Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Girl-on-girl (radio) action (with Andi Oliver)

Episode Date: July 14, 2026

Goodbye Jane and Fi, hello Creepy Gerald and Penelope no Principles. In today's pod, they discuss how Jane would have survived the Victorian era with her bad specs and poor needlework as well as the reasonably sized Cliff Richards hit that Fi somehow missed.Plus, they hear from award-winning chef TV chef and broadcaster, Andi Oliver, about her recent trip to Malawi with WaterAid.You can buy tickets for Fringe by the Sea: https://www.fringebythesea.com/off-air-with-jane-fi-and-special-guest-jan-ravens/Our next book club pick will be a collection of short stories! 'Interpreter of Maladies' is by Jhumpa Lahiri. You can check out our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@OffAirWithJaneAndFiOur most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producers: Hannah Quinn and Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Okay, so my headphones are dodgy and we're talking about lethal trousers on the program today. Hello. Sounds like something you could get arrested for. Don't do that again. Right, welcome. Another slick beginning. Hello. Hello. Yes, it is a little. Slick beginning.

Do you not like my, it's Gerald here from High Wyckham. You've got a blazer on with quite over-polished buttons I think I have Can you just order a gin and tonic in that voice? Could I have a gin tea, please? Exactly. No, not happy with that. No, I completely agree with you that

and I may even be wearing pink trousers to... Yeah, but you're not, you're wearing very sensible trousers, or are they? Have you seen this? No, oh, there's aara trousers. We are talking a little later on the Times Radio programme. How might someone listen to that? Well, it's good that you ask Corporate Cathy. Almost sliding into Penelope, no principles,

but Corporate Cathy for the time being, you could listen on the app where it's completely free, or you could retune your digital radio, and you could find us British summertime, 2 till 4, Times Radio. That's right. And actually, it's not sunny today, and I feel really cheated. Yes. Oh, don't be ridiculous.

I kind of do. Oh, don't be dark. Where's the song gone? There was a lovely, lovely, lovely, fresh, breeze as I took Nancy Fart Pants out this morning and it was just making everybody happy. Everyone said, good morning, hello, how are you? Instead of, I mean, we've been walking around.

Yes. And almost like the ready reddy glow thing has been on us all, hasn't it? It's just been disgusting. So don't ask for the sun. Okay, sorry, I just miss it now. It's gone. Anyway, these are the slippy satin zara trousers, aren't they? My daughter warned me about these. Well, they're 25 pounds 99.

Yeah. So coming in under 26 pounds, why are things priced like this? I've never really understood it. Is it to give you the suggestion, it's a bargain? It's the illusion, isn't it? Yeah. But we're sticking to it, you're right, we should just ditch it, should I? It's 26 quid.

Come on, let's just grow up around. Or just go for something a bit more interesting, 25 pounds 72. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Anyway, profit margins or world of mystery. So these strides, truths, and, other things you could call trousers in a second mention. Can you think of any others? Thigh coverers.

Yeah, whatever. They have been doing real damage because people are tripping up. They're so long. They are over long and they're incredibly wide. Hugo Rifkin, when I mentioned them to him, he said you and I could probably both fit in just one leg of these trousers.

Well, that's very rude. Or is it just a compliment? Because we're so tiny. Yes. How lovely of you, Hugo, thank you. Exactly. We should be very great. but they are a real danger.

And health and safety, Harriet, which is another of my personas, be a nightmare on escalators and stairs. I was just thinking. I was just thinking exactly that. And especially if you're wearing it with a flip-flop. And we've had this conversation before that nobody should be wearing a flip-flop at all,

apart from maybe actually on sand on the beach, but they're a very, very dangerous footwear item. I mean, people, I've seen them commuting in flip-flops the last couple of weeks. That's just crazy. And we haven't had much of... I'm a bit disappointed. to be able to know from a Corropodist because I want to know more about that noble art actually.

Yes, so coming Corropists. Yeah, come on, because everybody needs a corropatist, particularly in later life when you, let's be honest. Can't reach. You can't reach, you can't get there. There'll be, it's like that, you know, very sad, rather poignant memory of the last time your child willingly held your hand in public.

There'd be a last time when we can touch our own feet. That's very true. And it'll, it's coming up on the rails, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, you know, thanks to all my Pilates, it should be many decades before that actually comes for me. Do you think we should try and reinstate hand holding just amongst friends as well? Because you always used to hold your friend's hand, didn't you?

Oh yeah. Back in the day in primary school. Especially on school trips. Yes, very much so. And I think that would just be a nice thing to do now. I've got some friends at the moment. You know, everybody's having big things. You'd have to slow down.

You're walking. Oh, that's so true. I can't be obviously that. So you could be able to keep up with you. You'd have to be the most challenging three-legged race. Come on! Of all time. because we were having a quite convivial chat when we left work yesterday,

but in the end, we had to part because you just can't walk at the same pace as a normal human being. Anyway, if you know anyone in your life who's worn these lethal trousers successfully, let us know. Jane and Feard Times Talk Radio. Can I just say one final thing on this topic? I think also it's because people don't know how to hem anymore. Well, funny you should mention that.

I did splash out on a pair of reasons. priced linen trousers over the last week. Of course they were too long. So I took them up and I wore them to travel to Liverpool at the weekend. By the time I got to Lime Street, one leg had suddenly just given up on my so-called hemming. So I had one long leg and one reasonably lengthed leg. So obviously I looked a complete weirdo. In the end, I just took off.

I took out the hem that had stayed in. So you were wearing dangerous trousers by the time you got to scouse land. And I rolled them up at the midriff. I mean obviously it looked ridiculous. Oh no, that's terrible. It looked ridiculous. But I own it. I cannot do any kind of sewing.

I just didn't pay attention in. I actually really resented doing needlework at school, especially if like me, you know, my very mild dyspraxia. I'm not trying to make a thing of this, but I really do have quite poor motor skills and I struggle. I just couldn't. Also, I couldn't see how to thread the needle because I didn't have the right specs.

I'm not even sure I was wearing any specs at the time. You just wouldn't have lasted in the Victorian era as a woman. What would you have ended up doing? I don't know what I'd have done. But I often think about this. In fact, before talking professionally was invented for women, what would either of us have done? We couldn't have been lumberjacks, could we?

That's very true. What do you think you would have done? I think, oh, I would have cooked. Oh, yes, you've got that in your skills, so I haven't got that. No, you can cook. I can't be ridiculous. I can cook. I can make a meal.

No, come on. You did the most fantastic. No, not that. Not that again. Just because I made lettuce with gravy, a lot of people have talked about that and people said they should adopt it as a thing. Rose chicken. Yeah, or lettuce. Yeah, it was lovely.

Thank you. Hello Samantha. That's an old cliff song. Hello Sam. No, what was it, the old cliff song? Goodbye Sam. Hello Samantha. Are you familiar with that song?

Sorry, what? It was a really, really. reasonably sized hit for the great man back in the, I'm going to say, very early 60s. I'm sorry, was this an early supporter of transitioning? No, what it was was a lament for his male friendships because his interest had turned to the ladies. So people will be able to find that song. It's out there. It's Sircliffe and it's Goodbye Sam, Hello, Samantha. But Samantha has emailed the program. I'm sorry. I'm surprised. Have you never heard that song?

No, I have it. Cracking. I don't know why somebody hasn't done a cover of that more recently. I don't know why they haven't, especially as it would be quite topical. I said Samantha had emailed the programme. This isn't a program. This is a podcast as regular listeners will know. Samantha says, I love your podcast. It's been a massive help when I'm feeling a little bit homesick. Despite living outside the UK now for longer than I lived in England, it's often a nice distraction from parenting an autistic little boy who we adore, but it can be full on. This is the first time my extended family have met my son, so it's been a special visit. She's in London, having massive culture shock, she says, hasn't been home for eight years. Wow. And it's an entirely different world.

This is interesting. Samantha says, I live in San Jose. It's the hub of tech, but we still have people who take our order for coffee. Not so in Marks and Spencer here in London. I'm staying at an amazing hotel. It has air conditioning, but the heat in London has really. really been terrible. And I think we have been moaning about it, but people who visit London do acknowledge

that there is something especially terrible about the London heat. It's because we're so, is it the condensed buildings, the sheer number of people? I'm still laughing about Cliff, I don't know why. No, I'm just amazed that I haven't come across that song. I like to imagine that I've got a wide grazing ear and that's just completely,

and I'm going to go straight to it. Okay, I'll finish. I'll finish. I think it's a combination of things, isn't it? We just, we don't have air-conditioned public transport, so actually just getting around our city when it's hot is absolutely miserable. And I think so many visitors who come from hotter climbs

cannot believe that. No. I can't believe that people who try to get to work every day are expected to do so in, you know, plus 40 degrees. And you and I travel on the Jubilee line to work. Have you got the last bit of your journey on the Jubilee line? I'm making it up. So it's one of the deepest tube lines.

I mean, it's just been unbelievable. I've seen people who are so close to passing out. You do have to help people off. There was a lady who looked in real distress this morning, actually. And this is not even late. I mean, it's 10 o'clock in the morning. Exactly, Jane. And also, this is just people trying to get to work.

It's not an emergency situation. But, you know, there are definitely people who, you know, are put in an emergency situation by taking a tube to work. That's where we get it so wrong. And actually, if this is the summer that has affected change, then by next summer, something does have to have happened. It really does. Samantha goes on to say that she...

I'm afraid this is a world that has escaped me. You might know more about it. She says, I was able to acquire a jelly cat bunny at Liberty. There were hundreds of people lining up and the security was just insane around the bunnies. Yeah, I just don't get the jelly cat thing at all. No, I don't. But, I mean, I totally respect people who have a thing for...

collecting. It's all about completing, being the completest. Do you remember that we had, didn't we have, it was it beanie babies? Burbies? And all of that. Beanie babies? There's always something, isn't there? Yeah. And it is jelly cat at the moment. I don't think for me the aesthetic is quite appealing enough to join in. I thought jelly cats were actually cats. I didn't realize they were bunnies. Obviously they just veered into bunnies. I think they can, I'm, we're getting back to Cliff. I don't know what's going on that.

I'm on wobbly territory here. I don't know anything else. about the what's it what's it's. Samantha is going home today, so have a safe trip, and I'm glad you had a good time in London. And you'll write, actually, about the loss of people actually serving us. I don't like those restaurants that you go into and you order at a screen. McDonald's? Well, the McDonald's, yes, but also everyone's doing it, aren't they?

So It's who's the same, Leon's the same. And, you know, when you then go to the counter, you're meeting somebody who's got nothing. to say to you, you've got nothing to say to them, there's no need to have a conversation at all. Just think it's terrible. It's not very good, is it? No, I don't like it. God, I haven't had a McDonald's for ages. I think it's high time. What will you have? Quarter pounder, chips and a chocolate shake. What size chips? Oh, well, is there a medium. Yes, there is a medium prize. That's me. Yeah. Medium prize, yeah.

Okay. Empty chair, this one comes in from Jean, who says, have you heard of Empty Chairs, UK? Have you, Jane Garvey? I hadn't, but this, I think this is interesting. It's amazing. It started when after the founder's best friend took their own life, he decided to do something about it rather than turning in on himself. The premise is simple. The host books a table in a pub or coffee shop, whereas Orange has some empty chairs and sees who turns up. You then just chat for as long or as little as you want

with no pressure, agenda or age limit. It's only been going since the end of last year and already seems to have spread nationwide and beyond. This week there is an event in the Falkland Islands It's a brilliant idea and although maybe won't appeal to your typical listeners we will all know people who might benefit My own daughter went along last week

She works from home So has little or no interaction with real people During the week She loved it and met people Who had just moved into the area Or worked weekend shift So never saw his friends And the founder who just happens to live

in our area of South East Essex What a fantastic idea Let's amplify that So if you go into a pub or a coffee shop and there's somebody wearing orange and just sitting at a table this is what it is. Empty chairs UK, sit down, have a chat, spread the word.

I do think working from home is potentially completely shit for young people. Horrible. I just don't. It seemed like a good idea at the time. Not a good idea now at all. I mean, it was born of necessity, wasn't it? But then loads of companies adopted it because people seem to want it.

But no, I mean, I think it's just, it's a recipe for disaster. I mean, move to London, which is a big ask of anybody, work from your bedroom in a shared house, see nobody, speak to nobody in real life. I just think that sounds awful, and absolutely potentially quite disastrous. Yeah, I don't like that.

Unless you have already got a massive setup of loads of mates, you can spend time with outside working hours. But one of the great joys of being in an office is, or any other kind of work setting is being irritated by other people. Hugely. I absolutely love it. I mean, how big does a grab bag of hula hoops get and how long will it take everybody to get through it? Should we bring in a young person?

Hannah is in charge this week. Do you like working in an office with real people? I do. And you know what? Jokes aside, I just think it's nice because why would any of us spend time together in our real life? That's very rude. Yes, that is rude. But do you know what? I mean, we wouldn't come across each other. sort you out

I wish I don't think she'd sort off I would have but it's just nice isn't it because there's a group of people

that you wouldn't interact with otherwise and you learn like I learned so much from both of you I tell you what we like hearing

about and that's your nan now she she's got a few views and I just live I love hearing them what was it what was it

she said about that cardigan you sometimes the yellow one the yellow one so I got a yellow carder began earlier this year and it was a bit different for me, a different colour, a bit of a risk. And I was nervous about it. I sent it to my grandma's house, I'm not sure why, I was living

in a flat at the time that wasn't very reliable. And then I went and tried it on and then I came down and she just went, oh, well it looks better on. It looks better on, love. Well, there we are. And that's, it's sort of a compliment that, isn't it? Yeah. And then my boyfriend, I brought him home, she went, you're not wearing barrel leg jeans. are you? God, they're awful. I hate those. You give you no shape, James. No shape. She says it as it is. Was that her opening south? That was, yeah. Wow. Welcome to the family. Kind of lady who supports the England football team but bets on Norway to win. Okay. I like that. I like that. I absolutely love that. I've forgotten about that.

Right. What's her name? What's her first name? Elaine. Elaine. Right, okay. We love Elaine. And can we just ask without giving away too many secrets? How did young James respond to that? Did he pack up the barrel leg jeans and never wore them again? Or is he wearing them confidently, as he should actually? He's wearing them confidently, but I have noticed a little less than before. I think he gave her a cheeky smile and a wink. They've got a very playful relationship.

They message quite a lot. It's all this strange. It's me, Hannah. You foot, right, okay. It's Elaine in the frame there. Now, thank you. where that story's going to end. I think I want to know. Should we talk about offal?

Yes, let's talk about awful. I think that's much better. We'll veer off into waffle. Shan has emailed, she says she's a Welsh expat living in a sheep and beef farm in New Zealand. We're lucky enough to eat.

Now this is very much a carnivorous email. That's just what it is. And I eat meat. Are you issuing a trigger warning? I am. I am issuing a trigger warning. Sean says we are lucky enough to eat all our own meat and my Kiwi husband is not only the abattoir but also the gourmet butcher

his favourite part of killing the lamb is to put a steaming liver on a plate and just bring it down to the house gosh I mean I think we needed that warning but as I say I eat meat this is real liver bacon and onions is always next day's supper with a blob of creamy mashed potato

to mop up the glorious gravy. In my opinion, that's the best bit, she says. Nothing goes to waste as the offal from the lamb is cooked in a big drum. We call it the offal cooker. It's for imaginative, isn't it? And duly fed to our dogs. Over here, dogs don't eat raw offal due to the risk of a disease called ovus or sheep measles.

Wow, I think this is educational. One thing I love about New Zealand is the way you are allowed to kill and butcher meat for your own consumption and on our farm my husband always has. He always says the best animal goes to the house. It amazes me how this practical skill has been lost in the UK and when we come home he's often asked to kill a lamb on the sly. I mean this is real life. I mean obviously a lot of people will be slightly, you know, a little bit squeamish about what Sharns had to say. But one of the first farm things my kids were involved in was helping my dad kill a sheep up in the

Walshed as he firmly believed they needed to see the reality. I've been over here now for 30 years and have never ventured into the Walshed on those nights. Many thanks, Sir Sean. Well, thank you, Sean, for telling us about your experience in New Zealand. I mean, as I say, I can't afford to be judgmental because I'm a meat eater like most people. But it is interesting, isn't it? because it is, it does make you feel frankly a little bit uneasy. And I really appreciate Sean's honesty. I don't eat lamb anymore. Don't you?

No, for exactly that reason that I just, something has just changed. And for me, I know that it's on the conveyor belt towards vegetarianism, which I regard as my treat that lies at the end of parenting in the house. Yes, I can stop cooking meat once everybody's left, and they've had all their respective fittings. and minerals. Well, I must admit, when I've got the house to myself,

that's when I have a beef burger. Yeah, because you've got the opposite conveyor about. Yeah, I mean, well, one's left now, but, you know, she was the original vegan vera. And I've got to be honest, fee, those were challenging years. You know, I had quite a lot to do, and then trying to think of something constructed

to do with chickpeas. Yes, night after night. Anyway, she's left. Yeah. I mean, you know, we're not estranged. I have. She's just taken her wind somewhere else. She's gone to North London, as everybody seems to.

Well, certainly, there's definitely a beacon for the vegans in our neck of the words. That's true. I've only just recently discovered the black chickpea. Have you discovered this before? I don't know. I'm a complete stranger to it. It's a very, very dark chickpea. It's absolutely delicious.

Different taste, different texture. Much more nutty, actually. Okay. Just lovely. Like a little sweet. No, it's somewhere between Because the chickpee doesn't really taste very much, does it? Oh gosh, I mean that's very controversial.

Do you think it is? Well, I think people would try to tell you, I mean, those big, you know, the fat ones in the jar. Yeah, but they put something in that jar that makes all pulses a little bit sexier. What are you doing at bowl beans? Yes, but they do. They're bringing out of fruitiness that's not available in a normal tin.

That's true. But the black chickpea, yes, it's definitely much, it's slightly crunchier and a bit smokier. That's what it is. Smokier. It's a bit smoky. I'm enjoying it enormously. This one comes in from Amy, who says greetings from across the pond. Speaking of awful, earlier this year, I was enjoying a week in the lovely village of Corbridge in Northumberland.

I'd been told that the butcher shop sold the best scones in town, so I duly popped in. Whilst I was waiting for my sweet treat, I overheard an older lady asked the butcher for three pounds. of ox liver. Yes, that's the detail that... Yes, it's astonishing. Never have I felt the chasm between our two cultures run so wide or so deep. What on earth could anybody want with three pounds of ox lever?

I'm genuinely curious but equally afraid to know. Well, we share your slight fear, Amy. And Amy's PS is, you may remember me as the American lady from the lady's personal ad section, circa 2025. Oh, that was brilliant. still looking for my British dreamboat. Do you know what? We never really discussed the demise of the lady.

I mean, it's gone now, isn't it? A magazine has well and truly, it's defunct. It didn't get bought. We rather hoped it might get resurrected in a digital form just because we were enjoying the personal ads so much, as were so many other people. To return to the beginning of this podcast, Gerald. Gerald, I think, would have had a few success stories

via the personal ads in The Lady. There were also so many intriguing ads in that publication for domestic staff, weren't there? Which, I mean, just you forget that life exists. Well, I didn't know it really ever existed, but some of those ads were just incredible. Weren't they just? And it was usually for a couple

who were then going to be given a cottage in the grounds of the estate. And duties would include some mild, awful butchering, 24-hour childcare and probably looking after a lane. Yes, probably. And people were obviously very happy. It's a lovely life.

It's an absolutely lovely. life my my granny's family were all in service and really weirdly about two streets away from where I ended up living in east London you're telling me this so spooky isn't that strange yeah yeah sometimes life can really I don't know bite you on the bottom of it with spooky coincidence so he was the basically the kind of go-to-everything handyman of the house and his wife my granny's mom was the serving maid as she would have been called and yeah they lived in in North London. And just by sheer coincidence,

I ended up living three streets away. Or was it, Jane? Bromley. Spooky Tuesday in Bromley. Yeah. Well, it's not Bromley, but yes. Can you tell me your thoughts about the Devil Wears Prada too,

which you wanted to discuss a very long time ago and we finally got around. You've seen it now, have you? To watching it on Sunday night. Oh, gosh. Because you did ask me a couple of times to watch it. Oh, right. I didn't go to the Kinema.

But as I was watching it, I thought, what did Jane want to say about this? I can't remember what it was. It's not going to ask you me now. It was months ago. I probably had some very strong opinions for about three days and then gave up having them because you didn't have anything to say. I just remember thinking that everybody was very thin,

apart from the one character who wasn't. Charlie, Assistant Number 2. It was all just a bit strange, wasn't it? Stanley Tucci had some great suits. I do remember that. And what else did I? I don't think there's anything else. that I would observe.

I must admit, what I liked about it was that it, I was going to say, it passed the time and it wasn't too long. This is why I'm not a film critic. But I thought there was an enjoyable atmosphere in the cinema. Okay, that's interesting. That's hopeless, isn't it? Did you see it at home? So we saw it at home.

Is it streaming now? It is streaming now. And maybe that's what we were missing was a lot of other people thoroughly enjoying and evening out. Because they were, I felt. Because the plot was... Well, it's Wafferthin, like most of the cast. Beyond Waffer Thin.

I thought the clothes were exceptional, but definitely if you had the figure of a coat hanger. Stanley Tucci just now deliciously plays Stanley Tucci. I'd like to think he's given up on any kind of method acting, and he is just Stanley Tucci. I'm always happy to see him. I mean, he's suave and sophisticated, and he just looks so hygienic.

He just looks like a very, very hygienic man. He does look spruced, doesn't it? Yes, he does. Be a right old letdown if he met him and he was a bit more. It's been stinky. I can't believe he for you. I don't think he would be at all. Meryl Streep is so beautiful as an older Meryl Streep, isn't she?

I mean, really, really amazingly, amazingly beautiful. Did I tell you I understand her with her once? I want to talk about awful again. Because Sonia, Sonia says. Yes. My ex-husband once bought Lambheart. from the supermarket. I think the ex is doing a bit of heavy lifting there.

I gave them to our delighted and grateful cat and feigned ignorance that they were meant for human consumption. Right. A friend once went to a Chinese restaurant in Somerset where the waitress asked, would you like to hear about our aorta special? He said no. Right.

Okay, I mean, do you think we've exhausted awful? I think we might have done. But people are still eating it. That was the question. and I asked. Oh, I should just bring in Dave, who grew up in Liverpool and can't stand sport. Never been to a football match in his life, he says. And I'm not sure if I've really missed out on anything. I'm no problem with the TV channels being taken over by the World Cup. Lots of people love it. It's a good thing that there's a shared sense of excitement. But I think I'll just water the garden a bit more.

And I do, I appreciate people who just haven't got a scrap of interest and they don't want to feign it. And why the hell should you? You enjoy yourself, Dave, in the garden. He's grew up, he says, eating awful. Doesn't eat it every week or every month, but does enjoy a bit of kidney in a pie or a stew. Liver and mashed potato in onion gravy is one of life's true comfort foods, he says. And of course, paté. Loads of people eat patte without a thought.

Is it the idea of what it is rather than the taste, I wonder? I think that's true because people don't, they do eat paté without questioning how it was produced and the awful ingredient. I mean, chicken liver patte is made of. Chicken levers and cream. That's basically it, isn't it? Is it? Anyway, I hope if you live near Dave, you get to admire his garden because he's going to be out doing a lot of watering tomorrow evening. And tomorrow evening would be a great time to sneak into a gallery that you usually can't get into to get a table at a previously booked out restaurant. You know, there will be a lot of opportunities

for the non-sporting person, so make the most of them. Yeah, one of my younger offspring was trying to find a pub with room for tomorrow night. Finally, I finally nailed one down. But should we say, Fie, quite an unfashionable destination. Really? Yeah. I'll just write it down and express amazement.

This is how far she's heard. Okay. Oh dear. Is that Zone 4? I have to get my food beyond it. God. No offence. What happens beyond Zone 4?

Nobody knows. Final one from me. We've got a fantastic guest. A guest who giveth energy. Andy Oliver is on the podcast today. She's talking about her work with water aid, but we talk about lots of other things too. I've pretended we've already done the interview there,

but we haven't yet done the interview. No, I got confused, which is why I kept you waiting in here for 10 minutes. I was outside looking at books. No, I was doing a different pre-recorded interview with a fantastic man called Richard, which you'll be able to hear, I think, as the Friday bonus episode.

So he's a former prison inmate, whose life in prison was really turned around by yoga. And it's one of those things that you just, you know what the reaction of some people will be to that statement. But I would defy you not to listen to Richard's story and perhaps change your mind. Okay. That's interesting. A little bit. He's got some very interesting things to say about reoffending rates in particular. He was a total yoga beginner. So he had been to one yoga class before on the outside and hated it. And then when he was inside and at a real low point he saw an ad in prison for yoga and he openly admits he just went along because he just

wanted to get out of his cell for an hour but there was something that really worked for him and and he credits it with having kept him on the straight and narrow through his passage leaving prison apart from anything else oh i just wanted to say that i was really sad to hear about the death of patricia green who was the actress who played jill archer all those years in ambridge uh she really did serve her time. And I don't know how many lemon drizzle cakes and how many flapjacks that woman had made. But she died at the age of 95. And, you know, she was still working from her care home. She would, they would send a producer in and she would record some of her lines. So I met her actually once and she was a very, very, I was going to know, the sweet would be the wrong

word because she was much sparkier than sweet suggests. And she had, should we say, a sense of humour about Ambridge and its residence. But she was absolutely lovely woman, so I was very sorry to hear about that one. Right, let's bring in our guest, Andy Oliver. Menopause is this long, isn't it? It's long, isn't it? It's very long. That's the one thing they don't tell you, is that how long?

You sort of get warned a little bit, you know, there are pointers about things that might be a bit tricky, but what nobody says is that 10 years later, it's still happening. And has it got better for you or worse? It's got better for me because I'm on hormones. Yeah. But I did fall foul of the deadly too much testosterone putting on. Do you know about this? What happened to you?

I became a gnarly bloke, basically. I was like, what? What do you mean? Couldn't work out why I wanted to punch everyone in the face. And then I realised it was because I was putting on too much testosterone. And I literally turned into a sort of pubescent, like, stroppy teenage, boy it was really fascinating antipologically really disturbing personally

so you felt an aggression that I've never felt before in my life and impatience like really like one of the girls that works for me saying I was going well it's a problem what do you think it is like just really gnarly and unpleasant actually and then I thought do you know what I think I'm like

you don't want me having too much that disgusting and I stopped it like cold turkey did it went weird again for another two days and then leveled back out and i was like it's definitely did and then spoke to dr louise newsome who is the HRT brilliant woman to talk to and she said oh my god you got me so careful with it it's like a it's supposed to like a kind of like almost like a tiny little marble sized on i mistook the energy of it at the beginning well the the feeling of it was energy so i started putting more on because that's what i'm like i'm like oh, I like that, I'll have more.

I never read dosages on things. I never, I mean, it's ridiculous. I'm a grown person, I really should. But I was like... Also, you're a chef. It should matter. It should matter, right? But I was like, oh, this is fantastic. I'll have more.

And then... So then I mistook aggression for energy. So I kept thinking, I feel really like I've got some vines. Boy, yeah, brilliant. And actually, I was just vile for about a month. Absolutely vile. Right. Well, thank God you stopped, because otherwise... Yeah, so careful of the testosterone.

be running for prime minister and then you'd be invading them at least. You would. You'd interrupting everybody else's conversations with incredibly unhelpful suggestions, standing with your legs of Kimbo going it'll cost you laugh. And we'd all be, uh, we'd be worse off if you were a bloke, Andy. Can I just say that? I like the fact that you're still a woman. I don't think it would be good, right.

You know what we don't need? A bloke me. That's not what anybody needs. Right, we will come back to talk about some of your other stuff, but I know that you've got something very important to talk about here and we are absolutely happy to give you a platform to do this. So I have just got back from Malawi Fee with the Wimbledon Foundation and Water Aid.

I had what I can only describe as a profound journey. It was extraordinary this trip. I've never been to Malawi before. It's southern East Africa. I've never been there before. It's one of... It's a country with a lot of challenges. It's quite poor.

there are a lot of rural communities that don't have access to water. And this seems like on paper it's like, oh, that must be troublesome or tricky, challenging. But actually what it means, the practical reality of what it means to not have access to clean water on a daily basis is just so deep. Like I met a woman called Dina who has to fetch water eight times a day. She gets up at 2 o'clock in the morning to go down the side of quite a precipitous moment. mountain every single day and then she comes back up with 20 litres of water on her head. And this woman, when I tell you, this woman was one of the most positive, hopeful, joyful people I've ever met in my life.

It was a really humbling experience because I kept meeting people who had challenges that to me would have been insurmountable because I'm spoiled and I'm from Suffolk, do you know what I mean? And yet they traversed them with this incredible. positivity and hope. And what I realized was that when, so they've got water coming to her village. Dina's got water coming to her village in four weeks time because there's this new technology that they've developed,

which means that they can go. I think it was 60 metres they were able to go down. Now they can get like 120. So they've had this brilliant water consultant in. He's found water. So they are drilling as we speak. So they're making a borehole. They will collect the water.

It will be sent up to tanks. and this village is going to have water in four weeks time. And when I said to Dina, what will that mean for you? She said, it means I'll be able to be a mother to my children. I'll be able to spend time with my husband. And I'm a carpenter. I'm going to open a shop. And she's going to make picture frames and furniture and do all the stuff.

And I thought, God, she's got so much, like, engagement with her future, so many dreams, so much hope and so much real, genuine attachment to it. you know, she really is driven by this brilliant, brilliant energy. And I was just inspired by that and to be around people who could harness that kind of positivity in the face of such a challenging daily existence. So then I went to another village, Tundu, and where they'd already had water brought to them.

And this place is buzzing. It's like it's on the edge of transformation. You can feel the energy and it's growing. You can almost see it physically. happening around this building everywhere there are three massive tanks in the middle of the village and then two of those tanks are to service kangolwa health centre which is this extraordinary health centre that's been there for quite a long time it didn't have water and now they have water prior to having water they had problems with cross infection women had to give birth then go down the side of yet

another mountain down the side just to wash in a sort of very small pond really, after they'd given birth, literally hours after they're given birth, going down the side of a mountain, and then they were vulnerable, people were slip and hurt themselves, people got attacked, it was just a horrible set of circumstances. After the advent of water, they've got showers, they've got toilets, they've got these brilliant facilities, it's this incredible health centre that it's more than just a health centre, it's more like a community hub, it's like the heart of the community, this place. and two of the tanks of water service Kangolwa

and the other tank services the village itself so people can wash their clothes, they can shop, they can cook, they can do all sorts of brilliant things and there's a great tagline that WaterAid have that just says everything starts with water and it really, it hits you so hard the truth of that simple sentence. You mentioned the Wimbledon Foundation,

so what is the connection between the Wimbledon Foundation this and the tennis. So Wimbledon Foundation, I think money that we spend at Wimbledon, you know, it's a bag and you're like, oh, that's quite a lot of my 10 pounds. But actually the money that you're spending at Wimbledon for those tickets and all that stuff,

that all of the revenue that they create, part of that funds the Wimbledon Foundation. The Wimbledon Foundation have these brilliant projects that they partner with other people to deliver in lots of different places. One of those projects is with water aid in Malawi. And it's just fantastic, seeing where that's, money goes, how it affects people in real life terms, how it affects them on the ground in their

lives day to day. It's got a huge impact. It's just brilliant fee. So I don't think many people would make that connection and see behind the All-English Tennis Club and the Strawberries and Cream to a project like this in Malawi. And I love that Wimbledon Foundation does that work actually because, as you say, it's kind of slightly incongruous. You don't really even necessarily think about anything further than the tennis, do you? But actually they're very invested in the future of the next generations of people coming up in places more than just here

in the UK and I think that's a brilliant thing. So what a contrast. You go on this amazing trip to Lawi but then you did mention as you came into the studio you had also been at Wimbledon this summer which I think is just, I know that Al Kras wasn't there, Emeraldi didn't make it there Whatever, it was still unbelievable. I saw Arthur Ferry. Arthur Ferry, sweet boy, oh my God, he's so adorable. So tell me about the atmosphere on court for Arthur Ferry.

Electric. And it was like he's everybody, everybody is his auntie, everybody is his uncle or he's, you know what I mean, or like cousin. That's what it felt like he was playing and the whole court was willing him on. And tell me about Wimbledon itself for people. Have you been? years ago, but I'll just be honest about this, Andy. I was a guest of the BBC, so I went in, you know, a special

entrance and I mean, it was glorious. Absolutely glorious. We saw the match of all matches. We saw Roger Federer versus Raffa and Adal. Oh, that match! You were there! But the awful thing, Andy was, no, the awful thing. I was pregnant at the time and I was about

seven and a half months pregnant, and I just needed to have a week all the time. And we were sitting right in the middle of the box. We were sitting next to George Osborne and his wife. Are you in the Royal Box? Not the Royal Box, but the BBC box. I don't think it was the Royal Box. Can't have been the Royal Box? I've been in the Royal Box. Have you, darling? Well, come to that and just say, I will make my anecdote very brief because I want to know about yours more. But we were sitting next door to people who quite rightly, and I'm not saying that George Osbourne

was ticky about it at all. He was a very understanding. But I just kept on having to go out and say, I'm so sorry, excuse me. I'm so sorry, excuse me. So after the second set, my husband and I just say do you know what we're just slightly burning it for everybody else let's just go home I'm sure Federer's going to win and then of course Nidal it just went it was one of the matches

the greatest tennis matches of all time of all time I remember it and we left and we left tell me about your Royal Box experience well the Royal Box was a few years ago actually and it was a I mean it's ridiculously fancy it's the fanciest day of your life basically we were there

me and my partner Garthel were there with Sophie Yocanado, this brilliant chef I know called Sillin Gassim was there and we were all hanging out together and at one point Sophie or somebody said God, so you have this really fancy lunch we had lunch with Stanley Tucci and the blunts and all sorts of you know it's this ridiculous thing going on and every time you turn around

I met Shirley Bassie made an absolute fool of myself because I lost the ability to speak Garthel said you've got to go over and speak to her And Andy that's not like you. I know he said you've got to go and speak to her because she's my all-time hero I wanted to be her, her or her a kit were my options as a child. So I went over and I said, Miss Bassett, I just

have to tell you how much you've influenced my life and I just want to thank you so much and I managed to get that and then she asked me a question and I went, I literally lost the ability and she looked at me like, oh bless. Like you poor thing who works for carer she was looking for my carer and I just had

to leave, I was so embarrassed and the poor guy that was in and literally like, what is the matter with you? Oh, Andy, I'm sorry. But anyway, it's a lot of it. just the sheer power of it when you're sitting in that, in the court, watching them, is breathtaking. You can't believe the athleticism. You can't believe how strong they are. And you can't believe the endurance. It just really makes you feel a bit quite tiny and weak.

Yeah. Which you're not. Which are not. No, no, neither of those things. And just to return to your visit to Malawi for a bit. So when you meet people whose lives have been so dictated by the scarcity of a resource like water that we completely and utterly take for granted. When you come back to this country, does it genuinely change something about yourself? And also, Andy, you work in an industry in the restaurant and food business,

which has gone in quite a polarised direction, hasn't it? The stuff at the top... Right. So over the top. So expensive. So at the top, yes. at the top and yet right down at the bottom so, so rubbish. So tell me where your head lies.

Oh, the bottom's so rubbish. Well, yes, that's true. My head lies, do you mean in relation to coming back with the knowledge that I have from Malawi? Yes, whether it does kind of, you know, I can imagine you being more cynical and I'd understand that. No, I'm not really. I think what's happened for me is that literally, every time I turn off, the tap will take it for granted i think don't take it for granted you might you there but for the grace of god you would not have this you know this tiny little sliver of sort of shifts so when i did my

DNA i i discovered that i some of my dna is from the west bantu people loads of people in milarva are west bantu people and i i they were teaching me words and she said you're saying them really really well we went through this thing and i said oh i discovered that i've got west bantu blood actually and she said oh it's your blood is remembering which i thought was quite a deep thing to say, I was like, oh my God. But I just feel like we are inches away from

our humanity and our human experience being something completely different all the time. And that's something that we forget to hear in this country. You know, we could be living on the street, the difference between us like sitting in the studio and then losing our job and losing our house. It can be moments that, you know, tiny little

things happen which turn people's lives around. So, coming back from somewhere Malawi, somewhere like Malawi has meant for me that I just feel that all of that is in much more stark contrast than it usually is, I suppose. Whether that will last, I hope that it lasts because it's made me more thoughtful. It's made me more thoughtful about the work that we do. It's made me more grateful for all the things that I've got in my life. And it's made me really want to go back to Malawi actually and see how people like Dina are getting on in a year's time when they all have had

water for a whole year. I want to see her carpentry shop. I want to see all the things that she's going to bring into being. She went, I'm going to be like you. I'm going to do whatever I want. And I was like, I really want that for you. I really want you to be able to do whatever you want and to be able to follow your dreams and to do those things. I guess the one thing that I really kept thinking about since I got back is this idea of community and like social, real connection, human social connection. And community is a word that is bandied around quite a lot, and it's like lost a lot of its real heft and power.

But it's actually such a huge thing, how we connect to each other as human beings, how important that is on a daily kind of minutiae level, you know, is something that we can really forget. People are with moaning because they can hear their neighbours or moaning because there's people playing in the park or moaning because they can't park their car. And it's like, do you know what?

You're so lucky that you've got neighbours. You're so lucky that there's a park. We're so lucky that we've got each other. So it's made me remember to step towards the gratitude in my life and the good things in my life and the simple pleasures and comforts that I've got in my life, but not to also at the same time as being grateful and happy about all of that, to remember to do things that uplift our neighbour and each other.

Can I get political with you, please? Yes, please. So working in the restaurant business, catering business, we know that so many parts of that industry are absolutely on their knees. And there does seem to be something different coming over the horizon in terms of policy towards the restaurant industry. If Andy Burnham does what Andy Burnham said he was going to do, which is to take a look at business rates, to take a look at VAT,

to do something to help hospitality. What do you want from him? I want them to listen to the, industry and to be realistic about what's going on. You know, there's a lot of conversation where, you know, at the moment there's been chat that is a bit like, well, the top end's doing okay, so everything must be all right. How can it possibly be all right when you can see how many pubs and restaurants are closing every single day?

Also, pubs and restaurants are doing quite well, by the way. It's not necessarily pubs and restaurants that are empty. People are closing who are full all the time because they can't afford to turn the lights on. If that is the situation, how can you possibly justify the framework that's in place right now? It's just, it doesn't make any sense to me. It doesn't make any sense to anyone. And it's also double, VAT is double what it is in the rest of Europe, where we have really healthy restaurant industries.

You know, Spain and Italy, go to all these gorgeous little places. They're doing fine, thank you very much. So it's just logical and it makes total sense to bring things into line with the rest of Europe, whether we're part of Europe or not. and make things manageable because the hospitality industry employs so many people. It makes brand new jobs for loads of young people. It creates this incredible environment where people who didn't necessarily do brilliantly at school or didn't necessarily work, aren't able to work through different areas,

suddenly thrive and suddenly find themselves with the talent that they didn't know they had and suddenly can do this brilliant, beautiful thing that everybody needs on a day. basis. It's such a basic, beautiful service that we deliver. So it should be supported and it should be nurtured. And it's also a place that AI can't get to. A.I. won't be able to walk across a restaurant serve you with a smile. It won't be able to chop onions in a kitchen. A.I. Can't make a great omelet. AI can't like whip up some amazing saltfish bulgol. Can it? Excuse me? I know. I thought you'd like that word. I said that just for you actually. But, you know, AI can't do that

And I think that's a, you know, that it's one of the brilliant parts of our industry. There's all sorts of other areas that are alarming, you know. And do you think that this is a crisis point like there has not been in your lifetime? I've never seen anything like this before. I mean, I've never seen it in any industry. You know, it's the same with actors that I know.

It's the same with writers, producers, directors. Suddenly all the things that we've taken for granted for years and it's in broadcasting as well, all the things that have just been part of our day. lives and part of our daily reality, the shift is vast. But you can't replace, I mean, the clue is in the title, artificial. You know, you can't, artificial and the real deal will never be the same because you can't, it's a facsimile of something that is a human,

it's like trying to replicate the human heart, but you can't, that shift in music, that groove where it slips a little bit because it's made by human beings, as soon as you get a machine to make that you lose the sexiness of the music you lose the heartbeat you lose that kind of human nuance that you know nothing can replicate that yeah you and I once worked

at a radio station together didn't we way way back in the day when I started yeah I mean I was nervous to talk to you Andy because you're so super cool I mean you were super super super cool back then you're super super super cool now I can't believe that you are I think are you already in your 60s I'm 63 63

Congratulations. Thank you. What did that, Andy Oliver, way back. I mean, we're talking the early 1990s, a long time ago, wasn't it? A, time ago. What do you think A, she would make of what you've achieved, which I think is phenomenal. Oh, thank you.

And just taught me through what you would have liked her to know back then. I, oh, bless her. She was having quite a hard time, you know. I was struggling with depression. and grief and all sorts of things at that time, really. When I first met you, I was really just coming through, starting to come through some of that, the grief of losing my brother and all sorts of problems that I'd had after that. I had an eating disorder and all sorts of things.

I was just starting to see the light again, actually, when I met you, I think. Can I just say, then, how amazing, because I remember the Andy Oliver that I met back then, not giving any of that away actually, Andy. I mean, I thought you were super confident. You were part of this amazing music scene in London. We were working on a station that was predominantly music, wasn't it? And you carried yourself with so much confidence. I would never have known that that was such a dark time.

And also, I thought you were incredibly cool and smart and brainy. I was like, oh my God, you're so quick. How am I going to keep up? Well, I thought when I met you, remember we did a couple of broadcast together? We did, didn't we? And you went, girl on girl action. And I went, Ah!

We had a great time. Isn't that funny, though, when you look back at moments, like sort of, you know, a strand of time like that, and you just never know what's going on inside another person. I was a real mess, actually. I think I might just started to be having a little bit of therapy around about that time. So I was starting to find a vocabulary for it,

but I was not in a good place at all. I wish for her to answer your first question that she knows there's a sight that there's a sight that there's a light at the end of the tunnel that actually just keep doing what you're doing keep putting one foot in front of the other and also that you're right by the way

you should do the things you love don't start letting other people tell you what to do because you know there's been so many times in my life where I have stepped towards it you know you just got to be I've never been scared to be broke basically which is just as well, because I've been broke for most of my life. I'm not now, but I was for so many years.

And it's because I never was able to do the things that other people thought I should do to make money and to, you know, go down a path that they were deemed to be the route to success, so to speak. But actually, the path I was going down was perfectly fine, and I was on the right route for me. So I would like her to know that you're on the right route, just keep doing what you're doing and keep putting one foot in front of the other and don't forget to breathe. Dear girl.

And what would she think of you now? I think she'd be all right with me now. I think I'm the best version of myself. And I've never lost myself along the way, I don't think. And I think she would be relieved that I've learned how to breathe in and out fully and to have faith in myself, you know, because that was always my... I would have faith in myself and then have so many... It'd be wrapped with doubt and, like, oh, I've just messed it up again, because me and my mouth.

You in your big mouth. Do you know what I mean? I was constantly opening my mouth foot in mouth syndrome. But actually, it's all right. You know, I think there's so many young people feel like that or younger people feel like that, like they're not, that they don't have a right to be in the room or at the table or whatever anybody wants to call it.

And yes, you do. And just the thing that you find to be true is enough. Well, I was in awe of you then. I'm in awe of you now. How lovely to catch up with you, Andy. Always be. Thank you very much. A delight.

Andy Oliver, a firm supporter of water aid. It is a great charity. We just take it for granted, don't we? We turn on the tap. Sometimes at the moment I slightly complain to myself because the water's a bit warm when it comes out because of our hot summer. I know, but we shouldn't complain.

We shouldn't complain at all. Tomorrow we're going to get some style tips from Amanda Wakely. What will you wear for that interview? Well, I've been debating exactly this. I think I'll do my Wednesday dowdy level best to live down to expectations. Okay. So Amanda can, you know, attempt to judge me up a little bit. But the trouble is, her book is quite interesting.

She's written a book about, what's it called? I can't remember style. Style DNA. And actually, my mom was quite, she was a stylish dresser, but I'm afraid to say it hasn't, I haven't got it. I'll never have it. I don't have it. I dress pretty much for comfort.

Don't say anything. Don't rush to contradict that. And she hasn't, everybody. But I do think so many clothes look great on somebody of 5'8, 9 and 10. Oh, no, day. And they're not going to be. Anyway, Amanda Wakely is with us tomorrow, which I'm looking forward to. One day, I think we should both wear our blue and white striped shirts

and our light-colored trousers. because apart from anything else, we just look like Wimbledon officials. We could sit on either side of the desk and just call it out when it's out. Ite. I don't really need to do that anymore, do they? That's been taken over by the computer too. Oh, yes. Well, I will look forward to saying, don't call yourself Dowdy.

I'm hoping that you're... No, you've got a very nice green and white summer dress. I'd like to see that tomorrow. Oh, perhaps I could wear that. Yes, thank you. Yes, I wear that. So we're that and we will discuss StyleDNAE with Amanda Wakely. That's it from us, goodbye. Enjoy your liver.

Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do it live every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.