Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Boys who love each other in a military setting (with Aasmah Mir)

Episode Date: May 1, 2024

Jane and Fi deal with lots of official matters in this episode: their work rota, local elections, Ofsted and public nudity...Plus, they're joined by Times Radio presenter Aasmah Mir to discuss her memoir 'Glasgow Girl'.You can book your tickets to see Jane and Fi live at the new Crossed Wires festival here: https://www.sheffieldtheatres.co.uk/book/instance/663601If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiAssistant Producer: Eve SalusburyTimes Radio Producer: Kate Lee Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In that case, I'm surprised there aren't more naturists just wandering around. Well, it's not been the warmest, has it? You might regard doing a podcast as a laughy, but I take it very seriously. Yes, I can tell. Right. So I'm just going to put the book club ones over there. Hang on a sec. Let's make a tidy desk.

Now, we need to make an announcement about that because the book club podcast, which is about a dutiful boy, that's going to come out on Monday. That's a bank holiday treat. It's a Brucey bonus bank holiday. Yeah. We thought that was just a nice thing to do

because we're all hot. It's a lovely thing to do,. Yeah. We thought that was just a nice thing to do because we're all hot. It's a lovely thing to do, isn't it? Absolutely marvellous. But it's also because I'd booked the bank holiday off and then you realise you were working the bank holiday. But now we're both off. Don't worry, everybody, we're both off. Yes, a bit of light rota chat there.

But it's my fault completely. I'm just not organised enough and I hadn't booked it. And then I thought, oh, well, that's fine, I'll work it. And then I just began to be absolutely filled with resentment at the idea of working on a bank holiday when you weren't in particular. So I thought, oh, no, I'm not working anyway. So now I've got a lovely long weekend to look forward to.

Can I say just in our defence, because I know that lots of people have to work bank holidays, but you and I in our time have worked a lot of bank holidays, Christmas days, boxing days, New Year's days and all of that kind of stuff. And it's one of the few little treats that I just quite enjoy. In your dotage. In my dotage of just thinking,

oh, I actually know I'd like to be off on a bank holiday yeah i mean in fairness to us and why would anyone be fair to either of us we have done some um ungodly hours over the years without question and um i always think about the up all night election shifts when local elections are hoving into view with brilliant coverage i have to say promised across Times Radio. And I'll certainly be dipping in and out during the course of the night if I can get my Alexa dot sorted out.

I thought I'd set it up properly, but it doesn't respond very well. And she couldn't hear me today. And I actually, at one point I said to her, I am a broadcaster. You must be able to hear me. Does she tell you that she can't hear you? She's quiet.

Well, maybe your microphone's off. What? Yeah, that happens a lot to our... Can't really work out what it is, but it's got Google Home on it. OK, I thought I'd done so well because I plugged it in and it seemed to be completely aware of its surroundings and told me the weather almost immediately. And then on message, Mandy had a little moment

and I asked Playtime's radio and she did it. But this morning, it's been all over the place. Anyway, I need to... It's all new to me, this. So I'm determined not to ask a young person how to sort it out. No, you stick with it, girlfriend. I'm going to do it. But also, then that will bond you with your Alexa. You can actually operate her yourself.

Thank you. And if anyone says, what are you doing this bank holiday weekend? I can say quite truthfully, I'm trying to sort out the Alexa dot. Yeah. My worry is that Alexa might sense a vulnerability in you and take over. Well, she can't. You may never be seen again. Well, that's possible. So if she rolls in on Tuesday, and she will be rolling because she's a shape, spherical, then you can alert the authorities.

Yeah. I tell you what would be quite good fun, and I don't know whether we'd ever be able to manage this, but it would be quite funny, wouldn't it, if one of us could be replaced by an AI bot for a podcast. So if you could just get one of those highly programmable robot people and I'll happily volunteer to be replaced by a robot for an episode. Well, no, don't give it away because the whole point would be

guess which one isn't real. Well, that's an even better idea. I think we've slightly ruined it. Well, no, we won't tell people when it is and we'll lob that at you further down the field. But you're absolutely right to say Times Radio is where you want to be for your local election, mayoral election

and one by-election coverage coming your way. Callum MacDonald and Matt Chorley are really putting in the shifts, aren't they? They're both doing kind of two lots in the evening and then very early in the morning and then Matt's got his show from 10 till 1 and it will be brilliant because they just know their stuff.

There won't be any erring or umming or having to look up some district council. They'll be completely across it so we can highly recommend it. Yeah, no, we can. My longest ever election night was with a, I was a co-presenter and there was a very little heavy lifting

on the word co there because I didn't get a lot to do. But I was in the company of a still working, notable Scottish broadcaster whose surname suggests he's poorly behaved. Do you know who it is? I do. So just to be clear, it's not Nicky Campbell. It's not Nicky Campbell. But the guy never shut up. I mean, that was... I know, but that is actually... I'm going to leap to his defence.

Why? It was the longest eight hours of my life. Well, that is what he's being paid for. It's absolutely wrong of him not to have let you have more to say. I'm sure he'd say. But I do like the fluency sometimes. Well, I think he's a great broadcaster. And he had...

It was so long ago that he had a system of filing cards. I remember. Do you remember? Yes, I remember seeing them. So if the sub... And it was a general election that long night. And I'm pretty certain that it was all alphabetical. So if there was something going on in Tunbridge Wells,

he could just go to tea, whip out the card, and it would say, you know, Tory MP, Sir What's-It-Fits-Bigs, has majority 189,323. In second place, Liberal Democrat, six. So do you think he was worried because you didn't have that? I didn't have any filing cards. And every now and again, I would get to give the latest results

that had come in that weren't interesting enough to have a reporter at them, but were just relatively run relatively run of the mill so constituencies that you'd expect to be Labour were indeed returning a Labour MP so every now and again and I'm talking every hour and a bit I would just get the chance to read out yeah that's not co-presenting somewhere up north Labour hold somewhere, Tory Hold. That sort of thing. Honestly, and then I just remember the shortest, no, the longest, the longest night of my life,

but the worst time was just after 3am, which I think, isn't that statistically... The time that if you're going to leave this earth is the most likely time. So between 3 and 3.30, if you are not used to keeping those hours that is the toughest time to be up and awake it really is yeah yeah okay anyway i'm over it now as you can all tell good good do you know i am very much hoping for the general election whenever that's going to be uh that you and i will be uh sent to counts because i love a count do you love

a count oh yes well i used to get sent to sonderland oh I love a Count. Do you love a Count? Oh, yes. Well, I used to get sent to Sunderland. Oh, to see the racing. To see the choreographed, really quick result. Yeah. But they lost last time. They weren't. They were second. To...

I think it was a place. I think it was Newcastle. Newcastle, yeah. And they were livid. Yeah, absolutely livid. So they'll be trying to get that crown back. That's a North East derby, isn't it? Oh, it certainly is.

But it is. It is. It's not something they take anything other than very seriously. At this forthcoming general election, there are 11 cabinet ministers, aren't there, who are not certain of retaining their jobs. Yeah, that's true. So there are going to be some were-you-up-fours, that's for sure.

And, yeah, I'm going to very much hope i can take my large tartan thermos and my snickers bars and head to one of those it's the expression on people's faces which is a joy on radio to then have to describe so you know you've got to let the result come through live obviously but then you have to say what everybody looked like on the stage and that kind of magnanimity that is attempted by some people where understandably they're actually thinking i've been sacked and in that moment most people don't manage to look magnanimous and it's quite hard no it is i mean that you know it's their livelihood that's gone so look so much to play for let's move on from politics because apart from anything else, young Eve has got that expression on her face which just says

crack on, for God's sake. And that's because our guest today is Asma Mir and she has written a book that we both loved in its original hardback form when it was called? A Pebble in the Throat. And now it's called? A Glasgow Girl. Because it's in paperback and

the people of Glasgow like a paperback they do and we're going to talk to Asma about the book about the book's really funny as well in places and it's not the first kind of top note that you get from the book because it's a really really meaty memoir about racism and you hear from her mom as well don't you? Yes, and you know just really beautifully told but there's so much fun in it too and one of the things that she did want to talk about this time around was the very long list of films that she hasn't seen

because they just didn't watch films back in the day in her household, so we're going to talk about that and we're also going to talk about dating and it's a really lovely interview and it's quite long because it's worth it we're worth it she's worth dating and it's a really lovely interview and it's quite long because it's worth it. We're worth it. She's worth it. It's a bold editorial statement there.

Now, let's move on to your emails. Good night, Kiwi, is one from Anna, who says, you mentioned recently the days of television finishing at 10.30pm with a national anthem and a black screen. Here in New Zealand, between 1975 and 1994, we had Good Night Goodnight Kiwi, a short animation of a Kiwi as a television camera operator and his cat closing production for the night and bedding down either in the camera or at the top of the TV mast in a satellite dish. You can see these on YouTube by searching up Goodnight Kiwi. Well, that's creative, isn't it? Because we just,

as you said, we just went to a black screen didn't we uh and then they played the national anthem but and somebody does say or did say in a you know a very gentle way good night you know there was there was an element of compassion and understanding there uh but we certainly didn't have a lovely cuddly thing that was a cuddly element would have been gorgeous wouldn't it well it would and if we were going to have something that was animated yeah what would it be gosh um well i'm a bit out of sync with what's popular with the kiddies but then it needs to be something that's popular with everybody um i'd like a jaunty good night from oh god i mean we're talking about a somebody who's big in entertainment

or would you like to hear paddington says eve yes yeah it would have to be something like that it would have to be something like paddington is i think universally loved although i mean there are haters everywhere and we thought everybody had loved our book club choice this month um and they sort of almost all did but some people some people didn't so there must be somebody out there who really doesn't like the cut of paddington's jib if that is you you can tell us i guess jane and fee at time struck radio you're gonna be an outlier though there surely aren't you well i hope that you don't spark some kind of enormous thread of paddington haters that's the last thing i want to do, but this is a safe space

and there might be some people who just can't stand him. Okay. Please don't do the Morris Dancer thing again. Please don't. Do you remember when the author of Paddington, Uncle Michael Bond, died? And it wasn't that long ago, actually,

and at Paddington Station, people were leaving flowers with the Paddington statue. I thought that was so sweet. That's lovely. Yeah, it is so lovely. I mean, actually, you're right, I don't want to hear from anyone who doesn't like Paddington. What's wrong with you?

If you don't like Paddington, just keep it to yourself. It's nasty. Do you want to do one? Yes, I've got one here from somebody who wants to be anonymous and actually I really feel for this correspondent. She's had a miscarriage. She miscarried her second child at eight and a half weeks. She does say her first child arrived safely

and is a happy 16-month-old. She goes on to say, I just can't find the word. Upsetting, traumatic, emotional. I'm trying to process it all. Hopefully, I'll have a day when I don't cry in the not-so-distant future. I've had brilliant process it all. Hopefully I'll have a day when I don't cry in the not so distant future. I've had brilliant support from my husband and daughter whose smiles and cuddles

have lifted me daily, though also reminding me of what we're missing with a second. I often think how remarkable it is that 20% of pregnancies end this way. And I know just two people that this has happened to. We are surrounded by brave and resilient women who've been through this but we don't know who. This gives me strength to realise so many others have been through this. Another thing I want to mention is the knowledge and information about miscarriage. The staff at the early pregnancy unit have been kind and caring but, this is what I really wanted to mention mention the information about the physical miscarriage itself was way off I won't go into detail but the description of pain and what to expect was underplayed I was grateful to have been through a vaginal birth as I would otherwise

have been woefully unprepared and likely to be in a bit of a panic so to that listener I'm so sorry you've been through this it is utterly grim and i just think she's right to say that it is sometimes underestimated it is not just a painful business it's quite gruesome and messy and it isn't over all that quickly either i know some women have a dnc and they'll go into hospital and they'll have the it's an absolutely dreadful phrase which they use which is something like the elements of pregnancy or somebody will know but it's an absolutely dreadful phrase which they use which is something like the elements of pregnancy or somebody will know but it's a grim medical term for what they do in that procedure and it can leave you utterly shattered so you will feel better i mean i've had miscarriages and i

think they are underestimated as an experience because they are awful and grim and you are sapped of all the pregnancy feel-good hormones like that, gone. And with that comes just a shed load of grief. So to that person, things will get better, honestly. And how brilliant that you've had a child, you know you can have one. I'm almost certain, I'm not a doctor, but I'm almost certain you'll have another. Yeah, I would concur with everything that you've said there. I also think it might be helpful if we're on this topic for people who've been through the experience to better inform people who haven't about what the best thing to say to them is. because actually a couple of friends who had still born at full term babies, Jane,

in those moments afterwards, I felt so inadequate in what the best thing to say would be or something helpful. There's so much that you must want to be able to put into words and I think we don't talk about that at all actually no we don't and it's because i guess it's because it's one of the oh it's the most tragic thing and to those women you know and and to you um who have miscarried i think the conversation around it is uh it's so pressed down isn't it it's one of those things that is just so horrendous to think about we we try and silence it and we try and move on and we try and say you know i hope you'll feel

better or you know whatever it is but but i i don't think we have yet learned what might be more helpful than that no and we would like to know so do let us know i mean it is as our correspondent says there in the email, it's not uncommon. It's really common. But, God, it takes it out of you in every sense, in every sense of that phrase. So, to that person, thank you, and lots of love

really from us both. So, you'll be okay. Right, we've had loads about Ofsted, and we were talking about those one-word summaries, weren't we? um and actually this one uh was we were kind of talking about exams as well weren't we and uh an anonymous mum uh has written in to say I just had to respond to the emailer who said imagine if pupils were given one word judgments outstanding good needs improvement etc and I'd just like to point

out that that is exactly what happens both in annual reports and in the exam systems themselves i have two neurodivergent girls and their exam results will never reflect their true capabilities because they just don't fit the model that's being assessed the exam gradings may be more nuanced than three categories but it's still a very arbitrary way of qualifying someone's intelligence and capability. And I'd be hard pressed to disagree with anything that you've said there. And I do understand that there has to be some way

of comparing a pupil's understanding of what they've been taught to the next pupils. But it just seems so brutal in a world that is seeking to be more nuanced. And all the technology that's advanced, Jane, that enables us to leave a review about whether or not the purchase of a bag of nails has gone well for both parties. What did you think of our delivery of the dusters? has gone well for both parties. What did you think of our delivery of the dusters? Well, I got... I was sent an email the other day

asking me to rate my customer experience of setting up a direct debit. I can't do this. I just don't really understand who you're asking me to grade in this. I'm sorry for the poor sod who's got to read the responses. I know. But do you know what I mean?

When we're being asked to do all of those things, it seems extraordinary that we're still just going, one mark for a child, you know, for an entire seven years of learning in chemistry or whatever it is. So, yeah, let's talk about that a bit more. And here's someone else who's up against it in this department. It's eight o'clock and I'm just heading home from the primary school where I teach year six.

It's a couple of hours later than usual because today we got the call. Yes, 12 hours from now, an Ofsted inspector will arrive for two days of what they describe, and I love this, what they describe as two days of deep diving and light touches. I'm sure there'll be a fair amount of grilling and going down rabbit holes as well. That just sounds wrong. We'll receive a one-word grading. Yes, they are sticking with that system. So I was glad to hear Fi say there are so many other things a parent should do

to find out about a school. I work as part of a fantastic team with great senior leaders and I keep telling myself he'll come and he'll go and afterwards we'll all still be here doing what we do. The children are brilliant, hilarious, fun, tough and inspiring.

And yes, sometimes infuriating. In any one day, we are counsellor, nurse, friend, parent, as well as teacher. So after the inspector has been and gone and graded us, we're going to carry on. Well, thoughts and prayers. And I hope it all goes well. And I mean, I'm always interested in who the inspectors are. And often, I think, almost always, they are former teachers, aren't they? They can't just...

I couldn't suddenly decide to go and become an Ofsted inspector and do deep dives and light touches. But that kind of horrendous phrase, deep diving and light touches, that needs to be made illegal. It does. Of course, I don't understand what that means when you're grading a whole school. Where's the light touch?

It's just... It's the kind of word cobblers that just has infected our language. And I know there's always been a certain amount of pomposity around admin and institutions and authorities but that's just silly. It's utter bunkum. Now, Tim has sent us an explainer, Jane.

A man to explain things. By the way, lots of you trying to guess the comedian who likes to play his own material and to invited house guests. It wasn't Russ Abbott as suggested by wally baylor i love all this keep them coming so tim has said i wanted to respond to your joint consternation concerning public nudity such as the macclesfield cafe incident as it's now going to be referred to

in england and wales public nudity is not in itself a legal offence. The offence of indecent exposure is where a person intentionally exposes their genitals with the intent that someone will see them and feel alarm or distress. And that's part of the Sexual Offences Act 2003. And key to the offence is intent.

The common law offence of outraging public decency requires an act of such a lewd natureence of outraging public decency requires an act of such a lewd nature that it outrages public decency. It occurs in a public place in the presence of two or more people, regardless of whether they actually witnessed it. Key to the offence is the nature of the act. And Tim says, I'm neither a lawyer nor a naturist nor a flasher for that matter. Thank you for clearing that up, Tim. But it seems to me that a naturist going about their normal daily business has no intention of causing alarm or distress so the question here is whether the simple act

of nudity in public is of such a lewd nature as to outrage public decency personally I don't think it is although I would have been surprised and disquieted had I been in the position of your correspondent. And I know many people who would have found it highly offensive. So thank you for detailing all of that. I'm surprised that you need a lewd offence to have happened in the presence of two or more people. I would have thought if it happens to just one person, it's still a lewd offence. Well, we've also got some correspondence here from a magistrate in no lesser place than Berkhamstead. Sit up straight, please. Berkhamstead. How do you say it?

Berkhamstead. Berk-hamstead. Oh, is it Berk-hamstead? No, I don't know. Berkhamstead. Berkhamstead. Berkhamstead. Anyway, this lady is a magistrate.

In order for someone to be convicted of indecent exposure, it must be proved that they've exposed their genitals deliberately, this is the key point, and with the intention of causing somebody alarm or distress. Merely being naked in public is not enough. Yeah, so Tim and the magistrate are absolutely on it for its legal context. But in that case, I'm surprised there aren't more naturists just wandering around.

Well, it's not been the warmest, has it? But that's a really perfectly good point. I think if you're going to do it en masse, I think you probably need to contact the authorities. Because they do that naked bike ride, don't they? Yeah, and there was a naked rambler who kept him getting into trouble. I don't know what's happened to him. I don't know.

I have interviewed him. Yeah, and that was... Yeah, I don't really get it. I think the law needs to be worked on here. And I can't believe for a second that many women are done for indecent exposure. I just don't believe that happened. No, well, I mean, you and I know from our own childhoods

that a flasher just meant a man. Yeah. There was never a young male friend of mine who was being warned that there was a female flasher on the loose in the cloisters of Winchester Cathedral. That just wasn't a conversation that was ever being had. Surely. For a while there was. What, in the cloisters of Winchester Cathedral. That just wasn't a conversation that was ever being had. Surely. For a while there was.

What? In the cloisters of Winchester Cathedral? Well, flashes were quite... It was quite a common offence, I think. Have you been flashed at? I haven't, no. OK. Well, I'm not going to make a joke about it.

No, because it's not funny. It's just so weird and horrible. It wasn't a member of the clergy, though, was it? But anyway, if anyone has any more insights into that, and I suppose just to bring up the terrible blues with their pornographic images in them and stuff like that, you see, I'm caused distress by that. So if that's perfectly allowed,

am I just meant to take my distress and go and have a whiddle somewhere else? I don't know. I don't really understand it. Just go back into the pub and wet yourself. See how they like it. Saturday night. Right, this one comes about bank holidays, travelling on a Monday.

Dear Jane and Fee, I've only just caught up with your Monday episode and I've found my interest peaked. I love that word, peaked. Within the first few minutes. I don't know where Fee is going on holiday, but a useful tip for the future is that Monday till Monday

is always the best plan for any holiday in Spain. This is because Monday is the traditional weekly holiday for hospitality workers, so many bars and restaurants are closed and even in those which are open, menu choices are limited because one should never order fish on a Monday. That's so true. That is true, yeah. And I always think as well, don't eat paella on a Monday. That's so true. That is true, yeah. And I always think as well,

don't eat paella on a travel day. That's been learned through experience. A lot of museums, galleries and other attractions are also closed. So Mondays are a good day to travel because other options are limited. Thank you. That was really helpful.

That's very helpful. I mean, sometimes this podcast is generally, genuinely, it's of use. Well, I mean, sometimes this podcast is generally, genuinely, it's of use. Well, I mean, if the takeaway from our entire careers is not to travel on Mondays in Spain, I'm happy. And get a G-Hick. Oh, no, stop it. Everybody's got a G-Hick who wants a G-Hick now.

I thought that was worth mentioning again. OK. Do you want another one about Monday to Monday holidays? We'll keep it brief because we need to bring in asthma uh this one comes from alice who says we also found ourselves booking a monday to monday villa holiday this year however we've decided to fly back late on the sunday evening primarily so we're home for the monday but also because we often find that's very sensible isn't it so sensible but also because we often find that the final night is spent in anticipation

of the early rise to get out of the villa in time the next day anyway. And so this way, we will still get a full final day of the holiday, but we'll wake up in our own beds on the Monday

rather than spending a day in transit. Well, why not come home a couple of days early? Three or four. Then get the, really properly feel the benefit. If you take that to its logical extreme, that's where we are.

Just don't go away at all. Be like me. I think I'm just too tight or in love with my holidays to be able to sacrifice a final night. And I know what you mean because then you've got to wake the kids up at five o'clock

and everyone's grumpy. You haven't cleaned out the fridge and you don't know whether or not you should take the bedding off and all that type of stuff but i don't know i've paid for it i'm gonna have it jane you're gonna have it i've just caught a glimpse on the telly in here of of our friend jamie redknapp is he advertising his slip-on shoes he's advertising something else at the moment the man's never off but he we are love we were laughing earlier in the week because he was that jim wasn't that Frank Lampard?

Oh, it's his cousin, Frank. You're absolutely right. I think that might have been Frank. But Jamie Redknapp, he used to play for Liverpool, son of Harry, he has got a very lucrative tie-up with sketches. But it's not a very glamorous product. They're good sketches. My mum wears them.

But, you know, she's 90. But also because one of their usps and i'm sorry that is an oxymoron uh is that you don't have to bend down to put them on yeah and fair fair play because listen fair play to your mum but you know you would have thought after a lifetime in sport you'd still be flexible enough to be able to bend down to put your shoes on. Jamie, what's gone wrong? You used to be quite nippy. Asma Mir is our guest this afternoon, star of Times Radio, early morning audio partner of The Stig Abel. And last year, she wrote her memoir about a life growing up in Glasgow, often dealing with the casual and not so casual racism of late 1970s and early 1980s Scotland,

her family's expectations of her and of life in this country. And the beautiful conceit of the book is that it's a memoir, which is also written by her mum. So it takes us, the reader, back to an older generation of women and expectations and their experience of life in this country. Asma came in to chat to us earlier. We started by talking about why the book now out in paperback has a different title now. You know, when you write your first book, you take it so personally,

like this is what I want to call it because X, Y and Z. And so I wanted to call it A Pebble in the Throat for long, long reasons to do with a particular... Asma's just hit the microphone. Do you understand how a studio works?

No, this time I can't speak. I can't, you know, my motor skills are not good. Let's try that again, shall we? So I wanted to call it that, a pebble in the throat. And everyone was fine with that. And then I think there was a lot of people were asking me, why is it called pebble in the throat? Which is fine, because then you can tell them them but i was beginning to have this nagging doubt that there

was a little bit of a kind of loss of connection i've done it again don't worry banging the microphone uh between what the book was about and the title so when it came to paperback um took some advice from the publishers and also from satnam sanghera who's amazing first book um the boy with the top knot in the hardback had a completely different title and he said he said from the publishers and also from Satnam Sanghera, whose amazing first book, The Boy With a Topknot, in the hardback had a completely different title. Oh, did it? He said, do it, do it, do it. It was called If You Don't Know Me By Now.

Okay. Which is a lyric from a song, but it doesn't mean that much. And The Boy With a Topknot says exactly what it is. And I think actually sometimes you do need that. Yeah. So your re-publication, the paperback version, is A Glasgow Girl. Do you miss Glasgow?

I think you've got to be so careful what you say because you don't want to be cancelled in Glasgow or by Glaswegians. I used to miss it a lot more than I do now. I think maybe because I moved away from Glasgow roughly about 98, 99, and it's been a long time. It's like 25 years. So I'm almost reaching a midpoint, actually, where it was maybe 25 there and 25 here. And I think the longer you stay away,

the less connection you have with the place. Obviously, my entire family are now there. My brother used to live in London. He moved back to Glasgow, weirdly, surprisingly. So all my family are still there and I do go back. But I don't refer to it as home anymore. And I did used to say, oh, I'm going back up the road. I'm going home, you know, because home usually is where your parents are. So I don't know whether that's a age thing, years, you know, how many years I've spent here or whether it's just a kind of gradual

disconnection from the place that you don't live anymore. And do you have that thing which often happens where when you go back, you aren't, you're made to feel like the person who's deserted the city and the family. I think it's quite a unique feeling that one, isn't it? It's very interesting because I think especially amongst siblings, and I don't know whether it's a, it's very interesting because i think especially amongst siblings and i don't know whether it's a it's probably not a particular south asian thing it's probably for with everyone actually that there's a quite often you get two siblings at least and one of them has stayed near the parents and they do all the hard work and all the taking to hospital

appointments and all that stuff as the parents get older but the flip side is they've also enjoyed quite a bit of free childcare as well. All I'm going to say, and then you've got people like me swarming off to that London, not really helping out with anything, but having no childcare. And let's face it,

the last couple of years, I could really have done with that. So, you know, swings and roundabouts. Do you find a similar thing when you go back to Crosby? That you are permanently the person who left, even though, ironically, you go back to crosby that this is that you are permanently the person who left even though ironically you're back but my sister left as well you see so this is but i think it's a really good question and i do want to think about this in 90 in the 1980s in the early 1980s

you had to leave liverpool i mean i know you know it's just an economic necessity. Not everybody did, but an awful lot of my generation did. And some did go back, but most of us haven't. And so it is, I wonder though, what happens to people who leave London, don't go abroad, but leave London for another part of the UK? Is that, do people judge that in the same way? Probably not. I don't think they do. I think it's going to London.

That London. You have to say that London. That London is a particular... Bugbear. It can be a bugbear. I don't know why that is. I think for all of us. That's because you've got ideas above your station.

Is that it? It must be. And I think, I mean, Glasgow has quite a bit in common with Liverpool and that probably would be one of them. That slightly, more than slightly, judgmental thing. Yeah, definitely.

Class regions are quite judgy and I include myself in that. Oh yeah, no, I'm absolutely a part of this. I think the interesting thing for all of us, because we've all brought up our children in London, you know, I assume your daughter, your daughters, my two, are born Londoners. Mine were born in camden

it's whether they will they will go or whether there's something about the city living because we all came to a bigger city didn't we that was the that was the necessity for you it was the desire there's the draw of it yeah and i often say to mine choose a nice sensible market town where you can find decent accommodation the find decent accommodation but don't go abroad that's the thing i don't want them to go no neither do i and i wonder whether it might be easier to go more likely perhaps to go abroad from london because london is a massive place yeah yeah yeah with so many possibilities and if you're going to try and better that yeah you're gonna have to leave UK. I have a feeling that my daughter says that she wants to go and live in Glasgow.

She says this all the time. And I think that's, again, that's because it's just me and her. And then when she goes to Glasgow, it's all these people and she loves that. But she doesn't... She could just be trying to wind you up. Yeah, it's more than likely, Jamie, more than likely.

And she also said that she is Scottish. So there we go. She's Scottish, not English. She's Scottish, which is interesting. Does that make you feel proud? It does a bit. Yeah, I bet. I've got to say.

Work that one out. Scottish and British. She sounds very English. London doesn't feature that highly in your regard. We've got so much to talk about and not enough time to talk about it. And both Jane and I had read your really fantastic piece, which was in the Times, was it the Sunday Times about dating?

It was a Saturday Times magazine. Where you were very honest about being divorced and now at the stage post-divorce where you quite like to go dating again. Well, in theory. In theory, yes. That was why you wrote the article. Yes, thank you, Jane, exactly. stage post-divorce where you quite like to go dating again yeah well in theory in theory yes that was why you wrote the article yes thank you jane exactly but what has happened since then not good things well no you say that but we need to say that asthma's already told us that she's

had some well i mean i suppose it was inevitable and it must have been one of the reasons why you probably wondered about whether you should write that article which i also by the way thought was well I mean I suppose it was inevitable and it must have been one of the reasons why you probably wondered about whether you should write that article which I also by the way thought was incredibly honest and well done to you for writing it thank you but you must have had misgivings about writing it because of the attention you might get as a result you know I'm so naive I honestly didn't I just didn't think that anyone you know I tried to write quite a nuanced piece but nuance doesn't always work with certain people and my point of the of the article was you know will I ever date again as in it's a rhetorical question it's not I want to date again and and help me now find me a man it wasn't that it was

kind of like I'm not really sure how to do this because the last time I was on a date was 20 years ago and everything was so different then and what's happened of course people take it all different ways and so many people got in touch and said, I totally get it. Yes, I'm the same. I just don't know what to do. A lot of men got in touch and said, I feel exactly the same way as you. I just don't know what to do and I'm just not going to bother. And that was the end of it. And that's nice. But then I have had a few, quite a few emails from men

who obviously think that I was fishing for a date, that I'm lonely and sad and and and all those things did that come from a good place though do you think um yes I'm sure it did but the thing is I don't feel lonely at all because I am constantly being chatted at by an eight-year-old you know so I'm never lonely and I'm definitely not sad I just honestly feel sometimes I'm very tired but that's to do with getting up three o'clock but I don't feel sad or lonely if I did I not sad. I just honestly feel, sometimes I'm very tired, but that's to do with getting up at three o'clock. But I don't feel sad or lonely. If I did, I would say, and I may do in five or 10 years.

But anyway, some men obviously thought that I was looking for a date, which I honestly, honestly wasn't. So I've had a few emails. Would you like to hear some? We would very much like to hear some. Okay, obviously I'll protect their anonymity, but there's random people from all over the world.

Loved your single article. Bit long and a little boring, so just took the first part. But guess what? I would love to take you to a cute coffee shop someday, so why don't you email me? Your contact info said fill in the form if not urgent, but given I'm a month younger than you,

time is not on our side, so we better get cracking with this dating malarkey. That's one. Oh, my word. I like the way he also found time to judge the quality of the piece, which he hadn't actually

bothered to finish. But to open with that. Wow. He's trying to be a bit like contrary and, you know, the rest of it. Anyway, I got one this morning

while I was doing an interview with another radio station. I'm not going to say the name, but let's just say that there's a first name and a surname and all the rest of it. Anyway, I got one this morning while I was doing an interview with another radio station. I'm not going to say the name, but let's just say that there's a first name and a surname and then the third after it.

Okay? Hi, how are you doing? You are really beautiful. I'd love to talk to you sometime and get to know you better. I'm 51 and single. I live in Minnesota.

That's it. Okay. Well, to be fair, I'm intrigued. I'm not so intrigued. Are you in the market for a long distance thing? No, of course not.

I always think I could probably cope with a submariner. Someone who's away for months on end, allowing me to do my own thing. No? No, no. I think, no, I don't think so. I still want to meet someone organically, but we had a conversation about this feed, didn't we?

Yeah, we did. Where it's probably... The odds are that ain't going to happen. I'm here to tell you it doesn't happen. It's not going to happen, is it? No. I don't think it does, unfortunately. But on the subject of doing the dating apps and doing online dating.

Which I've never done. No, and nor have I. And I realise that's one of the many reasons why I'm single. Yeah. But at the same time... But do you want to be single? Well, it's a good question. Sometimes, absolutely. I'm with you a trillion billion... But do you want to be single? Well, it's a good question. Sometimes, absolutely.

I'm with you a trillion billion percent. Do you want to live on your own? Oh, do I? Because I do. I haven't really in my life ever lived on my own. So the kids are still at home coming and going.

Yeah, yeah, okay. You've got Dora. And I've got an abandoned tabby cat. No, she's not very nice. I love her. We all love her. But she's not a very nice cat. It's just one of those things.

Her behaviour is questionable. But I do think, to go to your point about whether you are happy being single, I would say 90% of the time I am. But that 10% is important and it needs to be acknowledged. Yeah, all I want is to go out for a nice dinner and then maybe hold hands, walk home, peck on the cheek, goodbye, you go your way, I'll go mine. I'll be happy with that.

Well, that's a good way to start. Let's sort of start with that. Also, I think it's just worth saying that it's a little bit like childbirth. You don't often hear the stories of women in particular who just had relatively incident-free births. Nothing much went wrong. Yes, it was painful, but you know, I'm all right now and the baby's lovely and blah, blah, blah.

And it's the same with what I've heard about the current dating planet, is that the only stuff you get, and Fee's got a positive story to tell. Yeah, and so has my sister. She's getting married to someone that she met on an app. But a lot of people just want to tell you about that and that doesn't encourage me. No, but this is a, this is a, a, a, no,

what's the word? A rhetorical question. Yeah. Do we want, and it's nothing to do with age, at this stage in our lives, do we want to be, I don't know, standing naked in front of another man? I'm not sure I do. Sorry if that's a bit X-rated, but you know, I don't think I do. Don't look at me like that, Fi. Maybe not standing, sitting. Stop, because the type of emails we're now going to get... This isn't going to help. You can cut this bit out, it's fine.

I thought I was thinking about it the other day. I think Jane's point is really key, though. Jane's really thinking about it. So many. I can't look at her now. Not in this moment, Asma. is really key though that you hear so many I can't look at her now not in this moment Asma you do hear the terrible stories about dating apps

and it's like seeing the shark's fin in the bay it's just like I'm never going to get in the water again but there are so many positive experiences and I just think mine is a positive experience and after I divorced my husband I just think, you know, mine is a positive experience. And after I divorced my husband, I just had no intention of ever, ever being in a relationship again. And I was happy to have made that decision. But then I got to the pandemic and the lockdowns.

And you know when everybody just ran back into their homes. So I ran back into mine and I found myself there going okay well this is actually the reality because you know in in the previous world I've been really busy I had work I had friends one of the kids was still at primary school which means you have a community that you see every day and it was the lockdown that made me think I actually don't want this for the rest of my life I don't want this to just be me with just you know one kind of you know one butt on the sofa night after night after night making an actual indentation massive indentation actually no the upholsterer said there's nothing we can do with that question

you should see that sofa you gotta get a new one but but the dating app thing i, I'm just here to say, I think if you're really honest and also if you're just, you know, if you just set yourself a really kind of realistic target, and by that I mean you will meet lots of people who you don't have very much in common with and who you don't particularly like. That happens in the real world too. That's true, that's true. And you do get through them. And then, you know, somebody, you just't particularly like. That happens in the real world too. That's true, that's true. And you do get through them.

And then, you know, somebody, you just have an affinity. And I would never have met my partner without a dating app. That's true. And the affinity, we're actually very much in the same world. We're of the same age. You know, we've probably been at the same gigs or parties in London before, but we would never have had the confidence to talk to each other in our mid-50s. You feel very exposed.. You feel very exposed.

Would you feel exposed during that, Jean? Oh God, which is why I don't do it. Yeah. But you have to make yourself vulnerable. Yeah. And I'm not particularly good at doing that. Neither am I, neither am I. And also, I think it's just worth saying

because I'm really interested in the reaction from other people to this. I think sometimes the concept of being contented and single is quite a challenge to the world. Yeah. Particularly if you're female. Yeah. Because, you know, I am, as I say, 90% of the time,

I'm absolutely fine. Yeah, yeah. And actually, there are a lot of people who find that, ooh. Yeah. It's just a little bit. But it used to be like that with me as well, when I didn't have any children, because I didn't have a kid until I was 43,

and they're always a bit like, I used to be challenged all the time. I bet you did. It got really, really wearing after a while. I've told the story before about this man at a party. He was a friend of my ex-husband's, which says a lot about that. And he put his hand in front of my face

and went like this, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. Good God. Your biological clock is ticking. Can I say that? That is outrageous. I know. In a social setting. Kicked in where the sun didn't shine, but I didn't.

Gosh. I just excused myself. I was so annoyed. You've not met the best of men along the way, Asma, at all. But also, don't you think that there are quite a few men out there of our age who would like to only have a girlfriend they see when it's convenient for them maybe when their kids aren't around they've got other things that they want to concentrate on too yeah i don't think it's it's unique to us to want to still have some freedom within a relationship

i think i think if you know yourself doesn't it stand to reason... Let's say something really controversial. Is it true that a lot of, not all men, but a lot of men, when they're divorced, they tend to remarry and couple up much quicker than divorced women? I think that the stats bear that out. And I think some men like to be in a relationship because they like to be looked after, they like to have someone else there, whatever it there. And there's nothing wrong with that.

There's nothing wrong with saying, oh, I want to be looked after as long as that doesn't mean like basically cleaned up after. It just means like someone else being there. Sometimes it can be. Sometimes it can, of course. I'm trying to be as fair.

There's so many nice guys out there. I just haven't met any. But it's not a priority. So stop emailing me. But if you'd like Asma to be your housekeeper she also does a bit of radio work

but also you just have to be so careful who you introduce to your children as well which is such a massive

massive thing let's just give the book some welly shall we let's do that I forgot we were here for a reason I know

I know it's fine lovely chat though it welly shall we let's do that I forgot we were here for a reason I know I know it's fine lovely chat though it's really I think it's so interesting to talk about it really is interesting later in life dating yeah and I think

we do need to talk about and I really really know that we're going to get loads of emails now from people on every side of this argument

it's not an argument every side of this experience yeah and we'll talk more off air off air off air off air we're never off air not even on off air we are there's a fantastic list in your book of films that you haven't seen and uh it is well i mean it's two pages long isn't it and we

just wanted to go through some of them with you just so people people really know the gaps that there are in your cultural experience. And then you tell me whether you've seen it. Okay. But can you explain why you hadn't seen any films as a normal film as a kid? Because you had to, to see films in those days, you had to actually go to the cinema, right? You couldn't, you know, sit in your room and watch it on Netflix or pay £15.99 or whatever ridiculous price it is.

So you had to actually go out. And at that period in my life, I really didn't have any friends because of all the kind of bullying that had gone on. So I was just at home in my room and never got to go to the cinema. So that whole period of my life, I didn't go to cinema at all. And it kind of, then it got too late.

People say to me, oh, you need to watch Dirty Dancing now. And I'm like, what's the point really? No, it's not gonna, these things are probably not gonna stand up that well because of because of you know the passage of time so I'll probably never see any of these films but normal teenagers did so do you find quite often that people will make a cultural reference that just leaves you blindsided yes yes and I and I'm quite happy now just to say I've not seen that because Because the thing on The Breakfast Show on Times Radio,

it's like, oh, what have you seen? Have you seen this film? No, you've not seen this film, Asma. Yeah. So Footloose makes no sense to you. I've seen the video on Top of the Pops because it was a song that got into charts and so I've seen clips from the film on Top of the Pops.

That's it. Okay, E.T.? No. You should see that. Should I? And i think your daughter would love it too okay yeah should i just pick some random ones out and and we can just try and give you a kind of one-liner as to what you might have missed in life okay by not having seen superman the theory that men have special powers and if they just put on a cape,

it'll all be all right. Okay. I might give that a miss. That's only once you've done their washing and ironing. You've got to wash the cape first. Yeah, okay. Somebody has to iron that cape. What are you?

Nine and a half weeks. Oh, I have seen that. So that's a sexy one, isn't it? Oh, it's dead sexy. Actually, I didn't find it. It's Mickey Rourke, isn't it? Yeah. So you don't know what to do with an ice cube?

Oh, yeah. Maybe I need to find out what to do with an ice cube if I ever go on a date. Oh, no, it's just a really... Third date. At least third date. Yeah, tell you what. They're having a sexy scene.

Not unless the temperature in Britain goes up. And also, I don't remember in that scene with the ice cube that somebody had to go to the fridge, scene with the ice cube that somebody had to go to the fridge get out the ice cube drain bash it exactly

only to find that all of them fall out when you only want it exactly someone must know how to do that properly exactly there's probably a

short video on YouTube isn't there what about When Harry Met Sally oh no that's an absolute nailed on classic now in the darkest days of lockdown we watched that as a household I've seen the scene about when Harry met Sally. Oh, no, that's an absolute nailed-on classic.

Now, in the darkest days of lockdown, we watched that as a household. I've seen the scene. No, all of it is a lockdown. The faking the orgasm scene, that's it. Well, that's the ultimate, can a man and a woman be friends? Yes.

Which is a really, actually, very interesting concept. I also thought that film stood the test of time, I would say, based on my most recent viewing of it. What do you think of it? Well, I agree, and I think it's a fantastic sentiment, and it stands the test of time, I would say, based on my most recent viewing of it. What do you think of it? Well, I agree. And I think it's a fantastic sentiment and it stands the test of time. Okay, I might give it a go.

Yeah. Working Girl. I don't know how you found a place in a modern business life if you've not seen Working Girl, really. I know, what was it? I have a head for business and a bod for sin. I know that.

I've seen the clips. Yeah. But I've never seen the whole thing. Okay. Melanie Griffith. Yes. I found that. I can't remember that at all.

I think it's Sigourney Weaver as well. Oh, okay. Yeah, that sounds about right. Do you remember that? Dan Johnson? Not Dan Johnson. He was attractive for a while. He was in Miami Vice.

Don Johnson. Don Johnson. Was he in Working Girl? I don't know. Or is that someone else? I'm not. Okay, we sound mad now michael douglas i tell you what just say a man's name any name douglas michael if mark commode and simon mayo were listening uh feeling very smug about that but working girl was the first time that I ever saw a woman wearing trainers with a business outfit.

Yes, I do remember that clip. Because she had to march to work and all that kind of stuff. And I don't know why, but that was just one of those hugely influential. I want to do that. I want to be so busy that I have to wear trainers to get somewhere. What are you wearing today? Trainers. And I'm wearing trainers.

I'm wearing boots. Flat boots. At least I can get places. You've not seen the film. No, I haven't. You don't know. No, I know. I'm excluded from this club.

Right, and a final one. What shall we pick? I mean, it is quite a long list, actually. It really is. What would Asma Mir not know by not having seen Blade Runner? What even is that?

Oh, that's the futuristic Harrison Ford's in that. Oh, futuristic. Oh, don't you like that? I love a bit of that. Well, it's a bit depressing. Perhaps not warm for you.

Okay. The better one to pick would have been Top Gun. Oh, now. Yes. So Stig constantly pick would have been Top Gun. Oh, yeah. Yes. So Stig constantly says I need to watch that. I bet he does.

Yes, it's all about boys who love each other. Is it? In a military setting. Okay. It is, isn't it? It is. But do you know what?

That's like one of those weird translations that they do sometimes where they've got it really wrong. You know, you're on a plane and the film has been dubbed. So instead of calling it Top Gun, it's called, what was it? Boys Fall in Love with a Military Setting.

Boys who love each other in a military setting. Sounds like a category in a quiz show. Boys who love each other in a military setting. Go, your ten seconds starts now. That's celebrity pointless, isn't it? What's happened? Right,

Asma, it's very, very nice to see you. Thank you very much indeed for taking the time out of your very busy day. A Glasgow Girl is a memoir

of growing up and finding your voice. It's by Asma Mir and it's very good. It's a very, we really, really love the book. And you're not

just saying that. No, not just saying it at all and just to entice people even more it's a really brilliant conceit as well isn't it because you write it with your mum it's her experience as well

so it's a life looked at kind of two ways and it's absolutely brilliant and it's full of this lovely stuff as well about films and culture and sweeties in the 1970s too. What was your favourite to end? Favourite sweetie? Drumstick. No, strawberry sherbets.

Not the sherbet lemons, they're a bit too acidy. The strawberry sherbets. Lovely. Amazing. Thank you Asma. Asma Mir's memoir is now called A Glasgow Girl and it's out now. And both Jane and I really enjoyed it. It's got this fantastic conceit in it, hasn't it,

where she writes her story and her mum writes her story. So you get two views from opposite sides of the bay, don't you, of all of the same things going on and it's lovely. Yeah, I thought that was a really fresh way to do this sort of book. And I'm not... That sounds a bit judgmental, but I really mean it, and it properly works. It's also really, really well written. It is, yeah.

Because not every book is. No, well, as we've found out, I mean, quite a few broadcasters can't write. That's true. However, asthma is an exception. So, A Glasgow Girl is out now. Highly recommended. Right, we're back tomorrow. Keep your A Glasgow Girl is out now. Highly recommended. Right, we're back tomorrow. Keep your emails coming. Jane and Fi at times.radio.

Well done for getting to the end of another episode of Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe. And don't forget, there is even more of us every afternoon on Times Radio. It's Monday to Thursday, three till five. You can pop us on when you're pottering around the house or heading out in the car on the school run. Or running a bank. Thank you for joining us and we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon. Don't be so silly. Running a bank?

I know, ladies. A lady listener. I know, sorry.