Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Big Mamma Garv unleashed on the streets (with Carol Vorderman)

Episode Date: January 22, 2026

It’s a jam-packed Thursday: there are parish notices; an idea for a new podcast format steam-rolled by a book club announcement; a reflection on the lasting impact of the whoopee cushion; a call for respect for farts in yoga; and a moment of real self-indulgence... enjoy! Plus, Carol Vorderman reflects on her career and discusses the perks of mid-life. Our next book club pick is 'A Town Like Alice' by Nevil Shute. Our most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton.You can listen to our 'I'm in the cupboard on Christmas' playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1awQioX5y4fxhTAK8ZPhwQIf you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producers: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And we're here. Right, welcome. Welcome to Offer. Let's just have a little check-in with fees back. Any progress? Well, no, not really. And it got usurped by a child's medical need. So that's absolutely fine. Nothing too serious, though, we need to say, no, no. But sometimes that's quite helpful, isn't it, don't you find? What, when it takes your mind off your suffering.

Yes. Yeah, when you just think, okay, I can't deal with that, so I've got to go and deal with that. I'm sure my back will be absolutely fine. do you always take note of the advice on the painkillers you know that you shouldn't take this for more than three days and all that kind of stuff I'm not suggesting that anyone takes over the normal recommended dose but I often think that those type of warnings have come to mean nothing to people would you agree

I think that's very interesting I think over-the-counter meds are so I mean they're so well are they overused they're certainly they're ubiquitous That was the word I was groping for, ubiquitous. Because I remember in my childhood, you'd open the family medicine cabinet, and generally there'd be TCP, germaline, possibly paracetamol, possibly cailin and morphine for your dodgy belly or whatever, and that would be it, maybe calamine lotion.

But also, you would have a family medicine cabinet. These things weren't things in my memory that anybody carried out and about with them. No, they didn't. Whereas now, I. defy all of our beautiful, lovely lady listeners in particular, I bet you've all got a small pharmacy in your handbag. Almost certainly. And I never leave the house without some form of paracetamol or neurofen, some form of emodium or blocker, and some form of antihistamines. So what is that all about? Because we have changed in a generation. We have. And we don't,

I don't need those things on a daily or even weekly basis. And thankfully, thank goodness you don't. But is it, it's not big farmer, it's the big, but the big pharmaceutical companies with their very, very clever packaging. Let's never forget that ibuprofen, those simple ones that cost, I don't know, probably about a quarter or less of the price of the branded ones

with their incredibly effective box with the target. It targets your pain. And it's super sexy, isn't it? Because it's all shiny and silvery. And it looks a little bit, it's very fashionable. It's like how they stripes down your trousers.

They know what they're doing. Yeah. It's like with Apple. packaging. I remember reading once that the Apple way is to put everything they sell in a box that is so snug and close fitting around the product that it makes, it enhances the experience of opening it all. It's all tight. It's all shiny, shiny white. None of it is done without thought. It's so true though, Jane. I got a second-hand Apple device because one of my children needed a replacement and I got it from one of those refurb places and I just I don't think I'll ever buy a new

piece of tech equipment again why would you the refurb places are so fantastic they're where everybody's really really easy to use boredom goes you know that you just I just want the I want the upgrade so I'm going to ditch this one so we buy the ditch ones now and it arrived in just a kind of a cardboard wrap around it's not sexy is it type taped together with packing tape and nothing else inside. It still worked. It's still beautiful. It's still absolutely lovely. It is very much appreciated. But when I opened it, I thought, oh. Yeah. You get that same thrill. That reminds me of an email we've had.

What's that email, Jane, Susan Garvey? M.A. No, sorry, B-A. You said this on the live radio show earlier on in the week, and I honestly thought, have you been cabin crew and I've just missed a huge part of your career? This is just to spite those people who say this is unstructured cobbler's. Eve works for hours on putting this podcast together and she's just giving me this email, which I asked for. Because I think this anonymous emailer is making a point that a lot of people, probably it will resonate.

I am still paying for my so-called children's mobile phone bills, she says. They are now in their mid-20s in full-time employment and have moved out of the family home. We paid for their phones in the first instance when they were teens as their phones went onto our account. We continued to pay for the phones when they went to uni and first jobs as a way to support them. However, they now earn more than me

and I have found it very difficult to get out of paying for their phones. Reasons, changing ownership of account took two hours on the phone, only to be told my son hadn't been at his address long enough. Changing providers has complications with keeping me, numbers and my phone company won't allow changes to be made in person in the shop. I'm just doing calculations for my tax return and I have paid at least £800 for their two phones. When I see my adult children, I want to enjoy the rare occasions we have together without having to navigate this sort of tricky task. However, the resentment I'm starting to feel is real. I'd like to prepare

other parents for this situation as it is a quagmire I am furious about. I'm curious to hear your thoughts, says Anonymous. What are your thoughts? My thoughts are that my ex-husband is still paying for my children's phones, and I think that's brilliant. I'm just going to be honest. I do fairness, every now and again, he does raise the issue. And I'm ashamed to say they take no notice.

I've got to say, if it were me, I'd probably be a bit like our anonymous correspondent. Well, that's very generous of him. Yes, I'm saying, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Any thoughts from himself? Well, I'm paying for... Yeah, well, but they're still young, you see. I do think Anonymous raises a bit of an issue

because it is... Obviously, you do it initially, and then you do it when they leave home to go to uni because you're desperate for them to keep in contact with you. But then it gets... Then, of course, there's often now quite a large period of time between leaving full-time education and acquiring a so-called proper job.

I mean, I don't know how you define that, by the way, but a job where you are earning sufficient money to begin to pay for your own phone. And then I think it just gets lost. I think there's an opportunity for the conversation, and as our correspondent is discovering, it's quite difficult to find a place in your relatively limited interactions with your adult children

to actually say to them, because you don't want to ruin the occasion, listen, are you going to put your hands in your pocket? You're now earning more than I am. And that must be a... It's vexatious to say, say the least, isn't it? Why don't you just avoid the conversation by

not paying the bill and then you can just send the final demands on to them? It's a tough love suggestion for my colleague. I can't imagine you ever doing that by the way. But it's a thought. It is a thought. But I think it's a very valid point to raise and I certainly wouldn't dream

of asking my at university child to pay for exactly the reason that you've said. I'm just so desperate for him to keep in touch with me. The idea that I'll create some kind of a hurdle for that to happen. I don't believe that that will ever be the case.

This is what it is with kitties. They've got you over a barrel. But I tell you what's also interesting is paying for your parents' mobile phone because I think we're in the generation where the digital world was swirling around us and even more swirling around our parents.

And it was quite difficult for our parents to adopt the mobile phone thing. So in order to make sure that my mum was on board with it, I pay for her mobile phone. And as I say, I mean, it's just an automatic opening door at the pearly gates for me. But I know I'm not alone in that. I know lots of my friends pay for their parents

because it just seemed a big ask for them to suddenly get on board as pensioners. Because it's not particularly cheap. Not particularly cheap at all. It's a world that a lot of people, I mean, as we heard yesterday, Nigel Farage, he doesn't do computers. Well, that's a very good segue because I know that you were irate. I am so angry about this.

I'm just really angry. Here's a quick one from Carol. If Farage is so computer illiterate, how does he make money from Cameo? Well, because he's got a team, Carol, because he just doesn't do computers. Now, I thought that was a load of baloney. It was an excuse he came up with,

he's in trouble with a parliamentary watchdog, his people, because he can't do it because he doesn't do computers, had waited far too long to register some of his outside earnings from Parliament. Quite a lot of money, about 400 grand's worth of outside earnings, which you've got to register within a time limit. And they hadn't done so. And these earnings, and he's put this down as the reason why people pay him,

it's to be Nigel Farron. Yes, that's right. But is he being... I mean, I suppose I'm asking, do we believe that he doesn't do computers, which, I mean, we have to be careful. He says he doesn't, so that's okay. and I'd be the first to admit,

and Fee would be the second person to remind me that I'm not the most computer literate. On the other hand, I don't want to be Prime Minister. And I'm not saying all sorts of things about online safety and all the rest of it. And at the same time, not being able to use the tech. Obviously, I can use a certain amount of tech

and I wouldn't be able to do my job if I couldn't. But I think, you know, aside from our feelings about Nigel Farage, I think it does illustrate just a really, really important point that the people who are in charge of legislating and can have the power in a room with the tech pros are often than people who cannot work a phone. You know, they wouldn't have been able to use Google Maps to get to that meeting without the help of an assistant.

And that isn't good enough. No, it's not good enough. So I think you're absolutely right on that. You're absolutely much. I'm fuming, Carol. I'm with you. I farted in yoga. This is the title of a series of street art. It's not an admission from me. Liz is usually in Walthamstow

and has sent us this photograph of some graffiti given all the recent yoga chat I think Fia's mentioned on the pod. It's in a park in Hackney and we were there walking our Westy-Burti. I have a hunch that the singular of graffiti is graffiti but I feel like I'd need to get a jumper with elbow patches to say that with any gravitas.

It's a form of street art so it's a... Good Lord. It's a series that went up around the East London area and I think has spread a little bit it's been going for quite some time why are you looking at me like that?

No I mean I this is so it hasn't reached East West Kensington at it I haven't seen it anywhere Okay well I'm really angry I'll do it tonight On the way home I'm sure it has it's a recurring anonymous I'm using a little piece of AI technology to bring this news to you

It's a recurring anonymous street art piece known for its humour representing a relatable embarrassing moment in a typically serene setting with some attributing the style to the artist Y Rubin or BMG. Are you secretly BMG? Big Mama Garvey. Can you imagine?

Yes. Reflecting raw expression, normalising bodily functions and sparkling discussion on street arts role. So there you go. I love the idea that young people need to help us normalising bodily functions. We've been normalising bodily functions on this podcast for thousands of years As regular listeners will know.

But I like the fact that the younger generation have taken to the streets in order to furnish us with a little piece of amusement. So well spotted, Liz, and keep it coming. Does anyone still, I wonder if they came in any upmarket crackers over Christmas, the whoope cushion.

Do you think it's still deployed? We used to have all my sister and I, and we did occasionally, I have to say. Oh, it's fantastic. It is quite funny. Fantastic. Pathetic, obviously. But also, it just was amusing.

Yeah. You know, your elderly aunt would sit down. And there'd be a stupendous amount of guffery from the cushioning. You know, it's just funny. We did just have the best childhoods. What with that and slinkies? Well. Do you not like it?

Did you have a slinky? Yeah, okay. Do you think that the young, young people have slinkies? I wouldn't have thought so. So yesterday afternoon on the Times Radio program, Times Radio, get the app, it's completely free, and we're on between 2 o'clock and 4, and it's live. And yesterday, we had to take Donald Trump's speech to the World Economic Forum, didn't we?

And can we just be honest about the fact that the people who WhatsApp the program, they hated it and they wanted it off? But we have this very clever interactive tool. No. We have an interactive tool. Yes, we've tried to get rid of him, but he keeps coming in. And it shows us. Right. Sorry, you lost me there completely. What does this interactive tool do?

Tell us. Oh, the worm. That's it, it is the worm. And it just identifies numbers of people listening on smart devices. And the listeners on the smart devices, listenership on smart devices went up when Donald Trump's speech was broadcast live. Now, a certain amount of that will be what is now called hate listening. But there will be some people who love every throbbing minute of it. It's a tricky one, isn't it?

Well, it is a tricky one. I think the problem with Donald Trump at the moment. is that you don't switch him off because the next sentence he says might blow the world up so there is a feeling that you can't take your eyes off him and he loves it and that's why

his speeches seem to be getting longer and longer and more and more rambling because nobody does say actually mate watch tapping you know the next one needs to come on get off yeah so he's loving it he's just loving it well I mean can we just go through just some of the adjectives

in the emails Bell end pathological he's not in full possession of his marbles he's a fruit cake from Melanie watching him throw down his book of achievements like some out-of-date school report

was both hilarious and deeply troubling troubling is clearly attention he seeks and to expect people to sit and listen to the rants of a demented man for almost two hours is mad I just I really I want to fast forward 15 years and future people

what are you saying about this? Well, it depends what comes next. Well, yes, it does. Let's go to anonymous Brit abroad. I've lived in the States for almost 30 years. I can honestly say the country has never been so divided. And whilst I might not be standing on a bridge like yesterday's correspondent, listening to horns agreeing with the signs held by those protesting,

I am disgusted. However, and please keep me anonymous because of this next part, many of my partner's business acquaintances think that Donnie can do no wrong, as far as they're concerned. his selfishness also represents their own financial interests and pockets, and they defend everything he does whilst proclaiming facts against the administration are fake news and any other views are simply woke. There is little understanding of the chaos he's creating in other countries

because, quite frankly, many believe America is great and other countries can fall by the wayside. I doubt many Americans could find Greenland on a map. and she does go on. Every day there's a tangent thrown in there and nobody considers that the latest stunt could be covering up more hard-hitting news which may affect those poor souls living on the breadline. The rich really seem to have very little compassion to many in need.

All too often, I hear them taking the approach that humanitarian aid isn't necessary if it takes a dollar away from their own pockets. Gosh, that's all very grim and I'm going to say that's a somewhat jaundiced view from one of British person living in the States but you're there. So you know what you see and hear, I guess.

It must be difficult if you are meeting people socially on a regular basis who really buy into all this. Don't sound terribly pleasant. No. But it's part of the human condition, isn't it, to want to be comfortable. And maybe we've all, in Western democracies, lost the ability to be uncomfortable with our leadership,

but not let it ruin our day. So, you know, we want to just be able to love things and we want to just be able to eat the right things, do the right things, hear from the right people. We're just surrounded by this kind of, as the Chinese proverb goes, stroking the donkey the right way, aren't we? We want that all the time. So maybe it is just a natural human desire

not to have the ability to look at the discomfort that's being caused by a man and just go, this is the... the plus point for me. The markets are up. Mortgage rates are coming down. I mean, those are two facts in this country. So, you know, if you wanted to take from that, that it's down to him. So you don't have to look at all of the other shit around him. It is an option, isn't it? Yeah. Then you can just take that bit. Yeah. I mean, I think probably my pension has gone up. So that's a bit grim, isn't it? Well, not for you. Right. I'll buy everybody a drink.

Okay. Eve, everyone. Let's hold her to that. Eve gets a mention in a lovely email from Gina, who says, I'm catching up, but I've been listening to you both chatting about Hamnet. I wanted to tell you my son, his wife, and the six-month-old are going to a screening at the Greenwich Picture House. It's a baby and parent screening.

I had no idea such things were available. How wonderful! I think I would love to be a fly on the wall. I've been with you since the very early days. Thank you both. I love to listen to your chatter. I laugh out loud a lot and hasn't young Eve? got the most lovely voice.

Say it louder. Thank you, Gina. There's no point whispering when someone's just said you got a lovely voice. The baby and parent screening, they're called screamers, aren't they? I don't know. You said you'd been to one. I've never been to one.

They came in in definitely my daughter's baby years and they were blooming fantastic. So the lights are up in the cinema. You can obviously go in there with a buggy, a baby breastfeeding, whatever. And it's not, you know, they don't sell out all the seats, you've got some space around you,

and the film is on really loud. I was going to say that, the noise, I do notice this myself now, I do find the noise really overwhelming at the cinema. I mean, just extraordinary. It's properly wax you around the head. It's pumping, isn't it? Dolby stereo.

Yeah, so how do babies cope with that? I suppose, I think, I only went to a couple, and I think, I mean, I was always breastfeeding. It's just literally always breastfeeding. So I think... It is a time-consuming business. I don't remember...

I remember the... thinking the film is on too loud. Right. In a different way to, I think, now, all this is quite loud. But they have to turn it up because there are just so many babies who are screeching all the way through.

Okay, but if it does happen, there's no sense of embarrassment for anybody... No. No. And it was just lovely, Jane, because as we've, you know, discussed, ad infinitum, I've slipped into Latin there, on the podcast before. You know, those early toddler years and baby years can be very isolating and very, you know, difficult. And to have something that you can go to where you can just get a snatch of adult life and conversation,

and it's not insuency spider climbing up the tree or that very infantilizing music. You know, sometimes that's quite hard after a while, isn't it? You know, when you all have to clap along. Oh, wheels on the bus? Yeah, shake the tambourines. I deliberately haven't mentioned that just in case it starts an earworm in anybody. So lovely to just go and see a movie.

Really lovely. Yeah, well, I mean, Hamnet is going to be a stranger one. Hamlet's not the right choice. No, sorry. That's where you started, I don't know. That's the point the email is making, isn't it? It's a bit of a... Yes, no, Hamlet's definitely not the right choice.

I wouldn't go anywhere near that with a barge pole, Gina. I would tell your lovely son and his wife to go, I mean, heaven for fend, go and see Marty's Supreme No, don't. Go and see the housemaid, because I was talking about Freedom McFadden. Yes. And just saying how extraordinarily successful she is. And there is an interview with her. It's in last week's Sunday Times culture section. I always go first to culture, don't you?

You don't, but okay. The interview is by Saratititam. and she's gone and met or spoken on Zoom to Frieda MacFadden. Well, she's only gone and met her. She's probably hasn't actually. She's done her at the interview on Zoom. Because Frida, although she is photographed here, nobody knows her real name.

She is a doctor. So she's so bloody clever, isn't she? She's written all these books. And she's a doctor specialising in brain disorders. Lives in Boston, Massachusetts. The film The House Maid is out now. I made a note of the fact that she traced, Sarah writes that she traces her interest

in the dark side of women's lives back to two of her biggest influences Charlotte Bronte and Daphne de Morio Oh, she talks about Rebecca So yes I mean well done to Frida What a woman I mean to be Uber successful

And really successful In two very different worlds It's quite extraordinary It is congratulations to her Are you going to go and see the housemaid now Well I probably will seek it out actually The Housemade film has grossed $192 million so far

So far worldwide Don't think it'll get any Oscar nominations or anything like that. But, you know, well done her. 36 million copies of her books have been sold. I'm surprised it's as few as that. I thought it would be more, actually. Did you hear that Anton Decker doing a podcast? Are they? I'm amazed that they haven't done one before. Well, this is what people are saying. And it's, you know, they're not going to structure it. No, they just think that they can sit down as two mates and talk. Didn't have a lot of cobblers. Never take off. Fat chance.

There will come a time when it is fashionable in the celebrity world to not have a podcast but we're in the pendulum swing in the other direction at the moment where everybody's got a podcast. Yeah, I mean really and truly I don't know how anyone we don't know how there's anyone left to listen to us because they're probably just making their own podcast

I think you've got a lot of demands on your podcast times haven't you? You enjoy a factual one I do and one that is a telling of the story I've definitely reached my peak with interview ones I just can't I can't really focus on the interview ones anymore and I wonder whether

podcasters are missing a trick and they need to head off into completely different genres now. What would you suggest? My voice went very deep though, I don't know why. Quises and competitions. A quiz? Yeah. Okay.

Well, do you want to do a quiz now? No. I've got some ideas. We just had a meeting, haven't we? Oh, yes. And I did air one of my ideas, and there was a silence afterwards, and I couldn't tell whether it was the silence of that's genius

or the silence of, that's absolutely bloody daft. He's making a sign, but I'm, I'll tell you what, I'm no good at Girard. Do you want to go off the back of the Rebecca? Oh, yes. Talk about what book we're going to be doing in book? Well, I tell you what, dear listener, if you've got any thoughts and you want to know my competition idea, I'll tell you in person, because it didn't hold the audience here at all.

I think it's a cracker, actually. I know, I'm going to keep it to myself. And if it turns out to make lots of money, I'm going to share it with the listeners, not you two. Go off the back if it were through Becky now. Well, the book we've decided to... Not interested. The book Eve and I have decided to...

Is a town like Alice by Neville Schult. What's the USP of the book club, Jane? It's books that not other people are... That not other people... It's... The USP of the book club is books that aren't currently newly published or being discussed the length and breadth of the land or planet.

It's a book that, in this case, we've decided to go for a reread and let's heat up an old classic and this one is Neville Schutes, a town like Alice. So that's it and we'll discuss it in... I don't know whether you're still going to be with us. Can you talk now because I'm going to run it, I'm getting out of breath.

That's going to be in a couple of weeks' time. Oh, damn, we'll all be fine. But actually, I did want to mention Yvette, who's our Australian correspondent, you might be interested to hear that Neville Schute lived not very far from where I live. Don't forget, as well as a town like Alice, Chute wrote on the beach. This is an end of the world book set in our Bayside suburb in the early 60s.

Possibly not a book for our uncertain times, but still excellent. It is a good book that, actually. It's very sort of simple and straightforward, but pretty devastating. Hollywood came to town and turned it into a movie in 1959. We had Ava Gardner, Gregory Peck, Anthony Perkins, and Fred Astaire. My in-laws were courting at the time, and they lived within walking distance of the film locations which included our local end of the line train station and beach they did make the film again in the year 2000 and you know look that up it starred rachel ward and brian brown

but apparently it wasn't much of a hit quite surprised about that uh... evette goes on to say that chute lived in a place called lang warren as did the murdock family who and joan lindsay who wrote picnic at hanging rock now that's a good book that is and the the film, super, super scary. Really atmospheric and very creepy. Yeah, based on a true story?

Oh, I don't think it can't be, can it? I don't know. I might luck it up. Yeah, anyway, thank you, Evette. Yes, on the beach is one to explore, but as you say, perhaps not one for our uncertain time. So we're going to go for a town like Alice. In parish notices, we would very much like to ask a favour of our Australian audience. So we've been talking a bit about what the under-16s media ban has meant in Australia

and thank you for your lovely and informative emails on the subject. Would it be possible for any of you to just send us a voice note voicing up either the stuff that you've already sent in an email or if you'd like to come fresh to the party and just send us a new voice note about you and your kids or grandkids or pupils' experience? We'd be very interested in hearing from you And that would enable us to put together a little montage to play out in our live program because it is a subject that interests our audience hugely

and we want to dedicate a bit more time to it. So also that has the added advantage of me never having to do an Australian accent again. And I suspect that there's some motivation in the production office for that. I fear that if we do get round to discussing, as we will, at town like Alice, it may invigorate you again. So that's worry. I'll see you on the veranda. But I don't know if there are any Australian teenagers

who'd be willing to take part, but we'd love to hear from an Australian teenager if you can persuade one that you currently wrangle to send us a voice note or at least give you information for your own voice note. That would be great. Because it looks like politicians here are going to do it. Thinking the same thing.

Yeah, yep. And definitely that elastoplast rip-off thing that's been happening where so many young teenagers have really suddenly lost their social circle because of the social media ban, we'd be very interested to chart that path because it may mean that you're damaged for life,

it may be something you get over very quickly. We simply don't know, first time we've all ever been here. And I keep being told that, in fact, it's not a good thing at all because it's sending teenagers into parts of the social media sphere they wouldn't normally investigate because they've been shoved off the more respectable platform. So either way, it just seems incredibly worrying and complicated.

Yeah, so more of those would be great. You can send them to Jane and Fee at times. com. If you can't work out how to do a voice note and attach it to email, contact Nigel Farage. Yes, she'll be able to put you right. And he will pass it on someone in his team. O to be so grand that you don't do computers. Claire says she just doesn't watch the news.

I found out what's happening in the world through snippets of social media and radio. that's enough to make me switch over when the TV news comes on. When I was teaching, I used to tell the children not to worry about things over which they had no influence or control, and I've always stuck to that. Call me an ostrich, but I don't care. I can't really get down with...

I love your emails, Claire, but I can't really get down with that one. She says she lasted about 30 minutes with Catman. Oh, okay. It doesn't like, she says, that blokey sort of television. though the Instagrammers who were making their living from their cats that was interesting she said okay yes I mean I was looking at Dora last night and thinking how can I make money out of this animal

and I can't okay I just can't I think sometimes you have to realise the limitations of your cat she won't go paddleboarding she doesn't want to go out for a walk she isn't all that cute all that reliably often for me to even begin to monetise her antics, such as they are. She's done a bit of modelling, but she doesn't want to talk about it now. It was glamour stuff, you see, and she's put it behind her.

You're going to hate me for this, but... Oh, yes. Cool Cat and Pinky Ponks, that they were on the cover of Celebrity Cat magazine. When? You've never heard this before. God, years ago, and I actually can't reproduce the photograph, and I have had it taken down because it was where my kids were... were very, very young and they were holding

the kittens and mucking around in the garden and swimming costumes, so I don't let that photo off out. Oh, I see. No, fair. Well, fair enough, but that is really quite devastating for me. Is it? Okay. I just want to own that. Okay. Really upsetting. Right, now, Eve's going to read out a flattering email

about the podcast that I felt for you that neither you nor I could read out, but I thought we should both hear it. And then we are going to hear from a woman called Carol Vorderman, who is embracing midlife, we're told. And I think we need to hear a little bit about that, don't we think? Very much, I'm taking notes. But first...

I'll do my little bit. Jane and Fee wouldn't want me to read this out, but I felt like I really should. This comes in from Laura. No squirming. Take the praise. Listening to you to is my daily happiness. I didn't think you could excel yourselves, but Monday's episode treated us

to an absolute masterclass of spontaneous wit, jewels of turn of phrase, and the magic that happens when you two have a chat. You make it look easy and I'm not sure you realise what podcast gold it is. That's all, Laura, for the mixed laundry. Oh, Laura, I mean, your laundry lets you down, but you write a lovely email. Thank you so much. That was a very nice email, and I didn't agree.

It was hard to hear. And yet somehow... You look like you're in a lot of pain. I heard it. I'd tell you, I wouldn't mind hearing it just one more time. Just to make sure I've got your point. That's very kind of. of you, yes.

Absolutely no need to send emails like that. Send emails like that. Jane and Fiat, TimeStop Radio. I won't be reading them all out. Just a quick one from Cher. Oh, shut up. Stop it, God Almighty. Just a quick one.

I like this. Cher says her favourite cat name is Cleo Catra. Just sometimes you've got to, oh, that's funny, that's good. Right, here's the guest. It's, oh, hang on, I've written a script. Thank you for reminding me, Eve. Carol Vorderman is here to celebrate. midlife. The joys, the challenges and the pitfalls. Now, Carol says her 60s are the age she always

should have been. I mean, I don't know who's going to break it to her. That's not technically possible. But never mind, Carol. And she believes it's impossible to embrace postmenopause as a positive stage of life. It's just worth saying that you'll all know, Carol, certainly in the UK, but here are just a couple of her credentials. She's one of only four women amongst a cohort of 400 men to study engineering at Cambridge when she went to that uni back in the 80s. She's been one of the highest paid women on television and she's got a pilot's license. Now of those credentials, how many do you have? You didn't go to Cambridge. You didn't do engineering. You haven't ever been one of the highest paid women on television and you haven't got a pilot's license. And nor have I, which is why we want to

hear from someone who has all three of those things. Carol Vorderman. First of all, we need to determine exactly where you are in your life. And I can't believe it. I can't believe that you're over 60, but apparently you are. Yes, I'm 65. I've been around a very, very long time. Or is that how it feels to you?

It doesn't feel that way to me. No, I tell you what's interesting is as you get older, you think, oh God, you know, the old adage used to be when you're old when the policeman looked young. That's how it used to be said about 40 years ago. But I don't feel like, at all. I just feel fearless. I don't feel like age is something. You know, that number is

something that defines you. I never have felt that to be perfect. The campaign that you're endorsing, Carol, is about embracing positivity in midlife. How do you do it? I've been working with the online retailer, J.D. Williams, you know, through my life, not just me, but a lot of women in their particular industries and their lives and their communities had to break down the ceilings all the time they're breaking the glass ceiling all the time and so what that does throughout your life is it doesn't make you weaker it makes you stronger because you go oh here we go again oh yeah I live through that one oh I can live through that one I can live through that again so we're now at an at a midlife and there's research asked 2,000 women all over the country what their attitudes were

And 55% said they felt very independent and confident. And in terms of what women wear and how they look, almost 50%, 47%, said that they buy things that they want to if they want to feel sexy, but they buy it for themselves. They do not buy it to attract men. They do not buy it for their husbands. They do not buy it to agree with society's rules. And you asked those questions 40 years ago, even 20 years ago, and their percentages would have been very different.

So now we have all these younger women supporting us, and it's fabulous. I think it's amazing. I love what I see online about what younger women are saying and doing, and younger men too, because the vast majority of those younger men are supportive of women. So I'm here to celebrate all of that and to talk about it fearlessly and without apology. I would imagine if you're fearless at 65, you were fearless at 25 because you had quite a, not the most, not the easiest upbringing, stuff happened, didn't it? And your mom in particular was a heroic figure, but it can't have been 100% easy for you. No, growing up was unusual. I was born in 1960, and my parents had been married a while and had already had my brother and sister.

And then when my mum was pregnant with me, my father had an affair with a young lady. And so my mum left him. So she was then, she moved back up to where she was from, which was North Wales, a little town called Pristatin. And that's where we grew up. And she had five part-time jobs. and we grew up in abject poverty, four of us to a room and all of that, a dream.

And it, but we didn't know we were poor, if that makes sense. And then we were brought up as Catholics in a little local school in Rill. And, you know, we weren't allowed to go to commune. Oh, my mum wasn't allowed to go to communion.

We were the only kids from a divorce family in the school and so on. But there was a lot of kindness. Society said, and the church said at the time, you know, outcasts, but actually there's a lot of kindness. Teachers are wonderful. Nobody treated us differently in schools, so we didn't know any different. And I think growing up in North Wales was also unusual because there isn't much snobbery in North Wales.

There certainly wasn't then. Because there wasn't a lot of wealth. So everyone was sort of on the same level, I would say. So we weren't conscious of the differences. And then I went to the secondary school. And then my memory married my stepfather who was. So I find this interesting. My father was in the Dutch resistance, Mr. Bordeman.

And he came to this country, welcomed in the UK. And my stepfather was an Italian who obviously fought on the opposite side in the war. And he was a prisoner of war in Wales. So I had them from both sides, you know, which is wonderful. But he was amazing. stepfather. I didn't know my father at all, but my stepfather became my dad, but my mum kept leaving him. So it was quite sort of disturbed childhood, I suppose, in some ways. But I was very grateful for it. It's given me tremendous independence. Yes. Well, and you are, you're just

very much yourself, aren't you? I mean, we'll talk about some of your skillset is extraordinary. I mean, I really want to know what it takes to be a private pilot. You mention a lack of class division and snobbery in North Wales. But you went to Cambridge. And I imagine you must have felt like an outlier there, did you? Well, it was very odd. So growing up in North Wales, I used to go to nightclubs, naughty girl, from when I was 15 with my mates.

And we used to go to clubs in Manchester and do all sorts of different things. And so I was very streetwise. And I was 17 when I went to Cambridge because I'd gone up a year in school. And there was a wonderful Don called Mr. Green, who our college had only just, we're celebrating 50 years actually of girls in the college this year. And I was in the third year when they took girls and Sydney Sussex College, which I love. And now I'm an honorary fellow there, so I'm very happy.

I go there a lot. And it was, so I turned up in a Porsche with my boyfriend at the time. and he drove me down and dropped me off and I was there in my thigh-length leather boots and my tight jeans was the passion back then and all these other kids not all but most of the other kids

were from private schools which were girls schools as you know or boys schools back then and well they were just running around doing whatever they were doing because they hadn't seen boys or girls before and I thought good grief I couldn't believe how it

it was. I didn't feel inferior. If anything, I felt older than then. I felt like, really? That's how it's done, is it? So I didn't suffer in that way, I don't think. No, okay. You were studying engineering, which is also notable because just not many girls were studying engineering then, and I'm afraid, actually, it's still the case that not enough girls study it. Yeah, it's a lot better as everything, as you know, have improved. everything was improved for women generally. But when I went, I've been told that I was one of the first 50 to 100 girls who'd ever studied engineering at Cambridge.

It was that new. So we got lost in it. But I was known as my nickname there was Boots Borderman because everyone wore jeans and everyone wore a cagool. And I refused to wear jeans. So I used to wear my thigh-length leather boots literally every day to the department. And that was my nickname, Bootsborderman,

the lecturer is going to boot in, is booting. And I just thought, I don't know why I did it. I just thought, I'm not wearing a cagull in jeans. It's not what we do. I've got to say, I was at university around the same time as you, Carol, and I was wearing a cagul and jeans. But there we go. Nor did I arrive, by the way, in a...

Did you say a Porsche? Your boyfriend dropped you off in a Porsche. Wow. I mean, you are just the epitome of cool. So really, you were never going to be an engineer. Showbiz had to be your calling, surely. Well, I loved engineering. I worked underground on Europe's largest constructions like then in Snowdonia. 2,000 men underground and me.

What was that project? And it was now called the electric mountain. Back then it was called the Denali pump storage scheme. So it was a lake at the top, lake at the bottom. And it's the only battery on a national grid level that we have. So when supply is high and demand is low, the water from the bottom lake is pumped up to the top lake. When demand is high and supply of electricity is low, it's released through six turbines in the machine. Hall and it generates enough for a city basically for about six hours. And it's wonderful.

It was effectively a battery and the energy was stored in the form of water in these lakes. And I just found it fantastically interesting. I genuinely loved it. But again, it was when it came to the milk round, you know, when you were applying for jobs and I wanted to be what's called a mudlager. So I wanted to travel to Indonesia and look for oil and all of this. Women weren't allowed. Then I thought I want to be a fighter pilot. Women weren't allowed. Oh, what am I going to do now?

I ended up, my first job was being a supervisor in a frozen pea factory in Loisoft. Not quite as glamorous. But I love that too. So I'm very happy with that period of time in my life. And in fact, I met another engineer when I worked on. underground, he was a bit older than me, from Leeds. And so I used to go up to Leeds to see him every fortnight. And that was when, after I graduated, Mom left my stepfather again.

And I said, knowing Leeds we can afford to buy a house together, Mum, because the houses are so cheap. So we moved to Leeds. And it was the first time she'd ever been to Yorkshire when we moved in. I was 21. And three weeks later, she saw an article about this new show called Countdown. Yeah. It was going to be made at Yorkshire.

in Leeds, a mile from where we'd move to, she wrote the letter, forged my signature, and sent it in. And so begins a showbiz fairy tale. And in some ways, it has been a fairy tale, but you're notable because you've always been pretty outspoken. You were never just the lovely lady in the corner, were you? And you never wanted to be?

No, I don't think I ever wanted to be. I think because of stuff that had happened earlier on in my life, where not necessarily people in North Wales, but, you know, I began to see how the system works, you know, the system of government in this country, the system of how people with no money were kept down and so on. And I obviously rebelled against that. And I just, when you've had nothing, you've nothing to lose,

because you think I can survive with nothing. So I am going to fight. So I've always been a bit of a fighter. I'm actually quite nice to be around, though, Jane. To be honest. I rail against things that I believe are wrong in society. So that's where I do my shouting. I don't do it in the haves.

Yes. And it has both helped you along life's showbiz highway and also hindered your progress at times, hasn't it? Because the BBC biffed you off because of your pretty outspoken views about the last government on social media. Yeah. Yes, but I am the only presenter to have been sacked twice in my career by the BBC. And I'm most proud of it. I've got a badge made saying that's sacked by the BBC.

What was your first sacking? What caused that? First sacking was in the mid-90s. And I always had a plan B. So I had my own TV production company. I had about 30, 35 employees then. We made revision videos for the national curriculum and the Times Tables and GCSEs because they'd only just come online really. They were sold in Woolworths and Smiths. So I always had Plan B. And then obviously always I was on Countdown. Countdown was doing was Jennifer's biggest show for many many years.

And on the BBC approached me and said, will you host Tomorrow's World? We've done this focus group research. 77% of Google asked. Said that Ed would like you to be the new host of Tomorrow's World. What was wrong with the other 23%? Blimey. I said to my mum at the time, John, I was with the decades.

I said, oh, that's nice. That's really nice. I really love to do that. So we went back to them and then they said, this is the money. I went, okay. But she's got to give up countdown. I went, oh, they're having a laugh.

I've been paid four times more to do countdown than that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Just got that very nicely and saying no. So he went back and said no, so then they came back. You know, it goes backwards and forwards. So in the end, I said yes. And obviously continued on with can't. down as well. Then they started the pressure, which was, we want you to be our biggest female

name in prime time, but you have to give up countdown. I'm not giving up countdown, so can you just back off with that? That's not happening. So I've been doing adverts for aerial washing powder for a while already. And I had a phone call and my manager said, Marmaduke Hussey, who was the then chairman of the BBC, his wife had seen you on this advert and said, this girl shouldn't be. I think she was a lady in waiting, I think, to Queen Elizabeth. This girl shouldn't be doing adverts. Lots of arguments going on. They sacked me.

So I thought that. I was writing in the sun and whoever would let me write for them. I'm not having this. This is picking on a woman. Noel Edmonds, who is doing House Party, is doing Maxwell House Party adverts. Terry Wogan is doing British Gas Adverts. So-and-so is doing this advert.

This is because I'm a woman. I don't, you know, blah, blah, blah. blah, blah, right? So the ratings went down for the show. I wasn't on it by then. And then they came back. They're light entertainment. I said, she's factual entertainment. Back I go. What about Gary Rhodes? He's factual entertainment. He was doing Tate and Lyles Sugar Adverts. He was a chef. Oh, blah, blah, blah. So in the end, all that calmed down. And they cancelled all my BBC shows. I had a column in the radio times. And I thought, my God, I've got plan B. So that was that. And then in the third, and then in the summer, so that was in the march. In this summer, I had a phone call.

We're thinking of offering you your job back, right? So, oh, so after I'd stopped laughing, I said, are you serious? Yeah, I was serious. I have a meeting with the editor. So I had a meeting with the editor in the basement of a hotel called the Halcyon Hotel. I don't know if you remember it in Holland Park. Oh, yeah. I went downstairs and a pile of papers. We've done focus group research. Oh, that's nice. And the audience would think that it was unfair of us to sack you. And so now we want to offer you your job back. I'm like, oh, that's really nice.

You know, I really will consider it. And then he said, this is the killer. He said, but if you tell anyone that we've offered you your job back, we will deny it. I thought, will stuff you. So I played along. And then I rang my manager after. and I said, right, this is what he's said. So what I want you to do is string them along

until a week before transmission is that I'm going to sign and then tell them to stuff off. So I said, I can't work without it. And so that's what happened. You are a very, very bad woman, Carol. I'm astonished. And absolutely disgusted. But your most recent sacking was because you were slagging off the Tories.

I just wonder, where do you think we're at as a country right now? How much sympathy actually do you have for Sarkir Stama as he attempts to navigate a path through the Trump quagmire? Well, there's that. But before the Trump got in, obviously, he had, what was it, about five months before then? And I couldn't believe that I'm not a, I don't vote Labor, by the way. But I wanted to change of government. And obviously, back then, not now, 18 months later,

that then it was a two-party system, more or less. You're either going to have Labor or Tory. And as you know, we set up the Stop the Tories. Dotical Voting website. Best for Britain had theirs. In between us, we had over 6 million people who typed in their postcodes to see who they should vote for in their constituency,

the first-passed post system, to not get a Tory. And those 6 million led to, hugely led to, the shallow but large majority that Labor had. And then we sat back and thought, yes, finally, you know, we're going to have a new system and all these things they promise. Winterfield pain. I think, what are you doing?

You know, I mean, no one is more disappointed with what's happened in those 18 months than at Stop the Tories dot vote. I still prefer then Labor to the Tories. But it was, it's just so shocking. And that was before Donald Trump became a... president in his second term. So there is a poggmyre, but I think Stama's problems are much deeper than that. You're right to say, of course, that it's no longer a two-party race and that reform really do appear to be, well, there are certainly a head in the polls. I mean, I was absolutely captivated yesterday by Nigel Farage and his little bit of trouble with the parliamentary watchdog in terms of his, some of his outside earnings,

not being registered in time. And Farage, Mr Farage, actually said that the reason for this was that his staff hadn't got round to it and quotes, I don't do computers. What do you think of that? He's 61, by the way. I think Nigel Farage is a grifter.

I think he would be the worst thing that could happen to this country. And I would do everything in my power possible to not get a reformed government. That's what I think of Farage. So you probably revive your old campaign again, but call it something else? We're already at it. We're doing it with local elections. And it's interesting since May last year, reform have lost a lot of councillors to other parties. This is in the council by-elections.

And of course, in Carfilly, I'm Welsh. They lost that by-election when all the national media was saying, Oh yeah, reform are likely to get an MP in Wales and so on. And now in the polls in Wales, because we're only four months off, the Senate, the Welsh Assembly elections, which is proportional representation, reform are way down in polls. Clyde Cunbury, our Welsh Independent Party, is leading by a long way. Carol Vorderman, and why I should have mentioned right at the start, is she's got an MBE, something else that's eluded you so far,

eluded us both. Right, goodbye, everybody. Jane and Fee at Times dot radio. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with Jane and Fee. Thank you.

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