Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Headbanging to The Three Humanities Degrees (with Lisa McGee)

Episode Date: February 10, 2026

We know you’ve all been on the edge of your seats (particularly if you’re anything like Shaun Evans), but fear not, Fi brings you an Anusol update… Plus, there’s discussion about Jane on the drums, lengths of meetings, fat and happy pets, and the diabolical nature of the sheet cake. Also, Lisa McGee, creator and writer of Derry Girls, discusses her new show ‘How to Get to Heaven from Belfast’. Our next book club pick is 'A Town Like Alice' by Nevil Shute. Our most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton. You can listen to our 'I'm in the cupboard on Christmas' playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1awQioX5y4fxhTAK8ZPhwQIf you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producers: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oh, no, I do. No, I do. Because it's not proper work a meeting. Well, the meetings that we go to, you could boil them down, don't you think? Could boil every meeting down to about... There should be a maximum length of a meeting, shouldn't there? Yeah. What do you think it would be? 20 minutes. I think that's a good length of a meeting.

What's that famous expression? I know I've mentioned it before. Everything's been said, but not everyone has said it. And everyone needs the chance to say it. Exactly. Anyway, right. I just want to draw everyone's attention. It's Tuesday as we speak. And there's a little bit in the Times Diary today.

I don't know about you, Fee, but this would be my idea of a tiny, a minor version of hell. It was a Saturday night gig by a supergroup called Centrist Dad. Oh, we know who's in Centrist Dad, don't we? ITB is Robert Peston. Yeah. Radio 4's John Wilson Ed Balls

And Ed Balls And they're all in there In a man band Yeah Well we could get it together Couldn't it What would we call ourselves Well

The three humanities degrees Yeah Listen That's it Well done It's including you Eve We did get a nasty WhatsApp once

Didn't we describing us As the centrist Granny's of Times Well it was one of the nicer I didn't take it too bad we've been called Not Worse on it. Actually, we have. And we kind of own centrist.

I think we settled on centrist Nans as being where we'd like to be in the Times Radio. Spectrum, fulcrum, what do I mean? Line up. Yeah, Spectrum will do. What happened with the centrist dads? Why have they made a diary column? Because it was rumoured to be a gathering of labour, well, you know, glitterati, all in the same room on Saturday night,

because Yvette Cooper was there, Foreign Secretary. Ed Miliband, currently in charge of our energy needs, the Mayor of London, Sadie Khan, and John Healy, Defence Secretary. They were all together. Wow. Watching, centrist dad. I mean, I don't mean to be offensive,

but a man band of, let's just be honest, galloping egos as they head towards... Who does the singing? I don't know. They're all well, and let's be honest, so am I, heading towards their seventh decade? They are. Well, I wonder whether they're...

any good? Are they any good? I don't know. I wasn't in the room but if you were you could let us know. We would love to hear from that. I think there are some bits and pieces available aren't there on the Instagram and the YouTube. Don't all rush at once. Yeah, of previous performances. It'd be lovely to be in a band though don't you think? Yes, well would it? I'd love to have been in a band. Okay, what would you have been? I would have been bass guitar, definitely. And in fact when I was watching a bit of Redding because the young people were involved in the Redding this summer and there were quite a few all-girl bands, Chapel Rhone in particular and they were just having such a good time Jane. They're having such a bloody good time.

It does look impossibly cool. It does and especially on the guitar. I wouldn't, I mean the drums is hard work. Oh you see I'd have gone quite really really hard work. I'd love to be let loose on a drum kit just once in my life just to see whether it's my equivalent of a kind of rage room. Yeah definitely. We were talking about rage rooms. and I'd love to have just a proper good bash on a quite upmarket drum kit. Yeah, well go for it. I'm sure you can find. Sure, you must have a friend who's got drum kits. You've got friends with middle-aged husbands.

There'll be a drum kit lurking around there somewhere. Yeah, no, there'll be quite a few in the shed from teenage years as well. If you are a drummer and you're a female drummer, I'd like to hear from you, does it require proper, I suppose it does require arm strength. Yeah, you must have. But it would be so good for the upper arms, wouldn't it? It would be. Very, very good.

Absolutely. Yeah. Karen Brady, I read a piece about her the other day. Karen Brady cropped up in conversation a little earlier. Really? We're having a Karen Brady day. Now, why did she crop up in conversation? You carry on with your thought, because I suspect that it's similar.

Okay. She was extolling the virtues of a procedure that she had had on her upper arms because she said that she, as part of the aging process, had got to the point where she couldn't, and these were her exact words, she couldn't bear her upper arms in public, B-A-R-E. And she's had this procedure and, you know, it all looks marvellous and toned and all that kind of stuff.

But I was just really struck by that feeling that she felt that she couldn't get her upper arms out in public because we're not living under the Taliban. No. I mean, you can, but it's just they're not going to look as nice. Well, so you absolutely can. And I know that it's a real vulnerability for an awful lot of women, their upper arms,

because we get used to them being on display when we're younger, maybe more so than our legs. If you don't have nice legs, you've never worn a mini skirt anyway. But you don't really have to ever think my arms are letting me down until a certain age where they just do

because you can't keep the muscle tone and all that kind of stuff. But I just thought, oh gosh, Karen, please don't. Just carry on. Carry on. Let your upper arms go on display. Please don't worry about that. It's not worth it.

I mean, she's had a glittering career, and you're right, we're not living under the Taliban, but it does suggest the patriarchy's definitely taking its toll on Karen Brady, if that's the way she's thinking. And it's really interesting that we all do it. We bandy around, I've done it myself, expressions like nice legs, but what's a nice leg? It's a leg that propels you from one place to another. That's a really good leg. Yeah, but people are always making comments about Michelle Obama's arms.

Of course. I think if you went through, you know, with the data kind of, sucker, you'd be able to find all of the references, and there'd probably be more than anything she had said about American policy, and you could argue she's not an elected official, so she shouldn't say anything about American policy. But she shouldn't be defined entirely by the muscle mass on her upper arms either. No.

Although she, I mean, it's interesting. Her body shape has definitely changed. Well, she's on a desert pick, isn't she? Anyway, we've had a couple, loads of more emails about... We have, isn't we? Well, it's just such a huge, huge thing, I just want to talk about cake because Peter's been in touch.

Am I allowed to know what you said about Karen Brady before? Was it along the same kind of lines? Actually, I tell you what it was because there was an email and I'm not sure whether to read this or not, but I think I will read it because I think there'll be people in agreement. It's from, well, keep her anonymous,

about how all television presenters, female, tend to look along the same lines. Karen Brady, of course, is now notable for her appearance on The Apprentice and she's a noted executive in the world of football, which is a tough place for a woman to be, we should say, and she's done very well in that arena. But our anonymous correspondent says

that she can't help noticing the number of middle-aged female television presenters. This is her talking, by the way, this is what she says, who appear to have all gone to the same plastic surgeon or beauty clinic in the belief they can be made to look younger. And she mentions a list of names, and I don't think it's fair to read them out. And I have to say some of them,

I know to be really decent women and actually exceptional broadcasters, so I'm not going to dump on them here. But we all know, Fee, that there is a requirement for women on television to look a certain way. And there's just, it's immensely pressurised, and it's tough.

It is really tough. And I'm sure that Karen Brady operating in a man's world, and she really has operated in a man's world, will have felt the male gaze in a way that many of us can't possibly imagine. But it's just very noticeable, isn't it? She's sitting next to Alan Sugar, who I don't believe.

No, I don't think much. He's not worrying about his upper arms. He might, he might, but I suspect that he wouldn't... Alan, are you worried about your upper arm? It's vulnerable. And it just made me feel a bit sad because, you know, Karen Brady is a very beautiful woman, which is really, really striking.

And successful. And successful. So I just felt sad that she was worried about that. Our correspondent goes on. I think they look weird. It's beyond me. What is wrong with our society? that it cannot accept that everybody's faces change as they get older

and that that is normal. But we've said it before. There are no female newsreaders with grey hair. There are none. Well, there is Anna Jones, isn't there, on Sky? She's got a beautiful grey crop these days. Has she? Okay. All right. But you're right.

On the Great Big Channel, sorry, Sky. Ouch. By the way, we turn down no approaches. We certainly rule nobody out. It's big when we want it to be Too right The reason that women haven't gone great On the whole on television

Is because we, and I'm including us here, We wouldn't let them And shame on us And you and I both die our hair Absolutely And when I did think about growing mine out Which I decided I wouldn't do about four weeks ago I became unhappy with it

So what a hypocrite But I'm in the mix We're all in the mix we're all a part of this. And to our correspondent, I absolutely hear what you're saying. And she says, look, I'm 62. I'd be the first to admit I'm wearing all those years and I don't care. I have the great good fortune to be fit and well and happy. And if anybody else subjects to how I look, it's their problem, not mine. I noticed that a few men on TV are also having treatments, but not nearly as many. And those who do look equally ridiculous. And she's right. I know that men on television increasingly are under very, very, very similar pressures. Yeah. What are we all doing? It's stupid, isn't it?

Because I hate to break it to you, we are all mortal. And there ain't nothing you can do about that. Yeah. Not a thing. I wonder when the age is at which you kind of think, I've just gone beyond being able to reduce age in my appearance. Or do you think that once that bug gets in your head, even when you're 90, you'll want to look 89?

My mom, when she was in hospital in her final weeks, was very chuffed. And someone said to her, oh, Maureen, I can't believe you're over 90. She told me about it. If I'm honest, it's one of the last things she ever said to me. And it's actually, isn't that, that's so illustrative, isn't it? Yes, yeah. I mean, she always, she loved being flattered about, relatively speaking,

how young she looked, and she did. But it's crazy, isn't it? It's absolutely dark. Well, maybe it is time for us to really, really think this through, and especially because we're about to become a bit more visual in our job and just go, okay. that. You know, I will let my grey hair show and, you know, I'm going to wear all of my sleeveless tops even as, I don't know, I mean, who's feeling uncomfortable? Who would look at a clip of us on

YouTube and see an inch of grey roots on your hair and a bit of flab on my upper arms and have their day ruined? Actually, it might be enhanced, ironically. I don't think anyone would, they wouldn't go, we go, oh my goodness, I'm so devastation. It's absolutely be terrible. I'm going to have to take time off with my mental health. Can we just briefly go back to Peter who's emailed about cake? Yes, let's. I did say that carrot cake was the armpit of cakes.

Oh God, no, not this again. No, I stand by it. Some people like it, some people don't. I used to love carrot cakes so much, says Peter, I convinced my fiancé to have it at our wedding. Good for you. Ah, the marriage proved to be a total disaster. Oh, bad for you. So now I question my judgment

in cakes. But if carrot cake is... Because that's the lesson to take from that, Peter. Well done, Peter. But if carrot cake is the armpit, what would be, he asks, a dirty soul of the footcake. Well, he's got an answer for us. He says he votes for something I've never heard of.

The classic American sheet cake. You ever heard of this? Shick cake. Yes, available in every supermarket. It's a fat slab of sponge in vanilla or chocolate, both of which taste exactly the same. It's decorated with a thwart. thick layer of oily frosting designed to absorb lurid dyes that will instantly stay in clothing,

skin, in fact, anything. The trick with eating sheet cake is to open your mouth as little as possible, lest your companions see your mouth dyed electric blue, red or purple. Just the thing for young children and nostalgic adults. Serve them real cake and they'll be disappointed, says Peter. Thank you for that. What a terrible thing that sounds. I think it's just quite kind of, it's quite, it's quite bland, isn't it? I just can't imagine it. Then just enhanced by the colour. It sounds disgusting. We'll stick with the food.

This is Bean Burgers in from Sandra. All your chat about Burger King Beanburgers took me back to my university days when vegetarian options were very few and far between. Hopefully you'll both remember the days of buying a newspaper and collecting the little coupons which would entitle you to a free burger once you had three tokens glued onto the correct slip

cut out of the paper. I do, Sandra. One of my friend's brothers was a manager in a different Burger King and would send my friend extra slips for us to claim our free burgers. That is illegal, son. That's very wrong. As I was and still am a vegetarian, I would order a double mushroom whopper without the burger,

mushrooms, lettuce and cheese. Obviously this had to be cooked to order and then relayed over the loud speaker to much amusement. With reference to a place in the sundown, this is fascinating. information here. This was another blow hearing this. It really was. One of my friends appeared on the show about 15 years ago. She went to a travel show like the Ideal Home Exhibition where the TV company had a stand. She was asked to fill out a form with reference to the show saying that she was looking for a home in Spain. She was contacted by the TV team a few weeks later who thought Spain was a bit boring. And would she be interested in going to Lanzarotti? To add variety to the show. My friend and her husband, had a lovely holiday looking around other people's houses with absolutely no intention of buying something in a country.

She wasn't interested in moving to. And Sandra ends by saying, I feel fee spoiled a bake-off winner a few years ago. I stand to be corrected. So it has previous form in spoiling shows for people. That's my special talent. I think it was Prue Leith. It wasn't me.

Yes, I think we just reported the actions of Prue Leith. But that would be spoiling it too. I suppose that would, in all fairness. So I'm going to take that hit, Sandra. So that's intriguing, isn't it? the people actually have no intention of going, which would explain why quite a lot of people are looking around places they'd never thought of buying a property in

with their entire life savings, which always seems a bit bold. It does seem bold. But look, we're knocking this show, and it forms actually quite a vital part of my evening. Almost never miss it. We've given it a great deal of publicity. And actually, particularly in the winter, it's really lovely. especially the end with the little glasses of orange juice.

Huge glasses of orange juice, though. And just those really, really weird tables just perched in the middle of nowhere. I always just think with them downing the orange juice. I wonder, is that wise? You'll be up in the night. Well, I don't know. I think it's probably filmed at about 8 o'clock in the morning, isn't it? And they're always in very summary clothes, but definitely shivering.

They're very, very cold. Should we do something joyful? This email from Christine, because this is great, isn't it? And we briefly mentioned Lord of the Flies, which is there's an amazing BBC adaptation on The Eye Player now, a new one with some cracking young actors in it. But it's just a hard watch because I just find the whole thing so depressing.

And we have been alerted by Christine to the story of the Tonga Castaways. I thought you might like this story of what happened when a real-life group of boys got trapped on an island for months after I heard your discussion of the new Lord of the Flies yesterday. It is a much more hopeful story, she says, and it is, isn't it? Yes, it's amazing.

It happened. It really did happen. In the June of 1965, six Tongan teenagers set out on an adventure that turned into a real-life Lord of the Flies. They got stranded on an uninhabited island for more than a year, but they survived. They helped each other out. They organised themselves. They got water sorted out, so freshwater.

was a luxury in this environment, but they innovated by capturing rainwater and they did other stuff, they got food, they got fire organised. And I love the description of what they needed to do. Make sense of this sentence as a land lover. The initial ember, this is

in terms of getting a fire going, the initial ember was birthed using sea hibiscus for a fire plow. How much of that sentence do you understand? The initial ember was birthed using sea. No. I'm afraid none of it has landed.

I loved it. He wrote this article. What is it? Actually, it's on the website which I confess is new to me. Desert Island Survival.com. Wow, busy. Is it, though? Because if you are stranded on a desert island

and you need to, you know, look at the tips, you're going to have to have bloody good Wi-Fi. You'll have to have upgraded to your premiere in to get this. Speedy, speedy, speedy Wi-Fi. Really speedy Wi-Fi. But the point of the pieces is actually to say how well they all got on. on and they didn't fall out with each other and they were there for each other's emotional

needs as well. And then just by sheer luck there was a fisherman passing by who saw the fire on the beach and just thought that's extraordinary, better go and investigate and so he saved them apart from anything else, the joy of

those families for the boys coming back and they just would have assumed that they died at sea, wouldn't they? They were at boarding school together and they decided they were a bit fed up a boarding school. so they nicked a boat. Which they shouldn't have done, of course, health and safety. But nevertheless, it is a brilliant story.

And this article, which features on this obscure website, Desert Island Survival.com, does say, and I don't know whether this is true, that William Golding, the author of Lord of the Flies, was a jaded alcoholic who didn't like children and had little faith in humanity. So that may be why his version of what would happen when a group of very young children get stranded on a desert island

was so unutterably bleak and depressing. Anyway, I do want to know the point of that website because it is quite niche. I mean, do you consult it if you fear you might one day get stranded? You're consulting it when you want a story of uplifting survival, surely. I don't know. Surely, surely.

I know that the World Wide Web is full of niches, but that does strike me as being, you know, quite a niche niche. Well, let's do a little bit of digging around. You've watched one episode of Lord of the Flies, aren't you? Are you going to watch more? I don't think so, no. Actually, I might watch the very end, only because I can't remember what happens in the end.

I don't think it's good. And it's not because it's not good that I'm not watching it, because it is good, but I just felt so worn out by the story. I think at the moment we're all just feeling a bit, oh, God, you know, bring me some joy. There was a lot of joy on my Northern Line tube this morning because a woman got on with a baby in a sling and it's one of those cracking babies

with an absolutely fantastic head of hair that was standing bolt upright in a kind of mohican. And this little soul will never know how much joy she brought to a carriage full of people who were on their way to work and just wearing it. And she was wearing her hair with, I have to say, a degree of pride. She took in the admiring glances and everybody had a kind of half-smart.

on their face because you just need that kind of thing. You so do. She was so sweet. I do think we probably have some mirth mileage in our oversized pets because we've got that picture up on the Instagram of Winston

the 12 stone hound. All 12 stone I mean Winston I don't know whether I wouldn't judge that's a little hefty so hefty. I just can't believe he's real and then we've got the tiny glisk-glis

and I think we do need some more. I've got some appalling fat cat pictures. I might pop those up there. Which of your animals is the chunk of? Oh, Cool's in his time. Cool cat has been massively commented upon fat. By the vet? Yes.

Well, he was the one. So I took him to the vet once and the vet said, this is terrible. Your cat is so overweight, not the best of it. And then I took him back for something else and there was a lovely, lovely vet who was Italian. And he's fat and happy. He's fat and happy.

So that is the saying that we have in our house. Right, of course. Atenna, upy. So we leave him to it now. He's slimmed down a bit because he's quite old. And, you know, I'm sure it's very bad for your pets. Of course it is. But also, it's funny.

We know it's cheering. He's sleeping well and not agonising about the state of his upper paws. He's really not. He's just going for it. He's not bothered at all. Can I give you an anosol update? God, I mean, how many other podcasts include questions like this? Yes, please.

Well, I did episode two of betrayal on I-TV. And I think that John's haemorrhoids, they might be pointing to a slightly more intrinsic part of the plot. That's all I'll say, James. What do you mean? No, I don't want to ruin it for people. I'm in trouble for my spoilers. Oh, yeah, you are.

Yeah, yeah, okay. But he does, in episode two, he does pursue the part of, piles. Oh, my God, almighty. What kind of a show is this? I don't know. Because I'm probably not going to stick with the rest of it. All right.

Omed Jalili is playing an Iranian general in a move that central casting couldn't even have made. And it's just a bit too much. Okay. Right. We should say we do have a guest. You'll be relieved to hear in this edition of the podcast. And we've had a lot of, you know, tough subjects. And we're still getting your Epstein emails.

And by the way, keep them coming. this story is not going away. But our guest is Lisa McGee, creator of Derry Girls, and her new show is out on Thursday, and it's called How to Get to Heaven from Belfast. And Lisa was every bit as lovely and funny and just decent as I'd hoped.

So I think she will delight you. You rejoin us after the Anusole episode. There's been a production meeting coordinated by Eve. I think in a very grown-up way, and we've brought together again our mental selves. Sure. And I'm now going to read a scripted introduction to our guest. Oh, good.

Settle down, everybody. This is, I was, you know, I had many happy times at the British Broadcasting Corporation, but one of the things I never really excelled at was reading the script, even the ones I'd written, it wasn't that great, which is why I'm so much happier in a world where I don't have to be quite so strict

with myself. Can you nod along a bit more enthusiastically? Crack on. She just fallen asleep. If you're a fan of the brilliant channel for comedy, Derry Girls, you might imagine the writer and creator of it would be spirited and funny,

and you'd be absolutely right. Lisa McGee's new show, How to Get to Heaven from Belfast, premieres on Netflix this Thursday. Now, it's part supernatural thriller, part highly amusing crime caper, and stars Irish acting royalty, who are clearly enjoying themselves

hugely and there's fantastic scenery. Lisa told me where the show's fantastic, no, I've said fantastic again bear with, Lisa told me where the show's great title comes from. A long time ago, like years ago I was actually a student at Queen's University in Belfast

a street preacher handed me a flyer with that on it and I kind of put up my pocket I just loved the I just thought it would be so great for a comedy, you know, it's such a kind of interesting mysterious title for something

so I kind of kept it in my locked away absolutely well it's golden and did you get you didn't go to the meeting that the flyer was advertising or anything like that. That wasn't my vibe at university really did it no

okay so what year were you at university let's just put this all in place so I would have been at Queens from 2000 I guess yeah yeah and I did a drama degree there we were the first drama degree the first time they offered drama.

Oh, really? It was my year. Yeah. Okay. It's been a great time. Right. And so you were considered quite unusual then. Because I did English university and I remember the drama students were at the other end of

the corridor and they just seemed to be having a better time than the rest of us and they wore leg warmers. I mean, this is the 80s. There was a kind of glamour attached to them that there just wasn't to the English students. I found it like I loved it and I had a great time but I couldn't act at all. I definitely knew I wanted to write going under that court and but it was very performance focused. So like I wasn't I got a lot of kind of parts that were third servant

from the left sort of thing for about three years and then kind of slowly built up a small writing portfolio I guess Okay so did you write this or parts of this then or was it dairy girls you were thinking about? What was going on? Well I wrote a play at Junie with the same title but it was very different

I guess it was still about a group of young women then and then I wrote plays for ages and then started, moved on to TV and wrote a lot of different stuff. I always said I would never write about the troubles and then it was like, you know, ironic that that's

exactly what Derry Gears was but through a very different lens, you know. So yeah, I'd kind of come I think I probably had the idea for this a while ago somewhere in my head and then, you know, it all came together when it was, I think I needed

to be a bit older to write this because of the the characters and the stage, the rat in life and stuff. Yeah, we'll talk about Derry Girls a little bit later because it's just a series that just means so much, I think, to so many people. But the characters in this one are, well, they've moved on a bit, they're 38. I mean, they're sort of heading towards 40, yeah. And there's quite a lot going on.

So just set those characters up. There are three women, all very different. Yes, so one is a, there's three friends in school. Now they're 38. One's a kind of chaotic, but very clever television, quite successful. One is a glamorous, stressed out mum of three. And the other is a, I would describe Dara as the moral compass of the show. She's a care for her mum. Who isn't that ill? Who isn't that ill? Yes, exactly. She's just fantastic. It really makes me laugh. Yeah, Carol.

I think Dara's a need to be needed is one of her big qualities. And she's also quite religious, you know, quite a nervous. She's still in her teenage bedroom. I think she's quite afraid of do you know? But the three of them are very close. And they discover that an old pal from childhood, who they haven't seen in 20 years, has passed away. They decide to go to her wake and all is not, as it seems. And they get drawn under this kind of crazy, eerie journey

that takes them all over Ireland and beyond, really. And that's what's so good about this. I've only seen two episodes. I think there are eight altogether, aren't they? Yeah, okay. It actually comes out on Thursday, the 12th, so people can gird their loins until then. But let me tell you, it's worth waiting for.

it is a comedy but there's also a sort of supernatural element it's quite frightening as well yeah what kind of mood are you trying to create here well weirdly like one of the big reference points was Scooby Doe

you know okay I never liked Scooby I didn't like any of it I didn't like all those funny fairgrounds but yeah I know you mean just this idea that there was something that felt creepy but actually

like any supernatural element in this is coming from a very real thing you know like they're haunted by what they did they're haunted by their younger selves they're haunted by the things they didn't do so I like the idea of doing that kind of spun on a supernatural story

but it feels quite creepy yeah in places the tone of it's quite spooky I would say it is well the shades of the Adams family in a couple of scenes certainly but it's also a caper it also properly makes you laugh out And there's also, we need to say, there's a male love interest figure who, I mean, let's just be honest, I think one of my children happened to see one of the previews I was watching the weekend.

Oh, who's that? Well, it's a young man. It's perfectly appropriate for you to find him attractive, but I certainly can't myself. I mean, and he is both a mechanic and a guard, an Irish police officer. That's right. Now, tell me, does he, I mean, is he throughout the series? He is. So he's the big love interest for one of the characters. And yeah, I think that there's a lot of...

It is a big adventure and there's a lot of sort of wish fulfillment in that I would love to go on the road with my friends and solve a mystery. You know, a lot of women of my age listen to a load of true crime and really believe I think they would have a good crack at sorting it all out. The reality of that is that I think me and my friends would be as chaotic and awful as this group of women. Not brilliant drivers. No.

Not brilliant drivers, not brilliant detectives either. But they kind of learn to get better and they use their real life skills. So the fact that Robin's a mum, she starts to really use those instincts later in the series. The fact that she's very creative, she starts to lean under that to solve this thing. And Dara has a very strong moral core and that's helpful to them. So I think they learned to play to their strengths towards the end. But it's still quite messy. Yeah, it's gloriously messy.

Cisha's character is the one. She's a very successful TV crime show writer. Yes. I mean, are you conscious that maybe having a character who's a TV writer is hints of disappearing up your artistic fundament? What would you say about that? More than hints, I would say. And also, like, I was at one point just writing, like,

writing long speeches where I was just venting about my own frustrations with the industry and my two brilliant executive producers Liz Luyn and Caroline Leda who I've worked with for years we're like, at least you know we need to cut all this this is not, you know, it's not part of the story nor is it funny, so like let's just lose this. But yeah, totally, it was sort of irresistible

to be able to get to rent and rave a bit. Well, I love the bits where Sisha often references that she lives in London and Robin in particular, you don't. You don't live in London. So just tell me about, I mean, there is obviously an antipathy between, I mean, I get it completely, why wouldn't there be? But is that something that crops up a lot with people who like to big foot it when they get back to Northern Ireland and talk about their crazy lives in London? I think it's a wee bit that writer's thing of you don't really feel you fit on anywhere.

You know, when you're in London, you're banging on about being Irish all the time and when you're at home, you're banging on about how you worked in London, you know. And I think, but I also, I also just feel there was really a point for me. in London for a long time where I was filming everything at home. And it was all the wrong way round. And it was like kind of, that was Sirius' story there is true of my, of what happened me. So I liked being able to shine a light on that a little bit in a fun way too. So when you are in Northern Ireland, because you are living back there now.

I live there now, yes. Yeah. Do you cringe when you hear yourself saying when I was in London? Well, I don't get away with anything. I tried to change my drink order once. And my friends, who I've been friends with since school, like you'd have thought I committed a crime. They were like, who do you think you are?

What did you ask for? It was like a spicy margarita or something. They were like, should you only drink Prosecco? What's happened here? So yeah, I don't think I'd get away with it. I think, God, you're so right. I mean, there's no, Prosecco's a terrible drink,

and spicy margarita is the absolute champagne of drinks. I mean, I know that doesn't work, but I've said it anyway. Yeah, so there's also in this, show, I love the references to the fact that people who live in Derry are very different from people who live in Belfast now but we're all very parochial. I'm from Liverpool, we're very rude about people

from Manchester and vice versa. Is it the same? Is that the same dynamic? I think there's just, I think everywhere has that relationship with another town everywhere in the world, you know? So I think that's a sort of very specific thing that people, you don't need to be Irish even to enjoy that joke.

Because I find that out from Derry Gears and everyone has their Belfast or Straban or whatever it is, you know. So I really lean under that now you know, being very specific about stuff like that. The cast list for this series is just astonishing.

Just wet people's appetites. Just tell them who's in this. So we have... There's so many. We have Ardle O'Hanlon, Michelle Farley. We have Sirius and Monica Jackson, Emmett Scanlan. We have the three leads, obviously. Sheney Keenan, Keenan, and Rocheon

and Rohing-Galher. there's just there's lots and lots of actors in it just because it goes everywhere and you're meeting new people all the time I particularly enjoy Cheney Kienham partly because she's in Unforgotten which I really love but she doesn't there's not a lot of option there

she just looks very tense in a coat very serious yeah no I mean she does she visits some very difficult crimes scenes was it a relief to her to be able to just I mean, she's still investigating a crime, of course, but it's on a slightly different level. I mean, I think she needs a mom as well,

and I think she really enjoyed, like I certainly enjoyed writing those bits where she's just being very stressed. And she's such an incredible comic. She's an incredible actor, she can do anything. But I think I've worked with her in a few comedies, and I think to be able to stretch that muscle about her, come back to the silly stuff is very enjoyable, you know.

It's certainly enjoyable to watch. I think every mother loves the bit. She just, because she's investigating a crime, she just quite often has to leave hubby in charge of the kid. And he always looks a little bit. Stressed. That's stressed out and somewhat taken aback. Yeah.

And you're right, is that Thelma and Louise, we're on the road and we're going to do something together feel about it? Yeah, and sort of tuning under that energy they had when they were teenagers because that was a big thing. You know when you were about sort of, he didn't know what was ahead of you, so he were a bit braver, but more naive maybe. and I think just they need that kind of, they need to rely on that teenage spirit nearly

to solve this thing. You mentioned your friends who took the proverbial because you changed a drink order, but do you honestly think that you ever laugh again in the way that you did with your friends when you were a teenager? I sometimes think about this myself and get a bit moredly. Yeah, I know exactly what.

Like my friends that I'm still friends with make me laugh more than anyone or anything ever. Well, they're still, we are all still incredibly ridiculous figures I think but yeah those days were you and it could be like I remember one day in school a chair squeaked like that was literally the height of the comedy and we laughed for hours like I thought this is how I'm going to die

and let's stop laughing at it just that real really giddy silliness I miss do you ever go back to your old school is that possible I'm actually I'm going back soon I'm going to go and I think talk about writing and stuff like that. And they're proud of you, obviously. Yeah, I mean, I don't think they'd be too thrilled by some of the swearing, some of the two, some of the...

But, like, yeah, yeah, I hope it kind of encourages all their young gears to get under comedy writing, you know. I would love that. Well, that's what's so refreshing about this show and about Derry Girls is that there are, I mean, women are sold often comedy by men that features men's view of what women might say and how they might behave. I mean, has that been a long-term frustration for you,

or did you just accept it, do you think? I mean, I certainly always felt like I'd never saw myself represented and my friends, like, you know, like being the really, really chaotic, messy, one causing the problem a lot of the time. I love that they're right at the centre of the pickle, as I call it, that these women in the derogers were too. But, you know, I did have, there were things like I. Fab, for me, growing up, you know, like, I did definitely know that women were funny.

I was surrounded by funny women. So I kind of just maybe had never seen the Irish version of that, you know. When you first showed Derry Girls to, I don't know how it starts, do you show it to Commissioner or an agent or... I'd written a script and showed it to Channel 4, yeah. I think that's how it worked, yeah. Right. And they see a comedy featuring young girls and, of course, the notable boy at a school. school in Derry during the Troubles

and it's a comedy. Yeah. And what did they say to you? I mean, to be fair, to Channel 4, they got it immediately. They've read the script and it just clicked and they understood how it could work. But I think they also understood if it was to work,

I'd have to have ownership. It was so particular of everything, you know. And, you know, which isn't unusual in comedy. I'm on set all the time and I'm very involved, but I think that that's keen of how most sitcoms work. But yeah, they were very, very supportive and they really got the vision. You know, they were incredible.

And to be clear, to anybody who hasn't seen it, you're not laughing at the troubles, but you are, well, what are you doing? You're celebrating the community that existed at that time. Yeah, the ordinary people and just the everyday stuff that had to go on. but I think often when I'm writing something I'll have to have a line in my head

that sums it up and my line for derogers was you know yeah there's the troubles but being a teenager that's the real troubles do you know that the idea that this all paled and the insignificance compared to trying to find a boyfriend

trying to get your exam done that spot that was driving up yeah exactly so that was the sort of guiding thing for me was these very dramatic very selfish teenage girls who were just glorious to write. Yeah, and

just so navel-gazing. Which we absolutely all were, I assume, educated by nuns. Yes. Right. And these are the nuns that are welcoming you back to the school. I don't think there's any nuns that teach there now. I think that those days are kind of

gone, although I'm not sure, I'm not sure, but certainly in my day there were a lot of nuns teaching there. Okay, so I'm bound to ask you which one influenced the Sister Michael. It was a combo of a few. I mean, they were all terrifying. Do you know, they all terrified me, but they were very, now you look back and I go,

you know, they were trying to get a lot of boisterous working class girls to, you know, get really good exam results. It probably wasn't easy. They really wanted at that skill the best for us, I think, but they were incredibly strict, you know, and incredibly scary. And did you get teaching about sex and relationships or anything of that? Oh, God, no. No. No. Oh God, no.

Not at all, no. Right, so you were left to fathom that out on your own. To work it out with your friends, probably get a lot of stuff wrong as well. Yeah, just to sort of try and figure it out. Yeah, there was none of that. Right. I'm sure they were very wise simply to avoid the subject. So I think people are going to absolutely love this. What's next after this? Are you going to do something completely different? Have you got another great title in the mix?

Yeah, I want to do another comment. comedy. Like, I want to do another, like, half hour. Do you know, you always want what you don't have because I've written the hour long, thrillery thing now that I wanted to do free. I'm like, I'm like, maybe I'll do just a normal comedy again. But I'd love to do more of this if people watch it. I'd love to do in all the series of this. So we'll just have to see. They're going to investigate another murder. Yeah. You'll get themselves in more trouble. Yeah. Okay. Well, no, I'll definitely watch that. The beautiful scenery, by the way, is exquisite. I know you go abroad at one point. I've only seen the first two, so is it Donagall that they go. so that just looks wild and absolutely amazing. Yeah, we go to Donagall and all around the north coast of Ireland and Belfast and yeah, yeah, everywhere we go everywhere, basically, yeah. Okay, so if all you want is a tourist guide to Northern Ireland,

you should watch this programme, but you'll get much more out of it than that. My favourite character, I've got to be honest, is the more than taciturn waitress. She's great. Well, have you worked as a waitress? I very, very briefly, when I was a teenager and had a side step that and be working shop.

then, like, it's hard work. Yeah. Yeah, but you wouldn't have been that, but not as bad as her. I don't think I'd have been rude. Yeah, I just have been really, really bad and slow. Okay, well, that's infinitely preferable. Lisa McGee, who is a very decent woman, and that is a, I would say, I would say, Fee, it's unmissable.

Brilliant. Yeah, it's very, very unusual and extremely entertaining. And it has, I have to say, how to get to heaven from Belfast has got to be one of the titles. It's a good title. It's really good title. And tomorrow we have Zach Goldsmith. We do. We do. And he's going to be talking about his sculptures

and we very much hope that he's done something for us that we could perhaps sell. Do you think he might have brought a little one in? We do, I mean, Eve, to give her credit, she does specialise in fabulous guests. And a variety. She does. Such a variety. And a variety.

So the wonderful Lisa McGee today, the equally wonderful Zach Gold. old Smith tomorrow and on Thursday the novelist Jenny Godfrey who's novel the barbecue at number nine I think is the title of it that's right isn't it um is set on live aid day so I think it'll bring back memories for lots of people and she's a she's a good woman and it's a great book excellent so we will join you again tomorrow we very much hope we're jane and feet at timesdot radio in the meantime keep all of your emails coming some of you have sent such thoughtful emails about epstein and all of that yuck and we are hanging on to them and

Yeah, we haven't abandoned it. We just thought we might have a day off today. But we will absolutely return to them. Because it's just going to go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on. Yeah. As it should. Yep. It's not resolved.

It's not looking like it's going to get resolved. Right. Enjoy your evening. If you're listening to this ahead of an evening, if it's the middle of the night. I'm so sorry. Just change your sheets. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with Jane and

Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online, on DAB, or on the free Times Radio app. Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury, and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.