Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Deliveroo My Paperoo (with Arlene Phillips)

Episode Date: April 3, 2024

Fi and Jane M have been work-shopping collapsible colander merch. They also chat about Jane's kink of dating people with opposing political views and which actress has the best "old lady hair". Plus, Fi speaks to choreographer Dame Arlene Phillips about directing ‘With All Our Hearts - A Concert Celebrating Over 75 Years of the NHS’. You can purchase a ticket at https://lwtheatres.co.uk/whats-on/with-all-our-hearts/. Our next book club pick has been announced - A Dutiful Boy by Mohsin Zaidi. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi Assistant Producer: Hannah Quinn Times Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Yeah, that'd be a lesson to you, Fiona Glover, with your slovenly newspaper cuttings. Well, don't come at me with your slutty advice. I've got very confused about what day it was today. The bank holiday does mess with my head. Even though we were both here on Monday, I still find it was today. The bank holiday does mess with my head. Even though we were both here on Monday, I still find it very difficult. I was amazed that you were here on Monday.

I just came here for you. Did you? Yeah. Okay. So does everything get shoved back on doing the magazine when it's about holiday? So last week we did a magazine in three days instead of five.

Okay. And actually, we normally have the weekend, because we go to press on a Monday, we normally have the weekend to fiddle with things, but we basically did last week's magazine on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. So when you say you go to press on a Monday, that's when you...

That's when we send all the pages. So we send the cover on a Friday afternoon. Yeah. So... We're talking about the Saturday Times magazine. Saturday Times magazine. My full-time job yeah downstairs uh my official job um this just being my fun side hustle um so we send the cover on a Friday

afternoon which means that we have to know that the feature is okay as well so um in case you know the writer gets run over by a bus over the weekend or something, because the inside pages go on a Monday afternoon at four. But we can't have something on the cover if it's not inside, obviously. Obviously not. No, so the cover lines have to match what's actually going to be inside. Has it ever gone tits up? Apparently so, but not since I've been here. I'm happy to report.

That's all down to me, guys. Am I tempting fate by asking you that question um reportedly that there was an incident where something happened after the cover had gone um and you just can't get it back after the cover's gone i don't think so i don't think so um because i think because it's color it takes a long time to print these things. And actually, we go to press very late for a supplement. So the fact that we go to press on a Monday for a Saturday magazine is quite a short turnaround time. Lots of other supplements might take 10 days, possibly more.

I used to work somewhere that took two weeks to go to press. Which is, yeah, because it just doesn't feel very fresh by then. One of the things that's really good about going to press on a Monday, even though it means that sometimes you've got to look at things and fiddle with things over the weekend, is if there's a big story that you need to cover over the weekend

or that needs updating, you have time to do it. I've written features over a weekend that, you know, then get laid out on a Monday and are in the magazine by that next weekend. Well, I tell you what, I'm never going to trust other magazines, what's hot and what's not, if they've got a two-week lead time.

Wasabi kimchi may be over by the time they go to the post. Over, so over. Yeah. Yeah, last season. What happens in the future when it's just a fact, isn't it? We will not have magazines, we will not have newspapers delivered. Or if we do, there'll be ever some niche. Well, we are digital first, as a news organization so the strategy is that we are thinking more about our digital readers than we think about our print readers however unusually

for a newspaper we do still really have a very strong print sales as well which we're very fortunate about um to have that so it's an interesting thing because i think the magazine is where the point of difference is because things look different in print laid out than they do when you read them digitally um would you still have an online magazine that all went online on a saturday i don't know would you spread it out during the week essentially they'd just be long reads online. And there are lots of magazines that I only really read online. New York magazine, you know, which was one of my favourite magazines when I lived in New York, and I used to have the

physical copy. I still get it in the office, but about a month late. So I've already read it by then. But I do still read all their long in-depth features um but they obviously spread out how they put those things up online so I think the timing is different I don't know that the content is that different but the imagery is different and the way it's laid out and I think you read differently your eye the way that your eye falls in a newspaper and or a magazine is very different to the way you scroll definitely and and And I can hand on heart say, because I'm lucky enough to get The Times delivered now. You must live somewhere nice. I do, Jane.

I've never lived anywhere nice enough to get deliveries. Come round. Well, I get it for work purposes. So, you know, fired up through the auspices of Times Radio. Does a member of staff just bring it to you? They do, on a silver sofa. With a cup of tea. Yeah, wearing white gloves every morning at exactly the right time.

But it's such a beautiful thing, actually. I really, really enjoy the newspaper. And it's such an obvious thing to say, but I just love the fact that I'll start reading an article on page 16 and my eye is drawn to page 17. So I read stuff that I wouldn't normally read. And it just doesn't happen when you're reading online. But my two teenagers I mean one of them's you know practically a young adult by now they have no interest in picking up the

newspaper or the magazines so they're lying all around the house they're you know they're in every room we're not particularly tidy at Glover Towers but they just don't have that curiosity and I am sad for them because of that because because I'm absolutely with you. I think you do just read in a different way. And also, it's just that really lovely chunk of time that you allow yourself in a day where you think I'm going to sit down and read the paper, which doesn't carry with it the guilt

that I think my generation has about sitting down and scrolling through a phone. And so it's just very different. I feel really bad when i'm reading lots of news on my phone i feel really happy and worthwhile and good about myself when i'm reading news in a paper how daft is that i know i know exactly what you mean i sometimes think when i'm on the train and i'm endlessly scrolling i think people think i'm just watching cat videos because I'm actually reading the Times cover to cover everyone, who knows but I agree with you you feel a bit bad on the screen

not so much in the mornings because it is just very practical to read the paper on my phone on the train on the way in but it's interesting when I have the time so on a weekend I will sit down with the weekend papers and will read them properly and it's a joy as well as being

something i need to do for my job and actually i have to say if i had all the money in the world and i could just afford like someone to do it for me i would pay someone to bring me the papers in bed on a saturday and a sunday morning so i didn't have to get out of bed well i'm sure somebody would i mean i'm sure on you know one of those many, many apps. Yeah, one of those task rabbits. Yes. Give them a key. Or give them a tenner. G-t-e-r.

G-t-e-r. G-t-e-r. G-t-e-r. The Scandinavian service. G-t-e-r. So you could set one up, couldn't you, called Deliver My People? And see if it takes off. But it would be my dream. So I could just lie in bed and read them

before actually having to haul myself out of my pit. Yeah, it is a different experience. But I am getting a little bit fed up with my own slovenly attitude to the newspapers as well because they just lie around the house. They're just absolutely blooming everywhere. And I did think maybe I should just cancel them and just read on my phone,

but I'm not going to do that. Can I say a very quick hello to Karen? You sent a lovely email, Karen, and just thank you, actually, for taking the time to do that. It's always very nice indeed. You can send really, really shit critical ones if you want to, but maybe wait till next week. This one comes in from Jennifer, who says,

Dear Jane and Fi, tonight on Off Air, I was shocked to hear that one of your listeners who works with her husband in their business was advised that her life didn't need to be insured because her role was not vital enough. I presume the financial advisor is a man. To me, his advice is totally impractical and I would find another advisor ASAP.

My husband and I have worked together since 1992 and have had life and critical illness insurance in place for both our lives since we could afford it. Just as the lady who wrote in situation, my role in the business is very different to my husband's. I am the salesperson, the main administrator, and without me he'd be in a pickle and vice versa. Should one of us be ill or die, the income the insurance would pay out would cover basic living costs and hopefully reduce the stress at a catastrophic time in either of our lives. Very best wishes. So, Jenny, you know, I'm glad about that.

And it's good to hear that not everybody got the same, I think, just really shoddy, misogynistic, bad advice that our previous listener had been given. Because if she, and i was thinking about this actually when i was coming in on the tube um i think for for whichever partner it is who has very delineated tasks in the home to lose the other one is just absolutely terrifying so all of the stuff that would happen to that poor guy if his wife died where he genuinely couldn't do the dishes do the washing cope with the kids and all of that kind of stuff at an overwhelming time of grief it would be the best thing if he if he just knew

that somebody else could come and help him it is so wrong to diminish that role absolutely really really wrong. It's the stuff of life. It's the stuff that literally keeps you alive. But also what a git the financial advice was because you could have got two commissions. If you're going to look at somebody as invisible, you're not going to get their life insurance policy, are you? Absolutely not.

This is such a cheering email from Molly and I absolutely loved it. Molly, thank you. She was listening to Monday's episode and wanted to share something that she inherited from her brilliant grandma. Molly says, As I was opening her box of pearls, which she kindly left me, I spotted a wedge of papers in the bottom of the box.

On closer inspection, I noticed a card from her hairdresser with the name of a shampoo recommended to her, along with some perfectly cut out and organised newspaper photos of older ladies haircuts she liked which I presume she took with her to show the hairdresser mostly of Judi Dench well Judi Dench does have great hair officially the best old lady absolutely great old lady hair Molly says this was such a ray of sunshine during some very sad moments and it still makes me smile. Is it terrible to say I almost treasure

the newspaper cuttings more than the pearls? Nope, you're in very good company with that, as previously discussed. I always feel like laughing now when I see Dame Judy on TV. My grandma was a filing clerk. My younger brother always said she was a filing cabinet, which grandma found very funny. When I cleared her possessions,

this couldn't have been more apparent, says Molly. Everything was pristine and ordered and cared for. It has had such an impression on the way I look after my own things. Would that be a lesson to you, Fiona Glover, with your slovenly newspaper cuttings? Well, don't come at me with your slutty advice. I can say that because Godfrey Bloom said it once, didn't he? He called everyone sluts and everyone were absolutely ape-watsit about it.

But actually, it just is the term for slumly people, isn't it? Yeah, it's absolutely fine. I've got a book on my desk called Sluts. Yeah, it's not necessarily to do with sex. Before, everyone thinks I've been absolutely horrible. No, you know, I think we could both, by the sounds of it, do with jazzing up elements of our domestic environment. I'm quite tidy, but that's because I don't have anything in my flat.

You haven't got a toaster, you haven't got a colander. Oh, there's some colander emails which I'm going to come and do. You've got a tidy patio and absolutely nothing in your flat apart from your poor parents. It's a lot easier to keep clean that way, especially with my parents. Are they off to Canberra Sands? They're en route. I've had several updates from the road um they did all of the washing of the bedding and

the towels before they left i know i told them not to but they did i got a rundown of all the cleaning they'd done before they left left it ship shape and then there'll be the people who they've booked in to give me a new boiler are coming tomorrow with the keys that my parents have left with them they are available if anyone would like to hire them, my house elves. I think that's a great idea. I could make a lot of money out of them. Just borrow the pens.

My dad's just very handy and my mum will make you a beautiful Thai green curry while he's doing it all and then, you know, make you a lovely dinner at the end of it. Oh, send them round. They're a great team. Seriously, I would book that service for maybe two days a week.

Yeah, and they're in good company with it. I bet they are. Yeah. I bet they are. I bet they're very proud of you as well. They'd love to come round to yours. They'd have a lot of questions. They'd be absolutely horrified.

This one comes from Catherine Smith, and it's on exactly the same topic. When listening to your recent discussion about items inherited after a loved one's death, I felt compelled to write to you. When we were helping to clear up my wonderful and always incredibly organised godmother's home a few years ago. We were given some much-needed light relief

when we came across an old ice cream tub labelled Sticks for Sausages. Upon inspection, we found that many of those tiny wooden sticks that do indeed get used for sausages or cheese and pineapple chunks if you were a child in the 70s, we did all have a laugh

about her sheer level of organisation, but also the wording, which just seemed funny, because I think you'd really call them cocktail sticks. Of course we took them home in their box and still occasionally use them when the rare need arises. They'll last us for years as there's plenty in the box and we don't often eat anything on a cocktail stick. My godmother had many beautiful and useful things

which we enjoy using every day and remind us of her the cupboard where we keep all of her gorgeous provencal pottery actually still smells of her which sounds odd but we love it i open it and take a big sniff and it's very comforting oh katherine that's such a lovely story and it is just so true and you know actually i did take a picture of my dad's stapler, which I'll put up on the Instagram. Because it's just so... Everybody's got something like that from a loved one. It's a mundane thing, but it just means the world to you. And I genuinely think, you know, if the house ever burnt down

and I had time to think about what I was taking, I would go and get that. I definitely would go and get that. Actually, I'm just thinking, you know, with the build-up of newspapers around the house... Staple them all together. It's a terrible... Cut out the pictures of Judi Dench first.

Yes. Quick Colander email. One of many, I have to say. This one is from Sevda, who says, Hello, Vee and Jane, the best locum. I like that, locum Jane. Because it's not othering me like the other Jane. Just and Jane, the best locum. I like that, locum, Jane. Because it's not othering me like the other Jane, just locum, Jane.

Locum, Jane. I like it. Sevda thinks a collapsible colander would suit me best. It's true because they don't take up much space then. Also, a silicon collapsible colander would be brilliant merch, she thinks. She's not interested in a mug or an apron as merch for the show.

Hates themed mugs, by the way. She says, I assume a good few of us are cooking dinner or tea while listening and you can easily fit a collapsible colander in an envelope. She's thought of everything. She does have a colander that serves her needs very well, but would be tempted to buy a new one with off-air branding

in honour of Jane Fee and Jane. Yeah, Jane Fee and Jane. JFJ. JFJ. JFJ. It's got a good ring to it. I think the collapsible colander merch is a superb idea. I think the thing that Jane G and I would really like to avoid is doing that merch thing, you know,

where you're asking people to buy stuff that they actually just don't really need. So something that is genuinely really, really useful, I think would be completely up our street a collapsible colander that's also a jet washer maybe difficult to invent and hard to post well well jane you go home and do that as your homework is it it's funny that i never did that well in the practical subjects at school bring us back the prototype and we'll see what we can do. My CDT teachers would despair. Now listen, we've had some really thoughtful

and very, very delicious emails actually about America. It's a very easy word to say. I don't know why I've stumbled across it. And this one comes from Pam, who describes herself as being south of Boston. I don't know whether that's a euphemism or just

something I don't get, Pam. Dear Fee and guest host Jane, just to set the record straight, we Democrats do not look down on Republicans nor Conservatives. And most of us understand why Trump was elected in 2016. But what we can't abide nor understand is why they would elect the most unchristian, vile, narcissistic, hate-mongering, shit-stirring,

democracy-destroying, authoritarian-loving despot again. That's a great sentence. It is, isn't it? And I can hear your anger, Pam. I can hear it, I can hear it. And for your information, the MAGA idiots who stormed the US Capitol on January 6th were mostly white, male, educated, middle-class, middle-aged, small business owners.

They were policemen, doctors, lawyers, teachers with no ties to right-wing organisations. In other words, mostly regular folks just like many of my neighbours. They weren't the rural, poor, ignorant, toothless idiot shown on late night TV or as comic relief in stand-up sketches. But guess what?

They still believed and supported Trump and continue to do so. So I've already lost friends and some family members due to this maniac and will likely do so again after the 2024 election. I've chosen to remain on the correct side of history if it means cutting more ties to those who are in support of him. It's sad but true. When America sneezes, the world catches a cold. And that may be truer now than ever when you see what's happening in other elections around the globe. Hope we can all survive. That man opened the hell mouth, but I plan to be a demon hunter.

Well, Pam, keep in touch with us because this is going to be a very difficult year for you. And do you know the thing that I just can't ever understand, and actually it doesn't matter how many reasonable people I have this conversation with uh is um the female perspective on trump because i wouldn't want to stand next to him let alone put him in charge of legislation knowing what he would be thinking if he stood next to me and it just that's not a it's not a meeting of minds that one no no but i have

to say i am one of the few things i am excited about in the upcoming several months of election campaigns is um watching my friend stormy uh give evidence in a few weeks yes now how is she doing she's she's doing well i mean it's not like we chat on the phone every day. But, you know, last time I spoke to her, which was a little bit earlier this year, you know, she's under an incredible amount of pressure from his team to, you know, to drop out, not to give evidence. They were also putting a lot of pressure on her. There's another complicated sort of side There's another complicated sort of side case where she owes him money because a libel trial, a libel judgment was given against her in a separate trial about him. And his team have put her under tremendous amount of pressure on that case, which is obviously a form of intimidation about the criminal case over the hush money. case over the hush money. But as it stands, she's been briefed and prepared by the prosecution team.

And the trial starts on the 25th of this month. So we should be seeing her on the stand in early May, which is a phenomenal sequence of events. When you think about the fact that, you know, in 2017, she was being, you know, vilified. And now she's potentially the woman who could help put him in prison. Yeah, it is an incredible story. And there's something, I mean, I think we love her story, don't we? Because it's a modern morality tale. Yeah, it's David and Goliath. Yeah. And also, it's just like, if you've got a man who pays for sex

and demeans women in the process, then how fantastic for that woman to be able to stand up and say, I'm so much more, I am more than a transaction. Well, just to clarify, he never paid her for sex. No, but within the... He paid her to keep quiet about the one night that they had together. Okay, but would it be fair to say that we know Stormy Daniels in her professional context as...

As a stripper. As a woman who... And a porn actress. ...makes money from her body and... Yeah, yeah. I think it's slightly different to sex work, I mean, in terms of prostitution, because I think, you know, it is very...

She never was paid for sex. She was paid to never tell anyone that she had sex with the president. And is her home life secure? Has she got support and backup? Yes, yeah, she does have support and backup. But she, particularly since a year ago when Trump was indicted over the hush money, she has faced even more attacks online, but also physical attacks. You know, people trying to scale her, the walls of her property, you know, people threatening her child, you know, threatening her safety. I mean, what she has to put up with on a day-to-day basis in order to tell the truth is something you would just never want anyone to have to go through.

But, you know, she's very... She's really interesting about it because, you know, we do think it's a morality tale and something you couldn't script, but she also thinks that maybe she's the one person who is perfect for this job because she feels like she can't be shamed. You know, no-one can release naked pictures of her because she's done it can't be shamed you know no one can release naked pictures of her because she's done it all herself you know she's very upfront about who she

is and she is without shame and without apology for all of those things and you kind of need someone like that to face him down because it doesn't matter what he's going to try and bring up and pull up and what he's going to throw at her yeah she's incredibly strong and she can take it do you know on a slightly similar theme, different I know in its detail, I'm always so thrilled to see how well Monica Lewinsky's doing now. Absolutely. I mean, she

just, sometimes when you think about that poor poor young woman and everything that she went through and her dignity now in having got through all of that is quite something, isn't it? She's also possibly the funniest person on Twitter.

Is she? Oh, she's hilarious. Have you ever met her? No, I would love to have met her. I would love to interview her. I think she's phenomenal. Yeah, how she's turned it around and become the person that she is.

While never trash-talking, you know, any of the Clintons, she doesn't need to. But, yeah, there was a brilliant tweet that I think... I mean, it went so viral, I don't think we can even just call it viral, where someone said, what's the worst piece of advice you've ever been given? And her tweet said,

White House intern will look great on your CV. She's great. Can we just stay with america quickly um this is from stephanie in denver stephanie this is such a moving email um and i i read all of it from beginning to end twice we haven't got really time to read the whole thing out because it is quite in depth but um i want to read some highlights from it um stephanie says i'm-year-old Brit who moved to the US in 1996 for two years, it always is, with her fiance from Leeds. They're still here now and have lived in four different states and had four kids, one in each state.

Her last child is nearly done with high school. And Stephanie says it can't come soon enough. Fire drills are now very rare rare but active shooter drills occur monthly we get texts and phone calls to tell us they are in process so we get a regular reminder that this is american schooling and it's the norm there are armed security guards around their campus that blows my mind every time i see it parents can't get into school without swiping driving licenses even though the majority of school shooting incidents in this state are pupils with a grudge i'm literally counting down the days until he graduates says stephanie i'm not sure a british parent could understand this at all even after

the tragedy of dunblane where luckily changes were made thereafter stephanie says i passed two schools daily where there are memorial gardens for students killed by other students with firearms she also goes on to talk about how she experienced covid and covid restrictions um now just a bit background stephanie is in denver which is in colorado which is quite um libertarian uh it's got some very progressive attitudes about things like um, but definitely during COVID, it didn't have the same restrictions as, you know, as I had in New York. She says,

when sanctions were introduced to stop the spread of COVID, nothing like as strict as in the UK, there was also the talk that liquor stores and pot stores would be closed and there were instant queues around the block and people were up in arms. So the threat was almost immediately over. As the latest election campaign starts all over again, I know we need to leave, says Stephanie.

I can't have another election campaign with pickup trucks flying phalags as I drive around town and people becoming hateful about differing views. I regularly see bumper stickers claiming that Trump really won. The American election system is complicated and in my mind could have some updates but the lock her up chance from 2016 seems so ironic now. Yeah, absolutely. She goes on to say America has been good for us, don't get me wrong, but it has changed immensely from the 1990s

where people still held differing political beliefs but didn't voice it immediately in a conversation or put down any opposing views. We are lucky that we'll be able to spend time out of the USA this year and avoid a lot of this hatred. Yeah, I just this really spoke to me, Stephanie, and really highlights all the reasons all the things I don't miss about that country, and why I'm glad not to be there during this election cycle. But you know, it's a phenomenal country, the things I so miss, and it was very good to me. But it's a complicated country. And I think it's got itself in a bit of a pickle yeah

I think that's and I hope it recovers yeah yeah but I like that point as well just about um about the difference of opinions amongst neighbours because actually when we were growing up I know that my parents, and they weren't together for my entire childhood, but they had friends who had different political views and it just didn't matter. It didn't mean that you couldn't be friends with them. And we have got to quite a difficult place, haven't we?

Where I think we put liking somebody, we put the political leanings of a person into that pot of are we allowed to like them or dislike them and i don't know i don't know whether that's a good thing if there are extremist views i can understand it but uh i don't i don't know whether it's helpful to just discount the availability of friendship or a relationship have you ever dated anyone with very different politics to yourself oh good question uh yes in my younger days and you know sometimes when it's only when you say something out loud you realize something and i've just realized by saying all of that out loud i don't really know anybody've just realised by saying all of that out loud, I don't really know anybody with different political views of mine.

The older I've got, the more I've sought out my own political beliefs. What about you? Yes, I've dated plenty of people with different political views. To the extent that some of my friends think it might be a weird king. You do? Hey! Are you getting off on it? Oh, I don't know what it is. i think this needs to be unpacked with a

professional interesting um yeah in the uk and the us maybe it's just because i really like a ding dong and i do really like a ding dong i quite like you know thrashing it out um don't know what it is yeah i'm you know i'm going to convert very left do you like i do wonder if there is a little bit of that yeah a little bit of the proselytization um but often i sort of don't think that's going to happen i don't know what it is yeah i think i just need to sit with that one for a bit that's very interesting so our beautiful lovely listeners will have experiences that always help yeah genuinely on this podcast people have written in with stuff that has just slightly it's moved my bar it's just so brilliant i'm fascinated by people who have very difficult political opinions and are married to each other yeah

i see i don't know how that would work. I can't imagine raising a family with someone with very different political views to yourself because, you know, I think even basic things like whether you believe in private education or not and, you know, I think values are different. I think it doesn't particularly matter if you're not trying to raise another human. To be honest, I don't.

What do you think about the difference between generations? You know, if you had kids who turned out to have very, very different political views to yours? Well, lots of my friends have very different political views to their parents. Lots of my friends are a lot more liberal than their parents. I'm very fortunate in that I think I have very similar political views certainly to my mom not not always sure about dad but different certainly same values um we have tried to have a discussion around the dinner table about how everyone votes and some people in my family won't

talk about it because they say it's a secret ballot so um i don't know if we have all the same party politics but i think we have the same values. But yeah, I know how much my friends struggle with their parents having very different political views and opinions. Because I know a lot of people similarly who have developed very different political views to their parents and often it's a rebellion against your parents too. But I think what is fascinating is now seeing people whose children have very difficult political views.

Yeah. And that doesn't always, that seems to be very, it seems to be very complicated, actually, especially at the moment, because there are certain, you don't have to go too far to appear to be far more extreme than I think in previous generations. Yeah. So to have that within your household and be constantly trying to fight against that. And as a parent, you know, at some point you have to slightly rescind your power as your children become adults i think that is really complicated when they start thinking for themselves well when they can vote yeah oh good lord it's completely up to them um we have a

follow-up email yes from joanna uh who says i was thoroughly chuffed when you read out my email about not mentioning the fact that I studied at Cambridge. Brightened up my day. As for your follow-up about why I felt Cambridge had disadvantaged me socially, she'd like to fill in some details. One is that she's lived in Sweden for the last 30 years. I'm so jealous of this, Joanna. That is one of the places I'd like to live.

And the average Swede has no truck with elitist institutions, she says. But it's actually the British who respond most negatively, instantly categorising me as as a snob someone who needs to be taken down a peg or two the only time i got a definitively positive response she says was when a new at the time japanese boss saw my resume and said ah cambridge with a knowing smile since i'm female and don't generally wear a school uniform it was unusual for him to pay me any attention at all just saying says joanna casually um anyway she says i apologize for referring to jay more karens as the other jane i love her husky voice and witty observations thank you joanna that's kind today i googled her to put a face of the name and needless to say she didn't look anything like i expected surely you're a brunette irl jane

says joanna um yeah i mean i'm a natural brunette just quite like the bleach yeah i just want to be scandinavian joanna that's the thing you know very much i'm swedish on the inside can we just say that we welcome all listeners in Japan. Absolutely. Schoolgirl fashion is what she was saying. Yeah, we absolutely hear you, but I'm just broadening it out. Oh, she also says, Joanna says, would we like her to be our Scandinavian correspondent? Yes.

Ask me anything about life in Sweden, I'm here for you. Yes. I mean, honestly, I think that country is so well run on so many levels and with excellent cinnamon buns. Yeah, beautiful cinnamon buns. We'll think of some Swedish-specific questions and we'll chuck them back at you. Now, J. Mel Cairns will be reading to the class from a new book today. It is the autobiography of Michael Parkinson called Just Parky.

Not Just Parky, called Parky. And Jane is just going to find the correct place called Parkinson, called just Parky. Not just Parky, called Parky. Parky. And Jane is just going to find the correct place and she will bring you that reading after we've heard our big interview of the day. Now, Arlene Phillips is one of our leading choreographers. Guys and Dolls, Grease, The Wizard of Oz, The Sound of Music, Starlight Express.

The list is so impressive. We might know her because of her stint as a judge on Strictly Come Dancing 2 when she was replaced with the very much younger Alicia Dixon. There was so much outrage and suggestions of ageism that Arlene's case was mentioned in Parliament. But actually Strictly is a very small part of Arlene's work. She was the director of one of the all-time great dance troupes, Hot Gossip,

something that we talk about here. She's now in her 80s, but as busy as ever. And this month, she's directing a gala performance at the Adelphi Theatre in London to celebrate 75 years of the NHS. I began by asking her to explain exactly what's in the show. The concert itself is to help support the nhs charities together that's um an nhs umbrella charity for 231 charities up and down the country that help hospital patients hospital staff, anyone in need of either physical health support. They help whole communities, mental health support,

and very much have been working hard when it was throughout the pandemic to support the doctors and nurses who were broken by that. So it's a really important charity and not many people know about it i mean not just are we celebrating 75 years of our much needed nhs are much loved oh you know we are one of the fortunate countries to have that but also to help within these charities and actually help people understand what this charity is because most people don't understand so a concert that brings together incredible performers reading letters to the nhs and then songs that are appropriate and carry in some way the weight of the story. Is it permanently upbeat, Arlene, or have you made room as the director and choreographer of the whole show

to actually reflect some of the difficulties of the NHS? Because it's in a bit of a pickle at the moment, isn't it? Oh, it is. It is. And it needs help. at the moment, isn't it? Oh, it is. It is. And it needs help. And I'm hoping that this will bring a great understanding to what the wider NHS does.

And yes, it is an emotional journey. I hope not too emotional. And I've, well, it's a little thing that I've been working on with Matt Brindar, incredible music arranger, supervisor, is to take songs that people know and love and actually make people listen to the words. So I'll give you one little secret,

and that is there's a story that helps relate to Whitney Houston's I Want to Dance with Somebody. But instead of that fun get up and bop, you'll hear within it a heartbreaking story. Because in that song, when it's sung as a newly created ballad, there's so much heart pouring out in the lyrics. And there's also Oti Mabuse and Dr. Ranch, so much heart pouring out in the lyrics. And there's also Oti Mabuse and Dr. Ranch who are hosting.

There are so many marvellous people that have come together, absolutely just asked and they came performing on that night. You've done so many unbelievable shows as a choreographer. So that's everything from Guys and Dolls to Grease to Starlight Express, We Will Rock You. Over the course of that career, how much of the dance moves actually changed? Because we wouldn't really recognise a kind of, I don't know, a 1960s dance on stage

now. It wouldn't be the same way that we move in 2024, would it? No, but what I love to do is adapt. For instance, when Grease first came to London in its huge form, as in there was a massive ensemble, not just the main characters in Greece. Robert Stigwood brought the film into the show and it was huge and massive. And we did lots of jives and lots of Greece, almost like Greece, the musical, the musical film. musical, the musical film. But when I was invited after that had run for 25 years, there was a break and then there was a new production. I was asked by Nikolai Foster, the director, to choreograph the new version. And the new version was the original story of Grease. It was going right back to Chicago, 1958, to the high school where the characters you know and love from the film really existed.

And their love and passion for rockabilly, which was a pure 50 stars. So we've taken that. In many ways, it was like hip hop where kids went on the street and competed um so I've got rockabilly movement going back to the pure 50s. What do you think the modern youth of today Arlene would make of Hot Gossip the fantastic 1970s and 80s dance troupe that you founded and led. What the heck would they think of Hot Gossip?

You know, is it too much? I've always valued that all of the performers in Hot Gossip would stand up and be bold and brave about everything they did in that show. It's really funny because I'm constantly being asked to do snippets of hot gossip on TikTok. I bet you are. Only time would tell if I actually did that, what they would make of it. I mean, we are in a very, very different world now. We are very, we are, I think, kinder, nicer, caring.

And also we are aware that the freedom to be who you are is absolutely vital and that you bring very often some of yourself into the shows that I choreograph and sometimes direct and And I think it's really amazing how performers take on those challenges. Yeah. But they're always with care and understanding. I do often do shows which shows based on times where sexual freedom was completely accepted. But now you obviously, even when people are auditioning, for instance, with Guys and Dolls, even when people are auditioning, for instance, with Guys and Dolls, you say, we're going to the hot box club. This is where the girls went who wanted to be themselves,

show their bodies. That was their choice. And in working with our companies, we've had just amazing responsive reactions and brilliant, brilliant performances. Do you know what, Arlene, I'm so heartened to hear you say that you think that the world is a kinder, more caring and nicer place, because I think actually that's not a comment that many people make, especially those in the arts at the moment.

And I wonder, does that come from being, you know, 80 years old? Is that because you look back and think actually the world was a bit mean to you at some points in your career? You know, probably over-criticised you, judged you for your body, all of those kind of things we do recognise now as being hurtful. all of those kind of things we do recognise now as being hurtful. Yes. I mean, when I talk about the world is a different place, I am specifically talking about right now, everything that's going on in the world is breaking in my heart. I tell you where I can describe it.

But in the world of the way I was treated, But in the world of the way I was treated, mostly, certainly as a choreographer, mostly all male team who, without even trying, often thought that women, you know, were not equals. So there was a lot of that. Yes, there was a lot of argument about what bodies could do what. And even within Hot Gossip, you know, the girls and boys that were performing were first and foremost phenomenal dancers who happened to have great bodies. But it is, you know, it was challenging at the time. And I know I was a much harder person. I wouldn't, I found a different way to get what I want. And I found a different way to get what I want.

I was demanding and I would push people in the way that I was trained. And I have to say, because actually, funny enough, I saw one of them today. There is, I don't think anyone who has ever not thanked me for what I made of them, who has ever not thanked me for what I made of them, what I gave them in their lives in terms of the work, in terms of their achievements. But I think there is a way to do that where you approach it and you bring the performer that you're working with with you. This is what is expected. how do we find our way there so that's why I feel we are very much more generous and treat not the the harsh line I'm the

choreographer you're the dancer you do as I say, there is a way, can we come together and make this happen? Does the furore over your exit from Strictly, which many people believe to be ageist at the time, still flit across your brow at all? You know, it's only on occasions, it's only on occasions. It's only on occasions because when I'm asked by parents often, should my kid have this career or whatever that may mean, it was always, it's tough. It's really, really tough. And I say you've got to face rejection you must face rejection and the truth is that um I had to face rejection total rejection and and you know and found out in

the most awful way but I have to build myself back up again remember I had a career I there was always a career there just get on with the career just get on with what you do but occasionally yes I will see some amazing amazing dancer you know that I love adore. Leighton Williams was an example. And I so wanted to be there to criticize, not to criticize, but to be able to say what I thought about Leighton. Working with him has been a joy in my life, a real joy. He's a very special, special human being.

So those just sometimes jump in the way and I get that longing. Oh, my gosh, if I could have been there, I would have said whatever I want to say. Mostly, no, I just get on with it. And I enjoy watching the dancers. And, you know, I have many friends amongst the judges and the pros. So no, I got an amazing life. Yeah. Well well i still miss you on the judging panel arlene so i always turn on strictly and rather hope that you'll be there again arlene phillips and if you want to pop along to see her stage thingy uh it's on at the adelphi theatre in london it's obviously not called a thingy it is 75 75 years celebrating the NHS in dance.

J. Malkerans will now bring you a restful and peaceful and I would have thought thought provoking piece of prose from Parkey, the autobiography of Michael Parkinson. I had known Elton for many years. We used to go and watch Watford together when he was chairman of the club. I would sit next to him while rival fans abused him about being queer and taking it up the rear and other such pleasantries and I would marvel at his fortitude and his good humour in the face of the most appalling provocation. But this was a different Elton, almost a defeated man. When he talked about his marriage to Renata, he said they were having a

trial separation. A year later, they divorced. Mary and I had been guests at the wedding in Australia in a pretty church on a hill overlooking Rushcutter's Bay. I think we might have been the only couple present who were not stoned. I remember that an insect crawling up one of the stone pillars in the church attracted an inordinate amount of attention from guests who gazed in awe at the creature's progress no doubt seeing a golden snake gliding across a rainbow or some other similar hallucination The fans held their boogie boxes

blaring out Elton's greatest hits at the open windows as the organ played the wedding march. I commissioned a painting by Australian native artist Narelle Wildman of the wedding party outside the church and I gave it to the couple as a wedding present. I wonder who has it now. When I see Elton nowadays, happy in his relationship with David, secure in his position as one of the giants of rock and roll,

I sometimes recall that hunched and pained figure I interviewed in Leeds, and marvel at the strength and self-deprecating humour that saw him through the crisis to his present state of prosperity and content. He sued the sun, and he won. The paper published a full front-page apology, and reportedly paid Elton a record £1 million sum settlement. At the end of the show, Elton suggested he should perform Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me. In the 15 years between leaving TVAM and returning with the talk show to the BBC, I practised the Michael Caine theory of employment. This involves accepting anything legal that is offered

and the certain knowledge that a lot of it will be forgettable, even risible, but also understanding that every time you go before a camera or a microphone, you learn something about your craft. Good night. Don't have nightmares, kids. Thank you very much. I feel I want more.

Can I do more tomorrow? Yes, you can. We're back tomorrow. It's Jane and Fee at times.rodeo. If you'd like to email us, have a very good evening wherever you are. You did it. Elite listener status for you for getting through another half hour or so

of our whimsical ramblings. Otherwise known as the hugely successful podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. We missed the modesty class. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler, the podcast executive producer. It's a man. It's Henry Tribe. Yeah, he's an executive.

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