Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Drinking neat Campari at midday

Episode Date: August 29, 2023

In the absence of 'wee Fi', Jane G is joined by Jane M, and will only be reading emails from people named Jane this week (just kidding).They discuss holiday surprises, world cup finals and how many Milka bars you can get for twelve euros. Today's guest is Martine Wright MBE, who lost both her legs in the 7/7 bombings in London.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiAssistant Producer: Kate LeeTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I want to say something. Well, how was your holiday then? Oh, yes, it's Jane Mulkerrins. I'm Jane Garvey. That's the other Jane, Jane Mulkerrins. This is of her in the absence of Wee Fee, who's still away because she's not that committed, really. Is she ever coming back?

No, I don't know. Well, they say next week. She'll be managed out. I think, you know, it's been a long time coming. It's been almost a year. Yes, it's been almost a year now. And they've found her out. I knew they would.

No, Fee will be very much welcome back into the fold next week when I'm not here. And Jane, you won't be here either, because Fee is going to be with a couple of showbiz pals. I know. I feel a little bit usurped but you know i'm well i'm actually if i had to stand aside sit aside for anyone i'm glad it's those two okay you see i said i don't want a showbiz pal i want jane mulcahy and that's what i got basically she spent all the budget on those two. And all you could do is get me up from downstairs for free.

You said that, not me. No, so Fee next week is going to be talking, I think on Monday, it's Annika Rice. And then she's got Claire Balding. Claire Balding, Tuesday and Wednesday. And Annika Rice again on Thursday. So Claire finds herself in the unusual position of being the filling in a rice sandwich. In a balding rice. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, she's the balding filling. She's the balding in the rice sandwich. She's a bald filling in a rice sandwich. And Fi will be keeping control. Yeah, I'm just going to watch and learn. It's those three, that holy trinity of broadcasting and glittery showbiz. Come together. Yeah, I'm not sure that should you all be allowed in the same room well they won't be will they just two at a time no it will only

be two at a time because it's just the sheer amount of ego you mean no no i mean it's an issue i mean i was gonna say time you said i think health and safety will be consulted because we've been talking quite a lot about air pollution and there'll certainly be some hot air next week. Do you think, like some of the guests you've had on the show, that they'll ask for a special entrance to the building? Oh, I would have thought there already is a balding entrance to most significant buildings in London.

If not, there will be soon. And plaques. There very much will be soon. That takes me back to the PR who wanted a special entrance for her talent not that long ago. Yes, anyway, let's move that. But back to your holiday. Yes, my holiday.

Yes. Well, it was, I was going to say, I'm very fortunate. It was a very uncomplicated sunshine break. You don't get many of those anymore. No, I mean, nothing went wrong. It was in the Algarve, which is a part of, I think, a very strange gesture on the part of the Portuguese. But they've named a part of their country after my sister, Alison. And it's really nice. And I tried to pose for a hilarious photo in Duty Free on the way back

because it's got a big, big poster at Faro Airport with unforgettable Algarve. So I'd just been to get some big lumps of Milka. You can get three for €12. It's always the last thing I do whenever I leave any foreign part is get the milker. I'm standing there with my milker and I got one of the kids to try to take a picture of me that from a certain angle had me and in the background forgettable garb.

And she did do it and it's not, but it's not nearly funny enough, or I've told the story now, it's not much of a story. A little bit of post-production work needed. So I sent it to a friend, and she sort of dutifully sent the hilarious laughing emoji back. I don't think she really understood why I'd done it. And I sent it to my mum, and she just wrote back, that's nice!

So, yeah, maybe that didn't quite work. Anyway, you tried. I did try and I'm always trying. You're not known for loving travel. No, I don't. So, but you seem as if you had a nice time. Oh, no, because I don't want to do anything once I get there. I'm so relieved when I get there.

We had a very, well, another unforgettable element was that we watched the Women's World Cup final in a bar in the local town on the Sunday morning. And it was a love. There was genuinely a lovely atmosphere. So I've got to be honest, some rather nervous English tourists gathered. We were all so tense, so keyed up. And obviously, we'd all booked the holidays ages ago, long before we knew the date implication. the date implication.

And actually, it was really heartening to get a load of English tourists in a bar in Portugal, keyed up for an English women's football match against Spain. And I've got to be honest with you, I thought it was written in the stars that England were going to win. I didn't really have any doubt

until the match kicked off. Yeah, and then it was quite quick, wasn't it? I was watching it in Madrid. Were you? What was that like? Yeah, and then it was quite quick, wasn't it? I was watching it in Madrid. Were you? Yeah. But what was that like? Yeah, that was amazing as well. Because, yeah, it was a good mix of English people

and Spanish people in this sort of bar restaurant. And the Spanish were just so good. I couldn't, I sort of couldn't complain about the fact that we weren't winning because it was just a brilliant match to watch and they deserved it. They did deserve it. It was heartbreaking. But I managed to, I was drinking neat Campari at midday,

so my heart was less broken than it might have been otherwise. Yeah, I think you deal with things wonderfully well, Jane. You really do. I was saying earlier to my colleagues who may or may not have been listening that we were entertained in the bar

by a man in late middle age. So about the same age as me, let's be honest, who rocked up quite close to kickoff and put himself in a very prominent position in the bar and entertained us with his own, I think he believed, helpful commentary. But there wasn't anyone in that bar who didn't understand the basics, which was that England were in the blue and we had to get the ball in their net it doesn't actually require much more than that but this guy felt the need to do his own commentary was that because you were having to listen in Portuguese and no no we had BBC one oh yeah BBC one we had Gabby and the gang yeah which I love by the way it was it was like a very big screen they had in this bar about 10 times the size of my minute television screen at home, which is much mocked.

Anyway, this geezer turned out to be quite knowledgeable to my fury, but also just annoying. So when Lucy Bronze was fiddle-faddling around in midfield, he said, oh, she's a good player. She's a good player. But too many touches here. Too many touches. Oh, she's going to lose it. She's going to lose it. She's lost it. But too many touches here. Too many touches. Oh, she's going to lose it.

She's going to lose it. She's lost it. They'll score from here. They've scored. And I just thought, oh, God. And actually, the guy was,

his comments were unfailingly accurate throughout the match. Oh, how infuriating. Yeah, which meant you couldn't turn around and say, will you shut up?

You don't know anything because he actually did. But none of us were in the mood to hear it. Someone should have just locked him in the toilets. I know, and actually to my shame, I didn't even see Spain, I didn't stay to see Spain lift the cup. Did you not? No. I mean, you miss an epic

snog, as you know. I know, I mean, and that's the other really pathetic thing that this wonderful thing with you in a bar filled with people in Spain and me in Portugal watching women play sport has been completely overshadowed. By a man who can't keep his hands or his mouth to himself. And he's asked for his bloody mother.

Well, honestly, I do think that... No, Jane, really. I mean, it's a sign of true commitment from a mother. I mean, if there's anything your daughters aren't going through that you don't go on hunger strike for, I mean, you're just not trying hard enough. If either of my children behaved in that way, I would be ashamed, as she should be.

And, of course, now I'm doing the terrible thing of blaming a woman for the antics of a man, which is the thing I always guard against because I don't think you should ever do it. But... It has been absolutely extraordinary. And that was just a plot twist this morning that I just...

Even I couldn't have predicted. It's a classic. It's a brilliantly Spanish plot twist yeah it's gone hunger strike in a church yes watched over by the virgin herself as you go I mean presumably because it'll be a Catholic church won't it so yes yeah so um sad that was sad yeah obviously watching but also brilliant and a happy memory in many ways, actually. Well, I do wonder whether, I mean, it's a horrible situation for the Spanish team, but it is hopefully going to bring about a, they're looking to sack the coach now, finally, because he was applauding, you know, and obviously we know it was half the team resigned,

you know, before the World Cup because of him. Their team must be really good when they've got their best players. They've got two loads of World Cup winning players. But he was probably not going to get sacked because they won. So this, maybe they clear house a bit. Perhaps Spain is finally, maybe accept that such extreme machismo is maybe not acceptable in 2023. But I don't know.

Do you think... Maybe I should moderate my hopes. Oh, yeah, I think you perhaps might have to moderate them. But also perhaps it tells us that we as a country have progressed a bit further. Yeah. Although you look at the comments some people are still capable of making and I'm not entirely convinced of that. But anyway...

I don't think I've ever heard false feminism used in this country in my lifetime. still capable of making and I'm not entirely convinced of that. But anyway... I don't think I've ever heard false feminism used in this country in my lifetime. So I think we are perhaps... We could be pleased that we're a little bit further ahead. What has been really great is I think the way the England team have conducted themselves around this has been as classy as everything else they've done.

And I think that's really very important that we note it. They've actually come out and said, well, Spain, they won and we should congratulate them for it. And we shouldn't be talking about this. I think they've been brilliant. They've been absolutely gracious every step of the way, haven't they? Yeah. My big concern now is I checked online to see whether Mary Earps was the favourite for

Sports Personality of the Year. And she's up there. But the current favourite is a man. I think we can definitely do something about that between the two of us. Well, basically, it calls for every single right-thinking woman and man to take to the voting on the night of the Sports Personality of the Year.

Vote 150 times if you have to, to make sure that she wins. Yeah. I mean, obviously, ask your mum and dad before you make the phone calls. Oh, sorry, I will. I will ask my mum and dad, yeah. But vote 150 times. You're very sensible. Thank you for putting me back on the straight and narrow. And our guest today in our fair is such a, just, I mean,

remarkable is an overused adjective, but Martine Wright is a survivor of the 7-7 bombings. She was the most seriously injured woman to survive that terrorist attack on that unforgettable, terrible day in the July of 2005. And she'll just talk to us, or talk to me rather, about what her recovery has been like and about her attitude to life, which I've got to say is impeccable. And if, I mean, we all have days where we just think, oh, woe is me. Well, you know, half an hour listening to Martine Wright and you may think slightly differently.

So that's a little bit later. But thank you very much for all the emails that have come in to janeandfeeattimes.radio. And I just want you to, what do you think about this, Jane? I'm just going to throw this one at you. I don't know if you saw this. This is about the holiday encounter on a plane. Yeah.

You see this? I did see that. We'll keep it anonymous just in case. But there's no real reason to, but we don't need to mention your name. But thank you for this story. Last Thursday, I returned with my family from our annual holiday to Greece. We boarded our busy early evening BA flight at Athens and made our way slowly down the crowded aisle.

When what should I see crouched furtively in the window seat of the very last row right next to the loose in economy. He's a chief scout, isn't he? But the tousled blonde head of someone familiar. It can't be. But when I look closer, other elements of a familiar cast assembled like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. Carrie, Wilf, more small children, a nanny, many large toys and then some beefy blank-faced minders. I think that's possibly a little bit unfair. I mean, they're at work. They're not supposed to be enjoying themselves those guys, sitting in the wafts of jays fluid cheap seats that no one ever wants to occupy. I thought it absolutely cannot be but it was. The pilot then made the unwelcome announcement that we'd not be taking off for at least 90

minutes owing to thunderstorms across Europe which in the circumstances seemed apt, says our correspondent. The children became fractious, tensions rose and the queues for the loose lengthened, while the blonde head stayed resolutely bent out of sight for two long hours. Eventually, the flight took off and as darkness fell at 36,000 feet, I was suddenly gripped by the determination that I couldn't let this unexpected opportunity pass. So I unbuckled my belt, walked down the plane, called out, Mr Johnson! And when he finally looked up, uttered the three small words I'd long harboured but never thought I'd get the chance to deliver.

What would your three words to Mr Johnson be? I know it's only the podcast and not live radio, but I don't think I can say them even off air on air. Our correspondent had long harboured the desire to shout shame on you at him, which was what she did. He made a blustered attempt at a reply, but I just turned and walked back to my seat. Job done and a small victory for one raging grandmother. And it felt absolutely bloody marvellous. raging grandmother and it felt absolutely bloody marvellous. Do any of your other summer holiday returners have tales of unexpected delights? Asks that listener. Well, you've thrown down the gauntlet there. I have to confess that I did see our former Prime Minister and his now wife

at the final of the Euros 2020 and I might have accidentally made a gesture in their direction. Okay. Maybe. Just a wave? Yeah. It was a special wave. A special Jane Mulkerin's wave, as it's known.

It was just an involuntary reaction. You know, we'd recently scored that first goal. Yeah. And I wanted to just make sure Boris had seen it. All right. Okay. Okay. thank you very much for that um it's interesting i i hugely admire the actions of that individual and it's quite a classy way to behave very classy didn't say anything offensive no and it was aimed at him rather than the family who absolutely don't deserve any of that that's their you know their private citizen surprise although i think carrie Carrie Johnson does put the kiddies out

on the Insta, doesn't she? Although you don't see their faces, to be fair. It's lots of kind of bucolic idyll images, which, but that's her decision. A lot of towel hair. Yes, all of that.

So I guess you could argue that she's making herself a little bit more public than perhaps some of us might. But I do think that's a good thing to do. Just get out of your system. I just bet she had the best holiday.

Well, it sounds like it. What a way to end it. Absolutely. I suppose we can't get at him for being an economy because if he'd been in... First class. Then we'd have had a view on... I just really liked that he was right by the loos.

Yes. Although, to be honest, I was on EasyJet and I was very close to the lavatories as well yeah because i don't really understand how you choose your seat so i just take whatever they give me and it's usually the loo and it's usually right at the back by the loo but anyway i don't care uh so the big thing great thing about a hotel was i'll just say this one thing about it uh was that every afternoon there'd be a poolside snack provided by the staff.

Oh, how lovely. And it was wonderful because it was different every day. So one day it was a fruit kebab. The next day, mini cornetto. Oh. Only mini. And then a custard tart

because it was Portugal. And then a doughnut. And that was the day that we got the doughnut, I thought it was going to be a custard tart again and no because i wanted a donut uh and so when it came and i i said to my kids there ought to be a word to describe there probably is in german a word to describe how you feel when you think you're getting a custard tart but you end up with a donut i don't know what that word would be but somebody somewhere

will be able to come up we've definitely got correspondents in germany who would know the answer yeah um and what time was this well this is the interesting thing because it used to come anywhere between 4 20 and 4 45. you wouldn't want to nip for a shower would you we didn't fit no we didn't we didn't go in the pool. We didn't move. Because there's something about, it doesn't matter who you are or where you are, there's something about the thrill of getting something for free.

Absolutely. It just knocks your socks off. Yeah. Bonus courses, as my friend calls them. Absolutely. You know, when you're at your restaurant and, you know, just get a little amuse-bouche. Yes.

They're the best bits. A scotch egg. Yeah. That's an amuse-bouche. Depends on the size. Well, I don't know. I just don't think it is. I fight a battle in every hotel I get to,

because I do like the old breakfast buffet, and you heat your plate up and you think, I won't need anything now until dinner. And then you see other people eating chips and a toasty at three o'clock, and you think, well, I may as well. It seems silly not to, really. Anyway, I had a lovely time. That was a long answer, wasn't it? I like the sound. Is there a Portuguese name for that little afternoon snack?

I don't think so. But again, there might be. Is there like an Italian sort of aperitivo? Perhaps there is. Portugal is one of those places that we, I mean, we go on holiday, but to my shame, I don't know very much about Portugal. I remember learning in history that it was england's longest serving ally yeah i mean they were very good at slavery and trade like we were oh you know us them and the dutch right pretty much you know three-way world cup tie for the best at slavery and trading right So it's something to be proud of. Well, it's not, is it?

No. But it is a country that I'm afraid I don't know enough about, but I do like visiting a lot. So I know a lot of people who've moved there in recent years because they've got a really sort of positive attitude towards economic migration now. So they give you these golden visas that you can go and get and live in Lisbon and go surfing in the morning and then just, you know, do your remote working in the afternoon.

Apparently Lisbon is a massive hotspot for remote working, isn't it? Because of the proximity of a beach. Yes, it is a lovely city, Lisbon. And they've also just made a real point of getting people to go and invest there because, you know, it wasn't very wealthy for a long time. So lots of my friends have moved from Berlin, Ibiza, places like that to Portugal so it's definitely on the up. Right well I mean and now I mean if they can give out free donuts. They're circulating with a basket of free donuts then they're doing all right. Right and what email has attracted your attention? So this is from a correspondent in the US she says as a Brit living in the US and not just in the US,

but in the South, I often think to write in and comment on the topics you discuss, but then life gets in the way and I feel like you've probably moved on. However, apropos of nothing, which I always think is the best reason, she said she feels the need to ask for our least favourite word. So, the correspondent says hers is fine. How your meal fine did you have a good journey it was fine did you enjoy that day out i arranged for your birthday at great expense it was fine she says is it just me or is this the most insulting response to any question one might ask i feel the only appropriate use of the word fine is when you asked how your flight was because let's be honest if it wasn't fine it was absolutely awful um i my dad is terrible for using the word fine i am too oh it's just i just moved

house to a really lovely new flat that's taken a year to sort out in a in a brilliant location by the sea and and he came to help me move in and said yeah i think it's fine. Don't you think that the word fine has changed its meaning over the years? Yeah. Because it did mean, I mean, fine is a wonderful. Yes, absolutely. It's a wonderful concept. And it's now come to mean all right. Yeah.

Which I'm sure it wasn't supposed to mean. It's a weird one that, but I think our correspondent is right. She's spot on. I must stop saying it. I also to mean that. No. It's a weird one, that, but I think our correspondent is right. She's spot on, yeah. I must stop saying it. I also want to ask our correspondent, as a Brit living in the US, how she gets on with quite, which I think is also a bit of a complicated one because when I lived there, it took me a very long time to realise when they said quite, they meant very, and I just took it as not very.

So when people say, oh, this lovely dinner that you've spent hours slaving over it's quite nice oh you look quite good I just I mean I used to get very very huffy about it until I realized they meant very right complicated it is separated by a common language yeah no well completely but that is a really interesting point. I'm going to stop saying it. It's a way to end a query, isn't it? Because if somebody does say, how are you? And you tell them, fine, that's it. Yeah, because they don't really want to know, do they? I'm still laughing about the fact that Matt Chorley told me today that he cuts his own hair. I thought, well, yes.

That's fine. I mean, I've added him to my list. Steve Wright does his own dentistry. Matt Chorley cuts his own hair. I mean, I can't imagine that anybody else would take... How did he do the back bit? He wasn't very specific. I mean, it was all in a conversation that was mainly about his book,

which did look rather good, by the way. Yeah. Slightly to my annoyance. I must get rid of the jealousy thing, but I can't. You've got a book. Yeah, but his is a really nice looking book and it'll probably sell loads. But you don't cut your own hair, so.

No, somebody else takes responsibility for this. Debbie doesn't listen, so that's all right. I can mention her. Erin says, I expect the topic of the Women's World Cup will come up at some point and I wanted to share some of my musings with you. I wish people would stop comparing the Women's World Cup will come up at some point. And I wanted to share some of my musings with you. I wish people would stop comparing the Women's World Cup with the men's. You can't.

As a woman who enjoyed a lot of sport as a child and an adult, ran sports clubs and have four now adult children who all enjoy sport. I am a fan of almost all sports. However, the Men's World Cup and the Women's World Cup are completely different. I don't think there are many women who would say that women's teams are as strong or as fast as the men's, nor could they beat the men. However, that doesn't mean that we can't celebrate their achievements equally. We wouldn't hold Zarnel Hughes in higher regard than Dina Asher-Smith, just because he is faster and stronger. However, we can compare some elements of the men's and women's competitions.

When Spain won, not for one minute did I start to worry about the reaction of the fans and whether or not there would be trouble. This is always... Good point. Yes, such a good point. Really good point. This is always my first thought after every England men's game. And two, women can be themselves in women's football

if they are LGBTQ+. Nobody seems to care. And this is still not the case for men. Another really, really good point. I asked Beth Mead about that when I interviewed her last year. Did you? Yeah, because there are very many openly gay women. I think it's another great thing about the team.

Absolutely. And she just said, nobody cares. You know, we've always been open. From the beginning, they were open about their sexuality. And it's just that homophobia just isn't endemic in the women's game like it is in the men's. Well, I don't think it's endemic in women, is it? No, no. In truth?

I mean, I think that's the wider thing. And it's quite an odd conversation that isn't actually had that often. That I don't know whether, I i mean i've tried to investigate this as a topic because i do think it's fascinating why is it that men are so concerned about the possibility that somebody else might consider them gay or somebody gay might quote fancy them yeah or just that they're sharing a changing room with somebody who's homosexual chances are they won't fancy you by the way so don't worry about it um and women don't care as much what is the dip what is the difference i don't know somebody will have a

thought on that no uh jane and fee at times dot radio it should be jane and jane but they haven't got the money to change it this week so and it's nice to include fee in the whole thing well speaking of which yes there is an email here that i'm going to leave for her for next week because i don't it's it's from the art of stella who's the lady who used to be a stripper yeah i know whose story fee wanted to know more about yeah and i want to say thank you to the listener for writing in and i'm i would love to read it but i think it's fees it's fees to read when she's back next week should we file it away we'll fight away yeah i'll give it because i think it's a good one she's given more information i don't file it away with Kate? We'll file it away. Yeah. Because I think it's a good one. She's given more information. I don't want to read it because I want to hear it from Fi.

Yeah. Oh, a book, by the way, if anyone's looking for a book, a banker book to take on holiday, have you read Shrines of Gayety by Kate Atkinson? No. I do love a bit of Kate Atkinson. Well, I do like her, but I find I have to concentrate. And so to my shame, I

often don't read her while I'm sort of going about my general business, but I do take her on holiday. And that's such a good book. So it's a strong recommend. It's set in Soho in 1926. And it's astonishing how little has changed. So you've got police corruption, drug problems and any number of different sorts of club and nightlife activity. It's such a good book. So there you go. On a slightly related topic, I will read out this podcast, this podcast, this email on the podcast. Dear Jane and Fee, I've been a yoga teacher for many years, so I've worked with the pelvic floor a lot.

Proud boast. Here's a fun way of thinking about it says our listener imagine you have a miniature lift in the vagina between your legs inside your body this is that you can't stop doing it as soon as you start mentioning i know so breathe in and imagine the lift door opening people coming in oh my god chance to be a five and the door closing tightening the pelvic floor holding the door closed on your breath hang on out the lift goes up to the first floor repeat as many floors as you want on the last floor let all the people out on the breath in and out on the breath out relax all the muscles and let the lift drop to the ground floor okay well i'm so much better

off than i was about 90 seconds ago and if like producer rosie you're really scared of lifts i don't know what you do and often i mean lifts do seem to be the sort of thing that malfunctions on a quite regular basis. And also has a limited capacity. So you can't let all the people in. Let's bring into the conversation another Jane. There's three of us now. It's getting crowded in here.

Jane says, I'm a 57-year-old gardener. Nothing wrong with that. And I listen to your podcast whilst gardening in my various clients' gardens. I quite often laugh out loud to your observations and quips on life. And sometimes I find myself saying yes in response. I'm writing today whilst in the car on my way to Heathrow Airport from North Devon with my husband and 21-year-old daughter. We are embarking on a family active holiday in Andorra. That's exactly the opposite holiday to the one I just had. It involves, says Jane, walking, cycling and whitewater rafting. It's your absolute idea

of hell, isn't it? That's my idea of a nightmare. That's your room 101 holiday. Oh my god. I mean, don't know whether anybody comes around with a basket of mini doughnuts in Andorra. Not in a whitewater raft. I wouldn't have thought so. As we sat on the drive, my husband remarked that I'd been particularly naggy and staccato over the last couple of days leading up to our departure. Oh, Jane, I hope you haven't upset him. I thought maybe this is because I'd booked the trip, organised accommodation at Heathrow for the night before, arranged for neighbours to look after the sheep, ducks, chickens and cats. This morning I took the dog to the kennels, I've taken the kitten to the vets for its timely second vaccinations, I've come home,

mucked the chickens out, de-pooed the garden so aforesaid neighbours don't tread on anything nasty, filled up the paddling pool for the ducks, did last minute ironing, cleared out the fridge, made lunch, ran the hoover over downstairs and cleaned the sink. A holiday already, isn't it? My daughter exercised a neighbour's horse, was asked to check the water containers for the sheep but didn't want to deep-boo the garden, watched telly and cuddled the kitten and then asked when lunch would be ready. My husband took one of his bikes to the bike shop to have new wheels fitted went to a garden machinery shop to look at something we're not buying and then filled the car with petrol and then packed yeah i mean that's the difference yeah jane we these two janes we

send you positive thoughts and i you won't be relaxing in andorra but then that's not the holiday you wanted no i hope you're enjoying yourself anyway. Honestly, how does she put up with anything like... I mean, the thing is, I've been there and it's crap. So just tell them. Well, actually, she's got her revenge by telling us, hasn't she? Exactly. Hi, Fee and Jane.

Controversial topic here. Trigger warning. Hand cream. It took years for my friends and family to take the hints that i as a hard-working gardener love to receive hand cream on my birthday so please can you cancel your assertion immediately that hand cream is a poor choice of gift our listener margo the gardener another gardener says socks hand cream homemade chutney all very welcome here um i have to say i don't love hand cream but that's because I can't type for about 40 minutes

after I've applied any. Because it's like slimy. And obviously I have to type constantly, otherwise I get ejected like fever in the building. Yes. But all other sort of moisturising unguents, I love. I say unguent again. Unguent.

I am in a bizarre... I'm not sure that's how you meant to say it. No, no, because I have been prescribed the wonderful product Unguentum Merck, which is a brilliant emollient. I think that's right. Kate's nodding, so perhaps she gets it too. It's getting a bit personal. But anyway, it's and I once in a bizarre set of circumstances got lost in their German factory complex.

Were you trying to find Andorra? Well, yeah, I was. I was actually whitewater rafting at the time, representing Team GB. And somehow found myself holed up in the Ungwentemmerk farmer plant near a place called Darmstadt. Oh, I've been to Darmstadt, twinned with Chesterfield where I grew up. Went on German exchange there. This is so weird.

So you went to Darmstadt. It's a lovely town. It is a nice town. Very nice town. Yes. Never went to the factory, though. Missed out there. I appeared in the local newspaper.

Did you? No. Oh. No. That's a shame. It is a shame. They actually came to take a photograph of me because I was broadcasting for the BBC from there.

From the factory? In one of the very first because I was broadcasting for the BBC from there. Manufacturing. In one of the very first, it was quite new technology at the time, this was back in the 1990s, portable satellites were quite new. Oh, yeah. And the BBC must have had, I don't know, money to burn, but for reasons I just don't understand, they sent me and three others off to Germany with an engineer and a mobile satellite

and just told us to sort of talk about things. So why Darmstadt? I don't really know. I think they were just, you know, let's go to a foreign part. How about Darmstadt? What has it done to deserve it? I honestly can't remember. As good as any other.

But it was obviously a relatively quiet Newsweek in Darmstadt because we did make the local paper. Anyway, let's hear from our big guest today, who is the brilliant Martine Wright. It's a tale really of just resolute determination not to be changed by something that has apparently completely discombobulated your life. Because Martine Wright, completely discombobulated your life because Martine Wright like so many of us in Britain in a really good mood on the morning of July the 7th 2005 because she was commuting to work on the London Underground and as she says in the interview she had a hangover because she'd been out celebrating with her workmates the night before because at lunchtime on the day before

Britain London had been given the 2012 Olympic Games a moment I will always remember because my sister and I decided we'd ring each other and wait for the announcement so she rang me and I had the radio on and she had the radio on and we were just so chuffed because we all thought Paris were going to get it and they didn't anyway uh and that day I was sent to Stratford bus station to do it. No, it's great to do a programme. Have you not been to Stratford bus station? I have now.

It wasn't like that then. No, well, that was the whole point. So I went to Stratford bus station, did a radio programme from there. And the mood, the giddiness and the optimism was just off the scale. It was fantastic. And then the next day, there was that hideous terrorist attack. Martine Wright was working in London. She's a very proud Londoner,

and she was the most severely injured female survivor of that terrorist attack on the 7th of July. What a remarkable turnaround, though, for her, though. She went on to represent Team GB in the London Paralympics. She married after the terrorist attack. She's got a teenage son now and she'll talk about him and her attitude to him a little bit later in the interview. She is 50 and she's got the MBE and she works as a motivational speaker. She does appear to be a really positive person. So I put it to her that perhaps she had always been this way I suppose I was always glass half full uh I've been told that by friends and family um to say except when I'm at the bar

apparently the one thing that you get away with now Jane and that is when you are in a wheelchair or you've got prosthetic legs you can't possibly go to the bar no you see yeah so I don't actually ask to go and get um drinks anymore um when we go out which is which is you know a bonus there's always a positive that's what I mean always a positive but yes I have always been I believe a glass half full why um I think that might be my upbringing that might be things I had to deal with as a child, as a teenager, experiences I've had, people I've lost, myself. And I think it's just given me an attitude of you've just got to get on with it in life. You've just got to get on with it.

You know, I remember when it first happened, I thought the most important question I had to ask myself was, you know, what was my life now? What was my journey? And I realised that wasn't the most important question. The most important question we all have to ask ourselves when something happens in our life, and I'm sorry to say, good and bad things will happen in everyone's life. The question we need to ask ourselves is what are we going to do about it? And I suppose

that's the way I've led my life, especially after losing my legs in 2005. People who don't remember all the details, Martine, might need to be reminded that you were the worst injured of all the female survivors of that bombing. And your mother could only identify you by your eyebrows. Yeah, which, Jane, I do. I do look back sometimes. I think, what was I doing with my eyebrows in 2005? back sometimes I think what was I doing with my eyebrows in 2005 um but yeah I I mean joking aside I was the most injured uh female survivor I lost both my legs above the knee apparently I've lost 80 percent of my blood I don't know how anyone can lose 80 percent of their blood and um you know was was resuscitated several several times um and I am only here Jane you know as was resuscitated several times. And I am only here, Jane, you know, as you said,

I am the most injured survivor, but I'm only here as a result of the absolutely selfless acts of people that day. You know, it's one of those days that shows human nature, humankind from the most negative, as in the bomber, to my guardian angel my guardian angel that day was Liz Liz Kenworthy a beautiful off-duty policewoman and I did manage to lose 80% of my blood but she gave me two tourniquets to put around my legs so I know with the amount of blood that I lost if she hadn't given to me and held my hand for an hour and a quarter I was the last person to be got out of the old gate tube because my legs were just mangled in the in the metal and

the the fireman had to had to cut me out so we did go through different experiences and I realized that we are all psychologically affected different from it when I had the opportunity to meet other victims of that day and that was in Royal London Hospital and it was about you know I mean I was in a coma for eight days I wasn't strong enough to go up to any gym physio for a month and I remember about a month later going up to any gym physio for a month. And I remember about a month later going up to this gym physio and seeing other victims, other people that I'd sat next to on the tube, other people that I'd spoken to after the crash of what I thought the crash, obviously it was a bomb, that had happened.

But I remember going into that room and um I remember me thinking you know why why has this happened to me um and I remember thinking that because I'm looking out around this room and saying well that person's lost one arm that person's one lost one ankle or one hand over there. Why have I lost both my legs above the knee? And I was quite angry that day. Well, I think, Martine, sorry to interrupt, but I think people need to hear that. They need to appreciate that you didn't become some sort of saintly figure overnight.

It doesn't work like that. You know, we all know that life doesn't work like that because I believe that all of us, all of us have got many stories to tell. All of us have things that affect us. And it isn't a matter of just getting over it one day and getting on with it. It doesn't work like that.

It is, you know, my life has been completely a roller coaster. Let's say it's been a roller coaster, but for the last 18 years since I've lost my leg, it has been an absolute roller coaster from days when I couldn't even get out of bed. I could not get out of bed. That's my dog Daisy right I couldn't get out of bed because it was like I just can't carry on I can't carry on to to dealing with it and and I think by comparing yourself if there are people out there

that are going through a difficult time at the moment or have in the past or know of someone that is what I found really helpful but very hurtful as well is is comparing myself to people so I did go into that room that day and I compared my physicality compared to people compared to other victims injuries. And I compared, you know, you can't, you know, my, my surgeon tried to, to try to save one of my knees because knees are huge in, in legs and the prosthetic world. And, but she couldn't. So I lost both legs above the knee. And I think that there's something silly

like in the in the UK in a year there's something like 0.01 women double amputees so that's how much chance I had of losing both both my legs um and you know I do think sometimes i'm probably due to win the lottery as a result of of of what happens that day and i'm i'm you know if i could cross my toes jane i would yes okay take your word for it yeah um and so as i said that day i was comparing my physicality but after talking to these victims and after talking to other people and now people share such personal things personal stories with me as a result of remembering what happened that day and I started to talk to these other victims and do you know what I realized that actually psychologically I seemed to be stronger than them psychologically I seemed okay to talk about it you know with with

with with such openness I don't know and for me Jane I know you've interviewed me before and and and I imagine your listens listeners uh uh uh I'll see in the sense of humor I have and that's a big big thing and I think I actually helped other victims through the sense of humor i have and that's a big big thing and i think i actually helped other victims through that sense of humor as well and say look we're we're all together and you might only have one leg you might but a lot of these people that had minor injuries were more psychologically affected i mean you know, there was one lady that couldn't even remember getting on the tube. This is a fellow friend of mine in hospital.

She couldn't even remember getting on the tube. She just blanked it out like that and she lost her arm and I had to tell her how she lost her arm because she was in front of me. And so, yes, so I'm glad that I am being honest about this isn't it isn't life and getting over something traumatic is not you know it doesn't get like that there's lots and lots of ups and downs and it is a roller coaster and as I said this is normal now to me this is life like you know I count myself lucky in many, many ways. But I didn't know this was going to happen to me.

And it's funny because I remember a conversation many, many moons ago. Maybe I was 20, 25, you know, many years before I lost my legs. And I remember sitting down with friends one day and one of our friends was in hospital, thankfully just broken legs. But we did start talking about a wheelchair. And I remember having a conversation with my friends, which was, do you think you would be able to handle life in a wheelchair? And I remember back then, my answer was no. My answer was no, I don't think I would be able to handle life in a wheelchair and I remember back then my answer was no

my answer was no I don't think I would be able to as a 22 year old or 23 year old I was I don't think I would be able to handle myself in in a wheelchair and what I'm trying to illustrate is that things change life is about change and we all change and we all react in different ways you know I'm of a certain age now I've just entered the 50s and my reaction and my experiences are going to be very different to my 20 year old so again you saying you know was you always positive someone asked me that question when I was 22 and I said, you know what, I wouldn't be able to handle it. I would not be able to want to lie in a wheelchair. I'm talking to Martine Wright, one of the most well-known survivors of the terrorist attack in

London on the 7th of July 2005. Martine has a teenage son. so I asked her how what had happened to her impacts on the degree to which she worries about him. Do you know I don't I've just I have just sent my son off he's just come back from Nepal he is only 14 years old and he's had one of these amazing adventures with a world initiative with the school. And he went off and he did a trek and he's helped build a school and seen all these cultures. And I think I just worry about him like other mums and dads worry about him. You know, I sent him off to Nepal.

We had no communication for three three weeks except for a few photos you know and I think all of us have as parents experienced those angst um you know and I'm sure we all experience those angst when he's 18 and then he doesn't come back at one o'clock in the morning. Oh, yeah, well, absolutely. I'm not quite there, Jane. I'm not quite there. No. We all know it's not easy dealing with teenagers. Yeah, but you will be.

But what's so interesting and so impressive about you, Martine, is that you always think about other people. I mean, you've talked about Elizabeth Kenworthy, who was the off-duty policewoman who stuck with you and tried so hard to help you as you waited to be rescued from the wreckage. You've talked about your parents' experience. You've got an ability to see your own story through other people's eyes, which I think must have been a real help to you.

Absolutely. You just summed it up, really. I mean, obviously I quite like talking, so I think I was always going to be vocal about my story. But there's no getting away from the 7th of July 2005 was a huge part in many, many people's lives. A huge, huge event, a memory, a feeling of angst, a feeling of angst a feeling of you know whether it was you know us down there on the tubes on the buses and and fellow victims around us or you know whether it was those emergency services people that day the general public just literally risking their own life to help other people. Or whether it was, I mean, many people share with me,

they were working in London and they didn't know what was happening and they started walking for miles and miles and they couldn't get through to their loved ones and that panic. So I believe everyone has a memory of that day. And unfortunately, in the sad world that we live in, they probably have another memory of that day and unfortunately in the sad world that we live in they probably have another memory of another subsequent attack since but as a result I believe that I have a duty to talk about it and you know you said earlier whether I talk to other victims and

things like that and I do I do talk to other terrorism victims, other terrorism families that have been affected somehow because for me, it was such a big day and I've met so many people whereby their life has been affected by it. And I am sat here and I do love life. And I, yeah, I might have slightly shorter legs. I might have, Jane, what I do have, as I'd like to show off about this,

when I do put my prosthetic legs up, I've got the thinnest ankles in the world, which I always wanted when I had legs. So can I just ask, I mean, your experience on the 7th of July 2005 has taken you to many places. What is the strangest place or the oddest experience you've had

as a direct result of what happened that day? The strangest or oddest experience? Well, I've had quite a few coincidences happen in my life, the strangest and oddest. So, you know, I mean, I've done amazing things, like I had the opportunity to go off and fly planes on my own in South Africa. I was only telling my my great nephew yesterday that we went to a music about blue whales. And I actually saw, you know, I flew over a family of blue whales in South Africa.

You know, you cannot you cannot make that up. But my life has been involved in lots of weird. my life has been involved in lots of weird coincidences and you know what I have taken strength from those weird things that have happened because I believe that I was always meant to make that journey on the 7th of July and as a result of that it has given me strength I don't know whether that is true or not but you know what it's given me a huge amount of of strength to to move on so um weird yeah obviously getting to well number one being on that tube that day and people might not remember but it was the 6th of July that we all found out as Londoners I'm a proud Londoner Bobo got me um that we were going to host the 2012 Paralympics and Olympics there was such such a mood of optimism wasn't there I so remember that

huge huge I mean that was the whole reason why I was late that morning because I'd been celebrating the night before with work colleagues and had a few too many jars you know in in celebration but again weird coincidences it wasn't a coincidence because it was the 7th of July and it was after that day of celebration but the last thing I remember before the explosion happened in that tunnel was reading my paper you couldn't read that newspaper that morning without reading something on the Olympics Paralympics weren't on my radar at that point but i remember going into the tunnel just after liverpool street before the bomb went off and i remember thinking i'll go get

tickets to this this is going to be massive i'm a londoner i've got to get tickets to this and then the explosion happened that's one thing you know then you, even starting training, finally I found volleyball, you know, after a couple of years. And we were based at Roehampton University. Fine. Oh, it's near my hospital. Well, I spent a year there learning to walk. Oh, we get to Roehampton University and we're shown where we're going to be training on the campus. What can you see? about 250 yards in front across the road but my window of my room that i spent a long time in yeah a long time in um you

know whether it's my son being due on the 7th of july you know you can't make them up we've only got one one child and he was remember going to the doctors and it was oh oh yeah he's due on the 7th of you know even down to more recently the people that i have met i met a woman the other week big pharmaceutical company and european manager came over to me and she went martin that was amazing that speech and i said oh thanks so much you know thinking she was giving me feedback and she she went, you talk about that belief. You had that belief that day. And I said, well, I suppose I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And she said, no, darling, no. I was there. I held your hand. And I said, sorry? She went, darling, I was there with the fireman. I work up the roads. I came to all gate chief station and i have medical knowledge and i wanted to help and the fireman oh i get a bit teary talking

the fireman was saying to this lady that there's a lady down um in carriage we've got to get her out it's something about work we've got to get her out We've got to get her out. It's something about, well, we've got to get her out. We've got to get her out. And this is when all secondary devices, they were going to go off. And this woman said, the fireman even believed in you. And when you came up, I held your hand before you went in the ambulance.

And, you know know stuff like that you know again another one completely the other end of the scale six months ago I'm in um another talk and all these people share so much with me I feel so honored but I'm sat there um and the two brothers come up to me uh after and they said we've got something to tell you Martin um and I I said right and and they said yeah we we we're from a family that we have arranged marriages and um in 2008 when we were younger we went up to a friend of a family in Birmingham and we potentially were meeting our future brides or potentially could meet our future brides. And we went to this house where this family were. And my mother said, oh, you know, your two daughters are here.

Where's your son? And this family said, we haven't got a son anymore. He was one of the four. Now, these two gentlemen had been sat in the bomber's family house. And this family, again, Jane, it's funny because you said it now, and I do compare myself to other people or, you know, think of other people and what they're going through. And this family had no life left.

This family were banished from their mosque. So they lost their son, but they lost their own respect within their community. And so as a result, I do think i i do compare myself with other people and i think you know what i'm lucky i'm so lucky i am here i'm lucky because there were 52 people that day that died i'm lucky because i have choices i could do whatever I want in life. And I'm lucky because the opportunities I get to meet people, the stories, the trust that people put in me is, I mean, that's just an inspiration for me every day to get up,

to know that someone can trust me that much. Or maybe I've said something that's that sparked something off in their head and they weren't even thinking about that day um but that's why I'm lucky that's why I'm lucky Jane because I'm talking to you that is Martine Wright and um obviously as you you're here towards the end of that interview what happened to that day is is never that far from her mind. I mean, she talks about it, I suppose, for a living. So it's something she is used to talking about.

But I wonder what one of her motivational talks is like. I bet it's incredibly inspiring. She's clearly still, I mean, how can she not be hugely impacted by what happened to her? And, of course, she'll live with that for the rest of her life. How phenomenal to turn it around. Well, she'll live with that for the rest of her life. But the way she... How phenomenal to turn it around. Well, she just approaches things in a quite fantastic way.

So I was thinking about Darren Frost as well, who we talked to a couple of weeks ago, and he was the remarkable bloke who'd fought off the terrorist on London Bridge with that tusk. I mean, just another truly brilliant person. And, you know, you've interviewed stack loads of celebrities. I've interviewed quite a lot as well. In the end, the best interviewees are people who've just come up

against some extraordinary challenge. Yeah, people who've really risen above everyday challenges and, yeah, I mean, just truly inspirational. Like the word inspiration is used, you know, willy-nilly, but those are truly inspirational people who've just pulled something out that none of us really know whether we have in us until that moment. I mean, I'm pretty certain I don't have it.

You don't know. Well, I think I do, and I don't. I don't know. I mean, I really enjoy talking to her and I hope she's OK. And I know that she is someone who would reach out for help if she found herself needing it but um she is just she is just incredible so thank you Martine uh for talking to me uh really appreciate it and we love hearing your emails as well you don't have to be called Jane although this week it helps uh Jane and they will go to the top of the pile yeah they will so maybe just call yourself

Jane for the week why not Jane and Fee at timestockradio lots of stuff we haven't been able to get to today but we will shoehorn as many emails as we can

into tomorrow's podcast and indeed Thursday's as well and tomorrow the big guest will be Maggie Alfonsi who is an ITV Rugby Union pundit she'll feature I know throughout their coverage of the Men's Rugby Union pundit. She'll feature, I know, throughout their coverage

of the Men's Rugby Union World Cup, which a lot of people care passionately about, which starts in a week or so. England won't be winning the Men's Rugby Union World Cup. Do you shout out for Ireland in these tournaments? No, I know. You should do. I was born in England.

Ireland are much better. I shout out for Ireland if England aren't in it. Well, they won't be in it for long, so you can shout out for Ireland. So that's fine. No, Maggie did win, we should say, the World Cup for the women's team. So she knows a thing or two.

So it'd be interesting to get her take on that. And also, she had lost in a couple of World Cup finals before she won it. So she'll know how the lioness is feeling. Yeah, so she really will. So that's tomorrow. So looking forward to that. Any exciting social plans?

Well, I'm going to my new seaside home this evening. So have you settled in? Yeah, very much, yes. If you are a neighbour of Jane Mulcahy's. Well, you'll have shut me over the weekend when I had people round late if you're a neighbour of mine. That's what I'm saying. And you'd like to write in confidence to me, I can be reached.

And I'm feeling pretty smug about my life choices. I went for a swim in the sea this morning before work. I know. I am quite, no, I'm a bit jealous. Yeah. Even though you don't really believe in swimming? No, I do. I mean, I swam.

Did I swim? I got in the pool. With the donut? Holding it aloft? Do you have a donut holder so it doesn't get wet? It was not a standard-sized donut. It was minute. Well, I'm chuffed because it was a little bit stressful.

It was stressful. It was. As, I think, dealing with any kind of property situation is at the moment. But, yeah, I'm very pleased. It's a longer day. You know, it's a long train journey to and fro, I do a lot of reading and the point is when you get there there's the sea it's great okay I am officially jealous now you can come you can come swimming one morning thanks the spare room that was Jane Malkerins we're back tomorrow um I don't know

when you're listening to this but I hope your life's bearable currently and you can check in with us again whenever you like frankly Maggie Alphonse you're with us on Off Air tomorrow We're bringing the shutters down on another episode of the internationally acclaimed podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe.

But don't forget that you can get another two hours of us every Monday to Thursday afternoon here on Times Radio. We start at 3pm and you can listen for free on your smart speaker. Just shout Play Times Radio at it. You can also get us on DAB Radio in the car or on the Times Radio app whilst you're out and about being extremely busy. And you can follow all our tosh behind the mic and elsewhere on our Instagram account. Just go onto Insta and search for Jane and Fee and give us a follow. So in other words, we're everywhere, aren't we, Jane?

Pretty much everywhere. Thank you for joining us. And we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon.