Off Air... with Jane and Fi - And how many 'Confessions' films have you seen? (with David Baddiel)

Episode Date: July 3, 2024

Jane and Fi are back in full swing with more of your window cleaner tales, all very suitable for the airwaves...just. Plus, net curtain chat! Yes, it is still 2024 last time we checked.They're also joined by David Baddiel who discusses his new book 'My Family' Our next book club pick has been announced! 'Missing, Presumed' is by Susie Steiner. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfi.Podcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What is the link between nicotine romance and creative juices? I don't know. Is this a riddle? I don't know. I just wondered. What's the punchline? VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open.

Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Can we just be transparent about that? But isn't it weird, though, because some of the biggest podcasts are about eating. Table Manners and what's the lovely Andy Oliver one? Stirring, stir it up, stirring it up. Yeah. So that's weird.

So there's a lot of claggy mouth action. Maybe they should have a separate category on all of the platforms claggy mouths claggy mouths yeah can we just be we again being transparent again we've just come from a meeting at um just a very very modern workplace haven't we super modern uh it's at a we were we were at a platform don weren't we? Yeah, and not a train platform. No. No. And they were in offices that, I mean, this is fun.

This is the difference between our experiences in our 20s of working and the youngsters' working environment. If I'd walked into that building and that office space in my 20s, I genuinely would have expected to buy a sofa. Yeah. Nothing. I mean, you wouldn't have expected it to be delivered very soon but you would have but nothing would have told me that i was in an office because the whole layout has changed i think for the better i mean there wasn't a piece of soft furnishing in any of the local radio stations that I worked at. There was a smoking room at GLR that was one of the most unhealthy places in a working environment you could ever have got. Were there seats of any kind?

So there were, and they were covered in that, well, we've got a bit of this here, that kind of scratchy industrial whatever, but it had a window that was never opened and ashtrays that were never emptied but oh the romance that must have flourished there very much so my creative juices were absolutely flowing in that room what is the link between nicotine romance and creative juices i don't know is this a riddle i don't know what's the punchline as a non-smoker I don't feel I've ever benefited I mean I know there's to put it mildly a downside to smoking

very much so I would never have taken up smoking if I had to permanently go outside to smoke so I think it's an entirely good thing yeah everything that has happened in the smoking world but you know as we've previously discussed many times my addiction to nicotine will probably be a lifelong thing but i'm just on the lozenges now yeah you're looking

you're looking good on it um can we just do an apology it's me it's me this this time sometimes it's more more often than not it's me but no no i think it's it's fairly evenly biased even distributed between the pair of us uh this is from Anonymous, who does send a big hug, and we send one right back. Long-time listener here, streaming the pod from my home in Tokyo. Moving to Japan from England was pretty hard, especially with the time difference. Talking to friends and family, particularly difficult.

And you two have been like familiar friends, always available, even when everyone else is in sweet sweet slumber um oh and our correspondent saw you last year at broadway market with nancy can you read that paragraph because it made me laugh i wanted to talk to you so much but you did look rather enamored by some candles in the shape of naked torsos i really remember that stall there you do it's just really bizarre. Because when you light them, you're going to get to a stage which is a bit macabre where you've got a half kind of melted torso.

Very odd. Female or male? I think they were both. Okay. Yeah, I'm kind of with you. I don't think I'd like that very much. To be honest, I wonder whether I've moved through my scented candle phase. Blime i know i mean because for for a while i'd never say no to one and by god was i gifted some scented candles yeah uh but i always think they're a terrible fire hazard because

you might forget you've left one on and sometimes the stench just becomes overwhelming in small rooms still quite there are those ones you can get in the big hardware stores that take care of pet smells they're sort of worth having um around your kitchen area i think but on the whole i don't know what what do other people think have we done with the scented candle do you think you might move on to the votive incense sticks um oh i could do but do they offer the same but they're not a fire hazard are they they're not a fire hazard, are they, those? They're not a fire hazard. No. But also, I just think they're rubbish.

I think the first time you put them in, they're all right, but I don't understand how... I don't think they do work after a while. We haven't got to the end of the email. No, we haven't. Jane, this is the apology. I cringed when you said yesterday the French election wasn't a patch on ours.

I know you were only joking, but the reality is that the far right or far left will probably be elected in some capacity people in France would not agree and they may say that the UK elections ne sont rien en comparaison once more please for those at the back of the class who aren't concentrating ne sont rien en comparaison.

I do have an A-level, as I said yesterday. Not the greatest of my achievements. Thank you for that. And, yeah, of course, I didn't mean... Yeah, you're absolutely right. It was a throwaway comment saying, you know, in a rather parochial way, that obviously those of us in Britain think our elections are more significant. Well, we just think everything we do is more significant, and we're wrong.

And absolutely that as well on both counts. So apologies if I annoyed anybody, because I do appreciate that there are some really serious things going on in France. And we might end up in this country, let's be honest, the chances are, with a left leaning administration for the first time in 14 years. And we might be slightly lonely in Europe in that respect. I'm not saying whether that's a good or a bad thing. I'm just saying that in many ways, we're a bit of an outlier. We look like we're going to be. Yes, we do appear to be.

And it is interesting, isn't it? And I don't know whether we'll be able to keep... If I say something about the kind of long view of political shades... Darling, do. I'm just looking at Rosie. He's just thinking, what is she going on about? Sorry, can you get back to your phone? No, it's not that.

I've got a bit of breaking news that I think you'll like to hear. Oh, go on. Is Princess Anne all right? She's all right. Oh, that is good. Sir Andy Murray and Emma Raducanu are going to play mixed doubles together at Wimbles. That's our kind of news, isn't it?

That is box office. Yeah. That really is. Good for them. Yeah. I'm a big fan. What I'm very interested in with Murray and his partnerships is that, you know, he said that he can't play singles anymore

because he's had this cyst removed from his spine and the surgery was really recent. So obviously he goes into a doubles partnership so heavily reliant, doesn't he, on his doubles partner to back him up in the shots that he won't be able to reach for, won't be able to get. And I'd just love to hear more about that. I'd love to be in the room when they have that conversation,

when they say, literally, this is my weakness, that's got to be your strength. Because he is vulnerable and his opponents will absolutely head to the shot that he can't get all the time. I think they should, anybody playing, Raducanu and Murray

doubles at Wimbledon, should just let them win. Yeah, absolutely. Come on. Do you think they should just start off with some underarm serves? Yeah, it's just not fair. This is meant, let them win. OK. Please. We invented tennis.

We invented football. And the other teams just don't let us win. And it's got to stop, V. OK. Well, I mean, when you put it like that, I'm terrified. We did invent tennis, didn't we? I've got no idea. Well, I mean, when you put it like that, I'm terrified. We did invent tennis, didn't we? I've got no idea.

Oh, we must have done. I don't know. Le tennis? Maybe it's French. It was invented by Ted Tennis, who was a resident of Wimbledon. Everybody knows that. Here comes Lisa to save us. Just returned from a dog walk chuckling way listening to your podcast. I thought I would share my window cleaner episode, which is one of my children's favourite most embarrassing mum stories.

Could we have some of those, the most embarrassing mum stories? Because they're always terrific. I could list mine in alphabetical order. They go on for a very, very long time, including getting changed completely and utterly changed uh in the back of a video of my children singing a nursery rhyme that was then sent to the grandparents what in the background taking your gear off everything i know you're small but somebody must have spotted you. No, they didn't. Anyway.

Oh, dear. Oh, Lord. I'm very partial to a wee afternoon nap. This is Lisa. And one very hot sunny July many years ago, I lay prostate spread-eagled on my futon-style bed in a greyish bra and mum-style knickers. You rock, Lisa.

Just beginning to drift off nicely when i heard a clunk clunk noise thinking it was the birds i ignored the sound until i heard a little non-bird like cough opening one eye to my horror i saw the set of ladders on my window and my window cleaner's head just beginning to appear i jerked my body into a human column shape and rolled very slowly like a giant sausage away from the window until I plopped off the bed onto the floor. As I lay there snorkelling quietly, I looked up and realised that I lay directly in front of window set number two. Leopard crawling out of the bedroom into the hall, I was thinking I might have to rethink nap time and perhaps either draw the curtains or get better knickers.

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On the subject of greying underwear, I've just invested in those little sachets that claim to make everything white stay whiter longer. Good luck with that. Oh, have you tried? Never worked for me. Never worked. Oh, Fee, I was actually actively looking forward to putting on a whitewash tonight. Yeah luck with that. Oh, have you tried? Never worked for me. Never worked. Oh. Oh, Fee, I was actually actively looking forward to putting on a whitewash tonight.

Yeah, me too. No, when I first tried them I thought, oh, this is magic. Because they're the same ones that they used to have wafting neck curtains on the front, didn't they? That's right, yes. And I thought, oh, my nets will be lovely and fresh. And they never have been, Jane. Never have been.

Right, I'm sorry to hear that. Do any of your friends have net curtains? I definitely used to have them, which is, when was that? Yeah, in my last house I had net curtains. And in London they get grey so quickly. I mean, it's just extraordinary. The impact of traffic pollution and presumably planes as well in London on net curtains, which are obviously protected by

the glass what is that and how does that happen what's the matter with you no but how does that happen so quickly well because the air does come in through the windows unless you've got very fierce double glazing i know but it just doesn't it just show you that the impact of living in the 21st century rosie's having some sort of... But also your house, inside your house, it might be filthy, absolutely filthy. It's not. How do you know? Well, I suppose I don't, but I've...

People seem to come and stay all the bloody time, so they must find it acceptable. I'm not sure that net curtains will ever come back into fashion. I think they've gone. They probably have. Probably have. Marie has got a window... She says her window cleaner is... He's lovely.

I don't think we can name him, but he's a bit like, Marie says, a benign version of Robin Asquith from Confessions of a Window Cleaner. Now, that's always the Confessions film that people name, isn't it? You're looking... I'm not sure I've ever had a conversation

where somebody has reached for that, but yes. In my adolescence, the Confessions films were the only sort of porn film. They were soft porn films, weren't they? Yeah, you see, this is where our five-year age gap just shows a bit. I've never seen one. I've genuinely never seen one. Do you know who Robin Asquith is? Well, I think I do.

I'm thinking he's got a bit of a kind of, well, a early 1980s mullety, fringed haircut, and he's Fana Fana. Sort of dirty blonde hair. And I genuinely do not know. So if anybody listening has seen one of those Confessions films, what were they like? And I gather that Robin Asquith played, as he describes there, the cheeky chappy sex mad who happened to be a window cleaner.

He was good enough himself. But Marie's window cleaner is friendly, kind and chatty. And he offers a range of services. He's happy to sweep out the porch or indeed clean the gutters he wears this is so obvious this isn't it we're not he was leaving you too yeah he wears impressive multi-pocketed trousers to accommodate his selection of chamois leathers and he always asks about the cat.

One of them, oh, we've got cats. One of our cats is of a nervous disposition and he did shoot up the chimney the first time that Lee came around. It does get worse. He comes early, oh my God, at about 7.15 in the morning. Right, OK, all right, Marie, I think you knew what you were doing there. No, get to the end of it because this is priceless. It's not unusual to be jolted awake by him slamming his aluminium

ladder by him slamming his aluminium ladder against the windowsill and within seconds his curly mop, I'm talking about his hairstyle, is silhouetted against the blinds. This is exactly the time we're getting up, so we have to dodge

from one room to another, getting dressed as his legs disappear past the window on the way to the ladder. And we want to avoid them again on the way down. If you time it right, you can have a quick bath, modesty intact, just as he comes round to tackle the back of the house. Okay, enough!

He charges £22 for a three-storey townhouse. Bargain. Blimey, you're telling me, Marie, I'm going to have a word with my window cleaner. That is a bargain. £22? Well, that goes on the same pile as £500 to redo a whole bathroom.

We need the names of these people. Well, I've got the name, but I didn't feel it was fair to give this particular window cleaner the advantage of our thousands of listeners. But then, mind you, he deserves it. He does. With his range of services. Was it Marie who had sent him?

Yes, it was Marie. You were banned from that one. No, Marie, if you just wrote that in all innocence, it was the most perfect example of how the British can make an innuendo out of anything, because that was fantastic. Right, this one comes in from Sarah Cocker. It might be Sarah Cocker. I just can't tell because you've got no H on the end. And it is fantastic. It's in bullet points. There are seven bullet points that Sarah Sarah has got in touch with us about. They're all relevant to many of our conversations that we've had before. She sent us a picture because we were talking, weren't we,

about how to keep things hot in a bathroom yesterday. Honestly, we're both quite, I mean, we're quite intellectual in parts of our life. And then it just ascends so quickly. It just goes. So quickly. Anyway, this picture popped up on Sarah's Facebook page. Going back a while while you talked about dandruff, I think this was the reason that so many more people suffered with flaky scalps.

We certainly couldn't wash the soap out easily with this contraption. We had one of these, Sarah. So it is something that you put over both of the taps individual rubber hose a rubber hose that then joins in the middle it's basically a plastic mixer tap type thing hose type thing and you're absolutely right because if one of the water pressures was different particularly on the cold tap which it usually is then the hose bit would fling itself off and you would just have scalding water coming at you another couple of things that sarah wanted to talk to us about when i arrived in

germany 40 years ago one of the big differences was that women had underarm hair now if i go to the sauna everybody is completely hairless everywhere there are no swimming costumes allowed in saunas here which i'm used to and enjoy sweating into my towel on the wood. And she agrees with us that there is sometimes something quite disturbing about having a completely and utterly hairless adult body. But it's interesting to note that that's happened in Germany too, because I remember there to have been a stereotype

about German women. Yeah. It was probably quite unfair, but based on some truth, that they didn't bother shaving their armpits at all. It was because of Nena, wasn't it? Nena. 99 red balloons. 99 red balloons go by, yeah.

Yes. Do you remember, she lifted her arms up on top of the tops. And the whole nation were coiled. Quite ridiculous. Coiled in horror. Yeah, there are many things I'm faintly ashamed of, and actually that's one of them. That's lingered with me.

Have you seen the PS about her son? Yes. Can you read that, please? My son took part in an episode of Naked Attraction. Now that is a weird one, watching your offspring naked on telly. Right. Yes, I can well imagine. Anonymous says, Jaden Fee, engineers use protractors.

I know this because my daughter is in the final year of an aeronautical engine engineering degree and she carries one around all the time i didn't know that and um i'm just i don't know why perhaps i'm being sexist here i'm always really delighted to hear about daughters doing engineering degrees fair play to her and i hope she's enjoying it and i hope she has a really interesting career on the strength of that degree. Because I bet that's hard work. I agree. Final one from me and then we go to our guest

who is... David Baddiel today. It is David Baddiel today. Is it fair to describe... I like him. I think he's a very clever man. He makes me think I don't always agree with him. But I enjoy hearing him and I enjoy talking to him and i think you've read this book haven't you i have i'm going to grab the book as soon as you've done

the interview because i really want to read it too so it is my family a memoir and he's done a stage show about his family which i think has won a lot of awards i've seen that you've seen that yeah i've seen his stage show about his which is largely about his mum's affair with a collector of golf memorabilia so there's a lot of that in the memoir but it's largely about his mum's affair with a collector of golf memorabilia. So there's a lot of that in the memoir, but it's also about his father's dementia, and it's about his early stand-up career, and all kinds of things. And there is then a really lovely chapter that, as the reader, you're quite grateful to get to, because it is a very, very strange childhood that David Baddiel and his two brothers had,

all sorts of things that I think we would now regard as being wrong went on in his household. And by the time you get to this delightful chapter about cats, you need it. Oh, phew. I'm just going to say that. By the way, Matt Chorley told me the other day that he really can't stand Larry the Cat.

Well, I heard, because I listened to your episode of the podcast on the plane on the way coming home. And I just thought I'm just going to have to revise my entire opinion of Matt Chorley. Well, he's dead to us soon anyway, isn't he? But he can't come on this podcast and say that you hate cats. No, I did try to point that out. We're cat positive. Well, I mean, thank God he's going. This one comes in from Carla who says, I'm catching up so I'm a week behind, but I'm listening to the misheard anecdotes. When discussing Charles Dickens in one seminar,

I was very surprised to hear my tutor, she was studying for a master's in Victorian literature, casually referencing Dickens' affair with Alan Turner. I was even more surprised that none of the classmates seemed to raise an eyebrow, and I thought, oh, maybe he'd famously had a gay relationship, and I should know, so I stayed silent. I did, however, tell lots of friends, families and acquaintances that Dickens had an affair with the man,

and yes, isn't it strange this isn't more well-known? Anyway, fast forward a couple of weeks or months, I realised I'd misheard Ellen Turner as Alan Turner and just wonder how many people I've told confidently about this. After all, I was studying Victorian literature, so I probably seemed like a reliable source. Gosh, I mean, can I just say that's a very intellectual contribution. Someone who has, I mean, can I just say that's a very intellectual contribution. Someone who has, by mistake, informed somebody

that one of our greatest writers has had an affair with a man when, in fact, it was a lady. That's a quality cock-up, isn't it? It is a quality cock-up. I mean, there are so many things you can get wrong in life and I'm going to say that's one of the more niche ones. Well, I'll tell you what, you'll be about to hear in this interview that we've not yet done, but it is going to go out.

So put that together in your head, kids, and make sense of it. I can't really do that, but go on. David Baddiel has a case of mistaken identity at a Peter Gabriel gig that is quite funny. Just because the denouement you aren't really expecting. And because he's David Baddiel, he took it to the nth degree to get this. Really examined it. Really examined it. de Numeau, you aren't really expecting. Because he's David Baddiel,

he took it to the nth degree to get this. Really examined it. Really examined it. Wrote to Peter Gabriel to get him to back up. He will tell the rest of the story. Okay. It's quite funny. Well, how do we know that you're definitely going to get that anecdote out of him?

Well, because I'm just going to make, I'll write it on my hand. That's where I put most things that are very important. Jane was talking about the lack of olympic presence in paris says naomi well my daughter who's 11 and i went on a lovely trip in the mayhap term to en fleur now from there we went for a day trip to bayern to see the tapestry that was incredible and as we arrived we were met with a special replica tapestry in that style but of the olympics see the picture below and she's um yes there'sestry in that style of the Olympics. See the picture below.

And she's, yes, there's a great illustration there of the Olympics, but done in tapestry form. I do hugely admire that sort of craftiness. I just think that's exquisite. It must have taken hours. Fabulous. Love it. Then as we walked along, there were crowds of people and police, and 30 minutes later, we were greeted

with the actual Olympic flame being carried past us. Slightly disappointing how small it was, but nonetheless, a part of history, wonderful to be a part of, and great for my daughter and I to see. Naomi, how lovely. I hope you and your daughter enjoy the Paris Olympics. I know quite a few people who've got tickets.

I haven't got tickets. I don't know a single person who's got tickets. In West London, it's very much the thing to have got tickets for Paris. Well, that's because you're just sloshing around with cash, aren't you? I've got the T-shirt, of course, out of my day trip to Paris at the weekend. So a lot of people are saying they're rather jealous of that. And people recommending restaurants, including Naomi, who says Chez Jeannou is where you need to go for your next ladies' lunch to Paris, Jane.

There won't be one for a while, Naomi, because I'm very much in recovery. who says Chez Jeannou is where you need to go for your next ladies' lunch to Paris, Jane. There won't be one for a while, Naomi, because I'm very much in recovery, but I'll take note of that and thank you. Shall we head to the interview? Yes, although it's probably worth saying that tomorrow we are going to... It's election day in the UK and we are going to try and do a podcast tomorrow, aren't we?

We are. Although we're going to be apart. We will. But we're going to try and do a live link up via the Zoom. Jane will be in a hotel room somewhere in Yorkshire because you are covering an important count. A Yorkshire count. Yep. And I will be down in the south. I will be welcomed back into the bosom of Surrey and I'll feel very comfortable there. I'm not allowed in Surrey. No, you're not.

That's why I've been sent to Yorkshire. You're not allowed in Surrey. And we're going to have a little bit of a chat about what we're doing for the evening. So we thought we'd just try and bring you a flavour of what our real jobs are like. Yeah, because we can't talk politics tomorrow, which is a weird rule.

That's just nonsense. Yeah, but many people will be listening months after the event. But we can talk about other stuff, so that's fine. We're basically just going to talk about catering, aren't we? And window cleaners. Yep. So look forward to that. And in the meantime, here's David Baddiel.

Now, David Baddiel spurs us no detail from his life in my family, the memoir detailing his mother's long-standing affair his father's dementia and the trials and tribulations of growing up in a very strange household of emotional weirdness really but there was also golf memorabilia dinky toy collections and huge stashes of pornography all in dollis hill in london now david's love of cats makes a very welcome appearance towards the end of the book because all in all you Hill in London. Now, David's love of cats makes a very welcome appearance towards the end of the book, because all in all, you feel as the reader

that he's become something of a friend by the end of the book, one that you want to look out for, but also worry that one day he might write about you in the same finite detail. Hello, David. Hello, how are you doing? Yeah, we're doing very well, thank you. It's lovely of you to come in.

Hello, David. Yes, don't leave me out. No, you're not left well, thank you. It's lovely of you to come in. Hello, hello. Don't leave me out. No, you're not left out at all of this. Do your friends and your own family actually worry about that? Because it is a very finite detail in this book. Yeah. So the book is inspired by a stand-up show that I did called My Family, Not the Sitcom in the West End.

And my mum had just died when I decided I was going to do that. And my younger brother wrote to me, I told my younger brother, he said, you're not doing it, which turned out to be wrong. And then my older brother did a very interesting thing. My old brother, who I write about quite a lot in the book, and who sort of is my proper parent, I think, because my parents were so nuts. So this is Ivor? Ivor, yeah. Ivor came round and he said, we could talk about this for two hours. of is my proper parent i think because my parents were so nuts so this is either either yeah either came around and he said and he said we could talk about this for two hours and i could go through all the rights and wrongs but i know you you're gonna do it aren't you i said yes uh so let's

just go with it and then i said but you're gonna have to trust me i haven't written it yet but i know it will be an act of love an act of celebration even though i'm going against it's kind of counterintuitive what people do when people die, which is they say, OK, let's just say they were lovely people, let's just be, let's say, as happened when I was at my mum's funeral, she was wonderful, because people have this notion of we mustn't wash our dirty linen in public, particularly about people who've gone.

But the trouble with that is then you don't say who they were. Then you're left with a bland idealisation of who people were. And actually, one of the things about this book and the show is that I get the sense that people come away thinking, oh, I really know who these people were. And of course, your parents lived rather extraordinary lives. So tell us a little bit more about your mum. And her life had the shadow of Hitler across it, didn't she?

Yeah. And there was forever in her mind, obviously, the dream and fantasy of the life that she should have led. Well, that's how I think of it. It's not quite as on the surface as that with my mum. She was never in therapy. But it's something that I think about a lot, particularly in writing this book.

So the book is, to some extent it's about a few things but a top note of it is that my mum had a sort of lifelong from about a mid-30s affair with a golfing memorabilia collector and then turned their lives over to golfing memorabilia because she was an obsessive person who couldn't just have an affair she had to pretend or pretend to herself as well that she was obsessed with golf because her lover was a golfing guy. And that's funny, but there's a poignancy to it because I think, and this is something that is to do with the way that I think, which is don't judge people, try and understand them, that she, because she was a refugee from Nazism

and her family had been very wealthy, I mean, she wouldn't have known this when she was a baby, but she would have heard about it before everything was taken away from them and most of her relatives were murdered. Before that, she would have had, if that had never happened, a big society wedding. She'd have married someone glamorous, some Prussian prince. She couldn't get that in Dollish Hill in 1972.

She married my dad, who was a Welsh working class, mainly quite angry bloke. And so she looked elsewhere for glamour. And where she found it, which is kind of brilliant, is in golf and golfing memorabilia. And I think that's what makes it kind of funny, right? For me, it's all about find the comedy in this tragedy. Yes, and there is a lot of comedy. And I'll tell you what you manage to do. When you're reading the book, there is so much pathos.

I think you have a huge amount of empathy for your family, which sometimes can be surprising, because I don't think they always treated you right when you were growing up, David. I know you've had therapy and you can take this kind of honest conversation. Yeah. But you do actually make the reader able to laugh

in the most extraordinary places. There is a photograph, is it of your older brother? Ivor, when he's a baby. Ivor, when he's a baby, which you show after also showing the reader a series of childhood pictures he did about men. Yeah. You know, I'm going to draw a man.

Yeah. And it's always a picture of your mother's lover. Well, hold on a sec. Not your dad, and it's a pipe. Well, it's because he's smoking a pipe, which your mother's lover smoked. Can I just, like, classify this? So all of this is true. All the material is true.

Some of it is me extrapolating from the truth. So my brother did some drawings when he was about seven or eight in which, like any kid, he's drawing men. And he says, here is a man. Here is a funny man. And each man has a pipe. At one point, there are two pipes. The pipe appears to be smoking a pipe.

Now, my mother's lover smoked a pipe and my dad didn't. And so I'm extrapolating from that that these are drawings of this guy. They may well not be. He might just have seen pictures of men drawing a pipe. But then at the end, there is a picture when I say, obviously, you know, this doesn't mean that in any way Ivor was definitely this man's child. And then I show a picture of him as a baby with a pipe,

which is a gag. Which is an actual photograph. It's an actual photograph. Yeah, but it's a gag. It's a joke. Yes, no, I know. I'm not suggesting. But it's quite an odd thing to want to do, actually, David, to want to make people able to laugh at a childhood that just must have been complicated for you. Yeah, I think so. But I mean, there is a point in the book where I talk about how annoyingly

comfortable I am in my own skin, which I am. I'm sort of the only person I think of who is more annoyingly comfortable in his own skin is my son, who is unbelievably comfortable in his own skin. But I am really. And so at some level, whatever damage was done by this weird childhood and this very highly broadcast affair

and my dad's anger and all that kind of stuff, it somehow led me to a place of sort of comfort and happiness and okayness, which is why the book is a celebration. And all that kind of stuff. It's somehow led me to a place of sort of comfort and happiness and okayness, which is why the book is a celebration. And comedy is part of that. Like comedy is definitely my way of thinking my way through this. And I think I say at one point,

this is what makes this book different from say, Spare. Because Spare by Prince Harry is a furious book. I've listened to it, I've all done it, but it's furious. He's so angry about the damage wrought by his family. Now, that might be interesting, but it does not make for a comfortable or funny read. It's not a celebration of the damage, which this book is. How much do you realistically think your father ever knew about your mum's affair? Because it seems extraordinary that he didn't know a lot when actually you and your brothers did know quite a lot.

Yeah, we knew about it because she was quite keen to tell us. She was keen to tell everyone. My mother thought, in a very 1970s way, that having an affair was glamorous. Really very keen to tell everyone that she was having an affair. And, of course, there was the massive red flag or white flag, if you like, of the fact that the golfing memorabilia guy had led to her becoming obsessed with golf.

That's quite a big clue, you would have thought. But the way that I golfing memorabilia guy had led to her becoming obsessed with golf that's quite a big clue you would have thought but the way that i put it in the book is that not that my dad refused to believe it or refused to see it but what i say is that he somehow managed not to notice it and the reason i use that construction is that my dad really was he's a very clever bloke but very very male welsh working class bloke for whom most of my mother's behaviour was, and I'm going to use a Jewish word here, which I use in the book, mishegas, by which I mean madness. He was constantly, like for my dad, his big thing was aggravation and avoiding it. Everything for my dad was aggravation. He was a man who liked food, football and shouting, who the effing hell is this now,

every time the phone rang. That was my dad. And so for him, my mum just becoming obsessed with golf, at some level he thought, I can't do it, I'm not interested, it's another one of her madnesses, of her mishegases. And so he just tuned it out. But I don't think this was because he was a sort of terribly frightened cuckold of a man. That just wasn't who my dad was. Yeah, you have this beautiful expression in the book,

my parents was a very ragged version of love. Yeah. I thought that was beautiful. Yeah, it's very complex that, because whether my parents were in love is to do with, I think, the notion of what we think love is. We have an idealised Hollywood Richard Curtis blessing version of love. That is never what it is.

And there is a moment in the book which is not funny uh where I have to with my brother tell my dad that my mum has died and by that time he's got dementia uh and so we have to tell him again and again and each time for about a year he completely collapses even though he seemed to be furious with my mother the whole time and they were out all the time and they had a very ragged version of love so but it's still his story right his story was that he was married to that woman and sorry i'm gonna go now sorry take as much time as you like because i just ask sorry i haven't read the book how did they meet because they seem a very unlikely twosome um well not that unlikely so one of the things that people are slightly confused about when i say my

dad was a welsh working class guy he's jewish i think some people think welsh working class therefore no he was jewish he could be jewish as well yeah and if you go back a few generations from him he's got very very orthodox uh forebears um but so my mum was a refugee she came to this country in 1939 just before the war broke out her and her parents just got out of germany and then i think in early like 1960 she's at a place called hillel house uh which was a place in london that was kind of social club for young jewish people and i know this is not in the book actually uh they had one dance and my dad said right you want to go home? Which is very my dad.

Quick worker. Well, she said, what, now? And he went, no, no, no, in a couple of dances time. And despite that moment of irritation, which was very my dad, she eventually did say yes. And that's how they got together, a Hillel House dance. Right. We've done something incredibly meta, David,

that Jane and I have already recorded our podcast today, where we put this interview into the podcast as if it's coming up in the future but it's already in the past stick with it and we've already said that you've told us a fantastic anecdote about a peter gabriel concert okay so you really must tell this fantastic anecdote now okay this will be surprising to the listener who has not imagined that they have yet to never the thing that we've seen why don't you just say tell the Peter Gabriel story because it's more fun if I said it okay do you want me to tell it yes please okay so the book includes a few stories about my life in show it's not a showbiz memoir but I do include a few stories about my life in showbiz partly to show how I think my upbringing didn't really you know prepare me for a life in

showbiz because you've got to be able to sort of not say things that might be the wrong thing to say and I never had housework because people were just saying whatever all the time and one example of that is I was a massive fan still am of Peter Gabriel massive fan of Genesis let me be out and proud about that not the lamb lies down on Broadway yeah completely oh totally the lamb lies down on Broadway how dare you for a minute, totally, the land lies down on Broadway. How dare you, for a minute, suggest that isn't a masterwork. Reel it back in, kids. Sorry, anyway,

I got to meet Peter Gabriel, who's a lovely guy. And it's funny enough, when this happened, which I think I didn't include when I did this, I've done this material on stage, but anyway,

I didn't include this because it felt like too much privilege. I'm on a skiing holiday with Peter Gabriel and I need to put that in because we are on a ski lift on our own,

me and him, when this happens, which is he's asking me about Morwenna, my partner, Morwenna Banks, and she's an actress and a performer. He says, what's she doing now? And I say, oh, she's in the new Harry Enfield show, Harry and Paul. And he says, oh, whatever happened to Harry Enfield? And I say, oh, he was off doing a show on Sky and then he did a show called Celeb on BBC Two.

And then I say, which was about a faded rock star, in fact, and it goes really quiet and cold, even in the snow, and I realise that, in fact, that the words in fact make that sound like I'm saying, like you, like you, Peter Sidney Gabriel, that's what you are. It's just totally not what I meant. And you've got nowhere to go if you're on a ski lift together. No, well, I'll tell you what I did. I think I talked about this sitcom celeb for about five minutes

just to fill the silence, a sitcom I'd never watched. I just talked about it in the hope that I could put as much distance between me and the words in fact and the rest of my life. OK. Has he forgiven you? Peter's forgiven me, I think, yeah. I have seen him since and he has forgiven me, I believe so. He's a very nice man. Excellent. The person who may not have actually has forgiven me, I think. Yeah, I have seen him since and he has forgiven me. I believe so. He's a very nice man. Excellent. The person who may not have actually has forgiven me as well

is Harry Enfield. So the second part of that story, which I will tell while I'm here, is that remarkably, I did Skins, which is a Channel 4 drama a few years ago, about 10 years ago, with Harry Enfield, who's in Skins. And I was coming back from Bristol with Harry Enfield, where that's filmed, with Harry Enfield,

and Peter Gabriel got on the train. Oh, you are joking. No, no, I know it sounds impossible, but that happened. Then Peter Gabriel got off the train, and I told Harry Enfield that story about saying, in fact, all that stuff, and Harry Enfield doesn't laugh once. And then I realised that Harry Enfield is thinking, all he's thinking about is that Peter Gabriel said

whatever happened to Harry Enfield. That's all he's thinking about. that Peter Gabriel said, whatever happened to Harry Enfield? That's all he's thinking about. I've screwed up with another one of my heroes. Excellent work. That was like one of Jane's anecdotes, but I'm very glad we got to the end. Is that a compliment? I think it probably is. Of course it is.

What does David do on a Friday night? One of our listeners has texted. Is that to do with the Keir Starmer question? It probably is, yes. I don't particularly do anything on a Friday night of a religious nature because I am a Jewish atheist, which I know confuses some people, but it shouldn't. And I sometimes am in with my family, I'm sometimes not. Every so often a Jewish person would invite me to their house for Friday night, and that's always very nice because it means they've made a slap up dinner but I don't do all that no uh sorry and do you feel confident that were Labour to form the next

government there seems a likelihood that this might happen that the anti-semitism that the party was riddled with not so long ago do you think that Sir Keir Starmer has quelled that problem I think he definitely wants to and has done some of it and some of his ways in which he's you know changed the nature of the party and whatever is definitely about that there's a kickback to that which is that Keir Starmer trying to do that will lead to more anti-semitism insofar as say there was a point where actually where Keir Starmer quite early on was mentioned that he'd read my book, Jews Don't Count. And this led to some people on the left getting very angry about that

and saying it was offensive and all the rest of it. And there's a sense in which the, you know, the ongoing reverberations from that time as he tries to sort them out will always lead to pushback, will always lead to the idea and the central idea, which is problematic about it, is that the left feel or the far feel, that the bringing up of antisemitism is always a

politicised thing, is always weaponising antisemitism in order to purge the left. The trouble with that is that antisemitism is a real thing, and some weaponisation of it may be happening, that doesn't mean that antisemitism isn't there. That was David Baddiel, and his book is out at the moment. It is simply called My Family, A Memoir, and I very much hope that you enjoyed the anecdote about Peter Gabriel that we didn't know that actually would be in the interview when we told you about it before.

Post-modernist, post-irony, just perfection, darling. Well done. Wonderful. No, well done, you. I often don't understand what I've just said, and that was a case in point. But, OK, right, well, we're back soon. And the emails, please keep them coming. We do love hearing from you.

You're always funny and you're insightful. You're just basically the best people who listen to podcasts. That's probably about right, isn't it? I think it is, yeah. Jane and Fee at Times.Radio. jane and fee at times dot radio congratulations you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fi. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off-Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler. I'm