Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Eyes meeting across a dark room, at Finding Nemo

Episode Date: May 28, 2026

Do you have a plug for a miniature donkey? Please get in touch. Jane and Fi are off for the afternoon, so they’re feeling liberated. They chat barely-there pavements, Noel Edmonds’ farm, fox hay fever, spending sprees, and permission for raspberry trousers. There's no guest today because... there isn't. You can buy tickets for Fringe by the Sea: https://www.fringebythesea.com/off-air-with-jane-fi-and-special-guest-jan-ravens/ Our next book club pick will be a collection of short stories! 'Interpreter of Maladies' is by Jhumpa Lahiri.  You can check out our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@OffAirWithJaneAndFOur new playlist 'Coiled Spring' is up and running: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4tmoCpbp42ae7R1UY8ofzaOur most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And they just roam around outside her house and kind of over to the village green. I just think that, I just think they're adorable. I know. You're not to... Well, no, I just don't think I... Sorry, what are we actually talking about to? Welcome to our world. Welcome. It's Thursday still hot.

It is still hot. Which might be why we find ourselves talking about where you would go to find a miniature donkey. This is because Eve spent the last weekend in the vicinity of the... miniature donkeys? I did, yes. My friend's mum has two miniature donkeys that she walks. Right. I don't know where you'd acquire one, but I would like to find out I'm not sure how they do in Peckham. No, or in East West Kensington. Well, this is the funny thing, though. You think they thrive? I think they would be absolutely

fine. So we're quite narrow-minded in the type of pets that we've allowed to be. become our domesticated favourites. And, you know, people always think if you have a little pig, you're pretentious. George Cleaning got into a lot of bother, didn't he? He had a pet pig for a while. Oh, we haven't heard about that. Has it died? I don't know. He's moved on now. He's a married man.

Yeah, he has. It was definitely, it was ticking some kind of box. Quite what box. But your friend with the miniature donkey, so when you say that she walks them, she puts them on a lead and walks them around, like a dog. Yes, because they have a harness. harness and then they get walked. And I think they do need walking

because they have a little paddock that they stay in. Could I walk my miniature donkey down Rye Lane? Maybe it would be a bit more sensitive to sound that the traffic would get to them. Well, the pollution. I don't know. It's the same for dogs.

Yeah, that's true. I don't know. I think we're only a couple of weeks away from a hipster walking a miniature donkey in Peckham Rye. and likewise I think we're maybe only a nanosecond away from somebody introducing us to their Shetland Pony Pet in Dalston who's probably called, what would the Shetland Pony Pet in Dalston be called?

Reg. Reg. If someone has a miniature donkey plug, let me know. Yeah, very much so. Okay, so that's quite enough of that. Let's get down to it. Just to check serious stuff. You did have your easy grass ripped up, didn't you?

I haven't made that up. Yeah. I think I need to get that done for. Okay. I can't offer to do it. Why not? I had a, well, I didn't actually. I was going to say I had a professional round to take my... No, I was just... I forgot in that story.

Dick and Dom were really not professional. Reminders, of course, the property is still available. What are you going to replace your easy grass with? I mean, there were sort of crazy paving stones. They weren't crazy. They were just dirty. Dirty paving stones underneath. But sometimes I look longingly at the easy grass and think I'd quite like to see those stones again.

I could maybe have them gravelled over. I mean, nothing grows. I mean, when I'll see nothing grows on my easy grass. Although, tragically, some weeds do pop up along the edge. And you really admire them. And you do. I mean, the sheer tenacity, the guts, the courage required there, nature in all its weedy glory.

I mean, let's hear it. Yeah, but it's determined to get through. Power of Mother Earth. there. But anyway, yes, I'm going to have to... Now listen, we've got a message here from Sarah who describes herself as a long-time listener. I've listened to every episode from the very beginning. Was it nine years ago? Gosh, I think it was, wasn't it? She says, you've got me through some serious family health issues. Plus, a first-class degree at the age of nearly 52. I'm 56 now. Congratulations. And clapping around the microphone like Steve Wright. Yes. How fantastic. Truly fantastic,

Sarah. Well done. Fee, though, she has a question for you. Were you on deal sea front on bank holiday Monday. I did try to email last night, but I'd had a few too many wines and pimms. Well, no wonder you didn't get around to emailing. I was waddling home in flip-flops with hot, puffy, painful feet and thought I saw you. As I went past, I thought, well, what if it is you? So I turned around and waddled all the way back, even though my feet were really killing me. I shouted fee, but he didn't turn around, so I gave up and headed home again. If it was you, I was the woman who kept dropping her AirPods and bending over awkward to stop myself from toppling.

Probably too late now, but I did think I'd ask. Sarah, thank you. She sends much love to us both. Was it you? In deal or no deal? Oh, that's good. It was no deal. She wasn't there, Sarah.

It wasn't that. Thanks, Eve. I didn't see that coming. That was good. No, I wasn't in deal. Is he still in New Zealand? He is. No.

He's gone very, very quiet. He's actually he had a terrible time, didn't he? because what was it called? I think he, was it new crinkly bottom? What did he call his farm? Uncrinkle my bottom. Smooth bottom. My bottom's crinkled.

Well, I mean, I could speak for all of us there, obviously. Right, go on. Sorry, Eve, let's get her on to that. The farm and surrounding wellness areas and spas and strange stone monuments, they had a terrible, terrible flood, which completely knocked the business. out and very little has been heard from Noel since so he's all right yeah but I think his business and what was definitely a kind of play to do a Clarkson's farm seems to have come to a grinding

halt and you know that's the downside isn't it I did watch that that little series that he did and the scenery was so beautiful and majestic and you kind of think yeah the upside is you get to and look at all of that. The downside is its nature in its majestic, brutal form, and it might come for you, which obviously it did. I wasn't in deal. No, I'm afraid I was very much Swindon bound and then Dolston bound.

So it wasn't me. But we were discussing this email, weren't we, yesterday? And we were saying the funny thing would be if you could then see a photograph of the person that I was mistaken for, because in fact if it was a chunky 72-year-old man and you've definitely had one too many bimms and wine. To be clear, our correspondent does acknowledge that she'd had a few,

perhaps I'm going to say too many burpees and in the heat, as we know, not a good combination. No, but can we also just say, if anyone did shout across a crowded road or whatever, whatever state you're in, I'd always say hello. I'd never do... Have you ever been blank? Well, we used to get blank by Hugh Edwards, didn't we? Well, that ended up.

It's been blank by all the best people. Yes, Eve. It was called Riverhaven, which is not about farming. And it remains closed. Oh, well, I feel for Noel, because he employed lots of local people who said, this is a wonderful thing to have arrived in our neighbourhood. No, absolutely feel for him.

And certainly for the people who work for him, that's absolutely not a laughing matter. Did you find yourself, because I did, watching Richard Madeley in the world, toughest prison on Channel 5 last night. No, I'm at absolutely the wrong day in my cycle. Well, I tell you, it was, I was watching, I was half watching the Crystal Palace.

Which league was it, final? Europa League, I'm very uneasy. I think it is the Champions League. I don't know. Well, anyway, and congratulations to them, they won, and I know a couple of Crystal Palace fans, so I wanted to keep an eye on that, but it didn't really hold my attention.

So over on Channel 5 was a much publicised Richard Madeley documentary about this honestly if he he couldn't believe it I couldn't believe it watching it I think it's loosely described as the world's toughest prison

it's I think it's called Seacott in El Salvador there is a dictator in El Salvador who has cracked down on what was a truly terrible terrible murder rate I had no idea

just how violent that society was and he's made huge strides this individual in improving things for the majority of the people of El Salvador. But by God, he's done it in the most extraordinary way by packing thousands of former gang members into this prison about an hour and a half, I think, outside the capital. So I've seen photographs from that jail. It's where men are shackled and sitting cross-legged. Or shaven-headed. All in a room, like up to 500 of them packed together.

They're not allowed to read. They have nothing to do. They're allowed out, I think, for about half an hour a day. It is, I can't even begin to describe it, actually. And Richard Maly did do his best in attempting to describe it to viewers. In a way, he didn't need to say anything. You could just see it. And he does, I mean, look, he has his knockers, Richard.

But I actually thought, well, first of all, hats off to you and your team for getting access to this place. And he did acknowledge the ambivalence. You know, it's worked. It's a truly vile institution. But what happens if, you know, one in ten people are wrongly in that prison? Well, there's that. And also they're staying there for the rest of their lives.

Now, okay, does that mean that 85, 90-year-old men? They're still going to be shaven-headed, locked in these rooms, with the light on 24 hours a day for the rest of that. Are we serious? Are they serious? I don't know. But worth the look, though, if you can catch up with that documentary on Channel 5. crossed last night but it'll be available it's weird

no that does sound very weird I tried to stick it out with your recommendation of two weeks in August and I mean I think it's it's brilliantly made it's brilliantly cast it looks glorious and like that's a butt coming I can't do that Jane that's too

it's too realistic and I have I've never been on a holiday like that where you know infidelities have been committed and we've taken mushrooms and all that type of stuff I'm not just not that kind of a girl. No, no, well, I'm not either. I just don't know why people do that kind of thing. Do you know, I'm sounding really pompous here? I did think it was weird when there were young children there. I thought, the idea that I would... I was just about to say, I was on the,

I was finding myself to be super anxious thinking the nanny's not looking after the kids. Yeah. You've got an open pool. Yeah. You've got cliff tops. I just, I just thought I cannot watch this. Don't get off your head. Because everybody who's done early years childcare on holiday knows that the swimming pool looks glorious in the brochure, you get there and you think, okay, this is like maximum, maximum supervision. Everything turns into a potential hazard. And there is something as well about not having enough to fill your days with where you just fill it with worry about are the kids too hot, too colds, is so and so annoying me, are they annoying him? Am I annoying her? Am I annoying that? I just can't, I just can't watch this in a way. You want to keep numbers at a minimum, don't you really?

particularly with small children on holiday I do remember a group holiday with very small children and lots of couples whose marriages were in various states of decay it wasn't easy people anyway I will probably go back to it

but you're making it sound a very fraseling experience perhaps not for me well I think other people just have maybe a stronger disposition yeah UA for Conference League oh well done anyway congratulations to them seriously we like British triumphs and that was one last night

and come on the Arsenal. I don't think they'll win actually on Saturday. All the very best to North London team, Arsenal. Has Jane's local fox taken on her hay fever in a Dorian grey picture in the attic fashion? Her affliction has ceased as the foxes has begun. Coincidence may be not, says Sean in Catrum. I don't have hay fever, Sean. That's fee.

Yeah. And how are you? No, it's not great at the moment. And in fact, Hannah on our team is suffering as well. And there's something quite weird in this building because usually mine is so much better when I'm indoors but somehow in this building I don't know whether it's the aircon circulating it or whatever but my eyes are more streaming and itchy here than they are in my house which is a bit weird

oh gosh whereas I prefer it here to being at home which is why I'm spending most days here now luxuriating in the air conditioning do you think that they could make you up a little camp bed just in the corner of the newsroom Sean carries on my former baron used to answer inquiries about what he was doing at the weekend with the words, I'm going to fucking Barnes. We knew then that he was contemplating a visit to his in-laws. Your discussion had me adding that epithet in my head, as I always do whenever I hear mention of Barnes. Right, well, I'm sure his in-laws, I mean, that's just his view of his in-laws. I'm sure they were absolutely delightful that just probably couldn't stand him.

Lois sends this about the Elizabeth Strout fan club. I just had to write in to say, I couldn't agree more with Jane's love of Elizabeth Strout. Would you like me to just stop that sentence early? I really like the book. Just finish with I couldn't agree more. Great. Every book of hers I've read has left me with a feeling I can't properly articulate.

It's a kind of happy sadness in the miracle mystery and universality of human lives and relationships. I'm currently reading the things we never say. I agree it is wonderful, but it is hard to explain why. When I was younger, I always thought I wanted to be. be a writer when I grew up, but somewhere along the way that seemed impractical and was put aside for a law degree and the prescribed professional steps that follow thereafter. I am a very lucky person, though, to have had the opportunities I've had and do enjoy my work as an employment lawyer,

but the idea of being a writer hasn't really left me. I'm also a newish parent to an 18-month-old, congratulations. I think having my daughter made me think more about my old ambition. When I think of encouraging her in the future to do what she loves. I don't want that to be hypocritical. I want to be able to tell her I tried at least to be a writer. So here we go. As a result, I'm currently doing an online creative writing course with Strathclyde University as a place to start.

This has been a brilliant way to actually make myself sit down and write. A deadline helps. As part of a recent exercise, we were asked to write down what makes a good story. One of mine was when characters say, think or do things you as a reader have thought or experienced, but have never heard said by anybody else or seen written down before. I think Elizabeth Strout does this brilliantly, and as you pointed out, the title of the recent book makes that clear. P.S., it's a secret ambition of mine that I'll become a successful novelist and be invited on your show to talk about how I left my boring day job to become a writer,

so maybe I will meet you one day on that basis. Good to have a goal anyway. Well, Lois, when you do, it's not an if, it's when, then we'll be delighted to book you. It makes Eve's joby. if we just book these people as we go along. So let's put Lewis in for... For 18 months time. I think so. But also, good on you, because having an 18-month-old daughter, that's a busy old time in your life. But I do think sometimes, Jane, it is an opportunity

to throw the balls up in the air and catch the ones that you can, let the other ones fall. Don't dismiss your work as an employment lawyer, though. I mean, for a start, never mind you meeting us, we might need to meet you. That's very true. What's a good point. So please. Has something happened?

No. Eve, has something happened? No, it hasn't. Has that folder finally made it over from the BBC? I'm so sorry. It's been lovely. Folder. I think you mean file. I think I mean box. Whatever.

Actually, I see John Humphreys has given an interview to The Times. Have you read it? I haven't. What's in it? Well, I just suggest you have a look. He does actually talk about the charity that he founded and the amount of money he's given to it. So it's on the times.com fee. It's on message of Andy.

Is that another one that I'm going to have to read on a different day of my cycle? Don't pretend you've got a sign. You've got a bike somewhere, I know that. But I don't think. No, actually, you probably will need to read it. But it's, look, you know, great broadcaster. Oh, my God. Let's move on to Adam.

Hello, Adam. Your discussion today reminded me of Bill Bryson's dry observation. He was actually, dry observation in his book. He's still alive. But he's no longer giving us the benefit of his broadcasting skills. Apparently he's still jogging round what I know to be our local park every morning. Well, now's your chance. He's 82.

Now's your chance. I'm not in the park. There was always such a, such a free song. between you two. I once went to see Finding Nemo with him. Did you? Which is really weird. But only because we were both in the queue

at the local cinema with our children who were the same age. Oh, life can be funny, can't it? Right. Not a good film, by the way, Finding Nemo. Well, I think it's a bit dory, just forget about it. Adam says, Eve's only laughing because she's going on holiday.

Adam says, your discussion today reminded me, we were talking about post offices of Bill Bryson's dry, observation in his book, notes from a small island, which I think I did read. I think I might re-read that. That sounds like a nice book to just delve into in the heat. He talked in the book of a peculiar English custom where post offices are always 10 service counters of which only three are ever operating, except at lunchtime when only one is open. I mean, that is so true. I don't know if it's still true, but it used to be, certainly. To be fair, it's very similar here in Australia.

and I suspect your French listeners would be delighted if they could access any kind of post office at all during lunch. Yes, that's true, because the French, I think, on the whole, still stick to... Are you all right? Still stick to very rigid lunch times, don't they? Well, they've got things to do, haven't they? Yo-ho, yo, yo, yo, I don't know my God's sake. I really would love to hear from people in Australia and other hot countries

about how you cope. I know that we do get emails, we've got emails during the course of our winter saying, look, it's 40 degrees here in Sydney today and it's bloody awful. But honestly, Fia, I felt so unmotivated in the last week. I can barely do anything. And I'm not exactly a grafter at the best of times, but this is intolerable. But it is all about infrastructure. So, you know, hot countries who don't have these heat bumps,

they just have air conditioning. So in, you know, in Hong Kong, you would, you would, in any 24, hour period if you were working or you were in school in the heat of their very, very humid summers, I think most people are only spending about 20 minutes in that heat. You go from an air-conditioned flat to an air-conditioned bus, even the smallest buses are air-conditioned. It does, yep. And then you go to a heavily air-conditioned office, so heavily air-conditioned, you probably have to take a jumper with you. So, you know, it's just much, much more than that. thought through and it just has to be. And actually the underground system in Hong Kong, the mass transit,

when it arrived, was a thing of just extraordinary beauty and wonder. Because, you know, for a population that size in a tiny place is so much more efficient for everybody to be disappearing underground. If you think of, you know, all of those hundreds of thousands of people trying to get to work above ground and you couldn't walk and nobody's going to cycle. You couldn't walk. You couldn't walk. because you couldn't walk. Too hot. Too hot, no pavements, yeah. No pavements. Well, just, I mean, like in many countries with heat, you don't build a pavement because nobody's out walking. I mean, there are pavements, but if you live the other side of the island, you wouldn't be able to walk gently round it on a pedestrianised area.

In the States, the pavement is barely a thing. It's barely a thing, yeah. It's really odd, isn't it? And actually, people always say, you know, it's one of the real things that confuses them when they move from this kind of. country to America. And you can get stopped, can't you, for just walking along a road. In some states, that's against the state law. You just, you shouldn't be there because it's dangerous. Right. It is dangerous, yeah. So you'll be okay. You would probably have a much easier day-to-day existence in a very, very hot country because you'll be permanently like this.

Well, Ginny has joined us from Switzerland. Of course, not a hot country, but since emailing about coloured eggs in Switzerland. I've been a bit quiet, she says. But now with the heat wave, I thought it was time to share what the Swiss here in Zurich do to keep homes cool. It's structured and it works. Well, that's the Swiss, isn't it? What else do they do? Chocolate and clocks. And what else? Banking. St Bernard's. Dodgy banking.

No, you said dodgy banking. Well, they've got a lot of lost accounts, haven't they? Anyway, sorry. During the day, make the house dark advises jinny shut out all light close shutters draw curtains think mushroom complete darkness do not be tempted to open windows you arrive home to beautiful cool then when the sun goes down open all windows wide everything let in the cooling air and leave open overnight blissfully cool for sleeping and in the morning an absolute joy then as the sun comes up shut everything and so it goes on air conditioning isn't such a thing here so it's important to find a way to stay cool as temperature sore. Of course you can also jump in Zurich Lake. Having a lake nearby is recommended too. Good luck in London. I once lived in Highbury, so I know it well. Ginny, thank you and I know you're a regular listener and we very much appreciate it. We've actually, on a serious note, we've had some deaths, haven't we, with people jumping into, I think

there have been some incidents at beaches, but on the whole, most of our most popular beaches mercifully have lifeguards, but particularly young teenagers jumping into open water. and rivers, you just shouldn't do it. But I wonder whether, you know, is that message routinely given at school? Just because you're hot, the water's not hot. I honestly don't know whether it is. It's really, really sad. But also, you can, I think you can really understand how it happens

because you do get so hot, you think I'm going to cool off in this, and you simply don't realise what the cold water, because our water is still really, really cold. It would only ever be warm enough not to shock you. after we'd had a really decent kind of couple of weeks of hot weather. And it's so sad. It's so heartbreakingly sad. But they're very young these kids.

Yeah, don't take it lightly. And also just don't go to those out-of-the-way places if, you know, where ambulances can't get there in time. I know, I was only thinking, they can't win, though, can they? Because we're always raging at them for being in their bedrooms on screens. And then when they do go out and do it, adventurous stuff. We say don't do this and don't do that.

True that. And this whole business, this week, there's been this report, hasn't there, about the bedroom generation and these children, I mean our children, certainly my children, who spent far, far longer in their bedrooms because they could than I did when I was their age. And now some poor souls are absolutely lost in their rooms and can't get out and life's just treating them really, really cruelly. Now we did an interview about this and you came up with a very clever term. Would you like to reuse it? It's really sweet of you to say that, but it wasn't my term. Oh. Well, the guest

did think it was. Why you just pretend it is? No, but I'm basically truthful. It was on my mind. It's funny you mentioned that. It's all my conscience a bit, actually. I used the expression. I think I was talking about it. Peter Hyman was the guest, who was a former head teacher himself and a labour advisor, and he's one of the

people behind all this research on so-called Neats, which is not an expression that, not an acronym. It's for not in... Not in education or training. Yeah, it just sounds a bit condemnatory as a phrase, as though it's their fault really and almost always isn't. But there are a whole generation in this country

and I'm sure across the world of young people who... They've had so much available to them if they're lucky in a very confined space, i.e. their bedroom, if they're fortunate enough to have their own room. And frankly, there's very little incentive to leave. And that's terrible. It really is. But I suggested that they didn't leave in conversation with Peter Heimann

because they had this velvet rut of entertainment and sort of on-screen companionship in their rooms. And he liked the expression too, but it's absolutely not mine. Okay. Well, I mean, well done for admitting it, because you could have just palmed it off as yours. Well, at the time, I did. Yeah, I know.

But I definitely not mine. I think it's usually used in terms of a relationship where you're in a relationship that, you know, it's sort of... You know you should get out of it's comfortable. Or equally if you're not in a relationship, but you're basically not unhappy or not unhappy enough. So I think that's where it comes from.

Yeah. I think it's so difficult to understand what's happened just in one generation and why a teenager or a young person then won't respond to a cry from the adult world, to get out and get busy. So much of that's to do with that. fear. So as well as being

thoroughly entertained and I completely agree you know, you and I had to go out of the house because it was boring at home. There was nothing to do. So you had to go in search of something more entertaining. The only time that you and I would have spent all day in our rooms as if we were ill

otherwise we just wouldn't have done, would we? It wasn't a place. I mean I just remember there were a couple of, I put a couple of pictures up on the wall that I'd ripped out of Vogue. I'll play some music sometimes you know, I'd go and do my work in there, but I wouldn't be in my room, even when friends came around,

we just went out. So it's very difficult for us to understand how fearful you would then become of going outside, putting yourself in different places, putting yourself in different circumstances. So I'm with you. I feel, I think the labelling of a whole generation

is helpful for us to do and for politicians to do and policy makers. but deeply, deeply unhelpful for that generation. Well, if anyone wants to email in about, obviously we'll keep you anonymous and keep your children's names out of it, but I do that whole bedroom thing, how do you get them out of it and how do you make them realise

that there is a life outside that very comfortable cocoon that we've provided. It's our fault as parents. I did it. I gave my children the contraptions that would keep them entertained in their rooms. and so I'm absolutely a part of this but I mean I did spend so quite a bit of time in my bedroom often just listening to the radio and I do remember we laugh about it now for me

my dad in particular would take issue with this and say you can't just spend all day listening to the radio what good is that going to do I've had the last life yeah you certainly have yeah certainly have means I'm paying for lunch this weekend I'll tell you I mean genuinely an answer to that question though the only thing that you can hope work

is to introduce them to an environment that they prefer. You know, it's just that nudge thing, isn't it? You can't say you've got to. No. They're only really going to do it when they realize that there is more to life than being in their rooms. And what they've got in front of them, Jane, is so marvellous. Yeah.

I mean, you know, I get to the end of the week and, if left to my own devices, I might stay in my room just scrolling and, you know, buy it. I bought two swimming costumes online the other day, about 5.45 in the morning. Little serotonin hit. It was just wonderful. I know, it's weird, isn't it?

It's kind of like, no, I could do this. It's awful, isn't it? I've been thinking quite a bit about Peter Murrell, what was his job at the SNP? Well, he was the chief executive. Chief Executive of the SMP. And listeners outside the UK may or may not know that this gentleman has admitted

embezzling £400,000 from the Scottish National Party and spending it on just a chaotic range of items. Actually, I mean, I think the man is probably quite troubled. I don't think you'd behave like that if you weren't. I think he's got all of the signs of a massive addiction. Yeah. And so I'm not mocking any. I wouldn't mock any addiction.

We don't know quite what's gone on there. He's going to be sentenced in June. But he has admitted it, so we're all right to talk about it. There is no doubt. I get those little hits, too. I love just buying the occasional t-shirt or a little bit of some sort of emoliant cream before I get out of bed. Well, of course. I mean, the world...

It's why it all took off. It's why it all took off. We're all a part of that too. But have you bought a mobile home? Because Peter Marl did. Yes, he did. He did parker did his mother's. And apparently, Nicholas Sturgeon, although she did visit the property, didn't seem to know.

But the other thing, and you're right, we should be careful about laughing about it too much. But he managed to find some salt and pepper sellers on sale for $2,300. I had no idea that world existed. No, they're Lalik. I mean, I've looked at them. They just look terrible. What is Lalik? That's a brand.

It's a glass manufacturer. Oh, okay. They just look terrible. If you saw them, you know, discarded in your local charity shop, you know, on January the 3rd, I think you'd think, oh God, and Paul Saul got those for Christmas. I'm not surprised they're here. So it's not for me. If anyone's listening, wants to buy some salt and pepper sellers. But yes, you're chasing the same here.

time after time. It almost doesn't matter what it is you're buying. I think you're completely... And you can buy online. There are lots of us you just enjoy a quick gander at what's on in the shops and we might buy something we don't need and it does make us feel a bit happier for a little while. So it's the same thing, isn't it? It's an antidote to the devil wears Prada bodies. Hello, Jane Fee. This one comes in from Lorraine. If anyone in the hive is looking for an antidote to the relentless pursuit of youth and perfection in middle age give the Netflix film Jumapel Agnita, ago. It is Swedish, Scandy actors just look normal and tells the story of a homely cheese-loving woman

in her 50s. She sounds great. Who takes a job as an au pair in France. She's plain, a bit plump, wears a fleece all the time because she never has her arms on show, but gradually blossoms under the spell of the country, the culture and the people. It's a bit rom-com, a sort of Swedish Shirley Valentine, but it's so refreshing to see a normal-looking woman who thinks she's invisible, kicking off all the expectations that are holding her back. And the music is by... Deaf Leopard. Yes.

Okay. Abba. Right. The name of it again? Gimapal Agnita. Right. So you wonder whether it's especially commissioned music that's been written by Agnita? I don't think so, no.

No. Okay. No. Jeanette says I need to keep going with that program about the nine. and the priest because she said she thought the first episode was dull. Then she read Charlotte Iver's review and actually it got better. Okay, well, I'll maybe give it a while. I like this from Tamuzin in Thailand, my friend who could buy pretty much any car.

She once said a wise thing to me. By the cheapest car, your ego can afford. Yeah. It's very clever. That is very clever. And I'm interested in this dilemma from Kathy. I was catching up with off there whilst gardening on Bank Holiday Monday and Jane said she's sporting a baseball cap.

Yes, I have got one now, which I don't really wear in public. I did wear it once, and I was with my children, and, you know, I'm the subject of so much mockery within that quite tight-knit family group, and the baseball cap got the very firm thumbs down, but it's very good. I actually quite enjoy wearing it. I just wear it when I'm on my own now, in the house. I was wearing my husband's baseball cap at the time, said Kathy, not my headwear of choice, and not creating the aesthetic of the Insta,

influencers in their wide-brimmed Holland and Cooper straw hats post the Chelsea Flower Show. But the sun was beating through my thinning menopausal hair, scorching my scalp, so needs must. It made me think of appropriate headwear, and when my friend and I were at the Hay Festival, she was smitten with a felt fedora complete with a feather in the band for sale on one of those posh country clothing stands. You know what she means, don't you? Very much, sir. Yeah.

It wouldn't have gone to miss in Hereford or the Cotswolds, but we're from Liverpool. I felt the purchase, which wasn't cheap, could be a mistake. I wanted to be supportive and diplomatic. So I said, it does suit you, but you do know, if you wore that walking down Church Street, that's in Liverpool, you'll hear someone say, what the fuck has she got on her head? So the correct decision was made.

Yes. Cathy, you were right. I know exactly about the hats you're referring to, which hats you're referring to, and you would look a pillock walking down church street, wearing one of those, but it would pass completely unnoticed and probably much admired in the likes of Cheltenham or indeed Hereford. Or East West Kensington. You do see them sometimes. Do you? Yes, a little, I don't know, it's the female equivalent of the raspberry-coloured

trouser, I think, slightly. And I never really understand what kind of person gives themselves permission to wear one of those hats. I think people with land, I can only assume, which reminds me Maggie O'Farrell's written a book called Land and she's talking to us next week. Is she on next week? Absolutely brilliant. That's fantastic. Pardon? I don't want to mention that there's no guest today.

You just have and they've done it beautifully. There's no guest today. She's saying she was waiting. We were meant to be doing something else this afternoon that then just fell off the slate and we don't really know why. And Asma Mayor is sitting in for us

on Times Radio. She's always worth a listen. and it'll be quite nice actually this afternoon, won't it? I'll just go, I've got a dip booked in the West Reservoir and I'll take my headphones with me and I'll listen to our show, go out. Is it great? She doesn't mean this, by the way. The afternoon show, Times Radio 2 till 4,

absolutely packed with news and interesting features. Do get the app, honestly, the Times Radio app. It's really brilliant. And it's free. Now, can we shove out this dilemma before we say our goodbyes? It's going to remain anonymous and I think it is an interesting one. Listening to your discussions about going grey, hair dye, etc.,

and I know the sensitivities of male baldness have been discussed before, but I wonder if I might ask the mighty high for their thoughts. My lovely husband has been losing his hair since his early 20s. We're now in our mid-30s. For context, his long hair was always an enormous part of his identity, along with motorbike and guitars. Please suspend your mockery. He does 90% of the toddlers.

bedtimes hoovering and cooking. So let's cut the man some slack while we say all hail. He's a keeper. The hair wasn't to my taste, but we've been together since we were 15 and 16. I love the bones of him. And to my mind, he can do exactly what he wants with his hair. This being said, the baldness is significant and noticeable. And our correspondent has tried to delicately approach the topic, but my dilemma is this. He's never ever commented on my appearance with any hint of criticism. Having been together for 20 years, he's seen my weight fluctuate through two pregnancies and good Lord, do it, did it fluctuate? Welcome to our club. We've both got our hands up in the studio. Watch me experiment with my hair and clothes and has never made me feel

self-conscious. He doesn't shower me with compliments, but he does make me feel like he loves my soul and personality. So our correspondent says that she still finds him very attractive, but she is wondering how she can manage to tell him that actually the time has come to make a substantial change because it's not really working for the wider environment. Should I repay his approach to me and say nothing is my role to gently or maybe not so gently encourage him to perform the inevitable head shaving. How have other people managed this? Wary of sounding very superficial here, I can only imagine how I would metaphorically eviscerate a man who said something similar about his wife's appearance, but I can't be the only one, kind advice, please. Well, that's punted out there. And you're right,

there's a double standard going on here, isn't there? Because actually any man who said to their wife, I don't like your grey hair, could you done it? You must die it. You must die. We'd be horrified. We would be and we'd say that that was controlling and asking a woman to be something that they aren't naturally and go against the grain of aging. So we know all of that

and it's interesting how you punt that back. Is our correspondent saying that she thinks people are mocking him and he doesn't realise? Yes. Well, she's saying that she thinks he can't see how bad it is and that other people are noticing.

But how does she know that they're noticing? She's noticed other people noticing. Okay, right. So she says, I still find him attractive, but I'm aware that everyone else notices his current hair situation, and it's not really a good look. But have they said anything,

or does she just think they've noticed? Well, I think you can tell. Yes, you probably can't tell. I mean, I did see something on, just a quick thing on Substat the other day, somebody was quoting somebody else saying, it's astonishing how much time people spend worrying about their appearance

when they really ought to be focusing on their personality and it is true I mean it's a very simple trite thing in some ways but it's so true that some people have got the most horrendous personalities and they just spend ages agonising over their eyebrows or their feet or indeed their hair or their partner's hair

he sounds like a lovely guy that's got to count for an enormous amount well let's throw it open yeah because other other people will have been in that situation and will be a bit further down the line. Yeah. I'm not dismissing the idea that she is worried that

other people are looking at him and finding him a little bit ridiculous. And that makes you feel incredibly anxious and defensive, doesn't it? Because you want to protect him. Yes, and you feel a bit sorry for him and that's an uncomfortable feeling too.

So I think the key thing actually is to you know, to just really, really openly say to him how attractive you still find him, but, you know, why not take the hair away and the attraction would still be there and it belongs to a different time in his life? I mean, I do think, God, am I okay in saying this?

I think if my partner said to me that I was wearing something that belonged to a different, part of my life. If I got the PVC cat suit out again, Jane, and tried to put that on for a party. And he said look, that's just ridiculous. Would you do it for charity? No. Would you do it for me? No, I wouldn't.

I would definitely take on board what he meant. Would I feel offended and insulted? I don't. No, I don't. Gosh, it's no. I don't think it would. I mean, that's a silly kind of extreme example. Sometimes

sometimes I'm quite grateful when people say something about my appearance that I haven't noticed, but I don't know. We're all sensitive about our appearance. There's no point pretending otherwise. So there's no reason why our emailer's partner can't be sensitive about his. That's absolutely fine. Let's see what people say about that. And I just hope, what time will you come tomorrow to sort of?

I mean, I'm just thinking, because with the heat, perhaps if you make a lot of it. Perhaps if you make an early start, half six. What, the easy grass? Yeah, so come in your little band. Sort out your easy grass. Do you have your power tools? I'll send Dick and Domrat. Oh, no.

You're going to deal with them. Are they still in operation? Well, I mean, as I said before, I was wary to put up a career-ending review on checkertrader.com or trustpilot or Google or whatever it was, but I hope they're not still in business. No. But it's a difficult one, isn't it?

Because you kind of think, well, maybe they are still in business because I didn't put up a career ending with you and I should have done. I don't know, Jane. What a 21st century quandary we find ourselves. It surely is. Yes, it really is. Okay. All the very best to everybody.

Eve, have a lovely holiday. How long are you away for? I'm away for a week, so I'll be back Monday after next. Oh, we're going to miss you. I can't wait to come back and see you all. Oh, that's such a fake smile. I can't wait to go. Yeah, well, we get that impression.

Don't worry. But you deserve a break. Thank you. And good luck with all that heat and all those cues at border control. Except they've abandoned them in Greece, haven't they? Have they? Yeah, they're not doing them. Oh, that's interesting.

They realise they're beaten, so, and they want us to come. Deep down, I think they do want us to come. Right, have a lovely time. Thank you. Right, it's Jane and Fee at times.combedradiate because unlike Eve, we are very much here, Monday to Thursday next week. Just not this afternoon. Yeah, all right.

It was a complication that we don't need to go into now. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another Offair with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online, on DAB, or on the free Times Radio app. Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury and the Executive Brue. producer is Rosie Cutler.