Oh, Dahl. I was expecting something a, what's your favourite? Oh, a dal. I was expecting something a bit fiery. No, dals are the thing. I could miss all of the chicken dinners, all of the prawns. I could just go for the dal dip.

Really? I'm with you on that. Garlic dal. Just as long as you've got some really lovely fluffy... Oh, I can get the number out. I'm going to get a delivery. Martin Kemp. We nearly asked him about what he thought about Lord Cameron,

but then we didn't, did we? No, we just chickened out. We're not very good at going for the really, really tough questions, are we? What's your favourite Span track? Gosh, I had the 12-inch of We Don't Need

This Pressure On. Oh, that's my least favourite. Yeah, well, funnily enough. It's't Need This Pressure On. Oh, that's my least favourite. Yeah, well, funnily enough. It's quite an odd beat. I bought it not because I liked it, but because I wanted to be seen as fearfully trendy. OK. I thought, interestingly,

I really like their song Through the Barricades. Well, I'd just written that down. That is my absolute favourite. One of the very few attempts to write a song about Northern Ireland. Yeah. We made our love on Wasteland and Through the Barricades. One of the very few attempts to write a song about Northern Ireland. About Northern Ireland, yeah. We made our love on Wasteland and through the barricades. They were responsible for the worst couplet, I'm afraid. She used to be a diplomat and now she's down the laundromat.

I don't think it's up there with Toto's Africa. Oh, no, nothing. No, nothing. Nothing's up there. God almighty. Yeah. I would honestly say that Bachelor Boy

is better than that. Oh, my God. So if you were there last night at Cliff, you'll know where I'm coming from. OK. I just want to say

a quick hello to Rosalind, who I met on Saturday afternoon. Oh, good reminder. Can I say a quick hello to Andy, who I bumped into on Friday morning? And it was so nice to meet you, Andy.

You said something so kind to me about family life that I am never, ever going to forget. And it was really lovely to meet you. Where were you, though? No, I was just outside a cafe having a nice mum coffee. And Andy came past and she said the spooky thing while she was listening to the podcast. Oh, no, that's right. And she saw me there.

And anyway, we had a really, really lovely chat. She really got her money's worth there, didn't she? Listening and then meets you. She sends you her love. Oh, hello, Andy. And we had a lovely off-air hug, and she went on her way. But it was really nice to meet you, Andy. That all spooked you out.

It's quite frightening, isn't it? Oh, no, we've done all this. We've done... It's not Halloween. We're moving on to the even more frightening season of You Know What? Little Toe and Wine. Oh, you're starting me off again. VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings.

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