Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Haphazard on a conveyor belt

Episode Date: March 20, 2023

We've got a new theme tune, a new moisturising regime for Jane and a new supermarket checkout career for Fi.They're also joined by Asma Khan, UN World Food Programme Chef Advocate and the founder of the super successful restaurant Darjeeling Express.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Producer: Kate LeeTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Monday. Monday has dawned. I had quite a weekend, which is unusual for me because I, generally speaking, just spend time using my Tesco club card. But this weekend I had to step into the breach when a friend's friend dropped out of a trip to a spa so I had to go instead and I had amongst many other things my first ever facial lovely young woman did it darling your skin's looking wonderful well it's taken a while but thank you thank you for getting it out there but um she was a very very attentive and clearly very skilled um young person but at the end you know they sort of run through everything they've done for you and what you could do to help yourself the list of instructions I was left with I would literally have to give up work

just to take care of my face I know what you mean there was a lot that she suggested I could do none of which came at particularly cheap rates it has to be said but I honestly couldn't I wouldn't have the time to function in any other way

and it was a she therapist? Yes, she was absolutely lovely. Did she ask you the question, what's your current moisturising regime? That's right, my regime, yes. To which I just find it impossible to have an answer. I know, and do I have a proper exfoliating cleanser? And I just think I just use what's by the bath. Yeah.

Just must belong to one of the kids, I don't know. Sometimes I use a cold flannel and then if I've got a lot of time, I'll then use a hot flannel. And that's about it. Wow. Well, that's done you no harm. No.

I know. But you enjoyed it. I did enjoy it. Yeah. It was very unfortunate. The poor woman who couldn't be there for a very serious reason. So I hope she's all right.

But yeah, it meant that I got a lovely sort of six hours zoning out. Then I came out of the spa with my mate and realised I was locked out. So I had to call out a locksmith. So yeah, and then I just, I've been having these very weird dreams. Well, hang on a sec on the dreams, because it may have nothing to do with your visit to a spa. This instigation of new dreaming. It might be something, it might be to do with the moon or the stars

because Georgia has had some very, very funny dreams too. Hello there Finn, Jane, just a message and two parts from a long-term fan. The second part is very good too but we'll just stick with the dreams for now. I thought of sharing some more enigmatic thoughts at the beginning but I want to share an amusing dream that I

had recently where I met the two of you in a supermarket. I had a basket full of generic groceries and when I saw you both in my head, I was thinking up how to class myself as a fan. In the dream, I was preparing to say I was part of the younger listener contingent before realising that's probably not the case anymore

as a 30-something scientist. What was more damningly revealing, perhaps, was my dream's interpretation of your podcast personas. I dreamt that I headed to the checkout, where Fee was quite efficiently running my products through the till, while Jane slightly haphazardly added my items to the

conveyor belt. As I paid, nailed it, Georgia. As I paid, Fee thanked me for an email I'd sent in. I hadn't until this one. And then I tottered off, apparently having paid £63.63 for my small basket of shopping and wondering if you'd both overcharged me. That's nice, isn't it? So you're left with the sense of you've paid too much for our services, Georgia. Well, maybe our employers feel the same way. Can

I just say, though, on account of the second part it's just a really really lovely thank you for the value of mature female perspectives and Georgia says as someone who comes from quite a distant and dysfunctional family my parents lived quite an isolated life throughout my childhood before my father developed early onset dementia when I was in my late teens and my mum has had some mental health problems too. I have realised I often feel drawn to hearing from pseudo-parental or sisterly figures that I usually live without. She wanted to share her gratitude for us and the podcast and we're always just so absolutely delighted, Georgia. It is a little bit worrying that we have entered your dreams

but I'm just very glad that everything... I mean, it kind of came off all right. You bought some stuff from us. Yeah. You got the things you wanted. You paid a little bit too much, but you went off happy. Whereas in Jane's dream, Georgia, a log decomposed under your bed.

Well, there was a giant log decomposing under my bed and it cracked open really violently and a gigantic tortoise came out. That is seriously weird, isn't it? Had you seen a tortoise recently? No, I mean, I'd had a tortoise as a child. No, that's not recent. It really isn't recent, you're right.

And in this morning's dream, I was the British ambassador to Romania. I mean, it's just it's certainly there's something for everyone in my crazed technicolor dreamland at the moment well I can imagine you being the British ambassador to Romania I can't realistically I think our earlier correspondent who identified me as somebody likely to be haphazard on a conveyor belt would be a bit more accurate really than someone who thought I might have a future in the diplomatic service well that's true and actually if you lock yourself out on just your average Saturday then conveyor belt would be a bit more accurate, really, than someone who thought I might have a future in the diplomatic service.

Well, that's true. And actually, if you lock yourself out on just your average Saturday, then nobody's got a hope in hell of you finding a passport in a foreign land. No, that wouldn't be true. I would say quickly, really quickly, hello to Lucy, and thank you for your very thoughtful and kind email. Hope you're okay, and thank you very much for listening. And to another correspondent, we don't need to mention her name,

but she just says, Google my name, and you'll see what my recent dark time might have comprised of thank you very much for helping me through it uh well we have had a look to that correspondent and i'm really glad that we were able to provide some some companionship uh if nothing else and i hope you're okay as well uh christy has sent a very nice email. It's about the interview that we did with Spencer Matthews and Christy says, I've lately been listening to Anderson Cooper's podcast on grief called All There Is. Like Spencer, Anderson decided upon a media production

to deal with the grief of his mother's death but also the delayed grief he has for his father and his brother. In each episode, he interviews someone else who's been deeply touched by grief, and together they grapple and process through intimate and poignant conversations. It is quite beautiful. And the main idea that seems to permeate the show

is that grief is not something we ever shed, but something we learn to live with and can even come to appreciate. And this idea was exemplified when Spencer was saying that now when he sees a photograph of his brother, Michael, he's no longer sad or angry. But the photo makes him smile. What a lovely way to be able to process his arrested grief. And this is from Pamela, who, with reference to Everest, because we were talking about that, obviously, after the conversation with Spencer. Pam remembers meeting Sir Edmund Hillary, who came to her high school in Christchurch when she was in year 13. Pamela remembers that she had to introduce him to the audience before he

spoke, and I don't remember a word of what he said. My main memory is of how uncomfortable he looked under the gaze of 2,000 teenage girls. He would so clearly much rather have been teetering along some snowy ridge with thousand-foot drop-offs on each side. Also, I shook his hand and he was extremely tall. Thank you for that, Pamela. I didn't know he was tall, did you? I didn't. Do you think that's a help or a hindrance when you're climbing a very high mountain?

I would have thought low centre of gravity would probably... Would that not be a help? Yeah, I would have thought so too, but maybe if you literally have a long reach, you can kind of get to places other people can't. It helps to be quite strong, physically tough. Yeah, well, I tell you what, we must not go then, Jane. We're not going.

We must not go. I've made a decision. I've only recently, just now, decided not to go. And can I just do one really quick book recommendation? Oh, I've got several other read-maps I want to do. OK, Mariana just says, what are you reading at the moment? And I was harping on about this book in the office and it is in the current top ten hardback bestsellers.

So you could either maybe get it from the library or wait until it's out in paperback. But it's called In Memoriam. It's by Alice Wynne and it's a fantastic love story set in the First World War. Hearty recommend from me, Mariana. You will enjoy it. Lovely. And I think that's the email that also mentions Susie Steiner, doesn't it?

Who you tried but didn't like. Well, no, I haven't yet given it a proper go. Okay, because I just can't recommend her. If you like crime fiction, and I'm sorry, actually, our email correspondent didn't like crime fiction, but still gamely gave it a go, which I'm very grateful for. But I think if you just want the meanderings of a slightly older female mind,

I haven't read such good stuff in a very, very long time. And I also think that she, and sadly Susie, died very recently, but I think she just must have been an absolutely fantastic woman to simply have thought the things that she thought. I just loved her voice. Her internal voice was just superb. Well, it's really sad that she isn't around to write anymore. But Marianne mentions Anne Tyler.

Anything by Anne Tyler is worth reading. Shopping list? Anything. I think her most recent one I really enjoyed, Setting Covid, French Braid. Is that right? French Platte. Anyway, I really enjoyed that.

So, yeah, anything by by her Right, Jacob in Bristol on the subject of weddings this is all off the back of a beautiful email we had asking us to try and solve a quandary, big wedding or small wedding, quick wedding or wait for a wedding, and Jacob says the following, on the wedding subject

my wife and I solved a similar problem by throwing a really lovely engagement party a few months after I proposed. Nothing expensive. It was a back room of a pub with a DJ, balloons and a homemade buffet. But it was the last big family party my granddad attended and everyone remembers it fondly 10 years on. At the time, we were a bit skint and we had quite a long engagement but did eventually tie the knot with a big wedding but I still prefer the engagement party it felt a lot less pressure to be honest

not being coerced by photographers or worrying about ridiculous and impractical outfits or unnecessary seating plans and obviously it's easier for me to say as I don't have to worry about the silly aisle walking bit the thought of anyone needing to give someone away seems a bit ridiculous. My wife saw it, along with the name change, as an escape from a rather difficult family past. So that's one suggestion. Good idea. Just have a very big engagement party.

Do you want to do that one? Because it's got a lot of Irish names in it and you'll enjoy it. It's from Jenny and it's about... I got this funny message on my family WhatsApp text group. WhatsApp text group? You know what I mean? Because my mum was going to see something on St Paddy's Eve in Liverpool which turned out to be

a film called Waking Ted. Okay. She was seeing a film and it was very good apparently. It's not a new film that but they all enjoyed it. Could this have meant she was attending a wake, asked Jenny. No, she was definitely at a film. I'm sure you've had other Irish emailers suggesting this.

A wake is a traditional party in Ireland when someone has died. The deceased lies on a bed, a candle beside them lit with somebody always sitting at their side. Meanwhile, everybody else gathers in the kitchen. A lot of drinking ensues and plenty of sharing stories at their side. Meanwhile, everybody else gathers in the kitchen, a lot of drinking ensues and plenty of sharing stories about their life. The idea is that the party is so loud that perhaps the dead person might even be woken up. That is fantastic.

Jenny, I think on that basis, I think I'd like a wake. I'd like that, that's rather nice. And this one from Ellie, I think, is probably the closest we're going to get to that really important kind of first-person experience we were seeking, because our correspondent had lost her dad and her uncle was terminally ill,

and that's what started off her quandary about when she should have the wedding. So Ellie says the following. I've listened to the old and new podcasts, have often thought of writing in, but after hearing your message from the correspondent about whether she should go for the big day, I wanted to share my experience. My dad, who I was so close to, died when I was 27. I got married when I was 34.

And I was so worried about crying in a big white dress in front of 100 people. My husband, though, wanted the big party. So we compromised. Our wedding day was on a Thursday in the seaside village my mum lives in with 10 of our closest family. I had the dress. My cousin's husband, who I've known all my life, gave me away and we went for lunch in a pub, followed by an impromptu pub crawl, causing many ripples of shock to the old boys in the pub at the sight of a giddy bride ordering shots on a random Thursday afternoon. We then had a party in a marquee for 300 people,

a bar and a hog roast and lots and lots of dancing. Both days were absolutely perfect and most importantly for me, avoided the conventional moments. The first time your dad sees you in the dress, him walking you down the aisle, the father of the bride's speech and then the dance with him. And this is a very convoluted way of saying that even with time constraints you can have all the bits you actually want without following the traditional format. As someone who's very un-girly I was surprised at how much I love trying on and picking a wedding dress.

I would point out though that even this way of doing it cost us £10,000. That was in 2018. But we celebrated in some way with everyone who matters to us. And looking back on it, that is the most important bit. Hope that helps. Yeah, I'm not surprised it cost £10,000. If they had 300 people at a party, it's going to, isn't it? It is. It's a lot. Yeah, it is. It's such a lot of money.

Right, we had a really interesting guest today, Asma Khan, who who is well, she's someone, as you'll hear in her voice, she's been really affected in all the right ways by a recent trip to Lebanon because she is a World Food Programme chef advocate. Asian restaurant in Soho called Darjeeling Express. So she's very well known in the culinary world. And as I think I said during the course of the interview, if you want to know much more about her, just go onto Netflix and find her edition of, what's it called? The Chef's Table. Chef's Table. Asma Khan on The Chef's Table. And that's a really lovely look at her life and her philosophy, really, and just her love of food is really infectious. Anyway, Asma told us a little bit about what being a chef advocate for the World Food Programme entails. The position of a chef advocate is really special. And when they offered me this position, I cried a lot. I've been working with the World Food Programme for a while, maybe four, six, seven years.

And every Ramadan, I've always done their appeal, which is share the meal app, which is a great time to kind of remind people that when you yearn for that first cup of tea, or coffee when you're fasting, you can donate that price of tea and coffee, even three pounds is enough for an entire family to eat in war zones, in difficult periods, places where there's famine. So it's always been an organization I've respected a lot. It's, you know, well awarded and well recognized. And I wanted to do work with them for a while.

And I've always done bits and pieces. And one of the things we always discussed, which is years ago, was I wanted to go to Lebanon because at that time the Syrian war had started, you know, there was this huge numbers of, you know, Lebanese family having to face visitors from Syria and they already had a large number of Palestinian refugees. And yet there wasn't that kind of hatred and pushback and the kind of rhetoric that you hear about refugees. In this country. In this country and in many other countries. And the fact that the Lebanese were so gracious

and large hearted, a very, very small country to be taking in all these people. And there wasn't this kind of uprising or hatred or rhetoric. I was just interested and fascinated to be in that country. And of course, you know, now the situation is so different. And yet it's remarkable

that these large numbers of families from Syria are living so closely entwined with Lebanese people and they're okay. Do you know the kind of numbers of refugees by comparison to residents in Lebanon? Well, I think at the moment there is one in every six residents in Lebanon is a refugee. That is the statistics right now. So around close to a million and six million, six and a half million. So, I mean, I don't have the accurate figures, but I have been told that that is the ratio is one to six. And just explain, Asma, why Lebanon's economy is doing

so badly at the moment. There are multiple reasons, but I think we have to start with the Beirut blast. I mean, that was devastating. Even now, when you drive past the port area, it's just decimated. There's a silo there, which is like half standing, half about to fall. The buildings around have completely wrecked. We went deep away from the port and we saw deep cracks on walls. And then I looked at the wall and I saw bullet marks from the civil war that had happened earlier. And your heart bleeds for a country that has been ravaged by so much war and now this. And then there is, of course, allegations of corruption, of political instability, and the massive devaluation of

the Lebanese currency. So everybody earning in Lebanese currency suddenly could not afford to buy anything because the cost of everything is quadrupled. What is interesting is, you know, we've been, you know, we are going through this right now in this country, but the cost of cooking oil has gone up. The cost of cooking oil in Beirut, I was told this by several housewives I met, in Beirut, I was told this by several housewives I met, has gone up by 4000%. 4000%. So it's unaffordable. And one of the things that they really can't afford is oil and bread. I met this family, Lebanese family who told me they were very well to do. They had a good job. She was a teacher, and he worked in a business. She had to

quit because she could not afford the cost of traveling to school. Her salary didn't even cover that. Forget anything else. She said, I couldn't go because I couldn't pay. And they had to stop eating bread. And I understand this. I come from India where, you know, my father will still eat chapati. He cannot eat rice because that's what he grew up eating. But she said two loaves of bread for her family was not really sufficient. She still had to provide for more. That cost a dollar a day, and she couldn't afford that. And she was pretty much dependent on the rice, the package that she was being given by the World Food Programme. And they just learnt how to eat rice. What did you feel when you left, Asma?

A sort of sense of powerlessness, helplessness? What was it? No, I actually felt huge optimism. Because it showed me how, when families have lost everything. I met Lebanese families, but I met Syrian families. I was 10 minutes from the Syrian border. We were so far away from Beirut. We were very close to Damascus. And I spoke to families there. I spoke to young Syrian children. And I can just, I mean, one particular one really sticks with me. I went to meet a lady with three children. Her husband has serious shrapnel wounds so he's

pretty much disabled most of the money they have getting from aid agencies is going into medication and painkillers she's got a little child I mean the struggle is huge but there was this very bright eyed nine-year-old boy who was looking at me so So I called him and I said, what do you want to be when you grow up? And he's going to a school on the street, essentially. But again, you know, all the Syrian kids are getting some education. He said, I want to be an architect. And I said, you know,

why do you want to be an architect? It's unusual that a nine-year-old boy would be an architect. He said, I want to rebuild my house. It got bombed. And he pointed to the mountains. Behind there, is my grandparents' house. They're refugees in Syria. They have no house. I'm going to go back there. I'm going to

build everyone's house. And I asked him, is this what you want to do? He said, yes, I'm going to get educated. I'm going to learn how to build houses and I'm going to go back and rebuild them. I'm going to learn how to build houses and I'm going to go back and rebuild them. And this is quite incredible because when you look at a child like this and then you hear all this hatred of children who are coming here trying to save their lives, it is temporary. Their situation right now is bad. It is temporary. Their situation right now is bad. But all the children I met talked about hope, wanting to be pharmacists, doctors. They wanted to heal. They wanted to rebuild.

And they will. They will go back one day and rebuild. Their attachment and love for Syria was palpable. And especially when they've seen it being flattened and lost everything, they want to go home. And every child told me, I asked them, where are you from? They said, you walk over the mountains, my home is there. It's just wonderful. So despite having seen so much hunger, you know, driving past large areas with tents. And it's not that cold.

I believe winter was bitterly cold. But everybody smiles and everybody points to the mountains, saying my home is there. We're going to go there. And Asma, how do you square that and that very real experience that you had only a couple of weeks ago with back home in London, the teeming streets of Soho, everybody out for a good time, wanted to feed their faces, quite frankly. Are you relaxed when you re-enter your real life after a trip like that? How do you feel about it all? I think it does help to be an immigrant who left home and moved.

And I'm still, as you can hear from my accent, I'm from the East and I'm from the West. I've never, since I left 30 years ago, I don't really have a home in some ways. So everywhere, for me, home is not bricks and mortar. It's an emotion. It's how I feel at that time. And sitting in the Syrian refugee camp or with Lebanese families

or deep in the Bekaa Valley in a cooperative of women who are preserving foods and fruits, I felt as much at home as I do in my restaurant in Soho because I can relate to what is happening around me. But the biggest thing is I can relate to women because we are more similar than we realize.

We're all carrying the same cross. We're all fighting the same battles. And it is that one thing that unites us. And I think that for me, I've always been someone who automatically gets attracted, you know, and wants to speak to women. I want to find out what they're doing with their lives. I'm curious. I want to know where they are. And I see myself in them. And I think they can see themselves in me. Because we are so much of what is happening around is similar to us. You know, it doesn't matter the colour of your skin, your age, where you're from. We all are actually jumping the same

hoops. Our guest is Asma Khan. She is a chef advocate with the World Food Programme and also a renowned chef here in London, the founder of the very successful restaurant in Soho, Darjeeling Express. Asma, can we just talk a little bit about your life story? If we can condense it into nine minutes, I'd be really grateful. And if anybody wants more information, they should watch the Netflix show Chef's Table, in which you feature, because I thought that was brilliant. Thank you. Really touching. But you put women at the centre of your kitchen, don't you? And just why is that so important to you? It is so critical because when you look back from Afghanistan to Sri Lanka, it's a woman cooking in the kitchen. It's always a matriarch, the grandmother, the mother, you know, all our festivals,

It's always a matriarch, the grandmother, the mother, you know, all our festivals, weddings, the center of all the food planning is always women. And every restaurant, it is a man. In the East and in the West, and all of them learned to cook in culinary school, and they were trained in five-star hotels, especially all the Indian chefs. It's almost identical, their CV. They all went through the same route of batch cooking, mass cooking, cooking in five-star hotels, in stainless steel empires.

But the real custodians of food, of our culinary traditions, which is not just only South Asia, across the world, women have been, not the people who feed, the ones who nourish. Women have been, not the people who feed, the ones who nourish. Women have always been the center of feeding, healing, looking after, sometimes feeding three generations on the same table, and making it look so effortless. And my problem, I think, I think this is a problem with all females like me who are trying to set up restaurants, is because women have always made it look effortless.

No one wants to pay us for our roti. Because our food, everyone says my mother's food is the best, my grandmother's food is the best. So really my story, and yes, the chef's table does capture that, is about trying to explain why it is so important. I am at the moment, in the kind of restaurant I am, is about trying to explain why it is so important. I am at the moment, in the kind of restaurant I am, the only all-female Indian restaurant in the world. In the world?

You don't even have one in India. And what would happen if a man did come and cook in the kitchen? We do have occasionally people coming and helping us. I mean, if they can cook intuitively without needing instructions, if they just follow by the eye or applause. Yes. No, I don't know. I don't know whether it's a reaction to this feminine energy,

you know, that is always in house, in so many households because mothers and grandmothers cook. That's so many male chefs have made cooking into a combat sport. It looks like something from Mortal Kombat. And this testosterone-driven, extremely toxic, masculine empire of restaurants that they're running.

Why? It's very true. It's a very true part to me. Does it make the food taste better if you shout while you're making it? I don't understand why they do this. What's your relevance of being a second daughter as well? I was reminded again why it is not just my culture, but many cultures.

I met a very, very impoverished farmer, a female who was looking after her entire family and she was tilling the family land. And she very simply said to me, in a culture where every girl is married off, that they never married me off. I asked her, are you a second daughter? She said, yes.

And this whole idea that we need to justify our place in that household, somehow you will always find, and I am absolutely convinced that in these cultures where the boy is the preferred child, and there are many of this, most agrarian cultures are like this. Look, you know, even Irish families, you know, where it was an agrarian culture and the farm and the home was inherited by a boy, having daughters was a disaster if you didn't have a son. So Mexico, Colombia, all of these places where it was to do with land and farm. Girls have never been the chosen child for families. And then, of course, I think if you're

a second daughter, there is a disappointment. And did you feel that all of your life? I didn't feel it from my parents. My mother's initial reaction, I think, was more because she let down her own mother, who had had five daughters. My mother is one of five daughters. My mother, then really, she never celebrated my brother's birth. So, you know, it was, then I knew that I was equal, that, you know, my brother and I were equal and our whole lives were treated equally. But I felt it from others. And it didn't help. I think it was complicated by the fact that I was the second daughter, but I was the ugly, ugly one.

And so everyone would comment on my dark skin, how fat I was, that no one would marry me, that I shouldn't be playing cricket in the sun. And this is extended family, you know, distant relatives. That is a double whammy because you can sense the fact that being a girl has been a problem. Then being the ugly, you know, girl, the fat girl, and my sister, who who was incredibly beautiful she still looks 10 years younger than me and who was hugely supportive this is a lesson you learn when i was only three years old i remember someone telling me how how ugly i was and she was worried about my future my sister who was the princess of the family tall slim, slim, fair, beautiful, with the most amazing hair. She walked behind me, she held my hand, she whispered my ears, you're going to grow up to be the warrior princess.

This is what women can do for women. My young sister, only four and a half, intuitively understood that by holding my hand and telling me that I was going to be, she named this warrior princess, you know, and it changed my life. And has she just come back from being a world food ambassador in the Lebanon? Is she on Times Radio this afternoon? The answer to those questions is no. I mean, you have done a remarkable thing with your life. You've also set up a charity, haven't you, for other second daughters to celebrate their existence. Yes, and I think just think that simple thing

because you can't interfere in family lives because then you're not welcome. I just want the birth of a girl to be celebrated because when I was being bullied and pushed around by a lot of boys when we used to be playing cricket, they used to tell me, oh, nobody loves you, nobody wants you. I was tongue-tied. I could not say anything.

I want another girl, second daughter, not to have to go through this. She can say, no, you celebrated. There were fireworks and you ate sweets. The whole village ate sweets when I was born. It is that, being able to say that. I want to give them that first weapon to be able to fight back and pull themselves out of this darkness that you are not valued, that you're not wanted. And understand that far away there's a kitchen in Soho where the women are all second daughters.

And we care and we want you to know you can be us. You can be bigger than us. You can be anything you want to be. And it's a small thing. She will always know when her birth was celebrated and who made that possible. That's all I want to do. I may never see her, but I want her to know that she's valued. There is a fantastic scene in Chef's Table where you're making a biryani in a huge container. I wanted to dive into my laptop and start eating because there are just layers of the spuds go in there.

And then there's the rice on top of that and all the spices. And I think it was a lamb biryani that just looked exquisite now i mean that might well be my last supper if i were to have one well obviously i will at one point uh what would what would yours be i actually think it would be the biryani would it yes because the biryani is not it's it's a beautiful dish but it's also a huge pot of rice. It's when the clan gets together. It's when the families get together. It was a time when I got together with my cousin's sisters and my sister,

who has absolutely been my strength my whole life. And we used to all get together. Biryani meant the clan had arrived. It was a time for women to get together and be free. And it was winter, it was the cook in the outdoors on fire. And it's that association of celebration of feminine energy. This is what the biryani is for me. That was Asma Khan, World Food Programme chef, advocate, and the founder of the really successful and brilliant Darjeeling Express in Soho. She did say she'd like to feed us there, didn't she?

Oh, and I'd love to go. So I did go to her pop-up. I think you've been to her pop-up as well. I'm sure I've been to, definitely. I've been to the one in Kingley Court. Yeah, which is in just up Carnaby Street. I've got sad memories of Kingley Court because where I had my purse nicked in the summer.

Okay, well, anyway, back to Asma Khan. But it wasn't at Darjeeling Express. No, and her food is, I mean, it is sensational. Yeah, it's amazing. You know, maybe it's hard to convey what's different about it, but it's, I don't know, it does make you feel, it's not show-offy, that's what it is. It's not ta-da kind of food.

It is different, tasty, not too spicy. i think it's just really interesting that we have learned to accept that chefs are male and cooks are female and we know that the main cooking in most homes let's be honest is done largely by women isn't it throughout all over the world yeah but also it's passed down isn't it through female generations the world. But also it's passed down isn't it? Through female generations. The recipes, the way you cook, all of that. That is so much more a maternal line that's followed

than a paternal line. So all hail to her for her all-female kitchen. Which isn't to say there aren't some fabulous male cooks. Beautifully balanced. Darling, beautifully balanced. I just want to read this one from Helen and then we may have to very, very sadly

close the door on the oboe anecdotes. Say something. No comment. I listened to your podcast the other day and was excited to tell my husband about feed playing the oboe. He learned as an adult, initially self-taught, but latterly he has had lessons. He subscribes to the British Double Read Society,

whose magazine usually features some over 60 or maybe 70-year-old male oboe player on the cover. However, in the last few years, they've tried to give the magazine a more contemporary look with two teenagers on the front of one issue and another featuring a flowing-haired young man with his oboe, or maybe it was a bassoon, on a bicycle. Wow.

That really is challenging all the stereotypes, isn't it? Good audition to help continue the trend. Well, do you know what? Our shared agent, she was wanting a magazine cover because when you go to their offices, lots of their clients have got magazine covers, haven't they? Plastered up all over the wall. And I think that might be my contribution to her office space

is to be on the front of British Double Read Monthly. I can't believe that magazine exists. I want to say again hello to Tanya from Kentucky, who's still in the UK, but she's going to catch you. She says you can't listen to us, weirdly, because she's in the UK. Come on, Tanya, try harder. Anyway, I just wanted you both to know your show has made me so comfortable in London, I'm like a local.

Right now I'm in the CAF at M&S, I'm having shortbread. And I knew to go to Boots for sinus medication and Sainsbury's for food. Your chatter about your daily lives has made this tourist feel right at home, so thank you very much, and if you ever find yourself in Kentucky, I will return the favour. That's good, isn't it? We've helped someone. It's very good. Yep, it is very good.

I was just trying to think, though, would you really not know to go into Boots? Well, hang on, a shop called Boots doesn't exactly shout sinus medication, does it? But it's got that international great big green cross flashing outside it. Is that an international symbol? It is. A pharmacy's the world over. Is it really the world over? Yes, it is. Yeah.

Are you sure? I am sure. Okay. Well, I certainly look for them. But I only go as far as France. And as we know, they do chemists like no other nation on earth. Oh, la la. Their chemists are so sexy, aren't they? I tell you what, you end up with a moisturising regime if you go into a French pharmacy, don't you? Every sort of lubricant and every possible way of cleaning it,

flushing out your system. That's a little bit disturbing. Let's end there, kids. If you're still listening. Have a very good evening. Good luck with your ablutions and we'll see you tomorrow. Yes, and our guest tomorrow is going to talk about

how to communicate with teenagers. Yes, it's a bit too late for you to learn that, but I'm going to hang off her every word. Stella O'Malley. I might be able to sort of go retrospectively hard into them after I've heard the advice. Yeah, we'll just rewind and say, come on, let's go back to

2014 when I became the mother of a teenager and try again. Okay, good luck with that. We'll speak to you tomorrow. Goodbye. you did it elite listener status for you for getting through another half hour or so of our whimsical ramblings otherwise known as the hugely successful podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. We missed the modesty class. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler, the podcast executive producer. It's a man, it's Henry Tribe. Yeah, he's an executive. Now, if you want even more, and let's face it, who wouldn't, then stick Times Radio on at three o'clock Monday until

Thursday every week, and you can hear our take on the big news stories of the day, as well as a genuinely interesting mix of brilliant and entertaining guests on all sorts of subjects. Thank you for bearing with us. And we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon.