Off Air... with Jane and Fi - He didn't realise he was talking to a gobsh*te! (with Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall)

Episode Date: May 5, 2026

Jane and Fi are reunited after the bank holiday, and they've concluded it was a bit hot! We hope you had a good one... Jane and Fi cover losing confidence in driving as you age, whether we’ve gone too far with the number of condiments available today, how cute really chunky babies are, and the pleasure of lending libraries. Plus, cook and writer Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall discusses his new cookbook ‘High Fibre Heroes’. Our next book club pick will be a collection of short stories! 'Interpreter of Maladies' is by Jhumpa Lahiri.  You can check out our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@OffAirWithJaneAndF Our new playlist 'Coiled Spring' is up and running: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4tmoCpbp42ae7R1UY8ofzaOur most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I accuse myself of being pompous. Welcome to Tuesday's edition of Offair with Jane and Fee. Let's check in with Fee and see if she had a good bank holiday weekend. Did you have a good bank holiday weekend, Fee? It's a very kind of you to ask, I hope this finds you well. We were just talking about that as the opening to emails. I use it, you use it, Eve's used it. None of us like ourselves for using it.

I genuinely can't remember what we used to do. Hello. No, no, but you wouldn't have done it. Not an email, no. Because let's say the email is the letter. So in a letter, let's say you were writing to an old friend or an aunt, so not a formal letter, you would have gone, Dear Patricia. I hope you're well.

I hope you're well, I think. I don't know whether we would actually. Anyway, we'll take thoughts on this subject. I had a lovely bank holiday weekend. It was just the right level of, we had one day of blooming sunshine, didn't we, on the Friday, where you did think, oh, it's a little hot. Yes, it was too much. Too much.

A kettle hot by 3 o'clock. And then a suitable amount of damp by the end of it. And I think I declare myself to be 90% slightly soggy barbecue and picky bits. Yeah, I think... Refreshingly, by bank holiday Monday afternoon. There was a real hint of winter, which is exactly what I wanted to feel. I have to put my heating back off an hour yesterday evening. It put it on.

To dry some smalls. Yeah, it was. It was a little bit chilly, Willie. I love the month of men. because if you're lucky enough to have your bank holidays off and actually for you and I that's probably been a very long time coming is only in this decade of my life I've felt brave enough to say I don't want to work a bank holiday thank you very much

because usually the time-honoured fashion is that radio just continues as if with a fourth emergency service and you can't possibly live without us it is you know what they say though marry in May and rue the day do they marry in May and divorce in June that'll be very quick When did you get divorced? I can't remember. But I got married in September.

That doesn't help. Is there a season that suits divorce more than most? Do let us know. Oh dear. I had a weekend with, I would say bits of everything, including, I just wanted to say, I was coming back from Liverpool on Saturday night, and I'll be honest with you, Fee, it was a lovely quiet train until we got to crew.

And then at crew, they really did make a, they absolutely, lumped onto the train at Crewe and I was in a more or less empty unreserved standard class carriage they all came in beer cans well I have beer cans

chanting I feared the worst Cambridge United fans who'd been at crew and unfortunately for some other travellers had seen their team secure promotion to League One

which meant they were in a very very high-spirited mood and the tranquility of the carriage was completely destroyed. But what I will say, in unexpected turn of events, I ended up having a lovely time with them. So I just want to say, shout out to the Cambridge United fans. If anyone's got photographs of Jane having a lovely time

with the recently promoted Cambridge United fans. I can't tell you how livid I was when they arrived. And by the time we got to Houston, it was handshakes. I was charging people's phones. it was honestly brilliant well how lovely but Cambridge is a very civilised city well that was how my conversation

with my seat companion started to be a civilised fan well I made that point you see and then he said you don't know anything about Cambridge and it went on from there and I learned a lot about him actually genuine I won't give any of his because he doesn't know who I am from Adam

he just thought he was talking to a lady on the train not a gobshite he had a fascinating story about his childhood and it turned out incredibly that we had been in the same place together before. And it was the Marseille football riot in 1998. Not a bonding experience. I happened to be a reporter.

He was in the riot. But there you go. I mean, who knew. Do you know what Jane. I feel a working title rom-com coming on here. And are you going to keep in touch? Well, he's 65 and only just got married. So timing has never been good for me.

Oh, that's so annoying. I know. But no, it was a really, really interesting chap. I won't mention his name, although I do remember it. Not I was tipsy, he certainly was. We ended up having a lovely time and a really interesting chat. So look, there you go. Now, is it his first marriage in his early 60s?

No, it was his second. Okay. There's nothing I don't know about this man. Those can fall apart, Jane. So I would keep in touch with where you. You never know what might happen. It's very funny. I mean, we got in the end, as you do,

talking about cats. I think we were somewhere between Milton Keynes and London used to moving on to cats. He has a cat, and he gives the cat every night, every night, some squirty cream in a ramekin as a sort of nighttime treat. Is that right? Why? I don't know what do you think. I was okay with squirty cream. It's the ramekin, the addition of the ramekin. That's slightly disturbing me, like it's a proper pudding being served. To a 12-year-old cat.

Yeah. Well, I mean, whatever. I know, whatever carries your cat through the night, I guess. But anyway, all I'll say about the whole experience, I've said quite a lot about the whole experience, is that you never know who you're going to end up chatting to and how interesting they turn out to be. I should know that by now.

There are very few really dull people in the world. Oh, I completely agree. And as, you know, I mean, so many works of great fiction start with the strangers who meet. Yeah. There is that fantastic podcast, Strangers on a bench, which is exactly that type of conversation that develops. And there's something so joyful about having a decent conversation with the stranger, isn't it? because you genuinely, I think, choose something a little bit different

to tell them about your life than the usual stuff that you're talking about with people who know you. Because you can just, you can pick a mix, can you? I mean, I told him I was an international assassin. Did you? Yeah. Which I haven't ever mentioned before. Right.

Well, I'm amazed that he said, he must have been pissed. Can we just say, well, that's a lovely, that is a very lovely story. It's a cockle warmer. But it is a cocker warmer. Yeah. That's absolutely brilliant. Thank you. And I think you should keep in touch.

I think you should You never know No You should Not on the basis That is second marriage Which is only six weeks old It's going to fall apart

It could You never know Can we say congratulations To our former producer Georgia Who used to produce the podcast Way way back in the day In almost a previous century At the old-fashioned mothership

funded by the public purse Georgia now has a baby And we live in the same part of town So we met up at the beginning of the bank holiday weekend. And I just wanted to say massive congratulations. Little Evie, and it is a little Evie. That's a common name, isn't it? I don't say that.

I can say that because my daughter's also called. Anyway, carry on. It's an absolute delight. It's still one of my most favourite names. And mother and baby are doing very well. And it was just really, really lovely to see her. I have not held such a tiny baby for a very long time, Jane. And it just does do something to your bone marrow, doesn't it?

I think it's quite possible that just within the five and a half minutes that I was having a little squidge with Eva, I may have ovulated again. God, you were due to have another one. You were. Not a baby, but an ovulation. No, I think there's still time. Jane, I think there's still time.

No, they are, I don't know whether, people must tell us about this. Is it an age thing? I have become incredibly interested in babies again. Not that I was ever particularly uninterested in them, but you know what I mean. But also it did make me really, really think about, about that baby time. I think it's so difficult, especially with your first baby,

to work out what an earth is going on. It's such a massive, massive shift in your life. And by the way, this isn't a conversation about Georgia because she looks absolutely thriving and wonderful. But I think for an awful lot of people, you do suddenly find yourself in a place which is just very uncharted territory for you, isn't it? And I remember feeling quite bad,

and I'm only telling you this because I'm interested in whether other people have had the same. experience. I've felt quite bad about feeling so good about being really happy to be away from the rest of the world. I had that kind of questioning of, but, you know, I have had a job for a long time. And the second question that people ask you after how old is your baby is when are you going back to work as the mum? And I found that really discombobulating actually. So it's kind of like, well, I'm only just getting used to this. And I don't, no, I just don't want to be thinking about that. But you're just so, so identified by the person that you're, you're just so identified by the person that

were before having the baby. It's just the go-to thing, isn't it, for the person who's talking to you? And I don't know whether we encourage women to sink into the, you know, feeling good about being away from the rest of the world thing enough. I think there's more pressure on young moms than ever before to stay in the game. But I might be wrong about that and things might have changed because obviously it's 20 years since I was in that position myself. I suppose people questioning relatively new mother might feel that they don't want to assume that she is in speech marks only a only mummy and that she does have a hinterland and a life that she may or may not want to get back to. So perhaps it's difficult for the person asking the questions to know quite where to tread there.

Yeah. I mean, it's not to say that I've, you know, thoroughly enjoyed all of the baby time either. I mean, it is exhausting and it's, you know, it's mind-boggling at times too. But I think maybe we do concentrate on that a lot now. It's a good thing. that we can all say, you know, there's a spectrum of emotions going on, but not making time for people to really settle into a different identity, I think, is perhaps not a path that's great to go all the way down either. Just apropos of what you're talking about. There is a really, I think, a really shocking story on the BBC News website.

I love that you've used a little bit of French so early in the week. Is it French or is it Latin? I can't remember. What was it actually? Apropos. What is that? I think it would be French. I don't know. BBC News website today about people taking advice.

on babies sleeping from completely unqualified, so-called influencers. And from apps. They've all got apps. Don't do it. No. God's sake, don't do it. No.

Yeah. And I know that there are an awful lot. And actually, we should probably do this as a bit of a topic, maybe as a Friday topic. But there are loads and loads of apps now where you can log all of your feeds and all of your baby snaps and all of those kind of things. And you're comparing it to a chart of where a baby's.

could be or should be and wait. Don't do it. Don't do it. You know, the idea that there's a routine that suits babies, there's not, there's a routine that suits you and your baby. There isn't a routine for all babies. Otherwise, every single member of the human race would be and look the same.

Yes, and babies would grow at the same pace and all that kind of stuff. It's just not... Where's our fantastic picture of the really chunky baby that were in a center? Okay, great. So this is from Louis. who says your recent mention of percentiles in height and the little red record book for babies brought back a great memory of my son

who's now a skinny bean pole of a 14-year-old having been a tiny £5 baby at birth. The memorable part, though, was when he was six months old and the health visitor informed us he was in the 95th percentile for weight. He was utterly delicious with rolls of fat and screw-on hands. But in weight terms, he was like a mohouss of sack of potatoes, which wasn't exactly ideal for me,

a physically disabled mum who basically couldn't lift him. Thankfully, the weight fell off as soon as he was mobile, but I thought you'd enjoy the photographic evidence of his great size, and we really have these. They are great images, thank you. And I know what you mean about the screw-on hands. So there's a time when your baby can get so fat that instead of having knuckles, they have dimples.

Do you remember that? Well, not that my kids were minute and remain tiny. Did they never go through a... a big chunky baby phase? Well, no. The younger one, possibly. She was never... I mean, it sounds really rude talking about them like this. They were very, very tiny.

They were ninth centile people. And my eldest child is very much still on the ninth centile. But the younger one, it's like a giant. She's five-four-five. They're beautiful pictures, Louise, thank you very much. And also, it is funny. Yes. Because you've got a picture of the tiny, tiny,

and newly arrived five-downs. He really did take to food when he got there, didn't he? And then you've got the 6'4 14-year-old or whatever he is. Yeah, I dread to think what it takes to fill him these days. Yeah. But what a lovely journey you've been on there. Really nice. Lydia is in Newcastle Pontine.

And actually she was somebody who sent us a letter, and we really do appreciate getting letters. And you can't contact us by snail mail, can't you? Yes, what's the address, Jane? I'm going to do it. Times Radio, News UK, one London, Bridge Street, London. S-E-1-9-G-F. for girlfriend. That's what you should think about it. I always think of it that way.

Well, I haven't until this moment, but I'm always going to think of it. SE1-9 girlfriend, GF. After hearing you talk about brooches recently, I wanted to let you know that they are very much on vogue. My friend Laura Gledhill runs pop-up studio in Gateshead, where she designs and makes, with the help of her family, a range of colourful and humorous fashion accessories that she describes as jewelry for people who've had enough. Her brooches have gone viral recently, resulting in a cascade of brooches bearing the world. don't be a dick and what fresh hell is this. So she sent us a lovely Eiffel Tower brooch

and an I Only Like Cats brooch. Thank you, Lydia, a very thoughtful gift. She's also enclosed a book by Barbara Pym. I haven't heard of until you mentioned her when talking about overlooked or rediscovered writers. Bizarrely, I'd been listening to you, talk about her books on Saturday morning, then later the same day, happened upon this book

on offer for free at a local community bookstand. I felt it must be a sign that the book was meant for me and I took it home. I really enjoyed it and it seemed only right to pass it along to you in the hope that you might enjoy it too. Lydia, kind on both counts. We really appreciate it. And I'm going to take this Barbara Pim, excellent women, home with me and give it a jolly good read. I do like the idea of these community bookstands where you can just tape books. That's fantastic. And quite often you see old telephone boxes turned into lending libraries for communities.

and it is. It's a very good idea. We are off to see as the loosely formed Hackney Culture Club. The Barbara Pim at the local theatre. Have I said it better? Theatre. Theatre, better, theatre. At the Arcola Playhouse in a couple of weeks' time. A quartet in autumn is the Barbara Pim we're going to see.

And I thought it was going to be the deeply humourous Barbara Pim because that's what has been recommended to us in book form. I believe it may be a slightly... a more serious thread running through that play I'll report back good God have you talking about have you seen the pit

we tried it but within the first 10 minutes Jane have you watched the first 10 minutes I've seen three episodes now I think four I mean no too much oh I love I love Dr Robbie

who bears don't you think he basically is stigable but with a bit more yeah he is very stick able incredible yeah but I just couldn't do the gore. I mean, there's a... Well, it's not real.

That's what I tell myself. No, but it's so realistic. No, no, no, it says realistic. I like my heel to be attached to the end of my... In general, I do too, yeah. And I don't want to imagine that, you know, were I involved in an accident, one day it wouldn't be. Do you know what I mean?

I just don't want these things in my head, chain. I just think the way they build the characters in that is just so bloody clever. It's very superior American medical entertainment. I'm afraid I think it knocks the British attempts to do that kind of thing out of the park. It would be quite funny, wouldn't it, if you splice it together five minutes of the pit,

five minutes of casualty, five minutes of the pit, five minutes of casualty. Somebody out there will do it. Man on a conservatory at the beginning of casualty, what on earth is going to happen now? Now, I've got an apology to make. You had to apologise. Was it Ken Follett,

whose book you'd carelessly thrown into a charity? It wasn't me because I hadn't ever read that book. I'm saving it for my retirement. I'm going to say exactly the same thing about Julian Clary's book. It's a Sunday Times bestseller. I think it was his memoir, the first part of his memoir. Anyway, it's a book by Julian Clary called A Young Man's Passage. Realising and writing, I preferit if you didn't mention my name,

so we're going to call her Sally. Hello, Jane of Fee. I really enjoyed your Slash. slightly scratchy, it seemed, interview with Julian Clary. He was in a slightly odd mood, wasn't he? Yes, he was. Yeah. Well, I mean, maybe we all were.

I was. We were also trying to integrate scenes of King Charles and Queen Camilla's arrival at the White House. Can I just say it? With an interview with Julian Clary. Not ideal. Potentially not award winning. They will rest that episode.

Inspired. I've picked this up in a charity shop in Margate and wondered if he should have taken the lead in the interview. Now, it is signed. Two fee loved Julian Clary. I honestly don't know. I think there are lots of fees. I think there are probably lots of fees in Margate.

But it is possible, because I've definitely interviewed him before. We've both interviewed him before. So it could be... Basically, no one in Britain has gone on interviewed. Most leading global figures end up coming our way. Yeah. You've got some very good points to make, though, afterwards. I understood what he meant.

when he talked about moving back into London, I'm possibly not far from where he lived. A few stars have homes in the villages near me. And there is a certain political bent that can be quite hard to stomach if you're of the left. The flags last summer laid it open, but it can also be quite tough in the business community. And I find I have to put aside my views and differences

to get on with the people I work with. I have a few queer friends who are comfortable in their communities and with people they're close to, but do find that they can feel a bit exposed in other ways, especially the looks and wonders which still exist where there is a less outward diverse crowd. Plus living in London must be great as you're growing older, culture close by, easy for showbiz work appointments and meetings

and a taxi always a click or hail away if walking or public transport doesn't work for you for any reason. I await the next book club announcement. I really enjoyed town like Alice, despite its very dated politics and worldview. Sally, thank you for all of those mentions. I think the flags thing, we talked about it, didn't we, last summer, you know, for every person who toots their horn and goes, yeah, fantastic,

there's somebody who becomes quieter because the flags are up and that's just not really the country. Ironically, it's not. It's not very English. No, it's not. It's not reunited. No. At all.

When are we, have we already announced the Book Club? Yes, we did it last week. So it's been a long weekend. What can I say? Great. Dear Jane and Fee, looking forward to it, Eve. Dear Jane and Fee, what a great word. No, Eve can't remember either.

He's gone very quiet, isn't she? Because normally she's right in there, but not on this occasion. Dear Jane and Fee, what a great word that is, sluice I'm talking about. It is a good word. This is from Annie. As a student nurse in the 60s, I found the sluice was an excellent place for assignations. Oof, not the sexiest place to have an assignation. I remember them well, says Annie.

the other hand, there was something else unrelated that I was going to mention, but I've forgotten one of the joys of being 81. Best wish is Annie in Bath. Annie, always good to hear from you. Don't you worry? Come back to us when you've remembered. Right, I'm just catching up with your pods, says Jane of Rodgwick, which sounds like a sort of medieval title, Jane of Rodgwick. I think it's more, to me, that's more bonnets on Jane Austen. Oh, yes. She took to Rudgewick for her summers. Yes. She's sheltered from the heat. in Rudgewick. I'm just catching up with your pods and I've listened to the mail from the registrar

who married the same person three times. It brought to mind an old acquaintance of mine. Sadly, his long marriage had failed. However, his wife was pregnant by him and so he still attended the birth. Oh, that was good of him. It must have been nice for her as well. Meantime, he'd been having an affair and his mistress was also pregnant, giving birth within a month of his wife. So he was also present at that birth. He explained his mortification when faced with the same staff. I call that justice, says Jane. I just read out this bit of praise because it's nice to hear it. I love the pod having listened to every single one here and there. You both bring me such joy, and I always have a few in hand to turn to if I need cheering up. Oh, Jane, well, thank you,

because that is quite literally what we're here for. And, you know, we're not going to rock your intellectual boat or ruffle any of your emotional feathers all that much. But we do like to keep people company. That's what it's all about. We're grateful to you. Now, we've got quite a few emails about Liz Earle. And Jane, do you want to save some of the really complimentary ones? And I'll do some of the...

No, there weren't any. I'm just out of there. God, what have I missed? Well, look, can we just say... Let's just say right at the top, because you have had some emails about Lizelle. Her book is number one. in the hardback Sunday Times bestsellers. There you go.

Non-fiction. That's a fact. It is fiction. Non-fiction is, you're absolutely right. It is fact. But as quite a few of you point out, it maybe isn't everybody's fact. And it maybe isn't fact with a capital F.

And our world consists of, and we're completely wrong to think that this is a new kind of time where people can find the evidence that they want, to find, truly believe in it and carry on sailing regardless that's how it's always been. You know, if you look back to olden times and the kind of curious cures

that were being offered, that were often really dangerous, they're from the same place. You know, it worked for one person, so somebody decided that they were going to make a mint out of pretending that it might work for all. So it's part of the human condition to want to believe, isn't it? Back to the whole baby advice thing, aren't we?

We are. We are. Yeah, carry on. But I know that. that when we put the interview out on air, we had a really divided audience because people are intrigued by biohacking and these people who believe that you can elongate your life, I mean, to just the most mind-boggling numbers

and an equal number of people who just think it's absolute what's it. Judith is in the latter category. Your guest in the Thursday podcast made me angry on so many levels. I was shouting at my phone, what a load of tosh, sprinkled with a few undeniable facts, charmingly and confidently presented as scientifically proven.

It was well done, I give her that, but she obviously has no clue about the lives of most of us. My nephew works alternating day and night shifts. Would a better sleep hygiene be good for him, of course? But what's the use? He was lucky to get a job. And a lot of us do not have the means to eat healthy, highly nutritious food. It is often so much more expensive.

As a nutritionist, I must say that her suggestion to put salt in your drinking water is simply wrong. Don't do it. Unless you suffer from severe dehydration due to vomiting and or diarrhea or train on at least half marathon level, your drinking water and your normal diet contains more than enough minerals, which she likes to call electrolytes. Absolutely no supplementation is necessary. All you really need to know about nutrition, Michael Pollan has wonderfully summarised, eat food, not too much, mostly plants in his book in defence of food and eaters manifesto. Sorry about the rant, says Judith, I deleted all swear words and exclamation marks.

Well, you're not alone in people who were annoyed at hearing Liselle. I mean, you know, we invite people onto the podcast from all kinds of different places and, you know, our job is to allow them to tell us what they want to tell us, but hopefully not get away with absolutely everything. And I hope that the interview did that. But as you say, it's a very, very successful book. People are really, really curious about it. I mean, she obviously has many.

It was the hot cloth cleanser you liked, wasn't it? I did like the hot cloth cleanser. It's no good. I mean, I'm an absolute sucker for all kinds of emolients. So I'm not going to slack any of them off either. moisturisers and body lotions and all the rest of it. But the whole live a long time thing and how you get there and ways to do it.

I'm not sure. The sleep hygiene thing. I mean, it's so, you know, of course people on shifts would love to get their full eight hours in between 11 and 7, but it's just not a reality for so many people. No, not at all. And also I think maybe you just have to be a bit wiser about recognising how different you are

to lots of other people because, you know, as we were talking about in the interview, I just don't, I mean, I just can't afford to live 130 years and I've got my reasons for not wanting to. So that should be fine. You know, it should be just completely acceptable. I don't really want to always be told that I could change, you know, my imagined lifespan.

That's not helpful. And as a world, we just can't support longevity. We can't support it now, let alone in the future. So recognise those things. And then, you know, I think people who are a bit cynical about your premise might be a tad less so. Yeah. I mean, I've given a little lecture there, too. No, I think it's really interesting.

I just, I think, look, if you're pampered and you're well off and you perhaps don't work full time and your children are healthy and your parents are either long gone or also okay, then you've got plenty of time to focus on yourself. the plain fact is there are loads of particularly, I am going to say, particularly women listening to this podcast who aren't in that situation. They are absolutely overburdened. And I'm just, I mentioned that because I've just got an email here from a listener. We don't necessarily, we won't mention your name. I hope it's not because you've asked for me to keep you anonymous. But she says, I've just been listening to one of your podcasts, waiting for my train. I'm

feeling just a bit low. I'm on route to visit my mum who's elderly and finding life hard going. So your comments about care and siblings, etc., are very relevant. and thought-provoking. One thing I would say is it's sad to see your parent or parents diminish in front of your eyes. Somehow I just never thought about this time of life and how I'd cope when it was my turn to care for my mum. Now, with children, well, young men of my own, I'm so conscious that I want them to share the task of visiting me in a care home when I'm older, but I don't really want to be a burden to them. In the podcast, you also mentioned Coiled Spring. That's our Spotify playlist so I listened to a couple of tracks

and I did feel better as a result. I did some joyful dancing. By that I mean I jiggled my legs around in time to Gloria. Easier said than done when sitting on a station bench. That leads me to ask if you've got any advice for dealing with hard times in your 50s. I've had a bit of a bad run lately. My mum, job, younger son about to leave home, etc.

And I'm just finding it hard to jean myself up. I fear I'm becoming a real Debbie Downer. Well, thank you. And I'm sure you're not. by the way, you don't sound like a Debbie Downer. She doesn't, does she? No. She just sounds like somebody going through a bit of, I'm going to say it, relatively routine shit in your 50s. I think it's, I'm not in any way downplaying what's happening to you, but I think it is a very common set of circumstances, which doesn't mean that it's easy to navigate.

It can be really hard, and when you're talking to your mates, most of them are also going through the same thing, and you don't want to bring them down with you, do you? There's a U-Bend of happiness, isn't there, that has been identified. and you're at the bottom of it. I mean, I'll say we're at the bottom of it. And you do dip all of the way down because in your 50s, you do tend to have quite a lot of responsibility

to two generations, maybe three generations. But then the evidence seems to be, and in fact, I think it's clearer for women than for men, that we then go back up. And so, you know, there may be a far more enlightening and sunny place to be in our 60s, and 70s. So I don't think that makes it any easier

on a day-to-day basis to get through all the stuff that you're getting through but I just wouldn't beat yourself up about it. No. And there'll be loads of people and Jane and I would just, we are not those people who'd go, well you should take up this, you should take up that. I honestly believe you should just do less when things are really stressful,

just do less and do it better or easier and then find all of the hobbies. No, we're not going to tell you to join a club, take up long distance running. Or at the moment, go on a cruise. Don't go on a cruise, for God say. Anyway, thank you for that email. You've probably hit lots of points that other listeners are at.

So I'm sure they will respond with their own. There are no solutions, but to that woman, you're just not alone. No, that you're not. Have you seen the Devil wears Prada too? No, and I'm saving it for next weekend. Don't give away the ending. Please don't. Spoiler on it.

Spoiler up, thank you. I actually, I know that some people have, criticise the film, I just was really entertained by it. So I think sometimes you just go to the cinema, you want to have a few chuckles and leave just slightly jollier than when you went in, and that's what happened to me. Totally, totally. Can I punt something out to the hive that came up in discussion with a woman of the same kind of age as us? And we both discovered that we both have, and an awful lot of our friends have developed quite a fear of driving. So, she She very sensibly, because she's got a very long drive coming up all the way up to Scotland,

booked herself onto a refresher course because she had really lost her confidence, particularly driving on motorways. And I've lost my confidence driving on motorways. I used to not think it just didn't have bat an eyelid about driving huge distances. And because mum lived in Scotland, actually that drive up the East Coast from London is a pretty familiar one. Oh gosh, I mean, you wouldn't be able to do London to Montrose in less than seven and a half. eight hours. So obviously I'd take the necessary breaks and whatever and quite often my sister and I used to share the driving, but it's a mega drive. But now I just wouldn't even dream of it.

I mean, I don't even take the train to go. I'd take the train to go and see my mum. I won't even drive. She's not in Montrose anymore. She's in Swindon. But it's more than that. It's a, it's a genuine feeling that we've lost our confidence. And she was saying that when she said this to other friends of hers, a lot of female friends have said, yeah, you know, I just don't drive anymore. So we were just wondering whether that's a city thing, where because you've lived in a city too long, you just can't really take the motorway speed or vista or whatever, or whether it is something about middle age where I don't know what it would be,

but I really identified with absolutely everything that she was saying. And I've slightly tempered my travel choices because I don't want to drive very long distances, and certainly I can't drive at night because of the dazzling headlights. But you still sometimes do very long drives to Liverpool. I will drive to Liverpool. It's not my favourite because you have to, without getting to, people will be thinking, what's this?

The M6 toll road is a little bit of a blessing. Conversations about transport belong just as much in this podcast. You're absolutely right, Fee, actually. Yes, you're absolutely right. That makes it easier. But I've got a mini, driving particularly to Liverpool. or back from Liverpool to London, down the M6, you are in a small car,

on a stretch of road, which you're sharing with enormous trucks and lorries. And look, they've got to do that. It's really important. We need them to ferry goods around the country. I totally get it. But it's really hard to be sharing that motorway space in a mini. You do feel, oh, God.

And it's, yeah, it's, I didn't use to think about it very much either. I should say that I've always had in the back of my head that I'm aware friends of mine have lost very close relatives in accidents so it's not like I know that road accidents don't happen I'm only too aware that they do so I'd like to think that I was relatively cautious but it's an absolute knacker very recently I drove to Liverpool one day and drove back later the next day

and that was sort of so 12 hours probably a driving in a about 30 hours and that felt like a really exhausting thing to do. But you don't have a fear of driving per se. I think I've got an increasing awareness of the responsibility of being a driver. Yeah. Because you are in control of a machine that can do extraordinary amounts of damage. I think that's probably what I'm aware of. Yeah.

Well, I'd be interested in hearing people's thoughts and also I just hugely admire people who then recognise that and do something about it. Instead of, you know, my path has been, let's just take the train on. It's just not going on. I mean, I do loads of train travel and I do, it is relatively relaxing. Yes, no, I find it. As I illustrated the other day, you meet new people, you do. And you can read books and all that kind of stuff and I really, really love it. And I don't, you know, when I start swearing at the traffic and then it's kind of like, no, I am the traffic, I have to have a lot of words with myself. But people who do something about it as in go on a refresher call, face it head on, try and get over it, I think is superb,

and I've been a bit of coward about doing that. What I would also really worry about is I would never, ever drive in an emergency. Do you know what I mean? So getting a phone call saying you're going to have to come, I would always, always seek a way out of driving. I would not want to be the person behind the wheel in a potentially, should we say, time. A heightened state of emotion.

Not a good idea. I'm completely with you on that. I really wouldn't do it. That's a bit grim, but it's just real, isn't it? Yeah, no, it's an interesting topic. And also I think it will help all of us adjust to driverless cars, which are definitely coming our ways. I've seen them all around London now.

They're measuring up, aren't they? They're not actually driving at the moment, but they've got people in them who are just reading books while they're, whatever it is, the wham. I'll tell you what, our grandparents really wouldn't have believed that, would they? They wouldn't have believed that that would happen. No. There are lots and lots of things that they wouldn't have believed.

There was a great article in the Times the other days. In the Times? Yes, have we gone too far? Oracado, there are 600 condiments to choose from. And that's another thing that our grandparents, they would not have understood. Serracha mayonnaise. Guilty. It's lovely. Get it if you can see it.

It's too much choice. There is too much choice. Also, I just want to say hello to Rachel. She's going through chemotherapy. It's brutal, grueling, grinds me down. At least that's been my experience, she says. By the time I've recovered from my final session at the end of this month, the diagnostic period, major operation, recovery, chemo, recovery,

huge numbers of blood tests, blood transfusions, etc. It will have taken up a year of my ever-shortening old age. But the doctors are optimistic and they'll keep checking me, so here is hoping. Rachel, lots of love to you and thank you. And I just hope that you keep in touch with us and tell us how things are. Right, shall we head into the guest? Hugh Fernie Whittingstall would like us to eat more fibre. He says that veg like peas and cabbage and carrots are often overlooked

and here'd like that to change. We shouldn't all be beguiled by the sexy cheer seeds. His latest book advocates understanding our gut biome a bit more and indulging in some fibre maxing. And here he is in the studio looking good as well. Oh, you're kind. Thank you. Yeah, Janie, I've said, you know, you're definitely,

if you're doing your own work, it's working for you. What have you eaten so far today? What have I eaten? I actually had a slice of a quiche that I made yesterday evening with my son. That was very good. And I munched some carrots. While I was making a little dish for you, which has got carrots in it, I was munching the, I was like put two bits in, munch one.

So I was. Is it hygienic what we're about to do? It'll be hygienic if it's heated to 70 degrees for more than two minutes. I got past my exam for knowing when food is safe many years ago. Your primary food hygiene certificate. Yeah, okay. Well, Jane will be doing the taste testing here. No, I think it'll be fine.

How much fibre should we be eating every day? And surely it depends on the person. Sure, but in the end, you know, we like averaging these things out a bit to give people something to aim for. And the recommended amount is 30 grams a day. And we are not getting anywhere near it. I mean, almost all of us are not doing that. Like 90 plus percent of the population is not getting 30 grams of fibre a day. And that is one particularly useful lens to look at the problem of diet-related disease in the country.

You know, it is a real difficulty. And there's a lot of talk about ultra-processed foods. and indeed they are, you know, a big part of the problem. But one of the issues with ultra-processed foods is they've had the fibre taken out, most of it. Because all the white flowers and things that they're made of behave much better in industrial machines if they're just, if they've had the brand taken out, and they've become more malleable, more flexible, more plastic, if you like. And we, it's just, we've moved away from foods that are,

whole and natural. But it isn't that hard to move back. And I'd like us to move back to some very, very familiar veg and make them, make them not just a bit on the side, but the real heroes. Easy to find things like peas, carrots, cabbage, broccoli, spinach, kale, kale, all of these things. So for the first time vegetable user, and there won't be one out there amongst Times Radio listeners or our podcast listeners, because we've taken our food seriously, I'm sure. But if you are just a bit scared of vegetables and loads of kids are, aren't they? What's the entry level one, do you think?

Well, I think the thing is to see vegetables as incredibly useful ingredients in dishes that they can actually be the star of. So anything a little bit spicy, everyone loves a roast potato, but there's almost no vegetable you can't roast to make it a little bit more, to make the flavour a bit more intense,

to give it chewy, caramelised, as an edge is to maybe throw a little bit of spice over it and let that kind of roast into the veg. And it's, if you, if meals are built consistently around meat and fish, they're, they're very tyrannical ingredients. They just hog all the attention. And that's very true for chefs. But it's also true for people at home. It's like, let's make a big fuss of the meat and the veg will be an afterthought. Let's make a bit more fuss about the veg and not exotic, veg, but just you're literally common or garden peas from the freezer, spinach from the freezer, carrots that are probably in your fridge already.

Jane is taste testing. Oh, hang on, there's a very important ingredient which I need to finish it with, but I left it outside. It wants a squeeze of line, which I've got last minute squeeze. We'll get our colleague Young Eve to come back in with the line. It needs a squeeze of lime. Because it's a hot and sour broth, you're getting quite a lot of the hot and not a great deal of the sour.

These are butter beans. Butter beans. and carrots, a little bit of spring onion, a little bit of chili. A nice veg stock, you can use miso or a good bouillon. Just to round it out. Very nice indeed. And it's just to show that the humble carrot

plus a tin of beans and a little bit of spice really does make a hearty meal. Where did all of the obsession with protein come from and are you concerned about protein hogging the stage? Well, I am a little bit because very, very few people have got a problem that they're having not enough protein. The protein, as far as I can tell, the obsession with protein is pretty focused on, as a sort of gym bro companion to making your body a certain shape.

Low carb high protein if you want to, if you're aiming for muscle definition. But it isn't a dietary crisis in the way that the lack of fibre is, which is making a lot of people ill because fiber is so central to our gut health, which we now know is a really important part of our overall health, which keeps us well in so many ways, not just physically well, but it's actually the guardian of our mental health is also the health of our gut microbiome. It's essential for us to be able to produce neurotransmitters, the brain chemicals that keep us feeling, keep us feeling steady, dopamine, serotonin. If your gut's not working very well, it doesn't synthesize these neurotransmitters. So it's a big, holistic picture, and fibres right

in the middle of it. I think protein is a bit of a distraction. And protein, the kind of the push of protein just seems to be on so many things now. I bought a tub of cottage cheese. I mean, it's a very benign little thing, a tub of cottage cheese in the supermarket at the weekend, and emblazoned across it was how much protein it had. Quite a lot of dairy products are being boosted with some kind of milk-derived protein powder, probably sort of way-based, extra stirred back into a yoghurt or a cottage cheese

in order that they can put high protein on the... But I'm the classic person. There's a decent amount of protein in natural yoghurt or whole milk. Anyway, it doesn't really need a boost. No, and I'm the person that you're referring to. to who actually, because I don't want to disillusion or disappoint people, but I've not got a Jimbrough body here and I don't really want one. So the idea that I need more protein is just daft. I actually don't, do I? I think it's highly unlikely that you need more protein to be well.

I'm not going to speculate as to whether you need more fibre because you both look extremely well and you're probably getting close to your 30 grams if not smashing in every day. But most people aren't. Yeah, tell us what 30 grams of fibre looks like on a plate. Well, 30 grams of fibre across the day looks like it's not like an insane amount. It's just a few decent helpings of whole grains and fresh veg and maybe a bit of fruit. So if you start the day with a bit of whole grain toast or some porridge or a cereal that is whole grain and not, you know, not just loaded with sugar. and then if for lunch you've got something a bit salady, even if some of it's in a sandwich, and then you've got to hit some nice veg in the evening, but a nice soup like the one you've got,

which has got beans and carrots. I'm a big, beans are just such a great way to get fibre. And as protein people will tell you, there's a fair bit of protein in there too. But it's just a really good overall food. And beans are lovely because they're not like the most tasty things in the world on their own. But anything saucy or soupy or spicy like a curry, if there's a sauce or a, you know, a pasta sauce, if you said, could I throw in a tin of beans? It's very rarely a bad idea. Are the things in your early cookbooks, and you've written 29 cookbooks, that now would make you blush a little bit,

or you just simply wouldn't cook, wouldn't serve, wouldn't really want to own? Because our food, fashions change. Yeah, my recipes have evolved. for sure. And if I go back to some of the, probably the dessert sections and cakes and treats in some of my earlier books, I wouldn't sort of disown them, but I would probably, I would certainly now say, well, you know what, you can knock out 20% of that sugar and you won't notice, because that's what we've been doing systematically. That's what we, that's what we do at River Cottage at the cookery school and the restaurant. Nobody notices if you take 20% to 25%

sugar out of every dessert or cake you ever bake. I promised you no one, no one will, it's got like, What's the tipping point if you take out 50? I think you could often get away with 50. Because there's still a lot of sugar, right? I mean, there's still, if you put two ounce, if it's an old-fashioned little Victoria sponge and you're putting two ounces of sugar instead of four, that's still a lot of sugar.

It's sweet. It looks a lot of sugar, doesn't it? If you think how sweet a cup of tea, like 300 mil cup of tea that you put one teaspoon of sugar in, well, your cake is probably only weighs twice as much, a little Victoria sponge. is probably 600 mil of batter in it. A few teaspoons of sugar, it's going to taste sweet.

Okay. And you're not doing the squirrel and placenta dishes anymore. Every single article I've ever read about you, Hugh mentions cooking squirrel and placenta. It must be the anniversary of the placenta or something. It seems to be coming around a lot. After quite a lot of years of people not talking about placenta, suddenly they want to talk about it.

Oh, you've got some wedges of lime now. That is going to give it a little kick. Well, I like to enjoy it. Yeah, I like to wear my coat pocket, weren't they? In your coat pocket? Squeeze your own. Gosh, I don't know where this into you're going now.

And be as generous as you like. Two wedges. It does add that last minute kick. Okay, I will do that in just a couple of moments time. Can we play some cookbook bingo please? Because our listeners have been sending in their numbers. So first, on the bingo card, it was Elizabeth born in 1966. She wants page 66.

Oh, what is it going to be, Hugh? Okay, Elizabeth, you're a year younger than I am. If we were twins, you'd have nutty carrot wraps. But because you were a year younger, we're having roast veg with roast carrot hummus. This is a perfect example of what I was talking about. How delicious it is when you shove a load of veg on a tray and whack it in the oven with a little bit of oil and seasoning until everything gets caramelised and chew. Can I ask a question? Flavored oil?

What do you think about that? Well, I would rather use a natural neutral oil and add the flavorings myself. So I don't want to someone put the garlic in. my oil like a couple of months ago when I've got garlic, you know, I can put it in today as it goes in the pan. So I'm not a big one for flavoured oils. A bit of olive oil

or coal-press rapeseed oil is actually quite good at roasting because it doesn't mind a bit of high heat. So the fun thing about this is it's carrots and cauliflower or wedges of cabbage roasted together, some new potatoes if you like, and then you steal a few of the roasted carrots

and you blitz them up with some chickpeas into a kind of warm hummus and then you serve the roasted veg so the hummus is the saucy bit so it's nice to think of when we eat eating meat or fish we like a bit of gravy or a sauce veg likes to be served with something a little bit creamy and so i often use something a bit like a hummus but not let down with a bit more maybe with a little bit more stock to make it a bit softer and that's a creamy that's a lovely creamy thing that can go underneath your roast veg so that when you eat them. Everything's just yummy and melts in the mouth. Very nice. It's carrot and carrot, isn't it? I do love a roast

carrot. Yeah, I'm with you on that. Roast carrots, I mean, it's such a great vegetable carrot. And, you know, people have got carrots in their fridge right now, thinking, am I just going to cut them into 10 piece piece slices and boil them and put them? No, there's so many, put them in the oven with a little bit of spice. Don't you need to parboil them first? No, you don't, not if you're roasting them. It depends how small you cut them. I would just cut them into nice little pointy wedges and the pointy bits get a bit, a little bit burnt and chewy, and the wider bits just get just tender.

But no, I've never, never blanched carrot. I might if I was putting them on a barbecue, just so they don't have to stay on the heat too long. I might blanch a bit of broccoli or cauliflower and then whack it on the barbecue. But roasting, all the veg that are roasted in this book, they just go in raw and come out lovely and chewy and tender. Next on the bingo card we have got Anne in Norfolk going for number 57 Hugh coming in number 57 page 57 she wasn't born in 1950s people exist to but this is to do with beans because it's Heinz 57 varieties oh I see just been thinking about things 57 is the one you're eating got right in front of you

you have won the bingo basically you are eating hot and sour carrot broth and now you've been handed a wedge of lime it's like even more tangy than when it first arrived in front of you. So this is the first recipe in the chapter, in the carrots chapter. And each of my veg heroes has got it. There's a whole chapter of recipes for peas, one for carrots, one for broccoli. And the way I've done it is I've given them each a couple of really hearty soups, each a couple of really big salads, and then some main course dishes.

And the rule with the main course dishes is they've got to be straightforward. So they either come together in a pan on the hob or they get whacked in the other. in a tray and maybe while they're simmering or roasting you make a little something like a dressing or some toasted nuts and seeds or something to sprinkle or trickle over them when they come out to give them a bit of extra tastiness can we just put this point to you moira is in Bournemouth she's watching us on youtube she's loving it but she would like you to grow your hair long again oh okay well it's it does get to this critical point where these days where because it has been at least 15 years since it was shaggy, if you like,

gets to a point where I think I'm still about six months away from shaggy, from old school shaggy, and it's looking a bit of a mess. You've got a good head of hair, though. I capitulate, and I go to the hairdresser, and I get it cut, and I quite like it tidy these days. Yes, I think it looks smart now. What do you think? You're kind.

I don't have very strong thoughts on either of use pastiles. I'm so disappointed that you don't have strong thoughts about. Come on, Fee. Okay. If I'm going to come down on one, one side of the other, I think the shorter is better. Thank you. Thank you. I'm really glad to come here today, principally, to be judged for my appearance rather than my cooking.

Oh, well, we're just getting our own back. No, that's why I think. It's the revenge. It's the revenge. The God forbid that we're ever, ever judge a man. I can take it. I can take it. I think you can. Especially as you've been kind. You've been very involved with environmental campaigns all of your life. And I know particularly with River Action, can I ask you what is a really depressing question? Are we just too late to save some?

of Britain's most loved waterways and rivers? Well, I've got a not too depressing answer to that. We're definitely not too late. The extraordinary thing is about water systems is they're, I mean, we've made a big mess of it. There's a lot of damage that's been done. I'm not going to be at all beat about that bush at all. It's a nightmare how things are in our rivers at the moment. But, you know, rainfalls from the sky, replenishing the water systems,

Tides bring the sea in and out of the beach every day. If we stopped polluting or reduced pollution by a significant amount, rivers and the sea would put in a remarkable job of recovering themselves. I mean, the sea has a, as by the way, I would extend this thing, as would our soil. You know, these are natural systems with an extraordinary power for self-recovery and regeneration. but we just have to give them a favorable opportunity to have that recovery. And if we continue to just throw toxic things in the sea, plastics in the sea, farming chemicals in the rivers, toxic sewage that hasn't been treated properly into the rivers,

they're not going to bounce back anytime soon. But when we stop that behavior, they will reward us, and say, look, what we can do. Thank you for not giving us all those horrible things. Now we can set about growing our habitats back. Do you think that most people, though, understand the connection between the delicious piece of deep-fried chicken that they might eat on a Friday night

from any establishment up and down the high streets of England and a polluted river like the Y, where the runoff from where those chickens have been housed, has killed huge parts of the ecosystem? You know, dirty business, the Channel 4 documentary about Thames Water and other water companies was absolutely brilliant. I agree. But there hasn't been, there just has not been that much really kind of direct-to-consumer coverage of the connection between our food and our world.

I hear what you're saying and I hoped, as I think many people did, that it would be a bit like Mr. Bates and the postman type of moment for, but I do think people do feel very strongly and care. a lot about the state of our rivers. It's difficult to know when a government changes colour, if you like, and then still nothing happens, it's like, well, who do I vote for to get this job done? Well, I'm a member of a party that, we don't have to go into that in any need, but I'm a member of party that I think is very committed to cleaning up that sort of stuff. Well, which party? The Green Party. Is it as green as it used to be? I think it is as green as it used to be, but it's also, covering a broad spectrum of policy issues that people who want to take a party seriously

as a potential party of government need to see covered and I think that's fair enough. Do you have any problem with the politics at the top of the Green Party? And Zach Polansky, I mean, he definitely has upset so many people, Hugh, in drawing a conclusion from a violent attack in North London that police brutality was the thing that we should.

should all be focusing on. Yeah, I mean, he's apologized for that and said that he should have been working to lower the temperature rather than raise it. And also the thing that caused a fence was not an original post, but a repost. But the point is taken. But if we're going to see potential leaders out in the world making their case to the public, they're going to make mistakes and sometimes they're going to admit they've made mistakes. We have a prime minister at the moment who's really seems to be very bad admitting he's made any mistakes at all. And I think people are getting really quite frustrated about that. In a return to Coo Bingo, Cookbook Tingo, after that little digression. No, we can go anywhere on this programme. We certainly can. And I know that you don't

mind doing that too. We have got Andrew in at page 113, which I have to say Andrew is a fantastic choice very luscious photograph on page 113. Hugh, it's your big old beanie chili. It is my big old beanie chili. So this is actually a kind of seminal recipe for the book, really, which is just like, let's make a vegetarian chili con carne as delicious as it can possibly be. And it really is. It's got an awful lot going for it. You can be quite relaxed about some of the veg going in, but it's good to have some roots. Always got a lot. have the sort of baseline veg of carrots, onions and celery gives that really well rounded out flavour, plenty of tomatoes. And then a secret ingredient, tiny little bit of chocolate or cocoa

powder, just rounds it off and gives you that kind of not so it tastes of chocolate, by the way. There's a couple of really brilliant things that help give backbone, if you like, really can boost the umami hit of a lot of vegan and vegetarian dishes. And they are chocolate and coffee. Not that you ever want your dish to taste of either of them, but just as a little background ingredient, adding a bit of richness. And the reason they're so great is because they've been roasted and toasted. So they've got that kind of, that almost slightly burnt flavor that you get from coffee.

It's actually really good a pinch of coffee in a meaty gravy too, if you're just trying to build up a bit of flavour. If someone tells you your gravy, whether vegan or meaty, tastes of coffee, you've overdone it. But if you've put a little bit of coffee and they don't know, a little bit of instant, Or a little bit of leftover, two, three teaspoons from your, save from your espresso in the morning, into your gravy. It's a real flavour booster.

Very briefly, if you can, if you were going to try and introduce onto the plate of the leader of the free world, a vegetable. We believe that he doesn't really take vegetables, President Trump. Which vegetable would it be? Well, I'm not sure I want it. It's a dilemma in itself. Do you want to improve his health? That's the dilemma I'm wrestling with, Jane, but you put it to me like assuming that I wanted to improve his health.

No, you can say no vegetables at all. That's absolutely fine. It's a perfectly reasonable answer. Well, I suppose I should be a little bit more. A lot of people seem to take an interest in what he does and what he says, for reasons that seem mysterious to some of the time. But given that people might follow his lead, I'd encourage him to get into peas.

They're so easy. Fantastic. And that's where we're going to leave it. Thank you very much. It's been an absolute pleasure. Lovely to see you. It's very nice to see you too. High fibre heroes is the latest cookbook from Hugh Furny Wittenstall.

Thank you very much, Hugh. Hugh Furny Wittenstall. So if you want to learn a little bit more about packing fiber into your diet, fiber is our new friend, Jane. Well, I thought it was protein. I can't keep up. No, protein's gone on holiday now. We're back with fiber.

God, I've only just got back to the protein cottage cheese. I cannot wait for carbs to come around again. When will bagels be front and centre of our health drive? That's what I'm waiting for. They will. They will come round. Right, we've got some fabulous guests this week as well. We've got the crime writer Peter Hannington on Thursday. He's got a cracking new book.

I think it's going to be a series out. You may have read before. He's written three other books, hasn't he? Starting with a dying breed, which is a fantastic book. if you're into journalism and it's place in the world of crime and who isn't who isn't yeah good well said

then you'll like Peter's books very much and tomorrow an interview you've done today Abigail Disney is on tomorrow and all I'll say is she is one of the Disney's she is by her own admission so minted she doesn't know how minted she is and she's given away millions of her dollars

and she is I think she's a really interesting interviewee because we don't hear often from the mega, mega rich criticizing the other mega rich and basically asking them to contribute more. And she also just points out that she doesn't want to destroy the magic for anyone who really loved their trip to Disneyland,

Disney World and watches a lot of shows on Disney Plus and loved Snow White and all the rest of it. But there's a darker reality there. She's very, very interesting on that. Excellent. Can't wait to hear that. If you'd like to email us, we take all your thoughts, any thought, no thought too big or too small. We're Jane and Fee at Times.comradio. And once again, congratulations to Cambridge United.

Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do it live, every day, Monday. day to Thursday, two till four on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online, on DAB, or on the free Times Radio app. Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury, and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.