Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Book Club - An Elderly Lady Is Up to No Good

Episode Date: March 1, 2024

Jane and Fi are back with their fourth book club - and this one is causing some revelations...An Elderly Lady Is Up to No Good is written by Helene Tursten, who joins Jane and Fi to talk about creating her character, Maud. Thank you so much for your engagement and interaction. We hope you'll join us for the next one.Get your suggestions in at: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiAssistant Producer: Kate LeeTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to our book club. Actually, is this number four? It is. It is number four. Okay, and we have travelled the world in this book club. We have done France, we've done Nigeria, we've done Australia, and now we've found ourselves in? Gothenburg in Sweden. That's right, for a tiny little book. And that's some of you who have emailed to say that it was just the right size, just the right length. Some people think it is, you don't get enough bang for your buck. Exactly that.

An Elderly Lady is Up to No Good is the title of the tome and it's written by a woman called Helen Turston and translated into English by Marlene DeLarge. I hope that's correct. People who translate books do deserve credit always don't they? Because it's not the easiest. No. And it's a tricky job isn't it? Because I think it's one of those jobs where

people are probably only going to notice when they think something's wrong not when they think all the rest of it is right. I never know how much licence people translating books have. Presumably they can't alter too much, but they must actually have an impact. And it's hard to know who gets to decide, because presumably it's being translated into English because Helene didn't fancy translating it herself.

She's the only person who'd really know the true direction of a sentence. But Helen does speak English because you're going to hear from her during the course of this podcast. So true. Do you want to just do a quick summary of the plot of the book, such as it is? Because it's not actually a typical book. Such as it is. No, because it's not a book. It such as it is no because it's not a it's not a

book it's not uh uh you know uh method results conclusion novel no i mean we probably ought to say that helene tursten um is a successful swedish author and um she'd written other stuff before she turned to maude and created her and i think in the course of the conversation we have with her you'll find out why she created maude it was for a specific task she'd been set but she's the hit author of two mystery series uh set in Sweden uh all around the detective Irene Hus and then she came up with another lead character Embla Nistrom um and wrote books about her investigations as well so she's a highly successful and much respected Swedish author. But Maud is at the centre of this book. And it's the first in a series, isn't it? Because there

are a couple about Maud. An elderly lady is up to no good, and then an elderly lady must not be crossed. Is it just the two books about Maud? Well, I think she does say in the interview, doesn't she, that more are coming and that those have already been bought up and we might be seeing them on the silver screen as well. So they're hugely popular. The elderly lady is Maud and we meet her. We don't find out huge amounts about her backstory, do we? But enough to understand that it's been a quite difficult life. And we're meeting her in her 80s, aren't we?

Yes, she's at a very advanced age. I think she's 88, isn't she? And she had a sister who had been incredibly unwell as a child. And so you're led to believe at several points during the stories that that's had a huge impact on her, actually, and probably rather curtailed her own development actually as a child but then her sister had died in adult life and maude's family had also fallen on hard times so they were a wealthy family with quite a lot to show for it and suddenly all of the money had gone

and it's as we join maude it's 40 years since her sister has died and she's living not quite rent free is she but she's living in a rather nice place that she's getting as a reduced rent yes which is the last kind of thing that her family owned or kind of could lay claim to although actually we then discover that there's an enormous amount of silver and some very precious paintings in the apartment bit of a girl is Maud. Lots of question marks about her. And it really, again, it's a great choice for a book club because it's properly divided opinion. And we cannot thank you enough for taking part.

And really, honestly, it's slightly surprising to me that so many people are prepared to do it because I'm a lazy sod. So I'm always really impressed that other people put the work in. So it's janeandfee at times.radio, and that's the email address for any message you have for us. But we're particularly grateful to all those people who took part in this. I just want to mention this really brief email from Rachel.

I listened to the free audio book. This was another way of listening. You could listen to Helen's book on Audible, if you remember, and it actually came free on Audible. Just as the one show is Blue Peter for adults, this book I thought was pippy long stocking for grownups, mildly amusing, hardly great literature. And yet there were people who thought that, but there were also people who really loved it. We have got as many emails liking it, and liking it for its kind of

idiosyncrasies as well. So it is just, physically, it's a tiny book. It's about half the size of a normal book. And I think it's only 184 pages long. People have really, really loved that. People have found Maud to be very entertaining, a very good creation, because actually it doesn't all get resolved in the end and she doesn't get her just desserts.

Justice is not served on her. She just carries on her wicked ways. And then we've got exactly the same number of people who just found it incredibly irritating. It didn't go far enough. They were annoyed that there wasn't a resolution, there wasn't enough of a backstory. And also that these stories are quite repetitive

because the kind of MO of maude is the same every time she meets somebody who really annoys her and then she kills them but i mean again some people are making a very serious point that um elderly women women in general can be dismissed they can certainly be the victims of violent crime as can men it's just more likely actually it's not more likely that it's women is it it's just that we tend to fetishize the murders of women than men but there is no doubt that women are in the world are quite vulnerable and maude just turns this on its head and you can't well people do ignore her and they do dismiss her um but can i just say they were wrong to do so, as it turns out.

Shall we read some of these emails? I'm going to go with a couple of people who didn't really like it, which might leave you to do the sunshine areas. Are you happy with that? Yes, because I specialise in sunshine areas. OK. This coming in from Celia. I was very much enjoying the book,

thought the old lady was quirky, horrific, amusing and frustrating in equal measure. I loved the fact that it wasn't a difficult or complicated read, but then it ended so abruptly. I felt like the author had literally been told, time's up, if you can finish your sentence and put your pen down. So I was very frustrated as I wanted so much more. It felt incomplete and left me wanting more of an explanation or a resolution. Then I discovered there was another book and bought it and read it quickly. I can honestly tell you I now feel like I've read a proper book. I feel so much more satisfied and so much more positive about having a satisfying ending.

I can't recommend the second book enough. The Old Lady Redeems Herself. So that's interesting, isn't it? We're reading something at the beginning. And this one comes from Wendy. Disappointing is the word I'd use for the latest book. I think you must have been fooled by the title. Well, the title is superb.

I prefer to read a book, but as this one is only in hardback, I use the audiobook as it's free with Audible. That gave a clue that if they were giving it away, it couldn't be that much good. But can I just say, in defence of Audible, that's not true in my experience. There's some quite good stuff that's free. I'm not speaking for Audible. Although if they were to offer me money, I would. Please offer her money. Richard Osman does these older person crime stories so much better. Please can the next choice be available in paperback and be a little bit more challenging? some good ones please yeah well we've heard the paperback message haven't we and um i think we

probably would acknowledge that that yeah that was something we got wrong this time so apologies for that uh louise in hampshire says i can see why people wouldn't be keen on this story as maude never gets her comeuppance but i I liked how different it was. I especially appreciated the different depiction of an older lady that it gave us. If older ladies do get a look in on TV and in books, they're usually sweet old ladies dishing out nuggets of wisdom. Granted, maybe making her a heartless serial killer was something of an overcorrection. I'm 33 and fortunate enough to still have my gran with us. While she's not up to anything illegal that I know of, she is certainly not a bland, demure old lady. So it was really good to see an older woman

with some individuality presented in the book. I'm really looking forward to hearing what others think, says Louise. And I'm glad, thank you, Louise, for that. And I think it's really important, that point you make, that they are just benign little dollops, twinkly little white-haired biddies who bestride the cultural landscape. And, you know, old people can be really horrible.

I mean, they really can. They can say horrible things, they can do horrible things. They can be horrible, just like the rest of us. And there is quite a lot of evidence, isn't there, that in much older women, that kind of nurturing niceness atrophies into something quite unpleasant. So I think maybe Helene has put her finger on it.

There was something in brackets from Hampshire. Louise from Hampshire, the county says hi, Fee. Thank you. I was just going to ignore that. Did you spot that your sight's not as bad as you make out no i just wanted to say hello back uh so this one uh describes that this is beata who's listening in nova scotia in canada complete tosh thankfully only spent three hours on it and beata has done a numbered review i do like that actually i love a bullet point

number one every murder conveniently facilitated by hard or sharp surfaces I do like that, actually. I love a bullet point. I suspect quite often they are, though, aren't they? I thought that was a good point but cctv and what they always now do in crime fiction they triangulate your mobile phone signal don't they in order to find out where you were and it just takes away some of the magic it certainly takes away all of the legwork that the detectives can be doing and the use of the little grey cells doesn't it? It does. I think Maud, she's not operating in the present day is she? No. It's actually, it is in that lovely kind of space isn't it

where you can't hugely identify what era she's actually living in and I really loved the descriptions of Gothenburg and of the apartment in particular so I'm imagining this rather kind of Manhattan style red brick mansion with big apartments in it and I don't know whether that's actually the reality of buildings in Sweden but it's all beautifully described I really like

all the settings it's all very lovingly described um Marion says um my feeling was that the reader was supposed to feel let down at the end of this book. I think it was the author's way of saying, sometimes people do get away with bad deeds, as did the old lady all her life, with no price to be paid by her for her actions. When we read a book like this,

we expect there to be a neat conclusion that fits with wrongs being righted, which they were in some cases throughout this book, but mostly just for the old lady to have things her own way, leaving you feeling that she should have paid some kind of price for her actions. Marion's right. I mean, often we're always told we like crime fiction because we like things to be resolved and tied up. We are frightened by the initial crime and then we are comforted by the knowledge, usually at the end of most crime books,

that the killer's been caught and that we don't need to feel quite so worried anymore. But it doesn't happen in this case. But there are hints, aren't there? Because as you get to the end of the book, there is a canny policewoman who clearly sees Maude for who she is, but she gets overruled in her desire to carry on the investigation. She's a woman of course. Yeah and maybe that's where

book two picks up. But that's another good point about women being overlooked isn't it? Because the female detective is dismissed. Yeah she is. She's not listened to. So did you like it? Did I ask a good question? I wouldn't know. I don't think I'll be reading any more about Maud.

I wonder whether it will make a really interesting, quite expensively done TV series. It might. It will obviously depend on who's cast as Maud. And I don't know whether Judi Dench would fancy a trip to Gothenburg, but I would imagine it would be someone of that ilk. It would need a properly good actress to transport you to the serial killing world of Maud

because she is she's being really evil and she does need to for the viewer to want to go with her the viewer in this case she needs to have a real twinkle doesn't she I don't know how likable she seemed no because also what what's intriguing about it is that the people who she she kills are not people who you as the reader have been encouraged to dislike or distrust exactly so so your sympathies are all over the place yeah yeah yeah what i did like was the fact that here was a counterintuitive uh lady uh getting up to all sorts of unpleasant things uh and i'm not suggesting that it's the way forward for britain's older women um life and serial killer lane uh isn't ideal uh because you will be caught now with the cctv and rightly

because it's not good yep i liked her but i didn't i didn't like her enough to forgive what she was doing but i also really wanted to know a bit more about her family life because the way that the story was told especially about her engagement so she had fallen in love hadn't she but then when the parents of her betrothed realized that the family didn't have any money after the death of her parents they called off the engagement on her behalf. So there was this kind of build up, you could understand why she was bitter. And also having a sibling who takes up all of the oxygen in the room, and all of the attention. And then after your parents die, you have to step into that caring role. I thought those two things were really intriguing. And I wanted to know

more about that, basically, so I could like Maud more. But that's quite a canny depiction of what life actually does to you. It can knock you around, and there isn't that. Oh, my God, she's turned the negatives into a positive. Maud doesn't, though, does she? No, she doesn't. She sticks on the negative. She goes with the negative and makes it into a gigantic ball of murder.

Actually, this is from Liz. The protagonist was elderly and because of her age was just too often dismissed as a possible culprit. Unfortunately, the elderly are often too invisible. So for me, this book was really clever, an entertaining vehicle for mirroring the frequent perception of older members of society. Sadly, just not worth worrying about.

It's a great little book, says Liz. And there are lots of people who just say, actually, it might be small, but it packs a punch, this. It really does. That's what Jill, long-time listener, says. What an awesome pick for book club. I would never have read it otherwise. A perfect snack-sized read,

easily consumed in a single sitting, or eked out by grazing a story at a time. Is there a little bit of maud in all of us? Though impulse control is a good thing. Jill puts that in brackets. I'd underline that, actually, Jill. And Jill wants to give a shout out to Sydney City Libraries Australia for having this book on their shelves.

We would like to apologise for the fact that this proved to be a difficult book to get hold of for our listeners. And, you know, note to self, we'll make sure that the next one is available anywhere. It'll probably be the Bible left by the Gideons. Oh, I'd struggle with that because that isn't short. Well, the Gideon Bible's a bit shorter, isn't it? Do they still have them in every single...

I don't know. Could someone check for us? Yeah. I think it... I suspect not, but I might be wrong. Yeah. Okay. Do they have them in Airbnbs? No, there's no. You just have everybody else's books, which is always really interesting. Just E.L. James, The Missus. Still best book of the last decade. Hey, listeners, want to diversify your portfolio easily? The all-in-one ETFs from Fidelity Investments Canada lets you do just that. Each ETF provides exposure to stocks, bonds, and crypto so you can potentially maximize your return. It's essentially like getting a complete portfolio in one trade. Visit fidelity.ca slash all-in-one and find the ETF that's right for you.

Commissions, fees, and expenses may apply. Read the fund or ETFs perspectives before investing. Funds and ETFs are not guaranteed. Their values change and past performance may not be repeated. Isn't it time we brought in Helen Turstin? Yes, author of An Elderly Lady is Up to No Good. For the benefit of our listeners, can you just tell us a little bit about your life without writing, if you see what I mean, so before you became a writer? Okay. I was born in Gothenburg on the western coast of Sweden.

western coast of Sweden. At first, I worked as a nurse for some years, and then I went to university and became a dentist. I worked as a dentist for about 10 years, but then I was struck by a rheumatic illness, and I couldn't go on working as a dentist because you need to be strong in your hands. And I wasn't that anymore. So after some years, I realized I had to do something else. And I have always been reading a lot. And my husband, a lot. And my husband is also a dentist, but before he went to university, he worked as a policeman for six years. So I thought, what will I write? I love crime novels. And I thought, I will write about a female police woman with a quite ordinary life, but an exciting job. And that's when I started to write a serial about Irene Huss. So when did you then decide that you would kind of cross over to the other side and write about somebody who's committing crimes, not solving them? To be honest, Maud came to me and I wrote the first short story about Maud

at 2011. It's a funny story because I had promised a publishing house to write a short story for an anthology with Christmas stories. And I totally forgot about it because I had so much to do. I was working on a new book. I was traveling in Europe, even in the United States. And I forgot about it. And then one week before deadline, I remembered, my God, I was to write a story for that anthology. What am I to write about? I did not have an idea.

And all of a sudden, she stood beside me, an old lady with white hair. And she said, why don't you write about me? And I thought, why should I write about an old lady? And then I looked into her eyes and I got goosebumps. And I know, yes, I'm going to write about that lady. Because Maud is no ordinary old lady. And frankly... Can I take it seriously? Is she a

psychopath? Not a psychopath, no. My daughter, she is a psychologist. No, what was the English word? Psychologist? Psychiatrist? Yes. She says that she has elements in her personality

that she's a borderline personality and maybe some parts of a sociopath because she's acting very normal towards other people. No one can suspect that she's a murderer. And then she has the other side. And she's calculating very coldly then she has the other side. And she's calculating very coldly how to murder other persons. She's not a serial killer. It's very important to say. She's a

mass murderer because she has murdered more than two people. She's a mass murderer because a serial killer has sexuality in murdering others, to have a victim, to do things with a victim before, during and after the killing. Murder has nothing like that. She is simply solving her problems when she feels that other people are problems.

And then she strives. And if you were to write about her as a younger woman, would she have the same kind of tendencies? Yes, I had written about her as a younger woman because there are two books about Maud. woman, because there is two books about Maud. And in the other book, the English title is An Elder Lady with Dark Secrets, I think. There, I write some stories about Maud as a younger woman. Yes, she has been doing this for many years. I love the fact that the book contains details of the food that she eats. I'm always really interested in what characters in books eat.

And I love that kind of ordinariness of them deciding what they're going to have. And Maud will eat after a crime, won't she? She'll settle down with some lovely Christmas ham, for example, or something like that. Yes. She's not so interested in food, I think, but she likes to have ordinary good food and some wine and a beer and maybe a gin and tonic.

That's good. There was something quite tantalising towards the end of An Elderly Lady is Up to No Good, where I felt as a reader that you as the writer almost wanted Maud to get caught, but she doesn't get caught, does she? Is that so you can carry on writing about her?

Yes, but I think I wanted to write about how she uses her age and as a disguise, you could say. She is old and she plays like she doesn't hear so good, that she's a bit half-demented, and like a very old woman can be. She's not that at all, of course, but in front of the police, she always acts like that. And they think, oh, she can't have done anything, she's so old. Yes, no, they dismiss it, don't they? Statistically, across the world, are old women the least likely people to commit murder? Yes. They are. Okay. So, Maud would be a real outlier.

Yes. She started quite young. I think her first murder was committed when she was 25 or something like that. And I write about that in the second. Right. So, I mean, it doesn't say a lot for the authorities in your home country, I have to say. Do you think they would have caught her in real life? I'm not so sure. She's very clever. Will you write more of Maud as an old woman? Actually, I had written some weeks ago a new short story, but that is a plot for one of

the films. What is going to be filmed is a producer from America who has bought the rights. They are preparing for films. They asked me, could you write some more short stories? So it's not for publishing in magazines, anthologies, it's a film. And does it make you as a writer feel more comfortable about getting old or slightly more fearful about getting old yourself? about getting old or slightly more fearful about getting old yourself?

I hope I won't be like Maude. Please don't be. I'm 70, so I'm not better. No, but there's something rather comforting, I think. I mean, I know she does very bad things, but she does bad things to people who are quite annoying. So there's something quite comforting, I think, in writing an elderly woman with power, you know, which gives us all something to look forward to. But I may be revealing my

own psychopathic tendencies now, so I'll stop. Helene Tursten, and we're very grateful to her for coming on. And it'll be intriguing to watch the series when it comes out. So far, two out of four of the books we've chosen have become available or will be available on the big screen. Are you thinking that the Cemetery one might ever come to Netflix? No, I'm not. I think that's a missed opportunity. I think it might be made into one of those fabulously moody

and not especially obviously entertaining French films. Because, after all, it couldn't get any more French, could it? It was very French indeed. It really was. French cinema is a world all of its own. I don't like French cinema. And actually, in that culture fix thing that I did for the newspaper upstairs. Just explain what that was.

Oh, so it's just, you've done it, haven't you? No, I've never been asked. Well, it's coming your way. They just ask you lots of questions, what you're reading and all of that kind of stuff. Okay. And they ask you what you could kind of do without, and I said, French cinema. Because it's just old men and young bosoms. That is the celebration in French cinema. Because it's just old men and young bosoms. That is the celebration in French cinema.

I don't want to see, I just don't want to see either of those things anymore. But in defence of Freshwater for Flowers, I think it was slightly different, wasn't it? Yes, it wasn't. It wasn't Gerard Depardieu and Alain Delon having a fondle. No.

Well, not with each other. More is the pity. Not that I'd want to see that either, by the way. So the reason for mentioning the culture of fix is because it was out there and quite a few people did say you're just a real heathen. You just don't understand it at all.

And that's the other thing I hate about French cinema. What can I just say? It's used as this kind of weapon against people you just don't understand. Je comprends pas. And I don't. Well, I'm completely with you. I was going to say sister.

What's the French for that? Sir. Sir. Yeah, it doesn't really work. That doesn't work at all. But I'm with you. Tant pis. Debbie says...

Sorry, what? Too bad. Tant pis? Is it tant pis? I don't know. Okay. People will know. Sorry, what? Too bad. Tampie? Is it Tampie? I don't know. Okay. People will know.

Debbie, I want to say a huge thank you for introducing me to the author, Ellen Tursten. I devoured An Old Lady is Up to No Good. I loved it. And I went straight on to An Old Lady Must Not Be Crossed, which was also extremely satisfying. It may be my age, but I love reading about a super smart and underestimated old woman disposing of some fairly unpleasant people yeah that was fee's point earlier they are only fairly unpleasant uh without being caught even today women are

frequently underestimated and when you get to my age 62 you're also invisible so i'm afraid to say i was somewhat cheering on the psychopathic old lady as she delivered her own style of retribution. I'm now going to start reading Hélène's Detective Inspector Huss series. So thank you so much for finding me a new author to follow. And that's great. If we put you on to Hélène's wider work, wider body of work, then I think that's a job done. That's really good.

Yep. Sue is in Chalfont, St Peter. Wanted to join... Can I just say,. Yep. Sue is in Chalfont, St Peter. Wanted to join... Can I just say, I welcome any correspondence from the Chalfonts. Because there are quite a few, aren't there? So it's the cockney rhyming slang, isn't it, for piles? Because there's a Chalfont, St Giles.

Yes, there is. So how are you, Chalfonts? I've only got one. Is it called Peter? I'll tell you what I call it. Anyway, carry on. Wanted to join in with your excellent book club this month. It was a pleasingly short book, full of fun, with a hint of menace.

The character of Maud is very skilfully brought to life. And while she's very much a baron, you always feel that she convinced herself that she had no choice but to deal with her various problems as they occurred. And I think that's a good point made by Sue in the Chalfonts because there is that feeling, isn't there, that as an older woman on her own,

there's no one who can help her solve a problem. So when the noise gets irritating in the apartment block, you do think, yeah, there's no one going more to sit down and have a cup of tea. Weirdly, of all the bits in the book, it's the noise that I could sympathise with her about because it's something that I've sort of vaguely encountered in my street. Not with my immediate neighbours, but with a neighbour of mine who was being impacted hugely by noise from younger people who lived above her.

Honestly, the woman's life was made a complete misery. People just are so selfish sometimes. I mean, they really, really are. So there, Maud did have my sympathy. Have I made that clear? misery people just are so selfish sometimes i mean they really really are so there maude did have my sympathy have i made that clear you certainly have and watch out jane's neighbors don't worry they know who they are yeah i think that's a real we should do a story about that on the show shouldn't we i think it's a real scourge of modern life these people who do kind of two three year building projects in London,

digging out basements. And it's things like if you live under, is it parquet flooring? What's the flooring that is incredibly noisy? Probably parquet. If you're living underneath it. I mean, there's a reason people used to go for carpets. At least not only, I think the place is warmer with a carpet, but you just don't make as much noise. It's that thumping. And lots of people, when they take their carpets up and carpet, but you just don't make as much noise. It's that thumping.

And lots of people, when they take their carpets up and sand the floor, they don't put anything in between the timbers, do they? So, you know, it's... There's no cushioning. No, nothing at all. So, yeah, you are stuffed. So, yeah, that would drive you bonkers. And Moore doesn't have anyone, you know,

kind of saying, why don't we just go for a walk and diffusing it does she so when she sees a problem she just keeps going until the problem has gone. We never quite know whether she's lonely or just alone or perhaps a combination of the two I wasn't quite sure but

it was another aspect of the book I think but people will have their views on that. I want to thank Caroline who has emailed from Perth, an expat living in Perth, Western Australia. I've read all three book club books. This last I enjoyed while having my leg elevated and on ice following half a knee replacement,

a sign that my own body is ageing like mauds. I thought it was a delightful collection of stories, a thoroughly delicious and malicious concept, The Vigilante Granny. To be taken as it was a delightful collection of stories, a thoroughly delicious and malicious concept, the vigilante granny. To be taken as it was intended, I think, a darkly humorous insight into the mind of a wronged and disrespected octogenarian who had the wherewithal to do away

with the people she disliked. Highly implausible, but easy to read and good fun. And there is a photograph of Caroline's new knee or half a new knee. I don't quite know why you're only getting half of one. I tell you what, it looks splendid. It does look good. And you can tell it's just basking in the Australian sunshine.

Over there in Perth. And shall we end? Do you have many more to get through or can I do an ending? No, you carry on. From Julie, who's in Geelong in Australia. Felt the book really needed the fresh perspective of the neighbour, Richard Berg, and the inspectors as I was looking for a counterpoint to Maud.

And she's put her finger on it, hasn't she? There wasn't a counterpoint in the book. No. It's very, very Maud perspective. Well, I suppose it it was but that left us I'm beginning to think now that this book was cleverer than I realised now you see Jane

no stop it it's the pace at which I move that's the joy of book clubs I think I don't which illustrates my stupidity I think it might have gone over my head slightly I dismissed it as being fluffier than I now realise it actually is. And that is thanks to the people who've emailed.

Brilliant. It's worked, Kate. It's worked. But it is lovely, isn't it? Because other people say stuff that you haven't quite managed to solidify in your own brain. And I think that's a good way of putting it, Julie. It then goes on to say, I started to think of the very capable,

no-nonsense older women I know. I wonder, fed up and in need of some long overdue justice, what they might be up to. A nice capturing of yet another self-sufficient, invisible, smart woman being underestimated. Oh, good. Yeah. Just because I thought there's real effort

gone into this email from maria who says that she likes just as a kind of mind hobby to make up stories about the people she sees uh as she goes about her daily life and does her business and she says um i had had a fantasy about the little old lady uh someone who lived nearby and i'd see her on a dog walk here and there she hoarded rubbish which was overflowing from her garage and garden gate, and was often dishevelled, but seemed to enjoy wandering around the public gardens outside her house. I had a story for her, totally alone, not managing, needing help. If I ever approached her or smiled her way, she wouldn't acknowledge me.

I totally get this, I was just being patronising. I used to work at the local supermarket customer service desk, and eventually clocked her doing her shopping. I pointed her out to a colleague and explained she may be vulnerable and need assistance. The colleague corrected me straight away, saying she's extremely wealthy, rude to everyone and often forgets to pay for fish from the fish counter. In other words, a real life maud. Thank you for that, Maria.

Oh, I think we've got the people standing outside. They are standing outside. So thank you to that maria oh i think we've got the people standing outside they are standing outside uh so thank you to everybody who sent us emails i'm sorry that we didn't read yours out if you are thinking but we have read them go on go on go on that would simply be a matter of time and just the sheer volume of people who got in touch uh so we hope that you got something from reading the book and being part of the discussion about it. And we are now open for business. Ding dong! For book club number five.

And we're thinking maybe... Non-fiction? Yeah, maybe. And dare we say something from Britain? Oh, good Lord. Have I gone too far? No, you're pushing the envelope. All right, okay.

And thank you for suggesting it in the first place. An Elderly Lady is Up to No Good by Helen Turston. So we've got a copy, you've got a copy, I've got a copy. If anyone wants this copy, bung us an email and I'll send it to you. Deceptively simple. That's a bit harsh. No, I'm saying it's like... Ignore that.

No. If you want to call me deceptively simple it's absolutely fine I'll read the book absolutely untaken goodbye well done for getting to the end of another episode of Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover.

Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe. And don't forget, there is even more of us every afternoon on Times Radio. It's Monday to Thursday, three till five. You can pop us on when you're pottering around the house or heading out in the car on the school run or running a bank thank you for joining us and we hope you can join us again on off-air very soon don't be so silly running a bank i know ladies lady listener sorry