Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Beat me on the bottom with a Woman's Weekly (with Alex Jones)

Episode Date: May 1, 2023

Jane and Fi are full of coronation chicken sandwiches and ready to talk about everything from nuclear war to safe sex. They're joined by The One Show presenter Alex Jones, to hear about her new show Reunion Hotel. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Assistant Producer: Kate Lee Times Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. So I've definitely, what is it, it's Monday about three minutes past five. In the last hour, I've eaten two and a half different Coronation chicken sandwiches

from various high street retailers. The quite solid chocolatey end of a, what do they call it? Coronation Colin. Coronation Colin. And I feel a little bit greasy. Yes. Yeah, I agree. Do you think we need to explain what Coronation chicken is

to people listening outside this United Kingdom? That's a good idea. Yeah, but I'll ask you the question. What's Coronation chicken is to people listening outside this united what's a good idea yeah i'll ask you the question what's coronation chicken jane well uh it was a recipe conjured up to mark uh the late queen's coronation 70 years ago and it is basically a very very mild um chicken curry cold it's it's in it's your chicken in a curried mayonnaise, isn't it? Yeah, basically. Isn't it yogurt, curry powder, a bit of lemon juice and some cooked chicken?

Isn't that it? Yeah, and some mayonnaise or oil because it's quite a greasy lump. It's not just yogurt. Yeah, it's not just yogurt. I think you could probably make a healthier version. And then I think you put a bit of mango chutney in and some people put raisins in.

Some people put sultanas, I think. Oh, I don't like that. No. And it's quite a hit and it's in a sort of retro frame of mind. People are bringing it back at the moment and sticking it in sandwiches and we're all just having a combination moment. Of course, I say that as though everybody is en fait for the big event

and whilst there is a degree of interest and I sense the interest is growing, it would be inaccurate to say that people can talk of nothing else. Jane, it would be a gross exaggeration to say people can talk of nothing else. And I think quite a lot of people are struggling to find other things to talk about once within the subject matter of the coronation. So it will be a very important ceremony, and we're going to be kind of quasi-commentating on it, aren't we? We've got a show going out on Saturday,

so it will mean something when we're there. And I'm sure lots of people will get lost in the actual splendour of it when it's happening. I think splendour is the right word, you know, because I think there will be an amazing amount of pageantry and I think the music is genuinely going to be quite brilliant and I'm really looking forward to that. And let's be honest, it's a showcase for some brilliant British talent,

so let's hope there's lots of that on display. And the bits I've heard about who's going to take part and they very welcome diversity. I think that's good. And I think people might feel on the day that it actually means more to them than they might have been expecting. Yeah, I could be wrong, though, and people might, you know, be bored stiff or just not bother with it, which, of course, is one of the great things about living in what passes for a functioning democracy. You can get involved. You don't have to.

You don't have to. Which is why I thought over the weekend, I thought this, you can swear your loyalty to the king on the sofa was a bit of an odd move. So you definitely, especially for our listeners outside of the United Kingdom, you need to explain the oath of allegiance and what we've been asked to do. Yes. Well, it's not, you're not asked to do. We need to make this very clear. You are welcome to do it if you want to, from the comfort of your own sofa, as you chomp your way through a substantial tube of Pringles and drink some Prosecco, if you're lucky enough, and enjoy the ceremonials on the box. At one point during the service, after the king has pledged his life of service to the nation, those of us more humble than him are welcome, at that point, if

we wish to, to say the following words. God save King Charles, may the king live forever. No, no, not quite. No, there's a bit more to it. That's the bit at the end. You do have to swear something, don't you?

Yes, here goes. I swear that I will pay true allegiance to your majesty and to your heirs and successors according to law, so help me God. God save King Charles. May the king live forever. That is what you are invited to do. You don't have to. So there's not going to be

sending somebody around from the council to watch you and your family do it. But don't worry about it. I think we live in confusing times because you cannot sing along to Mamma Mia, but you can stand up in your own sitting room and swear an oath of allegiance. I don't know what to make of that. What do you mean you can't sing along to Mamma Mia? Well, you get too turfed out, don't you? Oh, if you go to the show? Yes. So there's audience participation very, very welcome in some circles, but very, very unwelcome in others across the country at the moment.

I'm sure people to whom it means something will really enjoy being able to do that, Jane. And like you say, if you don't want to do it, you really don't have to. So we'll all be fine. I'm going to be making a quiche. I don't really understand why the Coronation quiche hasn't taken off i don't know why we're backtracking into coronation chicken i don't understand that at all i think it's because the coronation quiche is tarragon broad bean and spinach which i'm gonna say is um it's all a bit 21st century

well i think it sounds gorgeous. I don't. I don't think it does sound gorgeous. Well, I'm making one for you on Saturday. So I think you'll like it. You'll definitely be trying it. That will be compulsory. You don't know until you've tried it. Yeah.

You know those older couples where the chap looks at something and the wife says, no, you don't like that, Ron. He says, do I like it? And she says, no, you don't like that ron he says do i like it and she says no you don't like that ron do i like it no all that all that that chain will be us on saturday yep okay shall we just uh pause a bit on coronation fever and maybe place it on hold until we've actually been to it and we can come back and report on it. Well, I don't know about that because as the week progresses, the excitement's going to mount, isn't it? Listeners, I tried. So, we did a very interesting interview today,

which is going to go out tomorrow. Is that right? Yes, that's Julie McDowell. Yes. If you're not in the mood to celebrate, Julie's your woman. Do you want to just explain what Julie's main thesis is? Well, Julie is the author of a fascinating slice of social history. It's called Attack Warning Red, And it is about the preparations that Britain

made for nuclear war during the 1980s. And some of it is hilarious because it's ludicrous. I mean, it includes nuggets like they're going to empty all the prisons because obviously, you know, there's nothing you can do for prisons. Plus, being in prison might be quite an attractive option because they'd have to feed you and you're quite well protected behind quite thick walls. So the idea was they were seriously worried that people would be trying to get into prisons. So they were going to release everybody from them. And there's a lovely little bit in Julie's book saying that psychopaths may be useful post-apocalyptically because they tend to have some good ideas. The whole thing is just so bizarre.

It is bizarre, but it's also deeply troubling. And as Julie says, she has slightly, oddly, you might say, dedicated most of her working life to what nuclear war would actually mean. And as she says, the only thing that you can do is just make every effort to ensure that it never happens because to be purely practical about it Britain is too small a country to withstand any sort of nuclear attack fun time Jane is in the building everybody right so that's tomorrow that's tomorrow but I wanted to mention it because it's where our conversation about doom-laden, doomsday thoughts came from, isn't it?

So there's all of that to look forward to. But Marina has been in touch because she wanted to talk about the end of the world. I'm 59 and remember clearly walking down my local high street, which was Rye Lane in Peckham, in about 1970, aged about seven, with my recently acquired reading skills and seeing a poster in a window of the Hallmark card shop, which sent chills down my little spine. It was a Snoopy poster and declared very loudly to this small, frightened child, don't worry, the world can't end today, as it's already tomorrow for someone else in the world. I remember being so

reassured and relieved by Snoopy's announcement and an immediate sense of calm prevailed. It is however an indication of the ever persistent fear that was all around us at that time that even a little working class girl from Peckham was spending time thinking about this and I suppose what fascinates me about the end of the world thing, which was revealed really with our conversation with Julie, which you'll hear tomorrow, is why it just affected some people so much more than others. And quite a few correspondents have been in touch to say it is about the age thing. Those five years that are between us seem to separate a mindset, actually. And by the time I got to be a more cognizant teenager,

that really apocalyptic sense of what nuclear war could do might have not passed, because it still hasn't passed to this day, but might not have appeared on the horizon so violently. And I suppose that might be the case. But I'd be quite interested to hear from other youthful 54-year-olds whether maybe it's just a psychological thing. Actually, you asked, Julia, a really interesting question about why young people, if they are invested in politics or political protest,

these days it's about the environment. And we talk about that in the interview. I think that was really interesting. So I hope people get to hear that tomorrow. And I know it doesn't sound the most inviting topic, but by God, it's important. It's very interesting. And it really was interesting.

And I know coronations are not to everybody's liking. So that's certainly, we try to offer an alternative on this show. And I think tomorrow, well, it's a change of mood. today it's alex jones from the one show can i just add because marina's other uh part of her email is just about moving away from home which we were talking about i think in brief on one of the earlier episodes last week and she has ended up from peckham going to the northern beaches of sydney where she's lived for almost 25 years and she says I often ponder the enormous difference between my slightly bleak grey always raining lack of nature where are all the trees environment of my childhood and the extraordinary beauty and

privilege of living in the northern beaches. She sent a picture didn't she? Yeah and it just looks it looks beautiful. Amazing so i think you were saying that you would never really consider moving abroad and i'm always i find it really fascinating and just incredibly heartening that people can up sticks and have a whole life somewhere else as some of my childhood was spent abroad with a parent who lived in a different country. And so I can't do that now. I feel that I've done that in my time. I can't go and live abroad again.

I wouldn't want to. But I always find it rather magnificent that people do still head off. Well, actually, that reminds me, because we were having a conversation on the radio show today with John Boothman, who's the Times' man in Scotland, and he was talking about Donald Trump's visit to Scotland. And we were talking to John about the incredible life story of Donald Trump's mother. Who never gets a look in. She never gets a look in. And I don't know what is wrong with you Scots. You've got a half Scottish American president to your name. Doesn't crop up much, does it? I mean, we understand why really, by the way. But I mean, I didn't know she was the youngest of ten children,

spoke Gaelic, is that right? Yeah, but it's an extraordinary tale. What a tale. How brave must she have been? I mean, let's face it, Mary McLeod, we'd rather you'd stayed. But as it happened, you went to America, met some bloke called Fred Trump, and thanks! But what a story.

I mean, someone's got to make a film of that, haven't they, at some point? God, happy or sad ending, Jane? Which way are you heading with that? Oh, I don't know. So if you were to take the kind of the stereotypical image of the doughty Scottish woman, it would be one of determination, inner strength. That's right. Perspicacity. Yeah. Taking no prisoners, truthfulness. And I just paused there.

Well, usually sometimes it skips a generation, doesn't it? Yeah, I wonder what she thinks. Looking down. No, but looking down. Oh, yes, looking down. Sorry. Looking down. And this is from Anonymous.

I took my daughter 20... Although this is a quandary, I have to say, although I don't think it's difficult to know where we stand. I took my daughter 20 months to a church playgroup. We've been to the group before, but this time the lady who usually runs it wasn't there and the vicar was covering for her. I was chatting to the vicar

and he was standing very close to me. Too close. I kept inching backwards, he kept moving forwards. I was then helping make the cup of teas, and he squeezed past me and put his hands on my hips. He did this three times. It made me feel really uncomfortable, but I didn't say anything. I've since felt quite uneasy and also angry. I mentioned it to a couple of people who agreed it was off, but then said, he's a vicar, so what can you do? This also made me angry as I felt a bit unsupported and it kind of got laughed off. Things like this have happened to me in the past

and I've always thought it's just one of those things, but now I feel I'm at an age and we are in a time where we don't have to put up with that. What do you think? Call it out. Yeah, I mean, you've got to. That's wrong. He shouldn't do it. It's it's really invasive to do that to somebody. And as you say, he did it three times once. I mean, we've all had the occasional incident where we've brushed up against somebody. I mean, I guess it happens, but there are ways to stop it happening. And

I think that by the third time, I mean, I know the Lord moves in mysterious ways, but this is getting ridiculous. You know, I mean, no, if you have the strength and I appreciate it's not easy. Next time, if there is a next time, just say, listen, Reverend, stop it. Yeah. Keep your hands to yourself. Yeah yourself yeah in that moment would you be brave enough to just turn around say that makes me uncomfortable it's a really difficult one and i'd love to say that i've always been someone who'd call out that sort of thing but i'm afraid i haven't yeah so i'm not in any way um if our correspondent feels that she just can't call it out well all i'll say about that is i've been there. So she has my sympathy.

But honestly, it shouldn't be happening. And somebody in a position like that, I mean, it's basic. Well, it doesn't really matter who you are, but honestly, please. And also, and we can cut this out of the podcast if you would rather, but I know from one of the incidents that i know you have put up with that is still praise on your mind years and years and years later yeah so in the moment you think oh that's making me really uncomfortable whatever i can't deal with it whatever but it stays with you stays but it doesn't leave you it doesn't because you feel powerless yeah because you are uh unless you call it out but if you call

it out it's it's a risk you're taking a risk and you're sticking it so to our correspondent i feel very sorry for you i wish it hadn't happened but i don't blame you remotely if this is where it ends but i just hope you feel better for having it sort of off your chest. Yeah, I hope so too. Do you want a serious one from Julia, who wants to join in the discussion we were having about choking and submission and sex? Oh, yeah, I thought this was really interesting. Oh, it's really... And I think she's really nailed something here.

So here goes. Just listen to The Pub with Lorraine and following episode. And as a slightly younger listener, I'm 28, I wanted to share my own experiences and thoughts regarding choking in sex. First, I love Jane's comment about treating the podcast as a safe space and somewhere to make mistakes. Sometimes I strongly believe creating these spaces is the most important thing we can do at the moment to nurture a more joined-up dialogue and ultimately move forward together despite the algorithms working against us.

Accusing anybody of kink-shaming isn't helpful and prevents others from entering dialogues and supporting movement. I've been choked by a partner on a few occasions, but I've never felt unsafe, as it's always followed by a discussion with said partner about our sexual boundaries the same way as we enjoy theme park rides and horror films i think it's understandable to enjoy tricking your brain that you're in danger without there actually being violence

that said i do find it disturbing that the majority of preferences in straight sex both from women and men seem to most commonly revolve around female submission. My personal theory is that we are in the interim of moving into a society with male-female parity in equal pay, labour and childcare, and are using sex to explore dynamics which feel familiar to us that we don't want to practice in our day-to-day lives. Just another example of our biology catching up with our culture in short. I was just looking at that as you read it out and initially, so

perhaps I've misread this, but our correspondent says that the occasions on which she's been choked by a partner consensually, that happened after they discussed it. Is that right? No, it's the other way around. I've never felt unsafe because it's always followed by a discussion. So the choking happens. Yeah. And then they talk about it.

Well, I guess that's the bit I'm puzzled by. Well. Because I'm not going to pretend that I would ever want that to happen to me and so that's the I mean I'm not sure it's quite I don't know what do you think so I think you've really nailed something there Julia about why I mean aside aside from copying the imagery of pornography, of why it might be so prevalent, and I think sexual relationships between people have often been a place where stuff that you can't talk about is expressed. I mean, that's one of the points of sex.

It's a different language altogether. So I get that that may be where cultural differences and movements or trends or whatever might be being explored. But I still can't get away from finding that troubling. because also for every person who can go on and have a really good discussion with their partner about what happens in bed i suspect that there are a lot of people who can't so if you can't explain what it is that's happening and what the boundaries are and why you're doing things i think for some people that is immensely problematic and a little bit dangerous. I've read it again now. Yes, okay.

And I think she does mean that they talked about it before they did it. I have been choked by a partner on a few occasions, but have never felt unsafe as this always followed a discussion. Oh, okay. Well, whichever way round it is, does it make a huge amount of difference? OK. Well, whichever way round it is, does it make a huge amount of difference? Well, if our correspondent wanted it to happen or felt that it was within her boundaries... Yes, that's better than not. Absolutely. But the very... I suppose the bit that I certainly can't understand is why she'd want it in the first place.

Yeah. I mean, I'm'm not i can't but do you understand the point that if it's about something that's out there in the ether about the changing roles of men and women in society about where the power balance lies and everything is really okay within that partnership is that an acceptable thing you know the only thing that's in my mind now is Victoria Wood and that song about beat me on the bottom of the woman's weekly. Which is not the same, Jane.

That's exactly, that's suddenly what came into my mind. God, I don't know. Now I understand that what the emailer means is that nothing happened without them discussing it first. Oh, and I'm sure that that's different. Yeah, slightly different.

It still wouldn't be something that I'd ever want. And I suppose I'm worried about where the notion comes from in the first place. And you're right, it's a pornography thing. Yeah. Which isn't to say it never happened before. I'm sure it did. But anyway, look, I... God, it's...

Do you think it's just one of those things that you and I will just have to always remain bewildered by? Well, quite possibly. Along with, it has to be said, quite a lot else. So much else. But then some other things do become clearer the more you talk about them, don't they? Well, that's true.

I mean, not entirely unconnected, but there's a little letter in The Times today. You know, the trouble at the CBI, that's the Confederation of British Industry for people outside this country, has got into lately around some really awful allegations of sexual violence and sexism within this organisation that's basically just about promoting the interests

of British business. I always thought of it as a rather benign organisation if I thought about it at all. And you didn't think about it at all? Is that what you're saying? No. No, you carry on because you've got a more important point to make. No, I mean, it's lately been riddled

with all sorts of suggestions of sexism at the CBI. And there's a letter in the Times today from a lady called Brenda in Essex. When I worked in the city as a secretary, if I was told a dress suited my figure, I'd have graciously taken it as a compliment. And that's it. And that, everybody, is the old days, the way things used to be. And there are still women, I don't think that lady Brenda is alone, who just think, oh, there's nothing wrong. I mean, I've interviewed women who say, well, in the old days, people used to pinch your bottom by the photocopier it was just a bit of fun well i mean

that gives full license to our vicar doesn't it at the play group it's you know it's it's extraordinary how there are still people women not just people women willing to defend or attempt to explain away that bizarre sort of behaviour. So I think that is exactly my worry about new sexual practices. For every decent man who understands the boundaries, I think there is, and well, the evidence is just there, not tarring all men with the same brush here, but rough sex going wrong or being used as some kind of a defence in appalling cases where men have made an assumption about how they can behave with women.

That's my that's exactly my problem. That is the very, very thick end of that thin end. thin ends that starts with and also i'm going to say that brenda experiencing a slight thrill at somebody complimenting the way a dress looked on her figure can any woman honestly say they've never felt that thrill honestly no but i'm sure they i'm sure they can't what a confusing place the world is and i think what we've managed to do is contrive to make it a lot more confusing. No, but the point about the thrill thing is it's just not appropriate at work. That's what so many women are now able to say. Yes, of course it's not appropriate at work. I mean, you've got, yes, you've got awful things going on

and you've got handsy vicars and you've got people who, you know, it's just, oh, it's, yeah, honestly, I don't know why, I don't know how any of us get out of the house in the morning well what with that and nuclear annihilation exactly uh shall we just talk to alex jones no wonder we're at our happiest chatting to alex from the one show and we were very happy weren't we? She came in to see us. She was great, actually. She's got a new show out. It's available on the Player of Eye, and it's called Reunion Hotel, and it does exactly what it says on the tin,

and it brings people together, and that can be everybody from the man who saved a woman who'd fallen onto the tracks of a tube station, which is a remarkable story, to finding a long-lost adopted brother. And all of these moments are filmed under what I think, and I know that you agree, is the very kind gaze and warm heart of Alex Jones. She's just really good at her job, isn't it?

Which is putting people at their ease. Well, she is one of those effortless, it looks like it might be fun to be with her type of TV presenter. Yeah. And if her demeanour when she came in here is anything to go by, that is what she's like. She popped in to see us to tell us all about that.

We talked about lots of things, though, from her non-presence on Twitter to the sometimes very odd juxtaposition of stories on the one show. Ooh, singing seals. And we started by asking her what she had been up to that day. I've been in the soft play,

as per usual. You lucky devil. This is my Monday morning, you see. It's like I flip between motherhood and, you know, trying to be a professional all in the same day. But I'm sure you're a professional mother as well. Are you a good active player in the soft play zone?

I mean, I get in, if that's what you mean. That's what I'm asking. Yeah, I'm in the balls, I'm through the tunnels, you know. But ideally, I'd like to sip a coffee on the side and be more spectator. But the age of the child doesn't allow that quite yet. Now, your youngest is, we've just established actually, 19 months. Yes. So realistically, your last visit to such a facility will be in two years' time?

I think this is a very mean line of question it's just quite fun looking back hang on let's let's think now oh gosh i think you're right and i've been there for six years already wow yeah it is quite strange actually isn't it the amount of time that you spend in playgrounds how grateful you are for the playground at the beginning of the childhood experience and how how grateful you are for the playground at the beginning of the childhood experience and how incredibly grateful you are to see the back of it about is it a bit sad though is it a bit sad you know what is sad and i think we've already talked about this but the last time your child willingly holds your hand in public oh don't i have nightmares

about that already it's it's it's sad it is sad and it never is not going to come back and you know it's that thing isn't it when you don't know when will be the last time yes and that's true for everything in life it is true but if we did know i think we'd just find it incredibly difficult to cope with it wouldn't we wouldn't we try and put it off and and yeah put it off it would be overwhelming i mean teddy, I'd be like, give me your hand, Ted. Give me your hand. Yeah. You look very, very well on it. Oh, gosh.

How are you managing to, and this is an absolute, I would like to think, classic kind of one-show link. How are you managing to look so well whilst dealing with extreme motherhood and also filming your new show, Alex? Oh, gosh, that's brilliant. See, you say that, and this is the truth about that. And my mother can be, and she won't mind me saying, quite passive-aggressive. It's a typical Welsh mother trait, to be honest. Was that mine? I'm so sorry if it was.

Do check it, because it's bound to be something more important than this. It'll be something like my husband asking what he should buy from Sainsbury's. Oh, well, we could help him with that. Let me see. Let's have a look. Let me see. I'm so sorry. Oh, well, we could help him with that. Let me see. Let's have a look. Let me see. Oh, gosh. It's not mine.

I don't think it is mine, is it? It's not mine. I haven't got mine with me. There's sunglasses. Everything comes out this pocket. Dummies. It might be mine. Oh, it's my friend, Michelle.

How is she? She's in soft play now. There you go. Nothing to report. Just normal. She's hovering by the overflowing nappy bin. Just a little cry for help. The new show.

Reunion Hotel. So we filmed it last summer and I absolutely loved it because it's got beautiful stories, which I'm sure we'll get into in a second. But all I can see when I look at it is terrible hair. And my mother said oh it's a shame you didn't think to do your hair before you started filming amazing what's wrong with your hair well it needs a color i mean that's basically that's what she said it needs a bit of color in it do you know i think

the issue with with mothers and their daughters appearances is usually that they feel, we make them feel older than they want to feel. I think you're right. If we're displaying any signs of ageing ourselves. Completely. And I said, ma'am, Annie was a tiny baby. Without going into it, Charlie was not very well at the time, my husband. There were another two children and a full-time job. And she went, I know, but still, sometimes you just sometimes you just need to prioritize well i thought your hair looked lovely and because

you've done that clever thing where it's curly but not too curly i thought your outfits were very nice as well i was going to ask you about the green dress oh the green dress well frankly i want to burn that green dress because i see i've gone off fix i wore it so much but it is it is a pretty color isn't it for summer yeah summer? Yeah. So it's very nice. It's very flattering. You can have it. No. Well, I think you're a slightly different size to me. But yes, if I want to look like I've got drunk in the dressing up box, that would be my go to. Wouldn't be the first time, would it? What's nice? Can I just say this is a genuinely life enhancing show, isn't it? And there aren't that many of them on television.

life-enhancing show isn't it and there aren't that many of them on television it's very watchable and it contains a range of experiences some of which are really you know the things that you really would hope would never happen to anyone you cared about and others that frankly we've we've all done i mean there's there are examples of just old friends having just slightly lost each other in the course of life and then you managed to bring them together again and i think almost everyone's had one of those experiences i think so i mean the stories well as you said you know it is sort of it does i don't know remind you that there is a lot of kindness out there a lot of good and there are fewer and fewer programs actually that you can watch and genuinely have a little warm feeling at the end of it which is really what we all want when we watch tv um so it's like it's like a warm hug really isn't it um and as you say stories that are reconnecting

you know friends there were these um women on last week and they'd been to the they were the first group of women to get to the antarctic yeah and it was an incredible story but really it was the challenge aside it was about how people just go through something mega together and then lose connection. And, you know, for no reason, really. But they just lost each other somehow. And then bringing them back together was really interesting to watch the dynamic between these women who had this one experience that really glued them together. But then, of of course life happens and they'd just lost contact and you know it happens to lots of us doesn't it yeah other stories are

you know very very moving um there was a father and daughter who'd been looking for each other last week and we managed to find both parties and introduce them and that is a mad thing to introduce a father and a daughter yeah can I ask does that happen for real on camera or have they already met 100 percent right so the show is filmed and they call it a rig show and I wasn't sure what that meant before we started filming but all the cameras are hidden and actually it works really nicely because the minute anybody, myself included, sees a camera person and a director and a sound person and there's action and you do slightly get a little bit more tense. So the conversation isn't as free flowing, maybe. But because the cameras are hidden, you really get to the heart of the story much quicker.

And it's a more honest conversation because nobody's on edge they know the cameras are there but you can't see them and all the reunions happen as they're happening so it's live essentially um we don't reset it happens as it happens and i think there's a huge responsibility making shows like this you know these people had waited a lifetime to meet and I can't believe that they did it on a television program it's not something I might do but they did and it happens for real and gosh it was it was beautiful well it was I mean the dad um it was a very very what he actually did with his daughter whom he'd never met who was I think a mother herself wasn't she so

he kind of just sort of patted her on the back. There wasn't some big show of affection, but it was an incredibly paternal gesture. He just went up to her and just said, oh, no, don't worry, don't get upset, and just patted her fairly consistently on the back, at which point I did lose it. I think anybody watching would have felt that profoundly moving.

Oh, and I lost it knowing that it was come in. And I think, you know, those adoption stories, we have seen them before, but they never fail to move people, I think. made vulnerable through television being slightly made to be more or less of themselves for television or actually being harmed by television full stop well it's one of the things i worried about you know when when we started making the program i thought what's the duty of care here to these people because television isn't important in the end you know these are big life moments and i really applaud these people for wanting to do it on television um and i thought oh you know these are big life moments and I really applaud these people for wanting to do it on television um and I thought oh you know we need to make sure that they cared for before during and after and actually they'd found some brilliant people two counsellors Dee and James um with their

own stories as well to tell you know they've they've lived a life the pair of them as most therapists have and then um an adoption specialist as well who is there to guide the father and the daughter and the two brothers we saw in the first episode lee and steven you know she guided them through this process which one can only imagine how emotional it is and you know to to find out suddenly that you have a brother from nowhere i mean you can't imagine it can you when you've you know to to find out suddenly that you have a brother from nowhere i mean you can't imagine it can you when you've you know um but we've got these three people in place and they play a considerable role in the series and i think it's great that they're there they're a presence and for anybody who'd maybe want to be part of another series, they know that they're in safe hands, you know, and

the television side of it was always secondary to their experience. And after the reunion is done, I'd go in, have a chat with them, and then they'd have supper or they'd have lunch or whatever. And then the cameras would stop and they'd have however long they'd want to reconnect until they felt organically ready to sort of move on from that situation and, you know, leave the hotel, which I thought it was nicely done. Yeah. Is it pure coincidence, Alex, that the hotel's in Wales? It might be. I don't think so.

No, I don't think so. It's stunning up there. It's a wedding venue, it is. Is it? Okay. And that's why they sort of could block book it you know when there was no weddings um but yeah a lovely place and how nice that it was so it wasn't over the top as you've seen not over the top sumptuous but it's comfortable and i think it creates a lovely lovely oh they were lovely yeah very high pillow i mean i don't really like a bridal suite normally i've got something against a bridal suite, which is odd.

But whenever somebody goes, oh, we'll take you to the bridal suite, I go, oh, God, my heart slightly sinks. I think, here we go. All those brides. All the brides. What's happened? Let's investigate this further. Is it because you feel the ghosts of wedding nights past? Yeah, maybe the expectation

and then the expectation not living up to the reality. I don't know. Oh, surely no one has a wedding night these days, do they? Well, we didn't. I mean, I'm happy to say that we didn't. I mean, we were too drunk, of course. Oh, OK. I meant that you appeared to be telling us

that you may not have been a virgin on your wedding day, Alex, but that can't be the truth. Oh, no, don't be silly. Good grief. Thank goodness. Act. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Alex Jones was on the programme today, and once we talked about the new show, Reunion Hotel,

and a bit about the one show too, we wanted to talk to her about her family life. She's got three small kiddies. She does an awful lot of work. And her husband, Charlie Thompson, who is a chef, he got Lyme disease a year back, which is a horrible, horrible, debilitating thing. And as Alex explains,

it then marked a bit of a descent for his mental health too. And he had a very bad bout of depression. Well, we found out last year, so last summer, or, you know, it was a difficult time. When you were filming. When we were filming. He wasn't well. And, I mean, that impacted on his, you know, on his mental health.

And it was difficult, you know, as a family of five with three young children. It is a lot to navigate. And there'll be lots of people listening who can completely understand, you know as a family of five with three young children it is a lot to navigate and there'll be lots of people listening who can completely understand you know it's just like every day as you know is quite full-on anyway with the pressure of work and children and all the rest of it and when you add something else into the mix god it really destabilizes things quite quickly um but we've come through it and he's much better um and getting better all the time which is brilliant i thought you said something so important about dealing with it though which was simply to admit that there were lots of times when he tried to talk to you about what was

going on in his head where you simply couldn't understand no it wasn't that you didn't want to wasn't that you hadn't read the books it wasn't that you're not clever enough to you simply couldn't understand what he was saying and i I think sometimes we forget that. We feel that we can explain everything now, can't we? But depression can simply remove you from another person's world. Yeah, I feel, I mean, I feel quite lucky that I haven't had that much experience of it, I suppose. And we are people, we're a couple that talk that talk you know telly goes off many nights of the week and we have a good chat because we like a good chat and so you know we're good in terms of connecting on that level but I just didn't have experience of what he was talking about and I

thought but surely he'll be fine you can feel all right and he was like oh it's just not that easy how you know and i couldn't i just couldn't get it um and i think we all expect to get it because we talk about it so much more we talk about it more openly than we did before but i think experience is everything as per anything else yeah i mean it's a cliche but maybe it's even significantly harder for men to talk about it yeah maybe yeah even though he's a good talker, you know, and he's got good mates that he can talk to. That's good, yeah. And, you know, he's got a really good relationship with his parents,

so they do talk things out as a family. So I think, you know, he was well placed in that way to have lots of people to go to. But still, I think the person you want to understand is the person you're living your life with, you know. And I do now got a load better because I just forced myself to research, research, research, you know, and find out.

But I think until you've, you know, until you've walked a day in their shoes, it's difficult to understand exactly what's going on. Yeah. And having young children in the mix as well. I mean, it doesn't matter how much you love them um they are exhausting and they i mean i genuinely do not know how you manage to keep your i have to say very cheery showbiz show on the road because you are a you know the one show is a significant factor actually in the lives of a lot of people in britain it marks that you know the day is over the evening begun, the tough bits probably behind me.

Yeah. I want to relax now in the company of people I regard as friends. And, you know, you are that person to a lot of people. Well, thank you. I mean, that's really kind of you to say that. But I think, you know, sometimes home can feel, you know, especially at that time, a bit like a pressure cooker. You know, and I think a lot of people's homes feel like that. It's busy.

It's full on. You know, it's relentless. And that it's busy it's full-on you know it's relentless and i wouldn't change it for the world but coming to work is easy in comparison i mean it's like a day out doesn't it you get a coffee you have a little chat you know and so i suppose usually no one needs their nappy change exactly nobody needs their nappy change if they do that's a good story but you know you're amongst friends and you know in our case as well we're lucky um over in the one show a lot of the girls i work with i've worked with for years and years and years we've all kind of moved through the stages at the same time we've

all had children at the same time and so you know it's that thing where you can have a good chat you know we sit in the makeup room have a good chat decompress and then by the time we run telly i feel absolutely fine i know it's a it's a classic question about the one show but those those mood changes alex the gear changes yeah i mean you know that's what we call them bulimia walruses yes you know it's it's um it's a master class really um do you ever want to laugh oh all the time and i think i do sometimes well it has been known i mean i can't sometimes i can't look at ronan keaton because he's just got this energy whereas i i don't even have to look at him to know that he started losing it okay and i think right don't look at him don't look at him and i'm thinking of all the sad things yes die in yeah potential of cancer all of it trying not to

laugh and sometimes it's impossible but i think as a program you know like everything over the last decade or so it's evolved quite a lot and i think those gear changes as we call them and sometimes they'll be in the autocue and you'll see them come in, big laughters. Gear change or sad. Oh, so they literally write that for you. Yeah, or sad. Sad. Sad.

Change your face, sad. And have any of the kind of guest presenters ever read those things out? Thankfully not, but I do know of people who've done that and that would be highly funny if somebody did. It would, wouldn't it? It would do that. Sad. Today, would do that. Sad.

Today, news. Are you, on the one show, very much building up to the coronation? Oh, very much. You can imagine. Well, I can imagine. In the thick of it. Yes, okay. I mean, get those sandwiches at the ready.

We are raring to go. Will you be making the flan? No. The quiche, the coronation quiche? No. No. Oh, Alex, what a disappointment, Jane. I know, I know.

I'm not very domesticated, much to Mary Berry's absolute horror. She's tried her best, and no. I just, no, I'm not. I can make a cucumber sandwich, you know. That's all you need, isn't it? And some fizz. And have you ever been mistaken, in a comedic way, for the extremely right-wing, absolutely idiot Alex Jones,

the conspiracist. In what kind of settings? Well, that's why I'm banned from Twitter. Oh, yeah? Because they assumed we were one and the same people, which, you know, hopefully is very clear to most people that we're not. And then I couldn't be bothered to explain, so now I'm banned as well. You're banned?

Yeah. It's actually, sorry, I didn't realise's actually it's a spectacular 21st century development isn't it do you know what we were having a conversation about Twitter in the production office outside

I mean if you weren't banned would you be getting your knickers in a twist about the blue tick I couldn't care less I mean that's awful to say isn't it

no there's so much stuff to consider and to you know no it's just so far down on my list of priorities. I'm like, whatever, Bluetick.

Don't worry about Bluetick. I can't even access Twitter. Yeah, and actually, well, Fee, you've deleted your account, haven't you? I deactivated my account because I just feel bizarre about giving Elon Musk any money or being part of a thing that's going to give him lots of money. I think it's an odd thing. I mean, you know, I know lots of people are kind of for it

because it stops people from replicating people's accounts. But my experience of Twitter, and I've never had any kind of hassle on it. People are generally quite nice about the show. You know, I'm lucky in that way. But I think there's an odd community on there it's not particularly positive no and i think i can do without that yeah and also i just really objected to the only people with a million followers are going to get this kind of

verification in the future and for me the joy of twitter was people way way below the people who sought out celebrity it was that genuine feeling you could bump into someone who had an interesting point of view there. I think that also once you're introducing money to it, it's a bit of a weird thing, isn't it? Paying for a blue tick is an odd thing. Yeah. I mean, is the idea of a blue tick altogether an odd thing?

I don't know, really. But since I'm banned, I haven't thought too much about it. Yeah. Well, look, you can live in a celebrity world without having a blue tick or being on Twitter. It's actually really... No, it's liberating to hear that. It is liberating.

I agree. I'm going to deactivate my account as well. Let's get in there. Get rid. And, of course, your kids, you may, and I don't blame you, by the way, for getting a little bit, well, unenthusiastic about soft play, but at least they're not in the social media age quite yet.

And I actually fear for you, Jen, and i don't mean this in a horrible way but about what might lie ahead for kids in five ten years time honestly especially when we had um annie i just thought oh my goodness you know this is really scary i'm hoping in my sort of positive thinking that it'll sort of go around in a circle and by the time annie becomes sort of 14 15 that the whole thing would have imploded on itself and stopped because it's so out of control the whole thing um but yeah i mean i'm on instagram i quite like it but i i don't spend hours a day on it okay what was the last thing you bought as a result of seeing something on Instagram? Because, Fi, what did you get? So, about 6.30 this morning, I ordered myself a spandex camisole

that's going to banish my love handles, muffin tops. It's going to accentuate my cleavage. It's going to sort of world peace. I can't wait. It's going to tidy up my pantry and all will be good in the world. I kind of want to see this on because I can't imagine a camisole. A camisole usually feels loose. It's one of those ones, you know, when people do that stretchy thing.

Look at how stretchy it is. And you think, what is that made of? You have to wonder why that advert popped up. I mean, what are you talking about? Just to illustrate the difference between us, the last thing I bought was a really sharp implement to remove cat hair from chairs but satisfying also before breakfast i bought it and very satisfying works a dream actually you are you know so what was the last thing you bought what can i say what did i weirdly you're gonna think this is really odd a plate okay just one to eat off yeah no see yeah um a decoration

plate i've got to that age where i now buy plates and pot plants okay i just have a bit of a problem and we're going to have to book you again because we don't have time to pursue this but go on a decoration plate i know where are you going to put it my husband said now i feel like we need to end this relationship now if you're buying plates... Is it a Coronation commemorative plate? No. Oh, OK. Well, I thought it might be.

I would understand that more. No, no, no. It's got a badger on it. It sounds horrible, but it's actually lovely. OK. Right. Thank you, Alex. Best of luck in everything you do.

Thank you. Take your badger plate away. Alex Jones with her badger decoration plate. I actually might go home tonight and scroll through Instagram in the hope of seeing that plate. Well, if you could get me a plate commemoratively celebrating both badgers and the coronation. So a badger with a crown on, I would like it, please. There'll be one somewhere. I always remember when I'd hear about badgers

that there was a lady who used to go to DEFRA, which is the Department of Food, Rural Affairs, Fisheries and Rural Affairs, protesting about badger culling, dressed as a badger. And she always said that when Michael Gove was Secretary of State at DEFRA, he was always scrupulously polite and would always greet her every morning.

Mrs Badger, very good morning. Good morning, Mrs Badger. And manners are important. But presumably that's why he can't go outside to have a fag because he might be attacked by the badgers because he's had a special smoking shed built, hasn't on the roof of his department now which i think is quite something who's paid for that well i hope he has otherwise it's as scandalous as liz truss and her friends taking the bathrobes home from chevening. Liz Truss, former Prime Minister.

Just going to pep back. Let that sink in. How did we let that happen to ourselves? Right, mind you, worse things have happened. They really have. OK. Good night. Bye.

Bye. You did it. Elite listener status for you for getting through another half hour or so of our whimsical ramblings. Otherwise known as the hugely successful podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. We missed the modesty class. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler, the podcast executive producer. It's a man. It's Henry Tribe.

Yeah, he's an executive. Now, if you want even more, and let's face it, who wouldn't, then stick Times Radio on at three o'clock Monday until Thursday every week. And you can hear our take on the big news stories of the day, as well as a genuinely interesting mix of brilliant and entertaining guests on all sorts of subjects. Thank you for bearing with us and we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon. I'm to open breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11 and get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone.