Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Firm buttocks, that's what we want (with Michel Roux Jr)

Episode Date: September 21, 2023

Professional working mum, or concerned and thoughtful parent? Fi is facing a dilemma, while Jane is busy waving a loaf of sourdough bread around the office and asking for a 'rompathon' for next month's Book Club pick.They're joined by Michelin starred chef Michel Roux Jr to talk about his new recipe book, 'Michel Roux at Home: Simple and delicious French meals for every day'.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiAssistant Producer: Kate LeeTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. I just waggled that loaf around and said, I'm slightly half-assed here, does anybody want half of it? And he just went, yeah, I'll get a knife.

She's just gone off to get the knife. That's very funny. Now, hello. Hello. And welcome to Thursday's edition of Off Air. We've got to get a wiggle on because you've got to go somewhere. Well, I've got a school function. Yeah, that's right.

Yeah. So I'm going to try and hot foot it. I'm going to put on my different identity. Yes. What's that professional working mum concerned and thoughtful parent oh concerned look at my face i'm doing this are you when you go to an event like that do you trust do you ask questions no no i never did no because uh my children would always be embarrassed if i did yeah exactly yeah and there's always someone who

asks the question that I wanted answered and all the ones I hadn't thought to ask yeah I leave it to more qualified parents than myself but weirdly I you wouldn't think this would I don't particularly like but speaking at something like that would not be for me that's so weird do you mean that you can only ask relevant questions if you're on the clock? Yes, that's exactly it. It's very kind of you to say my questions are relevant. I don't think they are always. Right.

We should say that we've got a bonus podcast haven't we this week because it's Book Club Week. It is. So thank you for all of your incredibly thoughtful and really spot on and very funny observations on my sister the serial killer book number two in book club written by a yinka braithwaite and our podcast special includes an interview with her which i think massively improves the whole idea

of our book oh it certainly does because how many book clubs would you go to where you can actually then talk to the author? Exactly. And it also means that we won't be able to have books, for example, by Charles Dickens. Because he's not available. And thank God for that. Very true. So we are taking suggestions for the next book club podcast. So please do get in touch if you have an idea. Jane and Fee at Times.Radio.

I think we're looking just for something enjoyable. we say a romance oh romance possibly even a steamy rope no i've gone too far not you want a sexy romance not the muses by el james okay that's banned but you can think of others let's not go back no okay let's not so you want a rompathon. We've had one about a serial killer. We've had, let's be honest, a depressing French novel about a graveyard. I love that book. Yes, I know. It was all life

affirming and all the other things. Well, no, it wasn't life affirming. It was just real. Okay, let's forget real. And forget affirming. Let's read about sex. Firm buttocks. That's what we want. So Jane would like a rompathon. No, it's forget real and forget affirming. Let's read about sex. Firm buttocks, that's what we want. So Jane would like a rompathon. It's just an idea. Okay, it doesn't have to be that.

Okay. Jane and Fee at Times.Radio. Our big guest today is Michelle Rue. We spent a long time talking about juniors yesterday, and he isn't a junior anymore, as it's turned out. But if you stay till the end of the interview, he explains why he was a junior which was not the answer i was expecting it's quite interesting yeah it is

but also it's just really mundane and also mundane like so much of our podcast he was great we really enjoyed meeting him he was a very very nice man he was very easy to talk to and we really really love his book now do you have any emails oh look eve's brought in half your loaf of bread does everybody realize that it is uh september celebrate sourdough month it's sourdough september yeah uh we didn't know but we did have an item on it i don't know why why has eve come in during the podcast she knows that she just wants to be mentioned in it, doesn't she? She does. And she wants to be mentioned for the fact that she's wrapped up half a sourdough in a copy of the Times. Like she's kind of from the 1940s.

And she's plonked it down on the desk. Does she realise how manhandled that loaf is? Because I was squashing. Well, yeah, but I did say to her, you can have the bit that I haven't fondled. And she took the other end. I'm bewild Well, yeah, but I did say to her, you can have the bit that I haven't fondled. And she took the other end. I'm bewildered by that. But yeah, we have had an email about juniors, seniors and juniors. This is from Jane. I think many families in the US do what my friend's family do when it comes to naming convention. alternate middle names each generation and junior, third or fourth only apply if a predecessor with

the same name is still alive at the time of their birth. So let me explain, she says. We start with John Richard Bloggs, man one. Man one's son is named John Stephen Bloggs. He is man two. John Stephen Bloggs has a son, man three, who he calls John Richard Bloggs after his grandfather. If the first J.R. Bloggs is still alive at the time of the baby's birth, the baby is then named John Richard Bloggs Jr. If he isn't, it's just John Richard Bloggs. And so it goes on with the next generation son being named J.S. Bloggs. The same rule applies if, as in this case, he's named after his grandfather who's still alive.

You lost me at the first quite clear and i'm very grateful to jane for that okay uh could i borrow one of your emails because i've thrown mine away thank you i'm sorry oh you've crossed everything no i've highlighted it okay kate is that highlighted that's out Okay, I was very in a hurry Come on, get on, you're the one who's got to go somewhere Okay, am I doing all of this? Yes Okay

This one comes from Profuse Apologies Elizabeth Hello both In many ways, I can't believe I'm writing this email But as I often want to say to my younger siblings We're here now My dad was a languages student At Queen Mary's College London back in the mid 80s. Long story short, he gets to the end of his degree course and realised he hadn't learnt Russian to quite the extent he needed for his final year exams.

Picture the scene. It's April 1986. He goes to a bar in St. Petersburg. Spoiler alert, the very city my mother's from. And facts remain murky. He takes my mother back to his Leningrad hotel room in order to seduce her. They frequently, sorry, they subsequently spend a couple of weeks... Probably frequently, let's face it. Intersperse those words.

Spend a couple of weeks hanging out before my dad returns to East London. Six weeks later, my mother calls him up to tell him she's pregnant. I, by turns, refer to myself as the world's longest one night stand and a visa baby i'm okay with both but if fee was in a two-star hotel in leningrad in the mid-1980s all i can do is apologize on behalf of my naive father and my calculating mother the end result of this phone call is my dad flying back to russia to marry my mother oh my god there's then quite a stressful turn of events because the previous lot have been not stressful at all relating to how my mum wasn't allowed out of russia until the day after we got out of

hospital and miraculously it went from you're pregnant we can't give you a visa every week to you have a baby and we can register her name so So here is your visa. To this day, my mother flies back home carrying the Russian passport in which I was first stamped. I started this email very much in a tongue-in-cheek way, given the vague possibility of fee being in the same hotel as my irresponsible parents. In reality, as I type, it's actually been quite hard work, dealing with an English family who think my mother used my dad and a Russian mother who feels like she was lured here under false pretenses. There's a lot going on there isn't there? Oh my word. But anyway you weren't in that hotel. I don't think so. You didn't hear any of that.

I don't think so. No. No. But we all have to start somewhere. Yes and I mean if that was what I overheard, I mean the chances are slim, then you gave it some welly. Well, her parents gave it some welly. Thank you for sharing us the story of how you came to be. That is quite a tale, isn't it? It is. But how sad, actually, that there's been a kind of backlog of prejudice, actually. It sounds, yes, that sounds horrible.

The whole thing sounds a little complicated. Very complicated. Brave of you to tell us. Yeah. Thank you for that. But, you know, these sorts of relationships happen. Let's be honest. Okay.

Dear Jane and Fee, I'm a former primary school teacher now liberated. I taught a Lucifer. Now, this is on the back of the item I did yesterday from the newspapers. This is on the radio show. I don't think it was on the podcast. A woman in Australia had tried to test Australia's rules on names you can give your kids. And she chose Methamphetamine Rules, thinking there's no way that allow her little baby son, who is the most gorgeous baby, to be called Methamphetamine Rules.

But the authorities in Australia saw nothing wrong with it. And that's now the lad's name. She does say she is going to change it. I said I thought some names were banned in this country, and I did think that Lucifer was one of them. And I was with you on that. Yeah, but Claire says, well, she could be just joking. I can confirm I taught her Lucifer.

Suffice to say, this was the year that put the nail in my teaching coffin. Maybe she's just joking. I don't know. We should look it up, or maybe we can do an interesting feature about it. I don't know what name's a band if Lucifer's not. No, I did think it was a band, I must admit. And briefly, because we do have to get on to our guest,

Michelle Rue, who is a very companionable chap, so you'll enjoy him. It's from Sarah. You often mention what it would be like to listen in to conversations of two educated 50-ish well-to-do men. I did just that, she says. I was working for the London Stock Exchange at the time and got into a lift which already had two male occupants who I didn't know. They weren't talking until one turned to the other and said, you'd be very surprised what Margaret can do with soft fruits.

Nothing else was said and I got out of the next floor. Thank you, Sarah. Oh, it's the start of a very good novel, that conversation, isn't it? Yes, we've got a couple of good emails that would start novels. Let's face it, the Russian one would as well. And actually, I just want to do one more. I mentioned that Hugh Grant was at the state banquet that the French very kindly put on for our king and queen

because they don't get to eat much at home. So it was lovely of the French to look after them and put on a fine display. And I did point out yesterday that Hugh Grant had been invited to the state banquet at Versailles. Vicky says, I think I know why Hugh Grant was there last night. He has a house in Provence. I've spent a few summers in that neighbourhood

and I went to the market there on a Friday morning in my Provençal frock and floppy hat and basket, hoping to spot Hugh. I didn't, but I did buy some beautiful crockery. Well, listen, crockery will last longer than a memory of Hugh Grant. Exactly. Based on his track record, you're far better off with your crockery. Thank you very much, Vicky.

Good Lord. Right, so shall we head into Michel Roux territory then? Yes, let's do that. Let's do it. Michel Roux used to go foraging with his dad Albert and his mum Monique over a weekend as a kid in Kent, and the fields and hedgerows gave them chestnuts, mushrooms and snails. I've gone all lyrical here, Jane.

Sorry, I've just been completely transported. Carry on. Sincere. Worse. Theirs is a family dedicated to good food. Albert and his brother Michel Senior opened Le Gavroche in 1967, an institution in the food world of London. The first to ever get three Michelin stars,

but now its doors are to close at the beginning of next year. And we do talk to Michel about that in a moment. But he remains terrifically busy, as well as judging the television shows that he often does. He's got a new cookbook out called At Home. So we started by asking him, what will he cook for dinner tonight? My wife's cooking tonight, so I don't know. That is a cop-out. Seeing as it's piddling down with rain it'll probably be a soup actually, a lovely

hearty warm soup which my wife does very well actually. Well I mean absolute props to you for mentioning your wife's good cooking too but what are you like in the kitchen at home? Are you a little bit territorial? Yes, very much so. Normally, I always do the cooking at home. I'm in charge. I'm the chef after all. She married me for my cooking skills,

not my good looks. At least I hope. She married you for both. Well said, Jane. That quick enough. I was looking at you. Well, you had no choice. No, I do.

I love cooking and I never tire from cooking. And yeah, I do cook at home normally. But tonight, I think Mrs. Rue is making a soup. We'll come on to talk more about all of the lovely recipes in the book in a couple of moments' time. But I think it came as a shock to quite a lot of people that you were going to close Le Gavrocheche i suppose there's an assumption that with something that famous and that established it would just go on forever and ever even if you weren't at the helm of it yes indeed i mean um

like you said it was open in 67 so it's been around a while it's a part of history le gavroche means so much to so many people, including myself. It's been my life. And I would never, ever want Le Gavroche to belong to someone else, if that kind of makes sense, because I wouldn't want to sell part of my life. So I could very well, and I've had offers to sell up and to let other people run it for me. to sell up and to let other people run it for me. But no, I don't think it's right. I think it's right for me to go out whilst I'm still at the top, I suppose, and everybody's really enjoying working there and dining there, and then just to call it a day.

How much of the decision has been influenced though by the kind of changing world of running a restaurant? I mean, I know that you've made some comments before about how difficult Brexit has made it to get staff and to keep a supply chain going. Is that part of the decision too? Honestly, no. I mean, Brexit has definitely put a spanner in the works and it's certainly not helped anyone in the hospitality industry, but not just the hospitality industry, to be fair. I mean, the care industry, you name it. I mean, it's certainly very much hindering good business and life in general. life in general. But that is not the reason why I am closing the restaurant. The reason why I'm closing the restaurant is many, many reasons that have aligned, including the lease coming to an end. I'm not having any problems with the landlord, quite on the contrary. But it's just one of those many little things that have come along for me to say, okay, it's time. I mean, including me being

63 years old so you know I'm thinking I need to spend a little bit more time with Mrs Rue and enjoy her lovely cooking uh and of course um helping my daughter and son-in-law they've opened up their restaurant in Notting Hill um and and look after a bit of babysitting look after my grandchildren how many nights would you have been in the restaurant anyway? I'm there every night. I mean, practically every night. Until what time? Give us an idea of your working day. Oh, gosh. I mean, I'm up in the morning at seven o'clock. I mean, I very, very rarely do I put an alarm clock on because I'm awake before the alarm. And I do a lot of

daily work. And then I hit the restaurant and I'm in the restaurant until 10-ish, 11-ish, so until the last orders come in. Wow. So when we see you on a TV show, that's just the day part of your job and you're going on to cook? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, very often after TV work, I will go back into work. What are you going to do when the restaurant shuts up in the evening?

And does Mrs Rue want you there every night? That's a puzzle. That's my worry. No, no, no, no. Oh, gosh, we actually got on very well during lockdown. Phew. But it is going to be a huge change for you, isn't it? Yes, it will will but you know i i am still a very very busy person uh but but taking out the restaurant um will free up a lot of time and especially evenings as well and so yeah i'll be able to maybe um go and watch a bit of rugby down at the stoop and cheer on the harlequins or go and uh go to my local team manchester united at Old Trafford. I was quite warming to you. Who goes to La Gavroche? I mean, is it people?

There must be some people who save up and it's the big moment of the decade. And you probably get your celebrity regulars. And London is a place where there are always going to be very rich people. They just are. I mean, we just, we'd accept that. And sometimes it takes your breath away walking around parts of London because I see other parts of Britain and I see

Mayfair and Knightsbridge and it's astonishing. But the menu exceptionnel is over 400 quid? That's for two people. Well, it depends if you have the wine flight with it. Yes. So it is. By absolutely 100%,

it is not cheap. And quite rightly, like you say, there are people who will save up for years and years and years for that very, very special occasion. And there are other people who almost treat it like their canteen. London is a bubble. It certainly is. And there is a lot of money that comes through London. And there is a lot of money that comes through London. And we should not poo-poo that, quite on the contrary, because I think UK PLC needs a bit of money.

And so the more foreigners that come in or the more people that actually spend money, the better. Yeah, I mean, I looked at it. Obviously, I looked at the menu exceptionnel just because I thought, which of these courses do I fancy? And look, it all looked delicious. But the sommelier, if you pay the big price, will give you a different glass of wine with every course. I mean, I'd just be beside myself, Michel.

I mean, how do people honestly navigate that? Yeah, I mean, and we're quite generous with our pour as well. I mean, some people do roll out, but other people will say, well, I'll have a little brandy at the end as well so you know it it depends on how much you you can drink really tom carriage said something quite interesting last week because he was getting a little bit of flack for serving his sunday roast at 175 pounds but he revealed that actually the profit on that is 17 quid is it the same kind of thing for you oh absolutely 100 i mean i know tom gets a lot of flack for that and uh but but it's um and i get the occasional bit of flack too thanks tom for taking most of it

but it's um it is that it is incredibly difficult the margins are very very slim i mean if you take off you know your vat and then your your cost of rent and rent and rates which is another bugbear, and energy costs. And some restaurants or some bills, energy bills have trebled. I mean, trebled. How can we work like that? And then, you know, and it just goes on. Food inflation is still in double digits and, in my view, will carry on being in double digits for a long time. So it is very, very difficult.

We do seem to have quite a polarised palette in this country at the moment and polarised plates, actually, because on the one hand, we've got people who have no choice but to eat very, very cheap food. We're learning more about the damage that that can do, particularly to kids. And then at the other end, we do have an unbelievably high-end level of cooking and eating. Do you think that that is a necessarily bad thing? And do you think that it will change? Well, I suppose you're always going to have those two ends. But it's making sure that the bottom end actually do get wholesome food and can afford food. I mean, we hear horror stories about making the choice between warming or heating up the living space and feeding themselves. And that is just simply not acceptable in our generation, our age.

And in fact, it's shameful, criminal. Do you think that there's more, that the restaurant industry could contribute to that? Gosh, in what way? Well, I know that lots of restaurants do really help out with food banks and they really help out with schools and they provide and you know quite a circular kind of food economy but they're doing that out of the

goodness of their hearts aren't they there there is no kind of as far as i know a government incentive that helps them to do that and possibly that's something that could happen one day yeah i suppose so i mean I've never really thought of it that way. I mean, there are many charities out there like the Felix Project and such like. And whenever we close down, if we have any fresh goods that need to be shifted, then we will go to the food banks. Well, not the food banks, but the Felix Project for one, because they take fresh food. A lot of food banks don't actually take fresh food. They will only take dried or uh tins um but yeah i mean you know any kind of initiative like that

should be looked at for sure yeah let's talk about some of the wonderful recipes in your book would you like to pick a number somewhere between 1 and 150 and we will find the recipe and we will chat about it go for it by the way you can't do what did you choose oh the onion creamy onion tagliatelle yeah i don't think you can have which i would i would like michelle to come around to my home and make that for me one evening and i will eat i don't know enough for four i'll probably be able to can i just briefly mention a lovely email we've had from a listener called sarah who says that she met you on honeymoon oh her honeymoon in mauritius uh you were the consultant chef at the restaurant in the hotel that Sarah went to.

During the day, sunbathing by the pool, my new husband and I were entranced by a little French girl called Emily playing in the pool. We were newlywed and romantically planning our future lives. We determined that we too would have a little girl and call her Emily. Back home, the spare room became Emily's room. And two years later, in 1999, we did have our own Emily. Brave, bonkers and beautiful, she's now 23 and travelling in Australia.

Emily, you won't be listening, but I hope you're safe and having a fantastic time. It's only in recent years that we realised that Michelle's daughter is that Emily, the one we saw in Mauritius. Oh, lovely. That's a nice little story, isn't it? What a lovely, lovely story. Isn't that amazing? Yeah. Pick a number then, please. Let's go for 78. 78. Ah, lovely. That's a nice little story, isn't it? What a lovely, lovely story. Isn't that amazing? Yeah. Pick a number then, please.

Let's go for 78. 78. Here we go. This is where we need some sound effects, don't we? Bingo. Yeah. Oh, that's a very nice one. Oh, what have I chosen?

Well, you've chosen cod and vegetable parcels. I mean, it's got a very, it's got a nicer French name, hasn't it? Oh, gosh. It's a little papillote de cabillaud keep saying that it just sounds better everything sounds better in french is that true yes it is yeah everything from food to um just all of it swearing swearing is better in french so how would one make a cod and vegetable parcel and you see this is something that i would never try that at home actually michelle just because i think that i need to have a special type of paper

or it might you know light itself in the oven or whatever well i do i mean i use parchment or greaseproof paper in that recipe but i do mention as well it could use um foil um and uh it's uh yeah so you pre-cook some vegetables slice them up, and then put the cod in their little splash of booze or wine, olive oil, seasoning, close up the parcel and pop it in the oven. And that's it. And that is it. And, yeah, and it just cooks all in its own juices. Sounds lovely.

And I bet it is. What is your ultimate go-to food? You know, if you were going to be at home of an evening and you're just like oh i need to just cheer my world up a little bit what is it yeah i mean comfort food for me is home cooking um and oh gosh my mum used to make the most amazing shepherd's pie but at home when if i come back after a long shift at work, I normally raid the fridge for cheese. I love cheese. I could live off cheese. Can we be honest about the difference between French and English cheese?

British cheese, I should say. For me, the world of British cheese is an exceptional place. I don't think French cheese is as good. Shock. Horror. Well, have the French come round to my way of thinking. I don't think French cheese is as good. Shock. Horror. Well, have the French come round to my way of thinking. There are some exceptionally good British cheese out there. And it's amazing how it has changed over the last 20 years,

or even more than that. I mean, my dad and uncle, when they first opened the restaurant back in the 60s, I mean, OK, there was some good cheddar, there was obviously Stilton and there wasn't much else. And there was a lot of plastic cheese as well. But now, look, it is incredible. And if you take the cheese board at Le Gavroche, we have 36 different cheese on our cheese board.

Half of it, and sometimes more, is British. And that is incredible. The quality of British cheese is sensational yeah well that's good well said passionate stuff perfectly delivered thank you very much but actually when your family first came over here Britain I mean let's be honest about it I mean I was born in 1964 and olive oil was something you got at the chemist wasn't it I mean I'm not people think you're making that up that people do think you're making but that, but it's true. It was for dislodging earwax. Absolutely. And it works.

It does work, yes, absolutely. But do it in safe and controlled circumstances. So were you, I mean, your family came over and offered Britain what? And what did they make of what the British were eating at the time? Yeah, so Dad and Mum arrived in the UK in 1959. And I was born in 1960. So I'm not just from French stock. I was actually made here as well.

Yeah, good. Yeah, so I was made in the UK. But that's just an aside. Well, I don't need to know about that. Anyway, carry on. But, yeah, it's very difficult to describe the food scene back in the 60s uh it was pretty dire and like you quite rightly said olive oil was was only you know purchased in uh for medicinal reasons but um yeah and i think we take we take it for granted now this generation and just to walk down a supermarket island to be able to choose from about 20 different kinds of olive

oil and and and it's it's just there there's even strawberries at Christmas for god's sake don't buy strawberries at Christmas but yeah but you know so it's it was it was terrible but my father and then my uncle when he came over to join dad really i think saw that there was a huge opportunity here for a restaurant that would deliver great french gastronomy and uh and they fought very hard and and really tried their their damnness to make it make it work and they did voiceover describes what's happening on your iphone screen voiceover on settings so you can navigate it just by listening books contacts calendar double tap to open breakfast with from 10 to 11 and get on with your day accessibility there's more to iphone

Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Michelle Rue is our guest this afternoon. Tell us a little bit about your family then and the dynamics within the family, because obviously you've got three great chefs. You've got your dad, Albert, your uncle, Michelle Rue Sr., you. How did that play out? And was there ever too much competition between the three of you? Too many chefs spoil the broth, isn't it, I think? Is that what you're alluding to?

No, I mean, well, Christmas is always fun in the Roo household, that's for sure. And yeah, I think all the Roos have got this sort of work ethic and we work, you know, really we're not work shy. We really love what we're doing. And but we're all very individual and very unique or very different. My uncle was a was an artist and absolutely loved pastry. In fact, he won many competitions in his pastry work. And dad, his food was more robust, more sort of gutsy, and his sauces were legendary. And I like to think I've got a bit of both of them. And then, of course, there's my daughter as well, who's got that lovely finesse and love of Mediterranean food. So I think we're all very unique in our way and in our approach to the end product in the plate.

But there is one thing that brings us all together. And as I said, it's our work ethic, but also our love of teaching and passing on our knowledge and hopefully inspiring the next generation to come into our industry. And so was there ever a time when you got fed up with being junior and decided to drop it? I mean, you're not. You're not Michel Rue Jr. The story about junior is I tagged it on many, many, many years ago when Uncle Michel was still alive. um many many many years ago when when uncle michelle was still alive um and i i actually rented a flat off um off my uncle and uh lived so i was living basically in his in his premises and i was getting um letters uh and bills and invoices uh addressed to michelle rue and i opened them up but they actually weren't for me.

So I had to tag on Junior because of that but what really really made me tip it into tagging on Junior was when I was getting his girlfriend's letters. Ooh la la. Yes exactly so I thought this is one step too far I've got to tag on Junior on the end of that so people can know who's who right but you don't use it now we don't we don't need to know now that uncle sadly has passed away i've dropped the job if you were young uh young chefs starting out now would you want to have a restaurant because actually there are some young chefs doing amazing things out of vans yeah they're on the

tiktok uh they're all over the place you know they seem to have quite a freedom about them actually yeah i think it's wonderful it's absolutely beautiful and uh uh to to see that street food and to to see pop-up restaurants as well short leases as well so because there may be places are coming leases are coming to an end and so they can take over a premises just for maybe six months um and i think that's fabulous i think what we're finding as well the trend is that um more and more chefs are opening up restaurants outside of the big city because the rents are cheaper and more affordable, should I say. And so that's really good as well, I think. So the whole sort of hospitality industry is changing. And yeah, I think we should encourage

small local independents too. So yeah, it's great if you come into town and you're making a whole day out of it, which is great. But do go and spend your pennies to the local independents. So whether that's your butcher, your baker, your whatever,

or your little restaurant. Yeah, go and see them. And the world of apps makes that possible, doesn doesn't it you can just find so many different places to eat and to buy your food through that technology yeah absolutely and social media social media has really uh i think changed as well changed the the food and the restaurant scene yep i think jane wanted to tap into your wisdom about some mackerel. Yes, there is. Now, it looks relatively doable. It's a really simple mackerel dish. Am I right?

Is it doable? Could I do it? 100% doable. You just buy a couple of fillets of mackerel. And you can nowadays. You can get mackerel fillets from even supermarkets on Seine. And it's a very, very quick marinade or marinade how do you say that it's only literally a five ten minute marinade and pop it under the grill and mackerel

is good for you it's a lovely oily fish it's full of flavor and relatively good value and it makes a super super lunch and serve it makes a super, super lunch. Serve it with a little salad. And I tell you, it is absolutely... And you've got some lovely sourdough bread there, I can see in front of you. Well, it's sourdough September, Michel. Did you know this?

Yes, of course. Of course you were a Cosset. Have the French learnt any bad habits from us? Last time I was in France, I was slightly alarmed to see they had ready meals in the supermarket. Yeah, but they're not just ready meals they're pretty good ready meals well yeah but still i was quite shocked yeah well i suppose it's the onslaught of yeah ready meals fast food um there are yeah mcdonald's every street corner in in france i mean a long time ago they used to burn them down.

A famous activist called José Bové used to go around in the cities up and down France and burn them down. He got put away for that, by the way. But if you take McDonald's, I think I'm not wrong in saying it's the second biggest market in the world. Really? It is incredible.

That is extraordinary, isn't it? But have you been to McDonald's in France? I haven't. Is it better than it is here? Well, some of them do do table service and they serve wine. No. Goodness, I'm heading for Waterloo.

Won't be around for the second hour. I'll do it by myself. That's extraordinary. Michelle, what a pleasure to meet you. Thank you very much indeed for coming into Times Towers today. So Michel Roux at Home is the latest cookbook. I know that you're off on a small cruise.

You're leaving from Southampton tomorrow, correct? Yes, tomorrow morning I'm on the Queen Mary. I'm taking Le Gavroche at sea. And so for five nights we're going to be running the restaurant aboard. And I'll be doing some cooking demos and book signing and hopefully managing to get a little bit of time off with Mrs Rue as well. Yes, Mrs Rue's cropped up a lot in this conversation. I'm very much liking the sound of her

and sister, we are with her. Safe passage to you. Thank you very much indeed for your company. Michel Rue and his book is called At Home, My Favourite Recipes for Family and Friends. And actually loads of them are really simple. Some of them are a little bit more complex. There's some beautiful pictures of some pastry where it would just, I know, be a disappointment if I ever tried to do.

I think it's a pithivier or something like that because it's just never going to look as good as the book. Tell you what does, Jane? Food photography is an to look as good as the book does, Jane. Food photography is an art, isn't it? It very much is. It really is. It's a very special art form, that, actually. I'm not sure photographers of food get the credit they deserve. I'd like someone to come round and photograph what I'm having for my tea tonight. Well, they've got lots of really amazing cheats, haven't they?

Like using mashed potato instead of ice cream. They do? And stuff like that. Yep, and using hairspray on vegetables and all kinds of things. Right. Yeah. So maybe we should get a food photographer on and bust those myths. Let's do that.

Shall we do some taboo breaking radio? Let's do that. Now, I often like to bring in Bill in Hyten because I think he quite often hits the nail on the head. Hi, ladies. I've just bought a new electric car, costing me a lot more than the petrol version. I've also had a charger fitted to my property

and I'm really angry with those idiots in Downing Street. Right, Bill. You see, there's Bill trying to do his best. He thinks he's, you know, doing what is expected of him. And then Rishi decides that perhaps we're going a little bit too quickly in that direction and we need to slow down it's not going to help Bill is it he's splashed out he's committed yeah yep Bill I'm so sorry do you keep in touch with us uh you can follow us on Instagram at Jane and

Fee we post some quite random things up there sometimes sorry Kate we post up some really thoughtful content often uh and also links to our interviews and if you want to bung us an email it's jane and fee at times dot radio and as jane mentioned our book club podcast drops tomorrow your friday bonus so we very much hope you enjoy it and if you took part thank you and actually can i just mention one more email because now fisa uh has emailed to say just to say say, Camilla, Queen Camilla, was dressed in what looked very much like an abaya, the long flowing dress Muslim women have been banned from wearing in schools and colleges in France for that banquet at Versailles.

It's a really good observation from Nafisa. And because it was quite telling, wasn't it, that Camilla had a really full-length, all-covered-up robe, and actually quite a lot of the other ladies attending the banquet were in... Pretty casual dress. Yes. And just, you know, shoulderless stuff and short skirts and all of the rest of it.

So if she was making a point, Nafisa has noticed. Yes, she has. I suppose we don't know whether she was or not, but you're right. That's a very interesting observation and thank you for making it. Jane and Fi at times.radio. We're back next week and our guests will include, well, let's just start on Monday with Geoffrey Arch. I really wish you the very best of luck.

I'm not here for the programme, so it's you and Jane Mulkerrans. And actually, I wish Geoffrey Arch the best of luck. Somehow I think he'll manage. Have a lovely couple of days. We're bringing the shutters down on another episode of the internationally acclaimed podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe.

But don't forget that you can get another two hours of us every Monday to Thursday afternoon here on Times Radio. We start at 3 p.m. and you can listen for free on your smart speaker. Just shout Play Times Radio at it. You can also get us on DAB Radio in the car or on the Times Radio app whilst you're out and about being extremely busy. And you can follow all our tosh behind the mic and elsewhere on our Instagram account. Just go on to Insta and search for Jane and Fee and give us a follow. So in other words, we're everywhere, aren't we, Jane? Pretty much everywhere. Thank you for screen voiceover on settings so you can navigate it just by listening books contacts calendar double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11.

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