Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Book Club - My Sister the Serial Killer, Oyinkan Braithwaite

Episode Date: September 22, 2023

Jane and Fi have picked another opinion-dividing book for their second Book Club episode: 'My Sister the Serial Killer' by Oyinkan Braithwaite.Join them as they respond to your emails, Instagram messages, comments and voice notes.Thank you so much for your engagement and interaction. We hope you'll join us for the next one. Get your suggestions in at: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiAssistant Producer: Kate LeeTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Welcome to the second, welcome Fi, to the second in our book club podcast. Well, welcome everybody. And yes, particularly warm welcome to you. This concentrates on the second book we chose,

which is My Sister, the Serial Killer by Oinka Braithwaite. And I think it's fair to say that once again, Fi, we've picked on something that's divided people, but in a good way. And that's kind of the point, isn't it? It is. So we'd like our book club to be a place where you just read things that you wouldn't immediately get to, I suppose. What did you think of it?

Well, I preferred it to Freshwater for Flowers, which is where we started last time. Partly, and to be fair to me, this has been echoed by quite a few correspondents because it was so short. And that makes me sound like an absolute philistine. It's just that we've all got busy lives and there was something about the pasty way this book was written that i really i really enjoyed what about you i would completely agree with that actually i love the very very short chapters because you know if you're reading in bed and you can you kind of flick ahead a bit and you think oh okay well i can do four more chapters tonight. Bish, bash, bosh, off we go.

So I really liked it for that. I liked its spikiness. I liked the basic notion of the plot because it is turning the old trope of a serial killer always targeting beautiful young women on its head. And I think, as we say in our interview with the author so you know this isn't me saying something behind her back the ending just left me absolutely baffled I wanted the ending to be completely different to what it was so you know that lovely feeling at the end of the book

that you've really really enjoyed where you feel completely satisfied by it and it doesn't have to be a really happy ending it's not you know always tied up in a bow no but something fulfilling or some kind of resolution and that's the bit that left me wanting yes we don't get that here which i curiously didn't mind because it left me hanging and actually, I rather enjoyed that about it. I suspect the serial killer in the title may not have ceased her work. So we should just very briefly explain the plot. Although we are assuming that if you're listening to this, then you have read the book. God, you really are loyal if you're listening to this.

And you have no intention of reading the book. You haven't read the book. You've actually never read a book. And you're certainly not going to start here. No, but just because people might need a bit of a gentle reminder or pegs to hang comments on, stuff like that. Well, I've got the book right here. Shall I just do a quick mention of the blurb at the back? What a good idea, Jane.

When Karadi's dinner is interrupted one night by a distress call from her sister, Iula, she knows what's expected of her. Bleach, rubber gloves, nerves of steel and a strong stomach. This will be the third boyfriend Iula's dispatched in self-defence. And the third mess that her lethal little sibling has left Karadi to clear away. Well, that gives you as much as you probably need to know. Here are two sisters tightly bound to each other for a multitude of reasons and we do find out much more about their background during the course of the novel don't we? And I suppose it asks us all how far would

you go for your sister and how thick is blood? Is it thicker than water? And also I thought one of the really interesting things about it, and perhaps this is why I found the ending disappointing, at what stage are you allowed in a sibling relationship to just put your own happiness first? It wouldn't necessarily mean the end of your sibling's happiness, but aren't you allowed to just go, I'd like this, actually.

I just like this. Deal with it in the same way that that sibling has probably always taken what they want without really thinking about whether or not it's made you happy well it certainly seems to be the case in this relationship but we like I say we understand why they're so tightly bound as we read the book. And some of you thought they'd done something, actually, that I didn't think they had done. But anyway, and I don't think you thought they'd done that thing either. No. But we'll get to your reactions in a moment or two. I think we're delighted to say we are able to talk to Oinka. So shall we bring her in? Oh, are you going to pretend that she's literally in the room? That's absolutely wonderful.

Shall we just? Hello. Thank you for joining us. No, we spoke to her, it must be getting on for a week ago now, didn't we? I was going to really admire your broadcasting talent there. I'm sorry, I've ruined the moment. Yeah, you have a bit. We talked to Oinka Braithwaite and asked her where she got the idea for My Sister, the Serial Killer from. Here she is. I I think so as far as the roots of the idea, when I was 19, I had written this poem called Black Widow Spider because I sort of had just discovered the Black Widow Spider and was fascinated with the idea that there was this species of spider.

And, you know, after mating, the female spider, who's slightly bigger than the male spider would if she was hungry would devour her mate and for whatever reason it stayed with me um so i wrote a poem i think it was a sonnet about the black widow spider and then um i went on to write a long form poem where um it was sort of like a story. And it was about two women. They were friends, not sisters. And they were white.

But, you know, the one of them was really attractive, really beautiful. And she would marry wealthy men and then poison them at some point and acquire their wealth. And she had this friend who was um you know not very attractive um who was the only person who knew this was going on and it sort of ended in a very sort of shakespearean tragedy style um but i think 10 years later i'd write my sister the serial killer and um that was it was like that poem was the foundation for it. So a lot of things changed. By that time, I had changed a lot.

And I was more, because I think when I started writing, I would write, I was exposed to a lot of British and American literature. So most of my characters were white. But I had changed a lot in, you in the 10 years so I was writing black characters I was writing Nigerian characters um and yeah it sort of you know found my way to my sister the serial killer can we just acknowledge that the title of the book is quite brilliant um the title and the cover certainly in the UK it's bright green, with an image of a young woman with a headscarf, just tight. I mean, everything about it screams, pick me up and buy this book, you will be entertained by it. Your title, first of all, can we just tackle that? When did that come to you?

It didn't. I can't take any credit for that. That was my agent 100 percent and um to be honest I was a little bit resistant to it initially I thought um people might mistake it for like true crime or um I just thought it was a little bit on the nose but um I do trust her I've always trusted her and um it worked out for the best I and I also can't take credit for the cover um which I think was my American publisher I had very little um I think I was I I liked it immediately but um I don't think I had that much say in it to be very honest so well I'm really sorry I've heaped praise on you for something that you're not responsible for. Let's move on to things you are responsible for. Well, definitely, definitely the pacey writing. So your chapters have been commented on by lots

and lots of our listeners. Tell us a little bit about how you write those, because some of them are almost like a mini kind of poem, aren't they? That punctuates much longer prose. Yeah, I mean, when I was writing that and I do it, I still do it sometimes. But I sort of addressed each poem, each chapter separately. So I would, when I was starting a new chapter, I would open a new Word document and I would write that chapter

because I wanted each chapter to be self-contained. And it also helps me because I find that sometimes if I'm writing an entire novel in one Word document, for example, I'll just be trying to get to the next point. And then, you know, you find yourself with lots of paragraphs, lots of sections that aren't compelling in and of themselves. You're just trying to get to from point A to point B. And to prevent myself doing that, it helps me to start a new Word document

and address that chapter, make sure that chapter works for what it is. But I had no pressure with my sister, because to be honest, I didn't think anybody would pick it up. So I was also free to do with it whatever I felt like doing. So if I wrote a chapter

and it was only one sentence long I was like well yeah I mean it works I'm gonna move on I feel like I've done what I wanted to do um so I don't know if I feel so free now but I definitely had like a lot of freedom when I was writing. God I would carry on doing that I think it really works from the reader's perspective and did you want it to be a book that says something quite serious, actually, about violence, and the fact that if you have been the victim of violence, it changes your relationship to it, it might make it easier for you to be a violent person yourself. That was not my intention starting out. But there was a point where, you know, I'll sort of go for something a little bit different, but there was a point where,

um, you know, I had these two sisters, I had the one that was, you know, doing these really atrocious things. And, um, the oldest sister is, is covering up for her. And I had to answer the question for myself that why is she going so far for her? Yes, they're sisters, but I had to answer the question for myself that why is she going so far for her? Yes, they're sisters, but I needed to justify to myself more so for Koride than for Ayala. Why Koride would go so far? Why would you keep covering these crimes? And it came to me that they were both victims of trauma, the same trauma that had bonded them together beyond, you know, mere sisterhood or the love that they had for one another. So that's how I found myself there. But it's not how I started. Can we talk about sibling loyalty?

I know you have sisters, Fi and I have both got one sister each. I'm the elder sister, Fi has, you have an older sister. I'm the younger sister. I you have an older sister i'm the younger sister i am more likely to be the serial killer yeah i think that's true we know that um it's a it's a complicated business this isn't it actually i am very aware that the truth is blood is thicker than water isn't it it's quite troubling yeah i think um i mean i'm also the eldest child. I've got two sisters and a brother. And it's, you know, I was talking actually to my mother-in-law last night about one of my sisters who I've not been very happy with of late. has said time and time again and basically translates to the eldest is basically like a bin and just has to take like a rubbish bin and just has to take whatever their siblings uh throw at them um and there's this massive sense of responsibility that you're given almost from the jump um and you know they're a family that you don't choose you're kind of stuck with them and

they're stuck with you and there's just there's a lot of there's a lot that goes into that it's a very complex relationship and I think with sisters as well um there can be a lot of tension and a lot of conflict but you still know that you would do whatever you you know you would die for this person you would do whatever you could for this person. And I'm fascinated with that whole idea, I guess. I mean, I guess we don't talk about it enough in some ways. The relationship with a sibling or siblings, barring a tragedy, is likely to be the longest relationship of your life. And we don't often discuss it all that deeply. Yeah, no, that's true. And even, you know, they're the

ones they've been through. I mean, no one else will, you know, they're who I share my parents with. They're who I share my upbringing with. Like truly no one, I mean, I feel like my husband understands me, but maybe, you know, no one has seen me the way my siblings have seen me. You know, so that's, they know my secrets, they know everything about me. Can we talk about the ending, Ayinka? And please don't worry about giving away the ending, because actually anybody who's listening to this interview is part of the book club, and we have all read the book. I don't think, and I certainly can't remember a book where I have wanted a happy ending quite so much and that for me you call that a happy ending no no but I wanted the ending to be different

that's what I'm saying I was absolutely yearning for Kareli to find some kind of thing for herself to be rewarded for her patience, rewarded for her loyalty. Did you ever consider wrapping it up in a different way? You know what, I don't think I did, even though, and I do get, Fi, I do get what you're saying a lot from people who read it, that they really wanted Horiday to break free. And I think I did want it for her as well, but I just couldn't come to terms with how she would do that. And, you know, I, in the end, I just, her love for Ayola, I really believed superseded her own, her care for herself and would continue to do so. So yeah, no, I kind of,

I think I knew, maybe not right from the start, but fairly early on, I knew it was not going to end well for her. And do you think that we will ever meet the characters again? Would you write them into something else? I mean, I might, maybe not immediate. Well, it's already been like five years, but I might someday, sometimes I kind of think about what would how it would work out for them you know going forward um um but I don't think I'd want to jump again it's been five years I wouldn't be jumping right back into it but um yeah I don't I don't feel the urge to do it right now but sometimes I do play with the idea of what they are doing now and how how they're

managing themselves do you read and enjoy crime fiction yourself yeah I do I do I watch a lot I watch more than I read but I read um I read a lot of crime I read a lot of fantasy those are like my two main genres I think when it comes to reading at at least these days. But yeah, I definitely take in a lot of crime. It's, I think you've said that you can't be expected. I mean, Nigeria is a huge, a huge country. It's a very complex one. And you're quite keen, I think, to point out that your book is just one family, one set of circumstances, and obviously they're fairly extraordinary circumstances. But have you been under pressure to, I don't know, to portray a certain, or to portray Nigeria in a particular way?

To portray? I think, you know, when I genuinely, when I'm resistant, it's more about answering questions about Nigeria. Because, you know, I haven't even been to half of Nigeria and there's so many different cultures, so many different languages. I don't know if anybody could do justice, to be honest, to the whole of Nigeria. But in terms of pressure to portray, I don't think so. I think the most, I remember once getting a message from a reader who was a little bit upset with me for, because I mean, if you've read the book that you know that Corridé is darker skinned and Ayalai is light skinned and there's been a lot of colorism and I suppose still is in Nigeria. So she was a little bit upset that I had portrayed the dark-skinned person as being the less attractive one, which I was really pained by because, I mean, I did do that and I knew what I was doing when I did it. But I've also written stories where, you know, I have loads of short stories where the darker person, you know, is the most attractive or is quite attractive in and of themselves.

And I think, but I knew what I wanted for my sister, the serial killer. And that worked for my intentions because at the end of the day, colorism is real and it does happen. But I think that's the only time I felt kind of, it wasn't pressured already. But I did and then I think sometimes I do feel get a sense of you know wanting to because some I realized with my sister the serial killer that for a lot of people it's their first exposure to Nigeria and knowing that now is its own pressure because I I'm like, whatever I say, some people might think, oh, this is it. This is Nigeria.

This is what Nigeria is like. And, you know, as you pointed out, this is just one family or one story. It's not the whole, and it's fiction as well. So I think sometimes that's also a little bit challenging. What would you recommend

if we asked you to choose our next book club book oh what are you reading at the moment or have read recently that you've loved and actually you can you can give us another one of your own books if you want um i don't know what genre do you does your book club anything we will take not fussy anything i mean okay so i think if you're still if you're still in nigeria um i've always loved the book secret lives of baba segi's wives um it's hilarious um i just and it's memorable i think they've actually done plays here as well of the book. So I suppose that would maybe be my recommendation. Oyinka Braithwaite.

And actually, can I just say, it did make a difference that we could talk to the author. It was lovely, wasn't it? Yeah, it was really nice. I'm really grateful to her for making herself available because frankly, she doesn't need to. So thanks to her for that. And it was a shame

i think i would have i think i'd have learned more about fresh water for flowers and understood it better if we've been able to talk to the author but you can't have everything voiceover describes what's happening on your iphone screen voiceover Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day.

Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Go back to school with Rogers and get Canada's fastest and most reliable internet. Perfect for streaming lectures all day or binging TV shows all night. Save up to $20 per month on Rogers Internet. Visit rogers.com for details. We got you, Rogers. Let's go to the reactions.

Yes, okay. So Elsie says, I didn't enjoy this book. I couldn't suspend disbelief. No sympathy with any of the characters. Too many superficial characters. Ending also in the air. I hope your next book is more joyful.

And I liked Elsie's thing just because actually there wasn't very much joy in it. And I think if Karade had had a happy ending with her coma man, then that would have felt a little bit joyful. But joy wasn't a part of the plot at all, was it? We should say that the guy did wake up from the coma. She wasn't planning to do anything very unpleasant with the man in a coma. In fact, there's a real moment of peril in the book

when this man, Mukhtar, wasn't it, wakes up from the coma because our heroine has been telling him quite a lot about what's going on yeah and i love that twist i like that actually that's been in quite a few books hasn't it um telling somebody your life story who is in a coma who you don't think is going to wake up i think it's at the heart of one of dawn french's books oh is it okay well yes it is yeah it's. Yeah, but can I just say, in real life, it's not advisable. Okay. Don't do it.

Well, I mean, if you've gained one thing from listening to the podcast, it's definitely that. Can we now hear from Alice? Great choice for a book club read. Not a book I usually would have picked up, as I'm not keen on reading about blood and gore or violence, but this book didn't really dwell too much on that side of things. I pitied the main character, Karidi,

who didn't seem to be well-liked or have anything going for herself in her life. I didn't understand why she burnt the phone number of the man in the coma, who seemed like her only friend. The story went into details on his life and family, which didn't appear to lead to anything. What I found strangest was that the tale didn't have any kind of retribution for the serial killer at the end. Yes, Ayula got stabbed and Tadei escaped death, but the ending seemed to be accepting of her as

just being this way and that she would likely kill again. At least this is how I interpreted it, and I did not find it a satisfying conclusion. If it were a TV show, I would see this as an attempt at getting a second series. So I love that point, Alice, and there's something really TV-friendly about the book, don't you think, Jane? Yes, and I think I read somewhere that it is likely, it has been optioned. The problem with the business of show is that things can take forever to get from that somebody taking a real interest in a book and buying up the rights to actually making the series or film. But it would be great.

Do you think that that's a key feature of the book actually it is very visual isn't it yeah so it's not a book that dwells on internal emotions or spells out people's motivations it is very much viewed as a series of actions isn't it is the and in that way is very very different from fresh water for flowers which I know you found sometimes. The very long, slow bake on the baguette of emotions was slightly frustrating for you. There were times when I was quite jealous of those people in that cemetery. Stop it.

It's a very mean thing to say. I loved that. No, it was very nice, very sensitive. Rosie says, I loved it. Really easy read with humour and an uncomfortable inevitability about future events i like the main character i felt she was terribly and very understandably conflicted like fee i was thrown by the ending i had to reread and consider what it meant for a long time my conclusion was that she was going to allow her sister to continue with her behavior because she

loved her but i did, only momentarily, if she herself was involved with the murders herself. I thought it was a good choice and I can't wait for the next one. Thank you. Well, that's good. Thank you very much indeed for that, Rosie. And thanks to everybody who contacted us on this. Really big response and we're really grateful. This one from Amy. I read this in one sitting on a Sunday evening and enjoyed the gentle comedy, sisterly bonds and mild violence. Amy says, I like the pace of the book and the relationship between the sisters felt real, the bickering and arguments, but ultimate love and affection.

And the saying, I'd do anything for my sister, rings true. She goes on to say the backstory of the sisters and the death of their father was woven into the story well and provides an explanation for Ayula's penchant to end her relationships dramatically and I also liked how despite all the murder there wasn't an overload of graphic gory detail. The choice Karedi made to stand by her sister causing Tade to lose his job for stabbing Iola was understandable. If his character had been more rounded and less predictable if he and karedi had developed a romantic relationship and he had perhaps broken with her to start dating

her sister the choice she makes in the bond between her and iola could have created more conflict and suspense overall though i enjoyed the story as a cozy weekend read cozy cozy crime i'll never i'll never be entirely at home with that concept it is still a bit odd isn't it anyway i the character of tardy i i was i think a few people have expressed this a bit disappointed that he didn't initially i thought he was going to get together with karedi and then he's he was his head was swiveled yes too easily far too easily so he was it wasn't you know he wasn't a saintly figure uh I like this from Jin, who just says, I read it and enjoyed it,

and then I couldn't think of anything interesting to say about it. I remembered why I'd only got D in GCSE English Lit. I have always loved reading, but I never knew how to put my feelings about a book into words, and it seems I'm no different 30 years on. So I enjoyed the story. It was fast-paced writing with short chapters, making it easy

to fit into my life. It was really interesting to reading snippets of Nigerian life. Well, Jin, don't be hard on yourself. That's absolutely fine. I mean, you can assess it any which way you like. And that's your assessment. And I, I completely get that whole business of short chapters making it easy to fit into life. Reading should be pure pleasure. It shouldn't ever be something you feel you have to do. So thank you very much for taking part. We appreciate it. Anne says, I'm probably guilty of reading books by mainly UK authors, so it's great to be introduced to something different.

I listened to the book and the narrator was excellent and I think I probably enjoyed it more than if I'd read it. I enjoyed the humorous touches towards the end i almost wanted iola to get caught so that karedi no longer had to carry the burden of being responsible for her sister and i felt sorry for tade who had his life and career ruined by iola but he can't say he wasn't warned well exactly but i thought that was a really interesting point about listening to it, because maybe the humour in the narrator's voice meant more when you were listening to it on an audiobook, because I didn't think it was a particularly humorous book, actually.

Some of the characterisations were funny, weren't they? The receptionist. Yeah, the lazy, laziness. And the funny love triangle with a very dubious cleaner. Yeah, well, Mohammed, the cleaner, yes. I mean, he got a slightly, yes, I mean, he didn't get the best, he didn't appear to have the best reputation as a cleaner. No.

Because he wasn't doing a lot. But there might have been something in the voice of the narrator that managed to convey that, that I didn't quite get from the page. I totally get Jin's point as well about Nigerian life, because I don't know anything about Nigerian life, daily life in a Lagos hospital. And Oinka was very, very careful to point out that, you know, as we said in the conversation,

it's a vast country, Nigeria. It's absolutely huge and it's incredibly diverse. And she's just writing from her perspective about the sort of people she understands and knows. So I think it was a really lovely thing to be able to do, just to dip into another life, because I just know next to nothing, to my shame, about Nigeria. Have you read Abidare's The Girl with the Louding Voice?

No, but a couple of people have recommended that, haven't they? They have, yep. And a couple of people have said that that is absolutely their favourite of the modern Nigerian novels to hit the global scene over the last couple of years. And I think it was Andy Oliver's Book of the Year, maybe the year before last? Whatever Andy says, I do, Jane.

Well, absolutely. Actually, Paola says that. She wasn't loving My Sister the Serial Killer, she says. And she goes on to say she's read loads of brilliant Nigerian authors as I've got long family history with the country. But this one didn't grab me. Girl with a Louding Voice is amazing. It's set in the modern day.

And Things Fall Apart is also brilliant, but it's from a different time for Nigeria as it was written in the 1950s. I look forward to hearing the podcast on this one. Well, Paola, I hope you're satisfied so far. And maybe the next book we do will be up your street. We should just say all hail to jemma who has written a thesis for us on the book uh and you uh you do say it drove me

bonkers writing this to you as cathartic even though it won't make the airwaves and we might do a spin-off podcast just to include all of your thoughts jemma uh but do you know what it's really lovely that you've got so involved in it and actually thought to write all of your thoughts, Gemma. But do you know what? It's really lovely that you've got so involved in it and actually thought to write all of your points down. So we won't have time to read it all out. What is her best point? Oh, so there are quite a few, actually. Some of the little phrases that she picks out,

page 36, Jane. Yes. The knife is important to me, Corrida. It is all I have left of him. And Gemma says, perhaps if it was someone else at the receiving end of this show of sentimentality, her words would hold some weight. But she cannot fool me. It's a mystery how much feeling Ayula is even capable of. So it's little points like that, that I thought actually, there is a little bit of, there was a little bit of that for me as well, where I didn't get connected enough to Iola right at the beginning to understand everything about her.

So sometimes when she did things and said things, I didn't quite understand. There was a point, do you remember, in the book where she finds the diamond engagement ring in Tarday's office and she takes it out and she starts smashing it against the floor, smashing it against the tiles. takes it out and she starts smashing it against the floor smashing it against the tiles and um i just didn't that wasn't a part of her that i felt sat well okay do you don't make sense i was kind of like oh i'm not sure she would do that if i hadn't created her it's not up to me you don't know her no i don't know her at all um i also just want to mention briefly how the book starts. And I love the chapter titles. And quite a few people pointed out that the chapter titles are more often than not just one word, which I think is always very effective. I think they're all one word, actually.

I just want to make this. Yes, they are all one word. And it can be everything from ice cream to sheep. Father, I think, features more than once. And that's because their father was a horrible, violent man. The, I think, features more than once. And that's because their father was a horrible, violent man. The sister's father, that is. But the book just starts with the sentence

I bet you didn't know that bleach masks the smell of blood. Now that is the way to start a book, isn't it? I mean, I wish I could write a novel. I can't. If I could, and if I ever will, I'll remember that. And also, if I ever do. if you ever need to mop up a murder scene now you know something would you stand by me if it turned out many people had

not made it through let's bring in anne um let's let's hear from anne because i like what she had to say you make such a big thing about being the older sister. Come in, Anne, quickly. It's not really ringing true, is it, listeners? Hello, Anne. The short and punchy chapters of this book made me read it very quickly, and when I got to the end, my thought was, is that it? I then read the interview with the author and saw that she had written it in a kind of frenzy. On the second reading, I felt able to appreciate the subtext, which is implied, not detailed. The abuse the girls had suffered at the hands of their father, and Ayula's almost certain abuse at the hands of the man her father makes a bargain with.

These incidents undoubtedly damaged and shaped Ayula's psyche, making her into a woman who plays with men's feelings and ultimately kills them. I really didn't find any humour in the book, just felt sad for the lives the women were now living. Karade's resignation that this was her lot, to support and help her sister whenever needed at the expense of her own chance of happiness, also left me feeling very flat. Violence against women may not have been described in graphic detail,

but was present all the same. Yes, and I thought ann's point there the last one about violence against women being present was a really really good one um the girls the sisters their loyalty to each other obviously takes them to a very extreme place indeed but they had suffered together and there was something about the descriptions of the father's, what was it, the stick he kept. So it's the cane. The cane, that's right, yeah. That is used as a symbol of the importance of a man, isn't it?

Because it's not the father's cane, it's the cane belonging to men who come, who want to take his daughters away and marry them. Marriage, yes. That's the sign. So that's an interesting point, actually, Jane. Did you feel that as soon as you started to realise the violence of the father,

that that was actually the whole point of the book? That if you've had violence meted out to you as a child, it's not excusable that you then mete out violence yourself, but it's definitely understandable. Well, those people who always deserve our admiration are those people who do grow up, did grow up around violence and break the cycle and never, ever, ever behave like that themselves. But obviously their father did.

He was brutal. He was a brute. And, you know, as you said at the beginning oinka is is just taking that horrible but very successful literary conceit plot of the serial killer who's a bloke who hunts down women in dead of night and is eventually caught uh usually by a male detective um she's just looking at it from another angle. And it is disturbing. I understand that not everybody has enjoyed this and felt very uncomfortable reading it.

But hey, it's a twist on the usual. My final choice will be from Pam, who says, thanks for choosing this book, which I devoured in just three sessions. I found it fast-paced, funny and and gripping as well as deep and thoughtful so much so that i even photoshopped one page that really struck home with me and pam has very thoughtfully put in brackets please note no personal connection with the serial killer aspect close brackets good to know because we would have to send the authorities around i mean you can tell

us stuff but we can't keep it we're not i don't have to say jane nobody else has bothered to point that out we might have all kinds of trouble on our hands you don't if you ever do email us you don't need to say that you're not a serial killer we will make that assumption. OK, Pauline says, this book was awful. I was still in shock it was selected. I downloaded it yesterday morning, listened to it while on a long car journey. Did you take the toll road, Pauline? I always want to know that kind of detail. When I finished it, I wanted to scream I found it so frustrating.

Thankfully, I was able to return it to Audible and got a credit back on my account, which I can use for the next one. I didn't know you could do that. I love the previous book and I was so sad when I finished it as I wanted that one to go on forever. Pauline, I think it's fair to say that you and I do not have similar tastes. But hey, that's what life's all about. We can't all be the same. No, thank goodness we're not. but thank you to everybody uh who has very thoughtfully emailed in and thank you for voice notes thank you for all kinds of things thank you just thank you if you want to thank people just just enough thanks to everybody who took the time not just to read the book but to get involved with the podcast we do appreciate it we were slightly we weren't sure whether this would be a thing were we when we started doing this well the book club. The book club, because let's face it, there are quite a few out there.

But it's been really enjoyable. Yeah, I'm loving it. I'm really enjoying it. Especially because so far those two choices, I don't think that I would have come across either book, actually. No, exactly. With enough kind of persuasion to read them. So I'm very grateful.

Yeah. Should we ask for suggestions? What a. Yeah. Should we ask for suggestions? What a good idea. Could you ask for suggestions? So what we need now, of course, is more suggestions. More suggestions from you, please, for the next book.

And we've got one already. Jacqueline says, I would like to suggest Memphis by Tara M. Stringfellow as a future read. Well, I never heard heard of that one. Never heard of that, but I love anything that is set in that part of America.

It can often be a really... How do you know it is? Well, I'm assuming it's Memphis, Tennessee. Might be a person, you're right. Yeah. But I'm hoping it isn't. And I do love an author who pops their initial in. Yes.

Jacqueline goes on to say she's about to start Bourneville. That was the book I was going on about, the one that I just found so moving. So I really hope you enjoy that, Jacqueline. I wish we could make that the book club choice. No, but the whole point Yes, I've got to read another book. Yes, that's right. Is that our listeners suggest things to us.

Yes. Not the other way around. It's not top down, Jane. It's bottom up. Jacqueline's top of the class for getting in first. You can join her and be part of that list that we will select something from that I hope Pauline, who absolutely loathed my sister the serial killer, will enjoy. Oh, let's please Pauline. Let's definitely please Pauline. Look, full-tone from me, it's janeandfeeatimes.radio.

And if you can just put book club at the top of the email that helps us enormously i say us but i actually mean poor kate or poor eve or poor rosie meanwhile this weekend i'm still too i've got to enjoy the new jeffrey archer you have haven't you and that's homework everybody oh i don't well no you'll enjoy yourself in a Geoffrey Archer book enormously. Thank you very much for taking part in this. It's just a little book club, but it seems to bring a tiny bit of joy. We're bringing the shutters down on another episode of the internationally acclaimed podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler

and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe. But don't forget that you can get another two hours of us every Monday to Thursday afternoon here on Times Radio. We start at 3pm and you can listen for free on your smart speaker. Just shout Play Times Radio at it. You can also get us on DAB Radio in the car or on the Times Radio app whilst you're out and about being extremely busy.

And you can follow all our tosh behind the mic and elsewhere on our Instagram account. Just go onto Insta and search for Jane and Fi and give us a follow. So in other words, we're everywhere, aren't we, Jane? Pretty much everywhere. Thank you for joining us. And we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon.

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