Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Fridge full of p*cky b*ts (with Celia Imrie)

Episode Date: August 12, 2025

It’s Tuesday - we’re two days out from Fruity Thursdays. Buckle in… Jamal and Jane chat the Worcestershire wildcat, nature documentaries, career advisors, and porn. Plus, Olivier award–winning actress Celia Imrie discusses her latest novel 'Meet Me at Rainbow Corner'. You can listen to the playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3qIjhtS9sprg864IXC96he?si=uOzz4UYZRc2nFOP8FV_1jg&pi=BGoacntaS_uki If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

She says, oh, I just, I'm really, the first thing I do is I'll have a whack-wagammas. I mean, it was just, as soon as she said, she started to say wagamama, she realised how this might be interpreted. Hi there, it's Dan Snow, host of the Dan Snow's History Hit podcast. It is officially summer here in Europe. I would love for you to accompany me on a history lover's holiday vacation around this continent. On my podcast throughout August, I'll be your guide to Europe's most iconic historical hotspots. From the bell towers of Paris's Notre Dame Cathedral to the streets of Pompeii, to the Gladiator's Coliseum in Rome.

We'll walk in the footsteps of Anne Berlin at the Tower of London. We will unravel the mysteries of the Minowans on the island of Crete. Let me narrate your historic summer on Dan Snow's History, wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, yeah, I mean, that's sometimes how I feel. How do I keep so cheerful? I think it's because I just don't acknowledge 90% of what's going on in my head. It's the best way to do it. Why have I got a Jalen Fee muff and you don't?

Because Celia Emery's going to be such. Yes, we're doing a showbiz interview later. Welcome to Offair. Little Jane Markerans is in. Just warming the seat for Celia. Yeah, well, Celia, Imrie, will be sitting in that seat. Oh, wow. I'll tell you what, we've got a star-studded week here on off-air. Because it's Celia today, and you, of course.

Me, yep. And tomorrow, it's Nicola Sturchin, and then on Thursday, Val McDermid. Good Lord. It's almost Scottish week here on Off-Air. I mean, it's not like a normal August, is it? There is no barrel scraping going on. But there used to be quiet August. They don't exist anymore.

Oh, I mean, they really don't exist anymore. I mean, what's the matter, Eve? Next week, it's not looking second. Well, that's not very good news for either listeners or people we've booked. Or who get booked. No, no, no, no. There'll be some amazing ones who come out of the woodwork and you'll be, yeah, great. I've got faith in Eve.

She always pulls it out of the bag. Oh, no, you're on holidays. It's not why it's all gone to sit up. It's all. It's all and she's bugging off. Right. In my very young days, as a very junior reporter, are working across the whole

of Herefordshire and Worcestershire don't knock it, beautiful. But this time of year genuinely, wow, it was quiet. It really would be. That would be, and that's when you just beg for the phone to ring and there'd been another sighting

of the Worcestershire Wildcat. And then you think, oh, thank God. That's another couple of days of material fabulous. Never did find that cat. I mean, I don't know whether it's still out there or whether indeed the sightings did coincide with lunchtime drinking.

I've never worked it out But anyway You would literally It would be as still as a pond For days on end Oh god Yeah but how lovely I mean I dream of those days

Anyway it's nice to see you in person Yes You'll be glad to know that my scyving afternoon Went very well yesterday I liked your description of your faffing Oh god yeah You'd approve my faffing Oh god but Jane I can have a whole weekend of that

I mean particularly What was it you said you were rearranging your supplements Just moving them from one service to another Yeah, I do a lot of that. You can whine away. And I have got various different, very scented counter cleaners. Oh, nice. I can spend ages applying them.

Various services. Boughing up various services. And suddenly it's Hoppers 3 and you think, well, what have I done today? It's very satisfying. It's the thing that I find hardest when I'm working really, really hard and don't have much time off, like when you don't have weekend days, I just miss a fath. Yeah. It's not that I miss anything particularly big.

I just find there's a mental calming. Is there? It's a faffing, isn't there? You just reminded me, and I don't know why, of a brilliant thing I saw on social media, of the England Women's Rugby Union team. They're building up to the Rugby Union Women's World Cup. They are.

And England are very, very good. Yes. So, look, he is hoping. But it was very funny. I think it was just one of that sort of gentle Q&A, or they might even be doing a podcast. But one player on stage said to the other one, what are you looking forward to most when you go home?

And have you seen this? And she says, oh, I just, I'm really, the first thing I do is I'll have a wagamamas. But it was just, as soon as she said, she started to say Wagamama, she realized how this might be interpreted. And she falls about laughing. Her mate falls about laughing.

And you just think, actually, I'm really glad they've put that out. Yeah. Because we need more of this sort of, we need, you know, it's just good. It's really good to get that material out there. Anyway, let's move on. still getting emails about North Berwick and we just want to say again for the umpteenth time

how lovely it was to see so many people I just have a view here from somebody who says bear with oh lord oh can I just well I wait to find the appropriate one just worth saying that somebody has said that like me thank you Jess who describes herself as relieved of Tumbridge Wells she's just not that interested in nature programs I've tried all my life to enjoy nature programs Jane and I just can't get down with them and Jess says I feel exactly the same but I always to feel really guilty that I haven't bought my three daughters up to watch them and I always had to stay very quiet back in my lead student house which I shared with a zoologist and an environmental geographer who's idea of a great night in was watching an Attenborough documentary I know they're

really beautifully filmed says Jess yeah they are with important messages about the natural world also true But I want Tully to be entertaining and relaxing and have a story I can lose myself in. Yeah, Jess, I'm 100% with you and thank you for sharing my... I have to say very unpopular and not particularly impressive lack of interested in nature programme.

I feel the same about historical novels. Oh, do you? Oh, I don't mind those. No, and I think it's some sort of moral failing on my part that I don't like historical novel. It just bores me. Can't you lose yourself in the Tudors, darling? What is the matter?

I really can't. I really can't. I mean, I managed three quarters of the marriage portrait, which is, you know, excellent. I mean, I literally, there's no Maggie O'Farrel I've ever met that I didn't race through. But that one... I didn't quite finish the marriage portrait. Well, where does history start for you then?

Do you draw the line at World War II? Where is it? Well, that's true. I mean, yeah, I suppose... What's the lovely one that's set in Florence? Sarah Wynman, the beautiful one saying World War II in Florence? I mean, I guess that's a historical novel, isn't it? But I suppose anything...

I suppose I don't really like anything pre-20th century. Do you know what it is? I don't like reimagining of things through a historical perspective. Right. I don't mind an old story. Yeah. But I just don't want...

Oh, well, you like what... You be you, hon. I like a contemporary writer, you know. I like an all fours, Jane. Yeah, well, that's... Now that is... I do know who wrote that a little, it'll come to me. Miranda July.

Very good. Is that a made-up name? Is that a made-up name? No. Okay. It just sounds a little bit like it might be. Not a fan then No I don't know I haven't read it

Oh Jane it's great I might buy it for you next birthday Oh well okay well it's coming up When it's not really coming up No I might just buy it for you anyway Yeah well that would be a nice gesture This is about I do know what it's about

It's about a woman who leaves her life And goes on a road trip Yeah so she And things turn frantic But all I'll say is if I went on a road trip It wouldn't turn frantic Anyway how did it how did it happen to her So she is kind of

Yeah perimenopausal and she's meant to drive from L.A. where she lives to New York, to see a friend, and she gets to the nearest town, like literally about 10 miles from her own home. So she doesn't go far? Sort of ends up attracted to a very young man who works at the car rental place, and then she basically lives in a motel room for a long period of time and does it up. And then, anyway, there's some filthy sex scenes. What do you mean she does it up?

I mean, I'm like... Exactly. It's all a bit hilarious and mad. So she gets permission from the owner of the motel to apply a lick of paint to her room? You'll have to read it, Jane, when I buy it for you. Okay, and then there's some, okay, great sexies, right? Okay, involved in. I didn't say great, I said filthy.

Okay. You'll be back next week. Catherine says, great conversation between you two, that's Fia and I, with Judy Murray last Friday. Glad it all went well, she says, however, what you probably couldn't see from the stage was there were probably a few hundred women in the middle section of the tent

who kept nervously looking up at the lighting gantry which was swinging and banging against the main support of the big top it was rather windy and everything was swaying a bit too much for our liking we thought it might all come toppling down at any moment well it's interesting you mentioned that katherine i was i was dimly aware certainly of the high wind although because of the stench around north berwick I suppose I was more focused on that than on the very considerable breeze blowing.

I was there with a friend, said Catherine, and I whispered to her, well, if this is the end, it's not a bad way to go. Listening to Jane and Fee by the sea. Oh, God. I mean, Catherine, we'd never have come to that. But thank you so much for bothering. I guess you also could...

You wouldn't do another live show if that had it happened, would you? That'll be it for the live shows. In fairness, it probably wouldn't be... I guess you also couldn't see the pigeon, which kept flying over us and perching on different ledges ready to poop over all the well-heeled ladies in the audience it was quite a memorable morning says Catherine right well you were very brave and thank you for bearing with

we were talking yesterday about Bonnie Blue yes we had some more emails isn't we yeah we've had some emails in about that dear Jane and Fian I'm a long-time listener first-time emailer oh is it still in Tenerative Eve it's not bad Do we know... There's going to be a right colour when it comes back. It will probably... It will have gone for one of those all-inclusives, weren't it?

So the jingle's going to come back very, very red with still wearing the all-inclusive bracelet thing. Yeah. Whereas flying into Luton. So we... It's fallen in love. It's on holiday... It's not falling in love.

What a load of rubbish. So if you come across our jingle... Send it home. Send it home. Tenor Reef is the most recent location. But I suppose... an affair with a waiter, might not be completely... Would that be possible?

It's that kind of a jingle. This is more than a flight of fancy now. Right, press on. Listen to your section on Bonnie Blue and heard you mention porn again today. I'm a 50-something woman who enjoys watching porn. I'm single with an on-off boyfriend who've been through a horrible breast cancer journey

and have an altered body image as a result of surgeries which has really dented my confidence, says our listener. This and my ongoing treatment has left my libido lacking and I used to love sex. So I have found something that's helped me get my libido back to nearly normal, porn. However, says our listener, I do watch ethical porn, brackets Erica Lust. It's created by women and shows sensual and pleasurable sex. A lot of the films are made by real couples,

and you can see the care and love between them. I have read about Bonnie Blue, and I agree with you that she is unwell. She claims herself that she doesn't feel emotions like the rest of us. Her desire to sleep with barely legal men, i.e. boys, is how she positions her brand. It is beyond words. The media need to stop talking about her, and hopefully she will fall to obscurity. I believe there needs to be more stringent laws about what is acceptable to be put on film, made publicly available, and definitely title laws about accessibility to such images.

Our listener says next time I'll write in about pets or baking something more wholesome. I think that's a really interesting point from our listener. I have interviewed Erica last. Yeah. I never have, but I've commissioned pieces with her. And she's not the only one making ethical porn. we've actually, I'm commissioning another piece where a writer's actually going to go and make her own

kind of ethical porn film with a film company that make them. So this is going to be in the Times Magazine. It will be. Yes. We're back to Fruity Friday. I always think of it as fruity, no, it's not Fruity Friday, it's Fruity Thursdays. Yeah, when you come on to the Times Radio program

and tell us what's going to be in the magazine as part of our weekend bundle, although mine's normally nicked, on a Saturday. And it's just worth saying, can I just put the point of you, there is quite a lot of stuff about sex, polyamory, porn in that magazine, Jane. There is. And I know you'd make a spirited

defence of including that content, but it's just worth noting, some of our correspondence have noted. And I, you know, in all honesty, I sometimes have a bit of a laugh to myself when I go and visit my mum and dad in the shelter of the house. And I see their copy on the Times Magazine, I think, oh my God, I haven't read it.

Imagine what my parents think. Well, I'm having met them. I'm sure they're completely at ease with it, Jane, I really am. No, I mean, let's just, can we just be honest about how much sex sells in every way, whether we're concerned about pornography, whether we're just interested in the subject. I mean, people click on it, people want to read about it, even if they're not prepared to admit it to themselves or indeed to the wider public. No, well, there is, can I just read the second email about porn?

Because I think there's two brilliant emails, thank you both for writing in. I'm not going to name either of you just. because it's quite personal, these emails. Interesting perspective on porn. The second email about this, dear Jane and Jane, I don't see how anyone could argue that the ubiquity of online content, the violence of it, and the age that they get exposed to it,

is in any way positive for anyone, especially the young, although Bonnie Blue did try her best to justify it. My thoughts are around how mainstream users moved so quickly from a few adult magazines tucked on the top shelf of news agents, and the odd VHS tape doing the rounds to the situation we've ended up in today. Well, it's because, you know, obviously online platforms

make a lot of money from it. That's exactly why. Our listener says, which I think is really interesting, she says, I think another factor for this rapid change was that women were almost entirely absent from the conversation. Despite decades of sexual liberation for women, talking about using or enjoying porn, seems to be one of the last taboos.

Our listener says, in all the slightly drunken conversations I've had with friends about sex when we were in our 20s, and really looking for reassurance that we were doing more or less the same things as everybody else. The topic of porn never once came up and it's not something I even noticed

and if a good friend did bring it up now I would probably lie and say it didn't do anything for me and at most admit to viewing something maybe once or twice when a partner brought it round whereas for me it would be something to enjoy sometimes in the same way as trying something else different. For clarity I'm not talking here about anything hardcore but it can be sensual, it can be empowering

and I remember you once interviewing a female director I think that was Erica Lust who attempts to produce content exactly like that to appeal more to women but it's sadly outnumbered I can't think of a single human need, instinct or preference that is split so sharply down gender lines as porn is commonly assumed to be so the logical assumption is that a reasonable percentage of women

do enjoy it and feel they have to lie or possibly could enjoy it but have been conditioned to think it would be the start of a journey into depravity. Enjoying and discussing a book like 50 Shades though is so acceptable Well, it's practically book club fodder. I think this is really interesting. I actually did a podcast about, I think the title of the podcast for the story,

Our Times podcast, was Women Watch Porn 2, so why aren't we talking about it? And I think, you know, it is true. I don't know how many women would watch porn, would seek out porn if they had to go and buy it from a top shelf in a newsagency, which is what I think is interesting. But the ubiquity of online porn means, you know, women access is too.

No one's going to know. but I think women do I think anecdotally women do look at different sorts of porn the men do it's a lot less violent

it's a lot more sensual it's a lot of lesbian porn actually which all women can work yeah yeah can I just I mean I'm just going to be completely honest to say that my personal you lived experience of porn is very limited

I have seen it though I'm not going to pretend I haven't and if you watch something on port if you watch very mainstream porn hub, and this is again my very crude assessment of what I've seen, it is stuff done by men to women. Oh yeah, exactly. And if you watch something that Erica Lust, or one of her colleagues or cohort has produced, it is stuff that is men and women, because I think I've only, I think Erica Lust, it could be wrong, don't know, I've certainly watched straight porn produced by

Erica Lust. It is men pleasuring women, bringing pleasure to them, involving them. Guess what? We're having some agency and choice in the latter. Women are supposed to enjoy it. Who knew? But I was absolutely horrified by, you know, you just don't have to go far on porn hub to find some truly horrendous content.

Which was about as erotic to me as a, you know, I mean, unbelievably crude and violent it looked like. And that's dead mainstream, really mainstream. And it can't, and then, you know, going back to all of the arguments that, you know, everyone's been putting against, you know, body bully. I mean, it can't help but normalise sexual violence and, you know, the idea that this is kind of normal practice and sex.

And that is the mainstream, that's what mainstream porn is. Yeah. You know, as you say, it's men doing things to women, whether they like it or not. Yeah, well, but I do think it's so interesting that point about whether women who will talk to each other about almost anything, most of us who see our female friends very regularly,

that probably is an area that we haven't, strayed into or if we have we're not completely honest no as our listener says we talk about erotic literature we'd probably talk about erotic podcasts which are very popular amongst women in a huge area audio eroticism

but we probably don't talk about watching porn no I think you're absolutely right can we just mention Vicky in my all-girls grammar school in Worcester I was also recommended a career as an assistant prison governor when I did that test it was the mid-1980s I thought I was special Vicky, you turn out to be one of many, many hundreds of thousands of people who were troll told that they might be a good assistant prison government.

Really? Yeah. Apparently there was this career's questionnaire that you filled in most everybody, particularly the women, were told assistant prison governor. Wow. That's the one for you. Well, I'm on the opposite side of it because I actually applied for the fast-track prison governor scheme, the civil service fast-track prison governor scheme when my newspaper closed about a decade and a half ago. And I failed my online mathematical reasoning test. Oh, that's an odd one. Why did you...

Why did I apply? I'm surprised you failed. And also, I'm not really certain why that would be an essential part of the package required. I guess you need to count them in and out till the exercise yard. I hadn't thought about that. But you're right. People would be escaping over the wall. You wouldn't have a clue.

Sitting there all daffy. I think there were 11. Ong on. Okay. And why did that line of work appeal? So I used to volunteer in strange ways in my gap year. I spent my gap year working in Strangeries and a homeless centre in Manchester

and I always had a sense of the prison system as I met a lot of prison governors basically because then when I became a journalist I went to visit a lot of prisons and I just have always thought it's the one thing I would quite like to do if I wasn't a journalist

quite bossy like keys, no seriously I think that if you have empathy yeah and I think if you thank you I met so many really inspiring governors and I think if you are a good governor working within unfortunately a very difficult system

but I think you can make a huge contribution to turning people's lives around and you can really affect change at a very grassroots level in terms of what happens to people when they are released unfortunately I think it's just been hollowed out in terms of funding and resources

and so yeah in some ways I'm quite glad I failed my online mathematical reasoning test because I think it would be very frustrating Yeah, not an easy job right now, I don't think No, it's funny, lots of journalists I mean, I've been in prisons as well and it's strange because we probably know more about obviously I don't, I know almost nothing about prisons

but I have been in them and the overwhelming majority of the population close their minds to the reality of and in fact can be incredibly judgmental both about the people who end up there and about the people who work there and like you, I did meet some amazing people in that system and interviewed them who just really passionately cared

and you just meet people whose lives were just you know they were never unfortunately they were never going to it was almost from day one their destiny would be that something terrible would happen and they'd wind up in a jail you know you just god I mean life is just bloody cruel it's interesting that our interview that we had last week with Bella Jackson who'd written this book called Fragile Minds about her experience of working in the mental health

system in the UK. We've had a surprising, I have to be honest, a surprising number of emails about that interview from people who are right behind her and from people who have taken issue with what she has said about working particularly in psychiatric hospitals. But this is just one from a listener who says, based on my experience as a patient in psychiatric hospitals, a major issue I have consistently encountered is severe understaffing. More often than not, there were more temporary or bank staff than permanent nurses or true healthcare professionals. And one of the most important aspects of mental health treatment for me has been feeling safe. When you're unwell, your environment plays a critical role in supporting or hindering your recovery. If you don't feel

physically or emotionally safe, it becomes much harder to open up or engage in the recovery process. Sadly, I rarely felt that sense of safety, especially when I couldn't trust that the person caring for me was properly trained or even suitable for the roles. There were times I was placed on one-to-one observation after being hospitalized following a suicide attempt only for the bank healthcare assistant assigned to me to fall asleep or leave sharp objects lying around. I mean, I'm so sorry to hear about all of your experiences.

That's really grim. She says, I could share countless stories of malpractice, but that's not to say that I haven't encountered some truly compassionate and competent professionals because I have. I just want to make sure that we included that final sentiment from that listener because I would say that we've had an equal split of people who say, look, I thought Bella was too critical and people who've written to say, you know what, I'm afraid I agree with everything she said. So I suppose if you've been inside a psychiatric hospital, whether as a patient or a visitor, you can tell us what you thought. Yeah. Again, it's a place that I think most people are fortunate enough not to have an experience of. Well, actually, this is another useful one from a listener who says,

my mom was a manic depressive and had many breakdowns when we were children. Social services didn't take much care of me and my brothers then. It was traumatic for everybody. Nevertheless, my mom was frequently taken to a huge Victorian mental hospital. it would have been called an asylum back then for treatment. As imposing the building as the building was, the nursing staff were wonderfully caring and compassionate. I was only nine when Dad took me and the boys to visit Mom during her first stay there.

She was really, really funny and so entertaining in her manic phase before her medication brought her onto an more even keel. Even in later years when smaller, more modern facilities were the norm, I remained very impressed with the care and compassion my mom was given by the various nursing staff. I was therefore rather disappointed by what your guest Bella Jackson had to share. Nevertheless, thank you for including that interview. I don't mind if you use my name, she says. Oh, it's Carol Ann.

Thank you, Caroline. My mum's been gone for over 20 years, and it's worth saying when she was well, she was a real delight. Well, Caroline, thank you for that. and yeah how brilliant that you say that your mum was actually wonderful when she was okay but through no fault of her own she sometimes wasn't

no and good to hear that even back in the days of calling them an asylum that there was people who were compassionate and caring and yeah asylum asylum originally means place of safety right of course it does I mean they should have been they should have been I know they weren't always

coming in from Rachel in reference to Hannah our lovely physicist who's second email we read out yesterday. Rachel says, I enjoyed the letter from the 24-year-old physicist with her rebellious pink lipstick. I'm a maths lecturer,

so also in quite a male-dominated field. I recently had a conversation with a female colleague about how we both like wearing dresses. But we also both feel, are we letting ourselves down when we do? Sometimes it can feel like you're allowed to be a woman in maths and science, but only if you're a sensible,

not too girly, sort of a woman. Rachel says years ago, shortly after my PhD, I was preparing to give a talk to a load of geophysicists and an older male colleague pointed at my laptop case, which had a sort of abstract pattern on it and said, don't you think that's a bit girly? Will people take you seriously? Rachel says, this is brilliant. I pointed at my ample bosom and said, well, if they don't work it out from the laptop case, they'll probably get it from these. He never questioned any of my fashion or accessory choices since. He was definitely one of the good ones, but still a bit of

of a twirp from time to time, says Rachel. Things feel much more balanced now, but I still get talked over a lot. I mean, what? And struggle to have my ideas heard. I mean, unbelievable. I recently took in a role as an external examiner to a different university,

and in meetings whenever I so much as draw breath, everyone turns and hushes to hear what I might have to say. It's a very strange experience. Well, just in case you might suddenly recite a knitting pattern or something. Not that I'm denigrating knitting, by the way, wonderful craft. I just think that idea that you just get talked over because it's just common practice.

I mean, unbelievable. We had a shocking man-spreader on the tube this morning. Anonymous, please, says Anonymous. I'm a female engineering graduate, now with a successful role in a large mechanical engineering and construction organisation. I don't wear anything these days

as a female rebel. However, as a student, I had a tiny and continuous rebellion. I absolutely refused to play pool in the student union bar which was seen to be an engineering student read nerdy male thing to do and a few decades later

I have still never played thank you for that anonymous you stick it out I mean you're not missing that much I don't think you are either I'd like to hear from people who've just stubbornly not done things I'm just loads of things

no I'm gonna think about why I'm not doing that I actually I am very inconsistent, but I have said that I'm not interested in hearing from people who aren't interested in things. And that's true. That's so much. Thank you. Thank you very much. But I am interested in people who just won't do things.

I'll tell you what I am angry about at the moment. I said my 22-year-old living at home at the moment, and she's working. I'm working. I get home before she does, right? So there just seems to be the assumption that I will provide. Today, this morning, I just said, I'm sorry, due to the heat, there will be no meal offered.

No hot dinner. There will be no hot meal. So when you come in, I suggest you just... I will put stuff in the fridge, as you yourself could. And you could help yourself to whatever is available. But what I will not do is use the expression, picky bits. But that kind of is what I mean. Don't say it, because I've said it once and that's enough.

But when did people start saying this? I don't know. I hate it. It's definitely in the band list downstairs. Absolutely in the band list. Oh, my God. I think we might be writing a piece about all the things with the people, you know, the things, the uncall things for summer.

Picky bits is definitely on the list. I mean, you say there's no such thing as a quiet August, but in features. Good features at the Times Magazine. No picky bits. We've managed to spread. Don't, you've just said it's going to go across five pages. God.

I will say that I am a bit of a cooking refusenik even for myself. So snacky tea. Well, snacky tea is marginally better. Snacky tea. Worked year round for me. Not just an hot August. I will say in the winter I'm more inclined to, you know, make something, you know, warm. But, you know, from between April and October, I mean, ham cheese, crackers, olives.

Bag and rocket. Yeah, that's a great dinner. It's more than adequate. It really is. A little bit of olive cheer batter if you've got some left over from Gales, you know. Here's Anonymous, who has a confession to make. She's just returned from her first visit to North Berwick. Senior Emery's coming up very soon.

People are interested in notice. despians and I can see from Eve's expression that she's possibly beginning to have heard enough. This listener says, I'm going to get into this. I was interested in your listener's memories of childhood sports. I left primary school in the 60s and it never occurred to me to want to play football. I went to an unusual school in a mill. Do you bad about this? No. You were too young. You started on the ground floor and left from the top. So there was one class on every floor. The fire escape from the top, which we used daily, was very exciting. We had riding lessons and we had maths lessons and we played netball on the field. I later realised we played

by unusual rules, including rugby tackles and rolling around in the mud. Netball. We used to play rough games at playtime. Stuck in the mud was really quite violent and unfortunately and here's the confession bit, we broke, we girls broke, Simon Hawkins' leg. Right. We don't know which part of the world this is. After that, girls and boys' playgrounds were set up to protect the boys from us. Yeah, the ages of 9 and 10, the girls were actually quite often a bit heftier than the boys who hadn't started to grow.

I've no idea what happened to Simon. I hope his leg isn't giving him problems now. Right, okay, well, Simon, I mean, it's... relatively common name. So I hope he's all right. How is your leg, Simon? 50 years on. Anonymous is very sorry about that little bit of horseplay

that ended so badly. Rough housing. Yeah, rough housing. Went to happen to your school, would it? Yeah, my primary school is pretty rough house, actually. Was it? Yeah. She's come through everybody and now works for the times in London.

Anything is possible. Have you got one more? I do. This comes in from Jodie. Should this be read out, please say hello to my sister Alison, who will most likely be listening during her evening kitchen clear-up after her girls have gone to bed. So hello, Alison, from us both and your sister Jody.

Jody says I felt compelled to write in as a counterpoint after hearing all the stories of repressed female sporting ambitions. I was at a primary school in Devon in the late 80s and early 90s. It was a mixed school. We had two football teams, one for the girls and one for the boys. As part of the girls' team, I played various other local schools, which also had a girls' team, and even played in a girls' tournament

at the home ground of Tauke United. In 1994, I moved to an all-girls secondary school in Devon, which also had a football team. We went on trips to Aston Villa, including a few hours at Cabri's World, on the way, presumably. I've been there. Have you been there? Never been there.

It's a good attraction. Which, in all honesty, was why I went on the trips, said Choddy, to watch the men's game. I've no doubt we would have gone on to watch the women's game, had it been something we'd been able to do 30 years ago. Was Devon more progressive? Feels unlikely, but I didn't

a moment, I feel I couldn't take behind anything, sporting or otherwise, because I'm female. I wasn't allowed to play for the boys' basketball team at school, even though I was very good. Oh, dear. Yep. And what were the grounds on which they banned you from? Being a girl. Just being a girl. Yeah.

Okay. I tell you, what, and thank you for that, but Devon does sound incredibly progressive. What is really saddening is that you, I've noticed in the Times, and indeed in all other newspapers, I read quite a few every day, women have just vanished now from the sports pages. They were omnipresent during Euro 2025. And I suppose I'd begun to take that for granted. And now we've got occasional references to Emma Raducanu and nothing else. I know. Which is why it would actually be quite good when the Rugby World Cup starts

and we actually start seeing them back. And I hope there's decent coverage of that. But it is a bit sad. I mean, I love men's football. I'm not going to pretend I don't, but... I feel like women have disappeared from a lot of places. Politics, sport. All over the place, really.

Controversial stuff from Jane Mulcarrens. And she'll be back as part of Offer. tomorrow. Don't you disappear, darling. Where would we be without you? I'd have to talk to about cleaner. Yes, that's true. Let's move on then to the big guest, who is Celia Imrey, and Celia's remarkable. She has the temerity to be a supremely gifted performer and a best-selling novelist. The paperback edition of Meet Me at Rainbow Corner, which is set in the Second World War, is out this week. She's also, of course, the star of great films, like the Best Exotic Marigold Hotel. But you, like me,

might remember her most fondly as Babs, the proprietor of Victoria Woods' epic soap emporium acorn antiques. Celia's also about to start in the Thursday Murder Club. That is the film adaptation of Richard Osmond's best-selling book, of course, and Celia is going to compete in Celebrity Traitors, which is on telly in the autumn. She is a very, very busy woman. I asked her if she was enjoying it all. I loving it, yes. I couldn't be happier, busy. Yes. It's Is that your big dread not to be busy? It is a bit, actually. I also love not knowing what's coming next.

Well, I'm going to ask you, that's a sneaky old question later in the interview about what's coming next. But people will know that you've got a big Netflix event coming in a couple of weeks' time. But we want to also talk about your novel, which is out on Thursday in paperback. And in this dizzying heat,

what could be more comforting than the idea of settling down with your novel? It is about World War II, so it's not entirely peaceful. No. It's called Meet Me at Rainbow Corner and well you can tell us first of all about your fascination with this time in our history I mean lots of us are interested and I'm reading this I wanted whether I was and I've got to be careful how you phrased this I was almost jealous that I wasn't around at the time I know exactly what you mean do you okay yes yeah well because the thing is it's so really difficult to imagine isn't it it's like no other time and and very hard for us too, because they really did go to bed and wake up wondering if they'd still be alive the next day. But it was so heartening to realize that everybody pulled together, everybody did their bit. And the bulk of the beginning of this story, Meat Beat,

Rainbow Corner, is really from Fidelis Morgan, who collaborates on the book with me in a huge way, from her mother's letters. Well, I could not be. believe the story of this lady, Fidelis' mum. Tell everybody about her. Well, she's also Fidelis Morgan. That's her name. She was 17. She was a Red Cross nurse and she couldn't wait to join up, which it seems lots of people of that age were so keen and lots of people lost their lives. And she tells stories of heartbreaking things she had to deal with as a nurse. You know, young boys of 17 who'd lost their arms, who'd lost their legs,

but they had a great spirit and they were looking forward to their holiday. Fidelis reads out some of the letters when we do an event in the theatre, and honestly, it cracks you up. Well, I had no idea. The level of suffering, so Fidelis's mother also called Fidelis.

Fidelis Morgan. Which is in itself, fantastic, by the way. Yes. She lost three separate fiancés, three different young men die. They all fell in love with her because she was an absolute beauty But yes, and they were all young And yes, one after the other, I'm afraid, by the end of the war, all dead

So actually it was very hard for her when victory was announced Because actually it was probably, and I think I'm right in saying The same day as she got yet another letter With a blue cross on the envelope Return to send her and the person deceased And it was a miserable way of it. finding out. That's really brutal, isn't it? Isn't it? Or otherwise you get a very formal letter from the war office, you know, saying, I'm very sorry to hear our condolences, you know, ghastly.

But we, you know, what they lived through. But there is joy as well as heartache and huge courage. Yes, well that's what I was going to say. We must never, ever forget the suffering and the loss. But it sounds intoxicating. I know. And there's, At the heart of this novel is the friendship between two very, very different women. And that's the other thing that struck me about this time was that the classes mixed. People met people, they would never, ever have come across. And actually it changed the country forever, didn't it? It's true.

Dot, one of our heroes, is based on Fidelis's mum. She is a nurse from Liverpool. She knows all the American music, so she's the most perfect choice when she is persuaded by her sister at the hospital to go and volunteer as a dance partner in Rainbow Corner. Which is a club for... Well, yes. It was right in the heart of Piccadilly Circus.

Rainbow Corner was especially invented for the GIs who came over to help us. It was an extraordinary place. It had no rationing. So they were treated like gods, really, with 24-hour doughnuts. I couldn't believe that they had a doughnut machine. Yes. So you can imagine the smell as you go in. They also had a wonderful welcome map of America at the reception

so that you could arrive and put your little red pin wherever in the map you came from. And so if you saw another person for Wisconsin, you would seek them out and you would find each other. And then they had Fred Astaire's sister was on the desk and a lot of people came over and volunteered. It was a hive of activity and a glorious. and a glorious place

and the dancing is very important actually because of course the Americans they didn't want to fox trot and waltz they wanted to go mad and have Count Basie and you know the jitterbug music going on which was very joyful and kept them going

and they needed suitable dance companions and what I didn't know I learnt a lot from this actually was that young women young British women suitable would be plucked and actually more or less ordered to become their dance partners. Yes.

Well, certainly in the story, Dot's sister on the ward said, what do you do in your spare time? I think you should go along to Rainbow Corner and volunteer yourself. And that's how she met her boyfriend. Lily, the other heroine, is loosely based on my mother,

bit posher, coming from Hampshire. She used to drive ambulances in the war, like the Queen. and my mother played the violin to the troops but yes those two women people described them as extraordinary they were extraordinary because of what they did but actually they were quite ordinary

but as you quite rightly said they could well not have met in their social lives but they come together they both have individual paths during the war and come together a little bit you know, every now and again. But it is to try to imagine what it was like in those days.

I hope from the research that Fidelis has done and from the letters we've managed to paint as realistic picture as we can. Yeah, because not everybody was on side. I mean, there were, and we forget this at our peril. There were Nazi sympathisers in Britain at some very senior level.

actually. I know. It's horrifying, isn't it? Well, it is horrifying. I know. We do need to be reminded of that, I think, sometimes. I know. I know. And the domestic spies we discovered, not necessarily high level, but, I mean, there's a housewife on the Al of White true story. And she used to deliver information as far up as she could to let the Germans know where the troops were going. I mean it's quite an intricate operation going on and they were being listened to because there was a wonderful man who encouraged them to come forward with all their information and then of course they thought he was passing it on to the Germans

of course he wasn't well thank goodness he wasn't so it's actually it's an amazing chunk of World War II experience which I didn't know about and then it's worth saying too that some of the British women who went over to America were so-called GI brides. Yes. I mean, they didn't have the easiest time either, did they? No. Well, for a start, they had to...

It was a very poignant thing I read about how they all had to say goodbye to their mothers and fathers on Waterloo Station. And the mothers and fathers were not allowed to come any further. Then they went to Tidworth Camp and that was pretty grim, having their passports and, you know, and of course quite a lot of them had little young children by then

and hadn't seen their fiancés or husbands for about a year then they had the whole trip across the ocean which some didn't take too very well and then if you can imagine the smell of nappies and everything you know but then they get to New York and I'm afraid to say some husbands weren't there some had decided oh I did I get married over in England, I don't remember that bit.

So poor darlings, it didn't all go well. And then they had the huge great journey across America, which I've done actually on the train, so it's a wonderful journey. But they didn't know what they were going to. They hadn't met their husband's parents who might not take kindly to them. I mean, the things I've read were we've taken real stories

and put into the book. Because, you know, hopefully some were marvellous ending, but not all. No, and that's always worth bearing in mind. You are, of course, known, I was going to say, mainly for your acting. I hope you don't mind me saying that. No, not. You've had great success with your books, I should say. But your acting is a huge significance, actually.

I really want to talk about Victoria Wood. And actually, by pure coincidence, brilliantly, there is a whole evening dedicated to her on BBC 4 tonight. Gosh. I know. Did you know that? I did not. Nine o'clock tonight on BBC 4. So they're showing, I think, her favourite bits, her favourite sketches.

Oh, lovely. Starting at nine. So if anybody's a fan, they obviously will know you as Babs, in hapless owner of Acorn Antiques. I don't think I'm the only woman of my age who really misses Victoria Wood. Oh, no, of course not. And you obviously knew her. Yes.

But just how significant was she in your life? Well, huge, really. I mean, I will be forever grateful to her because, you know, she, I would say, you know, put me on the map in the comedy world, I suppose, which I love. And also she was very generous, first of all, giving away such brilliant lines that she wrote,

but also gathering a little team together. We weren't very many of us, but it made a huge difference because when we came back each season, we knew each other, we could work much faster we knew how Victoria worked and she was extremely strict

quite rightly because she wrote like music so it had to be everything was completely every beat oh yes absolutely punctuation word but it was great because we met up again and again and it meant it was

a wonderful way of working because we all had fun trusted each other but it was tough I mean, we, lots of it, we never did in front of an audience because, you know, the discipline of, well, keeping a straight face for me generally. I mean, yes. Well, Acorn Antiques.

I mean, you didn't have to have watched Crossroads to enjoy Acorn Antiques, but if you, like me, had watched Crossroads and then saw the... You saw the similarity? Well, it's just brilliant. Well, I'm based on Noel Gordon, of course. Of course, yes. And poor Miss Bowdo, she did try, but it was no good when she picked up the telephone and it started still ringing.

You know. She never got that right. She, none of her customers ever bought a thing. Did Acorn Antiques go bust in the end? It must have done. Must have done. Same two customers, if you watch carefully. Same husband and wife.

They never bought a thing. Oh, dear. Well, if you do know more about what happened to Acorn Antiques, please do feel free to contact Times Radio or the podcast. But just to alert people, if they have the BBC at home, they can enjoy that tonight and on their other facilities. Now, you are also starring in the Thursday Murder Club,

your Joyce. I was a bit surprised. It's not going to cinemas or will it at some point? It's going straight to Netflix. No, no, no. I think there's going to be one precious week in the cinema. Right. Which is glorious.

And maybe it might last a bit longer. I don't know. But anyway, I think it would be worth seeing on the big screen. Well, this is just in case anybody doesn't know, this is the film adaptation of the Richard Osmond book. Remind us who Joyce is the character that you play. Well, she's the new girl in the group. So she's an ex-nource.

Luckily, I've got two angels sisters in my life who helped me with all the sort of how the training was and I'd watched them growing up. So your actual sisters? My actual sisters are both nurses. so I remember their training and I was on the telephone to ask them any more hints that I could get

but Joyce is at the beginning of the book very much the new girl and so that I had to pretend I didn't know Dame Helen or didn't know of peers we've all worked together before I hadn't worked with Sir Ben Kingsley but it was quite fun pretending not to know each other

you see what I mean Yes, okay. I mean, it's quite the cast you've got there. I know. Do you think that you would actually get on well in sheltered housing in later life? No, I don't. Sorry, I'm allowed to say I'm going to get in such trouble. Why does it not appeal to you? I don't know. Well, actually, I mean, look, when you see it, it's absolute luxury.

It really is. Beautiful grounds and everything. I don't know. I think really and truly it's because I still think I'm 22. so I think that that day is never going to come but I'm sure I'd be very grateful if I was looked after of course but I sort of pretend that's not happening I you know I don't want to look that far at the moment have you always had this attitude

yes yeah I mean I genuinely I don't know how old you are so I'm not okay so well everybody else asks but anyway I never lie but you know it's childish really of me I know but in terms of You'll see in the film, in terms of, you know, a place to go in later life, this couldn't be more luxurious, truly. Well, except the murder rate is...

Ah, yes, that's a bit of a problem. But we wouldn't have a film without it, so... Well, no, except I don't think... They don't... Oh, no, they don't... Okay, I'm not going to tell any more, because I don't want to spoil it. Who do you... Of the other cast members, Piersce Brosnan, Ben Kingsley, Helen Mirren, Who do you think would succeed and would perhaps become social secretary at a sheltered housing complex

whenever they are anywhere near old enough to enter one? Well, actually, I mean, they do pretty well. All of us do pretty well once we're there. But, I mean, I suspect that in real life, if I can say that, there probably aren't quite such adventurous things going on. Well, let's hope they're aren't. No, no, quite. So, you know, but I think they do pretty well.

As a team, we do pretty well. Isn't there, there is a kind of retirement home for older performers, isn't that? Yes, Denville Hall. Yeah, which it's actually hugely important because not everybody makes a vast living, do they? No, no, it's wonderful. And they have, you know, new wings being built, you know, annually, actually. No, it's a marvellous place. It really is.

it's good to know that, you know, there is a place where people can tell their theatrical stories and, you know, have a good time, I hope. Do you think that will, you'll nowhere near your dotage, but when you are in it, I mean, listen, I'm going to bore to tears anyone who has the misfortune to share any kind of property with me as I enter my 10th decade about my glittering life in radio. So why shouldn't you? You've got much better stories than me. Why shouldn't you tell your tales to people, to an avid audience? I think that it would make people happy to share them. I think it's a lovely place to be as a hands done. Do you have an absolute knockout showbiz anecdote?

Oh, Lord. You don't have to have one. Probably, but you see, I'll get myself into trouble. You can't imagine. I already have, so I've best not. I'll save it for when we're off the air, you and I, okay? That's intriguing, isn't it? Well, yes.

Let's leave sheltered housing behind and think of a deserted mansion in the middle of the Scottish countryside where I understand, Celia, you are going to be spending some time. Now, what's this? Ah, well, you think I'm going to tell you? Bad luck, I'm not. I'm not going to say a word, but gosh, I had a good time. Well, we've talked about traitors in World War II.

The least you can do is feed me a tip bit about what you were up to. Well, you know what Inverness is famous for You know that big castle that everybody knows Perhaps you didn't know I was up there But anyway, I was with a selection of people Who, you know, I think people know who else I was with And I had a wonderful time But that's all I'm going to tell you

Were you there a long time or only a short time? I'm not going to tell you Good try Did you meet anyone nice? Maybe, maybe Right. Okay, we'll just have to wait. Celia Imrey, thank you through Gritted Teeth. Thank you very much for limited information

about this forthcoming edition of Celebrity Traitors. Thank you. Celia Imri, I hope you enjoyed that. And Jane and I are back tomorrow for another dose of the double dose of the Jane's. In the meantime, you can email this, whatever it is. We're never entirely certain. It is still Jane and Fee at times.radio.

Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.