Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Book Club - A Town Like Alice

Episode Date: April 3, 2026

We've made it to our eleventh book club edition! We've been inundated with emails for this one, so thank you so much for your engagement. There have been mixed thoughts about Nevil Shute's proper yarn, 'A Town Like Alice'... Plus, the fab Laura Hackett, deputy literary editor and fiction editor across both The Sunday Times and The Times, joins to share her thoughts and bring a touch of class (and a slightly questionable accent...). Thank you so much for your engagement and interaction. We hope you'll join us for the next one. Get your suggestions in at: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A different studio today. Can I have some. Yes, we're in the sports studio, which is just, the air conditioning is pumping in testosterone and a slight kind of aftershave scent. And Jane and I've just disinfected our welcome guest is Laura Hackett. Would you like to disinfect as well? You know, since you're both doing it, I suppose you might as well. Oh yes, no, no, I think you should, Eve make yourself available to the hand sanitizer. put too much on. It's literally dripping. I'm feeling quite tipsy.

I mean, you better remind us of your title, Laura, because this is not an environment you're used to, is it? So, I am the deputy literary editor and fiction editor of The Times and Sunday Time. Is that a promotion? Well, it's an elongation of the name. Okay, good. Why did somebody feel the need to put in and fiction? I guess it's maybe an indication that I tend to do more fiction than nonfiction with reviewing and fiction. commissioning. And is there a non-fiction equivalent of you? No, I mean, I guess there's Robbie, but because he's, it's all a bit boring, is that? No, well, let's not give him any more attention.

You wouldn't want that, would he? We are gathered here today to discuss for the Off-Air Book Club podcast, a town like Alice by Neville Schutt, and one of our lovely listeners suggested we do a reread quite a long time ago, and we did consider some other books, but so many people recommended something by Neville Schute. So here we are. Do you want to shoot? Yes. Laura, you're very young.

Let's just determine how old are you? I'm 28 years old. Honestly, there's no judgment here. Had you heard of Neville Schultz? No, I hadn't. Right, okay. Which I feel terrible because he's written about 25 books. And lots of them, I had heard of On the Beach, which is by him, but I didn't recognize his name.

Okay. Had you heard of the title of Town Like Alice? No. Gosh, I am surprised. Are you surprised? I think it was, we probably know it because it spanned the genres, didn't it? So there was a film in our lifetime. There was a TV series in our lifetime, and there was also the book in our lifetime.

So I think that's probably why it touched more people than it would now. Nobody's made a remake of the film. Nobody's made a remake of the TV series. Not in the last 25 years? No. No, I don't think. I mean, I did, when I looked at the introduction, to my rather lovely vintage shoot edition published by vintage it's very nice um he was born in

1890 so i guess does that mean fee that he's entitled to have some of the incredibly old school entrenched views that manifest themselves in this book what would you say about that well i think yes because i think he's not the only author who writes in his time of his time without questioning his time. I don't think that's unique to Neville Schutt. Quite a lot of our listeners have made the point that weirdly it's a book that has two aspects of prejudice, isn't it? It accepts the prejudice of the time, which is racist.

It is particularly dismissive of Aboriginal people and it's misogynistic too. But actually the underlying theme of the book is of a young woman who challenges the prejudice against her in this country and goes to Australia where she challenges the prejudice there. So it's quite a, I mean, it's by no means a diatribe of racism. He is reflecting the society that he's in and we would like, with our modern heads on,

for there to be far more challenges of some of the things that he writes about, but that's not why he's writing. You come to it fresh, Laura. So what do you think? I think when you're reading it, especially for the first time, there was a lot of language in there that made me feel uncomfortable. It's not the kind of language that we use today and a lot of views that are sort of intrinsic to it, even if they're not necessarily stated out loud.

You can feel them as the kind of underlying structure. But what I would say is also that obviously the character of Jean Padgett, she pushes against those misogynistic views, but also the way in which she survives is by adapting and respecting other cultures. So the way that she survives in Malaya is by kind of adapting to that native culture and you read through it that the way she respects the native people is actually the way in which she survives. And there is that kind of underlying respect, even if it's not exactly extended to the Aboriginal people in Australia, there is a sense of her going, obviously bringing a very Western viewpoint,

but then actually finding some sort of middle ground as well. It's quite, can I just say it in a really old-fashioned way, it's a great yarn. Yes. I mean, I had read it as a child, and I understood reading it again now, why I found it so readable. It propels you into, well, first of all,

into a number of different settings. It starts in, there's an element in Scotland right at the beginning, London, just post-war, which is, I mean, quite well written about, I think, actually. And I quite enjoyed that. It's a rather sort of doughy, stolid place where almost nothing appears to be very much fun. And then it's Australia, but of course the key sections are in wartime Malaya. What did you think, either of you, about the idea of this elderly solicitorial, essentially narrating the story.

I found that that bogged me down and that struck me as being something that would it happen now? What did you think? What was the name of the story? No. No, that's right. I find the opening chapter,

which is almost exclusively about him being a solicitor and the sort of rules and regulations around this will, I thought you'd never get away with that today. An editor would look at that and think, who's this guy? Let's get rid of him. Let's get the action. Yeah, let's give up all this chat about the will

and just get on to the action and there are some bits where it really does stream caudility like later on when the main character is involved in a kind of romantic relationship and she's been writing back letters to this guy but you sort of think would she be telling you all these details? I didn't mind Noel because I thought it's Neville shoots way into the story

and every writer carries a kind of egotistic voice into a story. It's there somewhere in whatever book you read. And that's why people write, isn't it? Because they kind of want to... Is it the great Anise Ninn quote? You write to live twice. So I thought that's what Neville Schuett is doing.

He's putting himself down on the page in order to then feel that he can tell the story. But I found some of the prejudice that Noel feels towards young women. I mean, to me, that is astonishing too. and I think you get slightly kind of overlooked in the book because there's so much else that is more shocking to us as modern readers. But Noel also at the end,

when it's taken him that long to realise that he fancies her. I mean, just go figure. He's in love with her. He's in love. No, but what we're talking about is he fancies a young woman. I mean, that's there and being in love with her, isn't it? But, you know, he has to be told in his club that that's what's happened to him.

and that just made me laugh. He hadn't realised. And, you know, it's good to know that that's what the RAC Club is for. Can I just read down to a certain point in the email from Liz in New Zealand? And actually, I think, and Eve can confirm or deny this, I think we've had more emails about this book than any book we've done. Yes, yeah. So it's definitely, it's caught your whatever.

I started this book before you announced it as the book club pick because you reminded me in an earlier episode how much I like. Neville Schutz, so thank you. I read The Beach. Is it on the beach? And it haunted me for months, so dark. I really like the way shoot writes. I find it quite hypnotic, calming and almost meditative, simple language, no complex, twisty plots or too many characters, just gentle storylines and lots of dialogue to explain new worlds and concepts. If the question here was, has it aged well? I'd have to say no. I was shocked by the racist names for the non-white characters and general viewpoint that the local Malay people and Aboriginals are inferior to the white people and can't be trusted.

The Aborigines in the story barely got any dialogue, let alone character development. Can we forgive this as being of its time or should we have boycotted the book for its racism? And that is a good question. How would you think of that one, Garv? Can you boycott it? I think it's a terrible reminder of how far we've travelled in a way. It's a good thing to be reminded of how we wouldn't judge people in those. I mean, some of the descriptions, the particularly unpleasant one that I'm not going to repeat,

but of an Aboriginal woman when Jean is now living in Australia and being served food by an Aboriginal woman, it's just a, it's absolutely, it leaps out at you as a 21st century individual. And it is utterly horrifying. But nevertheless, can we, can we? Are we allowed... We can't pretend it never happened. We can't pretend that people didn't think like that because we know they did.

I mean, it's horrible, but shouldn't we acknowledge it? I don't know. And I think what's interesting is that the character of Jean is clearly designed to be quite a forward-looking character, even if to us she doesn't seem like that at all. So, for instance, when she decides to open this ice cream parlor, she has a discussion with Joe. We should say, we should point out this is post-war.

This is post-war. She's now living, you're not, this is a spoiler, but you've read the book, hopefully, if you're listening. She's now living in Australia with the love of her life, Joe, who was an Australian soldier who helped them out with food supplies when Jean was leading a group of women and children around Malaya. I mean, it's, if you're quite a lot of back story to get through there. If you haven't read the book, you're going to say, what? But in a way, I can't say I don't recommend it because I sort of do. Anyway, carry on. So she's, as you say, she's living in Australia and she decides.

they decide basically to make this town, Will's town that they're living in, which is this kind of horrible place with nothing in it. And they decide they're going to spruce it up and they're going to add some things, a little factory workshop and also some shops. And she wants to open an ice cream parlor. And they have this conversation about, well, what are they going to do with the Aboriginal customers? And Joe just assumes, well, they won't be served. And Jean then says, no, they will be served.

So I'm actually, I'm going to open a separate counter just for them. And that is in the book, it's clearly meant to be, oh, isn't she so forward thinking? Obviously, there she's maintaining segregation. So to a modern reader, it doesn't feel forward thinking at all, but you can see that at the time... By the standards of the day, yeah, okay. It's also worth saying, and I didn't know this,

that this real story happened, but not in Malaya. It happened in Sumatra, and it happened to a group of Dutch women and children. And quite why Neville Schutt decided to make the central character British. Well, it might well be because he was British, I guess. He also died very young, Neville Schult. He was only 60. That's young, by the way, Laura. That is young. I was quite shocked by that. Let's bring in, who should we start with? Well, Jacob. Jacob just wants to say, I must confess that as a youngish person, I'm 36, that's young, the racist and sexist

attitudes of the time seem quite shocking. Just as this example, I'll give you, he seemed to be a well-educated man, though he spoke with a marked Scots accent. That really got to me. I'd no idea that people look down on Scottish folk like that. Well, if you think that's the worst in the book, Jacob, you're obviously not completely finished. I should say that Jacob's just got off a cruise where he read a town like Alice. That's nice, isn't it? Fabulous.

Yeah. This one comes in from Anne in County Durham. Obviously, you need to put into context the sexist and racist attitudes of the characters and appreciate it was written in a different time. I don't know when women were finding. allowed in bars in Australia or when Aboriginal people were able to mix freely with whites. But it is good to think that things have moved on. The attitude towards a woman's ability to manage her own finances was almost laughable.

But once all of that is put into context, the story was so lovely, it was worth reading. I hadn't read the book before or seen the film. I gasped when Jean discovered that Joe hadn't died and was rooting for them to get together from that point on. What a beautiful love story. I loved the way the story was narrated by Noel, again the social history aspect of his daily housekeeper and visits to his club, the ladies' lounge, where eye-raising, but his care for Jean and Joe

and his key role in their lives brought the story together beautifully. The rich description of the suffering in Malaya and then of life in the outback were wonderful. I felt I was right there. I think it's definitely a book I will reread in future, and I would be recommending it to any friends who've not read it. Okay, Rachel was unimpressed, and says, I live in Alice Springs.

I mean, that's, well, we need your import. I was actually excited about this book club choice at first because I thought it would be about Alice Springs. If it had been, it would have been way more interesting. Yes, it's a town like Alice, but not actually Alice, of course. It was actually insipid and predictable about a privileged white woman with loads of money setting up various businesses and doing a lot of travel

because she had loads of money. No struggle, no tension, no plot twists. I guess the bloke coming back from the table, dead was kind of a plot twist. Kind of. But the second they met, you knew they were going to get together, so it felt a bit contrived. Well, I mean, I'd take some issue with that. She didn't have a lot of money to start with. In fact, she'd had rather a sad life and certainly a tough World War II experience, no doubt about that. And I do think she was struggling then, no doubt about it.

I thought the most interesting part was the wartime stuff and the struggles being marched around Malaya. But it was all plot and no characterisation. Even all the people dying was described in an emotionalist and humdrum way. Actually, I do, I take that, Rachel. You're absolutely right there. On the Tuesday, this is Rachel again, Little Clara died. We arrived in a village and Mrs Holland died. Four children died of something else. I thought it was very dull. Okay. P.S. Alice Springs Town was built by displacing and marginalising indigenous people on their own land. I know Neville was of his time, that the characters only encountered two indigenous people in the whole book,

quite a feat in the outback. And one was named after a brand of soap. I mean, yeah, this is, which is the kind of degrading and cutesy nicknames that Aboriginal people have been lumbered with for 200 years. Look, there's a lot of concerning stuff in this book because of the time in which it was written. No denying that at all. Yeah.

I'd be interested actually to hear a few more views from our Australian listeners. We have many, many, many of them, just as to where Neville Schutz stands in the pantheon of Australian authors. Well, I suppose he's not Australian. Yeah, but he's writing about a lot about Australia. I don't think I'll have a little blurb here. It said he moved to Australia. He moved to Australia because he didn't like the high taxation in the UK after the war.

Robert Kilroysel. Gosh, there's a note I haven't heard for a while. But his writing, Jane, is so more relevant to an Australian reader than it is to us. I suppose that's true. And Glenn has asked for this. as well. He says, I was recommending the book to a friend. I'd suggest that they stop reading at the point where Jean and Joe reunited on the runway of Cairns Airport, because from that point it morphs into an uncomfortable read, which I didn't remember at all from previous reading.

My main issues in the second half were the racism shown to Aboriginal people, which is horrifying, I'm sure it's accurate at the time and place. What disappointed me was that Gene, who was in the first half of the book, showing considerable empathy and respect to the native Malay people, and even to some degree to her Japanese guards never challenges this racism. Indeed, she's happy to establish an apartheid system in her ice cream parlour. It will be interesting to hear your Aussie listeners' perspective

on this aspect of the book. And actually he details another couple of things that we probably should talk about too. To tick another prejudice box, Jean then goes on to turn down a 19-year-old job applicant because she looked like a slut. At this point, I suspected, she'd soon be standing for UKIP.

Why was Jean covered in bruises the night after her fairly innocent ron with Joe in the beach hut? Now we do need to talk about that. I do. I did not remember that actually at all from when I read this as a child. Not at all. No, me neither. Me neither. And so why didn't we note that?

Because it was so, it's shocking because of the way that it is quite glibly said. Oh, you know, we've had kind of rough sex and I've got bruises all over my body. I got the impression they hadn't had sex that night. No, but they've had romp, haven't they? I mean, the man had been deprived of sex for years, you see, Fee, by this woman selfishly moving to the other side of the world after the war. To be fair, she did think he was dead. Anyway, when they encounter each other again, she was wearing a sarong,

and that's all she's wearing. I mean, what's a man to do? And he's, the language is weird, isn't it? Because she kind of, she is allowing him to make her feel bad about not putting out. Yeah, because, I mean, hey, he's waited. He's waited a long time, and he's going to have to wait some more, which is a terrible, terrible thing. It wouldn't pass muster in 2026.

There's also a bit the next morning when she wakes up, having not had sex with him, and she says she realizes that she's escaped to fear worse than death. And I think you spent about three years marching around Malaya with everyone dying and then watch someone being crucified. And this is the feat worse than death. I mean, I know that's of its time. But I was shocked. There is a lot that's shocking.

Let's just bring in another listening. In Australia, this is Rose in Melbourne. Not such a great book, this. I'm concentrating on the Australian section because it felt to me there was more than one book here. Gene goes to war. Gene goes to the outback. Gene's amazing river rescue.

I'm really having... I do get this, yeah. I'm having problems understanding why it's been so popular for so long. Perhaps it was the television series and the perfectly cast Brian Brown are made to measure laconic blow and perhaps some judicious editing of the original story.

Well, I do remember, I don't remember Gene in the TV series at all. I couldn't tell you who the actress also played her, but I do remember Brian, so that's quite a telling email. He's definitely got something, Brian Brown. I mean, we can talk about this, but Laura hasn't got a clue what we're on about. And I tell you what, he'll definitely want to put that in this epituary. He's got something. Let's have more from Rose.

Was shoot ever in the episode? outback for more than a beer at the bar near the landing strip. The outback is not just a very big place. It's a place where people drive for hours in wonderment at its endless majesty. It is quite sensational. The rivers in the wet can be mile-wide torrents that only a dope tries to cross. But while Jean once expressed enchantment on the way to Midhurst, this sentiment was crammed between the measurements of the roadside eucalyptus trees and the biological difference between wallabies and kangaroos. So for the reader at least, we were back to process over prose. Schute seems to love data.

The book isn't about the outback towns in all the people in them or the integration of a recent migrant into the warp and weft of a new place. It's about a girl's own, crackingly competent Englishwoman who arrives to make things better in what she sees as an ugly town. Rose, I think that's a withering but excellent assessment. Thank you very much. Laura, what do you think of Neville-Schutz's style of writing because it is of its time and some of that of its timeness is about a much more kind of

simple linear way of writing, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, actually, I thought that was quite funny that point about how much he loves data. So he was an aeronautical engineer before he became a novelist and you can really tell this is a guy that loves maths because so much of this book is just chatting about, okay, well, if we put this much into this workshop, then, and we pay each member of staff this much, we can expect this much profit. And then we'll put that into the ice cream parlour. And there's also a lot about distance. Oh my goodness. And when they're doing that big journey, you think, okay, there is the aeronautical engineer. He can't help himself. But I suppose thinking about it on a kind of sentence level rather than

the subject he's covering. I actually quite liked the simplicity of the probe. I did too. I thought the direct style had a kind of addictive quality. So sometimes I resent having to read certain books. I didn't resent reading this. I felt really quite invested in the fate of the characters for all the difficulties around the text at times. Yeah.

So there is something about his... I mean, I have to say I haven't read on the beach for a long time. If there... I don't think now would be a bad time to do a remake of On the Beach. I really don't. And I think Neville shoots water, because I made a note of this, he was too old to serve in the Second World War, but he did work in the Naval Reserve, apparently.

And he was working on, quote, secret weapons. So I wonder whether his experience in World War II led him to have genuine fears of a nuclear apocalypse, hence on the beach, which is written in the same direct and very simple style and is terrifying. I think maybe now is exactly not the time to read that. Just think if I can find an audience.

Yes. I think read that in happier times. He did actually write an autobiography about being an aeronautical engineer, not about being a writer called Slide Rule. So if you're particularly intrigued, I have to say, by the end of it, I thought I don't want to read any more about planes, but the options there. Right. Yes, thank you for that.

Slide Rule. I'm almost making a note. A lot of people just felt this was a nostalgic read. It kind of was for me, really, if I'm honest. Louise says my late dad's favourite author was Neville Shute. So when I told my mum about the book club choice, she turned up with all my old dad's shoot books, including a town like Alice.

They're all well-read, well-thumbed, some clearly read in the bath and some with pages missing. I finished my dad's old copy of the book, and I felt compelled to write. I honestly hadn't thought of this author since my 20s. Now in my early 60s, it was a trip down memory lane, bringing back some wonderful memories of my dad and the times when I was reading these books

first back in the 1980s when we all held life more lightly and all had less baggage. I sobbed on numerous occasions remembering my wonderful dad and the joy and light he brought to all those who loved him. Well that's nice.

I'm glad we brought back some positive memories for you Louise. This one in from Susan McCormick who says I absolutely loved it. I love buttoned up Noel, the solicitor who these days would be in trouble for befriending Jean for what turned out to be a mutually pleasant

and harmless relationship but of course it was the 50s so nothing weird would ever occur it was interesting that Noel was the narrator to what was Jean's story and what about Jean's bruises after Joe had had a fumble good God that was brushed off by shoot

but with all its creakingly repressed vibes it was like watching a really good black and white film I think that's quite a good way of putting it isn't it? And Susan goes on to say I spent eight weeks four by four and camping in the north of Australia, where small children learn to drive to the roadside to pick up the school bus as their driveway is about eight miles long. I was told they attach bricks to their shoes so they can reach the pedals. I'd like to know if this is just an urban myth.

What? So I'd tell you what did make you laugh. I'm sure it is when Jean, when she realized she was going to have to drive a great big truck for the first time to go and rescue Joe, who'd somehow miraculously survived devastating injury miles away. and she just managed to do it. Just by sheer force of will, she got in there and drove that car. But it wasn't even a car. It was a massive kind of axle-breaking truck,

the pedals crunching all the way through the gears. And you just think that is, that's ridiculous. And then she has to ride a horse for 40 miles. And then I go to hospital because she's so exhausted. Yes, yep, and because she's chafed so much. Nice detail, level. Yeah, she was brave, but never quite adjusted to steak and eggs for breakfast. But honestly, who would?

You wouldn't be able to tackle a big steak and some eggs for breakfast. No, but that brought it strangely up to date with the protein-rich diet. That's true nowadays. I thought that. It's quite Jordan Peterson, isn't it? We found something modern in the book. Lots of you did like it. We need to make this clear. I really love this, says Holly. Though it's described as a ripping yarn of a love story, I think that diminishes it.

It is so much more. From a 2026 standpoint, Jean is a really impressive young woman, so I can only imagine the impact of such a character to read us back in the 50s. Her good sense, her courage, her leadership, her independence, her generosity and kindness are a constant throughout the book,

and she wins the hearts of women and men, young and old. I enjoyed the development of the relationship between Noel and Jean, and though some of the attitudes and practices towards women are outdated, patronising and demeaning, they were, I imagine. very much of the time.

Since finishing this book, I've gone on to read Most Secret and Requiem for a Wren as I've found something strangely comforting in the language and the history of this post-war era. So there you go, there's another person who's delved into more chute.

So, Laura, as you're far, far closer in age to Jean as the protagonist, can you try and imagine if we take away all of the things that we now know to be wrong and that are deeply offensive? if you had been reading this book when it was published, would you have found her to be a believable heroine to you,

somebody who you would have gone, oh my gosh, look at what that young woman has pushed back against and achieved? Well, I actually, the thing that I find really interesting, and I don't know whether it's kind of the way that the book has portrayed this or whether people were actually like that in the 1950s is, no one ever complains about anything. Like they're on the road, they're walking 20 miles a day, barefoot, getting stung by these poisonous creatures.

And dying. Dying. Having dysentery and fevers, dengue fever. And they're literally sitting at the side of the road dying and they don't want to make a fuss. They're British. But I feel like today people would make a fuss. I mean, I would make a fuss. I'd be crying.

I mean, it would be awful. And I think that was the thing. thing that really got to me. I thought obviously it's very heroic. There's something very powerful about it, but I just thought, I can't imagine that being written today. I'm now going back to that thing about them. They weren't actually British. They were Dutch. Yeah. And also, I know it's a story and lots of people in British people were tremendously heroic during World War II. I absolutely own it. But I do find it odd that you're right, that there was that stoicism that was simply absurd, actually. And his lack of interest in the

regular deaths on this route march around Malaya, but really Sumatra, quite extraordinary. I mean, there are bits where they're burying three people, but then they managed to get some mangoes from the local village. So they cheer up. Yeah, we all cheer it up that evening. And actually, the exercise is doing us quite a lot of good. And I was just like, oh my goodness. Is this what people were like? It's kind of incredible in a way. It's the spirit of that wartime song, which I love the title of this. Yes, we have no bananas. No, we still don't have any bananas. But in answer to your question, I think that was what people were like.

And it was particularly how women were trained to be. And these women have had their lives completely uprooted from probably parts of the home counties and they found themselves living in a place that then becomes terrifying to them. But I think we should recognise just what an extraordinary, kind of suit of armour, they're all in with their British manners. And it's so extraordinary, isn't it, that they've taken that to situations where you would have thought, break out, loves, just break out. Jean is the only one who breaks out and tries to do something differently.

So I think it does say something terrible about British deicism and our attachment to it. Let's bring in Lisa in Colorado. I read every Aussie's words in my head in fees. Australian voice and accent, which I thought was entertaining. Also, very satisfying, the happy ending. Although I think Noel should have stayed. Yes. Towards the end of the book, Noel gets the offer, a very generous offer from this young couple,

to stay with them in Australia and he decides, as a proper British man would, to go back to blighting. Well, he's got a veiled chop waiting from the club, G-R-A-C club. Although, of course, as we now know, Neville Shoot, Norway, that was his real name, did live in Australia, and that's where he died. after a series of heart attacks apparently. Anyway, about halfway through, Lisa and Colorado says,

I realize the book reminded me of Maeve Binchie's novels. The characters are decent people who want to do the right things, and they have a systematic way of working their way through obstacles to gratifying conclusions. Lisa, I love Mave Binchie. I couldn't really see any similarity between this and the great Mave Binchie, but maybe that's just me.

The one huge voice, and we should recognize this, that is missing from our conversation, is an Aboriginal voice, a First Nation voice. If you are that person and have some thoughts about Devilshoot, we would be really interested in hearing those two. Laura, it's always a pleasure. Thank you so much for taking the time to read our Book Club books as well because I know that you have quite a stack for your real job.

And one day, maybe we could make it into your very long title. So you could become Laura Hackett, Deputy Literary and Fiction in Brackets. and podcast book editor. Oh, I like that. At the Times and Sunday Times. It trips off the tongue. It does, yeah. Yes, it does.

We should just mention a lot of people say that they can't stand the fact that Joe says, oh my word all the time. Oh, all the time. Oh, my word. Every second page. I can't. I'm just not going to do an Australian accent.

Not after that. Yeah, that was maybe regrettable. I don't know. It's gone out there now. There's nothing we can do about it. Cancelled. It was a really good idea to do this book. So thank you to the listener who suggested it.

And I think maybe we should, should we go retro next time? What should we do? I don't know. Oh, I don't know. We need to think of something, don't we? Because this one really got people going. Honestly, so many people really enjoyed it for its yarn ability. And other people were horrified by some of the content, but still enjoyed it anyway.

Yeah, lots to talk about. That's what we like. Yeah, that is what we like. Anyway, we'd love to hear your ideas. We must end now because I can sense that there's real interest in us leaving this room. My hand sanitiser is run out. Absolutely. Laura, thank you very much.

Thank you. If you want to lob in another suggestion, it is, of course, Jane and Fee at times. dot radio. It's about a cookbook. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another

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