Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Downward dog, upward rage

Episode Date: January 12, 2026

Namaste. Happy Monday. Jane’s got a bee in her bonnet about - well, quite a few things... Jane and Fi also chat about the 5am Club, unexpected legumes in the bagging area, playing the organ, and the talents of Omar Sharif. Our most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton. You can listen to our 'I'm in the cupboard on Christmas' playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1awQioX5y4fxhTAK8ZPhwQIf you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producers: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Are we on? Definitely. We've had a funny review, haven't we, over the weekend? Actually, to be fair, it was you. I wasn't around at the time. It was before Christmas, and let's just honour the fact that you, no, you, Fee, have been reviewed quite favourably in the... Well, I'll give you the opportunity to name that publication.

No, I wasn't talking about the Church Times while... Oh! Okay, so there are two things. First of all, the edition of the podcast that featured Susie Dent, which was in December, the Church Times. the church times has given it a very favourable review. Well, that has got nothing to do with me actually. It's because I was presenting the show

and therefore doing that interview with the wonderful Rosie Wright. Right. So I think that's the connection. Well, well done, Rosie. Because Rosie sings in many church choirs and has the faith that I don't have, so I think that would be the connection. Okay, well, congratulations to Rosie.

Yes. And to you, what a positive way to start the week. Isn't that lovely? Wonderful. And then the other one, which was in our own newspaper, suggested that we have full-on, structure and planning meetings before this, and we don't. Let's just reassure you on that fact in case you're thinking,

what a waste of time those meetings are. We don't do anything of the sort, do we? No, we don't, and we've always prided ourselves on that. We're only a few years away from that very earnest woman who approached us at the BBC and asked us who wrote the script for the podcast we did that. She said, does sound quite authentic. Anyway, there you go. Look, trust us, if you're listening to this,

it genuinely, it's just, we're just talking. And we benefit enormously from the fact that you're just talking to us as well. And we've had so many brilliant emails over the weekend. Thank you all for those. Honestly, they're brilliant, really are. Can I just ask you what you thought of Hamnet? Because you went to sit over the weekend. Yes, I did. And I've been in some fiery debate already on one of my WhatsApp groups this morning about it. Because I think I'm in the category of a great friend of mine.

She and I really, really, really, really, wanted to love it and we didn't quite. I'm sorry. And why didn't you quite? Because I tell you what, for me, everything I thought about it was crystallised after I got home and I was flicking through the Sunday Times and I read Tom Sean's review of Hamnet and he interestingly, I think he's a bit of an outlier in the critics' world because he gave it two stars and the headline in the piece was look at me, I'm acting. And gosh, if I'm sounding really heartless, I did cry because it's incredibly moving the film,

but I didn't think it was as good as I'd hoped. I'm really sorry, everybody. I just didn't. I'm sorry. I feel terrible because, look, Jesse Buckley's an amazing actress. I'd seen her in a film years ago, Wild Rose, about the country singer, and I absolutely loved her in that.

And I love her kind of journey, her trajectory from the talent show she appeared on quite a few years ago now to this amazing megastardom. But I think Tom did mention in his review that the script was a bit, he felt the script was a bit lacking in places. And so did I. But I keep saying, sorry, I am just sorry. I think that she's better than him in the movie.

I don't think Paul Muskell, when Paul Muskell was being drunk, William Shakespeare, I didn't think that that was convincingly drunk. And it's an interesting one that, how people, some actors really nail being plastered. It's not easy to be plastered. No, and it's not easy to act it because it would be so easy to overact it. And then it just looks like an episode of the professionals. So I didn't think that he quite nailed that.

But I suspect that it's one of those films that if you've read the book, you have an imprint in your mind of so much more than a film can ever, ever deliver. And trying to get all of that. I mean, it's just a film about grief. It doesn't have a huge plot. It doesn't have twists and turns. It's a film about grief. You know what's going to happen

from the moment that you walk into the movie room. I'm not going to say that word. So I think it slightly fails over that, actually. During one truly heartbreaking scene in the film, there was a very, very audible snore from the third row of the cinema I was in. And it was a slightly older chap, I'm going to say, his companion went berserk.

I won't mention the name, but she... This bloke, he had slightly taken away some of the tension in the room, I have to say. I don't know how he could have fallen asleep, I really don't. Anyway, shout out to gorgeous North Herefordshire. Well, I was going to say, did you like the boof nature? Yeah, well, it's Webbly, which is a beautiful place in Herefutcher, well worth a visit. And I think it's already attracting tourists on the strength of the fact that it plays Stratford in the film. I think that the cinematic thing of my jiggy-wots-it

that has been accomplished in the movie is fantastic. I'd tell you what the other thing I thought after I'd watched it. I mean, it really, it doesn't spare the blushes of the conditions that you had to live in. I said that to my daughter. Honestly, for anyone who wants to live in a half-timbered house, I'd think again. Please think again.

I mean, what were the winters like? Just dread. And not just that. I was really struck by the fact that mothers, you know, Jesse Buckley plays William Shakespeare's lady wife, basically had to be doctors as well as everything else, didn't they? I know she's the daughter of, what was it, a forest witch, we're told in the film. And so she had to come up with all kinds of lotions and potions. And honestly, as a matter of routine, your children died. How horrific was that?

It must have been just dreadful. Well, that is the huge motivation for Maggie O'Farrell. having written the book. Oh, right, okay. So she wanted to turn on its head the notion that you didn't care so much about your children. Because you lost loads. Because you lost so many of them.

And that actually every child who died would have had as much meaning as a child in the 1.4 era of fecundity that we find ourselves in modern day Britain. So I think that they nail that because the slightly kind of taciturn mother-in-law comes into her own when she just quite simply in the movie and in the book talks about the babies that she lost.

But it's not in a kind of, oh, that one, that one, that one way. Oh, forget the names. So I think it's a, you know, it will always remain a remarkable book, won't it, whether or not you've enjoyed the movie. And look, I just love, I love going to the cinema as you know. As you know, I fell back in love with it. Nice sort of jungle cruise. And I'll always go.

I'll try and go at least a couple of times a month because I just love it. So even a bad film's a good time for me. But that's such an interesting point, isn't it? Well, it's quite an interesting point. It's not a really interesting point. But you used to go to the movies and just see loads of films

that you didn't particularly like because that was the main exciting form of entertainment on. We've become incredibly choosy, haven't we? Where are we rotten tomatoes, everything, before we watch it. But I'm with you. Why not just go and see a film? And if you don't like it,

A, you can leave. You can just look like you did. Yes. And B, you can just sit through something that you don't particularly adore. It's all right. Who knows? It's okay.

You might learn something. You might. I'll tell you someone who hasn't learned anything. And that's Lord Mandelson. He's still a Lord. Segway of dreams. Thank you very much. Haven't lost it.

Took a few weeks out, but I still got it. Oh, dear, smug workshop overbush. Yes, God. He was interviewed yesterday by Laura Coonsberg. and I think it's fair to say he did himself precisely no favours. What a load of tosh, Peter. Sorry. Another apology.

Well, he failed to make an apology, even though press by Laura Coonsberg very deftly and certainly, he wouldn't say sorry for his association after Geoffrey Epstein was in jail. This is the bit I don't get, he knew why he was in jail. And there is an email that has surfaced where he suggests that Epstein, should try and go for an appeal and a shorter sentence. So he knows what the man is accused of

and convicted of and he stayed in touch. And that's what Laura Coonsberg was pressing him on as an apology. And he refused to apologise. One of the reasons that he says he doesn't need to is that he denies any culpability in what happened in Jeffrey Epstein's world because he never saw it because he was gay. And I think if you stand that on its head, Jane, it would not exonerate us from being around somebody who was on an industrial scale

abusing, let's just say, young gay men. I don't think we would be able to stand there and go, I didn't know anything about it, I'm heterosexual. I didn't notice. It just seems the most bizarre excuse. There just would have been talk. There would have been talk. Of course there was.

And even if there isn't talk. Well, it was more than talk. the man was in prison? The one thing that we know now is that it can be extremely helpful for the path of victims to a sense of, it would never really be justice.

You know, the man took his own life or did he in prison? You know, so that justice has been denied the victims, but they often speak of how important it is for people to say sorry and mean it. I mean, it doesn't strike me as something that's going to cost Peter Mandelts and anything to say sorry.

Read the memo, read the handbook. You've watched the Andrew Mountbatten-Batter interview. Peter, read the room. Just, yes. Just for God's sake. Why wouldn't you say sorry? And is that about some kind of culpability or deniability or what's that about, Jane? I honestly haven't got a clue. I mean, he was always thought to be a, shall we say, I think I'm safe to say, a slightly slippery character. But look, he was entrusted with this extraordinarily important role on behalf of all. All of us, the British ambassador to Washington right now, that's a big, big job.

And the fact that he was thought to be the best appointment, wow. I'm always going to find that a bit of a tricky one. The other thing that victims always want now is for somebody to really tell tales on who else was there and what they know. And it's very important for other people who were around, not the women themselves. to corroborate evidence against people because it's been too easy for those women to be dismissed and smeared and undermined and attacked.

And I'm not sure that I've heard very much from men who didn't see anything, but must have known who was at the parties they were at. That's why they were at parties. We're still waiting. Otherwise you're partying alone, Peter. Epstein's dead. Maxwell's in prison.

She's female. course, and we await further developments. I mean, I'm not sure how, if, really, when, I think it's unlikely. We're not going to get this resolved. I just don't think any of those men are going to find themselves actually standing up in a court of law and trying to defend what went on. But we'll see. Yeah. Can I throw in a completely new, very exciting, and that's in capital letter's idea for a new segment? I think this is one of the most brilliant emails we've had. It's from Emily who says, of all of the things I thought might prompt me to write to your show, I didn't think it would be this. I rent a locker at my gym, Locker 53.

I mean, that's the title. We've got it. Locker 53. Yeah. And for several weeks now, I've been finding loose peanuts inside it. At first, I assume this was a one-off, a stray nut, a peanut with ambition. But it's become a pattern, a recurring feature of my week as subplot in my life I didn't request. My current theory is that the person who rents the locker a bit of, Above me is a prolific peanut carrier, and gravity is doing the rest. I very much hope this is the case because the alternative, a rogue peanut planter, deliberately targeting my locker, feels needlessly personal.

It is also, I should add, lucky I'm not allergic, otherwise this would be less quirky mystery and more medical incident. Naturally, instead of simply getting on with my life, I thought this could be a segment. Everything is content, after all. Things in places they really shouldn't be. For example, and so much thought has gone into this, ever thought. join our structure and planning meetings. Should be very welcome.

For example, a lone contact lens in a coat pocket, a lipstick in the cutlery drawer, a wrapped worth as original in the toe of a shoe, or in my case, a steady supply of Jim Locker Peanuts. Which brings me to my actual very important question, when is your live show being rearranged? I need something to look forward to, and ideally something that doesn't involve unexpected legumes.

with gratitude, mild confusion and a faint smell of salted nuts. Well, we can do the show thing very quickly. No idea. No, do you? No, I have no idea about it. But we will let you know. Yeah. When we can.

I'm very puzzled by this. And Locker 53, genius. Yeah. Absolute genius. What is going on there? What? Is it an upmarket establishment? Well, I think we might need more information.

I wouldn't have thought it's just a very successful locker. If it has got a gap large enough for a nut to fall. through because credit cards would slip down the back all kinds of things if it was the locker from above. It just seems really quite bizarre. Is somebody leaving you an offering? But how could they do that?

Because they can't gain access to your locker. It is strange, isn't it? And why would they choose a couple of nuts? Yep. We would love to hear about unexpected items in the baggage area though because that is always, always superbly entertaining. This is from Sarah who says,

this is after I said, Dr. Chavago, the film I watch at least once a year, I did find it slightly odd that in a country as large, and let's face it at the time, as troubled as Russia, Julie Christie and Omar Sharif just did keep bumping into each other,

which led to all kinds of confusion and beautiful love scenes between the two. I do love Omar Sharif in that film. He went on to be the... I always made me love that Sunday Express Bridge correspondent. I was going to say, I know him mostly for Bridge. I don't even play.

bridge. No, he was a beauty in his day. I don't know about how he conducted himself in his personal life, so I need to, but he was just at the time, let's just own it. He was fabulous. Can I just ask on the bridge thing, why is it called a rubber? I'm asking, I don't even play snap, so I've got no idea. But someone out there will know. Jane and Fee at times dot radio. Regarding Jane's disbelief at the likelihood of bumping by chance into people you know in a large country, well, I have bumped into people I know unexpectedly, several times in pretty big countries. Now the first was the artist who worked in the studio next to mine in the old metropolitan hospital in Dahlston in the 1980s. Do you know that? I don't know. The Metropolitan Hospital. That's how it's described here. Metropolitan

Hospital in Dolston. I wonder if it was one of those, there were all these dotted all over the country, these old fever hospitals and things like that. I'm going to look that up. Anyway, Sarah goes on. she unexpectedly materialised as I was walking under the Twin Towers in New York. Neither of us knew the other was going to be in that city on that day, and it was slightly disconcerting. I'm not surprised. And another time I got onto a bus while travelling in India and found an old acquaintance from London,

somebody I'd lost touch with sitting on that same bus. Of all the buses, in all the towns, in all the world, I walk on to his bus. But actually, there isn't a punchline here. was gay and I was with my then boyfriend, now husband of 30 plus years. Okay, still a good story, Sarah. And I do find that really bizarre. Now, Fia's back with news. No, it doesn't come up. You're not. Okay. So you can have the German hospital, St. Leonard's Hospital, the Marlmay Hospital, or the Homerton. Right. But the Metropolitan Hospital doesn't come up. So do let me know where that is just out of tiny, tiny locality, small locality curiosity.

Yeah, we're nothing without a bit nerdy interest. Yeah. I love. old buildings and old institutions that once served a very important purpose. Oh, definitely. Down on Hackney Road by Hackney City Farm, there's one of those old lying-in hospitals for women and children, which has now been converted into luxury flats. A lying-in hospital was... For women.

So that's where you went after you had had your baby. And you could just stay for between six to eight weeks, and you would just lie in while you were breastfeeding because breastfeeding's exhausting, a 24-hour job. And you shouldn't really be. expected to get up and, you know, go off and do the shopping and bounce around and all of that while you're producing milk for your baby. That does seem both very sensible and incredibly luxurious. Well, it does, doesn't it? Yes, yeah, and there's another one down by Waterloo.

And they're always... Yeah, because they're carved into the fascia, aren't they? And they're just, it is redolent of a completely, completely different time. And I now think that, you know, the 5am club are in those luxury flats now. They're... getting up and being extraordinarily busy and doing 27,000 things before the dawn has broken. And the irony is they're in a place that was built to lie down.

Why don't you all just lie down? Yeah. Okay. We've had quite a few 5am comments as well and I mean no shit Sherlock on this podcast. It's gone down like a cup of cold proverbial but also there's quite a lot of discussion about yoga speak.

Let's hear some yoga speak. Dear Fee, Jane, Rosie and Eve, Fee, I couldn't help but smile when you mentioned your New Year yoga session and comments on toxic positivity, I 100% agree. It brought to mind this very funny Canadian comedian Cathy Jones

who did a series of Anger Yoga Lady sketches on This Hour has 22 minutes. It's such a brilliant. That's clever. Really brilliant name for a show. It's a very popular political satire TV programme on the CBC. I thought it would be fun.

to share just a two-minute YouTube clip with you. There are a series of about eight other similar sketches by her on YouTube. She sends you all the very best, Jane, by the way, and so many of our e-mowners do at the moment. This is from Jan. Now, I looked at this at 6.45 this morning. So not quite 5 a.m., but still an early start. Yeah, well, the school bus is involved in that early start.

It's not my choice. And it's just superb. So she's called Kathy Jones. It's called Angry Yoga Lady Sketches. And she delivers, you know, in that kind of intoning yoga voice, just the most scathing kind of popping postules of rage against modern life whilst on the yoga mat. And it's just really, really brilliant.

Jane adds at one point during a class, this is simply entitled Yoga Speak, we were advised to hold the move, breathe out and open our thighs to the universe. You must be bloody joking. Sometimes. Lots of yoga classes are fantastic and I've really enjoyed yoga in my time, but sometimes, Jane. Sometimes. I mean, honestly, how could you? What does the, just give us an idea, what does that mean opening your thighs to the universe? So there's quite, let's we forget, is infinite.

There's quite, there's quite a lot of just, you know, trying to relax, kind of over-relax your body in yoga. Over relaxed. Yeah, so to go beyond that stretch that you would normally do in life. So there's a lot of opening up of the pelvic area involved. And it's a good feeling when you do manage to do it. I'd probably need to go to the lying in hospital, I think. But sometimes the way it's done, it's just too much, kids, it's just too much.

And there's usually, I'm just going to put this out there. I don't think the British man's built for yoga. Fighting talk. Okay, if you're a British man and you do yoga and you think you are built for it, this is the podcast. Take me on.

Actually, I genuinely don't know. I'm very, very ignorant about yoga. What do men wear for yoga? I know because women's yoga wear is in lots of shops that I go into. Well, I mean, I think there's a contestant on traitors who doesn't wear an awful lot when he's posting his yoga positions.

Which one is that? Matthew. I think he's been a little bit of bother, hasn't he? Has he? I've missed that. He's doing some naked headstands. I mean, it can happen. Oh, I've just had a subversion of him. It's not great. Are you watching, Traces?

Well, I kind of haven't caught up with it. I must admit, I've slightly, I've knocked it on the head a bit. Okay, spoiler alert. Go on, then. Spoil me. So please, everybody, go away and come back in a minute. Here she goes. I haven't seen the latest couple of episodes. Fiona, who was the highly entertaining.

Welsh lady. Yes. Oh I liked her? Yeah. You know, very kind of... Garulous. Yes, very charismatic. Yeah, but in a good way. Yeah, yeah. So she was up to some terrible dastardly tricks accusing people of lying and all kinds of things. And she did a very, very good job at the round table and they're going, I'm a faithful, I'm a faithful, I'm a faithful, I don't lie, I'm a faithful. And she's a traitor. And then she stands up at the end and she says, I was doing this for women of a certain age, you know, to prove that our voice is valid. And I just thought, well, that's her own. goal love, isn't it?

It's not valid as it's turned out. You're lying, so and so. Yes, you've proved that you know, by 57, you can definitively tell a fib. I'm not sure about that behaviour, actually, so I'm a bit... Well, I still liked it, because I think from what you've said,

I mean, she's one of those people that goes into a show like that to provide entertainment. She knows what she's there for and she delivered. Oh, and she'll spin off into something fantastic, so it's very good for her to have the visibility, but I just thought, oh, no, we shouldn't be doing that, should we?

But I think the moral of the story is basically never do a naked headstand, handstand. Headstand. Headstand? Yes. Oh, you can do handstand. I can't do all those. No, I could only...

I could do a forward roll, though, never a backward. What about you? I don't know forward roll, never a backward. Yes, I could do a forward roll, never a backboard, but then really weirdly in summing, I can do a backward dive, but I can't really do a tumble turn. Aren't people fascinating? That's major week, hasn't it?

The revelations for us both there. I love. No, I'm as bad as each other. Right, let's be semi-serious just for a moment. Yes, let's change. And bring in Elle, who says, I'm a clinical psychologist, and I've enjoyed hearing your conversation about self-help books.

I agree a lot of them out there perpetuate the idea that we should be striving to be happy all the time. And in my opinion, that is unachievable and just leads to further suffering. But I'm glad you've said that, because plainly it is unachievable, isn't it? However, I do recommend Dr. Julie Smith's self-help books, particularly why has nobody told me this before?

She's a registered clinical psychologist and summarises evidence-based therapy skills in a readable way. I think it's a really helpful way of improving access to psychological tools and supporting people to understand themselves better without having to sit on a waiting list or engage in therapy.

She's got a brilliant Instagram profile as well. Now, a really good friend of mine whose advice I normally hugely value did send me a copy of this a couple of years ago and I didn't, have you ever looked at it? No. I got afraid I didn't think it was all that insightful. Oh my goodness, it's gone in the same box.

Already this morning we've had Pavlova's completely dismissed in office. No, that was a completely private conversation. Hadn't it the movie. No, I said hadn't at the movie. It was better than my book. Marty Supri. I know she's been wildly successful this woman, Dr. Julie

Smith, so I know nothing, but I just didn't feel that it touched you. But is there a self-help book that has? No. Which is why I'm still a basket case. They well be the problem. Exactly. Have loa, I just can't stand meringue.

Okay. I mean, I think that's an entirely valid. Is it the fact that sometimes When you crunch on it, it's like white chalk on a blackboard. Yeah, I mean, that's just the fact that if you feel like something sweet, have a lump of chocolate, I would never turn to egg white. Yeah, I do hear you on that. I think they're always very seductive.

They lure you in with their appearance, don't they? They look like little snowy peaks, don't they? Then there's that shop in the London town that for a while was famous for doing those huge kind of rippled morangs. They'd have a bit of food colouring running through them. and I remember my kids were just obsessed. They're absolutely obsessed because we'd go past the shop on the bus

on the way to some kind of educational Saturday morning club. Oh, God, you're going. And they made me buy them one once, and they both just spat it out because actually a meringue that big that's been in a shop window that long. Oh, my goodness. It's not good.

It's not good at all. No. I mean, those classes, I'm not going to pretend that my children didn't do similar ventures. But the big win for me, not, was piano lessons. I mean, the two of them, they were lucky enough to have piano lessons. Very fortunate.

They were both absolutely shit. So they could get out. Well, they didn't get me on grade, I think one, failed grade one and said, oh, I'll do grade two. I said, well, what are your chances? You haven't passed grade one. She had a fairly high opinion of herself as an eight-year-old. She thought she'd give it a while.

I knocked it on the head then, Fee. Okay. Do you ever regret that? Because sometimes you've got to push on through to about. grade five before it makes sense. Well, in what sense, what do you mean? How could they possibly have gone to grade five if they couldn't pass grade one? So I think learning the piano is,

A, I think it's way... I'd love to be able to play myself. Way more difficult than learning another instrument because you've got two hands to control, all of that type of stuff. Right. But also, I think it can be incredibly difficult to learn at the beginning, but there is a moment where it really, really comes good. And I think it's almost the opposite with some other instruments. Actually, it gets harder.

There isn't a kind of sweet spot in learning. Okay, because a lot of people who don't come from, I'm thinking about rock bands and pop bands and all those other kinds of combos. Young people, beat combos. A lot of people who take up those instruments are not from middle class backgrounds at all. And they become adept quite early on, for example, the bass guitar. Or am I just talking out of my hands? No, not at all. I think there's genuine, genuine kind of gifted musicality in some people

where they just don't break a drop of sweat at any time when they're first learning, you know, when it gets really difficult, they just don't. But I think for the average musician, and I would say that I was an average musician. Well, because you don't, you've got grade eight. No, I work really, really hard, but I don't, you know, looking back on it, I didn't have that kind of absolute gift of musicality at all. But it definitely, the piano was my stumbling block. So I could do the wind instruments and I found those easy. But the piano, I definitely had to do a couple of grades before it made sense.

What grade did you get on piano? Oh, I think I got to grade six. Oh, she that's what's... Yeah. But then there's just no way that even if I, you know, practiced 23 hours a day, I just wouldn't have got any better. Just wouldn't have got any better. I just couldn't really do it.

But do you ever sit down at a piano now and knock a tune out? I can. Just. I'm really, I think I'd find that incredibly soothing and therapeutic. Yeah, well, why don't you learn? Oh, I suppose I could. You might really, really love it, Jane. Lots of people, you know, take to music in that adult life and surprise themselves.

Wouldn't it be great if I suddenly insisted on coming in entertaining people with my latest performance? I think it would be fabulous. Do you what, there's a piano in our local Oxfam shop, and it's not for sale. They have gigs in the Oxfam shop sometimes. But, you know, you can just sit down and play it if you want to. And it is the most magical thing. I think it's magical.

I love the public performances at, they have it at St. Pancras, and they have it at Euston, actually. And there's one downstairs in London Bridge. There's an organ. Yeah. What? You can play an organ.

Yeah, it's just sitting there waiting for you. I think that's a little bold. I think I'll wait a while before I play the organ. publicly, but who knows? But my question actually was, is the guitar an easier instrument to learn? Is that why so many people

who are not particularly academically gifted can suddenly pick up a guitar and have a hit song? No idea. Well, people will let us know because I'm fascinated by this. Thank you to Sharon, who's in Norwich, but she did have a scouse mother. I'm an only child, she says, and dad was

out of the picture since I was 12. So when mum died, I was 30, It was a bit sudden and traumatic, but we'll save you the details just to get on with the story. It was basically down to me with amazing support from my closest cousin. You know there's quite a lot to do, admin deciding the sort of coffin you're going to have, who's going to be there, who's going to speak.

Anyway, I was asked what sort of music should be played as the coffin came in. Now, my mum loved the three tenors. This was 1999. So I chose and bought a CD to be played at the crematorium, and we were all sitting there in the chapel, me with my aunties, her sisters and the closest family in the front rows.

The ceremony started. Nessam Dorma blaring out, beautiful singing, very moving, very sad. The doors open and as she's brought in as the coffin enters, the music finishes and instantly there's huge applause. Unfortunately, I'd bought a live version of the CD. We all went into complete hysterics.

It was actually perfect for my mum. She should have been an actress. She loved drama. And with that, she had an amazing scour sense of humour, Is there a really bad Scowse sense of humour? No, there isn't. She'd have been laughing her head off along with those of us that knew her best.

I'm not sure what the people at the back thought, but fuck them. After all these years, it's my one main memory of the funeral, laughing hysterically. It was a gift, so Sharon, still in Norwich. Thank you, Sharon. You've got to be careful. We're organising a funeral at the moment.

I have to say, it isn't easy. You try very hard to, get it right, but is there a right way to do a funeral? I'm not sure there is. It's more complicated than I realised. I'm prepared to own that. But there is the satisfaction of knowing that you can't really disappoint the person

to whom the funeral is dedicated. Well, this is very true. And my dear old mum, she simply never acknowledged her own mortality. So I did attempt. So it'll come as a shock to her. She's having a funeral. Well, actually, you've ruined the opening line of the eulogy.

I'm sorry. I have to change it. I'm so sorry. Oh, God. To tear up. No, you're okay. You're okay. I don't think there's a huge crossover of listeners

and people who will be attending the funeral. Well, there's my cousin Peter for a start on. Okay. Hello, Peter. But apart from that, you can't name any others. Okay, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to ruin that at all. Just a couple of quick pieces of admin

and the funeral's still two weeks away, isn't it? Yeah, it is. And that's the other thing. This is a very odd period. It really is. I mean, it's just odd. I can't, there's no other way to describe it. Well, you know what it's like, it's just a bit shit, isn't it?

Yeah. And I would say your point about feeling guilty when you're not thinking about your mum, I think that does dissipate because I think there's just a bit of your head that needs to stop engaging with the guilt. And you do just have to go, well, I mean, I can't change things. No, no, no.

It's got to move forward. but as we said last week that desire that people have to not mention it in case it's difficult we don't want to go there because that's really crazy and also the kind of oh you know

it's fine now oh she's at peace now all of those kind of things if you're still feeling sad they're so annoying do you know what really dawned I mean not unconnected to Hamlet actually I mean which by the way if you are going through

a grieving or God forbid if you've lost a child I was so people who lost a child really think about whether you want you to see that. 100%. I'm so sorry. Oh, what's happened? I just think it took me back to experiences I had at school where fellow pupils did.

Their mothers did die when we were at school. And I'm afraid we just didn't help them because the thinking at that time was. Don't mention it. Not just from us, but actually from the grown-ups. Oh, don't talk about it. Yeah, oh no, definitely. The gaslighting of it.

Oh, bloody hell. Desperate. And for a kid, to, you know, you will never be able to go back and have your childhood again, sorry to say something so obvious. And all of those little steps that you would have needed to be able to take to deal with your grief are different for children than they are for adults. So you're really denying them something so important if you don't let them,

you know, go through all of those stages. So, yeah, I mean, we're in a better place about grief now, undoubtedly. We really are. Undoubtedly. A couple of quick admin things. Karen in Wiltshire, just with reference to the French Bed and Breakfast TV show, the Good Friday Agreement confirmed that people born in Northern Ireland or other residency rules mean that people either automatically qualify or can apply for Irish passports, which is why this couple, Nicola and Roy, should, should, why this couple would have no problem working and living in France. and thank you for all of your suggestions as well

about good sport movies and then there's a fantastic bit at the end from Karen there is a saying when an old person dies it's like a library burning down this is so true it is isn't I've not heard that before have you I haven't and I'm so apt because there are already so for example

I was looking at a photograph the other day and I thought oh I don't know who that person is but I'll ask mum Yeah, and it goes. Oh, I know. No, I can't. So that's miserable. This is from Claire. We're going to end on this.

I think it's lovely. Oh, well, you end on that and then I've just got a tiny, tiny, proper admin PS. Okay. I'm thinking about that dishcloth email you had from a listener this week. I have a thought that pops into my head

all the time from my long since departed nan, Bridey Geagan. I'll let you try to deduct what part of the world she was from. She used to say, and I've long this. Amazing stoke. No. I think not. She used to say,

if you're lucky enough in your life to own your own home, get out there and sweep the front step and be proud to do so. I sweep my steps with pride, says Claire. Brilliant. Not surprised. Excellent.

The ringing out of a dishcloth. I'm not a big fan of the dishcloth, Jane. Do you know what? I was probably into my, I think possibly my fourth decade. Before I realized it was a sensible idea to wash them. regularly.

Yeah. What would you not have dishcloths? So I've got a spongy thing and I don't really have dishcloths, no. No. I just find them they're icky. Well, we've talked about this before because my mum used to boil them with a bit of personal and the smell of the house is just... Office cleaning quote requests.

This comes in from Adriana. I'd like to request cleaning for 20 office rooms totaling 4,509 square foot. Please let me know your availability. If photos or videos of the rooms would be helpful, I can provide those as well. Feel free to reach out if you have any questions. I have no questions, Adriana. I'm too busy.

Jane might be able to do it maybe on Wednesday afternoon. It's very much the 5am club, isn't it that? I mean, there are, of course, I remember one of the first things I noticed when I first came to London was people waiting for the night bus to go in clean offices. Because I'd never seen that before. And I was getting up very early myself, but for a rather easy. a role in life just sitting chatting. But you really notice them.

Totally. But I don't know why that lady thinks that that's our line of country. We are too busy. We've got a radio show to do as well. I've got pets. Jane's got a funeral to arrange. So I'm really sorry, Adrienne. We're currently not available.

We're going to let you down on that one. How did that get to us? I don't know. But sometimes the random things that come into the email inbox are fantastic. And we're just going to bring them to you. So, gosh, that's something to look forward to us. It's a bit like going into my spam, which is fun time. It was 2026.

My spam emails. I'm still being told that there are Russian housewives who want to meet me. Russian housewives? I just don't think they're off. They've given up with the heterosexual angle, and now they thought we'd try everything. I really, really don't think they're off. Anyway, okay, join us tomorrow. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with Jane and Fee.

Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online, on DAB, or on the free Times Radio app. Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury, and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.