Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Book Club - Fresh Water for Flowers

Episode Date: July 28, 2023

The first book club has finally wrapped and Jane and Fi can't quite come to an agreement... Join them as they respond to your emails, Instagram messages, comments and voice notes. Thank you so much for your engagement and interaction. We hope you'll join us for the next one. Get your suggestions in at: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi Assistant Producer: Eve Salusbury Times Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Well I don't know where to start really but welcome to the Off-Air Book Club. This is chapter one in what we hope will be an almost never-ending book of book choices. Well let's pretend we're all around at my house and i've done some nibbles and there there's some lambrusco and um what else would you have at a book club i've never actually well i haven't been to have i ever been to one have you not no i don't think i have so i sell it to me sounds terribly well i've had several um so i do belong to a book club and have done for years. It's been a bit on and off. We've done non-fiction for a while.

And then I was in a fiction book club too. So there was one stage where there were so many books being read. But you know what? A book club doesn't stay on the book. I think that's the joy of it. So both of those clubs, there was a book that brought everybody together but invariably especially if no one had really enjoyed the book

you spend about two seconds talking about it and then you just have a chat about life I think that's why people want to join really Well this book club is going to be relatively serious in the sense that today at least we are going to focus on the book We definitely are Welcome to my seminar

and this is a book that was a debut novel that today at least we are going to focus on the book. We definitely are. Welcome to my seminar. And this is a book that was a debut novel by a French author called Valérie Perrin. And I think that's my best pronunciation. How would you? I would do exactly the same, Valérie Perrin. Yeah. Fresh Water for Flowers is the English translation. And actually a couple of people in the emails

picked up on the fact that this was obviously translated into English and they wanted to mention the translator and it's a woman called Hildegard Searle and it's a real gift and it's an amazing thing to be able to do, isn't it? To be able to translate a book. Well, I think especially a book like this. So we should describe the book.

If you haven't read it and you're listening to this because you're intrigued and you want you're desperate all about it then let's just do a little bit of a plot summary although we should also say spoiler alert because we will talk about the end so it basically follows the story of violette who was essentially picked up in a bar when she was in her teens by a dashing kind of Johnny Alliday type creature called Philippe, who was very much older than her, very good looking. And I would say, and I'm probably going to say this too much during this episode, very, very French.

Because there are elements of this book that are just absolutely trapped inside a crusty baguette. But it follows her story and they have a child, Leonine, and she dies in really what turn out to be quite mysterious circumstances. And so the book is the story of Violette and how she copes with that. It's the story of love. It's the story of philandering and what that can do to a life and I think it's about affinity finding people rare people who you do genuinely want to be with and why you want to be

with them and it's about losing a child I thought ultimately by the end of it Jane it was and I really enjoyed it I know that you didn't but I thought it was the most beautiful hymn to maternal love, but set in a minor key. OK. I agree with you completely about the French thing, and it was one of the reasons I didn't like it very much. I just thought it was absurd, this old creep in a bar in a leather jacket and going off on his bike all the time. It just got on my nerves. And there are quite a few emails along those lines

saying that they just couldn't bear this man. Why was he in any way attractive? All very yon-yon. And she does, in the acknowledgements, thank Johnny Halliday, who is a man who remains mysteriously close to the heart of almost every living French person. He's just died, though, hasn't he, Johnny Halliday?

Yeah, but do you think... It's an interesting point, just about the Frenchness of it all. I mean, she's allowed to be French, because she's French. Yeah, I was you think it's an interesting point just about the Frenchness of it all? I mean, she's allowed to be French because she's French. Yeah, I was going to say, we're reading it as relative outsiders and actually quite early on in the book because of its style, which is really dense. So there's a lot of kind of internal examination and thoughts and descriptions.

It ends up basically being set in a cemetery although that's not where it starts but Violette ends up working as the kind of caretaker of a cemetery so it's got a very very slow pace to it which I just immediately thought okay this is a different way of writing I'm going to have to read it in a different way so I didn't mind it being ever so ever so French in fact I found that quite intriguing I think if it had been set in a large cemetery somewhere outside Swindon I probably wouldn't have stuck with it maybe French cemeteries are superior to our own although I've been in some lovely cemeteries in Britain she said quickly there are some gorgeous ones and I'm sure by way, they're also very well looked after because Violette does spend a lot of time looking after the cemetery.

And she's a character who tries to look on the bright side, although life has been very hard on her, hasn't it? So she's not without good points. It was just, I think probably some of the emailers have said the same thing that I would say about it. I can't stand that flip-flopping thing. I prefer a narrative arc that starts and keeps going. I don't like going backwards and forwards.

I didn't always understand which characters were being talked about, if I'm honest. I'm sorry I sound really carpy, but I didn't really know who was in play at any given time. I'd have to keep going back to work out who it was. And actually, the whole losing a child thing, it happens to people and it's appalling and truly terrible and i'm not sure you can ever get over it did i want to be reminded or i uh probably not if i'm honest well let me read this one from katherine ruster who's joining us from michigan usa i really enjoyed fresh water

for flowers and i could envision myself in all of the places the author describes as she describes things so beautifully and with interesting details. And also as a mother of two now grown up children, my biggest ever fear was and still is losing a child. And I honestly cannot make myself think about what it would be like and how I would handle it because it is too horrible. But the gentle way the author describes what Violet experiences and how she has other experiences going on at the same time made me feel empathy and melancholy, but not in a way that I had to stop reading it. I can relate to her feelings for her lost daughter, but also see how she does move forward

and it left me feeling hopeful generally. I liked other aspects of the book and found it to be very enjoyable. Wonderful choice. Looking forward to the next one. We will get onto that at the end of the podcast. And I completely understand what you're saying, Jane. And, you know, quite often when a theme like that has emerged in a book, I've put it down

because it is my darkest fear too. But there's something about, oh, I don't know, is it selfish to say you carry on reading because you're slightly equipping yourself to experience something in the hope that you never do, but just in case you do, and to better understand people

who have lost a child. Yeah. And I thought it was remarkable because it's so sad. And at the beginning of the book, you don't realise that that's happened. And I kept on thinking, please,'t please don't please don't please don't oh okay that's happened but I was invested in it by then so I really stuck with it it is

interesting that a lot of people dislike it quite intensely and we've had emails from people who love it very passionately so this was this is a good choice this book actually as it's turned out we should also say that it's not some sort of, it's not a book that we're introducing to the world. It's been wildly successful. It's sold, I think, one and a half million copies in France and Italy. Yeah, and it's been number one in France and Italy.

Yeah. So isn't it interesting that France and Italy would read the same book? I mean, it's something we've talked about before, that you don't often get many European novels in English that become massive bestsellers in this country. I can't think of the last time that happened.

It'd be great if we could shove this up the charts for Valerie, although she hasn't been in touch. We haven't heard a word, have we? Despite our best efforts. Well, have we tried hard enough? Have we only put in 48% of trying, where in fact 52% has won? In fact, 52% was one. Freshwater for Flowers.

This one comes from Alison, who says, I'm really looking forward to hearing readers' reaction to this novel, which I found engrossing and still find haunting. It was a holiday read, so I was able to give it more time and concentration than normal, but I think I might otherwise have abandoned it, as it's not a book that can be read lightly, as it covers several different and serious disturbing themes.

The almost poetic presentation allows one to be semi-detached from so much suffering and appreciate the good in several of the characters. And Alison, I think you've put your finger on it there because also I think there's something about reading a book so clearly set in a different country and written by somebody not of your nationality and your first language that does mean you can be a bit detached from it so I think you're

spot on with those two things and actually I only managed to finish it when I was on my holidays because I couldn't I was doing kind of half an hour a night but I really wanted to chunk it out a bit more. I initially did have, I find it boring to start, then I got mildly charmed by it, and then I lost interest again. That's how my journey through this book progressed. Let's go to Fort Worth in Texas,

and Zoe says, I agree with you, Jane. Slow start, then I got into it, then I became bored and scanned the latter 25% of the book. Too long. Interesting plot, but what was latter 25 of the book too long interesting plot but what was the point of the side story about gabriel and i that's right i didn't get that either gabriel and irene or irene or a ren i just didn't i wasn't invested in that at all so there are two generations really written about in the book aren't there and uh there is a secondary plot of uh gabriel's there's a secondary plot of philip's family and there's also a secondary plot with one of the people who's buried in the cemetery and both of those revolve around affairs actually and there were times when i just thought

oh my goodness the way that the french regard affairs and mistresses just is still very different to us there was so little condemnation of philandering even though it caused so much pain and that one of the underlying themes I thought was that uh you know you meet people at a different time in your life, you have a huge affinity with them, proper love, which you just can't ignore, but, jeez, does that tear other people apart. So I quite enjoyed those stepping-out stories because I wouldn't have wanted just one whole book about the sadness of losing a child. Well, Fiona in the Cotswolds says,

The book, I'm not a fan. Dull, too long, and only two interesting things happen with a huge amount of content spent on lists of irrelevant names, dates, and trite eulogies. The characters were one-dimensional, it was easy to interchange them. Full disclosure, I listened on Audible, and the narrator was American with toe-curling French pronunciation, and it went on and on and on. Funnily enough, I work at a cemetery, and whilst I understood the ad nauseum names and dates of the headstones from my lunchtime walks,

they could all have been reduced in my humble opinion. I like the podcast, hated the book. Right, well, there we are. She's definitely in my camp, as is, there's another very pithy one here from, no, hang on, ignore me, carry on. Got some really lovely messages on Instagram and we have voiced those ones up. So can we have one from Claire Vivian Roberts, please?

I read this book in a weekend after my son finished his last week at primary school, in which I had underestimated the emotional impact. I hid myself away and devoured this beautiful tale. I loved the language, the short chapters and the way the story came together piece by piece. Before I knew it I was weeping on the sofa, fresh water for flowers in my hand and a feeling that I won't be the same again. I will be buying this for literature loving friends and have pre-ordered the next novel. Well, oh dear, it makes me feel even worse about not liking it. No, but I don't think anybody should feel bad about their taste in books.

You know, there'll be books that you love that other people don't like. I don't think that matters at all. Can I just read this bit? It's just part of an email from Helen who says, I thought the story was beautifully written, but I always wonder, with a book in translation, if the flow of the writing is somehow interrupted or the style of writing slightly changed.

In short, I wish I could have read this in French, but my GCSE from 30 years ago wasn't quite up to the task. I did sometimes have to stop and remind myself which thread of the story was being told, especially when it was moving between Violette and Julienne and Irene, Irene, I don't know, and Gabriel. But on the whole, I thought that the way in which all of the threads of the story came together

was very deftly done. And in particular, I liked the way in which elements of the story were gradually revealed, such as finding out what actually happened to Leonine and then who was responsible for it and you know what she also has a point about very short chapters too and i loved the fact that i didn't realize i was reading what's almost a kind of detective novel and a bit of a thriller towards the end yeah when i started it at the beginning. So I was pleasantly surprised by that. And Helen is not the only one to mark out chapter 68,

which is, I mean, I had to stop and read it again. And lots of you have said the same thing. Oh, this is about the things her child will never do. Yep. So it's just the most beautiful list of all of the things that won't be happening to Leonine. But it's done in such a lovely way, Jane, and some of the things are just really, really funny. So just a tiny bit of it.

You won't put your teenage years behind you. You won't dance any slow dances. You won't have a handbag or painful periods. You won't get acne or an IUD. You won't nick coins from my purse and I won't open a savings account for you in case of a rainy day. I won't detect cigarette smoke on your clothes.

I won't see you smoking and then quitting smoking. We won't celebrate you passing your baccalaureate. We'll never clink glasses together. You won't use deodorant and you won't get appendicitis. And so it goes on. I mean, it's just the most, I thought it was the most beautiful list because it's just funny in places. I won't find out whether you have a gift for foreign languages

and you'll never change the colour of your hair. And there was something about it which was just, I thought it was just a piece of really, really, really brilliant writing. Yeah, can I just say, though, it's the French bit here, because she does say in that same chapter, you won't French kiss anyone and you won't climax. And I just thought, oh, dear. Sorry, is that bad?

I don't want to read that in the context of this. I mean, some of it is moving. That is just, no, that's just where the French clearly start. And I think I've stopped. I don't want that in that chapter. Do you not? No. But so much of the book is about, it's about love

and it's about the physicality of attraction. And you probably wouldn't get that in an english writers but i just don't mind the frenchness of it all at all well i did jacob's in bristol um look of course they're allowed to have you traveled much in france actually uh jacob from bristol here i've done my homework and i read right to the end of fresh water for flowers i think i'm on jane's side he's not entirely certain it's not the best thing I've read this year, but it's not the worst. Six out of ten.

I'll be honest. Now it's over. The main thought I'm left with is, I wonder what the puns in the Lord's Prayer would have been in the French version. Now, this is page 321 and page 468. If you get the author or translator on, please ask.

Best wishes, Jacob. Okay, Jacob. I think we'll have to probably assume that we're not going to get get the author or translator on, please ask. Best wishes, Jacob. OK, Jacob, I think we'll have to probably assume that we're not going to get either the author or the translator on, but I take your point, because there are some very... That's another thing that slightly annoyed me about it, some slightly super clever, clever things about this book that, in the end, began to grind my gears. Sorry. There you go.

There was one from somebody listening, Antoine. Where's that one gone? Because Antoine mentions a bit I did like, when Violette learns to ride a unicycle in order to dress up as a ghost and scare away the teenagers in the cemetery at night. That is funny, strangely endearing, and felt like a

beautifully unexpected touch of freedom in the story. It was. There was light and shade, wasn't there? It wasn't all gloom. No. Oh, no, not at all. And that's what I mean. It's got so many different stories going through it and a slightly kind of comedic element to it

because the other people who work in the cemetery alongside Violette are eccentric characters deliberately written. You know, there's a guy called Elvis who only sings Elvis songs. And so it's all quite kind of... You see the one who's not very clever, or is that the other one? Yeah, and I don't think any of them are particularly bright.

And she doesn't spare the punches in describing that sometimes. I tell you what, Susie isn't sparing anything either. Love you both, and I've laughed from the very start, but my God, I've paid for it by finishing this book, says Susie. I hated all the characters except Sasha they all needed a good telling off if not something worse I must be a hard woman but I love him is such a poor excuse for enabling bad behavior his parents have rights no they don't I finished it because you asked me to and I felt it might have a great twist to finish um and then I'm afraid to say Susie goes

on to give us a spoiler so we're not going to go there uh this one I finally have a reason to write says Anne I've wanted to write for so long but I couldn't think of anything that didn't represent the equivalent of a fangirl or a little giggle and a wave to say hello I live in Australia not you as well a couple of weeks ago I finally tracked down a hard copy of Fresh Water for Flowers in a bookshop in Sydney. No mean feat. Soon I started reading, braced myself to get through those first 50 pages as mentioned but found that I've loved it from the start. I love the unique structure of the story, the characters, the descriptive language depicting French life. So I posted an Instagram story. I had noticed amidst your more than 7,000 followers,

I had one in common. This woman had been a colleague more than a decade ago, and we hadn't connected on Instagram beyond occasionally liking holiday pics. When we worked together, there have been some workplace culture challenges. I love that. We need to know more about that. Anyway, to cut to the chase, we reached out and started a text conversation about the book and very soon we were exchanging phone numbers and emails and promising to let each other know that we were in the area. I love that the pod and this book have rekindled a friendship. I now only have a few remaining chapters,

so intrigued as to how Perra lands this thing. And I suppose, back to your original question about book clubs, that is part of the joy of book clubs, where you really connect with somebody over something, not just the fact that you know them. Shall we have another voice note? Can we have JJ Burling? This is from JJ Burling.

I found this book both beautifully written and quite moving. Unfortunately, I realised that listening to it on Audible, which I did, prevented me from reflecting as deeply as I would have liked to the many profound passages which I would have otherwise marked and referred back to in a physical copy. I think I'm going to order the paper back now. Brilliant first book club choice. It is interesting. Thank you very much for that, JJ.

The difference between listening to a book and reading it do i think i get more out of a book i've physically read or listened to i don't know it's a whole different experience actually isn't it it's lazier to listen although increasingly i'm listening to loads and loads of books yeah i can't do the listening thing at all i love it i love it i like to be able to see it on the page this one comes from hang on it is a different experience isn't it you obviously put more effort in if you're reading it on the page

and perhaps you as JJ says there prevented me from reflecting as deeply as I would have liked on the many profound passages so although I often listen to Ken Follett there's not that many profound passages yeah I think with something like this I'd really really struggle to listen to it because so much

of what i loved about it was just the occasional sentence you know where you just have to kind of stop uh and let that sink in in fact there was a really wonderful one and because not you know the whole thing isn't um it's not delivered in the same kind of tone there are you know bits and pieces that are just uh you know very clever observations on life and there's one little bit where she just says bear with bear with um it's funny how happy children can be when you reverse the roles and it's just her talking about how she used to play violette used to play with her daughter and of course her daughter absolutely loved it when she was the one in charge.

And kids do, don't they? If you're playing shopkeepers, my children always had to be the shopkeeper, I had to be the customer. It was never the other way around. They just love that notion of suddenly, in their imagination, they are way, way, way more important.

They're running the joint. This one comes from Alison, who says, thank you for suggesting the book. I adored it. And I've ordered all of Perrin's other books from the library. A thought for Jane, I often found myself comparing the narrator to Helen Archer. While their respective tragedies should not be ranked,

it was powerful to read about the slow process of healing which Violette underwent with support from Sasha and their colleagues. The pain of this was apparent in both the narration and Irene's journal. It was a reminder that we need time and space to heal. Another argument for local communities too, although the story ended relatively recently, there was no significant change to Violette's life with the arrival of smartphones, a reminder to us all to scroll less and spend more time attending to those who share our kitchen tables.

And actually, that's such a good point to make because there's very little modernity in the book. And I thought when I started reading it, maybe it was set in the kind of 1920s, 1940s, but it's not. It's in this century. And she spends little or no time uh looking at instagram it's quite incredible uh jean i hope that is right has said that they found the book

too poetic unrealistic where do folk really look after cemeteries grow flowers and sell them at the bloody gate well presumably that does and can a bloke actually spend years of his life driving around on his motorcycle day after day doing bugger all and his partner put up with it really i thought it was melancholic i read it but it made me feel sad the whole time would not recommend right let's balance that out with a really lovely one from katherine horner this is from katherine hor on Instagram. I loved this beautiful and poignant reading the comments here it seems lots of people are put off by the slow pace but I really like this as I need things to slow up in real life and this felt therapeutic.

It made me really engage with the characters but it made me think about something a children's bookshop owner said to me when my daughter was younger. She was a big reader at that point and I tried to encourage her to read things I'd enjoyed as a kid but she tried a few and just didn't enjoy them. Then the bookshop owner said to me that children's books now are like life, far more action-packed, stimulating and fast-paced. Kids get used to this and struggle with the slower pace novels of the past as they seem boring to them. Perhaps there is something similar going on with reactions to Freshwater for flowers we aren't used to this more gentle introspective kind of writing anymore and i'd i'd completely agree i think um you know if you were really annoyed by the pace of the book then of course there's absolutely no point in

trying to finish it but if you can just change gear in the way that you're reading uh you know which it asks you to do then i think you just get so much more from it and also the chapters are really short which lots of people have noted which i find really useful well i used to one of the reasons i used to love armistead morpin's book was that his chapters were always super short so you could just do a couple and then you'd feel that you'd had a gulp of the book and then you could just move on so normally I like that too um and what I did like actually were the constant mentions of food and meals I like I really like that I actually think it's quite interesting gives you a window into somebody's life so I'd

have more food but uh Juliet says um among many other things, page 115 made me cringe. It's almost a parody of Frenchness. Not quite a low, a low levels, but not far off. I think, although I'm not sure, that my problem was with the translation. I do recognise some of the references. My mum was French and I think that perhaps in French

this book would carry more charm. But actually, I just don't care enough about her or the stories of the dead people. I'm really struggling to get to the end. Now, I don't expect everyone to know exactly what happened on page 115, but basically, one of the blokes at the cemetery sensed that Violette was having a bad day, so went off to get a crusty baguette and some farm eggs,

and she made a nice omelette with some comté cheese. Now, I actually could eat that meal now that sounds completely delicious so juliet i would say yes to the food it was the rest of it i didn't like i loved the food and also because some of the food that's described uh when there there's there's a couple who meet in restaurants all the time and they're meeting in those kind of roadside cafes that turn out to have seven courses of exquisite dining whereas you know we'd have the little chef um but quite often they're eating there's a lot of fried eggs that goes down and quite a lot of frite uh which made me think god yeah i'd love a fried egg and chips today uh the chapter headings as well have caught the

attention of uh lots of people not least uh least Fiona Uden, who particularly liked chapter 89. And the heading is, We live together in bliss, we rest together in peace. How lovely is that, says Fiona. And chapter 92, Life is but an endless losing of all that one loves. And this one has caught the attention as well of Rachel. As I go to bed, I think how awful it would be

to die in the middle of reading a good novel. It's true. It's just a very, very, very good point. Just my luck. Jane is in, now a place I hope I've got this right, Fernie, British Columbia in Canada. I fell in and out of love with this book many times at the beginning but finally the tedium

won out. And honestly, Jane, that's sort of how I feel. I got lost many times with the constantly shifting timelines, perhaps because I was reading the book while travelling in North Wales, not reading every day. When I got home back to Canada, I re-read a third of the book to try and get everything straight. Ultimately, for me, there were too many characters, too many storylines, too much infidelity and too little editing. I did enjoy the time spent in the cemetery with Violette. I thought that was a great concept, rich with opportunity to talk about a variety of characters and how they were being remembered. But the loss of her daughter, to me,

redirected the story to the mystery of what had happened. The ultimate reveal was an anti-climax and I felt it was a bit contrived. Jane, yes, I did read your email out because you went to the same school as me, but it always counts. It always counts. This one comes from Judith, who is in the depths of the Lake District.

I read Freshwater for Flowers as a translation on Kindle. I thoroughly enjoyed it from the off. I'm a bit of a fan of the flicking back and fro in time. Violet's character was engaging from the outset and quite deservedly holds the whole story together and I loved the way the narrative placed her in the centre of a virtual spider's web and all the other strands radiated out and back to her. She was warm and strong, and when faced with the unimaginable, she seemed to have a much greater power than her appalling husband. I rattled through the book and enjoyed every moment.

It was a subtle blend of mystery, thriller and love story. As for your book club, I'm in, but please sort the wine. We will do that, Judith. So that's exactly a flip of our last reader's experience of it. And I would say as well that all of the women are so much better than the men throughout the book. Yeah, well, it's interesting that the number of times that affairs have cropped up just in our conversation today

and also in your email. So this is another one from Louise. The story itself, it wasn't half bleak, beautifully written, but bleak with all the deaths and the affairs and the questionable life choices. I'm left wondering what the message of the story really is, but maybe that was the point. I am really intrigued to hear what everybody else thinks.

Bonus points for having short chapters. That made reading much more manageable. And I did love the world that the author built around Violette's life in the cemetery after her husband left you couldn't help but feel happy for her and I really hope she didn't move out at the end she doesn't does she she's still she's still doing the job isn't she yes she is I thought that was I wasn't certain but I thought she was so I wonder if do the French read books written for I don't certain, but I thought she was. So I wonder if, do the French read books written for, I don't know, the UK and America and think, why isn't everybody having loads of affairs without judgment?

I think it would be a terrible, lazy stereotype if we assumed that every French book has to contain lots of affairs. But I think this one reflects the different place that philandering has in French life. I mean, let's face it. contain yeah i mean lots of affairs but i think this one reflects the different place that philandering has uh in french life i mean let's face it you know the the french have had uh presidents whose uh notoriety and kind of strength has been based on uh full public knowledge of their mistresses and you know the mistress i think still carries uh with her a certain i don't know sense of joie de vivre that it might not in this country jane so it is just a

different yeah well it's a different type of gallic love isn't it president macron has not has doesn't have any um interest in that area no but i suppose it's just all i mean it's you know it's a novel it's not fact it's not i don't think it's ever trying to tell you this is how you should think about something and i really enjoy reading writers who can do that so they're not preaching they're not saying if you take this turn in life you're going to be right if you go down this road you're going to be wrong it's just all about you know they're just the kind of morass of gray that you face and picking your way through it so uh you know it's horses for courses isn't it it all and it always is uh in books as in so many other things uh particularly horses by the way oh it definitely applies there if you're doing

a course you need the right horse um i think i would not have chosen to pick up this book and it's been really nice that the book club has made me pick it up and i don't want to be churlish because clearly this has moved and touched an enormous number of people not just the people who've written to us and sent voice notes but the millions who've bought it so um it's clear that it's immensely touching. I just didn't, and I feel terrible, I just didn't like it. Sorry. Je suis désolé.

But I don't think you ever have to apologise for not liking something. I don't think that matters, does it? Do you know what I've absolutely loved, though, is how many people have bothered to get in touch to talk about the book with us. Yes, it's great. Because that's the whole point of the book. Because we weren't sure whether people would. So we are really grateful to you for taking the time. It means an enormous amount that so many of you have emailed

and we haven't had time to read all of them out. But we've got a fair sprinkling and I think a genuine cross-section. It really did divide you, this book. So from that perspective, it was exactly the right thing to do. Let's have another voice note. I am one of those listeners who always try to remember your book recommendations when I heard them on your podcasts. So I was delighted when you announced your book group and ordered it straight away. I really enjoyed the book and looked forward to any chances I could find to read it. Two things I would mention. Firstly, I struggled a bit with

it being set in a cemetery. It kept making me feel sadness about death, especially of my mum's death a few years ago. Secondly, whilst the translation to English seemed flawless, I struggled with so many cultural references that I just didn't understand. Within the first 30 odd pages, we come across Jean-Jacques Goldman, Francis Caberle, Isabelle Adjandi, Robert Bantner, Charles Trenet, and I since looked them up and found they were French singers, songwriters, actors, and even the former Minister of Justice for France. And I just wondered how the other readers felt

about this aspect of the book. Thanks so much, Jane and Fee. Love your podcasts. Bye. Oh, you see, that is a absolutely five star uh grade a book club member yes thoughtful about other people's reading of it interested in other people's opinions uh you can stay in the club well it's interesting isn't it that we don't know well we just don't know anything about exactly that reference that the stuff that's going on in the everyday life of the country that's closest to us, arguably apart from Ireland.

I can never remember whether Ireland's closest to us or France. I think it might be France. Anyway, we know so little about their popular culture because language divides us, and we know far too much about America, where we've got basically almost nothing in common with them, really, really except the language and so much shared culture and i do think it's interesting i was also puzzled by some of those references i mean you're just not going to know who those people are are you yeah but but then like our lovely uh contributor you just go and

look them up we've chosen to read a book written by someone who's french jane so she doesn't have to no no no she doesn't we're no good if she started making references to who would it Julie Goodyear. Julie Goodyear and Kenneth Clark. And Olly Murs. So you'd have to go and look those up too. No, it strikes me, I'm always saying, isn't it extraordinary that we know so little about our neighbours when we know far too much about the country that, you know,

the cultural imperialism of the United States. And it's very true. I mean, I'd happily chop my way through any American novel without even thinking that I'd moved my perspective. That's what's different, isn't it? And so, you know, if you read God,

God, what's the last American author you've read um gosh i can't i can't actually i tell you what the last book that i've read that was set in america uh was an old lead child i found when um sometimes i you know you just need to read something guaranteed, bish bash bosh in between, lots of other reading. So I reread one of his and it was set in, I mean, I can't even remember which, generic American grid Midwest town.

And I don't even need any more cultural references to be able to visualize it, not feel uncomfortable. And that is, you're right, a completely different experience. I felt like I was reading a foreign novel, even though I've been to France lots of times and I can probably picture it too. But it felt, you know, far more of a leap. Could we end with a really, really lovely one

from Fiona Doris, please? And also this sets us up to talk about what happens next this is from Fiona found this a deeply emotional evocative and disturbing novel the family dynamics the impact throughout someone's entire life of tragedy was portrayed with dignity and yet such depth of emotion the imagery was stunning and it felt very French, culturally, landscape, everything. Which, of course, it was. But the subtle and obvious differences culturally made the novel more intriguing. I couldn't put this novel down and read it late into the night,

but it was because I needed the plot to be resolved, as it was so uncomfortable and disturbing, rather than reading it through enjoyment, if that makes sense. An epic novel that unravelled and unravelled. So glad I read it, as I would not have picked it up if it hadn't been your recommendation. Looking forward to next month's novel, Fiona. Brilliant. Yes, thank you very much. So I think that sums up a lot of people's experiences of it. And if you really, really loved it, then we're delighted. And if you didn't get on with it, it doesn't matter. All thoughts are

always welcome. So we'll do the same thing again. And the idea of the book club is that you recommend the books because this recommendation came out of a conversation that you and I just had on the podcast about why we don't read more German novels. Who suggested it? Or French novels. And quite a few people said you should absolutely try

the works of Valérie Perrin. And so I think it was because, you know, three or four people had immediately got back in touch to say, well, why don't you give this one a go? And also because we were intrigued, weren't we, by the title, which just sounded so drab, actually, Fresh Water for Flowers. It's got a lovely cover, by the way, I will say that. Beautiful cover, very wafty a little bit Monet so we would love to hear some new recommendations from

all of you lovely book club listeners as to what we should all read next and I suppose we're kind of trying to not read the very obvious things that was what was so delightful about this I would never ever have picked it up in a bookshop and purchased it and read it or downloaded it

or gone to my library, Jane. It would be good to have a book, and I'm not just saying this because I'd like to do a book that I've liked, but it would be good to have a book that's completely different to this one. What about, why don't we just, I would love, and I think you,

I hope you would agree, I'd love a crime fiction. But why don't we just, I would love, and I think you, I hope you would agree, I'd love a crime fiction. But why don't we ask our lovely listeners to recommend some really good crime fiction that doesn't start off with, you know, a shallow grave with the bodies of four beautiful young women in the middle of the woods. We don't want that. That's your homework. See if you can think of something we might, is the right word it probably is actually if we're honest thank you very much for listening and thank you so much for taking part in this really appreciate it

the book is Fresh Water for Flowers by Valerie Perrault clearly it immensely moved so many of you and if you like the sound of it you'll probably be out I think people were getting it from the library as well weren't they you don't have to buy it no it's available I think in quite a few people borrowed it

so yeah it's on a library list somewhere great Great. Thank you very much. It's Jane and Fee at times.radio. A bientot. Well done for getting to the end of another episode of Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe. And don't forget, there is even more of us every afternoon on Times Radio. It's Monday to Thursday, three till five. You can pop us on when you're pottering around the house

or heading out in the car on the school run. Or running a bank. Thank you for joining us and we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon. Don't be so silly. Running a bank? I know, ladies. A lady listener. I'm sorry.