Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Covered in Coronation glitter and glitz (with Emma Bridgewater and the American Viscountess)

Episode Date: May 5, 2023

One more sleep until Coronation day, and Jane and Fi are struggling to contain their excitement. So, they're bringing you an extra special coronation countdown episode of Off Air. Jane and Fi are joined by Emma Bridgewater, ceramics and pottery designer, and by Julia Montagu, known as the American Viscountess If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Assistant Producers: Kate Lee and Morgan Burdick Times Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Are you all up and running, Kate? I can't hear myself. I can hear myself. Absolutely beautiful. Beautiful, wonderful, marvellous, lovely. So we are one day to go, one sleep to go, to the coronation, Jane. I know, and we've never been able to say that before, have we? No. Because even I wasn't alive in 1953. Why do you pretend? But you've actually aged very well.

Yes. No, I really wasn't. I'm just trying to think. So no, I wasn't even thought my parents hadn't even, well, actually they had met, but they weren't going out. Do your parents ever talk about that coronation? Do you know where they watched it or heard about it?

I do know. So my dad was doing national service. In fact, it cropped up last week when I saw them. He was doing national service in Nottinghamshire and he was on duty and they didn't watch it because they couldn't. He was doing some, I think he, God knows he talks about this a lot, but I don't always listen. It's a terrible thing to say.

He was in a radar establishment. So they were watching the skies over Nottinghamshire it's all back to apocalyptic anyway uh that so that's what he was doing and my mum went with my nan and granddad ran to her neighbours who had a telly and they all gathered together in a room and watched a really tiny screen yes gosh what about you well I did ask my mum about it actually the other other night, and she said she would have been really quite young at the time. I don't think they had a television to gather around, but she thinks that actually it's one of those strange memories because she then saw so much of it detailed throughout her life in clips and whatever.

She feels like she probably did watch the whole three hours. But she did say that she was a very, very big fan of the modernisation that has at least halved the amount of time. Because she said it just went on and on. And on and on. And on and on.

It was over three hours long, wasn't it? Oh yeah, it was absolutely ludicrously long. And also I think if we were to see it, and the only time I've really ever seen it is, have you been to see the crown jewels at the Tower of London? Yeah. They show the Queen's coronation on a kind of loop as you enter the crown jewels and the crown jewels exhibition.

And it's just a sea of white faces, which happily is something I don't think we're going to see tomorrow. I think they are making an effort to make this much more diverse. I think we might be surprised as well by what everybody turns up in because we might have Kate, the Princess of Wales, with a garland of flowers instead of a pinned tiara. I think it'll be a tiara. Do you? OK.

As you know, I literally have no expert advice at all to give, but I'd be surprised if it was flowers. Well, let's prepare to be surprised. I suppose we could be. Well, we'll be surprised on Times Radio, won't we? Because that's where we're going to be. Absolutely. And we have been delving into what we hope are some interesting people's thoughts, memories, conjecture and opinion all about the coronation over the last week.

And one of the guests who we have entertained at Times Radio headquarters is Emma Bridgewater, who founded her ceramics company in 1985. and over the course of those decades between then and now Emma Bridgewater has commemorated some very, very significant nearly all of the significant royal events. So I'm sure, can you picture the cups, the spongeware that she makes? Oh yeah, yes, absolutely. So it's quite a thick cup, isn't it, that I think defines Emma Bridgewater. You can get them small medium and large and everything from the uh announcement of the engagement of sarah the duchess of york and prince andrew i think that was her first one she talks about it in the interview uh all the way through

to now and quite a few people have collected the whole thing i think there are well over 30 pieces nearly 40 maybe that you can put together, should you wish. But anyway, she also slightly knows them, so that's fun too, isn't it? Well, let's hear her. So she began by telling us about the very special range that she's designed for the King's coronation. Well, we started with a spongeware design that was working with my ex, Matthew Rice. We still design together quite a bit. And for me, spongeongebob's the best. But then he did a lovely sort of narrative mug

with sort of scenes from the king's life, his palaces, his dogs, his garden, that kind of thing. And then there's a very, my favourite probably, actually, is the one that harks back to that lovely mid-century stuff that Guyatt and Reveillus did at Wedgwood. So it's horizontal stripes in deep colours and it says three cheers for King Charles. Now I'm in particular thinking of the half pint mug. Yeah.

Yeah, so which one? We're big on half pint mugs. Which of those designs you've just described would I be finding on a half pint mug? You can get all of those. All of those? Because half pint mugs are really basically where it's at. But the Three Cheers one, you can get a small mug for a nice little cup of mint tea

or something like that. Or if you've got a big party, I recommend small mugs because otherwise the teapot's empty all the time. And then there's a lovely pint mug for a sort of perfect pens on your desk or the man in your life. Or just a very thirsty day. Yes. for a sort of perfect pens on your desk or the man in your life. Or just a very thirsty day, yes.

Do you have to ask the permission of the member of the royal family who you are designing something around? Do you know, it never crossed my mind. I did know that if I wanted, what I found out a long time ago, actually, because I did my first commemorative piece in 1986, just a couple of years after I started a couple of years after I started the business and what I established was that you have to ask the Lord Chancellor for permission to use the monarch's image it felt to me like suddenly I'd scooted back to the 50s or even it was still early in the 60s when you had to ask the Lord Chancellor he

had to read your play before it went on in the West End and I thought it's not like that anymore is it I won't do that kind of thing so So for that long ago wedding, I did Hearts and Anchors. And ever since, for every commemorative mug we've done, and we've done many, no baby or wedding or jubilee passes that we don't commemorate. I just go for it. So we, for the Queen's 60th anniversary, we wrote 60 Years a Queen. It was a huge success and apparently she didn't mind. So did you ever mind in that kind of artistic moment that you couldn't use the image of a person? No, I like words actually, probably more.

And portraits are quite constraining and dating, whereas the sort of sentiments of whether it's affection or humour or loyalty or whatever, they're much more sort of flex of whether it's affection or humour or loyalty or whatever they're much more sort of flexy and perennial I think. And which is your favourite design out of all of those you've done so far? I think 60 Years a Queen was a pretty good winner but I'm very very pleased with these. There's actually there's a fourth design a very simple one which just says God Save the King And sometimes simple's all you need, isn't it? And when you first started out, did you imagine that this was going to be

such a fruitful, artistic and commercial vein for you? Listen, when I started out, I knew nothing. But I was I was very enthusiastic. And I had always loved China, both my grannies in different ways, one quite sort of boho, the other quite posh, had kind of inculcated a lot of ideas about China. And my mum's mum, the more boho of the two, she kind of, she introduced me to the V&A and all London's museums when I was very young and said, you know, darling, this is, these are all here for you. And so I did know a lot, quite a lot about the sort of panoply of British making and British China and so I had seen and also there were loads at home I did a rough counter sort of round up the other day and I stopped at 20 and I wasn't even conscious the Victoria and

sort of all the Georges was get a bit muddled for the George V George VI Edward VIII you know all they just had sort of accumulated, whether it was one belonged to my great-aunt, one to most of them had been my mum's, I think, probably with toothbrushes in them and that kind of thing. But what I learnt subsequently as I kind of dug into the subject and started to look at them, it's always been a thing in Staffordshire. It's a huge, it's a really important earner for the county. Royal events mean jobs in Stoke-on-Trent.

And I don't think there's any need to make any bones about that. And do you actually know the royal family, Emma? Only through work, let's say. I had a very surprising call one day a long time ago in the office and someone shouted across the office, someone who says he's the Prince of Wales, I think it's Nipper messing around. I picked up the phone, said, Nipper? And it wasn't Nipper, it was the Prince of Wales. And we started talking about pottery then. He's a man of so many ideas and so many of them very, very good. He wanted someone to do something that felt like Weems pottery, which he likes very much.

And so we've sort of talked about pottery over the years. He's a terrific supporter. And I really admire the way he knows this country so well. And he comes to Stoke often. And he's toured our factory twice. And our quite robustly, fairly Republican workforce, they weren't going to give in readily. But he just totally charmed everybody.

And it had a magic feeling of the coronation is the ultimate version of us all being included in something with a some kind of perennial glamour and does he really know his stuff when he comes to see you in the factory do you get a sense that you're talking at kind of eye level with somebody who understands your business and what you do you're talking at eye level with someone who really really wants to be of service interestingly who knows the sort of problems of a city like stoke on trend and is hugely sympathetic who'll know all the nicest local buildings and so you get a sort of there's always a lot to talk about and it's fun and easy do you know if he's got a full

collection of your commemorative mugs and pieces i I don't know that he absolutely, I think his taste is not necessarily for Emma Bridgewater. How do you know that? Because we've talked about it. I mean, he likes more formal or more painterly. I think that spongewear isn't his bag. And funny enough, I really think that we are to a huge extent a girl's brand do you yeah i do about 90 but i think the the mugs are quite uh i mean forgive me if this is an insulting thing to say they're quite chunky aren't they they're not that just feels nice when you find little finger there's no there's no cooking your little finger with my mugs. That would be silly. Nevertheless, I think that the whole field of kitchen china,

or even posh china if you still have that, is quite a female... I mean, I think that's our business by and large. If I stand in the factory yard where I was yesterday, I mean, what I see, my best is three generations of women in the same family all shopping away like mad for each other and their friends but it is predominantly women and some long-suffering men with very long arms and who give me a bit of a beady look and say I've already extended the

kitchen twice and do you provide those chairs for the men to sit down in like they do in John Lewis outside the women's changing rooms. Yes, absolutely. And I got a really great one yesterday. It's a sweet farming couple. And their thing was he'd wanted to go to JCB. And she said, fine, as long as we can go to Emma Bridgewater. There you go. See, it's just down the road.

Lovely marital day out. One exactly. How do you feel about the changing relationships within the royal family? Because some of your commemorative work celebrates marriages that no longer obviously exist. I think you did make something for the wedding of Sarah Ferguson. Yeah, that was my first. Yeah, your first one. So when things like that change, what does it mean to somebody who's actually recognised that as a part of history in their work.

Then you've got that historical artefact. In a way, it makes it more interesting. But divorce happens, doesn't it? Well, it does. I've done it. My parents did it. When I went to school, I was probably the only child with divorced parents. And most of my children's parents are married several times. I mean, it's so commonplace now.

It makes it sort of even more relatable, doesn't it? Well, I think so, yeah. I mean, it's certainly that is, you know, not perhaps the largest element of shame that might be attached to that particular person within the royal family at the moment either. So, I mean, if we just talk honestly about Prince Andrew and his place in it,

is that slightly distasteful for you to have commemorated somebody? No, no. The marriage was a small royal milestone and it felt like a hopeful thing to do. The fact that it hasn't worked out for him is a pity. Actually, strangely, that looks like a very long and strong friendship. So perhaps it was right and perhaps it was kind of prefiguring a strong relationship.

I think one of your most descriptive mugs is for Harry and Meghan, isn't it? Which has got a beautiful sentiment on it. Can you tell our listeners what it is? I can remember well-suited, because I was desperate to get the word suit in. I can't remember what else I said. It says, Game changers, free spirits, hearts, well suited. That's very lyrical, isn't it? I love playing with words on pottery. And I felt, I mean, I feel a huge sense of loss about them. And I'm actually really

optimistic that it might all come right. Family's all scrap. My family, we're really good at it. I was one of eight siblings. There's always some action going on somewhere. But you've got to get over yourself every now and then. Go to the party together. So I hope she might just jump on a plane at the last minute. Do you? Oh, gosh, yes.

But I'm that kind of complete optimist and romantic. OK, yeah. Do you think she's made the right decision, though, Meghan and not coming, just because of the distraction? No, as I say, I think family all in, whatever you're feeling. I mean, in a way, the typical scene though, Megan, and not coming. But just because of the distraction. No, as I say, I think family all in. Whatever you're feeling. I mean, in a way the typical scene at a family party, there's always some politics

going on and that's part of the fun. I think stepping out of it's probably a mistake. But that's only because I like drama. And I love the eye of the storm. It's a good place to be. But tiny children, it's exhausting. I don't blame her for not wanting to wrangle them at the wedding wedding oops coronation it's a coronation emma it's definitely what she's doing yeah

is the commemorative piece specifically for the queen for camilla no not on her own no no it's actually it's all been about him but that that's OK. It's plenty of time. More mugs to come. And will you carry on with the commemorative mugs? Oh, good Lord, yes. Yeah. Absolutely. They're a fun thing to do.

And given that I don't see there being any sort of restrictions aesthetically, I just want to do something that strikes the right note, that makes people smile and feel good. I was very interested by the commercial aspect of your collections uh what is the fastest selling piece that you have made the queen the queen after she died the the sponge wear mug that we issued and matthew and i designed it before the funeral but there was absolutely no question of it going into production till after the funeral but then we sprang into action and being able to making in england is a beautiful thing making

you know short supply lines just makes such good sense and it was on sale two or three days later and that's exciting and it sold and sold and sold and sold there was a brilliant moment i was doing something else in the factory walked through the decorators and the factory manager said oh you know we're done we've done with the Queen Mugs, we've made a huge number. And I said, no, no, don't stop. Do not stop. And we sold something like 10 times as many as the team had first said.

I have a very, very strong conviction that we wear our loyalty in a rather secretive way. A lot of the business happens very, very, very close to a royal event. So you've got to have nerves of steel to make a million pounds worth of stock. And most people don't. But I really, really believe in, I think it's such a relief to find something that we all do together. And even if my children weren't completely disinterested, I'd be a bit shocked by them. Of course, they and their friends are not interested. But I think as you get older, you can see that continuity is great. And how does, this may sound like a terrible question

of a servant of the country to ask, but how do the sales of Charles's pieces compare to sales around his mother? Well, I think he's probably going to overtake her in the end. I mean, with this, it's following a more known pattern. No, we started selling these as soon as they were out. And it's been incredible the last few days. Just absolutely. It's very moving. We're such an ironic people, aren't we? We are steeped in irony. We like things that we really care about we like

to make jokes about and we we kind of like to distance ourselves from but you suddenly see the sort of bunting frenzy that's that's mounting i think there'll be you know there'll be a very nice togetherness feeling for a few days and it's so great to not be to not be scrapping about something and what do you think the Carolian age will bring, in a kind of long view, actually, to the country? Well, obviously, he's been spot on about environmental emergency. Wouldn't it be amazing if his reign was characterised by a really big sea change and a proper political focus?

And when I was saying it's very nice, one of the best things for me about a royal event by a really big sea change and a proper political focus. And when I was saying it's very nice, one of the best things for me about a royal event is the way we can come together briefly. What's needed to make any impact on the environmental challenge is for us to come together with lots of other nations. I really wanted him to go to COP. I thought that would have been absolutely fine and splendid. Break that, you know, that's the one bit of politics

that he should be absolutely rampaging around in. And do you think he's going to find it very frustrating? You know, he's the kind of guy who just phoned you up when he wanted to ask you about something. That will have to change now, won't it? And he said, you know, that he will very much honour the constitution within which a monarch has to live but as a person who actually believes in these things and has spent such a long time agitating from the sidelines is he going to find that too frustrating maybe not not actually managed to do it i just i mean if i think about it it makes i feel very very sort of hot and itchy at the thought of having to be silenced would be terrible but i have a feeling i mean such a bizarre idea that you wait 70 years for your career to start but maybe if that does happen an advantage is that you have time to

work a lot of stuff out of yourself he's done a huge amount he's worked incredibly hard and he's about to go through a very sort of solemn process isn isn't he? I mean, the ceremony is, I can't get sort of eerily excited about it. But there is a moment in the Abbey where you know that whatever your politics, this is a very, very, very long, continuous line, the continuity of it is powerful. Perhaps that helps to sort of create a different state of mind. We have lots of unrealistic expectations, don't't we and then we love kind of pointing out the mistakes i mean it's not just him we all love sanding off don't we yes and i think more than ever uh actually uh just you know we as normal people and punters we do expect quite a lot of comeback now don't we the age of deference and silence i think is it's funny isn't it i think we'd like to hear quite often and it's it's i'm not sure

quite who it is that's holding him to account well is it's anyone who disagrees yeah at any given point he will surprise us all uh final question do you have any glorious commemorative tat in your house i would like to confess to, I do have several of your mugs, but I also, my pride and joy, it was bought on the eBay and it was two cups commemorating the Queen's Diamond Jubilee from the batch where they spelt it wrong and they're commemorating the Diamond Jubilee. And I think I bought them for £32 each,

and I think they're now worth £28 each, so that's my stunning investment. But obviously I love them because they're daft. Do you have the same kind of thing anywhere? No, I don't think I do. What I absolutely wish I had was something I saw in the Museum of Brands, a fantastic place in Notting Hill, was a Jubilee Capri.

And there was a silver Capri for the Queen's silver Jubilee. What, a car? Yes. Well, because we made cars in this country. The Capri was the kind of, it was trying to be, you know, a very sort of whizzy American. Oh, it was a sexy old car, wasn't it? Oh, my God, well, I had one for a bit.

How to make friends in low places. But a Jubilee Capri, I wish we had. I wish we had, you know, lots of British cars. OK, so you've just still got the authentic George V tooth mug somewhere in the house. Yeah, slightly chipped. Will you be joining in the Oath of Allegiance during the coronation? Definitely not out loud. But somewhere deep within.

I mean, I'm someone who queued to pay my respects after the Queen died. And that was, it was a great experience. It was absolutely marvellous. But I won't be standing saluting the telly. But I love the idea that we're all going to be shouting at the telly because it is obviously what we do isn't it just before the break you heard from Emma Bridgewater you're listening to a special off-air podcast looking ahead to the coronation they're all special but this one is a little bit extra special because it comes covered in coronation glitter and glitz a little bit like

the tiny decorations that were added to the Marks and Spencer Colin the Caterp in coronation glitter and glitz, a little bit like the tiny decorations that were added to the Marks & Spencer Colin the Caterpillar coronation cake that we tried earlier in the week. We've been making a special effort, haven't we, to eat as much coronation cobblers as we can get our hands on. We've had very disappointing coronation biscuits, but they came in a nice tin. They're a bit dry.

And I don't know how we're going to celebrate the actual event. Well, I'm going to bring my flan, but you don't really want to taste my flan, do you? Jacob Rees-Mogg has come out anti-flan. I'm a little... Does that not put you off? Well, you know, I think if he tasted mine, it'd change his mind. Jacob, if you're listening, I'll give you Fee's address.

Now, our next guest is Julie Montague. If you're on the Instagram, you might know her rather better as the American Viscountess. Innocent American woman came over to Britain and found love with a man who, as it turned out, happened to be a Viscount. Here she is telling us about the moment she found out who it was she'd fallen for. When he paid for it with his credit card, I did say to him, why does your credit card say this count Hinchingbrook? And he did kind of look at me a little bit horrified, saying it's Viscount. I'd never even heard the word Viscount before. And then of course, I proceeded to say,

I don't understand why it would be Visc count. It's spelled exactly like discount. And did that make him, when you found out about who he was, did it make him more or less attractive? I was very naive about aristocracy. I'm going to be perfectly honest here. When I came over here, only thought the royal family existed. I did not know that there were other dukes, other earls, other viscounts. So it didn't make it more attractive because I didn't even know what the aristocracy was. I'd only been in this country for a year, had no idea that that whole world and about what goes on and about how people within those circles behave. So tell us what it's been like for you to navigate this quite bizarre system. It is a bizarre system. That's exactly right. And and but for me, I'm, I feel I'm rather fortunate because the family I married into is absolutely brilliant. You know, my father-in-law is still a hereditary peer in the House of Lords. He was one of the 90-something that were voted in. He's a crossbencher, Earl of Sandwich, loveliest in-laws I could have ever even asked for so i i didn't have that sort of snobbery that i know uh does still

exist in not you know and i and i mean a small percentage but it does still exist in in the aristocracy and i think it should be you never felt looked down upon by anybody you met in those circles it within my family, absolutely not. Within the circles, yes, there have been absolute, absolutely occasions where as soon as somebody hears your American accent within that circle, you can, you can just see sort of the, almost a sort of a look of, I don't know. They flinch, do they? They flinch.

Exactly. So there has been, I have been a receiver of snobbery in the past, but that's, you know, for the majority of the aristocracy and the friends that we have, they're incredible and they're hardworking people. Times have changed. You know, most of us have these historic houses that are open to the public and we are hands on. And you, there is a house in your family? Yes.

Where is it? It's in Dorset, West Dorset. And is it a castle or a... Well, the castle was lost in 1955, like many historic houses after the Second World War, in 1955. Like many historic houses after the Second World War, economically, it couldn't make it work. My husband's grandfather. So he sold, it's now a school, and bought a smaller house, which is a manor house connected to some land that had been still in the family. But we've had this award since 2006 from Country Life, the nation's finest manor house. And wow, that's...

So we are open to the public. It's a fine Elizabethan. Right. And that's a job. It is a job to maintain it. I mean, before I came here, I got my first manicure in probably like about three months, I would say. And they asked me what was on my nails. And I said, it's a mixture between green paint, red paint and black floor stain. Because I've just renovated nearly single handedly a room in the house, the archive room, the monument room from it. Stripping the floor. So, yes, I'm very.

You're hands on. OK, I'm getting the message. And you've also you kind of make a living out of being yourself. The American. What is your handle? Yeah. So you've also, you kind of make a living out of being yourself, the American, what is your handle? American Viscountess. Yeah. So you play with the whole idea of it.

Well, why not? Well, why not? And, you know, Bridgerton really helped me because I think a lot of people like me did not know how to pronounce it until whatever season it was in Bridgerton when the Viscount meets the Viscountess. Thank goodness for that. Yeah. Happily ever after or is it?

I can't remember. Well, for me it is. Yeah. Okay. But let's worry about itess. Thank goodness for that. Yeah. Happily ever after, or is it? I can't remember. Well, for me it is. Yeah, okay. But let's worry about... I hope for that, too. Yeah, okay. So your backstory does give you actually quite a unique insight

into how the Duchess of Sussex, for example, might have coped with the circumstances she found herself in. Now, what do you think about... Because you and I happened, I think, to have both been at their wedding. I certainly wasn't there as a guest, I was reporting. So were you. Okay, good, just making clear. But it was such a happy, positive day. And not that long ago. It's five years ago. Right. So we're coming up to 2018. Do you remember that?

years ago right so we're coming up to 2018 do you remember that beautiful view sky incredible weather oh the atmosphere was energized yes it was the the service the ceremony and her bringing in elements of her heritage her background her americanism the gospel choir all of that stuff it was sensational and i think everybody thought brilliant she is going this couple is going to help modernize the monarchy but just like that and here we are it's sad isn't it actually it is sad because i think they had a chance i'm not saying i don't understand what they've gone through but i think that they could have had this enormous chance, platform, opportunity to really do good, incredible work. They are doing good, incredible work as well, but even a bigger. So who do you think might have got it wrong? Her or them or both? I think in this type of situation, it's, you know, the truth has no sides. And I don't think any of us really know 100% the truth. So I always try to look at it from

both sides that there must have been hiccups and a little bit of mess ups on both sides. And it's whether or not they can come together and recognize that and reconcile that. It doesn't look likely, does it? It doesn't because, as you said, it's, you know, it went wrong. And we know that there hasn't been a reconciliation yet, at least with Meghan, because she is not coming to the coronation. And that is that's a huge sign. Well, it may also have come as a relief to the royal family, I suspect. I suspect you're right.

I think it has dominated headlines now since the Oprah interview back in 2021. So we're going on two years that they have dominated headlines. And I think this is a time of celebration. We've, you know, the country and the world has mourned the death of Her Late Majesty, the Queen, and now it's a time for celebration. But we know that the issues

that they have, Meghan and Harry, are with those members of the family, Prince Charles, Queen Consort Camilla, King Charles. King Charles, yeah. Well, it's still an easy mistake to make.

And Prince William and even, you know, Princess Kate. I think the difficulty for the king, I'm assuming here, is that Harry was critical of the queen because we now must learn to call her the Queen, I guess, Camilla. Currently, I think she's still the Queen Consort until the coronation, because he was critical of her. And that probably isn't very easy for him. And I'm not quite sure how anyone's going to get over that.

I think that is the million-dollar question. How do you get over something that has been broadcast to the world in a book that has sold more copies than any other nonfiction book? It's quite a statement, isn't it? And it's all there. And it's detail. It's right down to the detail of cumbersome. Have you read the book? I have read extracts of the book. Now, I didn't go a tire through,

but yes, I have it. Well, I've read it and there are some extraordinarily intimate family details in there that I cringed when I read them. And I'm not saying that Harry is wrong. I'm not even saying he's wrong necessarily to have written it. But it is an extraordinarily detailed account of some deeply personal family issues.

Yes. And you wonder about that, who sort of pushed him to do that. Was it the therapies he's in? Was it Penguin Random Health? Was it Megan? Was it Megan? Was it Megan? I think, again, I don't know if we'll ever find out that answer. No. We'll find it out.

But there is a theory, and I'm not saying I believe this for one moment, that Harry is completely in her thrall, and that she has made it very clear that they will live the kind of life she would like to live on her terms, and that some people consider him almost powerless to to resist or to do anything about it do you buy that idea i think megan is first of all she's older than harry and which is really only a bit she is a tiny bit yeah three of course three years yes she's had a lot of life experience compared to Harry. What I mean by that is, you know, she worked her way up the sort of acting ladder to land a huge role on Suits, which was enormously popular. She is outspoken.

She has her views on politics. She's a feminist. She's independent, financially, she's independent, financially securely independent, and did need, if you love, the royal family money. So I think she has a confidence in her because she's had to work very hard to get to this point. And do you think misogyny played a part in the way that some people treated her? I do believe that the British tabloid press has had a part to play with how she was treated. I do think that she found it very difficult to be here. And when people say, oh, she knew what she was getting into... What do you say about that? She did not.

I actually believe her on that because I have married into the aristocracy and I didn't know what I was getting into. Now granted, it's completely different. Let's be honest. The aristocracy and the royal family, but still it's that upper class. Well, you've mentioned it yourself. By some people,

not your family, but by some people you were treated with a certain amount of scorn and dismissed and you're white so can we talk about her allegations of racism based on your experience does she have a point there and it's very difficult for two white women to talk about this but but i've mentioned it so it's very difficult i think if she did experience that she wouldn't have brought it up That's a massive issue to stake a claim in if it wasn't true. So I do believe that, I mean, we can look at the British tabloid press and what they were printing. And we know that Harry put out a statement when they were dating and referenced those articles that were being printed about her so absolutely i yes i do believe that she was getting you know the horrible tweets as

well i mean racist tweets about mega pate tweets would you want to grow up like that no i mean i wouldn't and i wouldn't want to bring my children up in that environment. No. And I think I really hope that they go on to have a very happy and fulfilling life. I really do. And if that means they stay in California, then good luck to them. But I suppose some people fear that, that it may not end happily for them. I don't know. What do you think? I guess if I sort of sometimes I have to pick this apart for interviews, as we're doing now, and there was absolutely something was going on behind the scenes with we know what the British tabloid press, we know what the royal family but was it right to put that out in the public domain? I think for many of us, the issue of giving such

detail in the Oprah interview, in a six part Netflix documentary, in the best selling fiction book of all nonfiction book of all time, detail, you then have to ask yourself, how can you possibly reconcile now? How can that be? Well, I was going to say, as a reader, there are now things I can't unknow. It's sometimes just too much, isn't it? It's too much. And family is, for me, and I think for many people, family is so important.

And sometimes your anger can get the best of you and perhaps they're so angry that they have done the interviews the series will they look back on this in 10 years and think what the heck have we done why did we do that i don't know but i I think many people are assuming that. Can we talk a little bit about Camilla, the Queen Consort? Because people, I'm 58, sometimes I forget, I'm 58. Princess Diana was hugely significant in my adolescence. I remember the day her engagement to Charles was announced. We were just agog in the common room at school, just the craziest thing. Because we all thought, what is that?

She was three years older than me. What was she doing marrying this significantly older man? And like many people of my generation, I followed her story. And I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that she will be on the minds of many people of my age and older on the day of the coronation. What do you think? She'll be on the minds of many people across the pond as well.

Remember, she graced the cover of People magazine, which is our big magazine here at America, more times, even to this day, than anybody else. I think it's like 57 or something. She was obviously very loved over here, but incredibly loved in America. And I think it's the same emotion that many Americans will have as well, when they're watching this coronation, that Diana, she could have been there or I mean, I don't know if they were divorced and all that, but, you know, and you see Camilla and you can't help but think that from the panorama interviews, you can't help but think that go back to that interview and what Diana was saying. There were three people in this. Yeah.

I mean, of course, there are other people, Julie, who will just think, oh, come on, this is ancient history. How many of us have got an instant free personal life? It just it's just not possible. And let's bygones be bygones and let's get behind this couple and clearly make each other happy. And I agree with that in the sense that, you know, I have did quite a lot of research on Diana

and for another documentary I was working on. And we have to remember that when Diana and Charles married, it was at a time when the monarchy was still stuck. They hadn't evolved. And Charles had to marry the right person, not somebody who was divorced. That wasn't allowed. Somebody who came from blue blood,

came from the right aristocratic background and so a chance for him to marry camilla was not even on the table no so he was shown a path and and was told you have to take this path you cannot divert he's obviously made huge concessions thank goodness for his two sons who were able to marry kate middleton you know and and and megan an american cruisin divorcee and mixed race he made sure that that path that he had to take chosen by his father would be the same for his two sons that is julie mont, the American Viscountess. Can you imagine such a thing, V?

An American Viscountess. I feel, no, don't be naughty. I feel that you're dragging me into waters that I don't want to get involved in. So as we speak, we are just one sleep away from, is it Corrie Bob's? Corrie Bob's. Corrie Bob. Yes. and we're looking forward to being there we're looking forward to your company and we're very much looking forward to reliving it all again next week in some detail you won't be spared anything the toilet arrangements what we

got to eat uh how wet we got uh how grumpy people people. You won't miss a trick. Hang on. Hang on. What? Mainly how moved we've been by the sanctity of the ceremony. And that. And the shifting tectonic plates underneath this currently united kingdom. History doesn't come your way every day. It's coming our way on Saturday. Please do join us for it on Times

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