Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Back-to-back Ball (with David Tennant)

Episode Date: July 12, 2023

It's another instalment of Jane and Jane. They're chatting trips to Las Vegas, more Penny-farthing sightings, and seeing Michael Ball in the West End. Actor David Tennant joins to talk about the new series of his show Good Omens, which is back on Prime Video from July 28. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail]. Follow us on Instagram! @JaneandFi Assistant Producer: Matt Murphy Times Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Have you ever been to Vegas? Is this recording? Yes. I have been to Vegas. Okay, and? Well, I know it divides people, Vegas, and I did a road trip with one of my best mates and her brother back in, actually I'll have to correct that,

with my best mate and her brother, because she might listen. And when was it? I'm just trying to think. It was 95. Anyway, I had been to America before, but only once, and we were driving, I think, this is a long story. Well, it's not a long story. It feels like a long story because it's me telling it and I'm bored already. I think we drove across the course of a day, because you can do this,

from Arizona to Vegas. Would that be right? Yeah. Yeah. So from Yosemite to Vegas? No, Yosemite is further north. But anyway, whatever. The geography is not important.

No, it isn't. But I remember, you know when you're driving across the desert and you suddenly, it's relatively sudden, you suddenly see the lights of Vegas in the desert. And it's just absurd. And for me, it never stopped being absurd and I couldn't get out there quickly enough no this is why I was interested to ask you because um yeah I every time I've been to Vegas I always feel like I'm being held hostage every single time I'm there right I've been on hendoos there that make that make that film The Hangover look

like Frozen honestly but even when I've been there for work, I just cannot get out of there quickly enough. There's something about it that makes me feel deeply uncomfortable. But I know people who love it. Anyway, it's a strange, strange place. Yeah, but is it the synthetic nature of everything that gets to you? What is it? I'm not quite sure.

It just makes me feel like I've been there forever and I need to get out have you stayed in one of those novelty hotels in vegas oh they're all a bit not well they are a bit yeah which is the best or worst depending on your viewpoint um well caesar's palace the place where where the woman was held hostage today she is safe by the way she did she did get out that's pretty awful i mean a fake greek city uh inside vegas um there's um the one that's fake france which is a bit weird um paris texas or you know it's paris france um it's got a fake eiffel tower in it things like that i mean it's just all deeply deeply weird and um there's just

hundreds of thousands of people everywhere just going to very expensive restaurants and then drinking through the night in you know in casinos that pump oxygen in to keep you drinking and gambling and what could possibly go wrong and they're all on the slots wearing adult nappies yeah smoking inside okay anyway. Yes, well, do take me there. I really can't wait. People get married there. Oh, anyway. Yeah, I just couldn't think of anything worse.

No. Big guest today, David Tennant. We'll talk about him in a moment or two. You were saying yesterday you haven't interviewed him. No. I've had the pleasure. And I'm not going to say any more, but if you listen to the end of the interview with David Tennant, you'll hear from me a kind of an attempt, I suppose you could loosely call it an attempt at humour,

and didn't really land. He just didn't know what to do with it, but then I can't really blame him. And anyway, just listen. Jane, I'd like to say that you may not know this, but you are known for comedy. She doesn't know how to take that either. Can I read this first email, which is about David Tennant? Yes. So this message comes from someone who I'm not going to name

because she says, I don't know whether you should read this out or not. However, I shall tell you, I have seen David Tennant completely in the nude. A Shakespeare play in Manchester, she goes on. Macbeth, if my memory serves me right, I can't really remember the nude scenes in Macbeth. Anyway, the opening scene is him taking a shower.

I was sat facing him, so got the full frontal view. It is a thought that comes to mind when I see him on the telly from time to time. Warm regards. Lacking in detail, that email, in some ways, but thank you very much. I think it's enough. Is there a shower scene in Macbeth?

It's a different Macbeth to the one I read at Jesus. That sounds to me a little bit like Fruity Macbeth, which has so far passed me by. This is a much, as you might expect from the other Jane, me, a much cleaner and more respectable email on the same subject. I wish you'd been able to tell David Tennant how delighted my family were when Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor regenerated into David

last year. Now I don't watch Doctor Who do you watch it? Not for a while. No I'm afraid it's one of those things that you are either in the club and by the way good luck to you because I know it means a tremendous amount to people. By a while I mean about 30 years. Yeah. I respect the fact that it's a hugely popular show. I'm completely on the same page as you. It means a great deal to people and good luck to them. They do no harm. Anyway, Joanna says we were sat there watching the series finale and to our complete

surprise and total delight the Doctor regenerated and it was David Tennant. My 14 year old son and I screamed his name out loud several times. It's David Tennant! It's David Tennant! It's David Tennant. My 15-year-old daughter ran downstairs to see what all the fuss was about. You must have been loud because to get a 15-year-old girl to come downstairs to interact with the rest of the family, that's phenomenal.

So the racket must have been off the scale. Joanna says it was a truly magic moment. David has and always will be our family's favourite Doctor Who. We are so looking forward to watching the next series. There we go. Right, what else have you got, Jane? So, there seems to be a new theme

that has begun in the last couple of days, Jane. Penny Farthing Watch. Oh yes. I've got numerous emails here about penny farthing spots around the country. Who knew? It's not just Jeremy Vine. By the way, can we just say, just a slightly sarky note here, which is very unusual for me,

but this unnamed BBC presenter saga is now somewhat developing into kind of Jeremy Vine week. Yeah. And I'm beginning to wonder whether, I don't know, is it his place to put himself... I have sympathy, I don't know, is it his place to put himself? I have sympathy. I do have sympathy. But he's everywhere. You can't shift for him. Yeah, he does seem to have taken it upon himself to...

I don't know. I mean, maybe he's the only person. Maybe they've nominated him as shop steward for calling for this person's resignation. Maybe they all got together in the forecourt and said, Jeremy, you're good at this, you be shop steward for calling for this person's resignation. Maybe they all got together in the forecourt and said, Jeremy, you're good at this, you be shop steward for BBC. That's a very good point, actually. Have all the male BBC personalities, presenters, call them what you like, just to make certain

that you don't in any way point to the identity of the unnamed individual. Yeah, maybe they all got together, had a meeting and designated Big Jez the gob on the stick. Exactly, the gob on the stick. Yeah. Yeah, and yeah, the Penny Farthing. So, Dear Jane and Jane, spotted yesterday en route

between Saffron Walden and Cambridge, Penny Farthing negotiating a very busy roundabout. Commuting man, obviously Incongruously not in a flat cap But full lycra cycling garb Thanks to you, I was able to inwardly tut In the knowledge that no less an authority than James May Considers this a danger to other road users

Yes, and he's quite right too I mean, I also do think If you are going to don an outfit for penny farthing riding, I mean, go all the way and get some tweed on. Don't wear lycra on a penny farthing. That's mixing it all up. I'm thinking sort of Fenland. It's quite flat, isn't it?

That's true. You know where that'll be? That'll be an academic on the long university holiday, won't it? Well, no, it will be one of those. Taking time off from ancient Rome, Roman studies studies and just cycling out to Ely. Just to get some respite from all the pressure. I don't mean that because there are some very hard-working people in our universities. Jane?

Yes, Jane. And do you have any other penny-farthing sightings? Yes, absolutely. Another one from Beckenham. News that we have a gentleman resident who spends much of his time faffing around on a penny farthing. This one, however, in full Sherlock Holmes attire, plunging us all into chaos whenever our paths cross. I mean, at least he's dressed appropriately.

This listener says, if you and Jeremy Vine ever fancy a visit to the South London Badlands, give me a shout and we can all sit on a bus stop bench watching him wobble past. That sounds like a great way to watching him wobble past. OK. That sounds like a great way to spend an afternoon, to be honest. I could do that over the weekend, actually. So I will definitely.

We'll get the details. Yeah, thank you very much. What we're missing so far is a woman on a penny farthing. So if you've seen one, we desperately need to hear from you. Jane and Fi at Times.Radio. Even in her absence, she's still very much a part of the email address. I mean, it's difficult with our bustles, isn't it? On the Penny Farthing.

It's really difficult. It's probably right, isn't it? The Penny Farthing, of course, was not designed for a woman. No! No. No. I mean, women weren't even,

they had to ride side saddle, didn't they? Do you remember when the old queen used to do Trooping the Colour side saddle? No. She did. She did. I mean, she was obviously a phenomenal horsewoman, but it was just like it would have been unseemly for her to ride the other way. You know, all sorts of things can happen, can't they, when you ride?

I'm afraid we can't go there, Jane. Just a third and final penny farthing. Final penny farthing in Kent. So this is from a listener who says, wanted to let you know another chap regularly rides this penny farthing, the supremely talented musician Tom Carradine, famous here in Kent and also in London for his fabulous Cockney sing-alongs. The listener says, I didn't think I'd ever be saying excitedly,

look at the penny farthing to our three-year-old daughter. But here we are. Right. And she'll treasure that moment. It's a new sport for the summer. Imagine, say you're three and you see somebody on a penny farthing. Will she remember that when she's 100? She might do.

What was that man with the big wheels and the small stabilisers? And she'll try and tell her great-grandchildren about it. And they'll go, what? Somebody, oh, Sarah. Thank you very much, Sarah. Sarah says that they are listening to me and she means the BBC, because they've just done an article on the BBC website connecting threads, that's Meta's answer to Twitter,

to the horrific post-apocalyptic BBC film Threads, which I'm still haunted by. You're quite right. If you want to find that, it's on the BBC website. Threads, the BBC drama which affected a generation of viewers. And I'm still surprised that Meta didn't check the name out and thought that Threads would be an inviting place for people like me to go.

And because of that blooming thing, I still can't get out of my head, directed by Mick Jackson, I cannot join Threads. But thank you, directed by Mick Jackson. I cannot join threads. But thank you, Sarah, for drawing my attention to that article. I think that's fine, Jane. You've got plenty to do with your time. You don't need to join yet another social media platform, do you?

When you say plenty of things to do, that's very kind of you. Now, Catelyn Moran was on Off Air last week because she was on The Times radio show talking about her book What About Men? And there has been a fair amount of criticism of the book, as well as many people saying how interesting they are finding it. Liz says, I listened with interest to your interview with Catlin. I read excerpts from her new book in the Times and a couple of reviews, most notably the widely shared and very critical one in The New Statesman and another one in The Critic.

Now, as a woman and a feminist, not the fun kind, I'm afraid I completely agree with her male critics. My main beef with her book is that it's just lazy. It reads as if it's been dashed off, with Catlin doing little research and instead making wild assumptions based on nothing more than chats with a few friends and her Twitter followers. There are no books on fatherhood. This is patently untrue. Just last week, the acclaimed novelist Richard Ford talked about his latest novel, which is about a father and son going on a road trip,

and then talked about his male friendships. No books for inspiring boys about being inspiring men? What? I bought my son such a book five or six years ago. They are there if you bother to check. There are also many substacks. That's another online journalism site where you can read all sorts of articles.

Yeah. And Liz says there are lots of substacks about fatherhood too. It's a long email, Liz, and thank you very much for it. I mean, I did read What About Men, cover to cover. And yes, I suppose you could argue there are some generalisations. Did the book make me think? Absolutely it did. Has it started loads of probably quite difficult conversations? Yes. And is it a success?

Enormously so. It's already number one in the bestsellers chart. But I think it is about asking questions, isn't it? About starting conversations. Perhaps Catlin hasn't answered all of them herself. Well, she can't. No, she can't. And I feel like this is a topic that we're only really just starting to talk about in great depth. So the fact that she's taking it to the next place, I think can only be a positive. And putting herself

out there and knowing that she's going to get slagged off because this time she's talking about men and not women, you could really say that's a brave thing to do because she doesn't need to make herself the target of potential criticism, does she? She

can just carry on writing brilliantly for the Times. Yeah. I also want to know in what way, Liz, are you not a fun feminist? Well, I mean, well, am I one? How's that distinction? I mean, I am a feminist. I think you're pretty fun, Jane. I mean, you're going to Aspects of Love later tonight.

Oh dear God, you've just reminded me. Sorry, I mean, no, I shouldn't say that because Michael Ball, who I'm speaking to next week, my voice went all bright there and bubbly when I remembered why I was going to Aspects of Love. If I'm honest, it's just that you're listening to us talking now. It's 20 past five and I'm just thinking the show doesn't start until half seven. I've got to schlep onto the tube. Are you going to go home first or are you just going to pass some time in a Starbucks or something?

Yeah, go to a Starbucks. Get myself a toasty. Get yourself a toasty. Maybe a small espresso just to pick yourself up. I'm meeting a friend and she's going to see me outside, but I think she won't mind me saying that she's already been to the matinee of Aspects of Love. Today? Good Lord.

She's doubling up on Michael Ball. Well, she pays for her other ticket. Back-to-back ball. Tonight's a freebie with me. Wow. She is a fan. She is a fan. I mean, yeah.

Good Lord. That's not good Lord. He's a very popular... But twice in a day. It's a lot of ball. Yeah, well, I know. But some people sit and watch two cricket matches in a day or a load of tennis, won't they?

But they usually go differently if it's two different matches, don day or a load of tennis weren't they but they usually go differently if if it's two different matches don't they it's not exactly the same well it might be they might do a twist that's true live theatre who knows the jeopardy anything could happen the show must go on but anything could happen anything um this is from helen we'll get on to david tennant in a moment or two um it's from helen uh in regard regard to Catherine Faulkner who was a guest on the program yesterday uh talking about her novel she was also on offer as well the other mothers Helen says I found that conversation with Catherine quite intriguing because what she's describing is what I was expecting when my daughter started her foundation year but it's

not what I've been through the more I've reflected on it as the now more seasoned mum of a five-year-old the more I think my expectations of what motherhood would be like were heavily influenced by television and books but the reality has been quite different. I've never really gelled with another group of mums, never found the common ground of having children is enough to form a sort of friendship. When my daughter first started school, I put so much pressure on myself to fit in with the other mothers in particular. I was so convinced that if I didn't make friends with the other mums, then my daughter would be a pariah. What I forgot is that kids are generally much better at that sort of stuff than adults. She's made loads of friends

without my help. And it also helped my feelings about the whole school gates thing when my husband pointed out it's likely because we're not from here we moved to our small rural town five years ago whereas many of the parents at the school gates have lived here for much longer and have known each other since they were much younger I think age is a factor as well before my daughter started school I always thought of myself as an averagely aged mum. I had her at 32, but it turns out a lot of my parents, a lot of the parents are a good decade younger than me. I'm also one of the only mums who works full time or be in a flexible role from home. I wonder if any other rural mums have felt similar differences to the actual experience of the school gates and what they were maybe expecting? Or if you're just not a massively confident person yourself,

do you find the school gates a bit of a gauntlet, certainly for the first couple of terms? Really interesting questions there, Helen. Thank you. And, yeah, I imagine that, I don't know, I think because I'd already met some some other mothers before my children started school we sort of had each other but I I'm a very sort of change resistant individual so there was no way my kids were going to change school we're never going to move um and I'm going to be carried out of my house in a box Jane I really am I think it is a really interesting

kind of challenge because it is a subculture mums at the school gates is a subculture not forever it's a sort of temporal subculture that that you do feel like you have to work hard to get into it's worse now because whatsapp groups and I don't have children but obviously many of my friends do I'm in my mid-40s so many of my friends have small children and they have to buy into the mum's whatsapp group and you know sometimes they meet people they like often they're people who they just feel like they're people they are sharing some kind of trenches with and it's helpful to have people who can do you know after school play dates drop-offs pick-ups if you're going to be late and actually I think some of my

friends just see them as colleagues in a way they're sort of colleagues yeah you if you're going to be late and actually I think some of my friends just see them as colleagues in a way Oh they are! They're sort of colleagues yeah you're working at this place for several years and you're just going to get on and get on with them and maybe have them around for a barbecue occasionally and the kids can have a nice time but they might not be your friends for life but it doesn't really matter. No

it doesn't matter if you can all help each other out and there doesn't need to be any backbiting but Catherine did mention that there is a kind of, sometimes there's a hierarchy in WhatsApp groups. Who's the admin? Who do they let in? If you're the admin, can you chuck people out? I don't think you can chuck people out.

You can add new people. You can chuck people out. You can chuck people out. Matt knows. Have you chucked people out of WhatsApp groups, Matt? He has. Oh, he's nodding. He seemed like such a nice lad. out. Matt knows. Matt knows, yeah. Have you chucked people out of WhatsApp groups, Matt? He has. Oh, he's nodding. He seemed like such a nice man.

He did seem nice. Now I'm nervous. Yeah, well, I don't think I'm currently in a WhatsApp group with you, Jane. Not all with Matt. All with Matt. But listen, I remain the eternal optimist. Thank you. Let us now bring in to our happy house, thespian giant David Tennant.

He is today's big interview He came in to talk about Well, just about everything actually On his CV How he started Doctor Who There she goes But we started with the second series

Of Good Omens Which comes out later on this month And I asked him to tell us a little bit about it Well, it's from the mind The minds of Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett A novel they wrote many, many years ago now, although we only turned it into a TV show four years ago the first series came out.

And it was always intended as a one-off. It's about an angel who is heaven's emissary on earth, that's Aziraphale, played by Michael Sheen, and a demon who is hell's emissary on earth, and that's Crowley, and that's me. And they have been together on Earth throughout the millennia, one doing Heaven's work, one doing Hell's work.

And they work out quite early on that actually they can reduce their respective workloads quite considerably by cancelling each other out a little bit. So they quite cleverly, over the many centuries, become, although they would never admit it, they become firm friends. And then Jesus is being redelivered to Earth. The second coming is scheduled.

They realise that that means the end times are nigh. They set out to avert that. They avert the apocalypse. As a result of that, they get cut off from their respective head offices. So series two begins with them as free agents living on Earth. Yeah, one is running a bookshop, but that's not you, sadly.

That's not me, no. You're living in a car. Well, yes, unfortunately for Crowley, the apartment came with the job. So he's been kicked out and he's living in his car with his beloved pot plants. Now, you are quite close to Michael Sheen in real life and in the show. In fact, there's an element of a bromance between your characters, isn't there?

Did I detect the love that dare not speak its name between the devil and the angel? Crowley would never admit that. That's certainly not how he sees it. He finds all that sort of, you know, displays of affection rather risible. It's one of those relationships that people can project onto what they wish to see. And indeed, that has certainly happened.

I think since the novel first came out and certainly since the TV show first came out, people are deciding what this relationship is. I will leave that for every audience member to make up their own mind. OK. I mean, when you watch something like this, I was only watching it on a laptop the other day, a preview one, but the money something like this, I mean, I was only watching it on a laptop the other day, but a preview one, but the money that Amazon have got to put,

I mean, it's, it's brilliant. It's slick. It's got colour. The action sequences are incredible. Are you aware of that when you're making it? Oh, sure.

Oh, it feels like a Rolls Royce production to be part of. Certainly. There's been a bit of an arms race in television that production there hasn't there over the last few years and and uh the expectations of the audience are such that you've kind of got to make it look a certain way it's got to have a certain swagger to it to kind of compete in that it's a it's a it's an overcrowded marketplace right now so uh you know you want your show to punch through and to make it and investing in it.

But it starts with the writing. It always starts with that central idea. And when you've got something from the mind of Neil Gaiman, then it's worth investing in, I think. Do you ever just kick back a bit and contrast it to, I don't know, your first ever paid acting role? In fact, what was it? What did you do? Well, post-drama school, it was a tour of a Brecht play, The Resistible Rise of Arturo Uy. Oh, yes. And we toured round in a little van

and did one-night stands all over Scotland with 784, Scottish People's Theatre. That was my first post-drama school gig. I had done one job at drama school, an episode of a children's drama, sort of pre-drama school drama school. An episode of a children's drama. Sort of pre-drama school, sorry. An episode of a children's drama called The Secret of Croftmoor.

What was that about? There was a family who lived on a mother and son who lived on a croft somewhere in the Highlands and their city folk family came to visit and I was the slightly cynical, sneery cousin. You really want the plot of this?

I'm really going into it. No, not the whole thing. But I mean, do you remember thinking at the time, this is me now? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I was 16 and I had decided that this is what I wanted to do with my life. And my parents gave up trying to put up any resistance. And instead, my dad went, well, let's be practical about this.

And he took some photographs of me in the back garden and sent them into Scottish television. And by, of course, at the time, this just felt like this is what happened. But by some, I now know how unlikely this is. They landed on the desk of a producer director called Haldane Duncan who happened to be looking for a teenage boy to do this. Don't those sliding doors moments haunt you? I know, yeah.

Because what if it hadn't been the right day? Well quite, I mean there's no reason why it should have been and by chance I got that and then that same year I went to drama school and that was it, yeah. But lots of people go to drama school and then drive around doing Brecht productions.

By the way, I love the way I pretended I knew what that Brecht play was. You did, yeah. Well, did I? I was very convinced. Did I, though, David? Then fine. We'll leave it in because it made me sound highly intelligent. It really did.

I'm sure you know all about your Bertolt Brecht. Yeah, I've certainly seen one or two. It's a parable about the rise of Hitler. That's right, yeah. You knew that. I think it's coming back to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there must have been loads of people

at your drama school who just have never made a living out of acting. It's a tough industry. It is tough. Yes, that's certainly true. And yes, and that was my aspiration, really. I just wanted to make it, because everyone tells you

you won't make a living at it. I didn't know, we didn't know actors. There weren't precedents in our life growing up. But the received wisdom is actors don't make a living. It's not a proper job. It's not a career. It's not, you won't live happily ever after. So all I wanted was to prove them wrong, I suppose.

I just wanted to be able to live off it. So touring around a van doing a break play was absolutely, that was all I needed to do. And now there are articles saying things like, with headlines like, why is David Tennant always on my television? I mean, one of the reasons is you're rather good at acting, so maybe that is one of the reasons why you're always on our telly. But the stuff you've done with Michael Sheen has,

in fact, we interviewed Ruth Jones last week. Oh, yes. And Ruth is obviously the Welsh connection to Michael. And we were talking about Staged, and I'm afraid, this is the show that you do with Michael Sheen. Indeed, which started during lockdown, yeah. And I'm afraid I described it as insufferable. Not because I didn't find it funny,

but because your actorial personas... Oh, are very insufferable, yes. Yes, exactly. We invite you to laugh at us, though, rather than be infuriated by us, I hope. Do you think you are the more thespian of the two of you, or do you think Michael out-thesp's you? In real life?

In real life, please. Oh, he's much more of a thespian than I am. Definitely. I mean, he's not here to defend himself, so I can get away with that. How does that manifest itself? I don't really know. I don't know that I can entirely back my argument up.

I just feel like I should slag him off as he's not here. I don't know. I mean, I think both of us are relatively normal, actually. And we're both sort of, I think that's probably

why we get on. I think there's, I don't know that either of us are wildly, well, it depends how one is defining the word thespian. I feel like that word

comes with a certain pejorative assumptions about it that aren't necessarily positive. Okay, you might be right, so we'll move on. You actually had trouble getting into the building because there were some schoolchildren coming in at the same time. Now, if they had caught a glimpse of you, I suspect there would have been mayhem,

so there was a slight delay. Is this the Doctor Who problem problem which does linger and you're about that there are new episodes featuring you which are about to be shown yes in the in the winter that's right yes um i know it's a huge part of your life but it can be the whole doctor who thing it's quite a responsibility being involved in it it casts a long shadow for sure um but the positives definitely outweigh the negatives it it takes on a slightly different shape, your life, when you're associated with something like that. And it's an absolute privilege.

But it does mean you lose a level of anonymity, for sure. And I remember Doctor Who back in the 70s when it, let's be honest, it did look as though it was made on a budget of about £17.90. Yes. Yes. I mean... Things have changed, haven't they? Things have changed.

Our expectations have changed. I mean, as a kid, I was... I thought that was the greatest television there had ever been. I mean, it was. It was a brilliant show. I mean, yes, it was probably a little bit... The budget was a bit smaller than it is now but that was partly to do with the nature of television at the time and but it didn't get in

the way of it being magical stuff i'm trying to work out who your doctor would have been it was it was tom baker into peter davidson yeah okay that was my era right and they were both well who was the most popular of those two with the Doctor Whoites? I can't remember. Well, Tom Baker did it for seven years. Oh, it must be him, surely. And the long scarf tends to be quite a sort of an iconic reference even now. But Peter's time on it was just as popular in terms of viewing figures and all that.

That's when it was really at its zenith. So what can you tell us about what's going to happen in November? I can tell you that I'm in it. I can tell you that Catherine Tate is back as well. And she's your companion? Well, as you'll remember, Jane, when we last saw the Doctor and Donna Noble together, if she were ever to remember who the Doctor was,

her brain would melt. I don't, I mean, I'm filling the listeners in because I know you've got that. So that's the dilemma we're stuck with. It's not giving too much away to say these characters are going to bump into each other again, but there's some stuff that we've got to deal with there. I'm talking to the actor David Tennant.

He's been in loads of award-winning TV. One part, though, he's particularly proud of playing is the dad in the BBC comedy drama There She Goes, where his character's daughter has a learning disability. And he told us where the idea came from. It's based on the very real life experience of Sean and Sarah that are writers. They have a daughter with a well up to now undiagnosed chromosomal disorder the latest episode is sort of telling

the story of them getting a diagnosis and whether that what that changes and what that doesn't change and what that does to your life because she's severely disabled and needs one to one care all the time and they love her deeply

but obviously that's very challenging and what they've done we did two series in this final special is they write very candidly about it they don't hold back so at times it's deeply politically incorrect at times it's very distressing there are also moments of great beauty and love,

but they are unflinching about what it is to have those challenges in your life and to confront the idea that this is not, this is not what we're told parenthood is going to be. This is not what we aspire to when we see the line on the pregnancy stick. It's really awkward as a viewer. It's good actually as a viewer to be's good, actually, as a viewer,

to be made awkward occasionally by television, particularly comedy. And there are a couple of lines, as you say, in that one-hour special that was on a couple of weeks ago and still on the iPlayer. The whole series is on the iPlayer, by the way. Yeah, that's right. Sorry. Glad you made that point.

Where I did flinch and think, oh, no, no, I shouldn't laugh at that. That's just too bleak. And that's very much that i mean that's the the sort of tightrope that they live their life on and sean is a comedy writer that's how i first met him he writes on shows like have i got news for you and and he's also a performer as well um uh and uh but so that's how they see they see life through that prism i suppose and that's the only way they can tell their story

because it's bleakly comic as their life is. And their life with their daughter, Joey, is a rollercoaster from moment to moment. And I think it's one of the things I'm most proud I've ever done. There she goes. It's just, it's honesty. And yes, like yourself I have no lived experience of that particular

type of parenting but I think as a parent it feels so relatable because you cast yourself in that role and you think what would that mean for my family how would I accept that, what would I would I react like Sean did, like my character Simon did

and you know, retreat to a near sort of alcoholic collapse at some point? Well, that is in the first series. I think your character is spending a suspicious amount of time in the pub. And Jessica Hines, who plays the mum, who's a brilliant actress, but she is left to deal. Was that the case in the writers' lives, do you know? So it's really honest.

It's really just their life. Yeah, they've just changed the names and wrote it down. And it's that absolutely unflinching honesty about it that I think makes it such a brilliant series, such an important series as well. It's meant so much, I know know to families who have children in those in that kind of spectrum of need and

because it's so rarely portrayed at all and when it is portrayed it tends to be rather sentimentally rather sort of ripple dissolve and they all lived happily ever after and of course it's not, it's much more complicated than that, it doesn't mean that there's not huge joy and huge triumphs and wonderful moments happily ever after. And of course it's not, it's much more complicated than that. It doesn't mean that there's not huge joy

and huge triumphs and wonderful moments. Well, you can say all that and I can say all that because we're not in that position, are we? But that's how they would describe it themselves. But they would also say there are these wonderful things, but there's also a lot of it is rubbish and a lot of it is really tough. And this is not the life I signed up for.

And here I am. And it's, i think what they did in in in writing that so beautifully was it was really really important really special so if you had to choose between i don't know a time traveling individual or one of your more gritty roles uh broad church i suppose is another one that people obviously will know what would you pick? Oh, don't make me do that it's lovely to have that variety what a treat

you know it's such a they're such different flavours and they're such to be able to tell those different types of stories to different types of audiences or even the same audiences, it's a real privilege.

It's not, you know. Well, you're also coming up in the new Julie Cooper. Yes. Is it Rivals? Rivals, yes. Rivals, not Riders. It's Rivals. It's the second novel.

Yeah. I mean, I had definitely, perhaps I'm more familiar with Julie's works than Bertolt's. Than Brecht. If I'm honest. I've definitely read this. And you are the, from memory, the very rather seedy, am I right, head of a local TV company?

Yes, Tony Battingham, Lord Battingham, in fact. He's, I suppose he's the villain of the piece in some ways. Yes, he's pretty unscrupulous, at times rather Machiavellian, eaten up with a little bit of class envy and they're all in the courts walls behaving despicably. Yes, I must admit, I can't be the only person who can't wait for this. Do you get any, what do the tabloids call them, romp scenes?

It's a Jilly Cooper adaptation. Everyone's romping furiously. That's, but what's great, because it's now... Hang on, you haven't answered the question. Have you got some romping scenes? What do you mean? Do I, have I been dealing with an intimacy coordinator? Your fans will want to know.

I don't think there's a character who doesn't in this story. Okay. So it's, you know, these books, well, I mean, she's still, she's still working. She's about to publish

a new novel called Tackle about a football team. This is about football, isn't it? Yeah. But this was written, you know,

back in the mid 80s. So it's now a period piece. It's, you know, it's akin to doing a sort of Dickens or something. You know, you have to approach it

with that level of recreating the moment that it was in, which of course brings to life all life all the sort of politics with the actual politics and also the sort of sexual politics of the time. We now see that with this objectivity, which makes it a fascinating thing to be doing. I hadn't thought of it that way. So it's still set in the 80s. Oh, absolutely.

Oh, absolutely. thing to be to be doing i've thought of it that way so it's it's still set in the 80s oh absolutely oh absolutely yeah yeah so the intimacy uh coaches i mean but back when you started they were well they just did not no it's an addition to our industry and is it the right thing to of course it is of course it is yeah i mean it's it's a it's an industry that's funny i think we have a fantastic one on our show um she's she is the right balance of respectfulness and sense of humour, which is, because it's a tricky, weird thing to do, isn't it? You're having to recreate something that, you know, is the most intimate of moments. That's a very private, personal thing.

And you're having to make it safe and you're having to make sure everyone is respected. And at the same time, you're having to make it look real and make it look a bit sexy and a bit whatever the scene needs to be perhaps violent perhaps it's about abuse there are all sorts of reasons for telling

those parts of that story but to have someone whose job it is to make sure everyone's safe, everyone's covered and that means from every aspect of production, nobody is... Everyone feels comfortable with something that is a bit uncomfortable

and that's really important. So you never get over the oddness of doing that? No, of course you don't. Of course you don't. I mean, you're having to sort of be in states of undress in front of... I mean, they're not necessarily strangers, the crew you're working with every day, but that in itself is rather odd. How many people are in these rooms apart from...

With a scene like that, you'll try and have a closed set which means it will be a bare minimum of crew and that the monitors that are often linked up throughout wherever the production base is will be closed down to just the absolute essential crew. So hopefully you'll get it down to a sort of handful.

Again, just to make it a little bit less awkward and embarrassing and difficult and so that nobody feels like their work is being abused for the wrong reasons. You're 52. I couldn't believe that actually, David. I'm going to just say that. It's very true. Unfortunately, it's incontrovertible. Yeah, but how

do you do it? People will want to know whether you exfoliate, whether there's a moisture... Well, I'm actually deadly serious here. I don't know that I do anything particularly... Is it in your jeans? I mean, listen, I'm in the middle of a press tour at the moment,

so there's somebody outside painting my face and making me look much healthier than I really am. So it's all smoke and mirrors, isn't it? I don't know. How do you do it? I'm 75, and I don't... Oh, you are never 75. I am, and it's amazing.

That's nonsense. I know, it's incredible. I've never smoked, and I have a very, very clean living lifestyle. You are never 75. I am. I know, it's amazing. That's nonsense. I know, it's incredible. I've never smoked and I have a very, very clean living lifestyle. You are not 75. No, no, I'm not, David. Right, okay. Thank you. Stop it.

We'll leave it there. Thank you very much. How old are you? 59. Oh, dear. You should have all... Gosh, he's not... David Tennant, struggling there to come up with a response

to my assertion that I was 75. But as I said already, it's the fact that my colleagues didn't rush to sort of be amazed. In fact, they seemed to be perfectly accepting of the notion that I might actually be 16 years older than I really am. I really enjoyed the discussion of rivals, which I'm very excited about. So you were away, I think, a couple of weeks ago when we had Aidan Turner, his co-starring rivals,

on the cover of the magazine. I'll get you a back copy. It's a good picture, Jane. Do you know what? He's properly handsome. Oh, he's properly handsome. So he's playing Declan O'Hara. He's one or the other. He's the one who's not Rupert Campbell Black. So there's basically three main men in rivals. There's Tony Battingham, Declan O'Hara and Rupert Campbell Black. Aidan Turner said in this interview that there is so much sex

that they've got two intimacy coordinators on set. They've had to double up. I know. I can't wait. It's interesting, isn't it? Because this is, is it for ITV, this? Do we know? I don't know yet, actually. It might be for ITV, actually, yeah. I'm just trying to work out how, if it is indeed the romp-a-thon

we're all promised, how they're going to get away with this. Nine o'clock on a weekday night? Is that, I don't know. I mean, I hope it's... I really want this to be scheduled in winter. I can't, because I want people to, you know, bed down on the sofa with their little blankie

and treat themselves to a bit of Jilly Cooper. I also can't believe, I mean, Jilly Cooper is hugely talented and one of the books I often go back to just for a bit of comfort reading is a book called Class or Class. Have you read that? Class.

Because it's so clever and so much of it is still absolutely true. So she's a genius. But I'm slightly puzzled by how much she knows about football because I gather her new novel Tackle is about professional football. The polo field, yes. Even local TV company boardrooms, yes. Maybe she's been hanging out in the changing rooms at the Arsenal. I mean, maybe.

I can't see it. I can't see it. But who knows? Who knows? Do you know what? I'm sure she'll put her Jilly Cooper spin on it and we won't care. You might care a little bit about a couple of inaccuracies. Yes, obviously. Well, that's not

actually how the offside rule works. Maybe you should offer to be an advanced reader for her. I would. I would definitely. Give her a few tips. There's very little I wouldn't give to get my hands on a preview copy of Tackle. Okay, so that's my job for tomorrow. See what you can do. Is it round and about? Oh, no. Not yet. Oh, no, not yet. Okay.

But I'll let you know. Well, tomorrow you will get discerning listener to offer a brief review of Aspects of Love and just think how wonderful that's going to be and how it's going to enhance your life. Have a good evening, Jane. May nothing untoward occur to you in Las Vegas in the foreseeable future.

You enjoy London's own Las Vegas and the West End. We're bringing The Shutters down on another episode of the internationally acclaimed podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe. But don't forget that you can get another two hours of us every Monday to Thursday afternoon here on Times Radio.

We start at 3 p.m. and you can listen for free on your smart speaker. Just shout Play Times Radio at it. You can also get us on DAB Radio in the car or on the Times Radio app whilst you're out and about being extremely busy. And you can follow all our tosh behind the mic and elsewhere on our Instagram account. Just go onto Insta and search for Jane and Fee and give us a follow. So in other words, we're everywhere, aren't we, Jane? Pretty much everywhere.

Thank you for joining us. And we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon.