Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Are you sitting comfortably and breathing through your feet? Then let's begin...

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

Jane Garvey is off so for one night, and one night only, Jane Mulkerrins sits in (well, until the next time Jane and Fi are off). They work through their Monday feelings by chatting American politics, sex classes and King Charles' removal van. Plus, Fi chats to double Olympic gold medalist Tom Dean about his new podcast ‘Tom Dean Medal Machine’, which is available from 25th January, listen here:https://www.globalplayer.com/podcasts/42KweB/ If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi Assistant Producer: Eve Salusbury Times Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Yes, great, marvellous, wonderful. Excellent. Yeah. I'm slightly depressed about Donald Trump, actually. That's also, I think, contributing to my state of mind. It's just, I knew it was inevitable, but it's just becoming very real now. Yeah. What do we do with that feeling of inevitability? And what I used to do with that feeling was go and volunteer, you know, in the US for Democratic candidates was the only way I could feel calm

during the whole of the 2016 election and the 2020 election. But I can't really do it from here. Well, you could. Well, I have a big phone bill. And to be honest, I'm not sure how good it was for my mental health, deep canvassing Philadelphia, Pennsylvania for, you know, months in the middle of COVID, locked in my flat. But it did at least help me feel like I was doing something.

And this just feels overwhelmingly, you know, just feel quite helpless. Did you ever feel that you had genuinely changed somebody's political direction? Yeah. Yeah. Or at least that they were considering voting in a different way yeah absolutely especially with the deep canvassing that I did with this grassroots organization in 2020 yeah so that was phoning people up to do more than just a which way do you think you're voting would you consider this other candidate this was a proper talk it was a long you were on for half an hour talking to them about you know'd fared during COVID, how their families were feeling, what they were struggling with, what they were unhappy with, what they needed to see changing. And this was calling Republicans. This was calling Republicans. It wasn't calling undecided voters. It was calling Republicans.

What do you think those Republicans would be thinking now? Do you think they've stayed swayed? No, this is the problem. I don't think they've stayed swayed at all. Because I think the last four years have been so noisy from Trump. And I think all the things that seemed a ridiculous claim at the end of 2020, the idea that the election had been stolen, the idea that January the 6th, he had nothing to do with it. The idea that he was the victim have really calcified over the last four years because it's been relentless. And I think a lot of those people felt like they needed more support and felt like, you know, they gave Biden a chance.

But unfortunately, I don't think they're going to give him another chance because I think Trump's messaging has been so effective. Yeah, so I think unfortunately people were swayed for one time only. Why doesn't the Democrat Party find a really much younger, much more energetic, much more, I don't know, kind of modern candidate? See, this is an interesting thing, because I think in the UK, we think Americans feel like, this is an interesting thing, because I think in the UK, we think Americans feel like, democratic Americans feel like us, that Biden's too old and hasn't been

very effective. Actually, they're quite pleased with him and how he's done as a president. Okay, the economy is not in great shape right now, but he's actually done quite a lot and been a pretty effective president as a democratic president. I think a lot of people I speak to aren't unhappy with him. His age is an issue, but they don't see it as a massive problem. They actually think his age and his experience is quite good. I think we over here are just, we're uninspired by him. And I think... Yeah, and we only see the lowlights.

We only see the lowlights. We only see the stumbling and the falling and the misspeaking we don't actually see him getting through you know some fairly workaday legislation that makes a big difference to people's lives there but I think it's a it's a true fact that the democrats haven't got anyone coming up through the ranks but that's also partly and this is just my opinion, because Biden won't let them because he doesn't want them to. He doesn't want to be challenged. He wants to be a second term president.

So he isn't supporting people who might have spent the last four years being groomed to be a replacement. But my mum wants to have Christmas at her house every year. She's the same age as Joe Biden. We push back now. Could you maybe just have a word with Jill? Do you know what, I'll get to you. Just ring Jill, have a word. Tell her how you managed to get your mum out of the kitchen.

I'll go round to your house. I'm going to get Cilla, that's my mum, to phone Jill. That's a conversation that we all need to hear as well. I'd like that. We could just play that as a separate podcast. Yeah. Can I share with you a small detail from my weekend, Jane? Please. Because I think you'll just immediately be able

to beat it into the dark corner of life that it deserves to be swept and beaten into. I went to a class on Sunday, and I won't be alone in signing up for a new class in January, it was called Aromatherapy Yoga. And at one point, it was largely conducted in the dark. And there was, at one point there was... To heighten the other senses. Exactly, exactly that, as the instructress told me afterwards. And there was a light dusting of something, you know... Was it legal?

Aromatherapeutic or whatever it was. But I haven't been to yoga classes for years and years and years and years. And I thought, well, I'd better just start again because that would be a good thing. At one point, the instructress, she told everybody to breathe through our feet. And the thing that surprised me was there was just no resistance to this extraordinary hour-long mantra of,

can I say bollocks, Eve? I've said bollocks. We can say word salad. Word salad. Well, it's worse than that, isn't it? Because it's all of that. Give yourself permission to do things. Breathe in the goodness.

Breathe out everything you don't need. And you just kind of think, no, A, life's not that simple. B, I don't want to be giving myself permission all the time. I mean, where's the slip? Where's the form? Where's the bit where I sign? Do I really need to do that? And you physically can't breathe through your feet. What is the daftest class you've ever been

to? Because you've lived in some very odd places. I think you've probably done some quite bendy things with your time. Yeah. Oh, gosh. I mean, when I went to sex camp in Australia, I went to a lot of weird classes. I went to Naked Awakening, which was not only getting naked in a room full of strangers, but in front of one person who was your partner for that class. And they had to witness you getting naked, which was excruciating. Poor Dave from New Zealand, I'm still sorry about that. But after the witnessing,

there was some primal screaming from other people, not me. Hang on, hang on. We've not done the witnessing yet. So by witnessing witnessing did that just give him permission to watch me right as i got naked um and and you had to watch him get naked yeah yeah give him permission and then the only bit i enjoyed about the class uh i didn't join in the howling and primal screaming that everyone else did when we got naked but we did then turn all the lights off and have a naked rave which I quite enjoyed

but yeah the same weekend I went to a bondage class which is bondage massage how does that work? there's a lot of bruising afterwards anyway I'll leave it at that I went to oh it's a funny form of yoga because I don't like yoga either.

It was spanking yoga. Oh, for heaven's sake. Yeah, again, quite a lot of bruising. But I'll go to loads of weird things now. I'm going to a gong bath sauna later. I think... Do you want... I'm not very cynical about the gong bath thing.

I'm going to have a lovely time. I think as long as you don't sit too close to it because you can damage your ears, obviously, and all that kind of stuff. But there is something lovely about... Yeah, just lying down. sounds so low sounds but i think you're right you've hit on something with the breathing through the feet thing because i went to a sound bath and tarot session not long ago because yes i live in brighton and that's what

people do on fridays um and after we'd there was you, all sorts of lying down and drumming and, you know, tarot things. And then at the end of the session, we were all told to just sit up and talk about anything that came up for us in the session. And one girl said, when we were wiggling our toes at the end of the session and, you know, getting the feeling back, she said that she had a distinct sense that she had webbed feet like a lizard. Okay. Do you think they'd be any more breathable? Possibly. Possibly, the webbing.

Quite possibly. Yeah. And then the, you know, facilitator said you should go home and look up the spiritual side of lizards and what that means. Because you quite possibly are one. And she did say, I like lizards. Okay, well...

As you said, bollocks. Yeah, but there are people out there who truly believe in the lizards, aren't they? I mean, that's the basis of... Oh, yeah, they like. Yeah, but isn't it also at the heart of some of the Scientology stuff? Oh, it's Scientology.

Oh, you're right, it is. Yeah, I believe the lizards might feature there. But I suppose when I did yoga, I mean, it would easily be 15, 20 years ago, there wasn't the talking all the way through, you know, that kind of soundtrack of whatever it's meant to be. Twaddle. Twaddle, yep, just goober speak. I found it just immensely distracting, not at all therapeutic and just really annoying

and and if it was that easy to just find the joy in life and to solve all of the you know past misgivings and misdeeds in your life uh then you know we'd all be queuing out the door wouldn't we I even get annoyed when they tell you how to breathe. It's like breathing is something that you just do. It comes quite naturally. I don't really think you have to focus on it to that extent. I know, yeah. Hello, and this one comes from Jules, who's in a windy nook in the northeast of England.

First time emailer, but after hearing the story about the tortoise on a previous episode, we've had some very rampant tortoises. I've been listening. One with a broken shell. shell yeah i feel compelled to tell you about my experience on the galapagos island of isabella as part of my nana gap year do you know what that's a whole feature isn't it from teaching i was 42 at the time i had a placement at the giant tortoise breeding center my role included caring for and monitoring the ever so cute teeny tiny baby tortoises. However each day on the walk to and from the centre I was greeted by the almighty

racket of several copulating giant tortoises who would think nothing of it to literally sustain this activity for days at a time. That is some tortoise stamina. Isn't it? But they live for a very very long time they're just on a completely different kind of time-lapse programme to the rest of us, aren't they? It does take them about a month to eat a piece of lettuce. Yeah, so four-day sex benders would seem right. And Jules is haunted by this. It haunts her to this day,

and she can vividly recall the look of bemusement and boredom on the faces of those poor, long-suffering females. You've spotted it, Jules, haven't you? Thank you for that. Following on, dear Jane and Fi, following on from your programme on royalty, as an expat living in New Zealand, this is a really good question, I think.

I wondered why the British people agreed to pay for the king's coronation while the cost of living is so high and Charles is one of the wealthiest people in the country were there protests did he pay for anything we were thank you jean it's a great question we weren't asked if we wanted to pay for it were we no i mean it was just decided and there were protests but they were um they were quite contained i'm going to use that word maybe some inverted commas around it. But no, it wasn't a question.

It wasn't like there was a referendum on it. And I will use this as an opportunity to tell one of my favourite stories about Prince Charles, which you've probably heard before, that I have been told... It's all right, I'll feign interest. I can do that role. I've been told that Prince Charles is not only wealthy but quite particular. So when he goes and stays at other people's houses for the weekend, he brings his own butler with him to make him a martini

in case they don't have martini or the drinks aren't good enough. But not only that, but sometimes he takes some of his own furniture with him as well. His own bed and paintings. I mean, I want to believe this that he basically rolls with a removal van when he goes to you know other country houses for the weekend and just installs his bed well i could understand taking maybe a regal mattress topper so that you know the the regal body didn't get in any way infested, but a whole bed and paintings. Wow. Okay.

Believable now. I can believe that. Because I think it's just that funny thing, isn't it, of there just aren't very many people around all of those top royalty. He's king now, isn't he? He's absolutely top royalty. Note to self. Who can say, no, that's a bad idea.

Yeah, what do you do? guilty note to self uh who can say no that's a bad idea yeah so you know i mean history is littered with that kind of um rather daft embellishment but that's that's a bit strange i mean i like my bed as well but i don't i wouldn't take it with me i'd be a bit insulted as well if i was the hostess you know let's say that i am the dowager Duchess of Buclough or whatever they are I don't know how to say that do you know it's the you know the B-U-C-C-L-E-U-G-H how do you say that? Beaulieu

Beaulieu okay is it? I think I just said it confidently I've absolutely no idea I think it's probably Perth I'm gonna call it let's just say Chatsworth yeah you'd be a bit put out wouldn't you if you had to take down all of your paintings

exactly what if you had to install a new dado rail just for the King's paintings gosh I tell you what sometimes we do have extraordinary listeners who know extraordinary things you could send in something anonymous if you know anything else about those kind of little details

Kathleen has said thank you so much for profiling the tricky subject of how to talk to our children about porn. My daughters are 15 and 17. I've been trying to talk to them on and off about this for some time with no success. Each time I bring it up, they tell me to stop being embarrassing and that they're not comfortable having this conversation with me. But determined to get through to them, I persevere, trying to explain calmly that violence isn't part of a loving relationship. I know there are exceptions to this,

but if they go down the 50 shades of grey route in the future, that should be their choice, not because they feel it was expected. And my most recent attempt ended with both of them leaving the room and me shouting after them, just don't let anyone choke you, in the desperate hope that this would sink in enough

to make them question any such behaviour should it arise. I'm not confident my bumbled attempts are having any positive impact and I've been strictly forbidden from talking about it again as it's too awkward. What can I do? I hate the thought of their introduction to sex being aggressive and them feeling obliged to go along with it

as I think that's the norm. But they'll walk out of the room if I raise the subject again so Kathleen I think you're not alone in this by the way so many people have emailed him with exactly that problem and actually Fumble which is the sex education website that we featured on the program on Thursday is absolutely amazing I think you could do worse than simply forward that to them. So there's loads and loads of really well-written articles, you know, written by very young people about what to expect in sexual relationships and all of those boundary issues are covered.

And, you know, apart from that, I think, I know it's difficult to do, but I think you do just have to keep on raising it within conversations until it doesn't get awkward. Or maybe just say to them, which is the bit that we would be able to talk about, that you don't find awkward. And also just let them know that you find it awkward too.

I was going to say... It's orcs all round. It's totally orcs. All conversations about anything private or personal or sexual are very orcs to have with your parents when you're a teenager. It doesn't mean that it's not going in. Yes, I would agree. And if there are just a couple of other things,

you could just shout at them as they leave the room. I really like the don't let anyone choke you. I might start shouting that at my goddaughter. She's only 11, so hopefully it's not happening anytime soon. But I like to, you know, get in there. Actually, and one tiny thing that I have done occasionally with my kids they're not kids now actually, they're quite old teenagers but when we did have to talk

about difficult things and it was awkward for both of us we used to sit on opposite sides of a sofa or the table or a bed and face the other way just so we did not have to look at each other and we'd have a conversation kind of back to back. And I know that sounds a bit daft,

but it just in some weird way, it does help. I also think having those conversations in the car helps. My mum and I used to, because she taught at the school I went to, we used to have our most difficult conversations side by side, driving to or from school so that we didn't have to look at each other. It's a very good tactic.

It is. And maybe put magic on in the background. We don't mind if it's not times radio for a while just the gentle soothing sounds of something by westlife exactly this is related to something you mentioned last week on the podcast about wanting to hear from people who lived in all male households that was very interesting and actually I've got multiple friends who've got three boys. Yeah, they just need respite most of the time, those people. Respite and a bit of a hand hanging the laundry out. But this is from Beck.

Dear Jane and Fee, not my story, but my mother-in-law's. Family legend tells a story of her getting so frustrated with the men in her life, a husband and three sons, not doing enough to help her around the house that she took a pair of scissors to the electrical cable and cut it through while they were watching telly. She didn't switch it off at the wall first. It's very dangerous. Exactly.

I don't know how she didn't get electrocuted. She did it so often that in the end the cable was so short that the telly had to be right in front of the socket for it to reach. She says, Bec said, while my husband tells this story with amusement, he's also sympathetic towards her and has not continued to behave like this in his own home.

So maybe there was something to be said for her methods after all. Meanwhile, Bec said, I am jealous of the scissors she had as one, they were obviously impressively sharp and B, she could locate them when she needed them, neither of which applies to the scissors in my house i do know of one lovely lovely mum who's got four boys uh who just carries around all of her kind of female things in a wash bag you know just because the because the house is just absolutely festooned in you know, Gillette. And so she's got a bag of pretty

and nice smelling things. She's carried it around so she can smell it at all times. She doesn't have to smell the boy. There's nothing that that woman doesn't know about male behaviour and she's been a fountain of information and I thank her for it. voiceover describes what's happening on your iphone screen voiceover on settings so you can navigate it just by listening books contacts calendar double tap to open breakfast with from 10 to 11 and get on with your day accessibility There's more to iPhone.

Do you want to squeeze one in before we go to our big guest? Yeah. Can we squeeze placentas in? Please do. Okay. I've squeezed a couple out, love. What did you do to them? Eat them? Bury them? No, not at all. No. I'm not that type of mum, actually. Go to more aromatherapy yoga and you might be. Yes. Yep No, I'm not that type of mum, actually.

Go to more aromatherapy yoga and you might be. Yes, yep. And I'm sorry if I let the side down and somebody's pear tree could have really benefited from it, but no, they just went in the waste. No. So this is from a listener who doesn't say where she is, actually, but she says,

Apologies if if this common knowledge or has been discussed before and i'm just late to the party but i had no idea that placentas could be taken home from hospitals for burial or consumption our listener says i only recently came across someone on facebook who was asking about the strict quarantine laws for bringing plants into tasmania she was concerned that the plants she'd grown from the buried placentas of her children would be confiscated when she moved there. When others responded with helpful advice, I realised I was totally out of loop on the topic. Also, I didn't know that placentas were

taken home and eaten. Only found out from reading the Women's Royal Hospital Placenta Fact Sheet. Mind you, our listener says it's eons ago when I left hospital with a baby in one hand and the address of the local postnatal classes in the other um but she has very kindly sent us the link to the placenta fact sheet from the women's royal hospital in victoria australia um it is actually fascinating this read um and does it advise you to eat it or does it just say that you can it says yeah taking your placenta home for consumption slash encapsulation if your plan is to take it it for consumption, such as encapsulation, not quite sure what that means, tell your midwife before the birth so that she handles it with sterile gloves and quickly puts it in the cooler. Placenta for consumption should not be treated just as you would treat raw, fresh meat.

Should be placed in the cooler as soon as possible. Should not be stored in a fridge where food is kept. It's fascinating. I will just say, I was in South Korea in November and I was offered a placenta massage. And they have placenta face masks as well. I was confused. I didn't know whose placenta.

Do they farm them? God. I said no. It was also 65 quid for the placenta massage, so. I tell you what, my aromatherapy yoga is just your average kind of let's get a cup of coffee type thing, isn't it? Placenta massage. I would find that.

So if it was with somebody else's placenta, I would think that was almost a kind of criminal activity. I know, exactly. Do they harvest them? Placenta smuggling. Okay. And also I don't like the sound of something that you can't keep in a fridge

with other foods so stories of placentas will keep us going for months I suspect and do you want, there's something so weird and tribal there isn't there about nearly all aspects of parenting

and that kind of um you know owning your natural birth and the placenta eating type stuff is i definitely felt bad that i just was really happy i was very happy to go into hospital to have my babies only manage that with one of them um but also just didn't even think to ask about keeping the and i have been made to feel on occasion a bit bad about that really yes so i would love to hear wow that i mean it's one thing you know putting pressure on women to breastfeed but putting pressure on you to eat your own content if you don't fancy it no i think there is a thing i think there is a there is a thing. I think there is a thing. And I suppose it's just people going against the kind of medicalisation of maternity services.

And there's an argument for that. There's definitely an argument for that. I can see that. But I think I've sometimes in conversation dodged questions about how I had my children and what I did in case I slightly didn't pass muster. From people who could successfully breathe through their feet, no less, I'm sure. Bingo.

Now, you might have watched my next guest win gold at the 2020 Tokyo Games in the pool, a superb victory in both the 200 metre freestyle and the 4x200 metre relay. But you might also remember Tom Dean's family for their fabulous celebration back at home in the small hours of the night. Now Tom is in the squad for the 2024 Paris Olympics where he hopes to win not two but five gold medals. He also has a podcast out called Medal Machine where he's asking lots of other sporting legends and business leaders and all sorts for their advice and helping him achieve his dreams. Now I put it to him that it starts, the podcast that is, with some of the most motivational music ever made

in the history of motivational music taken from the CD mark. Now, that's what I call the most motivational music ever, part 342. I asked Tom how important music might be to his training. We use music when we're training because when you've got those really long, tough, you know, two-hour tough sessions where you're in the trenches, that's when we actually use music when we're training because when you've got those really long, tough, two-hour tough sessions where you're in the trenches, that's when we actually use music. I don't use it when I race though, so I don't listen to music. I haven't got any headphones on, I've got no earphones in, I'm very much wanting to hear the crowd and hear everyone around me. But when I'm

training, my coach, Dave, he's a really big house music fan. So he's always got a big set on. He's got this massive speaker that he wheels on poolside and we'll have a lot of house music going when we're training. But no, when I actually compete, I'm very much wanting to hear the crowd and everyone else around me. Because quite a lot of your fellow competitors will come on, won't they, with the massive headphones. Is that to block out the noise or are they listening to the motivational music? think so block out the noise get themselves psyched up I'm not too sure but

for me I'm always like you know the crowd's there it's going to be loud there's going to be people cheering there's going to be pressure you know I don't want to kind of hide away behind headphones I want to go out there and hear it and see everyone and enjoy it um so I've and also like I always worry that it's another thing that can go wrong you know I'm always worried that if I've got a Spotify song up one of my siblings is going to be on the Spotify account and change music or something I'm going to end up listening to what they're listening to when I'm walking out to a race so no I'm one less thing to worry about I'm very happy to walk out and hear the crowd. Can you take us into the pool with you when you are racing talk us through what that actually feels like

because it's a it is different to other sports isn't it because you are underwater I wonder about the senses that you have with regard to the crowd and actually knowing where your fellow competitors are in the pool as well yeah so so firstly you're right it's where everyone else is so i only breathe to the right hand side so i do four lengths of the pool so half that i'm breathing one way half i'm breathing the other way so you can't have a rough idea of where everyone is but you never know at all times you know it's not like you're on a pitch and you can see everyone you have a rough idea of where everyone is you can hear the crowd but when you're underwater you can't you know off the turns and on the dive and stuff like that um so that that's that's always an interesting one and also you you know

you kind of have a sense of your body it's almost hard to explain you have like the feel in the water and how you how your how your body's feeling in the water and when you you've trained well and you're tapered and you're at that peak peak performance i always equate it to like that first length it's like you're floating above the water almost you're so ready to go and fired up that first it's like a free length you know and then you start to get into the race and then as you get close to the end you've really got a kind of graft to get your hand on the wall but yeah it's a weird weird experience and not one I can quite put into words almost. Yeah, it's almost slightly out of body. It's such an interesting point, isn't it?

Because in other sports, you would be able to kind of know that you were in a photo finish, wouldn't you? Because you'd be able to see where the other athletes were or, you know, if you're throwing the javelin or whatever, you know, the visuals are incredibly important. So that last kind of push that you do towards the wall how do you train for that how do you train for knowing that somebody else might be in in exactly the same place in the pool as you yes when I actually won in Tokyo I've been to the right hand side and the guy that came second is a friend of mine, a teammate of mine.

He was on the left-hand side of me, so I didn't even know he was just a few one-hundredths of a second behind me. So I'm just thinking down the last 15 metres, get your hand on the wall as quickly as possible. Just get to the end of this lane as quickly as possible. In terms of actual training, we will do sessions where you push your body to maximum exertion. You produce as much lactic acid in your muscles as possible. And then you try and do a real fast sprint, you know, an all out 50 meter effort. So just a single length to try and recreate what it's going to feel like when you're three quarters of the way through the race. Your muscles are locking up with the with the lactic acid and you've got to put a spurt on at the end.

So we do train for it. I think when you're in training, you've got to. I always take myself to a place where I like I getting chased down I'm fighting for a spot I'm fighting for a medal I'm fighting to win um to try and recreate it but yeah and then you hope that when you get to race day your your body's prepped and you're not gonna you know come back in a body bag and and not manage to make it to the end of the pool yes god heaven forfend uh let's talk about the podcast then Tom Dean medal machine. So you're looking ahead to the Olympic Games in Paris and you're asking all kinds of people to share a bit of wisdom with you in order to make sure that you absolutely nail it. Now, I did think, gosh, what happens if all of your competitors are just listening to Tom Dean's metal machine and picking up all of the tips too. Yeah, absolutely. Then, then, you know, they'll, they'll get all the advice as well, but hopefully it's going to be,

it's going to be a conversation I'll be having. So it'll be a little bit more tailored. It's going to be kind of a bit more individual, but it's also going to be taking everyone on the journey. So other athletes, competitors, members of the public, whoever, getting everyone everyone you know to to know what it's like have an insight into being an elite athlete track people you know track me on this journey and and and see what the six months leading up to an olympic games and and

you know one of only two or three that an athlete may get in their lifestyle is really like because most of the time it's just that one and a half, two minutes that people see at the end. It's not the months leading up to it. So that's the kind of premise of it. And also, like you said, getting people from all different industries, all different worlds to chip in and bring any advice and any help they can and be part of that machine as well. So tell us about your expectations at Paris 2024. So tell us about your expectations at Paris 2024. So it is the five medals. I've been very public in saying that. And I wasn't wanting to go out and say that initially, but I wasn't sure whether it was something I should do.

It was something that I spoke about with my coach and with my agent. And then we made the choice to actually say, you know what, we're going to go out there and we're going to be public with it. And people can come on this journey with us. And it's not saying, you know, it's not like in a cocky way or an arrogant way. It's like, right, I'm going to give my all. I'm going to give my best shot to try and win five. And yes, the stars are going to have to align because everything's got to go perfect in every heat and semifinal and relay. The training's got to be great and injury and illness have to, you know, I have to be clear of both of them. But this is what I want to do. It is possible.

And come on this journey with me. And hopefully we're going to go out to France. And yeah, that's exactly what we're going to do, get the five. And how worried are you about illness? Because you had this terrible experience, didn't you, before Tokyo where you had COVID not once, but twice. And I can really understand how that would make you perhaps more anxious than another competitor who hadn't had that experience. Injury and illness are the bane of any athlete's life.

They're often out of our control, but we'll do all we can to prevent them. They're often out of our control, but we'll do all we can to prevent them. You know, this time three years ago, I was literally in my bed, isolating, feeling awful with my second bout of COVID. You know, we're only two, three months away from the Olympic trials. So it wasn't it wasn't a happy position to be in. But this year so far, it's been a clean run. Touch wood that, you know, long may that continue. And we're doing everything we can. You know, I'm being extra diligent when it comes to um my my my prehab i'm my warm-up

routines i'm putting extra time into all that my my illness um how how conscious of it i am you know even things like public transport you know having to to avoid public transport or or if you do go on it's like wearing a mask and and keep you on top of your vitamins and minerals. And it comes down to it's everything. It's all encompassing. And it's something you never ever switch off from as an athlete. I thought Jessica Ennis-Hill said some really interesting things in the edition of the podcast that I've been able to listen to, particularly about having a target on your back as an athlete going into a second Olympics or, you know, possibly, you know, you'll go into a third as well as, you know, the person to beat.

And actually what she said was just own it because your sheer presence might make other competitors slightly mess up. And I thought, gosh, that's a top tip actually isn't it to to be the one who just goes you know you deal with that it's not on me completely and it's using that as a superpower you know there's going to be pressure there are going to be crowds there's going to be expected even doing this podcast you know going out and saying I want to go win five that's like adding a massive amount of pressure and I've had people say what if it doesn't come off and what if it doesn't happen but actually I'm going to use it to my advantage and I'm going to use this podcast and this platform and the people helping me and the fact that I'm defending Olympic champion I'm going to use it to my advantage you know and

I'm going to walk out there with hopefully a presence and hopefully um you know my my head held high knowing that I'm I'm trying to go and achieve this great thing and and you know if people do listen to podcasts they'll understand the the work I'm putting in and and I'm trying to go and achieve this great thing. And, you know, if people do listen to podcasts, they'll understand the work I'm putting in and I'm able to tap into really, really helpful bits of advice like Jess said, go out there and let it play into your hand. Don't let it hinder you, let it help you. How do you make a kind of distinction between how you are in your athletic life, which is, as we've heard, all about winning, all about having that kind of distinction between how you are in your athletic life, which is, as we've heard,

all about winning, all about having that kind of, I'm the one to beat. And then actually in the rest of life, in kind of civilian street, that kind of attitude, it doesn't often go down very well, actually, Tom. You know, people actually, I think, you know, you need empathy, you need a bit of humility, all those kinds of things, I think, you know, you need empathy, you need a bit of humility, all those kind of things. So how do you understand that balance? I very much when I'm away from the pool, I very much like to switch off from from that life. And I think you have to be aggressive, you have to be competitive. And you have to be pretty selfish and quite brutal when you are in that environment. It's the nature of the job I'm in but I very much like to switch off from that I like to think I'm quite laid back and hopefully

you know my friends and and and family will agree with me you know I think the competitive side comes out when I'm doing play other sports and stuff like that but but for the most part I very much like to switch off from that and and you know when I when I do spend time with with with family and friends it is it is the complete opposite. And I'm able to completely disassociate the two. Tom Dean, Metal Machine, is the podcast. It's out now. I can't wait to see how he does in Paris 2024.

I almost wish that his family weren't going with him because then we'd be able to see, do you remember the cutbacks to his family celebrating? They just went, the family went absolutely mental in the middle of the night when he won in Tokyo it was a lovely lovely scene um and do you know I I think he's got such a future outside of the pool as well because what a canny 24 year old to even be able to answer that question about how you separate the intensely competitive nature of sport with the fact that showing those kind of personality traits in real life will make people dislike you it's a it's a very odd thing that isn't it it's it is two sides of the human coin but it is good to know that that's going to happen to you when you're chasing all of your gold dreams.

I also think, I mean, I think that's a very wise thing to know at 24 about any of your personalities, you know, even if you're not an Olympic medal winner, to know that certain bits of yourself have to be kept in a box or channelled into one bit of your life. I think, you know, some people in the workplace would do well to learn that. Yeah, some people never have, even when they're 64. It's always lovely to see you, Jane Mulkerins.

Thank you for bringing your sparkle and your wisdom and your political knowledge to Off Air. Jane Garvey is back for the rest of the week, we hope, but she is in a part of the country that you couldn't actually get back from because of the storm so we cross our fingers for her she should be here tomorrow has she accidentally been phoned to cyprus or something do you think she could be i mean i think sometimes her weekends are more exotic than she lets on i think she said it was an 80th yeah but also i think it i think she's sending out code to the world. I think when she says soup,

she's actually sending out code to her people and they're all gathering somewhere and doing something. They're probably doing, what was it called? Bondi-massage. Bondisage. Bondisage. I think vegetable soup is... Check her bruises tomorrow when she gets back, if she gets back.

I think it's code for bondisage. Right, have a very good evening, peoples. Very kind of you to listen. It's Jane and Fi at times.radio. If you want to bung us an email, we'll take them on all subjects. Goodbye. You did it. Elite listener status for you for getting through another half hour or so

of our whimsical ramblings. Otherwise known as the hugely successful podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. We missed the modesty class. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler, the podcast executive producer. It's a man. It's Henry Tribe. Yeah, he's an executive.

Now, if you want even more, and let's face it, who wouldn't, then stick Times Radio on at three o'clock Monday until Thursday every week. And you can hear our take on the big news stories of the day, as well as a genuinely interesting mix of brilliant and entertaining guests on all sorts of subjects. Thank you for bearing with us. And we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon. VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iphone screen voiceover on settings so you can

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