Off Air... with Jane and Fi - An orgy in suburbia

Episode Date: May 11, 2023

Following an afternoon of slightly challenging radio performance, Jane and Fi bring you an all email special. There's plenty to discuss - like what excuse would you use to get out of an embarrassing situation? What happened when Jane almost interviewed Hilary Clinton? And why does Fi keep asking that poor man what CDs he's buying? If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Assistant Producers: Kate Lee Times Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Right, sorry, are you waiting for us to actually start? Oh, Kate, I'm so sorry. Right, here we go. I feel that we should have some kind of a theme tune for this special edition because it's emails only, there will be no guests. And some of that is by design and some of it is not. Be honest. Because Sam Ryder was going to be our big guest and that would have made this a normal edition of the podcast.

But we had technical difficulties at our end. Sam was really super cool about it, but he had to go and do some kind of quite important rehearsal ahead of the Eurovision semifinals tonight. So he was actually in transit in a car and then walking down a corridor. And it just wasn't going to work, Jane. So we all had to say our goodbyes and leave, like the fake shake used to say. No, he used to say, I made my excuses and left, didn't he?

No, that wasn't the fake shake. That was the News of the World shake. No, the I made my excuses and left used to be more like the Sunday People, where they'd gone to an orgy in suburbia, and it was the point at which the local vicar was... No, but the fake shake used it too in the News of the World. Oh, did it? OK. But I thought it was just like a standard line trotted out by any undercover reporter.

No, I think it became a bit of an actual meme. And also, what excuse do you make? Excuse me, I'm a fake shape. I hadn't realised this was an orgy. I thought I was attending a Horticultural Society meeting. But everyone seems to have taken their clothes off and some people are rogering each other senseless. This isn't the right venue.

You've missed out a description. Some well-known people. Oh, yes, OK. I guess that's what it was about, wasn't it? Anyway, look, we've already got a little bit waylaid uh so sam couldn't make it uh we'll catch up with him another time so we thought we would just bring our email special forward that'll be a podcast no one will listen to where we just talk about the people that we haven't interviewed due to technical difficulties i think it's niche but but it could work. Golden hours of entertainment.

What is the best no-show you've ever had? Best no-show? Oh, well, it was the morning. Oh, you know this story about the morning I was meant to be interviewing Hillary Clinton. Oh, no, but she was a show in the end. Well, she was a show, but she didn't turn up for the live show. And in the end, it was on Woman's Hour, and I had to go to a tape, as we used to say back in the day,

of Jenny Murray talking to Jessie Ware. So it wasn't even me doing a recording. It wasn't me! Well, you got to Hilary in the end, so that's the kind of almost show. But it is a great story. Well, it's a good story and if you haven't heard it What, the interview with Jenny and Jesse Ware? I think it was Jesse Ware

Yes, it was Jesse Ware The punchline of that what you might loosely call anecdote is that to get over the embarrassment of Hillary Clinton not turning up because she'd fallen down the stairs and was having a surgical boot fitted was that I went to the Woman of the Year lunch and got plastered and then got a phone call to say oh the interview's back on get back to work so I came back had a black coffee a large

bottle of sparkling water and burped my way over to the location where I was going to interview Hillary Clinton then I did a very run-of-the-mill interview with her. Anyway. Lucky her. Yes, she was thrilled. She still talks a bit. Anyway, this is an email, all email special. Yes, it is. Hang on. What was your best no-show?

I was just trying to think. Well, I was trying to regale you in the studio this afternoon because it was an afternoon of slightly challenging radio performance, wasn't it? because so many things went wrong and lines went down all that kind of stuff joanna public won't have noticed a thing no and that's the thing well because we're so good i've done this terrible um outside broadcast back in the days of five live which was a three-hour show in the afternoons and we were doing it from the Central Square in Glasgow, and the production team, and this is through... I'm not blaming them at all, because it was just funny in the end.

They'd forgotten the chairs, so we had to stand up for three hours. They'd forgotten a clock, so the person, one of our PAs, had to do the kind of, you know, a little bit like waving in a plane, all those signals, so I could talk right up to the hour yes because you had to hit the news you had to get your junctions didn't you yeah and i can't even remember who the main guest was meant to be but whoever it was they didn't show up but very handily tom fenner one of the production staff uh he had once been in a band with lawrence donnegan who had once been in a band with lloyd cole so tom phoned

up lawrence and said i think they were going out for a drink later on that evening and just said you fancy popping down so he came along to say hello and then we just made him stand there for half an hour being interviewed and he did have other strings to his books he'd written some fantastic books uh no news from throat lake i think is one of the best books about local newspapers that I've ever read. So we talked to him. Where is that set? Because that sounds good. Well, I think that's set on the west coast of Ireland, but other people may be able to tell me if my memory hasn't served me correct. But the worst thing, Jane, was there was a poor counsellor who had been booked to come on the show, who came on the show, and because we just needed to play it for time, he had a bag of

CDs with him from HMV. So I ended up trying to spin the interview out by asking him all about his musical tastes and his cds and he said well actually i'm going back to hmv to take them back because i don't like them we were so desperate for a guest we said well would you come back on the way back from hmv and tell us what you've bought instead and he said yes and we did it as an item oh my goodness i mean you've been responsible for some award-winning content over the years oh and that and that yeah anyway they were fun times oh and we're still having fun times sometimes it's actually outrageous that we still have a laugh at work yeah it's nice It shouldn't really be allowed Now, shall we just get stop press late oboe news out the way

because I know it annoys you So this is from So this is from someone who wants to remain anonymous But it's called I'll give you a beep Apologies for the late oboe news entry Years ago my mother-in-law kindly gifted me a handy book called The! Apologies for the late Oboe News entry. Years ago, my mother-in-law kindly gifted me a handy book called The Right Instrument

for Your Child by Atara Bentovim, in which each instrument is considered in terms of suitability for your child, depending on their physique, mentality and personality, plus lots of other useful information. How very sensible. Sadly, I no longer

have the book, otherwise I'd send it to you. We would willingly receive that. Well, it's funny. Have you got it? No, but I, Tara, who was a force of nature, is somebody that I went to see live. Her name, I think, was Tara Bentovim. I could be wrong. Yeah, I just said it.

Oh, you've just said it. Yes. My memory is excellent. And she used to do a show called Tara's Band. I am listening i went to see her at the philharmonic hall in liverpool in liverpool you say yes i think she might even have been a scouser might be a scouser forgive me well it's all coming home now isn't it uh our anonymous correspondent says i finally had cause to use the book when my daughter, then about age 12, came home from school one day declaring that she wanted to learn the oboe. Anyway, the only line from the book that stuck with me is the conclusion of the oboe section, which is something like, nobody chooses the oboe, the oboe chooses you.

you and there's something of a truth in that anonymous correspondent because I don't think anybody especially when you're 10 11 12 years old listens to a really really really instrument playing very very sad tunes and thinks yep that's absolutely where I'm at because um my impression of the oboe is is actually quite difficult it is practically difficult to play because you have to blow in a very particular way don't you yes you do so how how do you have well so oh god okay so it's a double reed instrument so you have to fold your lips over your teeth and actually you don't blow at all you have to it's a bit like the bagpipes you have to inhale and you really do push air up from your diaphragm so if you have another wind instrument like the clarinet single reed so you've just got one piece of wood moving against a great big solid structure, you give it some welly.

And the same with the flute, it's like a whistle, but the oboe, you actually have to have a very, very forceful jet of air, but by no means hugely blowy. Otherwise it just sounds like a dying bagpipe actually. So would that mean that Scottish people have a particular affinity with the oboe? Because, of course, you have Scottish... No, I don't. No, I don't think so. I don't think so. They're doing some kind of weird double breathing, aren't they?

Which I never managed to master at all. I don't really know anything about the bagpipes, actually, Jane. Sorry. Oh. No. We've finally arrived at a topic about which you know absolutely nothing. Oh, no, don't say that. Because I'll find out and then I'll pretend that I do. This is from Kiki, who headlines this. Kiki is somebody that we've met.

In fact, have we met her or has she just been in our presence at one of the live shows? She was certainly at the Royal Festival Hall, wasn't she? Yeah, I don't think we did meet her in person. Well, I think I said hello to her afterwards, but you were very busy having your make-up taken off and your feet massaged and all the things that were in your rider. Yeah. Don't give all that stuff away, please. Off the back of your discussions around feminism

and patriarchal systems with Joanne Harris, she writes, I realised I had some thoughts I'd been wanting to express for a while. Jane's comment about herself being a crop-haired, head-bashing feminist, that was what the Daily Mail called me, but never mind, made me giggle, as that's a term I've also adopted for myself in order to stop other people applying it to me. As you already know, I'm still at school, a place where everybody seems to get a label or a category they fit into, and I found myself almost from the moment I set foot into the school being known as the argumentative feminist. I've been known to engage in many a debate at school surrounding women's rights and feminism,

be it in a PSHE lesson or even, if I can manage it, in English literature. Feminism is my thing, and it's seen as my thing. Additionally, I'm out as a lesbian to almost everybody I know both inside and outside school so I've accidentally fulfilled the stereotype of the angry lesbian feminist at first I found it irritating but I soon realized that if I claimed this identity as a sort of ironic persona it didn't really matter if anybody truly thought that about me so I changed my Instagram bio to short-haired lesbian feminist I feel that you would both find that funny. Kiki, just own it.

That's you. You go with it. I think that's brilliant. And to have it as your Instagram bio, good on you. I think the funny thing about the short-haired thing, description from a newspaper, certain newspapers, is the slight undercurrent. Oh, that's what they mean, lesbians

that used to go with it She doesn't care about going to the hairdresser and she can't be bothered having long hair because that would need maintaining So they felt it was a code So she's a lesbian who's got cropped hair short hair cropped hair

cropped it everybody She's one of them It wasn't said enough. She's one of them. It wasn't said in a warm-hearted way. I don't think the Daily Mail's ever said anything warm about me. Has it not? I'm still waiting. Come on.

Carry on. Do you want a very serious one? Well, yes, I do, actually, because this is an environment where we can literally talk about anything so i was really really touched by this email which is about having a child who's being bullied uh so i think we're going to keep you anonymous just in case there's any potential for your son being identified as well as you. So here we go. My son is being bullied and it actually feels like he's been cancelled. He left sixth form at the end of October, his part-time job at Christmas.

He sees no one his own age outside school and he's been in his room ever since. I spend a large proportion of my time upset and angry, but also fearful for his mental health and his future. Reflecting on bullying in 2023, a large proportion of it is social bullying and isolation, mostly engineered through social media and gaming platforms like Discord. The sick form haven't had the capability to help and parents haven't wanted to think that their children have taken part

and our social life has also been turned upside down. I ranted at friends of 20 years to begin with to try to get their sons to answer texts and unblock my son and talk to him, explaining how we'd had to do an emergency CAMHS referral only to be treated as a bit of an embarrassing annoyance. It's been a truly awful experience. I find it hard to sleep, work and socialise,

and the bullying spreads much further than the person at the centre of it. It impacts the whole family. We've been lucky enough to have been able to pay for counselling for my son and for me and I work for myself so I can flex my hours and still earn a living. Some people would not be so fortunate. It has been the worst eight months of

my life. I own my own business and I've dealt with all sorts of issues for all sorts of organisations but this has left me feeling out of control and in a state of perpetual panic. I wonder if listeners have had to deal with the same or are dealing with something similar. Love you both and keep doing what you do. Well enormous enormous sincere regards back from the both of us, because I think you're right. I think lots of listeners will have an experience or maybe some wisdom to impart about that. But I think the thing that really, really struck me, Jane, is just when you look to friends for help, and it is incredibly difficult when what you're asking them to do is to change their children's behaviour to make life better for your child. Because the ask is okay between friends,

but I think, as our correspondent has found out, it can't always be that they can make their children do something that would make life better for your child, and I think that's really painful. It is also excruciating for the child to think or know that their mother or father or carer, whatever it is, has spoken to another adult about their own private hell. That must be so difficult.

And exactly, because then the whole, all of those connections become very difficult, don't they? Because if your child then finds out that somebody has started to be nice to them or kind to them or inclusive towards them because they've been asked to do so, you know, that is not sometimes a terrific feeling for that child or for the one who's been asked to help but I absolutely get where you're coming from you will ask anything of anybody in order to make the circumstances better for your child so I suppose I'd like to throw that out to our listeners who've had similar experiences with hopefully a little bit of incoming advice. Yes, I mean, I don't get too saccharine about parenthood because I think it's a very real struggle. It's an enormous responsibility. But there is no doubt that you will,

the one thing you simply cannot bear as a parent is your child's unhappiness. It is just too much to bear for most parents, I think, to know that their own child is having a tough time might dread going to school or dread going to work or just dread being out in the world it's such a horrible thing for a parent to live through and especially as our correspondent has noted there's an added thing isn't there now with all of the social media and we've talked a lot about you know the the terrible kind of space that that can create that causes distress for children so we won't rehearse

those arguments again but when your children are in trouble and there's you know that some of it is being caused by these huge businesses I think that's an extra layer of anger that actually our generation of parents are new to. Yeah, well, you're just so utterly powerless, aren't you? What can you do against the might of social media bearing down on your child's emotions? Nothing, absolutely nothing, except to say to them, you know, put an arm around them and say, well, you can talk to me about it.

But if only that was the solution. Yes, and it's not the same space and it doesn't seem to create the same dopamine hit. No, no, funny that, isn't it? Yeah. Actually, should we do this one about how much sex is enough? Yes, let's. And I'm on thin ice here because I've barely had sex.

I can't really remember much about it, but it's a thing apparently and it goes on and i do think this is a real this is another one to throw out because i think it's hugely important in uh we know sex is important in marriages and relationships but the frequency of it and how much you think other people are having it and whether you and donald or ronald or brian or shirley how much you think other people are having it, and whether you and Donald or Ronald or Brian or Shirley, how much you're having it compared to them, and who's honest and who's dishonest, who lies and who will tell you the truth. Anyway, we'll keep this anonymous.

But this woman asks, it is a woman, am I being unreasonable for asking my husband to cope with having sex only once a week? Realistically, she says, that's more than I want, but I'm making the effort to make him happy. Or is he being unreasonable or just has more testosterone than necessary? He's also my age, which is 55. He can't get past assuming it must be his performance that's stopping me from being more enthusiastic. Now, this is a woman who is on HRT. The last few years of my menopause or perimenopause have been very difficult, as they are for many women,

and I'm realising, I hope not too late, men as well. My issue is that so many men just don't want to talk to their wives about female issues, so they muddle along in this case apparently feeling more and more ignored okay um now look neither of us would ever claim to be experts on anything but i do think that correspondent is touching on a very important issue and what would your advice be well my advice would be once a week is ample i think and i think ample is an excellent word you see i think i mean genuinely i can say i think once a week is actually rather good if you're 55 you know hey that's four times a month and getting on for nearly 50 times a year i mean good lord you both sound like nymphomaniacs to me um but do you get my point about the fact that no one's ever what you're never sure who's

being honest and who isn't in this department? Department, OK, I love the way that sometimes it's very obvious which words are in inverted commas. Department, downstairs, in the bedroom. All of that. Well, yes, I agree with all of that, but it just depends where it is on the scale, doesn't it? I mean, if you used to have sex every night,

where it is on the scale doesn't it i mean if you if you used to have sex every night then that is maybe problematic if you're only having sex once a week but if you only ever had sex once a week it's absolutely fine i get the sense that they've had to change down haven't they it looks like it yes it does but i would say the thing about um one partner thinking that it must be on them, that they aren't doing the right things or as attractive as they used to be or whatever it is, I think that's really, it's the sign of a very good human being for a start to not... So her partner's worried it's him that's the problem. Yeah, I think actually that strikes me as quite a nice kind of characteristic to have.

And I think sometimes we're a little, we put sex in its own category, don't we? And maybe because we don't talk about it openly enough. But if you came home from work and said, I'm, you know, I'm just not particularly hungry, love, you know, would that person automatically assume it's because they hadn't cooked the very best chicken pie?'t they just go oh okay you know well i'll wait till you are but we put sex in this superlative kind of place where it's connected to all kinds of

other things of rejection and how we feel about ourselves and self-esteem so maybe one of the things to do is just to explain it's a much more perfunctory decision. You know what you've done now? You've got me wondering about whether my cooking's any good as well as everything else. Oh, no, we know you're very,

I think, as I said in our book, you're very capable with a chip pea. There's nothing to be ashamed of. I'm only too capable. Well, we're throwing that one out there. Let us know what you think. I also should mention, actually, that this correspondent says

that they are taking testosterone. Now, this is something we're interested in, isn't it? Very. And they say they're taking it. Testosterone gel in brackets off license for brain clarity. But I know it's prescribed for loss of libido. And I can certainly report that you don't want to use too much or you might find yourself feeling like a teenager in a mid-morning business meeting good grief correspondent what thoughts cross your mind as you're looking at a spreadsheet actually you've drifted off to libido land anyway uh i'm nervous she says to use this more than i should as i'd prefer not to become a baritone or get a moustache. Well, if you haven't got a moustache, you're doing really well at 55.

She's having sex once a week and she doesn't have a facial hair problem. I don't know why she's listening to this. The luckiest women alive! We're going to talk about testosterone and HRT on the programme next week because a couple of people have mentioned it and there are lots and lots of myths about it. So do stay tuned, correspondent. But but anyway your thoughts on anything we've discussed jane and fee at times dot radio uh yes don't if you're having loads and loads and loads don't tell us really amazing not tell us fantastic satisfying daily sex with a 35-year-old, you know.

What? 35-year-old. Stop. Reel yourself in. Maybe I've taken some testosterone by accident. Stop. Yep, then just keep your email quite short. Right.

Adult friendships and going to events alone is an email that has been sent in by a correspondent twice, actually, because when we said that we were doing an email special, I think it means a lot to you that we try and get this back into our conversation. So our correspondent had come to see one of our events at the Royal Festival Hall. We can never say that too often, Jane. Sorry, that's the second reference to it tonight. And there'll be more next week.

And I think we were talking about the joys of female friendship that evening and you asked people to raise their hand if they come along with a friend and she was on her own that night and felt a little bit lonely at that question so this is how the email goes on it can be daunting to attend events like that and go to things on one's own but sometimes it's either that or I miss out completely. I've been happily married to my wonderful husband for over 20 years. We have two teenage children and busy jobs. I do struggle to invest the time I perhaps should in my female friendships. I've got various groups of friends I meet up with occasionally but I wouldn't necessarily say I have the m40 type friends that you've mentioned before I know it's a cliche but my husband is my

best friend though I do sometimes feel a bit sad that at 48 I still haven't forged a truly strong core friendship group having looked around the room last night I wondered how many others feel the same and I was quite struck by that Jane because I think there's a lot written, isn't there, about the joy of female friendships. And I think it's a real thing now in drama, in films. There's a real currency attached to it that perhaps there wasn't in previous generations. And I felt sad for this lovely woman

that actually she felt that she didn't have something in her life when she's got a husband she absolutely loves on a friendship level as well as the maybe more than once a week sex level but we don't know there's no reference to that made in that email we don't know you just inserted that i have and wouldn't it be a dreadful thing if that kind of camaraderie of women made anybody feel excluded or slightly like they hadn't achieved that too. I think sometimes

there's something a bit show-offy about female friendship groups. Yes, it can all be a bit performative, can't it? Yeah. And look, it's not for everybody. Just that there are loads of men around who don't want to go to the pub with loads of other men. I'm sure there are... But I think we excuse them much more than we excuse a woman

who doesn't have lots of female friends. I think we look at a woman with lots of female friends and we either say, oh, she's a man's woman, which just seems to be a terrible thing to land on somebody now, or we think there's something a little bit... Oh, it's people who don't have female friends. Yeah, nasty about them that they haven't managed to make lots of female friends.

Well, they... I mean, genuinely, she sounds like she's got a great relationship with her husband. Maybe she doesn't quote, need. Yep. But she's been made to feel rather bad about that. Oh, don't. Goodness me. And I felt bad about making her feel bad. Oh, so you're to blame. No, I'm not. Not for everything, but many things. Just as a

quick admin one, Heidi. Heidi is listening in Bermuda. Wow. And she just wants a quick reminder of a book that I mentioned about the Second World War from the German perspective. It's such a good book that, Heidi. It's called Aftermath. It's very serious and it's somewhat troubling, but it's called Aftermath it's very serious and it's somewhat troubling but it's just a brilliant brilliant social history really of what Germany was like in the years after the Second World War and I learned a great deal from it I'm afraid I can't remember the author's name but it's called Aftermath you should be able to track it down a really good book. Do you want to do the one about estrangement? While Jane is finding the one about estrangement, I'm just going to read a funny one from Katie Edwards about bilingualism. I've listened to podcasts for years, but never sent an email. Now look, don't be shy. Jane and Fee at

times.radio. I was listening to the episode about the French translations and can you ever really know someone or be yourself in another language? Well, I've lived in France for 10 years. I'm a secondary school teacher. I speak fluent French. I have some wonderful French friends with whom I have very many meaningful conversations. But no matter how well I can convey myself in French,

I still feel like I'm not 100% me. There's nothing I like more than having a natter with a fellow Brit living in the area because it just requires no effort. Absolutely have the exact word or feeling that I want to convey. I often feel I'm one Katie in French and another one in English. And my voice is different in French. That's interesting. Yep.

My voice is higher pitch compared to in English. Anyway, my minor observation. Thank you for being awesome. Well, thank you for listening. That's quite funny, isn't it? Slightly higher en français. Well, during the programme today, I changed the pronunciation of my own name.

You gave yourself a little bit of a lift. And I think actually it does sound significantly posher so I might stick with Garbet. I think that the email about estrangement from a child, so this is an email that I definitely, I mean I'm not sure we can do justice to the whole story, but the correspondent believes that this is one of the taboos that we still don't really talk about. is one of the taboos that we still don't really talk about. So it's basically about a child from whom our correspondent is estranged. Which bits of it do you want to pick out for you?

Well, I think the key bits that the correspondent wanted to tell us about were that he was just quite a quiet teenager within the family, and there were four of them. So he went a bit quiet at 15 years old and she was a little bit worried but she always heard him having a very good time with his friends so she put the worry on hold she then says he met a new girlfriend when he was 19 whilst endearing on some level she seemed to bring chaos and upset my son and i had one quite big for us row when i told him she could stay for a week, but not for longer. Last year, my partner, his dad nearly died in a road bike accident three years ago.

He's left with a head injury and is medically retired. And our correspondent had long covid, was going through the menopause and was an NHS worker. So quite a lot on her plate. And she goes on to say, as quite an outwardly chilled and permissive mum I think it shocked my son that I wasn't more hospitable to someone so important to him and she thinks that maybe that was the catalyst for what has now turned into a very full-on estrangement where they haven't spoken for over a year. Gosh let a year is a long time not to speak to a child who's still quite young.

On the other hand, that woman has got a lot on her plate. She's got a lot to deal with. And she's working in the NHS, working throughout COVID. Do you think it is still a taboo? I think it's a massive taboo. And also I think the problem with estrangement is you just don't know when it's going to end. You know, I would imagine, you know, that if that happens to you,

you very much hope that you've had a bit of a row with one of your kids and they've just gone off into their own world for a week and then maybe they'll call or a month and then maybe they'll pop by. And how do you know the depth of what's happened when, you know, family is, we think of family and we hope that family is such a constant. We don't imagine that you're going to separate from somebody and really not hear from them ever again. I think it's a huge taboo.

I think it's very hard to talk about. It'd be very hard to explain to people what's happened. She does go on to say, I reflect with regrets on how I might have mothered differently. Well, don't we all? Because it's, I meant what I said earlier. No one

really tells you how hard this is going to be and just how easy it will be to make mistakes, however well-intentioned we all are at the very beginning. And sometimes individuals, whether they're your child or not, are difficult to get on with for one reason or another. And actually, just because they are your child, it doesn't mean necessarily you will always have an easy connection.

It can be very difficult sometimes to reach those closest to you, including your own children. I was really sad to see the sign off, though, where she says that she's deeply embarrassed. Yeah. And I suppose that that's that's just a very, very honest thing to tell us, isn't it? That there's a shame attached to admitting that something has gone very badly wrong. And I think it's, I mean, it's just that if you're a nice parent, you do blame yourself for things, don't you? I think it's the maybe not so great parents

who just wouldn't let something like that bother them at all. That wouldn't be a very nice mum. No, I mean, she does say, I saw myself as a fairly good enough mum. Well, isn't that theory, it's more than a theory, the good enough parent, the parent who is solid and consistent and reliable and affectionate, but not particularly sparky or exciting? Because in truth, your children don't really want you to be sparky or exciting. They'd just rather you were there doing the do and not drawing attention

to yourself um so i imagine to our listener that you've almost certainly done nothing quotes wrong it's just that he's having a bad time himself and that you are he might consider you a factor in how awful he's feeling for whatever reason because you're his mum and ultimately I'm afraid that means you're sort of an oily rag in his life and I'm still a daughter and I'm a mother yes and I'm not perfect in either of those situations to be honest I know I'm not um it's life itself can be full of challenges can't it oh very much so and you know? If you can bear to get back in touch, our correspondent, and I'd be really interested to know

just how often you try and keep in touch with him and try and let him know that you're still there and what you say to that. And also, he does have a responsibility too to understand our correspondent's issues, which are that the husband who's had the accident and has a head injury. Well, very full plate. She's got a lot to handle and maybe he needs to reach out to check up on her.

He is an adult. And I would also say that, you know, that certainty of first love where you cannot ever imagine that there is any kind of a flaw or a fault in the person that you've chosen to be with. It's an incredibly powerful thing, isn't it? That I think quite often feels like it's eclipsing all of the other potent relationships that you've had in your life. So if he met somebody and had that enormous feeling of love and it's kind of about leaving the family, joining something else. That may change. Yes, it may change. Yes, you're cynical, but I suspect correct there.

But also the new partner will be putting the son very much at the centre of his or her life. Is it a female partner or a male? Anyway, whereas mum has got so much other stuff to deal with that she probably can't prioritise him to the extent he'd like. Anyway, difficult, but I'm sure support will come in for you, so thank you for that heartfelt and very, very

honest email. It's janeandfee at times.radio. Can we end with some decorative plates? Oh, can we? Samantha, hello. Hello, Samantha. Samantha is surprised at our horror of the decorative plate.

This came up in a conversation we had with the lovely Alex Jones, not that one, the one from the one show. Samantha says, I have purchased or rescued four such plates in recent times, and I regularly give the family lunch on them, giggling

to myself the whole time as they truly are a sight to behold lovingly saved from charity shops I like to think I'm doing some justice to these pre-loved plates that were at one time proudly displayed displayed in somebody's home only to end up in bargain corner of some rather unpleasant smelling second-hand shop yep they do have quite a distinctive whiff, don't they? My husband is truly baffled by me on these occasions, this being a good example. But on the other hand, he's perfectly happy to eat his lunch off one of these truly fabulous plates.

And the kids join in with fighting over who gets the ugliest plate. So what's not to love? And they truly are revolting. Samantha has sent us some images of cat-based decorative plates but Fee, she's looking out for a greyhound plate for you. So you can eat your tea off a Nancy. Well, that's very kind and obviously I'd pay very good money for any that you do find.

But the thing that disturbed us, Jane, about Alex Jones's decorative badger plate was the fact that she wasn't going to serve anything on it. She was simply going to keep it as a plate with a badger on that she could look at and we couldn't understand that. People people? I really am going completely berserk. People listening outside the United

Kingdom might not understand the irony of eating a dinner of a really horrible plate. It's a fairly British thing to want to do but I hope there isn't any of them. It's a fairly British thing to want to do. But I hope there isn't any of them. There's no Dora lookalikes here on these cat plates. But I'm going to actually make it my mission to seek one out.

OK. I haunt a charity shop at the weekend. I'm no stranger to them. And I do know exactly what you mean about the pong. Jo Malone, I don't think we're bringing out charity shop anytime soon. Fun times ahead kids I may not have a lot of sex but listen

her crockery is absolutely spot on I can put that on my gravestone what will they say no we really won't go there but we will say goodbye. And thank you very much indeed for listening to this edition, this email-only edition of Off Air.

And if you like this version of Off Air, let us know. And we'll never do another one because we're filled with spite. It's jaylenfee at times.radio. Have an excellent couple of days. Goodbye. You did it. Elite listener status for you for getting through another half hour or so of our whimsical ramblings.

Otherwise known as the hugely successful podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. We missed the modesty class. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler, the podcast executive producer. It's a man. It's Henry Tribe. Yeah, he's an executive. Now, if you want even more, and let's face it, who wouldn't, then stick Times Radio on at three o'clock Monday until Thursday every week and you can hear our take on the big news stories of the day

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