Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Does S&M include much chilli sauce? (with Sarah Beeny)

Episode Date: August 31, 2023

Jane G has been trying out a hot wings challenge, while Jane M was trying to escape Three Bridges Station.They're joined by property TV presenter Sarah Beeny.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiAssistant Producer: Kate LeeTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. There is a level of spice that is not pleasurable for me.

It's like, you know, I wouldn't be into S&M and I'm not into... Does that involve a lot of chilli sauce? Well, I think in some extreme examples it might. No, I'm not into extremes. No.

Well, as discussed this week, you know, I sort of approach... My eyes are still watering. I approach things with sort of far too much enthusiasm sometimes. And I was in Mexico with my parents a few years ago and we just went down to a very local little Mexican restaurantican restaurant and you know we're sitting down ordering food and drinks and they so they brought some little salsas and some little chips and i dug one of the chips into the green into the green salsa with gusto and then my tongue swelled up so much i couldn't speak for about 10 minutes my dad was encouraging me to have a lot more of that green

salsa it was honestly the hottest thing he really liked the peace and quiet yeah and we're talking about this because I was talking about hot sauce and chicken wings on the times radio not just talking about it well I mean I'm so brave that I even tried some chicken wings and I was being all butch and yeah this doesn't really get to me this guy I can do spice and then all of a sudden I couldn't do spice anymore I couldn't do this spice and I had to have a cup of milk when's the last time you had a cup of milk actually it was some time ago because this let's face it most of us get to a certain age you don't drink cups of milk no no claggy was it was it one of those slow burn, that sort of immediately you thought was okay, and then suddenly your head was exploding?

I felt okay, and then all the tingling started. Somebody also told me that different chillies from different parts of the world affect you differently. So people from Mexico have grown up with those certain chillies. I find them less hot than perhaps an Indian chilli, if they're not used to those. I don't know if that's true. Perhaps the listener knows. I'm sure a listener will know. If there is a doctor of chilli out there're not used to those. I don't know if that's true. Perhaps the listener knows.

Oh, I'm sure a listener will know. If there is a doctor of chilli out there, please let us know. A doctor of chilli. Yeah, there's bound to be. Somebody's done a PhD on... In fact, there's definitely going to be PhDs done on chillis. Yeah.

In fact, a friend of mine wrote a book about hot sauce. I should just ask him. Really? Yeah, a whole book about hot sauce. What was the title of the book? Let's give it some publicity. Hot Sauce Nation by Denver Nicks. There we are.

Rush out now for the ultimate Christmas stocking filler for the person in your life who likes sauce. It's not a hefty volume. No, but it'd be just the job. But a great read. Right. Now, we were talking about the full moon and unsurprisingly, there have been some emails on the subject.

There have been. And did you, because you were going. This is Jane Mulkerrins and Jane Garvey, by the way. I'm Garvey, she's Mulkerrins. I think I once said that we could be a County Mayo detective agency. Yeah. And we probably could. But we're not.

We're currently working at Times Radio. You were going last night to swim in the sea? Yes. Did it actually happen? It did happen. So I was a little bit delayed because for the first time in my new life, commuting to Brighton, I got stranded at Three Bridges for about 45 minutes, which is unfortunate. Can I just say that should be the title of a novel, or a slightly turgid epic poem. Stranded at Three Bridges. That's an obscure station, isn't it? I've been through it.

It's very obscure. And it's got a depot nearby. So all of these trains were going past, but just not letting any people on. But next next time i'm standing there i'm going to write that poem okay and then i'll come and do some live poetry for you so you've got that anyway yeah i got home in the end and um was straight straight into my cozy yeah in the sea by nine o'clock right um it was very dark and quite rough could you you see the moon? Oh, gosh, the moon was enormous. I've actually given some content to our producers here, pictures of the moon and a video of me howling. And will it be available?

I'm not sure. I'm not sure if it'll be available. Kate's giving us the nod. So it's obviously got past the Times Tower census and has been deemed suitable. Don't blame me if it causes offence in your household. It was, my friend came with me. I definitely wouldn't have got in on my own,

but it was very dark and very rough. So we didn't stay in too long, but we dunked, we held at the moon and then we went and ate some chips. Lovely. Sounds good. It was great. Very restorative. Right.

Well, it is interesting that we we talked yesterday about the moon having an impact on people yeah and not not always in a good way um lynn says my mother had dementia and had episodes of wandering when the moon was full mum could no longer tell the time even with the aid of a speaking clock one lovely sister gave her. We suspect a full moon made it look as bright as day to her, so she'd set out for her favourite activity, a walk. Fortunately, she didn't really make it beyond the grounds and soon moved to a much more secure place with lovely, attentive staff. When our children had a particular teen visitor,

they would go outside and howl at the full moon part of the attraction was setting the local dogs off howling and they could hear the howls spreading up the valley cue puzzled neighbors discussing what had set the dogs off the night before i've now i've remembered i may try it with the blue and super moon tonight i'm in my 70s so can i claim a second childhood that's from lyn. Definitely, Lynn. I think you probably can, Lynn, but I don't understand what you mean by when our children had a particular teen visitor, they would go outside and howl at the full moon. What was happening there? I think we need more, Lynn. Yeah, I mean, I could hazard a guess at post-pubescent

teenage girls, perhaps. Periods? Yeah. Oh. But maybe, I don't know. I don't think we need to be coy about menstruation on this podcast, Jane. No, we talked about lifts and pelvic floors the other day, didn't we? Yeah, no, we did. Just very briefly, Lynn goes on to say, I'm a Kiwi, so I was listening to Maggie Alfonsi yesterday.

Rugby is the national sport, but I'm not a fan, especially now we see former players developing early onset dementia. Until they adjust the rules to prevent concussions, I won't be watching any games, even when the amazing, agile women are playing. But I secretly harbour a hope that a Pacific Island team or Ireland win the Cup. Lynne, thank you for that. I hope you you enjoy the men's world cup as we now call events that don't don't feature women no i'm i'm really thrilled to be a part of that i'm going to be very pedantic and constantly refer to it as the men's sorry which one oh the men's world cup the men's world cup didn't know which one you're talking about but you see for years and years we just

bought into the notion that anything was just it was just the world cup unless it was otherwise yeah now i've realized how stupid I was for years. So we do need to say it. I just want to say about Lynn's point there at the end about head injuries and early onset dementia because we had, oh, I'm going to forget his surname, Steve, the wonderful rugby player who has got early onset dementia.

Oh, Thompson. Thompson, thank you. The most moving interview with him in the magazine last year and it's absolutely tragic and i am also very concerned about head injuries in rugby and it's hard because i i've got friends whose teenage sons are excellent rugby players but i don't know if i had a teenage son how happy i would be about them playing rugby i know that they're going to great lengths now to try and avoid them and you can't tackle high and things like that. But when you look at the effect it's had

on people like Steve Thompson, who can't remember his children's birth. And he won the Rugby World Cup, didn't he? He was part of that team. Yeah, it is really sad. I know Maggie Alfonsi, who was our guest yesterday, did say that she would let her children play. But yes, she's hyper aware of the uh danger

of concussion and head injuries and the game we are told is doing its very best to improve things but i guess without some of that physicality then it's not it's not the same game and i don't get the appeal in terms of playing it at all but that clearly is part of the appeal. And it's very difficult to see how they can keep that spirit of the game and make it safer. Perhaps they can. I mean, same with American football in the US. It's such a physical game, but it's such a lot of head injuries. Can I just pat us on the back a little bit from a listener?

We don't get enough of that. We don't get enough. Who is telling Jane and Jane to stop talking? Who is that? Who is that? Well, I'll tell you exactly who it was. Yeah, we can send you names after. I love their epic chat yesterday.

This is what we love. I love the big chat. At the beginning is the best bit. Thank you, Mel. Mel also says, I'm a Labour voter, but I love Rory Stewart. Alistair and Rory are the male version

of Jane and Fee on the pods, and I adore them. But especially Rory, he is lush. Mel, I would like to direct you. I love the word lush. Yes, you director. I would like to direct you to last Saturday's Times magazine. And it's still on the website and the app

where you can read a cracking interview by Janice Turner with Rory Stewart. It did phenomenally well on the Times website. I bet it did because that podcast does really well. I mean, it's such a clever concept, isn't it? But such a simple one. To take two people from... Two men. Two men from opposite...

Two white men. Okay, yeah. All right, it's not a clever concept at all. It's the oldest concept in the book. But the fact that they don't agree with each other... Well, that's the problem. I think Hadley Freeman a couple of weeks ago in the Sunday Times, said they were basically centrist dads, and they are.

And they do actually agree with each other quite a lot. However... However, Mel, I will just say, in this piece, there is a wonderful picture that you'll probably think is very lush that made me giggle, of Rory Stewart dressed as Lawrence of Arabia walking across Afghanistan. Now, I'm not saying Rory Stewart dressed as Lawrence of Arabia walking across Afghanistan now I'm not saying Rory hasn't done a lot of very wonderful things uh for people and with his charity and in service but um the picture of him in the little hat made me giggle a bit yes it also

made me giggle have you heard Rory Stewart talking about the interview in this week's the rest oh no I haven't well he does so I'll just point you in that direction because I think he feels it was the bit where Janice Turner gets him to talk about his relationship with Alistair Campbell. And actually, it turns out they don't know each other all that well. They've only met once.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And he talked about possibly having a kind of daddy type. Daddy issues. Daddy issues. It was all slightly odd. But I'm interested in Janice's take that perhaps Rory isn't as interested in women

and in the opinions of women as he should be. And look, I do listen to their podcast. I need to be absolutely honest about that. I think I've listened to almost all of them, perhaps not all of them. And I find it very compelling. I also find it profoundly irritating because I often think they do completely miss a female perspective

and they don't even know they're missing it because they've never really been called out on it. Well, they have now. Well, yes, they have now. Thank you, Janice Turner. And Rory Stewart is coming on our programme in a couple of weeks' time. And I am looking forward to it because, as I say, I've listened to his stuff. He won't be unaware of women's opinions after that.

Fi and I don't have opinions. Not really. Misdemeanours by Moonlight. This is from Katrina. Dear Jane and Jane, Photographing the night sky is frustrating in light-polluted London, but this evening my husband and I just had to stroll across the road from our holiday cottage in Somerset to get a

great view of the blood orange supermoon rising over a valley. We went back out for more photos once it was completely dark and we were just finishing when I became aware of a couple on the neighbouring farm talking about strange lights and movement. As we returned to our cottage we looked about nervously as it was pitch black by then. It wasn't until we were safely back inside that I realised two things simultaneously. Firstly the couple armed with torches were now conducting a full search of their own farm for the source of the lights and secondly we were the source of the lights. The guilty party, the LCD screens on our cameras and phones were on stargazing night vision mode,

which gave off a red glow. I wanted to apologise, but my husband felt things may not go well if we materialised out of the darkness, withering on about the full moon at this late stage in the game. I therefore spent a further 10 minutes peering out of a dark window, mortified, while the couple did a full and obviously completely unnecessary audit of the contents of two vans a small farm vehicle and a car before concluding that they had no malevolent visitors human or otherwise if the couple do

listen to this podcast this is our belated confession and apology if they don't then stories of unexplained full moon happenings may start circulating in Somerset, particularly as to keep warm, I was wearing on top of normal clothes, my husband's oversized hoodie, a blanket and a poncho, repurposed as a headscarf. Retrospectively,

I realise I may have resembled a yeti. Katrina, thank you for that wonderfully written and very interesting email. She's a sort of new beast of Bodmin or something. Katrina, thank you for that wonderfully written and very interesting email. She's a sort of new beast of Bodmin. Yes, she is. Cornwall, not Somerset. Big cats. The Yeti of Somerset. Thank you for that. That sounds great.

And it is a very British set of circumstances that you know you've caused a kerfuffle, you're watching the resulting kerfuffle take place and you have no idea how best to resolve the situation, so you say nothing. Just hide. Turn all the lights off.

Absolutely fine, by the way, Katrina. You dealt with it brilliantly. No better way. This is about rugby, again, back to rugby, from Claire, saying, Love the podcast. Listen from day one. But very disappointed in your interview yesterday with Maggie. Are Wales and Scotland not worth a mention? both teams are also in the world cup it's reasons for this that some scots and welsh people find it difficult to support an english team also she

says class is distinctly an english issue and not the same in all nations and in wales rugby is a working class sport that's interesting yeah there definitely is a difference and i should have said i'd like to apologize i should have said that i got something wrong um it is they're not angry they're just disappointed jane well yeah and you were saying earlier today that your mum and dad teachers say they've done a lot of that we're not angry we're disappointed yeah did i were like giving you the look then yeah i was i did practice that look for the first 18 years Did I, was I giving you the look then? Yeah, I was.

I did practice that look for the first 18 years of my life. Did you ever think of teaching? Yeah, quickly dismissed it. I did used to spend my summers teaching English language students in Brighton, actually. So my brother was a student at Sussex, so he used to live in his flat and teach naughty Italian boys and extremely linguistically able Scandinavian girls English. I don't think they learned anything from me but swear words and where to go underage clubbing. I think I was an absolutely terrible teacher. That's probably it.

We had a really good time though. Yeah. How do you teach? I mean, I have no idea. How did you get? Were you qualified as a? Oh, no. Just a keen amateur?

Yeah. Just someone who could sort of do a bit of crowd control and then take them bowling in the afternoon. So what was lesson one in the Mulkerrins term of English language teaching? I wish I could remember. I mean, we did have a sort of a syllabus. Right. But I think I probably just asked them whatever they wanted to learn.

I see. Yeah, it was conversational. They were in Brighton for a couple of weeks to snog each other and do a bit of shoplifting mainly. Oh, now listen, that is a little bit of a cliche. Oh, no. But it's funny you mention shoplifting because I was about to suggest. That's something that we used to associate with school exchange students.

I mean, you're quite wrong. It's an appalling xenophobic. It's evidence-based, Jane. I can tell you how many times there were complaints about the shoplifting. Really? Yeah. Well, is Brighton still a noted hotspot for that kind of thing? For language students, yes.

I can't speak to the shoplifting. No. It's a fabulous student city, though, isn't it? I've got one of my daughter's friends went to... In fact, I know a couple of students who've had such a good time at Sussex. But the uni campus is... Is it out of town? In Falmouth.

So there's two universities, actually, which is why there's so many students. There's Brighton University, which historically has more arts and photography and sort of creative stuff. And then Sussex, which is on the campus out in Falmouth now, University which historically has more arts and photography and sort of creative stuff and then Sussex yeah which is on the campus out in Falmouth now besides the new Brighton and Hove Albion Stadium oh yeah um it's brilliant Brighton a very good team yeah I'm hoping to go and see them next month oh wow oh you're really becoming digging in yeah and is there some so I have I've been to Brighton a few times I um had some good nights in Brighton. But is it, what is it? Do you wake up to the sound of the seabirds now?

When you wake up in the morning, do you have that kind of, I know I've made the right move here? Oddly enough, the positioning of my flat, I don't hear seagulls in the morning. What? I know. I should ask for my money back, or at least my deposit back. Yeah, I don't have seagulls.

If I was to move slightly down the street, I'd hear the seagulls. But yeah, it's incredibly quiet. When I wake up, I hear absolutely nothing, except the other morning, the beeping of my fridge at 3.30 in the morning. What was the problem? Oh, my friend was staying and she'd left the door open. Oh, silly woman. For God's sake.

Well, I'm saying it's a woman. I've got no idea. It was a woman. But that had nothing to do with her leaving the door open. Okay. But no, it's a woman. I've got no idea. It was a woman, but that had nothing to do with her leaving the door open. It's very peaceful. It's been transformative in terms of sleeping from West London and a main road. Genuinely. Genuinely.

Okay, my road in West London is actually quite quiet overnight. You know the thing that wakes me up, I've just realised, it's about ten to five in the morning. I've been waking up at that time now for about a year couldn't work out why and then it dawned on me it's the flaming times arriving and being thrown up my path uh by somebody i saw them once it's it's somebody in a you know they just open the door and just bung it and sometimes it lands right on the step and other times it's nearer the nearer the road it's extraordinary, but it wakes me up without fail. Would you like me to have a word with your delivery people?

Because obviously we do have a direct line to every paper boy and girl in the land. Just do it a bit more quietly. Place it on the door. Since when were papers delivered by cars? Since when were papers delivered? Well, if you get a subscription to the Times, Jane, as you must be aware, you do get your paper delivered. I've gone digital, Jane. Yeah, I've got digital and the real thing okay yeah i'm still a complete luddite

this is actually it's a good chance for me to mention the fact that my dad will be 90 on saturday on saturday so he won't be listening he's never listened uh but happy birthday to him and i was just looking up um some of the stuff he's lived through. And I mean, it goes without saying, but it is an astonishing amount of time to have been alive. I'm not sure he completely gets it, if I'm honest, that he appreciates just what a length of chunk of time he's lived through. Especially these 90 years.

I mean, maybe everyone feels that about... You know, a pandemic, a world war Four British monarchs I did all the calculations And do you know who was Prime Minister on the day he was born? I don't sadly Ramsay MacDonald Which just in the name means quite literally Almost nothing to most people now

It is extraordinary So that would have been 1933? Yeah Wow I know, phenomenal Wow, gosh And so how are you celebrating this monumental achievement? My dad is one of these people, like a lot of people, a bit like me, actually.

He doesn't want much fuss. But on the other hand, much worse than that would be no fuss at all. It's a fine line. It is a very fine line. And I'm very keenly aware that I have more in common with him around things like this than I might care to admit. What was the story that you told about his 21st that made me... And you just said, whatever you do, it will never be that bad. Well, unfortunately for my dad, he did national service.

He'd just finished national service on his 21st birthday. He came out back home to the place where he... pretty much the place where he still lives, very, very close to where he now lives. And he didn't have any friends because all his mates were either, they'd left the area or they were doing national service themselves.

So he spent his 21st with his mum and dad and his mum's best friend and her daughter. Oh. But it wasn't much of a gathering. I don't think the daughter particularly wanted to be there. And who can blame her, by the way? I think they were trying to get them together,

but that was for a multitude of reasons was never going to happen. And yeah, all tremendously awkward, very dull. And so whatever happens this weekend, it's unlikely to be any worse. No, it's going to be a rager by comparison, no matter what you do.

This is just the start. We've got another one on the 16th. As my dad says, if I'm still here, he takes nothing for granted. And of course you shouldn't. And he knows, I think, deep says, if I'm still here. He takes nothing for granted and of course you shouldn't and he knows, I think deep down, how fortunate he's been.

It's no mean achievement to get to 90. It's a massive achievement. But I like that he's having a birthday month. Yes, very much so. Yes, he has got another event squeezed in between

the two family ones. So yeah, he's not doing badly. So our guest today was property. Do you remember, it was wonderful the way I've just done that. That's professionalism,

isn't it? Just veered completely away. I'm just watching do you remember, it's wonderful the way I've just done that. That's professionalism, isn't it? Just veered completely away. I'm just watching and learning, Jane. Are you? Yeah, I wouldn't learn that much. Our guest this afternoon on the show was Sarah Beeney, Channel 4 property queen. She's made a whole string of property shows.

But it turns out that there's a lot more to her than that, actually. She's written a book called The Simple Life, which is a kind of beanie manifesto. And as this conversation proved, she's actually quite a political person. She's somebody who's interested in, certainly in the future of housing and housing policy.

And she's just got through breast cancer. And so she, actually going back to living a long time, she is most interesting because her mum died when she was only 10. And as she describes in this interview, it has an impact on your attitude to life so she's been treated brilliantly well by the NHS but she does have a few opinions on how things maybe could be improved within the National Health Service so it was a great pleasure to talk to Sarah Beeney and here she is. Hello. How are you Sarah? Very well thank you very much indeed. Good now and we

aren't we aren't going to focus solely on your health but you have had breast cancer. Yes. Six months treatment stopped is that right? Yeah so I was diagnosed almost a year ago actually just over a year ago and then I had six months of treatment and and yeah and now I'm not okay having treatment which is great. I'm sure it is and we will talk about it but it's not going to be exclusively about that because you are well you've got more to offer than that for a start and you don't want to be defined by it so there's loads of other stuff to talk about yes um first of all i mean you are known as a kind of property guru um you're all over channel four your new book is called the simple life and you've hosted programs like property ladder and new life in the country and you make the whole business of moving seem

like larks when i was saying earlier that for me it is truly an experience i've only ever done it three or four times in my life i have no desire to do it again why are you so addicted to this well i suppose i'm actually i'm terrible at moving is the truth of it. And I don't like moving. But so the book out today, the book that's out today, is a journey of my life through moving. But I also have had various businesses. One of them is a development company and an investment company. And I didn't live in those properties. They were just creating homes for other people.

But this, and I've had various other businesses. But as i say you can't put everything in one book so this is a journey of my homes but i actually haven't had that many homes in the big scheme of things um and it sort of starts when i did buy my first home at 19 so i guess i've been around a long time yeah that really interested me because you were very very young well i didn't think i was at the time. I thought I was terribly old at the time. But actually, looking back on it, you know, my husband was 80. He wasn't my husband

then, he was my boyfriend, but he was 18, I was 19, and we bought it with my brother, who was a couple of years older. And I just thought that was an entirely normal way to behave. And looking back now, my eldest son is now 19, and I look at him and think, gosh, I mean, he can hardly put the washing machine on.

Let's let him buy a flat. Actually, that's not true. Billy's amazing. He's brilliant. He's good at lots of things, but probably not. You know, he can, well, he has a rock band with his brothers. He can write music. I couldn't do that.

And he can perform, and I couldn't do that. But I don't think he can buy a flat. No, not like I could. And was it important to you to put down roots and do something really quite grown up at what is actually a very young age? Yeah, I mean, the whole concept of home I found really interesting

and it had a call for me, home. And I understood buildings because I'd been around building sites all my life because my dad was an architect. I'd seen buildings. So it kind of made sense in terms of you know a structure but you know I guess I I guess the thought that you feel really welcome somewhere and anyone you want also feels welcome there and they you never don't feel welcome there that real sense of belonging where where you know that that you're it's not safe as much as

completely welcome and there's no sense that anyone can ever make you feel unwelcome there that that's kind of fascinating to me yeah um personally but but also i have made a career out of it and create it because i think if you have a a home that functions really well actually you know i haven't had homes that had functioned very well, but I've created them lots for other people. And it's much easier to live and life is easier if, you know, everything sort of makes sense. When you go to a new property, a new friend's house, for example,

what do you look out for? Because I'd be petrified, frankly, to have you round because I'd be thinking this woman's making judgments all over the place. Well, weirdly, I don't actually make any judgment. I notice a feeling more than... Do you? I mean occasionally I'll turn up at someone's house and just think that is a really clever way to do that door or what a brilliant clever thing there but largely it's about how you feel when you go in someone's house. I mean have you ever been, I always think it's ironic, isn't it? Because we do our homes up and we think that's good.

But who are we doing it for? Because have you ever been to someone's house and say it's been a bit rough around the edges and they've given you a glass of wine and said, hey, and wake yourself at home. Have you ever thought, it's a bit messy on the sideboard. I don't think I'll linger.

No. And you don't. In fact, the ones who don't want to linger are the ones who are like, you know, vacuuming behind you going, oh, look, you've put some dust on the floor. Those are the ones who want to get out. The ones who've got chickens on the worktop.

Well, the best places are where you're offered a drink of some kind within a moment or two of arriving. Absolutely. And it's when you're not offered any sort of beverage or alcohol that I start to worry. Yeah, I mean, a little bit, we're hitting on a cultural thing here and that's absolutely reasonable

for anyone who does do shoes off. But, you know, when they say, could you just go back outside and take your shoes off? And then can you come in and stand and don't crease the cushions? And then you're kind of like, go on. I can't imagine that you do operate a shoes-off household. No, it's not really practical. No, I always say, okay, your sock's dirty if you take your shoes off.

I've never operated a shoes-off household either. I think it's a bit unnecessary. Yeah, I mean, it's very clean, and I respect anyone who's culturally, that's their thing. But, yes, I happen not to. What about the situation we find ourselves in now, because it was actually in the news earlier this week, when we know we have a desperate shortage of housing.

We also have a lot of people in the country who feel very passionate about protecting the environment, and it looks as though it might be difficult to build the new houses we desperately need and protect the environment at the same time. Yes, well, that's a big subject. Let's get going. Yes, over to you. Yes. So I would argue, and this isn't particularly politically popular, I don't think we necessarily have a shortage of housing because if we had a shortage of housing when you googled house for sale or house to rent there would be nothing there

and you wouldn't find one because that's what happens when you have a shortage what we have is a shortage of affordable housing and affordable rental properties and then we have to open the subject of where's our social housing what's it for what's the purpose of it was it right to to sell it off privatize social housing which is what we did was

right to buy it was that right to privatize it or not you know um question mark over to a conversation we've never actually solved that have we um no well i think we have to get a bit further back to kind of like solve that because no we have yeah no we haven't we have to say what is is social housing a little tiny gap to like plug a gap between one you know a disaster happening and then moving on is it like a three month four month window gap or is it permanent housing for for all our key workers and which case, is that because private housing is too expensive to rent? Arguably, yes. But then in that case, why do we not have more affordable housing?

Why is it not permanently? And it's all very well saying it's affordable for the first person, but then they sell it and where's the next lot? You can't keep on building. So I would argue we need to invest in infrastructure to get people to the houses we already have instead of having unbelievably expensive

and unbelievably unreliable railways and bus services. Okay. That was a very good attempt. I appreciate you making an attempt to answer an almost impossible question. I like the question. Thank you. There is at the moment, there's this huge generation gap as well if you're so I'm 59 and frankly I've done

rather well out of property just by pure fluke about being born because I was born in 1964 but for my kids generation and for people who are younger or a little bit older than them it's extraordinarily difficult isn't it it is I mean I would say yes you've rode you've ridden uh yeah so i'm a little bit younger than you by about a nanosecond yeah but but um by pure flute we have done very well but it i think there there is one misconception and that is it wasn't easy when we were young so people you know didn't get your pay packet on a friday and go and buy a three-bedroom house you know on the way home home before you bought your takeaway. It was really hard.

People were earning maybe, you know, really successful people might be earning eight grand a year. And my first flat that I bought at 19 was one and a half bedrooms with an outside loo, no services, and that was 52,000. So I was earning six grand. And I guess we were just clubbed together. And, you know, I mean, relatively speaking,

that's still easier than now because the time is in it up and you know I recognise you know the maths is not that difficult to work out that it's difficult but what I'm saying is it wasn't super easy that doesn't make it okay now no but I do worry now because I think

the hard thing is it's sort of fine if your parents happen to be in the right place at the right time because we can hopefully help those children. But what concerns me is the people who, the gap between the have and have nots is so massive. Well, when there is no bank of mum and dad, you are stopped. Yes, what happens?

And that's what really worries me, and I'd like to see a way of equalising that. But I don't see how we can do that just by building more flats and having schemes here and schemes there in invariably the schemes just mean that the flats are overpriced and then they come back to a normal price so i would like infrastructure to be that's what i'd really i'd like to have and if we'd sorted out buses cycle paths which are off-road in the countryside to link one place to another place, what a great way for farmers to get there.

You know, they haven't got their single farm payments, but if you put a cycle path inside the hedgerows connecting one station to another, all of a sudden that's kind of interesting. And so if we invested in cycle paths and trains, I mean, nationalise the trains. Let's be honest, just nationalise the trains. I mean, did I say that?

Do you remember British Rail Sarah? I don't know it was actually quite rubbish I go to other countries they've got trains that run every half an hour and they're like really affordable like cheaper than a car now it's cheaper to we just need to sort out the trains

You've almost got me started on Avanti West I'm not allowed to talk about them so I'm not going to mention mention it. Don't go on anymore. Right. We're talking to Sarah Beeney. I say we. I don't know why, because it's me and I. And I am talking to Sarah Beeney. And we'll return to the subject of actually, I think we'll do Rise Hall because that was quite a project. Let's talk about that in a couple of minutes. VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts.

Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Sarah Beeney putting the world to rights there during the outbreak. I you what I'd vote Beeney I really would Sarah's book is called The Simple Life and it's out today now this is actually about your move to Somerset so I'll have a word about that in a moment but Rise Hall

is a project that you've undertook in the last couple of years it's all over the telly so tell us about this place which had I can't believe it's in yorkshire over 30 bedrooms it did it did actually we bought it when we were quite young so um we bought in our late 20s and we had it for about 20 years okay so it was a long long time right okay but um but but yeah it had 32 bedrooms 97 members it was a building at risk so it was a listed building So how much did you pay for it? It was, do you know, something awful. I can't quite remember because it was 20-something years ago, but it was 420-something or 432 or something, 400 and a bit.

And yeah, it was a very long time ago. But it was a building at risk and it was a building that had no purpose. But it was a building at risk and it was a building that had no purpose. And Graham and I became really fascinated in the crisis of a listed building. So what happened after the war is thousands of stately homes were demolished. And if you think about the impact on the environment of building these houses, it's used a lot of the earth's resources to build it in the first place. And then to demolish it because this nanosecond in time it doesn't quite suit purpose seems a terrible waste in terms of its carbon footprint apart from anything else so so anyway

we're quite fascinated by the fact that some of these homes were in obviously it's in central london it would turn into a hotel but if it's not an area where it has a purpose then it just sits there and then the cost of the repair is greater than the value of the building that the value will ever have so if you've got a building that's for sale for ten thousand pounds but it's going to cost four million to repair and it's only ever going to be worth twenty thousand pounds then no one's going to buy it and they can force you to do that and take the money you know the council can do that so so as such you end up with a building at risk and so rise was a building at risk but it was a in a slightly better repair than some other buildings we've seen and you and graham your husband you have skills you're you're

not rank amateurs no i mean at the time we were 28 and 29 and we had a property development company and an investment company for about 10 years by then. So we had a bit of experience and we did understand what we were doing. You know, we'd looked at lots of buildings at risk. And then, you know, we saw Rise Hall and there was just a moment where, to be honest, someone dared us into it. They said, you'll never do it. And I thought, really? Watch this space. And is it all this before TV took an interest or did the two things happen at once?

No, no, no. This is before telly. all this before tv took an interest or did the two things happen at once no no this is before telly and then and then um telly came along weirdly about six months or a year later or something by which time that was really inconvenient because i was thinking we'll move our whole business up to yorkshire to where rice hall is but telly came along and sort of and i thought well i'll just do it once i'll probably go away won't in year after year it would happen i think oh god it's still here we are again here we are so um yeah so then we decided to turn it into a wedding venue rise hall which we we undertook a major restoration because we had a purpose and a reason for doing it then so we turned it into a wedding venue and it was really quite successful and yeah well you describe it sounds a very idyllic existence actually in in rise hall

with lots of mates coming and going and your your brother your brother no hang on i need to your brother married your husband's sister that's right yeah so there's an incredibly tight family unit there it is i mean it is legal by the way no no i was wearing it although it does take a little bit of working out hang on is this I mean, it is legal, by the way. No, no, I wasn't wearing it at all. Although it does take a little bit of working out. Hang on, is this strictly legal? But it is. It's absolutely fine. I'll hear about it. But yeah, it made for a lot of fun, if I'm honest.

It made for big parties. You maintain that you always had clean sheets. Yes, we did. Well, do I believe that? In all 32 bedrooms? Yeah, well, I found this. The truth is, that was my luxury. I found this. The truth is, that was my luxury, is I found this hotel laundry company, and they pick up the sheets and drop them back clean and ironed.

So I was like, it's going to be dirty. There's one bathroom for everyone to share, but clean sheets. So that made, you know, that's not so bad, is it? No heating, but we had electric blankets. Meanwhile, four children, four sons later, you have moved to Somerset. Yes, yes. And this is because?

Well, we ended up more in London because term and stuff had to commit somewhere and we ended up more in London. So we ended up keeping, we had Rise, it was then a wedding venue, and then we ended up with a big family home in London. And then many things collided. Graham had always talked about building a house,

and I sort of ignored him. But he meant literally building. Yeah, he literally meant. I thought he was just saying, if we built our own home, we'd do this. If we built our own home, we'd do this. And I kind of was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just always assumed that it wasn't completely literal

was what he meant. And anyway, I realised he was literal. But then lots of other things happened, like my dad had a stroke and education. That's what really sent us from London because I was worried about the fact that the schools we were looking at in London, A, were almost impossible to get into,

but also they didn't really celebrate the arts in the way that I considered they should bearing in mind that my husband's an artist and we're in the arts and I was like, hang on, why are you not doing the arts? Anyway, we found a school that was much more arts focused and then Graham was like, should we do it? And then I thought, he's never stopped me doing anything I've wanted to do

am I going to be the one when he's 95? He says, well, I would have built a house, but my wife wouldn't let me. Oh, Sarah, can you imagine being that woman? I can't. I think not. No, I thought not on my watch. So, yeah, we did it. And so the place in Somerset is now the subject of your latest TV project.

It certainly is. So we made a series about that. And we bought an ex-d. And it was a, we bought an ex-dairy farm, built a house. And, and then, then at that point, I was like, if we're going to do this, we're going to simplify our lives. So we sold Rice Hall, and we sold our home in London, and we had a camping field somewhere, we sold that and sold everything, sold everything. And we had various businesses all over the place. All of. We haven't sold all of those, but a lot of things. Sort of a decluttering on a major scale.

And ended up down in Somerset, which is fabulous. And so the breast cancer struck at a time when, well, there's obviously no good time to get a diagnosis. And I found it very moving in the book because your mum died of breast cancer when you were just 10. And you write that there was a part of you that thought you'd been waiting for your own diagnosis for most of your life which was very sad yeah I mean there was I just sort of expected that to happen in a way and then did you really expect it to happen yeah I mean I wasn't scared I just assumed that was

going to be the case you know it was it was just, I just thought, right, I've got to fit everything in because I, you know how a lot of people assume they're going to be around until 90 and so they have time. I was in a terrible hurry because I just thought, well, I may well not make it to 40. So I need to get on.

Like, I'm terribly impatient. I was like, come on, we've got to get on with I'm terribly impatient I was like come on we've got to get on with this and do this and and take every opportunity because it might not come again and like quick have children have more more children that's brilliant so you just say yes to everything so it was a bit of a when I got to 39 I did have a bit of a rocky year at 39 and when I hit 40 I was a bit like whoa I'm still here now what do I do oh that was a bit like, whoa, I'm still here. Now what do I do? Ooh, that's a bit weird. And then, so yeah, that was kind of strange. But then, and then at 50, then I was diagnosed with breast cancer. But then I discovered, which was, which was kind of weird and cathartic,

is that actually a lot of my fears have been, it wasn't based on fact, they were based on fears, not fact. And often very related to something that happened 30 years before, not based on what happens now. So, and certainly not what happens in the future, what will happen in the future. So it gave me, you know, basically it was a box with demons in it

and I had to open it up and I had to look at the demons and I discovered they were just some worms actually weren't even demons and and now I feel very well I was very fortunate to have the diagnosis I did and live in the UK with the NHS well and you're you're full of praise for the treatment you had and by the way you look brilliantly well so I'm delighted delighted for you but you also say that there was a chapter that you wanted to write about the nhs indeed you wrote it and you were told not to include it in the book now um does that suggest

that you said some quite controversial things there or yeah tell me yeah i mean it was a little bit controversial i mean there's a you know i i was counseled to take out a lot of my political i am a little bit opinionated. It's a great thing, by the way. Opinionated, not educated. But anyway, that's... But, yeah, I am a little... But I suppose...

I mean, I do... I was counseled to take quite a lot of them out because they can be taken totally out of context, these things. But, I mean, I do fundamentally... The one thing I really would like is... I'd like to see a cross-party 20-year solution for the NHS and education and transport and the environment. Because I'm not sure you can fix anything in two years

before you're trying to get in again. It's just like a, so therefore the same things happen, nothing changes. But I think at the point that all the parties said, okay, we'll make a 20-year plan you can make a difference in a generation for the nhs or you know there's i i'm being i'll try and say as little as possible but i don't think the nhs is short of money it's short of efficient systems and there's it's very sort of paperwork heavy and if you actually ask most uh doctors what they do they spend an enormous

amount of time fully in forms and no one reads the forms so you kind of go anyway that i probably shouldn't uh dig a hole for myself listen you've been through a particular experience and so you have lived that experience and i do think you are entitled uh to have your say and there'll be plenty of people listening who agree with you sarah Sarah Beeney who was the guest on the Times Radio show this afternoon full of energy and looking terrifically well so we wish her all the very best. It's interesting just talking about the NHS I had an NHS routine eye appointment at the eye hospital this week and just occasionally it's worth bearing in mind that sometimes things go brilliantly well. It was the staff couldn't have been friendlier.

It was actually I went in, the waiting room was rammed. I thought, oh, God, there's a sign up saying just to let you know, you could be waiting between two and four hours. And I thought, well, I'm going to have to ring work. I won't be able to get there. What am I going to do? But I waited about 20 minutes and then it was fine it was great and um everyone was lovely and just sometimes you just need to acknowledge it so thank you nhs some things are wrong but some things go really well sometimes unexpectedly well and it's worth noting i of course got an email asking me to comment on the nhs performance did

you really oh yeah with it i mean this is the other thing. Wow, they send follow-up emails. They send follow-up emails after, and this is a very routine I thing, actually but it was good in a way to get that because I was able to fill in everything positive. Yeah. So there you go. I never fill those things in, no matter what service.

I mean when I get ones from the builders merchants who've just delivered some plywood or, you know, the movers. How was my delivery? Yeah, rate my delivery. Well, the reason I did this, I think partly was that my mum was an NHS receptionist. And so I always, on my way out, always thank the receptionist because I think that could be my mum. And it was my mum. And she worked in a variety of locations in the Liverpool area

and sometimes was on the receiving end of horrible abuse. Do you think it's a northern thing as well, though? My friend reckons that the way you can spot a northerner, because obviously we posh up our accents a bit to be understood down here. Totally. But we thank the bus driver always. I've stopped doing that. Have you? See how much you've poshed up.

You've lost your roots. I'm not as kind as I used to be nowhere near as decent as I appear speaking of which Fee Glover is back next week

oh that was cheap and unnecessary and by the way she's lovely I enjoyed it though yes she's talking you and I

are just out of the picture because next week she's with Annika Rice on Monday Claire Balding Tuesday and Wednesday and Annika on Thursday.

Or is it the other way around? No, I think that was right. That's right. I got it right. So that's going to be really interesting. And do not miss Monday, whatever you do, because Giles Brandreth is the guest. It's going to be amazing. And you will be somewhere

eating small doughnuts again in a pool. Back to Arancini Central for me. Yeah, so... Just for five days. You won't be thinking about us here either. I'll tell you what I'm fuming about. The bloody weather here. It's got better.

It's getting better. No, it's just not there. Anyway, I shouldn't be so bitter. Although, why not? Why stop now? Yeah, why stop now? It's faintly pleasurable. I'll be thinking of you all.

Keep the emails coming. Jane and Fee at times.radio. And I can't say it often enough, we really appreciate the stuff you send in. It's brilliantly written, it's witty, it's thoughtful, and we love reading them. So thank you. Keep them coming. We're bringing the shutters down on another episode of the internationally acclaimed podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover.

Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe. But don't forget that you can get another two hours of us every Monday to Thursday afternoon here on Times Radio. We start at 3pm that you can get another two hours of us every monday to thursday afternoon here on times radio we start at 3 p.m and you can listen for free on your smart speaker just shout play times radio at it you can also get us on dab radio in the car or on the times radio app whilst you're out and about being extremely busy and you can follow all our tosh behind the mic and elsewhere on our Instagram account. Just go onto Insta and search for Jane and Fee and give us a follow.

So in other words, we're everywhere, aren't we, Jane? Pretty much everywhere. Thank you for joining us. And we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon. VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iphone screen voiceover on settings so you can navigate it just by listening books contacts calendar double tap to open breakfast with from 10 to 11 and get on with your day accessibility there's more to iphone