Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Ground Control to Major Tim - with Tim Peake

Episode Date: October 13, 2022

Jane and Fi have reached the end of their first week in the new job and are very much looking forward to the weekend. But before they can recharge the batteries ready for more they sit down for another edition of the podcast.Joining them today is the astronaut Major Tim Peake, who is embarking on a new adventure...writing a children's book. 'The Cosmic Diary of our Incredible Universe is out today. He also talks about the future of space exploration, the concerns about space tourism and reveals what he told his wife before he left for the international space station.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Radio Producer: Rosie CutlerPodcast Executive Producer: Ben Mitchell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Hello and welcome to Off Air with me, Jane Garvey.

And me, Fee Glover. And we are fresh from our brand new Times Radio show, but we just cannot be contained by two hours of live broadcasting. So we've kept the microphones on, grabbed a cuppa and are ready to say what we really think. Unencumbered and off-air. Welcome to day four of Jane and Fi off-, which is the pocket-sized version of our live Times Radio show, Monday to Thursday, three till five. And we're speaking in the decompression chamber, which they put us into after the live show. And how would you... I like coming in here.

I like coming in here. It's like a cosy place. It definitely has a different kind of blend of oxygen, I think. Maybe we're just not doing enough deep breathing when we're in the studio together. We should say we are in this new building at News UK and the lifts boast some sort of purified air, don't they? Do they? Yeah. Have you not seen that sticker that's in the lift? No, I haven't. I'm a bit confused by the list because they're those very modern ones where you press on a screen the floor that you want to go to, and then it tells you which lift is going to come and take you there. And I cannot get used to not getting in a lift

and pressing the button for the floor. I find it very disconcerting, Jane. It does a lot of the work for you. No, you may. But what happens if you change your mind? You can't. Well, I don't like that. Okay.

I'm putting that out there. It does take choice out of the picture. You're quite right. I haven't thought of it that way something we should say is that well we are boasting a bit are you about to boast? I am about to boast and that is to say first of all thank you for listening to this podcast

and putting it in the charts which we really do appreciate tell all your friends tell those friends who may have lost faith in us lost interest frankly that we are available in this handy form daily after our live radio show but we're also in another chart in fact we're not just in the chart we're at the top of the chart what chart is that for well this is a so this is a classic humble brag coming isn't it so we've written a book together we've ended up top of the Silver Surfers chart this week.

Can I just say, it's the all-important Silver Surfers chart. We're number one in Amazon paperback Silver Surfers books. And it's no mean feat. And we are delighted. We'll take it. And if we only exist purely to make our kids find things funny about us then we've succeeded again this week yeah i think for a while we were number one in radio plays though weren't we and although we've both worked in radio and sometimes we have played at work

but we've never written a radio play and the book isn't a radio play so i love sometimes it's a bit like the lifts you know you you make all these lovely algorithms and you make all this fantastic fancy schmancy modern stuff. There's always a bit of a gap where human experience could tell you a thing or two. Yeah.

Very old fashioned. Usually that's your job to be old fashioned. Perhaps secretly you are older than me. Tonight, it's Thursday as we speak. And I should say

that I think potentially the worst TV show ever made is on telly tonight. Excellent. So if you happen to be available to watch after you've heard this, 8 o'clock BBC One. It'll also be on the iPlayer. How they've got the audacity to stick it on the iPlayer, I don't know. It's Unbreakable, everybody, in which Rob Beckett, the comedian, takes some apparently celebrity couples. And I'm normally very resistant to those people who go, celebrity, I didn't know any of them,

because often it's just people's ignorance that they don't know who these people are. You will struggle to recognise anybody in this Unbreakable show. And what's the format of Unbreakable? The format is it's a knockout teamed with, do you remember Mr and Mrs? I used to rather like Mr and Mrs. There's a gentle charm about Mr and Mrs, although you always sense there was the potential

for real grief just beneath the surface. Oh, I think after the show, yeah. All sorts of things would be said, and possibly worse. No, this is hideous, and Rob Beckett is helped by some relationship experts to assess the strength of the celebrity relationships at play as they are tested by a series of physical challenges. It's absolute trifle, as I hope I've illustrated.

But the best thing about it is that one of the celebrities, I did recognise Denise Welsh, to be fair. I like Denise. And she has a very nice boyfriend. But it's Charlie Mullins, the guy who sold Pimlico Plumbers. Do you know the guy I mean? I know exactly who you mean. Yes. And he has, you'll be amazed to hear, his partner.

She's a singer-songwriter. She's called Ra Ra. Do you think she's older or younger than Charlie Mullins? Charlie Mullins is 69. I think she's probably 72, Joan, with a name like that. She's not. Well, I mean, love comes in all manner of ways.

Ages, demographics. No, it doesn't. Needs, wants, desires. So who are you to judge? Oh, I'm absolutely no one. And I wouldn't turn down a celebrity plumber if one came my way i'd love to see the the itv retaliation program which of course is called breakable yeah where exactly the same couples go and see if they can split up amicably on itv

let's see okay well there we are absolute world away from unbreakable is our guest today. Because we loved talking to him, didn't we? Yeah, we had a proper class act. Yes, exactly. Someone who's actually done something proper. Not that plumbing isn't proper, but Tim Peake, astronaut to the stars. Do you know what? We should have asked him about plumbing dramas in space, shouldn't we?

What happens when your U-bend goes? I'm not even sure. I mean, it is always a real temptation with an astronaut to just veer into toileting really early on. I thought you did very well. We were both so determined that we wouldn't, that I think we might have just missed a golden opportunity to ask about U-bends in space. Well, I'm sure that they do have some tools up there. They would be unwise if they didn't. And actually, I think probably there are some plumbing firms who would promise that they'd come out to space. Pimlico plumbers.

I mean, you'd need a quid or two, but I bet they'd say they would. Other plumbing firms are available. Yeah, we can get there by Wednesday morning. Drums, fingers on table on Thursday evening. Can I just do a couple of very quick emails before we introduce the Tim Peake? Just because this one is from Emily on Twitter. And for some reason, the staff here, hello Ben, have put it in bold. I've just tuned into Times Radio and blimey that Jane Garvey is broadcasting royalty. Her voice alone grounds me. I'm very pleased they've got this new show. I'm just circling alone in that sentence. Look, come on, the Slough Cooperative.

Where are you when I need you? Right, should we go into Tim Peake? Yes, I think we, Tim, how do you describe him? He is Britain's second astronaut, the first Britain to do a spacewalk, the first Britain to go to the International Space Station. Before that, he was a helicopter pilot. He was at Sandhurst. Then he was a helicopter pilot. Then he was a test pilot. And then through the European Space Agency, he was recruited to go up to the International Space Station.

And he's just, as most astronauts, I think all astronauts are, a truly extraordinary human being. But as he says in the interview, it's a certain type of personality that succeeds at this extraordinarily high level. Yeah, they may have weeded out the people who are a bit like, well, space, whatever. So you are going to get the people who are highly enthusiastic.

More importantly, they've weeded out the prats. Because you can't be, there's no room for an egomaniac in space or someone with an ego of any kind, actually. Wouldn't it be fantastic? Actually, do you know what? That's the game show that you want. Put normal people through a little bit of the psychological space testing programme. I'd like to see that, genuinely.

That's a really good idea. Well, I'm formatting that. You're my witness. You can present it. So shall we hear a little bit of Tim? He is in to talk about a book that he's written, which is aimed at kids to explain to them every single thing to do with our known universe. I mean, the inspiration has really come from from spacewalking and looking down on planet Earth. But in terms of actually the big questions in life, where did we come from? How did we get here? What are we all made of? They were the kind of questions that I would ask myself as a young lad looking up to the stars and wondering.

So this book is definitely my attempt to try and answer that and to put some really big questions down and understandable into the format that children will enjoy. OK, so did you write your address on the inside of a school notebook tim peak number 16 acacia avenue blah blah blah blah earth the universe or was it earth the milky way the universe was which one was it it was i mean it the funny thing is that actually although you do that as a child when um i had the opportunity to go into space it almost feels like you you want to put that as your address again. My address was, you know, the deck floor of the International Space Station in a location near planet Earth. And what was really funny is I actually had a letter delivered to the space station from Her Majesty the Queen that had had a dress on it.

And it was the most wonderful thing to receive up on the space station. So do you now see your life as the years pre-space station and post-space station in terms of the way you think about your life? I do, but I wouldn't say it's that in isolation. I think all of us, as we journey through life, we pick up experiences from so many different things that we do, whether they're actually part of our job, whether they're physical experience, whether they're actually part of our job, whether they're a physical experience, whether they're emotional experiences. And certainly traveling into space was a major part of my life and has had a big impact. But so was being a test pilot. So was becoming a father.

And so I kind of feel that, you know, life goes through in these incremental phases. But yes, space is definitely a huge part of it i suppose what i'm really getting at is the kind of stuff that i think william shatner has talked about that impression that you get from space of our home planet and how it changes you what about that yes it does it does change you forever really and it gives you a completely different perspective of the planet and it And it's something that I draw strength from, actually. I can always see myself up on the space station looking down at Earth and realizing how incredibly beautiful our planet is, but also how fragile it looks against this vast black backdrop of space.

And we are just traveling through a very ordinary solar system orbiting a very ordinary star in this ordinary galaxy of the Milky Way. And it does allow you to kind of step back and see things in a slightly different perspective. So you do this enormous amount of training on planet Earth and then you go up to the International Space Station. Have you come across people who cannot make the same kind of connection with where they are, though? So they do slightly lose it once they get to space, even though they have trained to imagine themselves to be in that situation? I've not heard that from any professional astronauts. Our training is so incredibly thorough and it prepares you for every eventuality. And it is difficult to fully prepare you for weightlessness and the view of Earth and how your perception will change.

But generally speaking, we've trained so long and so hard that it's not such a shock to the system that when you go into space that you do have a major change. I love the way that you said professional astronauts. Are there amateur astronauts? Where are they? Well, it's interesting that previously you might have thought that every astronaut was a professional astronaut. But there's a big difference between an international space station crew member who is qualified to fly spacecraft, dock spacecraft, do spacewalks, medical training, etc. So perhaps somebody who might fly into space with Blue Origin or Virgin Galactic, who has done a very small amount of training just so that they can look after themselves for a very short duration flight. What personality traits should immediately disqualify you from becoming an astronaut

or a resident of the space station? Well, you're not looking for extremes of personality. So neither extremely introvert nor extrovert in terms of how you relate to other people as well. You want people to be confident, not fearful, but you don't want them to be overconfident. So if you're looking at the psychological profile of an astronaut, it will be kind of down the middle in most of the categories. I think I know already what the answer to this is, but have you ever been on the space station or during the time that you were there, did you ever come across someone who you thought should not have been there because of their personality?

No, absolutely not. I knew you were going to say that, Tim. We work so closely with our teammates. We do all sorts of training, for example, seven days living in a cave and 12 days living underwater. These environments are designed to put us under stress, into difficult circumstances, to test us to our limits. So we get to know ourselves very well.

We get to know our crewmates very well. And we get to practice all of those really important interpersonal relationships. So you don't want any conflict, any clash of personalities in space. And by the time we get to the space station, we pretty much have dealt with all of that during our training. Right. And how quickly, and this sounds very factious, but how quickly does weightlessness become, well, frankly, not a novelty, a bit of a nuisance? I don't think it ever does become a nuisance. It's something that you have to spend a bit of time getting used to.

And it gets frustrating at the very early stages because it's like learning to do any sport, any skill. You're not very good at it. It's very easy to misplace things. If you leave something floating in space, look away, look back, it will not be there. You know, no matter how delicately you try and release it, it's going to float away. But the more you get used to working in weightlessness, actually, it becomes a very liberating environment. And you can actually work really quickly, really efficiently. You can use all the volume in a small space. I mean, we have so much wasted volume in the rooms that we're all in here on Earth that we're not using. On the space station, we're using every inch of volume inside that

spacecraft. So Tim, this is the first children's non-fiction book about space, the one that you've written. Do today's kids ask the same questions and need to know the same things as your generation needed to know as kids? And do you have to take on board all of the different ways that children at the moment can find facts and entertainment and enjoy virtual reality? And they're different, aren't they, in lots of ways? Yeah, clearly things have moved on an awful lot. But do you know what, the fundamental questions haven't really changed that much. And I think the same questions that I was asking myself as a young boy are being asked by young boys and girls all over the world today about where did we come from? How did we get here? You know, what is the Big Bang? How are stars formed? What about

black holes and neutron stars and supernova? All these kind of things. It's absolutely fascinating. And I think what's great is today, of course, we know much more than we did because of science and because of technology, things like the Hubble Space Telescope and more recently, the James Webb Space Telescope, which are giving us amazing photographs, amazing amounts of information. So we can look further back into the universe and we can answer things more accurately so I think the questions are the same the answers have changed slightly yeah Jane was saying that one of her favorite outings for her children was the science museum where kids and mine were the same they go straight for anything to do with space you know there's just an element of wonder especially about seeing objects that have been in space. But at the same time, I know that my kids, they can experience a virtual reality

that can tell them that they can be in space themselves. You know, the boundaries have changed a little bit, haven't they? Well, I think what virtual reality does is it allows you to immerse yourself in an environment. And I think that's brilliant. We actually use virtual reality as a training method here on Earth. We learn to fly a jetpack in virtual reality. We have to pass a jetpack exam before we can go and do a spacewalk. We practice our spacewalks in a VR environment, even on board the space station. So that's one of the most amazing things is being in virtual reality in space. So it's a great tool that enables us to experience more. And I think that what's fascinating is, you know, young children today have got access to some of these devices and they can experience these things and get closer to what it's actually like to be out in space. in space. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone.

Can we just talk about the male ego in space, if you don't mind, Tim? I mean, you seem a man who ironically is very down to earth, but I'm thinking of the likes of Bezos and Mr. Musk and our own Richard Branson. What is it about these very, very rich guys and their interest in space? Are you entirely comfortable with all that? Well, I think I would probably break those down into individual companies and perhaps with Richard Branson and Jeff Bezos, they're looking at doing something separate to Elon Musk in terms of they're looking at trips to space in low Earth orbit, suborbital. So they're not getting into orbit.

They're simply going up 100 kilometers, breaking the space boundary and back down again. It's a very commercial endeavor, and it's there for the enjoyment of people who can afford it at the moment. and it's there for the enjoyment of people who can afford it at the moment. What SpaceX are doing are very much part of the space exploration program going back to the moon and as a stepping stone to Mars. They're on the critical path. We can't do these Artemis missions, which will see humans walk on the moon again in 2025. We can't do that without SpaceX. They're building the lander system that's going to take us down to the surface of the moon and they're providing a lot of logistic support. So I think it's important to make that differentiation between those three different companies.

And I think it's fascinating that so many people have an interest in space. And of course, one of the hurdles to that is finances. And when you have wealthy people, they've decided to put their finances into space exploration. But a lot of that is not being spent in space, of course. It's jobs for the economy. It's technology that will be used down here on Earth to improve people's lives down on Earth. Some of the things we do on the space station, for example, it's all about solar panel technology. It's about carbon dioxide removal techniques, water purification systems, pharmaceutical research. Everything about the space station is about improving life for people down on Earth. Who's policing the space traffic? The policing of the space traffic is a really

interesting question because it's one that needs to improve. As we use space more and more, we need to protect it as an environment. We need to think about the debris and we need to think about the policing. The United Nations 1967 Outer Space Treaty is the specific answer to your question. We are constantly revising that and updating that, but it is an old treaty and the pace of space exploration at the moment is very rapid and the rules and the regulations are not keeping up. So we need to make sure that we continue to collaborate, work together and explore space responsibly. And talking responsibility, when you do particularly your stage shows, where I guess that there must be a huge family audience to these stage shows,

I gather that they're absolutely brilliant. But how early on in proceedings does somebody ask about climate change and about whether we can really afford to do these incredible adventures in space, which may well have an impact here on Earth? Yeah, it's a really important question. So to break those down into the two areas, firstly, climate change, we need space for climate data. More than 50%, a lot more than 50% of our climate data comes from Earth observation satellites. So, without that, we do not have a finger on the pulse of our own planet. And it's actually vital that we can see what's happening in terms of ocean salinity, in terms of biomass, in terms of carbon dioxide emissions over city centres or other gases. And what's really important is if political decisions are

made with those Earth observation assets, we can see the implications of those decisions. So, for example, the ultra low emission zone over London, we can actually see instantly the effect that that will have. And that will help our politicians to have faith in what they're doing and the science to bring down emissions and to clean up the environment. So it's important that we continue to use these assets to monitor climate change and inform us so that we can make the right decisions at the right time. at the right time. In terms of the impact that space is having on the climate, the space industry is a fraction of a percent of even the aviation industry, for example, in terms of the carbon output. When you see rockets launching to space, it's very easy to make the assumption that they're belching out a lot of carbon. Now, a lot of rocket fuel is actually hydrogen and oxygen, which is a byproduct of water.

And what you're seeing there are clouds of water vapor. That's not to say that the space industry shouldn't be working as hard as they possibly can to be sustainable and to have a low impact on the environment, which they are. But actually, we're getting a huge amount of benefit. So the second part of your question was on about the finances. How can we afford to be doing this? And again, it's important to look at the figures and the return on the investment. So in the UK, for example, we get a 10 times investment for every pound we invest into European Space Agency. We're getting 10 times back. It employs 50,000 people. It's worth about 16 and a half billion to the economy every year. It's a massive growth sector.

worth about 16.5 billion to the economy every year. It's a massive growth sector. You could understand how space could become run along exactly the same geopolitical lines as planet Earth is, which is a developed wealthy world and an undeveloped less wealthy world, not existing very well alongside each other. Well, I think that space is something that is expensive, has traditionally been expensive, and therefore countries that have budgets where they feel they can afford to participate in a space programme have been driving forward. Having said that, you know, if you look around the world, countries such as Brazil, such as India, have quite advanced space programs. And when the European Space Agency is looking at including all of its member states

of Europe, of course, everybody is reaping the benefits of what we're doing in terms of space science and space exploration. And also companies are looking at using space for the benefits of everybody around the world. Things like SpaceX Starlink satellite system is going to provide internet to rural areas, internet to those areas which do not have the infrastructure for a 5G network, for example. And we know today that if you are not connected to the internet, you are extremely disadvantaged so by providing people access to technology you are empowering them and helping that country to develop and to be at a in a better circumstance tim can you just take us um inside your head as you're waiting to launch do you consider yourself a brave person i mean i would consider brave, but I want to hear it from you.

I think I've always considered myself to have an interesting appetite to risk, I guess. I don't ever consider myself. No, that's brave, Tim. It's not an appetite for risk. I don't consider myself to be an adrenaline junkie. But then when people point out to me that I enjoy, you know, parachuting, motorbike riding, flying helicopters and flying to space, then you kind of have to perhaps rethink your position on that. But I've always kind of thought that when I do things, it's always with a balanced approach to risk. As a test pilot, you would never go off and just jump in an aircraft and take it to its limits without fully considering every eventuality. What could possibly go wrong

and have you got a plan for it? And that's how we approach spaceflight. So when we sit on top of that rocket, yes, we're aware that we're putting ourselves at risk. But we have trained so hard for every eventuality, there's just a small amount of risk left, which is the uncontrollable stuff. And you know, if it's something you can't control put it to one side yeah but i don't want to push you but what are you thinking about are you thinking about your family are you uh what are what's no head i mean you've said goodbye to your family it's very much a mental mindset on launch day there's a whole range of emotions and and yes when you're there you're behind the glass you're saying your final farewells. It's very emotional. And one of the hardest things I've ever had to do to wave goodbye to my family. But when you actually sit on top of the rocket, you make a mental mindset change. You're operationally focused. You need that clarity of thought. You need to be able to have fast decision making processes and you need to be absolutely focused

on the job in hand. So it's one of excitement and adrenaline, but I'm not thinking of my family. I'm not thinking about what could catastrophically go wrong. No, it is very much focused on the mission ahead. Your wife must be very lovely because it's bad enough, isn't it? Waving goodbye to your husband off on a golfing weekend but off to the International Space Station did he mow the lawn did he do the laundry off you go bye did you have a careers teacher at school Tim and if so I haven't seen them since well yeah my poor wife's been long suffering uh both when I was a test pilot and as an astronaut I think she was just delighted that for six months she would know exactly where I was. That's true. So there was probably less risk involved in flying to space as well than flying helicopters. But I've had so much support from

my family. I couldn't have done any of it without that. And in terms of ambition, I mean, tell me that when your head hits the pillow last thing at night, you're not agonising over anything because in a way, you've achieved a multitude of ambitions already, surely. I haven't been very, very fortunate. I've had a very exciting career, very rewarding career. I think it's important to give back as well, which is why I'm so passionate about, you know, reaching out in the education to give back as well, which is why I'm so passionate about, you know, reaching out in the education department to schools, colleges, universities, because I think we have to help to inspire our future generations. But I love traveling now

around the planet. You know, there are places I have seen only from space that I'd still like to go and visit in Patagonia, for example example, the southern ice fields, which are magnificent, past the Sahara Desert, over in Kamchatka, volcanoes erupting. So there are so many places on my bucket list now that I would like to go and see, you know, down here on Earth, having seen them from space. Tim Peake, just a wonderful and joyous opportunity to talk to the guy. I think that line about at least his wife knew where he was for six months. Do you think he might have used that before? We both laughed, I have to say. I thought it was very good.

But also you did say, you know, thank you to my family. It's a very, it's both a selfless and a selfish thing to do, isn't it? Because you know that you might lose your life. It's a dangerous activity to undertake. I suppose that's the selfless thing. But the selfish thing is you are away from your family and you might lose your life. It's a dangerous activity to undertake. I suppose that's the selfless thing. But the selfish thing is you are away from your family and they might lose you. So I thought he answered all our questions very well.

I'm intrigued to know if in future generations space becomes less exciting, unbelievable, amazing as it has been to us throughout our lives i really hope it doesn't and it worries me a little bit that if you can go up there just rich people can go up there then somehow some of the wonder does go you mean the wrong sort of people are our ambassadors in the sense that they're witnessing something that the rest of us couldn't begin to afford yeah and i don't want to hear another rich person's view of you know what space means to them because part of the joy i think as a kid why nearly all kids love space is because it belongs to you your parents haven't been there they can't tell you what it's like they

can't do the patronizing is that why kids also like dinosaurs well quite possibly but you do you feel that it's yours you're the first you're the first little person to ever look up at the moon and see a face in it. You know, it's a wondrous thing. And I don't want it, with the best one in the world, Jane, I don't want it told to me by incredibly, incredibly wealthy individual, largely men. Yeah.

I'm with you, sister. Well, I certainly am with her. I've no choice in the matter. My lady Thursday. And we should say that we won't be here tomorrow with Off Air, except we kind of will because there's a bonus ball of an edition tomorrow, which features a conversation we had with the Labour MP, Jess Phillips. Yeah, we spoke to Jess live from the podcast Day 24 conference,

which we all attended together. And we talked about how she's managed to traverse the world of politics her work and then turning her attention to that of her brilliant podcast which is called yours sincerely a fair warning on this dear listeners she may be a red politician but her language does get a little bit blue right well let let that i mean i think our listeners are relatively mature um they'll be able to handle a few Fs and Jfs, won't they? I don't know. We've warned them. We have warned them.

We've done everything in our power to ease their passage through that bonus podcast, which will be available tomorrow. And we are back, back, back on Monday for the podcast around this time, no doubt, because you can listen whenever you like, and then live on the radio at three o'clock on Times Radio. I've got an interesting challenge ahead this weekend i'm visiting my younger daughter's student house for the first time and i understand they're having a little bit of a tidy up before i get there so i'll report back next week you have been listening to off air with jane garvey and fee glover our times radio producer

is rosie cutler and the podcast executive producer is ben mitchell now you can listen to us on the free times radio app or you can download every episode from wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget that if you like what you heard and thought, hey, I want to listen to this, but live, then you can, Monday to Thursday, 3 till 5 on Times Radio. Embrace the live radio jeopardy. Thank you for listening, and hope you can join us off air very soon. Goodbye. VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iphone screen voiceover on settings so you can

navigate it just by listening books contacts calendar double tap to open breakfast with from 10 to 11 and get on with your day accessibility there's more to iphone