Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Happy carrot, legs akimbo (with Gyles Brandreth)

Episode Date: October 28, 2024

Happy Monday! Today, Fi considers a new Garvey-Glover enterprise making their own soft furnishings, but Jane has doubts...They are joined by writer and broadcaster Gyles Brandreth on his new book Prose & Cons. Our next book club pick has been announced! 'The Trouble with Goats and Sheep' by Joanna Cannon.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiAssistant Producer: Hannah Quinn Podcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm going to go for a little bit of a hunt, I think, on the eBay. Yeah, see if I can track down... I'd like to see you in an air tech shot. We'll see, but okay. Well, not really. Um... Peel on pack. This is me winning a Universal theme park vacation. Then again in app. And me in a new Chevrolet Equinox RS.

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See rules in app. This episode of Off Air with Jane and Fee is sponsored by Norwegian Cruise Line. Have you ever thought of taking a cruise? Well, it's crossed my mind. Tell me a bit more about it. Well, with Norwegian Cruise Line, you can travel to iconic locations across Northern Europe, the Mediterranean and the Greek Isles, unpacking only once and exploring multiple European destinations in one holiday. They offer exclusive go-local shore excursions as well as an immersive programme of on-board experiences. I can't lie, I'm intrigued by up to 21 dining options on a single ship.

Well Jane, their fleet has so many unique bars, lounges and restaurants. They also have fantastic entertainment, shows, facilities on board. You wouldn't be short of things to do. Plan ahead to discover your dream Europe 2025 cruise. It's certainly one way to beat the winter blues. Experience more at sea with Norwegian Cruise Life. For more information call 0333 222 6513. Contact your travel agent or visit ncl.com. How was your weekend? The clocks, the clocks. Oh my goodness the clocks. Yeah. So it's funny, isn't it, because you must have this as well. I've got a fair few analog clocks in the house, but everything else automatically changes. And I'm finding that more difficult to deal with

than when nothing changed. And some years I genuinely forgot that there was a clock change. And because I was usually working weekends, there were so many years where I'd turned up at the wrong time. But at the right place? At the right place. Oh well that's good. Yeah so now I got a bit thrown by that this weekend. I jumped out of my skin wandering downstairs to realize no that's a clock with a battery so that just hasn't updated itself. There's something you have to do yourself. I know.

That's outrageous isn't it? And I was just standing in front of the control panel in the airing cupboard yesterday, just jabbing at it. Oh my gosh. Trying to change the clock. Well, you know, I just leave it. Yeah, well do you? Yeah.

But the, oh you see, I have left it in days gone by. I, after pointless, although as it turned out, rather productive pointless prodding, it changed. Did you get there? And back on the right time. It's now the real time, isn't it? Because the other time that was fake time, but now it really is. Yes, this is our true time. This is true time. So I just leave the non-true heating time on the basis that for quite a lot of that

side of the year we don't really need the heating anyway. Oh, that's a good point. Yeah, so, but it does mean that the house is colder for another hour. Yeah. But we're lucky this year because we haven't needed the heating very much at all. No, you just have to throw a jumper on. It's not been cold at all in the south of England. Yes, that's very true because we've had storms across the north. I too went to see The Apprentice at the weekend, Jane.

The film that you had seen last week. I couldn't recommend it highly enough. I thought it was one of the best plonk yourself down in a cinema, lose yourself in a story films I've seen in a long time and also because it's just got that added layer of menace about it where you really are gripped to every scene because Sebastian Sand is that the lead-in? He's playing Donald Trump so effectively, he's got the mouth movements and stuff, but I thought he was brilliant because he hasn't turned it into a caricature, which it would be easy to do, and all of those nuances about the man's vulnerability and weakness,

which is why he is how he is, are, I I thought really, really brilliantly done. Really brilliantly done. He's a great actor because actually, and I'm sometimes quite rude about thespians, and I just need to... Yes, I am. I need to own the fact that sometimes they are quite brilliant and transporting, as indeed he is in that performance, he almost at times makes you feel sorry for Donald Trump.

Totally. So it's that nuance that they nail. They nail it. Because it's just too easy they nail. They nail it. Because it's just too easy to just see him as a bogeyman and just, you know, spoilt rich kid who didn't know what he was doing and still doesn't. But actually the kind of reasons behind why he is how he is are important to know. And I didn't know the story of Roy Cohen either and for a homophobic gay anti-semitic Jewish lawyer to have been so influential I think explains quite a lot about a man who really

doesn't have a moral compass. I think we both agree that the accent of Donald Trump's mother who is from Scotland is weird, it's a little variable and there were times when it suggested the accent that she might have spent quite a bit of time in Prague or Bratislava or indeed a place that wasn't a Scottish island. Any of the vacchias. But listen, it'll do because it was kind of a bit foreign and the Americans are not

experts on Scottish accents. Any more than I am, I need to make clear. Yeah, I'm not going to enter into a conversation about accents. No, you're banned from accents this week. Aww, that's a shame. I'm only here for a couple of days this week, so I've got a little bit of time off it. It's the half term in our household. You're going to have to carry the budget coverage all on your own. Well there's a beautiful photograph in the Times newspaper today. I'm standing tall, wedged between Messrs Neil and Pinar.

Well it is a... I mean that's a hell of an experience isn't it? Anyway there I am, my mother's seen it. It's a peerless powerhouse sandwich, Jane. It certainly is. That's what it is. There's quite an odd look on Andrew Neil's face in that photograph and I honestly couldn't place it because when one of our producers popped that up on the group chat, it was one of those messages that was just begging for responses. It was begging for responses. I just had to look at Andrew Neil's face for quite a long time and I thought I actually don't know the word for that.

Well I'm not, Fiona I'm not going there. It's not happening. I'm not going to say anything. Jane Susan Garvey will be doing just the hour and a half on Budget Day and I think that's plenty of load for you. Yeah, what we're going with, you'll be glad to know, is no question too stupid and boy will I be asking some stupid questions between 2.30 and 4 o'clock on Times Radio. Mainly about your own situation. Mainly about my pension. So if you're interested in my pension, be sure to be listening. There's a funny quote today from the Prime Minister. He wants us to, what is it, confront the harsh,

confront the brutal light of... Oh no, we've got to embrace the light. Oh have we? Okay, I don't know. Embrace the light of harsh reality. Okay, well something like that anyway. Doesn't sound much fun, does it? It doesn't, but I'm really, really hoping that they're doing an awful lot of doom-laden prophecy so that they can pull some little bright bunnies out of their hat. I'm the only one who's cleaning up this positive. You're away, you don't need to bloody worry about it.

I won't be away. I'll be sitting at home shorting the markets. Now, this one comes in from Marie and I've got to apologize Marie, because I read out your addendum, I've slipped into Latin there, email without having read your original email because it was just quite simply on the page behind. But this is about Airtex shirts. I couldn't believe it when you mentioned Airtex. Not only did we used to make and sell Airtex shirts, it made front page news of the paper we used to produce The Evening Star. I do recall we sent you, Fee, a pale blue one when you worked for the other side, because you did mention many years ago your liking for the cellular

cotton gym top. Well at least I'm consistent. I wonder did you ever receive it? I don't think I did. Oh where is that now? I just would have hung on to that. Yeah. But quite often back at the other place. Oh things weren't missing didn't they?

Well they did and also all of your mail was opened wasn't it by the production team in case it contained something sinister. Which is a terrible thing to do because in the awful period where in America they were sending, what was the white powder that was being sent through the post to well-known people? Oh, anthrax. Was it anthrax? Yeah. Was it? Yeah, I think, Hannah's nodding but I think we're right there. So there was actually a memo that went round. It can't be anthrax. Yes it was, it's the ultimate poison isn't it? Okay.

One of the ultimate poisons. But a memo went round saying, you know, in case something like this is sent to a presenter, could the more junior members of the production team open their mail? Gosh it's brutal isn't it? Obviously terrible. Anyway, so Marie, the long and the short of it is no. Marie says, I could bore you rigid with the story of the demise of this wonderful fabric, but in a nutshell, when True Text moved over to using polyester, Air Text literally died to death and we bought the remaining stocks from a mill in Clitherow.

Pale blue and white were the most popular colours. It finally ran out a few years ago, hence the front page news. Keeping it light, love the show. Well, Marie, that is absolutely fantastic. And I'm really, really sorry that the pale blue air text didn't quite get to its desired destination. But I'm going to go for a little bit of a hunt, I think, on the eBay.

Yeah. See if I can track down some air text shots. I'd like to see you in an air text shot. So we'll see. OK. Well, not really. Trust me, it's not, yes, that's the fantasy I always turn to. This is from Melanie.

Fee's mention of ghoulies the other day made me prick my ears up. No pun intended, as I haven't heard that phrase in many a year. It was my dad's go-to word when I was a child, i.e. he deserves a swift kick in the ghoulies, or you've made a right ghoulies of that. He was quite blunt. At junior school back in the 60s, I recall the eyes of our very stern dinner lady, Mrs Meanwell. She definitely didn't. Her eyes nearly popped out of her head when I refused to eat my dry currant pudding, saying that the cook had made a complete ghoulish of it and it just wouldn't go down. My mother was subsequently summoned to school to discuss my language. It's a word that

is no longer in the modern lexicon and it's all the poorer because I think it's such a satisfying descriptor. I would like to suggest a campaign to restore it to everyday usage, though perhaps not in the under 11s. PS says Melody, as proof of the almost total disappearance of goodies, it gets a red line under it when typing and auto-corrects to... goodies? Googles. Googles. Which is depressing in itself, isn't it? Yeah, I know. That tells

you a lot about big tech and how powerless we are to do anything about its just continued dominance. Melanie is in Somerset, lovely part of the world. And may you hold your ghoulies tight, keep using the word like Fee does. Let's bring it back. Let's start a relatively small scale campaign to bring the word ghoules back to prominence. Okay, let's do that. What's our slogan? Bring ghoules back. Bring ghoules back. Bring ghoules back. Yeah. Okay. Not the gulag. Ghoules. Totally different. Have you got a criminal conviction? Yes. Have you? No. Oh my god, criminal conviction. No, because the speeding awareness courses don't count. Anyway, you're as bad as me and it's not funny. I'm worse, it's not funny at all.

While filling in a form for an American Esther, my husband mistakenly, yes mistakenly says Caroline, said yes to the question about having a terrorist conviction. Unable to go back and change it. It's quite easily done I gather. I just think it's just so, every time I see it on the form I just think what is the likelihood that somebody says yes. That's me. Unable to go back and change it, we then had to make the 200 mile journey to the American

Embassy in London to apply in person and persuade them I was innocent. I must say they couldn't have been nicer. I should think they get quite a few people turning up. And also, I mean, it's a very tricky one. We shouldn't laugh at it at all because people with that nefarious horrible aim in life to harm other people are not amusing. But, you know, there is a comedy skit to be done in the type of person who then has to turn up at the American Embassy and convince an official that they're not a terrorist. I'm very interested in what the subsequent questions are in order to rectify the situation. And should you be of a criminal bent? You're not going to turn up to that interview.

You're not going to turn up to the interview and you're probably not going to tick, that's me, yes absolutely, to that box. Exactly, that's the point. Now we were mentioning Sally Rooney and the fact that that is the book. If you see anybody reading a book on the public transport, the Tube in London in particular, because I was talking about my commute Monday to Thursday to come into Times Radio to do the live radio show on Times Radio. Two till four in the afternoon, a variety of guests covering all the news.

Listening figures going up, thank you very much. That sounded good, didn't it? It did, yeah. It was just dropped in. It also, Tell Your Friends. It wasn't scripted. Tell Your friends. I was talking about, for God's sake, tell your friends. Please tell your friends.

Anyway, I was talking about, I'm seeing people, young women in particular, reading Sally Rooney's new novel, Intermezzo, and it's not even in paperback. So these are people reading hardback copies. Which is a commitment on public transport. It is, and I'm always impressed. Jackie says, I'm 64 and retired. I'm now wondering whether or not I'm too old for Sally Rooney. I have read all of her novels. I love normal people. It took me back to my younger self when relationships with men seemed full of possibilities. With a failed marriage behind me and I thought

that man was my soulmate and a succession of poor choices of men since time began, I now live happily with my Australian labradoodle Pasha. However, Pashka is a bit poorly at the moment recovering from a dislocated hip replaced three and a half years ago, having had an emergency femoral head and neck incision. Goodness me, maybe my choice of dog is as bad as my choice of men. No. But Jackie says I wouldn't change her for the world. Keeping young and carrying on. Good for you. Why would you be too old for Sally Rooney? Well that's what kind of what you were saying. Yeah, yeah. I think just the problems that Sally Rooney's, what's the word I'm searching for? Her community. Her community. The people she writes about by and large are in their 30s?

They're in their 20s extending to their 30s and so their problems are just different. You know, she's not writing usually about the problems of bringing up children, difficult teens, you know, marriages failing 20 years down the line, that kind of stuff, your bones aching and what have you. It is that really extraordinarily high velocity emotional fervour of your 20s. That's what's so gripping. Long before you start to worry about, you know, the timer of your central heating. Yes, or whether or not your ICER is going to perform in time or whether or not, you know, you'll meet a lover who can perform in time.

Or at all. It's all about the timer. It's before she is writing before the timer goes on Jane. Harriet is also entering this conversation. I watch normal people and I tried to read conversations with friends but I found them both really quite boring and I just couldn't go on. When I voiced this opinion it didn't go down too well with some of my friends so I was relieved to hear that Fee wasn't actually that bothered by it either. I felt the hype around the books was too much. That's all. I feel I've got a dirty secret out and I've also feel a bit vindicated. So thank you Fee. Here we are.

Well that's very kind. Do you know what? It's lovely when you hear somebody say out loud something that you just haven't been, you know, felt bold enough to say, you know, because the overwhelming opinion has been completely different. Well the Emperor's New Clothes thing, I think it's still quite powerful, isn't it? Very. And actually on that subject, there's been so much pre-publicity and so many good reviews for Rivals, the Jilly Cooper show. Good points, yep.

And I have seen one negative review, but that was all. So I've seen two episodes now, I've, on your advice. I've splashed out £4.99 fee. So if you wouldn't mind perhaps passing a fiver to me to get the ad version of Disney Plus. I'm now two episodes in and yes, some of it is funny, but I find some of it a bit cruel. A bit uncomfortable. And a bit uncomfortable. But I think Jilly Cooper's books, because they're attempting to lance the boil of pomposity and class, they are quite uncomfortable books sometimes.

I'll tell you what I haven't seen coming, because I'm only on episode three. Eve has warned me that there's something rather sinister in episode five. Somebody else has said, oh, it's not quite as lovely and shiny as you think it's going to be. And I genuinely can't remember what happened in the book. I did read it but it was a very, very, very long time ago and I was a different woman then I think. I agree. I have read the book. I didn't really remember it and it's that the idea that it's all tally ho ho ho is not quite true, is it?

So it might not be as safer space as I'm imagining that it was from the opening. I'm glad you said because I was wondering whether I'd just become such an old fart that I've almost, I don't know. I want to love it, but it's not all cheerful. It's not, but I'll tell you what it does do though. I think it's so far, I think it really, it does, it's shining quite a good light on prejudice isn't it in all its various forms and it's a little bit dot to dot paint by numbers as well because there's some really nasty kind of racism going on because Cameron is a very successful young black woman who's come in from New York, there's the gay guy who can't, he can't, he wants to be open about his relationship, but there's a younger

gay guy he's fallen in love with who can't be as open because it might affect his political career. He's been told you've got to get married and have kids. And actually, I sometimes think you can be a bit intellectual about that blunt prejudice now in certain circles and sometimes it's quite good to see it just absolutely blatantly how it was because for an awful lot of people it is still how it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we haven't moved on that much. So I think those elements are quite uncomfortable and not all tally-ho. I mean the class stuff, the ridiculing of people who, you know, don't

know which fork to use at the dinner table and stuff like that, I mean the class stuff, the ridiculing of people who, you know, don't know which fork to use at the dinner table and stuff like that. I mean that still goes on doesn't it? And I think it's doing quite a good job poking fun at that. But that also feels at times nasty, but you're right. I mean, let's, we can't kid ourselves, it does still go on. Sorry, briefly back to Intermezzo. This is from another emailer, Sharon, who says, I'm 64 and I was seduced by the publicity blurb around Sally's new novel, so I coughed up a hefty sum at WH Smith Gatwick. That's a popular airport in the south of England. Well, it's a London airport, but it's not in London.

It's one of the great cons. If you are abroad and you find your flight winds up in Gatwick. Or London South End.. No it's not. It's near London in the sense that Glasgow's quite near London if you're in Ontario. Anyway, coughed up at Gatwick and settled down on my flight to Porto, which by the way was delayed for two hours due to fog. Oh dear. So actually Sharon found herself with four hours to kill. Where to start? I just found it depressing. Impossible to relate to the tortured cast of protagonists, this is what you were saying. None of them happy, all battling internal demons and unhappy life circumstances. An OMG the sex scenes most written from the female perspective too too much information for somebody on HRT

I don't know what that's got to do with it really. Anyway wait until it's out on Kindle and judge for yourself not aimed at our demographic keep up the banter Sharon. Thank you Sharon. Yeah so does HRT make you more or less likely to enjoy reading about sex? I don't know. I don't know what Sharon means really by that. Right, I'm going to now ask, and we welcome to the podcast, the email from Sophie Henderson. Sophie, I'm going to ask Jane to use her powers of radio description here. Oh no, you know I can't do it.

With a picture that is entitled, Legs of Kimber. Oh no, you know I can't do this. With a picture that is entitled, legs akimbo. Well, this is going to have to go on Instagram. And I'm going to say that we might keep it for our Insta account if the American election delivers not quite the result many of us are hoping for. And if you need a go-to image that's just going to keep you smiling every time you look at it. Trust me. It is Sophie's legs are Kimbo Happy Carrot. It's legs are Kimbo Happy Carrot. I can't do better. But as orange may or may not be the colour, we're definitely gonna have to put that out. We are, you're right. It's a little,

it's a vegetable of joy moment that one Sophie. Thank you very much indeed for sending it in. Oh dear me. We are going to need a little bit of help aren't we as the weeks turn into months turn into years. I don't know there's a very funny account by Will Pavia on the Times website of Donald Trump's Madison Square Garden event which just I know, I know, just a heavy sight. I did see Michelle Obama and her fantastically powerful rhetoric over the weekend. I mean, I know she doesn't want to run. I know she's not interested. You wish she would. She really, absolutely. She's just one of the best speakers.

And I just challenge anyone, even if you don't agree with the words she's saying, not to acknowledge that she is just one of those people who can captivate a crowd and hold them in the palm of her hand. It's just an extraordinary gift. And the gist of what she was saying over the weekend, in case anybody missed it, was basically why is Kamala Harris being pushed up against a wall and challenged over every tiny thing that she says about policy and about important things about the economy about the future direction of immigration policy in America whereas the other guy is just dancing around making innuendos about people's penis size contributing nothing to the debate, you know, the way

that the individuals in this presidential race are being treated is so very different and just needs to be called into question all the time and she's right. She is right and actually on the, it's not entirely unconnected, but there was a really fantastic, I wanted to mention it last week and I'd be honest I just totally forgot, a piece from Thursday's I by Kate Maltby who writes quite a lot about female experience and some of the challenges that women and girls continue to face in the world and she's written a column about Giselle Pelico and about her fantastically powerful contribution last week where she said

basically the shame is not ours, we are the victims, the shame is theirs, the perpetrators of sexual violence who need to be centre stage and Kate has written a column about this and she says male writers and male readers need to be doing this work too, we're only at the beginning of understanding what's happened here and what is happening across the world when groups of men get together and cross the line from shared fantasy to the collective abuse of women. And I did look over the weekend to see if any male columnist had written about Giselle Pellicoe and I could be wrong, but I didn't see any columns by men about her. And Kate's right because this is something we've said before, there's no point in us saying all this, it's got to be a much more open conversation involving men as well.

So we've been saying it on stages and in books for years Jane. And people like Kate have written very powerfully about it for a long time too. We spend our working time trying to put out a message as Kate's doing there in a column and we then go and live the rest of our lives digesting the messages that we've spent our working time talking about and it just seems bizarre that men don't see it as their business when presumably exactly the same conversation or experience from the other side is floating around in their home life and they're not choosing to bring it into their working life and sit on stages talking about it, writing books about it or

you know devoting radio programmes to it. It is bizarre and you're right, it's the most unhelpful thing to do just to be a bystander to women's problems when you know that the conversation is easier to have if it's man on man, not woman on man. Men just think we're making noise and just shrieking in the corner. Yeah. Well, I don't know if anybody wants to pitch in. I know no one listening to this is going to disagree with this, I don't think here. It's just frustrating that it is often, usually, most of the time, left to women in positions like our own where we have a gob, let's be honest, and we can use it to female columnists, to female politicians, and it's not a problem we can solve. It just

isn't. So let us know what you think about that. I just wanted to also mention, I like this from Rachel who just says, I wanted to say thank you for this week. There have been two laugh out loud moments. Oh, well, we're doing well then aren't we? That's not bad. Thank you, Rachel. And actually what I really wanted to mention was I'm interested in what Rachel does for a living because she is an upholsterer. And I find that whole

craft absolutely fascinating. The way people can transform, you know, one sort of chair into a much nicer looking chair or bit of furniture. I just think it must be an incredibly satisfying thing to do. So Rachel, tell us more about it. Well, I think you should head down the upholstering pathway and I'm going to head down the quilting pathway and we'll meet at the end with our soft furnishings on display. It's not a euphemism. No, and it never will be. This one comes in from Ellen who's coming to see our live show at the Barbican, looking

forward to that very much. When would that be, Jane? February the 4th. It is, yes, Tuesday, February the 4th. Tuesday, it's a big night that, isn't it? It's a very big night, Tuesday night. Everybody wants to go out on a Tuesday night in February. You'll be absolutely thrilled when it comes around. You'll wake up that morning and I guarantee you think oh shit.

But come along because we'll try and be cheerful. So Ellen is the person who organises, she's the event coordinator for the Festival of Quilts that we've been talking about, the huge great big thing at the NEC. And she would happily welcome us for free. So we could pop along. For free you say? Yes, for free. So we could pop along and then we can talk more about the Festival of Quilts. We also have an event called the Knitting and Stitching Show which will be in both Belfast

and Harrogate next month. And she's asking for a tote bag. There's only one tote left and we don't know what to do with it. So we'll take inquiries, but we don't want to start a fight. But Ellen, thank you very much indeed for that. I am definitely definitely going to look into quilting. I did do a couple of beginners quilting lessons when I went to live in New York and it didn't, I was fascinated by it but I didn't have a sewing machine at the time and it was right over the other side of Manhattan so

I didn't feel that I wanted to go every evening, you know, to do my top stitching over there so I slightly retired from those professional proceedings and I made a big patchwork kind of thing which my mum has got in her spare room, I have to say, in her spare room at home. But it's so not quilting, it's definitely just patchwork. So I am going to, over the next 12 months, embrace the quilting and I think you should embrace the upholstery. Oh. You like a bit of upcycling at the weekends? I do like, I like, yes, I like a little bit of painting, some, you know, some unpromising wood. Yeah, so go for it.

I don't think I'm crafty enough. I don't think I'm adept at it. I can't pick up those sorts of skills. Of course you can. Well I think, I don't know. And also I think with upholstery you get to use a staple gun and all kinds of things. Oh do? Oh, okay. Right. Yeah. Oh, I might get some overalls and buy a staple gun. Well there you go, you're off.

Deleth's cockapoo, cavapoo, do apologise, cavapoo has lost her head in our tote bag. She's very sweet. This, she, Deleth is obviously the proud owner of Jane and Fee Tote and Fudge is just exploring it there by wedging her head in the bag. No harm can come to Fudge there. Thank you very much for the image. Fudge is one of my not very favourite snacks. I would never choose fudge. Would you not? Sorry to say it. The fudge community are going to be upset, but no Hannah's shaking her head. Don't like fudge. Yeah, the finger of fudge is just enough to

give your kids a treat. That was just such an unfortunate little ditty, wasn't it? Yes, and we did some. Because it was just adulterated every which way. Let's leave it there. Yeah please God. This episode of Off Air is sponsored by the National Art Pass. Now Jane there's nothing I like better than a trip to a gallery or a museum on a rainy afternoon. And let's be honest we get quite a lot of those in the UK don't we? I do feel that looking at a bit of art is more than just kind of looking at a bit of art if you know what I mean. I think it can really stay with you long after the visit, kind of feeds the soul. Yeah, you're onto something there because scientific research suggests that regularly

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or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider Flu-Celvax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at FluCelvax.ca. 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at FluCellVax.ca. You'll never guess who's talking in our studio. Giles Brandreth is here. Hello, Giles. I'm so happy to be here. Well, it's lovely. This is one of my favorite rooms in all England. I don't believe you for a second. But it is true.

I think you are most amazing double actor. Yeah, all right. I love your show. Yes. I'm not surprised. The ratings rewarded you so well last week. Yeah, thank right. I love your show. I'm not surprised the ratings rewarded you so well last week. Congratulations. Thank you. You are the Rajahs of Rachel. Can I just ask a question? How are you Giles? I'm in very happy form. I'm wearing my jumper that says I'm the Chancellor of the University of Chester. Yes. Because I thought, Times Radio, you need a Chancellor in the studio to say, oh we've got an exclusive with the Chancellor, and it's Giles, and he's the Chancellor of the rest of the Chester.

Can we embrace your fiscal harsh reality, please, Giles, because we don't want to embrace the nation's. Nobody does. Nobody does. But it's interesting to me how much speculation there is and how much leaking there is. When I was a very little boy in the 1950s, Running up to the budget, there was no questions asked. Well, who was your first chancellor? That I was aware of would be Rab Butler, R.A. Butler.

Then Harold McMillan, with whom I once sat down to discuss the budget, and he fell asleep. I had 20 minutes with him, he slept throughout it. When I was an MP and I was working at the Treasury… Just for young listeners, Giles was a Conservative MP. Carry on Giles. Until the people spoke. They hollered.

In no uncertain terms, you're dead right. I'm still bearing the scars. And Norman Lamont and Kenneth Clark were the Chancellors then. But the point I was going to make is I seem to remember my father telling me that in the 1940s there was a Chancellor in Clement Adlai's government who was forced to resign because he had let slip some bit of what they might have been in the budget in advance. And now the whole thing is leak, leak, leak to make us all terrified so when it comes it won't seem as bad as we thought it was going to be.

Yeah, it's caught psychology. We won't fall for it. I'd like to return to the subject we were talking about earlier which is getting up in the night, because you're trying very hard not to get up in the night. This was an intimate private conversation between a man of older years and a woman of considerable years. No, I have a physiotherapist. When I last saw her, had I broken my arm? I don't think so. I broke my arm a couple of years ago, got a physiotherapist, excellent person called

Fenola, and she got my arms working again and she's trying to improve my balance because the reason I broke my arm was I fell over. And she then said to me, having got me walking in balance, how much water are you drinking? And I told her, you know, a glass, two, eight. She said eight. Eight glasses a day. Eight glasses. This size of glass. If I'm holding up quite a large glass. Huge glass.

I am now never out of the lavatory. No. So that's what I was sharing with you. Well, we must get a wiggle on with the interview because you'll be needing to go in a second or two. Did you? But the joy is I could where I am because I'm sponsored by Tenaflex plus Super Soft in Goddard's Bay. Oh gosh, I think that's coming our way as well. There's no shame in that by the way.

It happens to all of us. But candidly, it will happen to everybody. Of course, and we don't talk about it enough, do we? I think we should be more, well not too relaxed because that is the problem. But these things happen to us all. And you've got to own it, you absolutely have. No shame, no embarrassment. Let's just, well we just have been there, we don't need to go there again.

Now officially you're in here. We don't need to go there, that's the problem. Stop making it up. We need to go there all the time. How many times do you get up in the night? I don't, I pride myself on it. Really? The only thing I've got to show for a life of, you know, not colossal achievement, but

at the age of 60 Giles, I can honestly say I don't get up in the night. So there was a point in time where we were going to put on Jane Garvey's dating profile in at number one, sleeps through because actually it's quite something isn't it? It is. It does well Giles, she does very well. It does do well. But I'm quite impressed with myself because at the weekend when the clocks went back I still got up at the same time in the middle of the night.

I adjusted my need to go to the loo adjusted to the timing gosh that's bladder control that is I was really terribly then I woke up my wife to tell her she said why am I being woken at 3 in the morning I said cuz I'm so proud do you think he knows he's in to talk about a book I don't know officially the book is pros and cons the English language in just a minute, described by your friend Suzy Dent as a whirlwind tour of the joys of English. Well, I think anyone who's listened to you Giles over the years knows that you know everything there is to know about our wonderful language, which is spoken by a fifth of the world's population, correct?

Yes, and interestingly, it's now spoken more as a second language than a first language. It's become literally the lingua franca of the world. People speak English everywhere and I love celebrating the English language because it's a mongrel tongue. It's so rich. It's much richer than any other language. Half a million words at least in the Oxford English Dictionary and that's excluding the technical terms. Now I was interested in this because there's an, you write about this in the book, French and German have nowhere near as many words. The French whispered it not, well I mean That's excluding the technical terms. Now, I was interested in this because there's an... You write about this in the book. French and German have nowhere near as many words. The French whispered it not,

well, I'm going to speak it quite clearly. Fewer than 100,000 words. We have 500,000. They're fewer than 100,000. And that includes le week-end, le snack-bar. They're cheating. Why are they so... They're so protective about their language. They've got a special academy that thinks of nothing. They have, that tries to keep out other...

We, by the reverse doing it, have this wonderfully rich language that includes words from India, like bungalow, words from Iceland, like Giza, every kind of word. And the thing you mentioned, Susie Dent, she has made me much more relaxed about the English language than I used to be. I'm still a bit going to be in my bonnet about apostrophes, punctuation still matters to me, but I'm ready to tell you that I had a hot girl summer. I'm quite happy to take on the contemporary lingo. I like that. The riz that I see in the pair of you just gets me going. Can we talk about the great vowel shift? We could. Well, some people will think that's where we began our conversation.

No, that was not. I said vowel. I know, I know. And anyway, the earlier part of the conversation was largely focused on the bladder. But Carol... It was. It was. But they are connected, or they can be as the years go by.

What this book is, I love the English language. My publisher said to me, do a book about the English language, but because we want this to be a fun book that people can give to one another at Christmas time, why don't you do it in the style of the radio show Just a Minute, which is a program on Radio 4, your former parish, which has been going for more than half a century.

Well, Fee has been a guest on it, haven't you? Oh! Yeah, I was a guest with you. Well... LAUGHTER Do apologize. It's seared into my memory, Charles. How did it go? Terribly.

I was with Paul Merton, he was very lovely and Nicholas Parsons gave me a couple of extra points because I needed a bit of help along the way. You were very kind as well and very encouraging in the green room. Do you know what the thing that I really remember from that evening was that everybody brought their partners. I think I met your delightful wife. I think Paul Merton's partner was there, Nicholas Parson's entire family was there. And I realised too late, Sue Perkins was there as well, that I just hadn't brought my husband to work with me that day. It was just quite strange, but it's a real family affair. It's a family affair. We've been doing it for years. Sometimes people in the old days,

I first did it more than 40 years ago with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, who was rather terrifying. On my second appearance with Clement Freud, I was doing too well. And as I was reaching the minute, if people don't know the program, the idea is you've got to talk without interruption

for 60 seconds on a set subject. No deviation, no hesitation, no repetition. And I was getting towards the minute where you win extra points. Clement Freud knocked over the glass of water next to me so that it covered me. It was interesting. He was so... I think he was a difficult chap, wasn't he? Yeah, he was an odd cove, though brilliant at the game. And the idea of the book is that every extract

You've remembered, well done. has to be the length that it would take to do it in 60 seconds. So some of them are long ones because I'm speaking like Kenneth Williams, who tried to get through a lot of words in 60 seconds. Other times I'm like Clement Freud, who went very slowly in order to have the fewest words but not hesitate between them. So it's been fun and it's both, as you say, it talks about the history of the English language, some things like the great vowel shift. What is the great vowel shift? I think I asked that question about, or did I ask the question? I want to know what the great vowel shift is.

I need just a minute to tell you what it is. Go on. Basically, in, I suppose, a thousand years ago, we began speaking in a different way and as a result of speaking in a different way, the Germanic in our language was increased. I'm not really putting this very well, am I? You'd better read the book. What would you say the Great Vile? How would you define it? Well, I look to you. I mean, I'm interested in why, for example. So let's talk about accents, because why is it that in the north of England,

we tend to use the short a and in the south, the long a is more prevalent, though not in every word. So sometimes I'm a northerner pretending to be posh, and sometimes I put a long a where there shouldn't be one. What am I doing? You're really living the Great Vow of Shift. I'm so pleased. I've not actually met anyone before who actually lives and breathes this experience. I'm the living embodiment.

Well, you are the embodiment and it is all to do with where the language has come from, from Germany or from the Vikings and all of that, how it all came over. Our language now is a mixture, obviously Latin and Greek part of it, but basically the French type languages and the Germanic languages and they've come together. And you get the two, there's a choice really, it came about in 1066 where you get more cuisine is the elegant language for cookery. Cook is a solid Germanic word. Cuisine is the more Latin French word. So these two come into play together. Accents is literally a matter of they've changed as the years have gone by and people have begun to move around

the country. People believe that, for example, Shakespeare probably spoke in those times, in Elizabethan times, Shakespeare spoke with a Birmingham accent, because that makes sense of some of the rhyming patterns in Shakespeare. Shakespeare was a Bromley shock. Well, of course he came from Stratford-upon-Avon, which is not that far from Birmingham, forgive me. But the point is that that was a general accent of the day, because it was performed by London actors. Yeah, okay. Giles, you so often crop up when regal matters are prominent.

You discuss the Royal Family quite a lot. You also, and I don't mean this in any way, it's not an accusation in any way at all, but you do pay tribute to people a lot when they've died. And... This is a factor you will find, girls, in 20, 30 years, that you will be the last, you did the last interview with X, Y or Z, and you will be called up. Because what happens when the crisis breaks, they go to the cuttings file and they see, oh, look, is he still with us? Oh, we'll call him.

So I rather dread when on Insta or X the news is broken because I possibly haven't… because I've been around a long time. I did my first television program for ITV in 1969. Gosh, that's the year I was born, Giles. Yeah, exactly. Prime time, Saturday night TV. I've been working my way down ever since. Don't be daft.

But no, but I've never had a prime time Saturday night show since then. But the point is I've met a huge number of people over the years. So when they do fall off the perch, I may go too. And also, to be serious, I've collected people over the years. Yes, you're a loyal friend. I get that impression. Well, I'm fascinated. You mentioned Nicholas Parsons.

And I recall that I first met Nicholas Parsons when I was a student at university 55 years ago at a party hosted by Fanny Craddock. Wife to Johnny. Wife to Johnny. Younger people won't know who Fanny Craddock. Wife to Johnny. Wife to Johnny. Younger people won't know who Fanny Craddock is. Fanny Craddock, curious cross really between, I don't know, Mary Berry and Jeremy Clarkson. There was something sort of strong.

Mary Berry and Attila the Hump. Well, she was formidable. But there was this lovely party that she gave and she invited me and my wife, my girlfriend then, to this party, even though we were 19 or 20. And we therefore met a whole generation of people. Think about it, 50 years ago, we met all the senior people of that generation.

On the doorstep was Lionel Blair. I would have been Lionel Blair, Tony Blair's dad. Lionel Blair and Fanny Craddock. This is 1968. The big film that year was Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. This gave rise to my quip of the evening as I arrived at the party, seeing Fanny Craddock and Lionel Blair side by side, I said, oh look, it's Butch Cassidy and the One Dance Kid.

Giles, thank you. Thank you, Giles. Thank you. Thank you, boom boom. The point is, the book is full of puns and jokes, as well as a proper explanation of the great vowel shift and other learned things from the world of words. Pros and cons is the name of this tome. It would make an ideal gift as the festive season approaches. Thank you. Can we quote you on the cover of the paperback? No, absolutely not. Times Radio. Do you want the shortest poem I've just learnt?

Yes, go on. It's a very short limerick and it goes like this. There once was a man from Peru whose limerick stopped at line two. And he's just going to have some water so he'll be leaving us very soon. Giles Brandreth. Always lovely to see you, Giles. Lovely to see you too. Thank you. I So he'll be leaving us very soon. Giles Brandreth. Thank you always lovely to see you Giles. Giles Brandreth. Thank you. Giles Brandreth. He's just such a welcome guest isn't he? Because He just he does remind me of those little toys that sometimes you get in a higher class of cracker

You know where you twist the round and it just goes all the way down the Christmas dinner table. You've mentioned Christmas dinner. Stop it. Right there. Well, I've already booked my delivery slot. Oh my god. I swear this gets earlier and earlier every year. You'll be doing it in February next year. What time have you gone for? Such a good feeling. So that is coming, I think, on the 22nd, very first thing in the morning.

Oh yes. Yes, yeah. But do you know what, Jane? Absolute props to my son who is currently working, training to be a chef. And he wants to do Christmas dinner this year. Oh, brilliant. Hand it over. So for the first time ever, it will be completely and utterly done by somebody else. His enthusiasm for it is just so lovely it is so lovely so you know I can't wait it's quite a big thing actually when when the tables turn

and the next generation is is kind of hosting and doing it I didn't I wasn't really prepared for it you genuinely do seem positive I have to say my my mother is always slightly less enthusiastic about handing over the reins. But we await developments, maybe she'll have softened our attitude this year. But that is the problem isn't it? When there is ownership of stuff in a family tradition, the friction is dreadful. I think that's true. Also, I think it does depend on space, amount of space, and particularly when you get to a good age, as my mother certainly is, your kitchen is so your territory. It's your area. You have your ways and you put your stuff in a very particular place and then your son-in-law and your daughters come in and they start shifting things about.

Yeah, but I think you've just got to let them. Which would you rather? Well, if you want to tell Maureen that, I'll give her the number. She's got a new phone. It's going well so far and you can tell her. Tension is rising as we approach the festive season. Would you rather have all of your condiments perfectly lined up in the right place and no guests? Well that's the choice isn't it? I always say. It is. And I've gone back to it in my head a couple of times now, the grim Covid Christmases. Yeah, they taught us a lot. They were rubbish and I missed everybody and everything so profoundly on those days that I'm happy to put up with any amount of kerfuffle myself but I'm not at the heart of events. I'm very much an onlooker.

Right, okay, enough of that. We welcome your involvement, Jane and Fee at Time Stop Radio. Dig In is going to be a, I'm going to say, potentially slightly rocky fortnight or so. Year or decade? What do you think? I think we'll all be fine, it's only Monday Jane. Keep the faith, keep the faith. Okay, right, bye. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2-4, on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale, and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online, on DAB, or on the free Times Radio app.

Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider Flu-Silvax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca