Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Getting a smear test in a Toyota Yaris?

Episode Date: July 21, 2025

Jane and Fi are back together after two weeks apart and there's much to discuss! They cover bullsh*t merchants, Coldplay concerts, and toilet paper. You can listen to the playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3qIjhtS9sprg864IXC96he?si=uOzz4UYZRc2nFOP8FV_1jg&pi=BGoacntaS_uki If you want to come and see us at Fringe by the Sea, you can buy tickets here: www.fringebythesea.com/fi-jane-and-judy-murray/ And if you fancy sending us a postcard, the address is:Jane and FiTimes Radio, News UK1 London Bridge StreetLondonSE1 9GFIf you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] next book club pick has been announced! We’ll be reading Leonard and Hungry Paul by Rónán Hession.Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I mean, not everybody can be as towering the intellectual as us. Well, I'll tell you what, I'm no towering intellect. But as I said, I'm sure before, I wouldn't pitch a tent on a British beach. No, that was just silly. It was completely farcical. We're back. Did you have a lovely holiday? We had a really lovely holiday, Jane. Swimming in clear waters, which we think, because none of us got horrendously ill, we're probably

shit free. It's always a bonus. And cycling a lot through pine forests. It was really lovely actually. Can you tell people where this paradise was? Well we went to Cap Ferret and I'm sorry I'm probably saying that wrong, it's probably Ferret but I just wanted to emphasize the et not the at because Cap Ferret is the most astonishingly glamorous little promontory isn't it in the south of France. We're just talking to the wrong woman but yeah. glamorous little promontory isn't it in the south of France? Talking to the wrong woman but yeah. Well I think it's where the Eden Rock Hotel is and I think it is just

festooned with Liz Hurley and that kind of level of glamour and I don't want anybody to think that we took our blended family to Cap Ferrette. Because you didn't. So Cap Ferrette which is off the coast of Bordeaux. Could it be Cap Ferret. Because you didn't. Because we wouldn't be able to afford to. So Cap Ferret, which is off the coast of Bordeaux. Could it be pronounced ferret? Yeah ferret. It's spelt ferret. Yeah, well I'd pronounce it ferret.

The Cape of Ferrets. Yep, but it's a lovely place. It's where an awful lot of French people go on their holidays. Very very much French holiday destination. And you do cycle a lot and it's got really roaring Atlantic waves on one coast and then quite a quiet kind of lagoon on the other. And it's where most of France's oysters come from. So there was some oyster eating. I don't eat oysters.

I don't know you were an oyster fancier. I don't eat them at all. Did you have them? It was fine. No, I didn't even have one an oyster fancier. I don't need them at all. Did you have them? It was fine. No, I didn't even have one. I'm very resistant. I've never had one, but I won't be having any. Well, maybe until you go to the Isle of Man, which seems to be the place that you go to just try things once.

I don't know if the oyster is prevalent around the ghosts of the island man but you're right, that could be a place I'd have a go. And how was your holiday? Because you were going to Crete at a time at which an awful lot of people were evacuating the island because of the wildfires. It's funny, the news did look terrible and I'm not in any way underestimating wildfires because they're horrible, horrible things. And I was frantically on the search engines looking for information about the hotel I'd booked and how close it was to the wildfires, which were put out actually before I went I should say. And it wasn't that far away, it was about 40 kilometres away. So could you see it?

No, no you couldn't see it, you couldn't smell it, couldn't, in fact nobody in the resort that I was staying in mentioned them at all. So I think maybe it was because they didn't want to draw attention to the fact that they'd been an issue but also that perhaps they hadn't even been that aware of them because it is possible isn't it to be very close to the center of something that's a bit of a global news story but not actually to be aware of it yourself. Well presumably, I mean there's a lot of wildfire action. Yes, I think there probably is. Anyway, the authorities had extinguished the fires before I went there because the last

thing a place in crisis needs is a bunch of British tourists arriving because they're just a nuisance. I wouldn't have gone if I thought there was any difficulty. But there wasn't. It was lovely. It was lovely and bizarrely. Crete was at times five degrees cooler than London. We had a similar experience. And that is just, that's weird. It is bonkers. Absolutely bonkers. And I find that quite hard to, in fact, quite a few of the lovely staff at the hotel made mention of that, oh, you're British, you've come for the sun. I found myself saying, well, actually, it's warmer in London than it is here. You can see them thinking, shut up, you old biddy, we're not that interested.

But I felt the need to actually explain it to them, bizarrely. Very peculiar. Anyway, yes, lovely time. I just don't think you can beat Greece, I'm afraid. I love other places, obviously, Southport and other places like that, but it's just a great holiday destination. I absolutely believe you and I wouldn't undermine anybody's individual choice, but I would pop Cap Ferret into the mix. Do you know what? So the older I get, the more... Where do you fly to or drive to to get there? Bordeaux.

Oh, right, okay. I appreciate enormously the level of welcome that there is wherever you go. And I think sometimes when you're younger, you're a bit oblivious to it. You don't notice. I think, well, and I think it's, you know, let's face it, there are some people who travel abroad from this country who are horrendous ambassadors for our great nation. But you do come to notice it, I think, the older you get and so you should. And actually it was quite interesting

in Cap for Up because there was obviously a contingent of people there who have lived there all of their lives. I would imagine Phil a little bit awash with visitors and there were some a wash with visitors and there were some particularly grumpy old Frenchmen that we insisted on doing our very best bonjours to and it wasn't really forthcoming on the way back. How did they greet you? They greeted me basically like that. But overwhelmingly I think because it is a holiday destination just the atmosphere was lovely and everywhere else that we went and in all of the restaurants and all of the beaches, it was just really good fun, Jane.

It was really, really good fun. And I would like to applaud Le Francais for that. Well, I felt the same when I went on my day trip to Lille in May. I found the welcoming Lille incredibly friendly. Bienvenue. The old Jane and Fee cordial is up and running as far as we're concerned. After the lovely recent state visit of the macarons as well, I think we're set fair. Our relations with the French have not always been easy.

Let's put the hundred year war behind us. Sallyforth in unison into the future. Can I just ask a question please? What is everybody else doing with the new type of toilet roll dispenser in airports and public facilities? Do you know the one that I mean? So now instead of having a great big loo roll that falls all over the floor and all of that, I understand that that was messy and difficult. Like a cat's bottom. Like exactly that. They've got a cat's bottom that you pull your toilet tissue out of.

Now here's the thing, Jane. Are people just smoothing that out into nice flat four ply layers before applying it to the area? Or like me, taking about 45 and scrunching them into a kind of ball? What are we meant to be doing? Ladies and gentlemen, this is what you've missed. Jane and Fee at times.radio, if you can answer that. What are you doing? I take a small clump and I get busy with it. I think it's going to end up costing them more because I think some people are doing

very big clumps. Yes, I think you might be onto something. Can I just bring in the listeners? Incredibly, people listen to this. Alison has emailed to say, and I've got some sympathy, I wonder if I'm the only person who's forgotten what to do with their arms at night. I love that one. Alison, welcome. You're one of us.

I'm sure this wasn't an issue in years gone by, but as soon as I lie down to sleep on my side nowadays, I can't get comfortable. If I put one under my pillow, it goes numb, so I end up with them stretched out over the edge of the bed. The problem is stopping me getting to sleep because of the confusion. I suspect I need to get some earbuds and listen to you two to take my mind off it. Okay, Alison, do you know, the other night I was, I don't know why, I was struggling to get to sleep and I realised that I had both my fists clenched. Now that's

odd as well, isn't it? That's very odd. That suggests I'm worried about something, although for the life of me I honestly couldn't determine what it was. And so I have a lot of sympathy with Alison here. Is it, as you get older, and I don't know how old Alison is but just judging by her first name I'm guessing she might be one of us. Yeah possibly more one of me than one of Fee. And yeah I don't know there is sometimes you just think I can't remember what I used to do and I never used to give any thought so what is the difference now? What do you do with your arms at night?

So I put one arm above my head. I sleep on my front which was a nightmare when I was pregnant Jane. I don't think I slept. You sleep on your front? I sleep on my front and I put one arm above my head under the pillow and then my head on the pillow and when I had my frozen shoulders and obviously I couldn't sleep like that at all, I was allison all of the time. I had no idea what to do with my arm and I actually can't sleep on my back even if I try and fall asleep on my back I wake up on my front. Really?

Yeah. And what about, would your mum remember what you did as a baby? Probably. Because I think that's, isn't that a habit learned in very early life? Is it? I think so. I mean I think it's quite unusual to sleep on your front. But anyway, look, all human life is welcome here. But you see, I'm with Alison, I just never, never, I wouldn't have been able to answer that question in my 20s or 30s.

If somebody said, how do you sleep? I'd be like, what? I don't know. Just get into bed'd just fall asleep. I agree. I think there's something about sleep, achieving it, the nature of it once achieved that does change as you get older. And I don't think Alison's alone. If it makes you feel any better, Alison, you've vexed us with that question because we're not sure either. But it's brilliant and I think it will start a totally new thread. I think many people will have some thoughts about this.

That's today's subject. What do you do with your arms? In bed. And this is nothing to do with carnal relations of any kind. Don't get frisky with this. No, it doesn't need to. It's not a question of that. It's nothing to do with it. It's just about getting yourself off to sleep. Annie says, I hope the pair of you enjoyed your holidays and have managed to spare a thought for your fan base who like may have probably been suffering from chain and feed deprivation. I think everyone's been alright Annie, as we suspect, much to our dismay. In desperation I had a random scroll for your podcast at the old place settling on a selection from April 2020. I thought you might be amused to be reminded of what you were up to in those thankfully distant times. What year is this?

So April 2020. So we were still in pandemic times. We had just started. Yeah. Fia had just purchased an exercise bike and was up to 10 kilometres a day. That will just never ever be repeated in my life. Have you still got the bike? No. It went to the dump. Right. You and your daughter have given yourselves one month to master doing the splits. Remind me, did that ever happen? Annie, it didn't because a very, very kind operative, Lieutenant Sir, don't go anywhere near that challenge.

I remember that. As a woman of a certain age, she's had babies because our correspondent had done it and something had pinged inside her and she was never the same again. So I just repeat that as a public service announcement. Jane meanwhile was longing for mundanity and was in danger of losing it over a snapped clothesline of washing. Oh yes I do remember that. That was quite early in the lockdown and I think I was as close as I've ever been to, not quite, I wouldn't over-egg it, it wasn't a nervous breakdown but I did feel incredibly stressed like everybody else.

A domestic induced incident. We were trapped in the house except when we were driven to work and driven home again, it was all very peculiar and I'm not complaining, I was luckier than 99% of the population at the time that there was just something about where I put a load of washing on the line, because the kids were at home and, well, you know, it was a frantic and upsetting time. It was discombobulating. And the washing line just snapped and everything fell onto the... I think I did have the fake grass. Fake grass has lived through some times. It really has. Anyway, I was livid. Annie ends by saying, Fee was encouraging Jane not to become slovenly by wearing

elasticated waistbands and Nancy's flatulence was discussed at some length. Do you know what Annie, some things never change and Jane is still not wearing a belt. Do you know what, I ordered three belts this morning at about seven o'clock I thought that is my day done. It's some time was of course you'd have to have waited for the belt shop to open before you could do that kind of thing and it is making it's making us all slovenly isn't it? Yes it is. It's ability to just simply flick a few switches and it's all it's all sorted. Yeah. It's not like it used to be. But actually that was

the other lovely thing about being on holiday. We went to markets to shop. Like proper markets. Artisanal. No, well just proper food markets. What did you get? You know, we had to, in our very, very best French. That would have been worth hearing. Ask for Bocoup de Vegetable's Sivouple. Oh yes.

We managed actually. It was quite good fun. Can we talk about, and we're way behind other podcasters here, but can we talk about the Salt Path? Oh my goodness, so you missed most of the repercussions of Salt Path. So it was that week that I was away, yeah, when you were with Jamal, who is by the way J.Mal Kearns. We did have an email from somebody saying, excuse me're with Jamal. Yes. Who is by the way Jane Mulcairons. We did have an email from somebody saying, excuse me, is Jamal? Yes. Jamal is Jane. Yeah. It's a long story. We have explained before why she's now called Jamal. Let's not do it again.

She just is, but she's really Jane Mulcairons. So that happened, didn't it? That week I was away and I was telling young Eve who stayed awake for most of the anecdote earlier on, that I one morning in Crete, I woke up. Is it can I take a dose Eve Trulitz? Is it in or on an island? I think you're on an island. On Crete. And I suddenly remembered that I had interviewed the author of The Salt Path.

Oh my goodness. And so I sort of rate myself as someone who can spot a bullshit merchant. Of course I do. That's partly a Scouse cliché that, you know, you won't for you can't kidder, kidder, that kind of thing. So I thought, well, I bet it's obvious in that interview I did with her that I don't believe a word of it. So one morning on a sun lounger,

I put myself through the hell of listening to myself. It's not honestly, contrary to what people might think, I'm not a raging egomaniac and it's not my favourite activity. And it certainly isn't my favourite activity when it's quite clear from the interview, but there's no suspicion in my mind whatsoever. So what it does sound, it sounds as though I'm a bit bored by the subject and I'm quite keen to get onto something else, which you know when you do a lot of radio interviews sometimes I'm afraid to say, that can indeed be the case. So did you read the book at the time?

I did read most of the book at the time. I didn't think it was absolutely glorious and wonderful. I like some of the writing style, but sometimes, you know, I've stopped haranguing myself about totally finishing books and if I don't get grip by them. And also I think in our profession, because actually we are reading a lot of books. So it wasn't one that I pressed into the hands of strangers and said you must read this. But I do remember thinking that the writing was lovely. And I think what's come out of it, I mean there will be, you know, there will probably legal issues coming out of it because Raina Wynne is definitely trying to challenge some of the things that were said about her and her husband and particularly his illness.

So we need to tread a little bit carefully there. But undoubtedly, and we've had an email about this, haven't we? The disappointment felt by people who allowed that book to change their lives, I think is entirely valid. And whatever happens in the future about the story, there is definitely something that is not being told in the book that wouldn't allow for these good people to have invested quite so much in it and that's just a nasty nasty feeling Jane isn't it? Let's bring in this emailer then who has to be anonymous she says I work in a secure estate it's the best teaching job ever. Now, I assume that's a prison. Yeah, she says here, Rainer and Moff, not their real names, it was

Sally and Tim, wasn't it? They visited the prison where I work and spent time talking to the residents about the salt path and answering questions. If there's any truth in the information presented by the observer, what message does that send? Inspiration, trust and positive role models play such a huge part in making a choice to change. I'm not criticizing the alleged actions of the authors as that's nothing to do with me but I'm a bit disappointed for those that took part in a discussion and Fee's right there are potentially some legal issues around this but I do think that's such an interesting insight. Yeah, no, totally. Because you're absolutely right to feel done over.

Absolutely. And also because these are people who then went on to spend, you know, most of their lives talking about that book and talking about their journey. You know, it's not as if it was just a kind of one-off thing that they published. You published two subsequent books and went into prisons or, you know, this might be a young person's, a young offenders unit or whatever it is and carried on telling the story without telling all of the story. And I just think that feeling of being had is just miserable and it will stay with you when you open another

memoir. Oh 100% that's what I was going to ask you about. Has it changed the way you think about other memoirs? I think it's I think it's the publishing industry's got a real problem on its hands here now because oh it is true we've always known that somebody's memoir is only ever written from one perspective and I've always think this about people writing about their childhoods you know if you have siblings it may very well be that your sister or brother has a completely different view of your childhood. Or the parents that you're parenting about.

Or the parents, absolutely. Yeah, so you have to be mindful of that at all times and I'm afraid, I think in the past perhaps I haven't been mindful enough and I'm now going to be potentially even more cynical than I already am. I've got to say that we both, well you interviewed Gillian Anderson didn't you about her role in the in the film of The Saltpath and we both watched, I don't think it's unfair to say that, we both watched a press so-called screener of The Saltpath on our laptops. And the thing that we absolutely loved about it both of, was the fact that Evelyn Salisbury's name was imprinted across the whole movie. That's what happens. That was the best bit about the film.

It was a terrible film. And that was the best thing. Right, that was the best thing about it. Constant reminder of young Eve throughout the film. I think she looked particularly good during the C shots. I couldn't believe that it got some relatively generous reviews. I didn't understand it. But it's the same thing though, Jane, isn't it? If you buy into the story and if you buy into the idea of two people really on the edge, finding themselves with a view and the kindness of strangers and a sharp wind and all of that, then you would have enjoyed that film. I mean not everybody can be as towering the intellectual as us. Well I tell you what, I'm no towering intellect but as I said I'm

sure before I wouldn't pitch a tent on a British beach. No, that was just silly. It was completely farcical. Anyway, I don't know why I'm so angry about that tent on the beach thing. That was the thing that really just drove me insane. But I did look yesterday in the Sunday Times Best Sellers and the salt path is still there. Well, of course, because people, I mean, it's a bit like, you know, Gwyneth Paltrow saying any click is a good click, even if you're clicking to have a laugh at her. Well, ain't that the truth. Do you want to talk about Jumbotrons?

Who, sorry? The Kiss Cam at the Coldplay concert. Oh yes, oh dear. Actually, I can't watch that. I've obviously seen it, but I'm not someone who wants to see it again, because you just think, oh. Oh, there's so much pain involved in that. Exactly, I mean, who knows who's been hurt by that. Do you know what, the squiz, so you might have missed this, unless you listened to the podcasts that we did last week. We had some recommendations from people. I didn't listen to any of them. That's devastating. Only because, no, I thought you were...

Jamal and I will have to reconvene and sob quietly. No, only because... Into each other's shoulders. No, there's no coming back from that. That was very clever. I tried to have a clean break. No, but you didn't. You listened to yourself.

I listened to myself for three and a half minutes. I listened to myself for three and a half minutes. I listened to myself for three and a half minutes. I listened to myself for three and a half minutes. I tried to have a clean break. No, but you didn't. You listened to yourself. I listened to myself for three and a half minutes. Realised that I hadn't soster out, although I might like to, because I would love to be sitting here now saying. Because you put on the WhatsApp. I knew this.

I thought it was a bit odd, but in the interview it's quite clear. But also to be fair to me, I think when you do an interview for Radio 4 for example, you'd be given all these notes, wouldn't you, by a producer, very well-meaning, very erudite individual who'd written a load of notes and they thought the book was brilliant. Well, lots of people did. It was on the bestseller list for two years. And it still bloody well is. And you wonder how much of an advantage you'll get for writing the story about what really happened. I mean this is where it all gets very complicated, doesn't it?

Well it does, but I think it would now make a very good movie not written from her perspective of how you do all of the things that it is said by other people with evidence showed to another newspaper that she did, but then go on to have a lot of meetings in London with very intelligent publishers who then buy into it and you become a sensation. That's a movie I want to watch and it will be on Netflix in a couple of years time. What was I about to say? Because it's going to annoy me now. Are you talking about the couple caught out on the kiss cam?

Oh yes, the squiz. So we had quite a few recommendations from listeners because a couple of people had asked about where you would go to find really good bite sized chunks about the news but also a place to go where things are really explained. So if you did want the situation in the Middle East to be explained in simple terms, to give a better perspective on what's happening now. We had some really, really lovely suggestions. And the one that I'd signed up to is The Squiz, which is an Australian newsletter,

primarily aimed at busy women, but not exclusively for busy women. And they had a superb piece about the Coldplay thing just saying that one of the things that we should bear in mind is this really weird kind of high bar we have for people who are successful because in fact if that had been a couple who you know just one of them worked in as a school janitor, do you use an American term? Caretaker. Thank you Britain and you know one of them was a teacher or a nurse. It wouldn't have ended up being the enormous kind of scandal that it is now and I thought that was quite interesting. I thought we kind of allow ourselves because they're very successful. He was a CEO and she was a head of HR. Does it give us permission to kind of think, oh well they're kind of, they're well off so we can just all have the most almighty pop?

Is that part of it? Made me think actually, it was a good piece. I'm very innocent in these matters. If you go to a gig like that, is there some legal document that you sign? No, there's a massive sign on the way in that you cannot help but see which says by entering this facility you are agreeing that you can be filmed for promotional material. That is quite a big sign as well. Right, so wherever you are in the stadium... You will have walked past that. Does that also apply to people who go to football matches?

I don't know. I mean the last time I went to a big Premier League Stadium I don't remember there really being anything that came up on the screen within the stadium so... That's really interesting because obviously I'm watching the Lionesses... Oh my god that matched! I tell you what I aged about 15 years during that penalty shootout. I mean, let's just be honest about it. I've read some, you can imagine, predictably carpy comments from men saying... It was standard.

It's entertainment, you buffoons! And by the way, there have been some great penalty shootouts in this European Championships as well. It was terrible, the penalty shootout. England were terrible, Sweden were terrible. Who cares? We won! And the entertainment, the spectacle spectacle was off the scale. So for anybody who would ever dare to say that women's football isn't worth watching that match is what you need to put in front of them because fair enough first

20 minutes were longer than that actually, might have felt a little bit depressing. England were terrible. Let's just be honest about it. But then it just went BOOF. I felt ashamed, you know, because I had given up hope. In fact, I'd been on the train back from Liverpool actually, I'd been to see my parents and I came back and I was listening to the commentary and then watching some of it on the phone on the train, which felt terribly 21st century. And then I had given up. I got home, they were still losing 2-0. There were 12 minutes to go and I just thought well this is hopeless.

I actually didn't watch it. And then when I went back into the room at home, it was too awful. I felt really terrible that I just deserted them. I just had given up and I felt awful. But I kind of knew then that they probably would come through it. But I've got to say, I mean, they're doing it the hard way. Bloody hell. And let's just say as well, the poor old Jess Carter, who's the defender, who's just been subjected to this just, oh, God, I mean, it's just so soul destroying and so depressing.

So she's had some really nasty racial abuse on social media and the England team have said that they're going to stop taking the knee before their matches because I think it's a really good thing to say that actually there just needs to be some other way of tackling racism because clearly that's not working and I really admire them for saying that because what's the point? What is the point? And it is good to draw attention to the fact that football is trying really hard and some people aren't coming with it. But I did wonder, Jane, whether actually, you know, if we as fans are all really enjoying

watching the team and if we want to better support them then could there be a place where anyone who's receiving racial abuse could put up the tag line of the person who has submitted the racial comment and we could all respond. So I'd be quite happy to take on, let's say he's called at big fat bloke with prejudice and I'm quite happy to have a discourse with him so they don't have to. I've got names that I can call him. I've got ways of explaining my perspective. I'm not quite beginning to feel sorry for him but yes let you at him. Why don't we all pile in? Why don't we take it on our shoulders so they don't have to take it on theirs?

I know it's just grim isn't it? I know isn't it? Some of this abuse is coming from outside Britain, from people who want to completely disrupt the relatively harmonious and actually what is so lovely about the Lionesses and about the men's England team is that people don't care. Certainly what's so liberating about the women's team is some of the players are gay, some of them aren't, no one gives a toss, some are white, some are black, some are having a tougher tournament than others, it doesn't matter, we're all behind them, we really want them to do well and do you know what, the way things are going, I'm not going to

say it or I don't, no, Mystic Garve, no, no, no, okay, okay, can I just say in case people are offended there, some racists are women and they're not all fat. Some racists are women and they're not all fat. Okay. Can we put that on a t-shirt? I don't think we'd sell many copies. I think so. Enter Rita from Mallorca. So we've had a massive theme of words that should be banned and this came from Jamal some of the things that she's banned on the news desk and exclamation marks as well. Oh yes. I agree with her about exclamation marks. I think I'm a bit of an over user. Anyway, Rita enters from Majorca. How are you? I'm good thanks. That's a word she doesn't like. What are you good at? Or are you just not bad? Do people never have problems these days? Are they all challenges? I agree with both

those things. And Rita, you would get on very well with my mum, who it drives her bonkers when she says how are you and someone replies good because she says that is you making a kind of moral judgment about yourself and in fact the proper answer is I'm very well thank you and how are you? Oh I didn't realize you had to inquire about somebody else. You certainly do. You certainly do, Jenny. I had, well it didn't go down very well, my suggestion of having a hubby of the week.

But I might just mention Suzy who says, I listen to you every day. I'm lucky I'm married to an amazing chap. He mends my car, builds wardrobes and he cooks and hoovers. But he can't plan buy the food to cook. Oh dear. So he wouldn't really win an award. He hoovers only the middle of our sitting room and not the edges. Oh gosh. Okay. Dif, difficult, difficult times. My best friend defines a good husband as one who hasn't fucked off. So mine's doing well, says Susie. Right.

So good and bad there, I think that's sort of, you know, 75% of the way there. Sorry about the edges, but the rest of it he's not doing badly. Oh, dearie me. Sarah, thank you very much for your email. It was absolutely lovely. The ship has sailed on the topic and we won't return to Musk and his horrendous misogyny, but also can I just say that I never do not appreciate a picture of a sleeping dog and the one that you've sent of yours is just absolutely gorgeous. And Sarah's also got

an early edition tote bag. Now we have returned to the subject of merchandising but it's just a subject at the moment we haven't actually got any further from that. Sorry about that. This is a sad, well it's not sad but I read it and I thought you know what I don't think you'll be alone so we don't need to mention the name. I'm hoping the hive can help she says. I wake up most mornings with a knot of anxiety in my stomach due to high rent, uncertain work prospects and a sense I'm just not getting life quite right. I'm 40, I'm a self-employed administrator

and recently two clients have told me they expect my role to be replaced by AI. I can see the writing on the wall and I know I'm not the only one feeling this. I'd really like to return to the security of traditional employment and I've been researching retraining options in sectors that feel more AI resilient. I'm thinking education, health care or even funeral care. I just don't know where to begin.

I'm English, I currently live in Scotland, I don't have much family and I'm now the last child-free singleton in my friendship group. I share that only because it means I'm not tied to a particular place. I'm open to relocating in the hope of finding not just a new profession but a home and a community. I studied archaeology and classical civilisation at university. Fee might appreciate that one, you do don't you? I certainly do, boom boom. But most of my working life has been in admin and support roles. I've looked into apprenticeships but so many seem aimed at school leavers or recent graduates and university just isn't financially

viable for me right now. I'd be incredibly grateful for any advice the Hive can offer. Well to that listener, I just think we both want to say we absolutely hear you and she's right she won't be on her own there will she? I think a lot of people are thinking right what now for me? What can we suggest? It's a tough one, somebody will have some advice I'm sure. But I like the direction that you're heading in thinking about funeral care and the kind of places where AI won't be able to take your working place. And actually that's the huge challenge isn't it for anybody entering the job market at the moment or wanting to change just as you're doing away from the impending

disaster that AI is going to create. You've just got to think of those places. And it's difficult there, Joan, because, you know, not everybody actually wants to do the hands-on care jobs. You know, not everybody's good at them. Not everyone can. Not everyone is able, in any sense of that term, to do it. So that would be quite a horrendous thing if you felt that you had to go and do something that you were really rubbish at, you know, just because of the ever increasing march of chat GPT. So I'm trying to believe the optimism that some experts have about the settling down of AI.

And how we'll just find new roles and new jobs. Yes, and also just the really authentic part of human experience is going to become even more valuable. So I completely understand you know if you've trained for the last four years to enter the world of graphic design what a hellish place it now is because you can just press that button and you know everything can be done for you but there does seem to be a voice coming from people who are saying, actually, we will return to needing the very good, very highly creative skills of humans

and people will be prepared to pay a premium for that. So I'm holding onto that as a kind of belief. But any top tips for our listeners, or if you're in a similar boat yourself and you're just feeling what role for me now and where do I go and how do I stop feeling anxious you can just, I mean I don't know whether that's any comfort to our correspondent if she finds out there are thousands of other people in the same position but it probably does help to know that you're not the only one who's lying there at 10 to 3 in the morning

thinking how am I going to pay the rent if I can't get work? Yeah, and I think it's extraordinary. And it just seems to be one of those things that you can't legislate against. You can't really unionize against, and unions are across this and are trying to. I mean, it was part of the Sagaphora strike, wasn't it, in America. The scriptwriters of Hollywood that they very much felt, and sorry I mispronounced the acronym there, but they very much felt that their jobs were all being encroached by the creeping, just write this movie for us thing, so I don't know.

This one comes from Angie from Chelmsford, long-time listener, stand down Eve, second time emailer. I first wrote to talk about the swimming pool in Exmouth heated by a data centre while the data centre was called by the swimming pool. Do you remember that Jane? I do remember that. Phenomenal. Because I was writing to you again I thought I'd look up how that company Deep Green was doing rather well it seems and I wondered if your journalist friends in the building would like to find out more. I was originally writing in response to the lady with a juvenile crow pecking her window. My Red Toyota Yaris. No other podcast is giving you this. My Red Toyota Yaris has a nice shine

all the time and when I woke up to a clonking sound I investigated and found it was being attacked by a male pheasant. I can only think that as a guy he gets his manliness from the redness on his head and seeing a whole pheasant reflected in red was just too much for him. It's just the right sort of red. I wonder whether anybody else has had this. Well Angie we'll pump that out to the hive. What was the name of the car again? It was a Toyota Yaris. I love a Toyota Yaris. My mum has a Toyota Yaris and has had a Yaris for years.

And sometimes I see the young gentleman of the hood in Dalston cruising around in, you know some of them do, in a Yaris or a Corsa. And the way that they've tried to get away from the fact that that is a grandmother's car. Well, nothing wrong with that at all. They're very reliable. But they've just, you know, when they lower their seat so much that they're either driving a car or having a smear test. And they go past and you think, mate, you're in a Yaris. It doesn't matter how much drum and bass you pump out, it doesn't matter how low your seat is.

We see your wheels. You're in a Yaris. I have a Mini currently, which by the way, I love my Mini actually and I see no need for a bigger vehicle. I simply don't need one. But I have a couple of friends who are on the insurance and they will drive the car as well. And they're both, you'll be amazed to hear, taller than me. And so when I get the car back I'm always absolutely amazed by how far away from the wheel they sit.

Because I sit very, very close to the wheel. And you know that you can move the seat back. You're not trying to do it with your pointy toes. So initially I sometimes find myself sitting like this, attempting to take off. Stand well back! I do obviously adjust the seat back to where it was, but I always feel faintly angry that my friends have got bigger legs, longer legs than me. It's just not fair, is it?

Oh, you're doing all right. Do you think? Yeah, I think so. Well, apart from that instant when it fell off the stool. Most people have forgotten about that now, so there's absolutely no need to bring it up. Our book club book, Leonard and Hungry Paul. I got an email from work last week reminding me that you needed to read it.

Much appreciated. So can I be honest with you, this isn't the Book Club edition of the podcast, but I picked up the book with a slightly heavy heart. And, however, I thought it was really, really interesting. And so when are we going to do the Book Club podcast? Well, I think we're talking to the author tomorrow. Tomorrow? Wow, OK. But you're off next week. Where are you going? Portugal? Why?

A bit of sun busy. Okay. Maybe the week after that. Okay, so you've got two more weeks left to read this book. Can I just say, I didn't think the cover did it really much justice. I think that was one of the reasons that I was slightly put off. I love the cover. Oh, did you? Okay, come on you? We're very different people. Okay, anyway I'm here to tell you that it's really interesting and rather lovely. And it's got some beautiful observations about the human experience. And I love the fact that you think at the beginning something huge has got to happen

in order for this to keep my attention, But the quality of the writing doesn't matter. Means that actually you keep going through, just thinking, oh, there'll be just another really delicious description of something coming up. It is. It's amazing. It's got some beautiful, beautiful chunks in it. If you just want your cockles warmed, I really, really recommend it and it's called Leonard and Hungry Paul. You see, the book club is working. That's the... Yes, you're right. Because we've absolutely hit the USP of it, haven't we?

Yeah. I have now read a book I would never have picked up. Yeah, and enjoyed it. Thanks. Thanks to the book club. So, yes. And also, we were amazed to hear, I genuinely was amazed to hear that it's going to be made into a TV show. A six-part series. BBC has picked it up. Yeah. So, loads to talk about. So, Leonard and Hungry amazed to hear that it's going to be made into a TV show. A six part series. So Leonard and Hungry Paul is the name of that book. Get involved and we'll do that podcast.

I know we've talked about this for ages. We will do it in about two or three weeks time. But if you want a question put to the author, you've got to get it in overnight. Get a wiggle on with that. And I think there are lots of questions you can ask. Apart from anything else, I think his story is amazing. He is not a hugely experienced published author before writing that. And I think it speaks of someone who's been writing there a whole life. To be able to do that and not have a hugely moving plot and you know action and twist.

There are no sieges in this. No one travels across the world with a gun in there whatever. No nothing like that. No I like those books but not not all the time. So I wonder what Ronan thinks about the new Sixpart BBC series which is just about to start shooting and what he thinks about the actors and actresses who've been chosen because... Yeah, we were a bit surprised. Well I just imagine both the gentlemen, Leonard and Hungry Paul, to be actually a little bit older and not quite as attractive. I mean this is an attractive trio of young people who... that looks like a very

young Liz Hurley. Liz Hurley's got two mentions in this podcast, that's weird. No she hasn't, when did you last mention her? Cap Ferrett. Oh my god. Cap Ferrett. Can we also say that we are so grateful to all of you for your contributions to the Spotify playlist. Rosie is away on her holidays at the moment as well, so she will add those to the playlist next week and also we probably need to pause on it for now just in order for us to regroup and add all of those and then we had an

idea. Well you had, I mean credit where it's due. No, there's, let's say we. No, because it was you. We had an idea that we might then do some themed playlists. So I quite like one that is called Female Fury, which you can listen to when you're just, when you wake up in the morning, whether or not your arm has gone numb and you just think I'm livid. Absolutely livid. Maybe because hubby has not hoovered the edges. Or there might be something else you can tell me. And you had some other suggestions. I just do things like a seat of heartbreak. Let's all just throw in our favorite really sound song. That's true that could be quite funny. Eve is going to put a description and a link in

the top of the description and link thing that she always does. It's not gone well for me that sentence. No, but I tell you what, you started with real conviction and I was with you 75% of the way. Sorry about that everybody, first day back may take a while to actually get into gear. And Susan, glad you're enjoying that book I keep going on about that is Joanna Miller's The Eights. I know I've mentioned it loads of times. It's just if you're looking for a really good super, super saga.

The woman on the plane in front of me was reading that. Really? Yes. Did you poke her? No, but I just thought I wonder whether she's reading that because she's listened to the podcast and heard it recommended by my colleague, Jane Garvey. Jane Garvey, she's wonderful. So in our hotel in Crete, there was another radio. I nearly said another Radio 4 presenter. I don't work there anymore.

There was a Radio 4 presenter. Would you believe it? That says so much. So the first morning I saw him I thought I can't be him and I just forgot about it and then blow me he leant over at the breakfast buffet about four days in and he was sitting at the next table. Yes it was John this cultural life was. So did you then do some hanging out? No we didn't. No we didn't But we did speak. We did speak. Yeah. Yeah. And

in fact, he was talking about what we talked about the salt bath, which is how some of this podcast started. It's this podcast seems to have started some months ago. But we did talk about that. And he agreed with you and I and this is good because he's back. He does this cultural life. So he's looking at things from a very different, from a much higher plane. He also thought the film was shit. Okay, so that made me feel a bit better. I tell you what, the breakfast buffet was a good one. Okay, what was your strangest combination? Oh, I didn't have any strange combinations. I just started, I started every single buffet with really good, I'm just going to have yoghurt and honey and nuts. And I did have yoghurt and honey and nuts. Then I had smoked turkey, Greek salad, a few slices of cheese. And then

after that I had a couple of pastries. And were they mini pastries? No. Not so much. They weren't microscopically mini. No, no, they were a good size. Because I always, I love the mini pastries because you just think, well I could just have six, couldn't I? That would be a normal croissant Because I always, I love the mini pastries because you just think, well I could just have six, couldn't I? I didn't have six.

That would be a normal croissant. I only had four. And did you make something for a little mid-morning snack and take it out in your napkin? I tell you what I did do one morning is that I had gone out early, as I always do with the towels, to book the sunbeds, make sure our position was secured. And I was there and then we went back after breakfast to reclaim the pre-booked sunbeds with the universal sign of bookage which is the towel. And then sometimes you have something, especially in windy conditions, you put something to weigh the towel down.

A book or some suntan cream. Exactly that, yes. Although I never put down the book I'm reading in case it's stolen. So I put down one of my books I've already read or a spare book. Something by John Wilson. He doesn't write books, does he? Probably. Yeah, you would do. You're right. Anyway, on this particular morning, an American fellow had come along with his offspring and had taken the tables up.

No, an invasion. Yes. No, an invasion. Yes, no. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm afraid I summoned up all my British dignity in my full five foot one and a half and I said to him, excuse me, and I was wearing a sun hat. And I just, so I looked perhaps more intimidating than I might normally look. And I had a one piece on but a coverall.

So I wasn't completely exposed. And of course the children, my children, who were not children, they're grown women, had been very angry about them standing there with their hands on their hips. Where's our son, they've gone, you said you'd broke them. They wanted me to do something about it but then when I did they didn't like it. Yeah, mum you're being embarrassing. Exactly. Anyway old, what's-his his name? To be fair to the man, he understood. Did he? Yes. What was his reason for doing it? That he had been influenced by a very strange orange buffoon running his country to think that he could just take over anything. He said he didn't understand that he was, it was his first day on Crete and in the first day in the hotel

and he didn't understand that that was what happened but I thought everyone knew yeah that that's how you book a sunbed anyway he moved well that's good yeah and sat a few rows back which made it slightly awkward because he kept having to go past him to the toilet so he ended up near the toilet what time were you setting this precedent on the sunbeds? Well, this is the funny thing. At five thirty in the morning? No, I go out at about quarter to eight. Oh my god.

I know, and some people, I don't really sleep in at any time. I'm just alert in case of an international crisis. Because of my role as a secret agent, I might be required at any time. So I rarely sleep. As you know, regular listeners, I've got the appetite of a bird and I might be required at any time. So I rarely sleep, as you know, regular listeners, I've got the appetite of a bird and I never sleep. Anyway, I was down there, yes, and some people, I was never the first. There were always people already down there. So which does suggest that some people's alarms are going off way before. I think, do some people get up to see the sunrise? I think they do.

Maybe they've just not gone to bed. Good Lord. I know. Never crossed Maybe they've just not gone to bed. Good Lord. I know. Never crossed my mind. I know. Terrifying. I would like to end with this one from Joanna in Shropshire. We would like to end. I would just like to end.

Greetings, Fee and Jane. I've been trying and failing to find your playlist and when I rang, yes, old-fashioned I know, The Times, to ask if by subscribing to The Times I'll be able to enjoy the extended podcast, I was told what podcast? Can you believe it? I know, The Person, in brackets, a man. Hadn't heard of Offair, in brackets, yes, ridiculous I know. I was stunned by his ignorance. Anyway, perhaps you can throw some light on the questions I still need answers to, please.

Thank you for all the joy you bring. Well Joanna in Shropshire, our huge apologies about that. Times Radio operates in the same building as the Times newspaper. We are very much the voice of the Times but we're on different floors and probably the person who you spoke to is used to dealing with an awful lot of queries about the newspaper and not necessarily about an offshoot of Times Radio. So I'm trying to make reasonable excuses here but when I read that I was absolutely fuming. Yes, so was I. Honestly.

So I don't know what to say. I mean we've been let down by a colleague there. It's not the first time that we've been dissed. And it won't be the last, Joanna. But you don't need to subscribe to anything to get this, whatever it is. You just get it on your podcast platform. And the reason you're able to do that is obviously because we take sponsorship and advertising, and we give it some welly when we do it. Can I say, you explained that all beautifully beautifully and you held the thought right to the very end and I'm very, very impressed.

Thank you. It's nice to see you back. To see you back nice. Right. Thank you everybody. And by the way, it was lovely today to come into the emails and people are just very funny and very kind and very thoughtful and we're very grateful. We are very, very grateful and we'll do a long list of all of the bound words because they're just fantastic

I don't know about you Jane but there isn't a single one mentioned that I don't have an ire with as well It's almost like we're all thinking the same thing isn't it? Secretly Right and remember when you go to bed tonight what are you doing with your arms? Thank you Jane and Fiat, Time Struck Radio, goodbye. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every

day, Monday to Thursday, 2-4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online, on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler. This episode of Off Air is brought to you by Washington DC. The city? Yep, the one and only. Washington DC is the city for sightseeing, museum going and even outdoor adventures. It has got a variety of nightlife, dining, art and theatre with over a hundred free things to do. Why not take

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