Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Cruder than Malcolm the Phallic Cactus (with Tom Bradby)

Episode Date: April 14, 2026

Everyone knows this podcast is sandwiched between smart thinking and spirituality… With that in mind, Jane and Fi discuss the purpose of pinking shears, Ouija boards, being overly sensitive on a Wednesday, Trump’s stupidity, and phallic cacti, obvs… Plus, broadcaster and novelist Tom Bradby discusses his new book 'Red Scorpion'. You can check out our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@OffAirWithJaneAndFiOur new playlist 'Coiled Spring' is up and running: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4tmoCpbp42ae7R1UY8ofzaOur most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producers: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Tuesday's edition of Offair. Thank you. Good morning. Thank you. Have you seen Malcolm the cactus? I have seen Malcolm the cactus. And Malcolm the cactus is going to start something. Would you like to read out the email, Jane? And then I'd like a full description of Malcolm's amazing stature. It's from Sandra. Thank you, Sandra.

Because in a world of pain, we need levity. Sadly, I was not able to contribute to rude veg a couple of months ago. that was a long-running topic, which in fairness brought us much joy. Let's just own it. But it just occurred to me that my cactus might be of interest. He is called Malcolm. Now, I've known a couple of men called Malcolm. It's a great Scottish name, isn't it? It is. Is there anything that they've got in common with Malcolm the cactus? Well, I'm not, in all fairness, able to say. But let's just be honest about it. Malcolm the cactus looks like a penis and a moderate to average set of testicles. Is that fair? It is very fair.

Yeah. Malcolm is standing proud. You're certainly that, yeah, although covered in what looks like a combination of prickle and fur. So not all that erotic. I mean, listen, there's a space and a place for everything. So there's so little that we can then say about Malcolm without it just descending into utter, utter farce. But my theory with Malcolm was that he'd been brushed up against by quite a lot of cameras. in search of prickles. I think so, yeah. And therefore he's caught all of their fur.

But yes, he does look like he needs a very good... We just needs a very good going over, doesn't he? So let's leave it. All right, Sandra, thank you. If you've got any pictures of cactus doing strange things, then we're the podcast for you. Oh, God, let's just go for it. Come on.

You've got a cactus that looks like a willie. Send it in. Send it in, send it in. We were talking about our journalistic qualifications before we entered the studio today because we've got somebody who's, watching this uva take shape. And we were trying to explain

the various different ways that we've come to this form of journalism and I fear that everything that we tried to do outside the studio has been ruined. By that. Okay, a little bit of smart about some prickly cacti. Can I just draw your attention

to another cock-up we made yesterday? This is from Susanna in Quebec. Welcome. I don't think we've had an email from Quebec before. Yes, we have. Have we? Yes, we have. I love your podcast, and I was so happy that you're back.

Yeah, we've had a lot of... I think number of emails just saying we missed you last week, so thank you. We don't take that for granted at all. I had to laugh out loud though when you, while reading out an email, were saying you wouldn't give away any further details about the part of the world the listener is living in. After reading the title, which was seeking life advice in San Francisco and ending with the sign-off, a faithful listener in California. I'm not sure how many more details you could have given. Right, Susanna. You want the exact street code? Are you up in Knob Hill or are you in Castro?

These are all districts, Jane, in San Francisco. Yeah, because I've read Tales of the City. Have you? Yes, because you've interviewed Armistead Mopan. Morpin, Mopan. But I used to absolutely love those books. They were sort of episodic. And then what happened?

Well, then I met him. Didn't get on brilliantly well. I still like his work. Right. Shall we move on? Yes. I mean, if I was just... do a podcast on people I've offended.

No, it would be too long. It would be too long. And also we just haven't got enough lawyers in the building. We probably have in this building. Not joining in with that. Still got a mortgage to pay. Did I miss a memo in brackets a message for your listener in her 30s?

I think it's okay to read out that title. It's just alert me if I then cock up with something else further down the line, please. I listened to Monday's episode about the California woman in her early 30s, feeling like she's been left behind by all her friends.

I feel you, I have been exactly where you are. And Clodonia, who doesn't ask to be anonymous, I think we're okay, says my first piece of advice is just a phase, enjoy it. That's what I used to tell myself and all my girlfriends whenever the panic crept in. I moved to the UK to study at 21, then packed up again and moved to Australia at 30. When everyone else was having a meltdown turning 30,

mine came at 26, because all of my friends back home were already married. Then after lockdown, I started making that joke we all make, the one where you're only half joking. Did I miss a memo? My Sydney friends were getting married, buying houses and having kids. I was 33 single in a shared house trying to land a job that would keep me in the country, let alone think about property. My second piece of advice, find your people, specifically the ones in the same season of life as you. When my Sydney friends moved into family mode, I had to actively go and find a new crew, single women, living independently, absolutely killing it at work,

dealing with the same dating stuff I was. And that shift changed everything. And the last thing, when I wasn't happy with my own life, I wasn't someone I'd want to date either. So I built my life first, and then somehow, with a bit of luck, I found myself a genuinely great man. Don't rely on a partner to make you happy.

But I hear you on the loneliness, I really do, sending you all so much love from Sydney. Well, I think that's a belter of an email, Jane, and I think all of those pieces of advice are spot on. And particularly the second one, I just couldn't agree with you more. You can carry on, you know, loving your friends who are in their family mode

and having babies and getting married and buying houses. You will always love them, but don't maybe just don't see as much of them for a while. You know, they will... Leave it for 10 or 15 years. No, they will understand. And just go and find your tribe. Yeah.

And always in life, you know, if you find your tribe, you're just a... you're just more okay, aren't you? It's hard doing these things on your own. So I think that's absolutely brilliant, Clodonia, and I'm glad that things worked out for you, and thank you for bothering to send us an email. Was there an email about egg freezing?

Because I can't find out how I'm looking for it, because I do think this is so important. There you do that one. Here we go. This is Emma. I wanted to email in regard to your 32-year-old correspondent worrying about being behind in life. I feel like I'm in a similar boat. I'm 34. I'm in a new relationship,

and have begun consultations about egg freezing. My thinking is that it removes some pressure from dating. Now, I don't want to feel like I need to rush that decision of who I have a baby with. If I freeze 34-year-old eggs, they are still going to be there for me, even if I'm not ready to have a baby until I'm 40. For me, this removes some of the fear around female fertility, supposedly dropping off a cliff. There's the phrase that you will hear a lot of after 35.

and may buy me some more time to spend with the person I choose to be with before all our time is taken up by having a child, if I'm lucky. Emma does point out, and she's so right, it is important to note that success isn't guaranteed at all. It is ridiculously expensive, although some companies now offer discounts for employees, which is the case for me. So your correspondent should check.

And I'm discovering that the process can be quite invasive. It certainly can, and disruptive to your life, with a number of mental and physical side effects. I don't know whether you like Meefe. I remember when I was actually at Women's Hour. I remember my colleagues over the age of 30, I think on their 30th birthday, they would start getting targeted ads about egg freezing.

I mean, it's such a brutal business. And it is a business. It's a massive business. Yeah. And actually, I was living in America in my very early 30s, and I was single, and I started getting all of that marketing, because America was about 10 years ahead of us in terms of egg freezing, and also they just have different rules about what kind of medical procedures you can advertise.

And I started to be so, so heavily advertised at by egg freezing companies. And what did it do to you? Well, I remember saying my first ad on the subway, and I thought, okay, this is interesting, I'm going to look into it. So as soon as I looked into it and contacted one clinic, you know, 27,000, clinics contact me and actually I ended up making a documentary about it because it just seemed so bizarre and the rates you really do have to look into the success rates of egg freezing and you've got to hang on to that in the same part of your brain where you've deposited the insurance policy that

is I've frozen my eggs because the two things can be miles apart statistically and this is according to some pretty accurate research done by that big BBC thing over there. Egg freezing success in the UK varies significantly by age with overall live birth rates per thawed egg transfer estimated at roughly 18 to 20%. Okay, well that's... Yeah, and there's a lot more that can go wrong because that's when you've got two thawed egg transfer. So there are some other hurdles before you get there.

before you even get there. But I didn't go through with it and have my eggs frozen, but I do remember thinking, what an amazing opportunity, but, and the but for me, was just a bit too much. And also I was in my early 30s,

so I wasn't approaching a time in my life where I thought, if I don't freeze an egg now, I've actually not got any more eggs left to freeze. So it's very complicated. And also I just would put this in there, your 30-something men who you might be dating if you're heterosexual are not thinking the same huge things that you are. I think it's worth dropping that into conversation with people that you're dating.

And there's a terrible trope of men being scared by all of that stuff, Jane. But they've just got to get on board. And if you're with somebody who immediately leaves the bar, because you say, I've frozen my eggs because I want to start a family. If you want to start a family, let him leave the bar. He's not worth it. No, but it's, but, you know, there's a lot of stuff around this. We can't ignore the fact that it simply isn't fair.

It's no point pretending it could be, because unless something really dramatic happens, it won't be fair for a long, long time. The pressure on women is different, simple as that. But undoubtedly, the frontiers of parenting and conception are changing, and that's a really, really terrific thing. So just look into every single available option if it's going to help you with your panic.

because this is where it all started. You and I both completely understand the 30-something woman who's feeling a sense of rising panic. And that's a horrible thing. So, you know, you can do things about it, but hang on to your big brain while you're doing them.

And it's impossible because we all do it. The temptation to compare yourself to other people is utterly irresistible. Well, comparison is the thief of joy. It, thank you, it is. Which reminds me about, I don't know why it does. It's just my very inept way of dragging it into the conversation.

Donald Trump yesterday and that AI Jesus thing. I know. No, I know. But his excuse, I'm a doctor, no. Do you know who, what it brought to mind was my own self, not surprisingly. I think I was six or seven and I had a new school gym slip that I didn't like. I really didn't like it. I didn't want it.

I didn't want to wear it. So I got my mother's pinking. shears. Do you remember those things from the sewing box with the crinkle? Yeah. Never really knew what they were for. Me neither. I don't know what pinking is. Anyway, those. And I just cut a hole in the gym slip. And I went to my mom and I said, my gym slips got a hole in it. It wasn't very good because quite clearly I'd done it. I claimed the pinking shears had slipped. They hadn't. I had cut a hole. Now, I got into a lot of trouble. I think it was the naughtiest thing I did in my very early childhood. And I was as

inept and as stupid and as tongue-tied as that bloody idiot yesterday trying to pretend he thought he was a doctor in that image. It was pathetic. Genuinely pathetic. I did see one of the

I did see one of his supporters try and say that Donald Trump isn't a man who is overly familiar with the Christian story. Oh really? He's not. Okay. Econography.

Yes. If that's the right word. But he does like to play doctors. So it was understandable that he wouldn't have recognised the halo, the light shining behind him, the hands stretching out to the patient. It's all new to him, was it? Cross. Okay, and you just think, yeah, okay,

so basically you're just saying he's thick. Do you think you've won that argument there? Well, that is a good excuse. I mean, he's thick. I suppose that is one way of, yeah, you could dodge it, couldn't you? Well, yeah, but it's an attempt. It's not really a win, is it? Saying that the reason why he did that was because he's incredibly stupid.

I am glad that he put it out there, Jane, because the more of these things that he does, the more of his own support will fall away. And that is all we can hope for, Jane. Because we have no say in what happens to Donald Trump. We're not living in America, and an awful lot of people think, you know, what business is of yours and shut up about him.

But he's dragged us into something. He's dragged a lot of people in the world into something that they may not have wanted to be part of or not have felt that the solution is his way of doing things. So we feel that frustration, but actually it's only going to be people who did support him, moving away from him, that will end this situation. So pop them up there, Donald.

You pop them up there, love. Keep them coming. Keep them coming. It does make me laugh when some of his right-wing apologists are suddenly beginning to have doubts about him. Oh, God, really? Give me strength. Let's bring in Andrew quickly,

who says, greetings from Bondi Beach, where, of course, autumn is setting in. Good-day. Thank you. I wanted to shout out, he says. Shout out. I wanted to shite hate. Actually, did I tell you about a friend of mine

who she did some work a couple of weeks ago for some very posh people, and she did a very, very funny impersonation of them. Yes. She needed to get instructions about something that they wanted her to do. They were so posh. They just, they were so posh. They just couldn't. You need subtitles.

Yeah, no, she just had to keep saying. Sorry. I just want to get to watch. It went on like that for about two hours. Anyway, she carried on and did the job to the best of her ability. But we don't know. Anyway, sometimes. is, if you're very posh, it is just hard to speak, isn't it?

What are you doing here? And why are you listening to this? Anyway, let's go back to Bondi Beach. Yes, let's, Jane. I wanted to shout out the outstanding astronauts of Artemis, says our listener, Andrew, at a time where most of the sane world thinks America's led by an idiot, and that's the kindest word I can muster,

and we simply don't understand why Americans can't see what the rest of the world sees and get rid of him. I can't be alone in having him and his cronies taint my view of the whole nation. What a mess. But then there was Artemis. A shining light, a group of inspirational leaders, exhibitions of love, kindness and humanity, words carefully chosen to inspire the world. I loved every clip and they really made me think. They reminded me that there are millions and millions of good Americans and that America is a nation of technology and frontier chasing, that we should not let one man and his minions reflect a nation.

nation. Thank you, Andrew, for those powerful words. Yes, thank you. And can we welcome in Melanie from Chichester, who I think actually might be staying with some quite well-to-do friends. Good morning, ladies. I just wanted to let you know that even though you haven't left the country, maybe you have. No, we didn't. I've taken you to France this week on the ferry to Cannes. So many people are on the ferry to Cannes. Isn't that the really rough one? Yes, currently sitting in my friend's rather exquisite shadow drawing room eating my supper, fabulous weather listening to a podcast. Also about to start

series two of deadlock and Melanie says thank you for the reminder. Attached is the view from my window. Well I don't know how you can bear to leave because that looks absolutely exquisite. I think you've got a bit of a part air garden going on in front of you there. What's that? I don't really know. I just said it.

I think it's you know when you've got gravelly bits and mokey bits. And then look like that. And then you've got squares of thingies. Everybody knows. It's a very, very helpful description. I think we've certainly been transported by that.

Many thanks. Where's Alan Titchmarsh when he need it? But Melanie, I couldn't go there with the series two of Deadlock because it was so, so crude. And I don't remember the first series being crude at all. But the humour in it this time around is just too much for me. So we watched one episode and then we just had to say thank you very much and goodbye.

So I think maybe the writers have just gone a bit too far. Was it what, cruder than Malcolm the cactus? Yes. There was some pretty constant kind of gay sex humour that just, you just thought, I'm just not sure that anybody is

finding this funny and if it's meant to be a bit kind of utre or whatever the right word is, I'm not sure about that either. And the pastiche of the Australian outback inhabitant was just grotesque. So I'm very sorry, Melanie, for recommending it really.

And I wonder whether you've done any better with it. Maybe I just, it might have come along in one of my oversensitive Wednesdays. We're actually escape to the sun. Or at the moment, there's no escape to the sun. It's Jasmine Harmon's renovation in Spain. It's going well. Well, it does go well. It's not as much fun for me.

It's nowhere near as far. I don't want to watch somebody else's glass doors being put in. I want to see a couple, let's be honest, tottering gently towards late middle age, disagreeing about properties or just looking at loads of properties and then just having that drink of orange at the end and not buying anything. Yeah, on a cold windy beach.

Oh, really cold windy beach. With nobody else there. Terrible. That's the fun of it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, endless building work being done. And then, I mean, you know, the way they try and create Jeopardy and those shows is quite funny, isn't it? I don't look a bit of television or Jeopardy.

Yeah. I enjoy it. Go to an ad break just when they're on the cusp of deciding whether or not they're going to put an offer in. Well, last night, the big patio doors had been before the ad break number three, high, high jeopardy to keep you watching. This gives the impression, by the way, that when you get home, you just slump on your sofa, drooling and watching lifestyle shows on the telly.

And nothing could be a more accurate depiction of the way you spend your evenings. Badio doors have been put in the wrong way around. I know. They had to... And of course, you just knew that in the fourth part of the programme, they were going to turn them around. The situation would be rectified. They would never have been able to get into that.

It's not James Bond, is it? But nevertheless, it's clearly found an audience. You. It's so... I like Jasmine. She seems very nice. She's incredibly tall. I don't ever want to meet her in the flesh. We must never, ever have a photograph taken again with anybody tall. The Penny Lancaster. After Penny Lancaster.

That makes me laugh. It's made a lot of people now, unfortunately. Rebecca is a long-time listener and first-time emailer. A bit behind on the podcast, she says. Well, don't never apologise for that. This is just the last mention, I think, to Memorial Benches, because they have brought great joy, I think, to lots of people over the years. and we really love them as well. My favourite bench is in Jane's Hood on the river in East West Kensington

between the Dove and the Rutland Arms. Picture attached, but the inscription says, and I do love this. I've been sat on all my life. Why stop now? It is good. That is great. And it's in memory of a lady

whose first name was Audrey. She died back in 2005. And she says, Audrey was a resident of Hammersmith, from 1942, I think that is, to 2005. Rather poignant that, isn't it? I wonder what her story was. I mean, I don't know why that's moved me, particularly,

because all of these memorial benches are very touching. But I've been sat on all my life, why stop now? Audrey, I know you can't hear us, but somebody close to you might be able to. Actually, let's not ruin out. Not that far off. Well, in coming from the other side. Yeah, that somebody from the other side might know Audrey.

Okay, it's a long shock. Would you ever go to a science? Ooh, would I ever go to a science? I've never been to one. I've never had one of the, you know, normally like drunken teenagers decide they're going to have. Yeah. Ouija board, spend the bottle thing.

I've never done that. Have you? No. Right, well, I think this is a little bit of a cul-de-sat, isn't it? No, but sometimes the strangest people do, really believe in the voices from the other side. And I'm always, I mean, I haven't ever been to one myself and I don't really investigate that superstitious side of life apart from Bromley. But it does seem to offer quite a lot of solace. I think it's been made such a mockery of by

programs on Channel 5. Yeah, I think there was a real resurgence in, or I don't know whether it is a resurgence or whether it was an establishment of spiritualism after the First World War with so many desperate people trying to make contact with particularly sons who'd been lost in that. I mean, it just, you could understand why people were desperately seeking something, some kind of answer at that time. But it's never really left completely. I think you'd probably still attract a crowd

to a regional theatre in the middle of the week. Yes. To have an evening of that sort of thing. Yeah, maybe we should go. Maybe we should park our cynicism or whatever it is, fear at the door and go along and see. I mean, I am a bit cynical about it because I think if you go on stage and say,

I know, I can hear Mary. Yeah, no, I think it's absolutely bonkers. Does it mean anything? Well, yes, because almost all of us. But I'd like to be in the room with the people who are there because I don't think that everybody is going to be the type of person who you might think goes along to witness that. That's all I'm saying, Jane.

Rebecca, thank you for that story about the bench. Now, can we just say hello to Audrey? I think it must be a different Audrey. We've been inundated by Audrey's today but you did have exactly the same problem with ordering the book club book a town like Alice as many people had had because when you ordered the vintage

copy it was a tiny special edition book that arrived and Audrey is very handily given us a photograph where she has she's got her hand across the book and there's a packet of cigarettes beside it to show exactly how small it is but it was the packet of fags

that just really drew my attention because that so you never smoked did you had you one fag on the Isle of Man don't mention that fee please but I'm just intrigued I can't really cast myself back into my teen self

to work out whether or not the dull packaging and the huge smoking kills sign and the lack of branding and stuff would have affected my desire to smoke in any way. I don't think the statistics bear out the success of that change.

But it's still quite striking to see it. I don't see very many packs of eggs these days. Well, actually, if you go into what we used to call a tobacconist. A tobacconist, yes. They do have cigarettes, but aren't they covered, isn't they? They have to be shuttered. Yeah, they have to be shuttered.

And I have no idea how much a pack it costs, but I've about £14. pounds. 14. Yeah. It's astonishing. Yeah. We used to be able to put a pound in a vending machine in a pub when we were originally smoking and out popped, you know, your hilarious

camel cigarettes or whatever it was. Well, I've just noticed it's Tuesday, it's April the 14th, it's my late maternal grandmother's birthday today. Very many happy returns to... Well, to Mary Esther. Now, she's not with us because she smoked. Admittedly, she would have been 126

which is a great... She didn't make it. But she, I always remember the house of my maternal grandparents was just a fog of fag smoke. It just stank. Well, because my granddad worked for British American tobacco, so they got free fags. So you would literally, you'd have to fight your way down the hall

to the kitchen. And do you think that that was one of the reasons why you didn't properly start smoking? Because you just had an association of it being rather manky. Yeah, I think that, well, my grandfather certainly died of a long condition. and he had a terrible emphysema. And I do think if you hear that cough as a impressionable young child, by God, it's not attractive.

Yeah, my mum always said that she thought that the best way to stop kids from smoking would be to take a class round a lung cancer ward. Yeah, it wouldn't do you any harm. I mean, it probably would, but in a good way. Just see the actual reality of it. But it's just strange to see a packet of fags. It's something that's just completely kind of gone. from our daily lives now.

I think you're right. It's very stark, isn't it? Smoking kills. It is. Have a fact. But in other news, Audrey's had a lovely man. Can I say, Audrey? She's got a very nice emerald and diamond eternity ring there,

a wedding ring and an engagement ring. Ooh! Comfort reads, we are combining a list, and we're going to pop them all up by the end of the week. But thank you very much indeed to Lorna, who's in Liverpool. Everybody is. Maggie and Lynn and Christine

who's joining us from Western Australia and Rebecca as well we will compile that list Well there are some good choices there and some of them I haven't read So unfortunately you've given me a book today That I can't wait to read And I've just got a long list now stuff

Unfortunately you've just given me a book No it means I can't get to the comfort stuff Because I've got others in the way I've got a heaving great A teetering pile by my bed of stuff I need to have a look at I wouldn't read London Falling if you've just read something quite meaty. I'd pop a comfort read in between that and that.

Okay. Can I bring in another listener, Louise, who's in Liverpool? It's Louise from the Cunard building. And Louise, you know, you're much appreciated because I think of you often because I use that bin you sent me as my pen caddy at home. It's a Liverpool City Council small bin. obviously because I keep it on the side it's not a full-sized wheelie bin

even in my palatial home that would be awkward crack on on back holiday Monday Louise tells us she was strolling around waterstones can I say I think a lot of our listeners would have been strolling around waterstones

on bank holiday Monday and I hope you'll be thrilled that I came across the attached and couldn't help but laugh at the section it was in so we're in self-help our book is in self-help in Waterstones. You were sandwiched between smart thinking to the left, maybe a bit of a stretch,

she says, and spirituality to the right, which, let's face it, is just a euphemism for not being committed enough to join a proper cult. Thank you. Of course, as previously discussed, given Jane's very strong ties to the city of Liverpool, that apparently she claims stretches as far as Crosby, do let me know if you need to go back into Waterstones, and I will lug the books downstairs to local interest. Yes, I think Louise, you should, if you don't mind. You haven't got a lot on. Why don't you go back to Waterstones and move

us? Because we don't belong anywhere near smart thinking or spirituality, do we? And we're not self-help. But I don't want to be in Liverpool, if that's okay. What? No, I don't want to be on sale in Liverpool? No, I don't. Well, it's a funny, well, I... Okay. No, because you're from Crosby, and I'm

from Slough. I want to be on sale in Liverpool. I bet we're... Is there a Waterstones in Slavis? I doubt it. Looking it up now, sister. Oh God. Can we just do one quick one about team building days and then it's on to the guest, which is... And now we've got a good one today, so could you set him up, please? Well, Tom Bradby is a man with impeccable journalistic credentials. So he's been on nearly...

Very, very similar, darling. He's been on every single beat at ITN, including the Royal Beat. and he did the now very well-known interview when Harry and Megan were on a tour of South Africa where Megan, he asked Megan, how are you? And she said, well, I'm glad that you've asked because nobody else has bothered. And it was really the start of the kind of the opening of that can.

Golly, and what a can. What a can. It turned out to be. Well, they're on tour, aren't they? Yes, they're off to Australia. But I don't really understand how they could be on tour when they're not. It's like you and I could, well, I suppose we could go on tour. Well, we have been on tour.

Yes, we have. Okay, let's just start this sentence again. What status does this tour have? Is it a visit? Megan was invited, God is rare when you ask me a question about Royals. Megan was invited, wasn't she, by one of Australia's most successful podcast hosts to be her guest at a live recording of her podcast somewhere in Australia. And I think Harry is doing some cheer.

already work while he's over there. But as to anything else, backing it up, I really don't know. I mean, half of the hall where that podcast is being recorded are going to be journalists and you will see the steam coming off the paper as they write down everything that Megan has said and then rush to file it and the tone of it will be sour, won't it? Oh, I think we know that. that. So you do wonder why they're going to do it. If Megan's listening and obviously we hope that why anyone can listen to this podcast, it'd be nice to know that we had a little Montecito group.

I think my advice would be maybe just stay home with those beautiful kids for a while. Oh, that just reminds me. Robert Hardman is bringing, she's been strangely silent. She's been like the sphinx. Is Robert Hardman coming on? Yes. Now he's a very, very, very, very, very, you know, he's a very, leading royal author, isn't he? He is, yeah, but he knows a lot about Prince Philip. Does he? It made it sound as though, Hello, Sailor.

Right, well, I don't know about that to be. But I last saw Robert, oddly, in the bookies, very close to my home. But in a different life, he is a leading royal author, and he's got a new book out about her late majesty, whose centenary is coming up on battle to the end of this sentence. I fact, it's a week today, Fee, that it would have been 100 years. Well, it's definitely in my diary.

Well, I tell you what, it's given an excuse for loads of royal authors to write another book. There's no excuse. They just don't need an excuse. They just keep coming. Can I just backtrack on my comment? I'm not telling a woman to stay home and shut up. No, no, we know that's not what you made. No, I'm saying for her own sake, you know, you've got a beautiful life that, you know, so many people would really, really love to have.

It looks amazing. You know, you're in the sunshine, you've got this incredible house, you know, your kids are healthy and happy, you've got your husband. It's kind of like, don't just, you know what's out there for you. You know, you're not going to change these people's minds. They're going to keep coming at you all the time and it sells things for other people. Well, she shoves a few. Well, she's shoved her conserve all over the world, hasn't she? I don't understand her motivation.

Anyway, shall we leave the team building days because I feel that we're approaching a cadence now and it would be foolish to try and go back? So I'm going to keep Jackie's email for tomorrow. Do that because I'm interested in that. There are very few journalistic beats that Tom Bradby hasn't been on. For ITN, he's covered Ireland and Asia. He's been its political correspondent, UK editor,

and also tackled the royal paddock, asking that question of Megan, are you all right when she and Harry were on their first tour to Africa after the birth of their son? Probably more on that in a moment. But Tom's latest spy thriller takes the reader on a journey through the underworld of Colombia in Red Scorpion, the Drug Barons of South America,

are vying for your attention as the reader amongst the wilds of Wandsworth Common. A place where his heroine, Dr. Laura Strong, hails from, Earl's field, to be precise, and a place she ultimately hopes to return to in one piece, not least to make sure that her brother is taken care of. We meet her as she's struggling to look after him. He is an adult with special needs, as well as power through her job in A&E on an endless series of night shifts. Everything changes when she meets Raphael, a widower who turns up in that A&E department with his young son one night.

He appears to be a South American coffee magnate whose offer of a job could change. her life. Dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. The plot thickens. Hello, Tom. Hello, it's lovely to be back with you. It's very nice to see you. Tell us a bit more about your heroine, Dr. Laura, because we meet her when she's exhausted by her night shifts. Did you play on your own experience of insomnia in order to convey to the reader the true horror of only three hours sleep before a big day? I did a bit, and two of my best friends, certainly for my school days run intensive care units. I always say there's nothing to me, but like they do.

And I sort of spend a lot of time talking to them about the sort of stresses and strains of their job. So I wanted to create someone who's under incredible pressure at work and is a great doctor, but is also under incredible pressure at home. Her parents have died. She's got much loved disabled younger brother. She has to care for when she's really, really struggling financially in every other way to keep herself afloat.

And I think not sleeping does put, you under, I mean, many people listening to this will feel all too familiar. But when you don't sleep, things do get out of perspective quite quickly. It is just harder and harder to keep yourself on a level. So she gets this offer and it seems to be the answer to all her problems. And of course, it's more complicated than that because he turns out to be the reluctant air to South America's biggest drugs, cartel. Yes.

So there's something of the sopranos going down. There's something of the Godfather going down. I mean, it's this idea of kind of an evil person who's actually managed to achieve a lifestyle that we also dream of too. The riches and the beautiful houses and all of that spread around the world. But underneath it is just nastiness, isn't it?

Nastiness. Yes, the kind of original idea of that side of it came. I've got a very good friend from university, a guy called Jerry McDermott, who has surely what must be one of the most dangerous jobs in journalism. He runs an organisation called insight crime which investigates organized crime in Latin America and he lives in Medellin. And it's a very, very difficult job.

He's brilliant at it. And the idea came out of conversations with him really. And he talks about this group called the Invisibles, which are the new generation of cartel bosses, who've come a long way from Pablo Escobar and they hide their illicit activities behind multiple layers of legitimate businesses. Because of course, as they've got richer, they've bought into many legitimate businesses. And I went abroad to be educated. And that's what I was really interested,

the idea of the sort of next generation educated in England, went to Oxford, just to all intents and purposes, completely legitimate, and is very reluctant, but gets dragged inexorably back. Into something that is absolutely without morals. Horific, yeah.

And, you know, he had a very traumatic incident as a child, which, you know, I hope everyone will read it, so I won't spoil it, but that he just, wants to run as far away from it as he possibly can. But, you know, he's a former soldier. Was in the British Army. He was in the SAS.

He's the man who knows how to look after himself. So he's capable of, and when he goes to his sister's wedding and his father drops dead or, you know, was it an accident or was it murder, he finds himself literally trapped and trying to get out. And of course, as a soldier, he knows how to take command of something. But the only way he appears to be able to get out with the doctor beside him is to take command of his father's organization and that of course drags him in I thought it was very interesting to read the character of Laura's brother will you tell us a little bit about him

well I researched a lot as far as I could kind of people who are in Laura's situation who are caring for someone and of course invariably this sort of absolutely deep well of love in that circumstance but again many people listening may relate to the fact that it's also a lot of pressure and I think that was the sort of point I was interested in and Laura's parents are dead so the responsibility is hers and of course it's a joyful responsibility in lots of ways but you know she's struggling to keep afloat financially and of course as we all know the state doesn't give the kind of support to many people in these circumstances that people would like and people feel they need and I mean on you know my day job on News at 10 we're reporting these stories day in day out and that I

I guess is one of the things that drew me to it. Do you travel to the places that you're writing about? Have you been to both Medellin and Earlsfield? I used to live in Earlsfield. That walk up to the common was a very familiar one when our kids were small. Yes, I have been to Elstfield. I have also been to Medellin and I went to stay with my friend Jerry and we had a very careful look around.

And that's obviously one of the joys of writing a novel. Claude and my wife has always been a very significant part of my writing, just kind of my partner, and we in life as, in work as well as in life, and we discuss everything, character development, story development, and so it's a brilliant thing to go and do together. The joy, I would imagine, one of the joys of being a writer, is that you can choose the ending to your story, and you can choose redemption, you can choose to take the reader on a very dark journey and then make it all good at the end. And of course, in your day job at the moment, that's exactly what you can't do. We can't do it either,

and the viewer at home can't do that with the news. And I wonder where your head is in terms of being a journalist with everything that's going on in the world around us now. Well, in one sense, people who are watching or listening or listening to this do have the opportunity to switch it off. And that's something we all don't. Don't switch off. Yeah, don't switch off.

Just don't do that now. Well, part of the thing is I understand that desire sometimes. and I find it that I do, you know, and my mental health very, you know, as you know, and we've discussed on your podcast previously, I sort of had a fairly public breakdown and went through the recovery process and got myself straightened out by Britain's scariest psychiatrist and have been basically very well since. But, you know, occasionally I do feel I have to kind of battle off a bit of, not a depression exactly, but it's kind of, it's easy to get a bit low about it sometimes.

And I think that that has probably most to do with the fact that I've been with IT. I met the ITN, new ITN trainees not very long ago. And they're honestly charming, brilliant, bright. And I said, when I walked in, you know, this reminds me that when I walked in here as a trainee 36 years ago. And for a moment, they looked at me like I was clinically insane before they just recovered themselves. And like, oh, great, yes, gosh, still here after 36 years, you know, a lot of it. But I've been there a long time and you'll remember this. Like in the first part of our careers, didn't you feel like, yeah, there were some terrible

things happening in the world, but the world was basically going in a good direction. The iron curtain fell, the Berlin Wall came down, Nelson Mandela got released. You felt like the world was going in a good direction. And now it's a bit hard to feel that. I feel like democracy's under threat, people are trying to undermine it. And so we all have to be vigilant. So what I always say to people is like, please don't switch off. because it really, really matters and we need you to be engaged.

And, you know, we're doing our best. I'm sure a lot of people are annoyed very often at the way we all do our jobs. But we're doing our best to try and give you good information. And when you look to America at what happens when people don't have reliable information, you know, you can see what happens. Yeah. And what do you think about our ability to hand down to the next generation, the simple notion that balance news counts?

because actually the program that you do, anchoring news at 10, the show that we do here and many of the other programs that Jane and I have both worked on, you can completely understand why the younger generation won't want that. They're long-form programs. They attempt to display news in hopefully a balanced way. The way that the younger generation is getting its news on TikTok and on social media, fast, furious, tiny, short, opinionated.

Those are two very, very, very, different ways of dealing with the same material. That's true, although some of, I mean, your podcast, I don't know what the age profile would be, but I would imagine you've probably got quite a lot of young listeners. And I noticed with a lot of the very long-form podcasts and a lot of the long-form programs on YouTube, you do get quite significant numbers of younger viewers. And of course, like every news organisation, we're putting a lot of our stuff up on YouTube now. And sometimes it's quite surprising the number of young viewers we have.

So I think young people want good information, and I just think we've all got to continue. You know, none of us are perfect. We don't always get everything right, and we should be the first to acknowledge that. I certainly would be. But hopefully we're doing our best. And, you know, I think younger people do want good information, and it's really, really important that they get it. I mean, I just, I don't know how often you go to America, but I just find it absolutely startling when I'm there. It's like you switch on Fox News and then CNN.

I mean, it's just different universes. They're not even vaguely talking about the same facts. And I find that terrifying. Would you choose news again if you were starting out in 2026? Yeah. Would you? Yeah. I'm kind of addicted to knowing about what's going on in the world.

I mean, I do try to switch off from time to time, but I'm not especially good at it. You know, I don't know about how you find it, but like it's always there. It's always on your phone. And I just have to really have to be quite disciplined. I said, like, put your phone down, mate. put it over there, go and see in the garden in the sunshine, and think about nothing for a while. And it's hard to think about nothing. You know, it's hard.

I mean, I have always carried lots of stories as we were talking about at the start in my head, so they're always swirling around. But even when one isn't, it's tempting to pick up your phone and go on X or whatever, you know, and check something out. What's the latest? Who said what? What's the latest crazy thing that's happened? And you just do have to, I find I have to be very disciplined, switch it off. But no, I wouldn't change anything. I've loved my career. It's been the greatest privilege ever.

And I still love it. I still go in there and I'm doing news at 10, 11 years. And I just love it, you know, as the 10 o'clock approaches and you're thinking about how you're going to frame the news of that day, try and make sense of it to people. I mean, sometimes, you know, even the last 24, 36 hours, you know, Trump posts him. as Jesus Christ and then insults the Pope and then takes the post down. I know, you do have to pinch yourself, don't you? You do. You do. Am I dreaming this?

Yeah. It is our reality. Tweeting half the night and you're just like, well, how am I going to make sense of that? And you know, on the war in Iran, you know, sometimes totally different contradictory things are said in the same day and you've got to try and make sense of that. But that's an interesting challenge and I still love it. We know you for your many roles at ITN, but particularly being a very, Royal Correspondent for a while because you seem to be very, very much in that camp.

Can you say much about your relationship with the Royals now? Did it cease when you stop being Royal Correspondent? What I've sort of discovered on this subject is that very, very boringly, and I feel like such a killjoy saying it, but I've worked out that the only way I can get through life without being sort of quoted and creating headlines, just take a vow of silence about it. And it's very boring and I understand why I always get asked about it.

But I sort of feel like if I stick to my vow of silence for life, eventually, you know, it will go away as a question. And I've tried every other version of it. I've tried like, you know, and as a journalist, you always want to engage. I know where you're going away. Well, I know why you ask and I'm a journalist and I always feel bad about it. But it just derails everything if I go on the record about it. And it derails whatever I'm trying to talk about and it overshadows it and it creates headlines and it causes problems for me and I don't think it helps them. No, I completely understand that.

Allow me just one more question. You can just choose to completely not answer it and Jane will pick up and we'll talk about something else. But I did wonder, so when you asked Megan that question, it was such a good journalistic question to ask somebody. They were on tour. They were in Africa. She had had a baby. She was out there trying to do those two things. And you said, are you okay?

and she basically said, I'm really glad that somebody asked me that because I'm just not sure I am. In that moment, you couldn't possibly have foreseen where we are now in terms of how many, many people view Megan. But what did you think when she answered you so honestly? I mean, again, it's sort of one of those things that even if you just say word for word, what you've said before, it'll create a headline.

But I mean, I think I've been on the record before as saying, I don't, you know, would I have asked the question, that way if I hadn't had my own mental health issues and that's the sort of territory I thought we would be in with the answer. So like I wasn't particularly surprised by the answer but I was very careful about, I think if you know if if that's what you anticipate maybe the issue you don't want to go in with kind of clod feet saying just asking a question. You know I was I was I guess I was trying to ask an open question. Some people thought it was a good question. Something to criticize me for it but I think sometimes

if you really want to get someone to talk you have to ask an open question rather than a closed question. That was great question. That was my sort of thinking behind it I think. Would you ever be tempted to slightly kind of disguise a character within one of your novels

but be able to tell us a little bit more about your time when keep going, Fee, she's going to get that. Fee, can I say that is the best way of reframing this subject I've ever in every I'm a trier, Tom. I think the answer to that would be no. No. I'm really concerned and maybe you can help me, Tom, that when Donald Trump goes, because he won't be there forever, I'm horrified to admit, I think I'm going to miss him.

And I worry about that. And I said to the earlier, we haven't heard from Donald Trump today. And there's a part of me that I want to hear from him. I want him to do something offensive, say something idiotic, post something despicable. What does that say about me and what does that say about us and the future of news? I'll tell you what, exactly. I mean, in a way, it's a sort of, it's kind of both a fun and a serious question, isn't it? I mean, like, I was just reading a copy of today's times again outside the studio here. And of course, it's full of his tweeting at 238 and 254 in the morning. Which is, by the way, should be really concerning.

Yeah, and at 4 in the morning and to go back to the early bit of the conversation, I'm sort of acutely familiar with what happens to you when you're not sleeping and how things change. pretty so I think we got every reason to be sort of very worried about that and I kind of know what you mean because every day he does something you know picking a fight with the Pope as I said posting a picture of himself as depicting himself as Jesus I mean these are these are things you just could never have imagined an American president before now they're happening daily hourly sometimes minutely and when I'm doing the run-up to news at 10 you know it's sort of between 3 p.m. and 5 p.m. quite often

that's when Donald Trump is giving a press conference or of speech and so we're listening to it and i mean the weave is getting pretty weaveful that's a phrase which it isn't you know sometimes he's contradicting in one paragraph what he said in the last paragraph and all the rest of it but the serious bit of your question which i think is kind of an interesting thing is when i started doing news at 10 11 years ago in the days when you still went and maybe checked out some responses on twitter i found that you know i was doing it in a different style and some people liked it and some people didn't and there was quite a lot of all caps angry, you know, why can't you just read the news?

Exclamation, exclamation, mark. And I thought, well, fine. Fair enough. You don't like it. That's absolutely fun. But then about eight months later, I realized that some of the same people were still writing the same stuff every day. And I'm like, why are you still watching?

And then I finally realized, well, gets they're angry. And anger is a very stimulating emotion. It makes you feel, you know, if you're, if you, maybe your life isn't, I don't want to say boring, but like, it's not full of. a lot of being angry in that sense of kind of moral rush you get of, well, I'm better than him. I know what he's doing is wrong and I'm connecting up with other people who agree with me. I mean, that's very stimulating, I think. Does the ratings go up when it's a big Trump day?

If you're doing the news at 10 and Trump's done some. No? No. I mean, the ratings have always been dominated most by what program is on before. You have a big audience before you tend to have a bigger audience, smaller, smaller. I mean, and logic beyond that, I've spent 11 years. is trying to find a logic beyond that and I'm really got there. I think we just try to do the best program we can and not be too worried about.

And those figures of Amar Rajan comes into mind, somebody who's got to the very top of BBC News and Current Affairs, but has decided that in a way, and I'm not getting at him here, that it's not quite enough that he wants to be able to do his own thing, perhaps express himself more freely, because to be fair to people at the BBC, they're not allowed to. I mean, you can be a little, as you know, you have a slightly different, way of doing the bulletin not on ITN, don't you?

That, as you say, not everybody likes. Are you less frustrated than some BBC. Yeah, I think I have a little more elbow room to maybe, I don't think, have opinions, but certainly to sort of allow a bit more personality show. I have a bit more kind of, I would call it human reaction. And if you don't like that, you don't watch. I mean, probably you still are watching and shouting at me. But, you know, probably you're not watching.

And I think ITV have always been very good to me. I still really love the job and I love working there. And the last five or six, seven years, I've really sort of tried to concentrate. I've got this TV drama of my novel Secret Service coming out on Monday the 27th of April, which is like a big thing for me. It's like a five-part drama. I spent a long time working on. And so I've tried to sort of turn my writing into a kind of really more logical career

alongside my broadcasting where I sort of write a novel and then turn each one of my novels into a film or a TV drama. And that's getting very, very full. So I don't really want or have time to sort of think about anything other than keeping both those horses going. And I totally understand why Amel would do what he's doing. And I think he may not be the last. And he hasn't been the first. You know, Emily and John Soapel and people went out the door.

So did we. Well, so did you, yeah. I think. And Tom was going to get around to that. Yeah. Well, you're the first, really? Oh, yeah. Well, not quite.

Not quite. I don't think we were. You were the first big departure of the new. No, we went just after Emily, made this and John Soaple had gone but it's kind of you, it's kind of you to even think about Tom. Yeah, freedom was that what it's about? Because you...

Yes, I mean, I think we felt that the horizon here was more exciting for us than the horizon at the BBC. I never would speak for my colleague here and she's thrown me quite a stern look so I'm going to return to the book Tom and ask you a final question about that.

A lot of your books are standalone, aren't they? and they span all kinds of different places and points in history actually. And I did wonder, I don't want to give away the ending here at all, but let's just say that Dr. Laura is a stayer. And I wondered whether there is a bit of a future for her in your imagination. I don't know. The TV drama that was mentioning this character, Kate Henson,

he's played by Gemma Rattan and the TV show, which sometimes you do a TV drama or a film and you've got no idea how it's going to turn out. And I just so love the way that's turned out and she's so fantastic in it and there are three books. So I'm kind of obviously very hopeful that's gonna go on. Laura Strong, I also really love her as a character. I think she's a great, I really did love writing her.

I decided that I would try to move that to film. So I saw the film rights and I actually just delivered the first version of the film version of the script and it would be a much bigger, it would have to be a sort of Hollywood film because it's a $50 million film. So we did a deal with a Hollywood company and so we're sort of on that road.

And I think, As I get on that road, and I think part of their thinking is, is there a franchise here? So I think it's something I'm going to have to devote some time. I'm writing another book now as well, just to give myself plenty to be doing. So I'm, but it's at the back of my mind to think about it. Right. We are really going to put Onesworth Common and Earlsfield on the map, Tom. I think that's fantastic.

Absolutely fantastic. You've always got to have Onesworth Common on the map. This comes in from Mahan who says, I've recently been reading Tom Bradby's novel, Secret Service, Double Agent and Triple Cross, loved them. So well written, held me from the first page. Well, I should warn you, and the first page in Red Scorpion is quite gory, actually, isn't it? I did read it and go, okay, hold on time.

Hold on tight. It's not that level of gore all the way through. No, that's all I'd say. That's true. Tom, it's been lovely to see you. Thank you very much indeed. It's always lovely to come in. coming in.

One of the highlights of this kind of thing. Thanks for inviting me. Thank you. Goodbye. Yes, thank you, Tom. Tom Bradby and his latest spy thriller, Red Scorpion, is out now. Oh, Fee, I love the way you said that. Right, so Red Scorpion, that's the name.

Does it feature insects? Because some people don't, they're a bit triggered. There aren't detailed descriptions of scorpions crawling up your inside leg in the middle of the night and doing heinous things. You're okay on that front. Just checking for Nervi. Nervy readers.

No, very good. Very good. So we're back tomorrow. That was me being sensitive. It's unusual, but welcome. Right. We're back tomorrow. Jane and Feet at Times.

Dot Radio. Any other suggestions for our lovely comfort reading this would be great. And any suggestions, are we going to go with short stories, Eve? I'm not looking at Jane for now, because she doesn't want short stories. I'm kind of into it because I have never really read a really good collection of short stories. Well, that's the problem. So I am open to having my mind changed. Yeah, I'm with you on that.

Let's do it. I'm going to bring in, Claire Keegan's got a selection of short stories. And I think Louise Kennedy as well, and you love trespass. Yes, yes, I like that. So she has a collection too. But that wasn't a book of short stories. No, but I think you'll like them. I mean, you buy all those bags of, you know, little mini crunchies, don't you?

Just think of it like that. You can either have old... Can we buy bags of mini crunches? You've never seen... I've never bought a bag. Yes, you do. You buy the posh ones from what we used to call St. Michael. Before presumably the church said, stop. So it's just like that though, isn't it?

You can either have the whole great big crunchy bar or you can have a little bag of nuggets. I'll tell you what my issue with short series is, if I like the characters, I feel aggrieved that I get to spend so little time with them. I can't see the point. Yeah, I understand you on that. I'm back to being, it's my sensitivity again, you see. Really you're just caring for all of us, aren't you? That's it. Finally, it's seen through the veneer of harshness.

Right. Goodbye. Bye. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times radio. The jeopardy is off the scale.

And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.