Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Alexa, get me a fella! (with Oti Mabuse)

Episode Date: February 22, 2024

Jane and Fi have a small confession about their intro into the guest today - hang around until the end of the episode to hear that. They also chat long babies, hair removal and life in the 'fast Jane'. They're joined by professional dancer Oti Mabuse to discuss T-levels and her career. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfiAssistant Producer: Eve SalusburyTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Someone with a penis has been in touch. I'm setting everybody up for who's coming up later. Oti Mabusi. Thank you. Formerly on Strictly as one of the dancers, one of the pros. She won it a couple of times, didn't she? Two-time. Two-time winner.

Now on Dancing Eve, darling. What did you have for breakfast? Sauerkraut. Oh, my word. Disgusting. Now a judge on Dancing on Ice. On that place we used to call the other side. I used to watch Dancing on Ice when the kiddies were younger.

It's not really on my... Do you watch it? No, I find I'm too nervous to watch it. Although I did catch... Come on, but we used to watch it because of the jeopardy. Yeah, no, but I just don't like... I mean, some of them are just so... And I would be too, hapless on the ice.

Who was on this season, though, who really was funny? I want to say Ricky Hatton. Do you? Ricky Hatton, the... Who was on Dancing on Ice? A boxer. A boxer who was on Dancing on Ice? Yeah, let me just look it up.

Funny as in not very good. Tony Bellew? No, no. It was really painful to watch. And the thing is that the audience always wants to keep those people in, don't they? They don't want the people who've actually been trained at dance school.

It's the Widdicombe factor, isn't it? And have lived in Canada for 13 years and have skated every day of their lives. We see you we do we do see you well said uh all right you crack on okay so somebody with a penis has uh contacted this very podcast we're very grateful to to the many people who have seen dandruff out in the wild and want to comment upon that subject. But this is from a man who says he would be more than happy with the moniker Sit Down Simon. He writes as follows. This is in response to the extraordinary contribution we had

from a listener who'd observed a man by the side of a busy motorway doing what she described as the McDonald's arches of roadside wheeze. Simon says, as you've recently veered on your show Two Things Penile, can I make an observation? Yes, you can. Why is it that most men, when having a wee at home, persist in doing so standing up? About a decade ago, it dawned on me that this is just daft.

My own urethra moment, nicely done, Simon. Very nice. Yeah, it came when I was having a wee, and noticed the stainless steel bathroom bin to one side of the toilet stainless steel is well known for highlighting every last blemish it's not really stainless then is it think fingerprints on kitchen surfaces and i was horrified oh lord this i was horrified to note a film of tiny droplets resulting from even my well-aimed stream. Ever since, I've done my number ones seated. It has the advantage of providing a more complete bladder emptying.

And although frequency is not yet an issue, 61 as you've asked, and not yet getting up in the night, I figured it was a good habit to get into against the day when things are not so reliable. It does baffle me why we men persist in standing up at home. Outside in public toilets, I get it. But then we are talking urinals designed for the purpose. Home toilets are not. Well, I am in complete agreement. I've looked online for a comment says simon some men claim there are physical issues with tackle alignment and so on but i'm not buying that after all a number two invariably involves a wee and dear lord please tell me that men aren't standing for a poo i think we've heard enough from simon how much more have we got simon it's the last dribble coming uh well uh yeah i i would ask you i mean i i you lost for work well so i live in an all-female household but my sister has a husband and two sons and one

of her but i have known a man i don't know not really uh my sister is constantly complaining about lavatory activity of this sort and it's just the mess now i've often thought is it that the toilet is badly designed is it the male of the species well is it the combination of the two species so don't criticize my brother-in-law there is a limit you can have a go at my sister but i like my brother-in-law um no i'm not my nephews either we're two ladies and a and anyear-old young man in our house. And I can honestly say... You don't have stainage issues.

No, it's not a problem. Well, so, but Simon's... Well, let's see. Let's see what the audience says. Yeah. But well spotted on Stainless Steel that there was a slight kind of film of urinal mist. Gosh, this has taken a turn. Anyway, who boxer oh no it's not so he just he looks a little bit like a boxer and he's

called ricky but who was ricky norwood no i'm still none the wise enders legend oh that ricky norwood yeah okay walford wonder ricky. Yeah. Right. So this isn't really helping anything very much, but I'm very grateful to you for your effort. Right. What else do you have that's caught your eye, Bea? Well, I just wanted to go back to an email that we received earlier during the week, and then we've got loads and loads more from people.

A lot of people have had affairs, Jane. Yes, well, I was quite shocked well that's no surprise is it um uh this one uh comes from sam and the bit that i want to refer to in sam's email because it's about lots of different things and we're grateful to you always actually when people pick up lots of different threads i want to refer back to superfluous hair growth, as this is my bag. And Sam is a beauty therapist of 37 years. She's 53 now, runs her own business,

and hair of all types is her thing. She says, I want to reassure you and your listeners that there are people out there who you can turn to for every stray hair concern. The odd strong dark one on the chin, fine fluffies on the top lip etc etc you name it it's our daily life it's our job to make sure women and men can safely go back into the world dolphin slick and be reassured it's fabulous if anyone arrives for a facial they will be discreetly de-haired

if so desired which i think is just i don't understand why if you go for a facial your beauty therapist doesn't automatically say should i just take out these little twigs along the way i'd be grateful is that because that around some beauty therapists have asked exactly that and they've got they've had short shift yeah maybe maybe but i think uh i think most women would like to because sometimes you don't really notice, do you, when some of the stray hairs have crept up. And sometimes, Jane, they appear to grow overnight. So there was... I saw one on my neck the other day. I thought, oh, the cat's rubbed up against me.

It's a great big, long thing. It's kind of literally... I mean, does that make a sound when it grows? Are you very slowly becoming a werewolf? I am. But Sam just makes lots and lots of lovely points. And she says, we are women of the village and we are here in people's lives as therapists, advisories,

mother substitutes, sisters, careers advisers, DIY specialists, marriage guidance counsellors and general yellow pages, as well as the obvious skin and treatment advisers. It's a pity our government thinks so little of us, sadly, and don't give us very much support. And I suppose, you know, most beauty therapists are operating as sole traders, tiny businesses.

I mean, your business rates would be high, your premises would be high. They had a really tough time in the pandemic. Yeah, definitely. Those of us especially who are of advancing years understand that we offer a place of safety to share whether your body parts are normal and your fears are real. My advice to your listeners who are relocating to new cities

would be to try and visit a long established salon and treat yourselves. Plus, ask where the local book club or kickboxing class is while you're there. And that's such a good idea, isn't it? That's referring all the way back to our North Staffordshire correspondent who was feeling a bit lonely in a new place. And actually, the beauty salon and your local beauty therapist

will know everybody and the best places to go and all of that. Sam, can I ask you a personal question? Not entirely relevant yet, but sometimes I do think, at what age should you stop having a bikini wax or your legs waxed? Because your skin changes, doesn't it? You can't possibly wax very old skin can you i don't think you should but i say that i've absolutely no idea no so i just wonder whether she's got any insight into that you see i suppose in most no because you can't generalize about this there are cultures um where people strip down to practically nothing at a relatively advanced

age on the beach and i say more power to them it's brilliant to see you didn't used to see that in britain or places that we might visit on holiday did you we were i remember going to eastern europe for the first time to croatia and you'd get these fantastic these beautiful periods of the day sort of between about 8 o'clock and 10, when the older ladies would go down to the sea... In the morning. In the morning, and just sit there having coffee and a chat and some fig brandy, whatever took their fancy.

And, you know, frankly, they weren't wearing many clothes. I think some ladies just used to sit there in a housecoat. Nice. But more power to them. But I do remember feeling, or the first time I saw a woman in her 80s in a very skimpy beach wear to my shame I was quite surprised

and I suppose a bit shocked what shocked you? I don't think in Britain obviously the temperature isn't always in our favour but you don't generally see people in bikinis or even one pieces over the age of what would you say this is see people in bikinis or even one pieces over the age of, what would you say? This is perhaps back in the day.

Maybe people have got more open to this sort of thing now. Well, I think you're right. I don't think, I think there was a pretty much a kind of cut off point about 45. It's stupid. It's so outrageous. It is so stupid, but as part of the swimming community. Oh, yes. So, you know.

Of course. No, but there are so many because because swimming and particularly uh outdoor swimming and stuff is just so helpful when you're going through the menopause actually you're seeing i've seen you know more older female bodies in the last four or five years than i ever did in my entire life beforehand and it is wonderfully comforting and i do think also and we're going to have to add this to our incredibly busy third age. We've just got so many projects on the go, Jane. I mean, we'll have to stop work just because we've got so much work to do.

But a Lido that every, you know, within reasonable distance from every single person in the country is such a good thing because aside from all of the benefits of swimming, you don't need me to yabber on about that. No, we don't. Oh, Jane, I very rarely mention it. more of the benefits of swimming you don't need me to yabber on about that it's about oh jane i very rarely mention it um i just would quite like you to come because then you might you might appreciate the benefits but uh the body image thing is just so important and in our local lido

which is in quite a hipstery part of town all of that kind of jazz if you go in and it's full on a summer's day there will be out of maybe you know 400 people there sometimes there will be maybe not that many 300 there will only be one person who has a kind of magazine type body and that will be because they're genetically built that way and otherwise there's every single kind of person that's great every single shape and for kids and teenagers i think is so healthy to just realize that everybody has got a blob here and a knobbly knee there and a bit of belly fat and a flabby arm it just makes you feel good makes you feel normal to it's that old beach are you beach ready if you or is your body beach

ready if you've got a body and you're near a beach absolutely mine is permanently ready for canby island there we are barry island I would go for. Yeah. But that hasn't answered the question, is there an age at which you should stop waxing your legs? So if anyone knows the answer to that, which is where we started about last Thursday. It was a nice chat. And I think that you will find yourself on the beach in a house coat with some fig brandy.

Oh, God, I hope so. Yeah, it's coming. It's coming. Home Alone this evening, so catching up with Off Air, says Danny. Can I just say, if you're out and about, even with other people, you can still listen to Off Air. I mean, we think you should prioritise it. Maybe have an evening where you invite your friends around, put it on. Don't have to talk to them.

Put it on the smart speaker and nobody speak. Oh, no, don't have a smart speaker. Oh, God, no. No, because there's a news story today that famous people shouldn't have smart speakers. There's an expert who's reported to Parliament that they think that it means that people can kind of tap into their everyday lives more easily. You could sit outside, tap into the Wi-Fi and find out what, you know, George Clooney has just shouted at Alexa.

That'd be funny, wouldn't it? It would actually be fun. That's some homework for you over the course of the next couple of days. Anyway, Danny has been doing some work for us, suggesting names for a female car show. Oh, he's a genius. She's got some crackers here. Fiat 500, a 500-mile road trip with Fee Glover.

That's just... That's genius. That's just got to be made. Land Roveries. Yeah, almost works. Miss Edie's bends yeah it works yeah that does yeah and uh what was my other favorite clutches and clutch bags oh no there's a there's a very good one with your name in it there life in the fast jane oh yeah that's that's good as well sorry i hadn't spotted that, Danny.

I'm having a bit of a poor day there. Thank you very much. And let us know how your evening of silent appreciation of off-air, how it goes down with your neighbours and friends when you ask them all in. That would be quite good. We used to have, there was a bit of a thing, I don't know whether it still happens, you'd sit in a room and just listen to a whole album.

Do you remember when that came in quite recently, I think? Had it gone out or not? When podcasting first took off, there were dark podcast nights, weren't there? Where you'd go and kind of lie down on beanbags

somewhere in Dalston, basically. I'm sure it was. And people would just play podcasts and you'd listen in this audio world with lots of other people listening in their audio world. I went to one. I felt a bit uncomfortable, actually. You feel a bit of a tit.

Well, the thing is, what you're listening to now, you'll probably listen to it on your own and that is probably a huge part of why you like it. You know, it's not... And also because you don't want other people to know that you listen. Yeah, radio is not a kind of communal thing really, is it? No. This is from Susan who's in Vancouver.

A good friend of hers got her into the show and she's really enjoying it. Well, thank you and thanks to your friend as well, Susan. Listening to you talk about girdles brings me back to my very beginnings. My mother always had quick births but mine almost came in a taxi and I was born eight minutes after she went through the hospital door. It was so fast I was told they had to cut her girdle off her. But this is what puzzles me. Did women at nine months pregnant wear girdles? I was horrified even if it brought a funny image. I must have been literally bursting out. I think someone else needs to tell us.

Surely women in the latter stages of pregnancy were not wearing girdles. I hope not. It can't have been very wise. It must have been excruciating and presumably not great for the baby either. Anyway, someone will know. But I know it's possible that your mum may have somewhat embroidered the birth experience. It would be quite helpful. But I know it's possible that your mum may have somewhat embroidered the birth experience. It would be quite helpful to have. So you could, if you're having a very big baby or the baby had kind of sunk a bit too early,

there were kind of straps, weren't there? There were girdles with straps that you could wear to kind of hitch a bump up. Really? Yes. I did not know that. Yeah, I was offered one of those because my first pregnancy was huge. Yes, well. Actually, we did have some

emails, didn't we, about very, very big babies? Yeah, well, we had an email I think it might have been the week you were off from the second longest baby ever born at Salisbury Hospital. Wow. I know. Is there a plaque? A plaque? I don't know about that, V. Is that how they say it in Dalston?

Now, sightings of dandruff. Oh, yeah. Katie says, first time emailer here. Welcome, Katie. Now, you've cracked it. You can email again. There's no shame involved. I saw Bernie Sanders on Channel 4 News last night.

Now, so did I. Alas, says Katie, Bernie's suit jacket was covered in dandruff and it was quite distracting um yes i don't know whether you noticed this too katie i katie says she runs a small business and we help to keep her sane gordon bennett um what struck me about bernie sanders is frankly alive. Yes, he is not. And I speak myself as somebody who's, you know, no spring chicken, but nor is Bernie. And he's still, though, I don't know, I look forward to the age where we venerate women of, you know,

in their 80s to the degree that we appear to give lots of airtime to Bernie Sanders. I know he's in many ways a good thing, and like Katie, I admire him, but he didn't actually seem to be all that au fait at all with British politics, and quite a few of the questions he was asked were about British politics. Okay. Can I just say Nancy Pelosi, I think, is venerated in a very good way. Yes, no, you're absolutely right. And so is Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

So maybe it's over here more than over there. Do you know what? I just long for the day when we can see American politics debated by American politicians who are younger than us. Well, that would be something, wouldn't it? Wouldn't it? Because you and I could both be the children of the two main contenders. Yeah, we could.

I mean, our current Prime Minister... Which of the two would you pick? ...is younger than both of us, but the leader of the opposition is older. Keir Starmer's, what, 63? Is he? I think he looks very good on it, actually. I don't know if he's 63. I think he is.

Shall I look that up as well? Oh, God. My search history is just men. Just men today. Fellas. Fellas. Fellas. They're looking up fellas all day, shouting at the Alexa, get me a fella.

Glyn says, my theory on dandruff is that it is still around, but as men dress more casually for work these days, it's less visible. Growing up in the 70s, no male teacher's suit jacket was complete without a liberal flurry of dandruff. Who wears a suit nowadays, though? As an aside, the thought of somebody being called dandruff always really amuses me. In a similar vein, I was once sent out

of an O-level physics lesson for wondering aloud if anybody was called Ray Diagram. I tell you what, Glyn was a bit of a card back in the day. No wonder they sent you out. Got your marching orders quite right too. Keir Starmer is 61. He's only 61. So no wonder you thought he was 63 and looking good on it.

He looks two years younger. Okay. Shall we just do one big affair thingy each? Well, you take care of this. Because I'm still in Dandruff territory here. Right. Well, I just want to make sure that I've got... Because I think we've had some very, very, very kind ones.

Oh, and just while he's having a quick sift, I just want to shout out to Catherine, who has reminded me of the story last week of my favourite travel organisation, Avanti West, giving menopause gift bags to female employees. These gift bags included jelly babies, just in case you feel like biting somebody's head off. And unsurprisingly, a many, many number,

a great many number, there's some English in there, I'm not quite sure where, of Avanti West employees were really quite indignant about this. I mean, my only wish for Avanti West is that their trains actually leave and reach the appointed destination at something approximating the right time. I do not want a gift bag commemorating the menopause from any employer. And in fact, V, I've said it before, I'll say it again, I sometimes feel nostalgia for the days when the menopause was a stigma

and a terrible thing that we never talked about. Do you, genuinely? I think it's a great thing, Jane. I'm being semi-ironic there. But it does feel at the moment like you can't shift. It's on the front page of The Times again today. But it'll be there for a while and then it will cease to be newsworthy.

But it's good it's been put there it is good but yes i have to say if i was going to talk about something that impacted on my um quality of life and work performance because the story today is about menopause in the workplace and how you absolutely have to consider uh workers who are going through the menopause i was much more impacted by chronic period pains at work than i was by the menopause. I was much more impacted by chronic period pains at work than I was by the menopause. Maybe we're now talking about that as well, actually. Yes, and I think some very kind forward thinking

and properly equal companies do allow sick days just for period pains. Do they? Okay, right. Whereas I think you and I come from that place where we just took an inordinate number of painkillers, sometimes wore a funny TENS patch and just cracked on, came to work and, you know, crucified ourselves in the toilets in our lunch breaks, doubled up with pain.

So I would sympathise with you about that. But I think that men, you know, we won't, you don't carry on talking about something that has moved up the agenda, finally made it to the top of the agenda. You don't carry on, you know, endlessly discussing it. I think it's such a good thing that people are more aware of the menopause.

And I think, you know, maybe you and I have just come through ours with more ease than other women. I do know women who've been polaxed and who have stopped working, definitely stopped working full time. That's a bit, well, more than a bit miserable. Yeah, so I think it's all right by me. Shall I just do this one email? And thank you so much.

We've read all of your emails about affairs and very few people actually, we had one email this week from the wife of a husband who'd had an affair, who basically just said um why is everybody being so sympathetic to this woman who is a marriage breaker so that is a thought to plant well and thank you to that person because that's true she's been there and it was crap yep so this is going to be anonymous and because you want to remain anonymous i'm just going to sub down your

life story so that there aren't too many details that other people might recognise. So this comes from a woman who just found herself in a marriage that was kind of defined by indifference and that is a horrible place to be. The youngest of our four children had just gone away to university and she found herself just in rather a kind of bleak place, and then embarked on an affair with an unattached man six years her junior. So I'll pick it up in your own words. Now, the question I've often asked myself with hindsight is, did this falling in love and being unfaithful happen so that I could extricate myself from the marriage? It certainly had this effect on discovering the affair three months in. my husband expelled me from the marital home and that was that whereas i would think most

couples might talk things over and get counseling this was never what my husband wanted i was the debauched whore over the subsequent seven years as the divorce went through the courts and the marital home eventually sold his anger continued the level of verbal and psychological abuse meted out to me in unavoidable emails it knew no bounds those seven years was so hard financially and in other ways two three of my four children emigrated during this time it's such a painful thing to bear because the grandchildren are now elsewhere another topic for discussion maybe and quite possibly yeah we will talk about that but our correspondent goes on to say I'm now 66 recently retired I'm settled into my new home I'm starting a new life in a different location and I'm fortunately still good friends with the

man I had the affair with he's very much been my rock over these difficult years we love each other very much and meet up for long walks every weekend neither of us want to grow old alone but we don't want to live together yet um and so i suppose we've had experiences from all angles now and uh i think everybody would have enormous sympathy with you for finding yourself on the receiving end of such an extraordinary amount of anger if actually what had happened before the anger was just indifference i mean you can't you can't have your cake and eat it if you're in a partnership with somebody who just appears not to like you or want to be with you or listen to your thoughts or whatever it seems really weird to them be so

angry when they decide comes to an end and they head off out into the world. So thank you very much indeed for sharing that. And she ends by saying, I'm pretty sure that men and women have affairs for different reasons. Men much more so than women. Thank you for keeping me company, making me smile and sometimes making me laugh out loud.

And there are different reasons. Do we know statistically whether it is more likely that men have affairs? We don't. Do we know that for certain? Well, I mean, if they're heterosexual men, then aren't as many women having the affair with them? You see what I mean? Yeah. But you mean attached men start an affair with a single woman

as opposed to married women having lots of affairs with single men. Do you know, I don't know what it was I was asking. I think I may have clarified your thought for you. Thank you very much. That's what I'm here for, Jane. Right. I know I shouldn't be so obsessed by dandruff, but it has made me laugh, this.

This is from Marie. Thank you so much for reading up my email highlighting the dandruff conundrum. This is where we all started, of course. I posed the question a couple of days ago via Insta with the title, Does Nick Cave have dandruff? As a famous wearer of the sombre suit, I happened to be sitting two rows behind him in church a couple of weeks ago,

and I'm pleased to report, and this will delight Nick Cave's many admirers, that there wasn't a snowflake in sight. I'm not surprised. Although somebody made a comment that back in the 1990s they were at a book signing of his and there was definitely a dusting around the collar. So he had... So retrospectively we think that Nick Cave may have had dandruff.

Well, maybe he's bought some head and shoulders in the intervening years. Someone else told me that twice a week they give their head a good seeing to with a stiff brush. There's no need to do that. Perhaps there is. Our guest today is Oti Mabusi. She is now a judge on ITV's

dance show Dancing on Ice. Before that, she was one of the professional dancers and an absolutely outstanding one on the BBC's Strictly show. She won twice with Kelvin Fletcher, then again with the very popular Bill Bailey, which isn't to say that Kelvin wasn't popular, because he certainly was. Do you remember when Kelvin came on the show, he was a replacement for someone else, and then he went on and won it?

No, I don't remember that. I haven't actually watched Strictly for many, many, many seasons. I'm so sorry. Thank you. Thank you for that, V. Look, I've clarified one thought. This is all that's in my contract. So Oti is a genuinely outstanding dancer. She's one of these dancers who radiates joy in what she's doing, joy in her craft.

But did you know that she studied engineering at university? Well, I didn't. And the reason why we've been gifted and granted an interview with her is because she's going to tell us some very interesting things about T-levels. Now, I put it to you. Do you know what a T-level is? Well, a T-level basically is a qualification and it's a two-year course that is tailored for or actually targeted for teenagers between the ages of 16 and 19 and for one T level it's equivalent to three A levels and within this two years

of studying they also get 45 days of industry placement which means before they actually go and work they've got a little bit of an idea what it's going to feel like to work in the industry that they've studied. Okay, and you're taking a particular interest in the T levels in engineering and manufacturing. And there'll be some people who are thinking, hey, this is OT from the telly, what's she got to do with this? But you were an engineering student. what she got to do with this but you were an engineering student yes so I studied civil engineering in South Africa and I've always really been an advocate of education you know something that I think every child has the right to and so I particularly wanted to be a part of this this project because it also focuses on transferable skills so I might have studied

civil engineering, but like you said, it's not something that I work in today. But there are so many skills that I learned while I was studying that the whole going to class, repetitive, being disciplined, always finding problems, equation, math, the science, being interested and inquisitive about people, cultures, countries, life.

All those skills I learned in engineering and I'm able to take those skills and transfer them into what I do today. Not only am I dancing, I also present, which means you're very inquisitive and you ask questions to people that you're talking about because you want to know information. Yeah. And I guess in a way, choreography, that's problem solving, isn't it? A hundred percent. And you know, when you have to do it to win a show, that is also problem solving. Like how do I win this show? What are the steps that I need to take in order for me to actually create an impact? So yeah, all of those skills. And I think also being able to remain calm under pressure is something that I learned engineering and being able to do that at a really high level as well.

So what was your journey from being a student of civil engineering to being a dance queen? Oh, thank you. Well, I started dancing when I was four. So dancing has always been a part of me and my family's life. when I was four so dancing has always been a part of me and my family's life um but as well as education because this is something that my parents had to fight to have in South Africa and my dad is a great advocate of studying of young girls being educated and so after high school I was always good at maths and science and sports. I wanted to go and dance. And my parents were like, you need something to fall back on.

So we think engineering might be a clever thing to do. And then I applied and, well, my sister applied for me and I got in. So the engineering came way after the dancing. It was only when I had to start working where I was like, this was not really for me. I loved study, but working really isn't for me. And dancing has always been a part of my life. That's something that I'm going to take on full time now. And then I moved to Germany and I started dancing and training internationally. And so when was the moment, because this is so fascinating from a parent's point of view, and your parents are absolutely bang on the money,

aren't they? They want, you know, we all want our children to parent's point of view. And your parents are absolutely bang on the money, aren't they? They want, you know, we all want our children to have a kind of security. But when was the moment when you think they were happy with you to dance your way into your future and stop worrying about you, you know, not being a civil engineer? I mean, to be honest, parents never stop worrying. Do they still worry about you now yeah they're still very very even now uh but I think when they were like okay we can see that this dancing thing was a thing it was probably my second year on Strictly this would have been probably five years after I left home so for five years they were worried But the moment I went on Strictly and I started dancing with Danny Mac

and doing really well, they were like, okay, this is her choice. I think this is what she's going to focus on. Is it possible for your family to fully appreciate the place of Strictly at the heart of British national life? Because that show isn't just a television program, is it? No, it's not. But my parents live in South Africa, so they don't have the scope of what the show is.

But for them, I think they're just proud that not just one of their daughters is on it, but all three, really. I have another sister who did Strictly South Africa and Mutzi obviously does the UK and and the German run so for them it's really not about how big the show was it was just that they were proud that their daughters all the way from South Africa were on this huge international stage doing what they love. Was it weird for you when your sister was judging you on Strictly? No, she wasn't judging me.

She was judging the celebs. And she's the only family that I have. And we both wanted to be just as professional. So it wasn't weird. We'd done it before already. I've got to say, I would not want my sister to judge me in any public way. so I think you probably both dealt with that brilliantly um when you are given a celebrity and when you watch the

celebrities on Dancing on Ice is it possible to know just from the way a person stands or even walks whether or not they'll ever make a dancer? No, I think we all saw that with people. When I'm talking about dancing on ice, when you think Eddie the Eagle, with someone who wouldn't really think, and he's six years old, sometimes people of a certain age come to themselves out. And I think Eddie's a great example and champion

for you can try new things at any age you know yes be careful but don't hold back you can live every day to the fullest when i see eddie for me is so inspirational because you look at him you think oh maybe he won't be able to do it and then he just comes out every sunday night and he absolutely smashes. And you get inspired and motivated again by just seeing him. So I don't think you can judge a book by its cover. Right. What about those of us who would say, hand on heart, I cannot dance. What's wrong with us?

You need to sign up to my dance school. Come on up to my dance school. I'll teach you how to dance. Now, I think for people who don't believe that they can, the first thing that you could do is just try. That's the first step.

Just try. Believe in yourself. Take a little bit of a risk and try. Well, and I probably could dance on my own in a room. It's just when there's anybody else in the room

that I wouldn't be able to dance. Is that the problem? Is it just a stiff kind of British way of behaving? Do you think that might be holding people back? No, dance Latin and especially Borrowed is a very British art form. We have the waltz, which is the English waltz, which was created by British English people, I would say English people people so dancing has always been a way of life I think through many many countries especially in England and people have been dancing way back when we go back to the Victorian times I think it's just people being self-aware and a little bit shy but once you get

into it and once you're confident in what you're doing dancing with another person is not something that holds you back it's something that helps relate the expression or whatever you want to say and you're telling stories you're constantly telling stories between two people you've got to really believe in your body haven't you as a dancer and i wonder how you felt when you were pregnant and now you've had your daughter because for an awful lot of women that change that we go through with our bodies is quite something isn't it but we don't have to rely on our bodies for work whereas you do yeah and you know I've learned a lot about my body and like you say as a dancer your body is very important but since becoming a mom I've

learned that my your body's ever-changing but your body is the most incredible instrument that was ever created because of what it does I think in the beginning I was really focused on what it looked like and comments on my looks and my body were body were important or at the forefront when you saw me. But now it's really something that doesn't affect me anymore. I think I'm very much in a more confident, more happier place because I had my little daughter. And I know how incredible the human body is and what my body does and its function. And it's something that I'm proud of. And I think all women should really be proud of

and the things that we could do. Oti, this week, we did get the very sad news of the death of Robin Windsor. And actually, when you talk about dancing and joy, he was so accomplished and so at ease with himself on the dance floor. I used to love watching him. Yeah, Robin was one of a kind.

He was such an incredible human being. I used to love watching him. Yeah, Robin was one of a kind. He was such an incredible human being. And I think there's not one person who knows Robin. And if you talk to them, will have a bad word to say because he just touched everyone. He literally lit up the room when he walked in. And he was such a beautiful soul. And with me, especially, because he was a part of my dance school as well.

And he supported me so many times in so many of my events that it was a shock and it was a real tragic loss. But he will be remembered for his big smile, for how he made people feel. And I think he will be celebrated because of that. he made people feel and I think he will be celebrated because of that he he was so positive and so beautiful and so talented and those are the things that I think people will remember about him yeah well I very much hope so and you are someone who again as soon as you set foot on a dance floor you you radiate happiness and good cheer yeah Is there a power snack that you'd recommend? Did you eat nuts, fresh fruit, anything the rest of us could try? Just eat what makes you feel happy and what you feel is good for your body.

Okay. Right. I'm going to order a big cream puff straight away. I was going to say, don't let her do that, Oti. I just want to be happy. You all right? Oti Mabuse. And actually, I thought what she had to say about T levels and engineering was fantastic I'm not buying that

so the reason why Jane's laughing is because actually we did the intro before we'd done the interview so I don't know whether OT's been interesting about engineering but I'm going to put some money on it well if she was very interesting about engineering, I really will credit... You are now going to be the proud owner

of the crystal ball formerly owned by me. I don't want it. No, you can have it. No, I don't want it, because it just predicts the bloody apocalypse all the time, and I'm quite a hopeful person. No. I don't want the apocalypse.

It's currently predicting that England men will lose in the quarterfinals of the approaching Euros. Oh, I don't want that either. Oh, take it. I think they could go all the way, Jane. Rubbish. I think Scotland might win. You did it. Elite listener status for you for getting through another half hour or so

of our whimsical ramblings. Otherwise known as the hugely successful podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. We missed the modesty class. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler, the podcast executive producer. It's a man. It's Henry Tribe.

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