Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Heartache? Have you tried tuna and Prosecco? (with Jon Batiste)

Episode Date: March 31, 2026

Fi joins today’s episode with a berry medley; do excuse her and her tart fruits. There are also some parish notices, discussion about the joys of parish notices, thoughts on robot carers, stacks of tuna, and Ryan Gosling’s hair in space. Plus, Oscar- and Grammy-winning musician Jon Batiste discusses his upcoming KOKO London shows. You can check out our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@OffAirWithJaneAndFi Our new playlist 'Coiled Spring' is up and running: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4tmoCpbp42ae7R1UY8ofzaOur next book club pick is 'A Town Like Alice' by Nevil Shute. Our most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producers: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Do you mind if I open my berry medley? Well, as soon as I saw that, I thought that's, I just would never buy that fit. No. What's in it? So I never usually buy, it's fruit in a pot. I don't buy either because I can handle fruit. You know what I mean? I don't need somebody else to have picked it and polished it and chopped it and all of that stuff for me. But I am slightly grinding towards the Easter break.

And I looked at that this morning and it called. to me with all of its undient colours of vitamin C. Beautiful colours, to be fair. So I'm just going to plonk it there and if you'd like to help yourself as long as your fingers are clean. Are your fingers clean? I very much doubt it and you're absolutely fine because I can't think of anything I want less than soft fruit

at this time in the morning or indeed at any time of the morning or any time of the day or indeed night. Now we've got... Do you not eat soft fruit at all? No. Not if I can help it. Is that why you always had to crunch the pink lady apples? Yeah, I don't mind but I haven't had a pink lady for getting on for over a year and a half. Is that because of your teeth?

They must be careful because I think we've advertised them. I love pink ladies. Can we just do before we get on? Because we are... Whoa. Yeah, it's a little... God, that was a tart. A tart.

A tart. Exactly. Very tart. I love the word tart for things that are simply too acidic. Is that why women are called tarts? Or is that because they're a bit saucy and sweet? A slappers and some of them may have enjoyed sex, which as we know, shouldn't happen. Right.

Let's just bring me in. Actually, no, I am doing. Let's talk about the things we need to talk about. Yes, periton. Yes, because we are in danger of forgetting, and we shouldn't do that. So, Monday's episode was visualised. So if you haven't seen it,

you'd like to just have a gander at how all this operates. And we have got, we should say, we have got this very sweet studio now that they've put for us, put in for us. Is that, what's the right? because does it just sit there waiting for us or is it used for something else? I think it's very much built around us.

Okay. I want to say we can fill the space in a creative sense. Now I think they've literally, they've created a backdrop, haven't they? It's just a backdrop on a green screen. Okay, right. So they press a button and talk sport are in there before us because sometimes on the auto queue,

we don't have auto queue. But sometimes on the auto queue, we can see they've been talking, haven't they, about flat back fours? Yes. About far and difficult areas of football. and then they press a button and our fire comes on

I think the bookshelves do you have to be placed in person don't they Eve? Yeah because he's got a big IKEA bag haven't you that you have to cart all of the pictures of our pets around it. It's very sweet.

You can speak Eve, tell us about your big bag. It's got an enormous IKEA bag with lots of photos of your pets and frames and I do worry that one of them is going to smash one of these days but so far so cute

Did you ever have a careers teacher? This is what I always I think you're multitasking fabulously here. There's nothing to be ashamed of at all. You can head off into the wilds of set design, can't you? Anyway, if this has intrigued you sufficiently, and I really hope it has, you can have a look at yesterday's episode of Offair on YouTube. Now, what do you look for on YouTube?

What do I look for on YouTube? No, no, no. If you're looking for us, I dread to think. I was going to say. God, this was slick. Blimey. That's taken me by surprise. I better clear my phone.

What do you look for? You look for Off Air with Jane and Fee. And it'll be there. Yeah, we've got our own channel, haven't we? We've got a channel. And what? As in the description. And it's in the description.

Right. So if you are listening to this, you can look at the description and then very much like getting off the train and onto a temporary replacement bus service, you can go look at YouTube. Think of it that way. Right, I think we've got away with that.

and you're now totally informed about the visualised version of Ophair which is available on YouTube. And I know one of our very kind listeners rated and said, you know, don't worry about dressing exactly the same because Alistair and Rory probably don't phone each other beforehand,

you know, to check they're not wearing the same thing. And it is very true, it is absolutely true. But yesterday we did dress the same. The problem is we just look like we're part of a box set. And I think it just upsets both of us actually. Anyway, have a look, because it might be moderately diverting. It's quite a long episode yesterday,

so you get bang for your buck, and you get a good gander at the visuals as well. Just go for it. Just try it once, see how you get on with it. Now, at the other parish notice, we've got two more. One is Book Club, which we're going to record tomorrow. Yes, we are. Which is... A town like Alice by Nevel Shood, and we're going to be joined by Laura Hackett,

who's just brilliant. She's, I think she's deputy literary editor of the Times and Sunday Times, knows her literary onions. and I have so enjoyed I've already had a look at some of the emails that have come in on this book and I enjoyed reading it too there's quite a lot to say about a town like Alice

and quite a lot to say about Never Shoot so I'm really looking forward to that and that's tomorrow and then it'll be available towards the end of the week. Is it going out Good Friday? Yes, it's a good Friday treat for you. I think it's one of those books that a book club really benefits

from including in its roster because we're going to have to talk about all of the politics and the changing times and also we can talk about the story. And I've gone back to it and really thought about it, Jane, which doesn't happen all that often with books. Although, interestingly, it does seem to happen with Flesh by David Soli. More conversations with people who've read that book than any other recent book.

I know I started it and then I gave up and I must go back to it. I've got a copy story. Yeah, I think you should actually. The first chapter definitely doesn't relay quite how engrossing the rest of the book's going to be. I think maybe you have to do two or three chapters before it really holds. hooks you in. But I'd be interested in your thoughts about it too. Okay, I'll try. I'm still reading Stig Abel's book. He's our guest on Wednesday, he's coming on, and you'll also hear him on the podcast. You've read his previous books, haven't you? And I'm new to his series of books.

So that's later in the week, and we've also got William Boyd on this week. We have. Can I just say about Stig's books, do you not agree that Jake is a great character to have been created. I like him. I like his take on the world. This is the central character, Jake Jackson, isn't it? Jake Jackson, he's often described as being quite hairy. Now, did he become hairy? Did he start off hairy? He's always been hairy.

Okay. I picture him as perhaps having a top knot. But am I wrong about that? Oh, I don't. I know. Okay, well, we can ask you later in the week. And the third, important thing, is the playlist, which is available now on Spotify. It's coiled spray. and there's some spring-like seasonal change crackers for you just to take you through the Easter weekend and put a bit of pep in your step.

And it is, it's a very, very good playlist. I've enjoyed it normally. It's quite short playlist. It's short as well. So if you need to break off because you've got lots of religious things to do, then that's fine. It will allow you to do that.

I can't remember which was my contribution. What did you put on it? I put the real thing, you to me, everything. Oh, okay. Did I put Diana Ross Tame Impala on? Turn up the sunshine. It is a cracker. There are some goodies. So you'll find that on Spotify. I think that's all the platforms covered, isn't it? Wow. It is. Anywhere else we can go.

I used to really, really enjoy parish notices and church as a youngster because we did go to church every week. It was a bit of a break, wasn't it? Oh, it was such a break. And also this incredible, so we were very young at the time. We were living in rural Hampshire. and it was just a delicious insight into the other things going on in the village who was getting married. Yes, it's the bands. Does that still happen?

A bands are read out. So that was intriguing. But then Parish notices, it always just spoke of other times, other groups that were meeting, other things that were being done. And it was lovely, and also because it wasn't the Nicene Creed. I'm not worthy to pick enough. What is it? I'm not worthy enough to pick up the crumbs under your table.

I mean, it was, you definitely want to. Get on those rollers. They were very much on your knees there, weren't you? They were quite bleak those services. They were bleak, Jane. Because I used to go to church too, because of Sunday school. Yeah. We only sort of have to sit through half the church service.

And then you were allowed to head off to kiddie club. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, I suppose we must have been old enough not to go to the kids club. Or actually, there probably just weren't enough kids in church for there to be a kids' club. so we used to sit through it and it just didn't have enough and I don't mind saying this

because I'm not criticising people who've got faith but it didn't have enough in it for anybody I think under 20 to really key in and think yeah I'm represented here it was practically in Latin all of the way through Jane I think I've been most recently to Catholic services

not because I'm a Catholic but for things like christenings and things like that And they, I mean, look, there's plenty you could say about the Catholic Church. But I think in terms of a community and acceptance of different sorts of people, including, by the way, small children and noises and things like that, they are better. And I'm going to say, more joyful services, the ones I've been to. This is lately.

Joyful's a good word. There's just a bit. But look, I haven't been to the Church of England for a long time because I just, for whatever reason I haven't. But I don't, I wish it all the best. And congratulations to us. our new female Archbishop Cantabron as well I hope she does some updating actually

well yeah but good if she did shall we move seamlessly into a little cultural conversation about Hail Mary which is a film project Hail Mary which I saw at the weekend now Eve is also Do you know what I'm going to sit back and eat my tart fruit You go for you through and listen to you and Eve

well Eve and I we both quite enjoyed it but Claire has has emailed to say I felt compelled to write to let you know my own experience of Hail Mary at my small local cinema this is not unconnected to the Catholicism reference I made earlier. It is produced in its own way this podcast, isn't it? Nope. I settled in to watch the film,

looking forward to seeing Ryan in space. The lady next to me opened a family-sized bag of popcorn, made a container out of her jumper. Don't approve of that. And then put the popcorn in and mixed M&Ms and proceeded to eat it all very loudly and regularly filled her jumper with this combination. God Almighty.

This continued for quite a long time. Then she tipped the bag up to empty the final bits out and pulled her jumper up to her face and licked some of the crumbs off. She then ate her twicks. Was this you, Eve? No, but I kind of respect her. Then she spent a while rummaging through her rucksack.

Excuse me? Do you? She sounds like she's having a good talk. Well, she was enjoying herself because she's not finished. After the Twix She spent a while rummaging through her rucks And pulled out some wine gums She then enjoyed these

She then went out We thought it was over But no she'd gone and bought another large bag of popcorn And two glasses of wine She really enjoyed the film Me Not so much What would you have done Well Eve, we've already determined

I thought it was absolutely fine I didn't say that No I think Claire That's a fairly extraordinary set of circumstances Why is popcorn the snack of... I don't know. Because it is loud.

Plain don't get popcorn. No, I don't understand either. And also it's deeply unhygienic. I mean, you're just... No, it is, though, isn't it? Everybody's shoving their hands. You've got a huge pack that you're sharing into the same receptacle

and clawing out bits and pieces. Well, probably no fun for the workers. No, absolutely appalling to clean because it's all over the floor and stuff. I don't get it either. But the whole eating in cinemas thing And I know that we had an email actually when I'd mentioned that we went to one of those cinemas where they serve you actual food

at your chair. And our correspondent said, that's horrendous. But do you know what? It's actually quieter than all of the other snacks that are sold in cinemas. There's a limit to how much noise you can make eating a chicken dippers and a burger. Yeah, no, it is. So everything is on a board. That's a bit stupid, isn't it?

Because it's dark so you can't see things falling off the edge. But it is actually a quieter cinema. than a cinema that has popcorn in it. It's a bit smelly. And rustle-y, you know, M&Ms and family bags. And, yeah, I don't really get that. What I will say is this film a little bit like Marty Supreme, which I didn't enjoy at all.

Project Hail Mary is too long, isn't it, Eve? That was about three climaxes, where I thought it was coming into an end and it didn't. It failed to. Could one of you just give a brief pre-say of what it actually is? Over to you, Eve. Hang on, I'll give you a theme tune. Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do

Simon Gosselin wakes up on a spaceship and it's a mission to save Earth but he's got amnesia He doesn't really know why he's there Is that a spoiler to say? Unfortunately his other crew members Did not survive the trip out there No

That's in the first five minutes So he needs to figure out what he's doing there And how to save Earth Well not just Earth The universe The universe It unfortunately was a one-way ticket on that trip. So he's confronted with that as well.

And then it kind of jumps back to actually what was going on on earth before he went out and how it all came to this point. So you have the two storylines unfolding in front of you. Well, it's a flashback, isn't it? But it's really funny and it's really heartwarming. And it is actually, it's really entertaining. I would agree, I found it really engaging. What I would say is if you're looking for a family film,

and there's no sex in this, there's no violence, It's entirely suitable, but it's just too long. I thought that. It's about two and a half hours. It's nearly three hours. If you've got a couple of wriggly nine, ten-year-olds who love space and who doesn't like Ryan Gosling, I just think they're going to find it too much. I really do. I don't know why they do this. I wouldn't want to put anyone off seeing the film, because if you like Ryan Gosling, you will like it, because he's in practically every scene, isn't he?

Yeah, it was a shift for him. There's some, I don't know what shampoo arrangement he had out there in space, but his hair maintains it's high quality throughout. The only other thought I had was, what has happened to 3D cinemas? Because I feel like 10 years ago, we'd have gone and seen that with the blue and red glasses on,

and it would have been really good because there's lots of cool spacey visuals. Would it, though? I don't know. I did. I was like, I would have loved to have seen this in 3D. What on earth has happened to 3D cinema? It's a very good question. It's a very good question.

Put it out there. Anyway, I hope that's encouraged everybody with an interest in space because space is very much going to be in the news isn't it over the next couple of days? Also, I just want to say about Ryan Gosling

he wears his glasses and he has a very peculiar relationship with them I mean are they reading glasses are they very focals? He sometimes wears them when he's doing close work, sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes they're dangling him his ear.

That's always hanging off his jaw and I thought that was a choice he made as an actor. Yeah, that felt a little bit of an affectation to me and they didn't look very sturdy but they'd been on a hell of a trip these specs

and he kept hold of them right till the bitter end. What happens if you're in space and you lose your glasses? I had exactly that thought because I can't bear it if I lose my specs at home. I mean there are plenty of opportunities, aren't there to buy online, but I don't think they're delivering. I am a bit put off by being two and a half hours long. I mean, I just can't commit to that. My bladder can't commit to that.

My tiny dangling, Nicholas Wichel legs can't commit to that. It's just a lot, isn't it? It is, it's a long time. So I do, I'm going to wait until that one comes out. Oh, it won't be good on the telly. On the telly, well, you should, darling, you should see the size of my television. It's very, very old. Still on the market?

Very far. House, very much still available, everybody. Telly, everyone. Can we shout out to the Artemis 2 crew? Because there's so much that's wrong with America. They're bound to be listening. They're bound to be listening. But, I mean, there's so much wrong with Trump's America.

But sometimes you just. have to honour the genius of the people at NASA and the courage of these people. Did you know that the commander, Reid Wiseman, he's a US Navy test pilot turned astronaut, his wife died of cancer in 2020. He's raised his two teenage daughters alone. He says being a single parent

has been his greatest challenge and the most rewarding phase of his life. But he hasn't shielded his children from the realities of the risk he's about to take, he says. He's been out for a walk with them and told them where his will is, where the trust documents are, told them if anything happens to me, here's what's going to happen to you.

It's a really important part of life, he says. I mean, I don't know what you say about that really, except that he's right. He does go on to say, I wish more families had these conversations. Or didn't send one parent left into space? And some people would also say that. And both of those thoughts went on in my head at the same time. But I do mean it. I do wish them the very best, and I hope it goes really well,

because I'm really interested to find out what they find out. Oh, totally. And we just need to look up. at the stars a bit more often at the moment, don't we? We were in a non-light pollution place at the weekend, and it just takes you somewhere, doesn't it? It's seeing a great big black sky with all of those beautiful, beautiful dots. I saw shooting stars when I was in Greece last summer,

and I'd never seen that before, and it was absolutely incredible. It's magical, isn't it? It is absolutely magical. Now, flashbacks, do you want to sing along to that? Flashback? Well, I think you've done it. Can't beat that. The email is called, I Can Follow William Boyd, but, to my shame, there are some authors whose books I cannot, unless I've watched a screenplay first. Michael Onjartes, is that the right way of saying it?

I think so. Ondarches. My apologies, you've got both versions there. The English patient is one such, but the film remains a favourite. Not so of my ex-husband, who, several years after the incident below, was diagnosed with a degree of prosopagnosia face blindness. On Sunday evening, many... Now, we've met celebrities who claim to have that, don't we? We've met celebrities who have that, Jane.

Go on. We have. One Sunday evening, many Nick Berry moons ago, I'd rented the English patient on VHS. He watched it attentively, but after the scene where the main characters have sheltered in their jeeps during a sandstorm, announced he needed to visit the bathroom.

I offered to make coffee, so I switched off the video and the screen returned to the TV. I returned with the coffee to find my ex, watching the set. Oh, he's watching heartbeat, I thought, I put the mugs down. He's watching it very closely. And he never watches heartbeat. Then I realized. Before I could say anything, my ex

pointed at Nick Berry and asked, is this the same chap that was in the Jeep? I shook my head. We never returned to the film. And for the rest of our time together, we never rented a film. His plot included flashbacks. Even characters changing their clothes could cause problems. He's repeated this story to family

and friends, and we still laugh about it. please don't mention my name. Prosopagnosia is a real affliction for those on the more acute curve of the spectrum. That is, I'd never thought of that. So if you go back in time in a movie, then you can't put the two things together. That must be so confusing.

So many. Oh God, yeah, the vast majority, it seems. Use that as a device now, don't they? Yeah, yeah, they do. And especially in, you know, bingeable box sets because it kind of strings it out, doesn't it? It's a useful way of making things last longer than they probably should. So that's an incredible, incredible tale.

And you're right, we have met quite a few people who did you need to see a little bit more evidence that they had face blindness? I think sometimes it can, you can feel as if it might be used as an excuse to just blank you in a corridor. I do sometimes think it is used, yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Had the person in question just blanked you in a corridor? I'm not going to say, but yes.

Okay, no names, no pactual. Now, lots of emails from you about siblings and about birth order. We're not, I don't think we could probably devote an entire podcast of these emails, so thank you all very much for them. This listener wants to be anonymous and says, I was so pleased to hear you talking with nuance about the only child experience. It's a conversation which is often overlooked, and you're right to point out it's one of the few areas where prejudice seems socially acceptable.

I'm an only child in my early 40s. I'm used to the raised eyebrow, and the knowing that explains a lot, look, from certain people. When I was younger, all I wanted was to have siblings, but around my mid-20s, I started looking outwards a bit more and saw the complexities of other people's families and realised that having two parents who loved me and who I got on well with made me very lucky, siblings or no siblings.

As I've got older, an additional nuance has arisen, which is about not having nephews and nieces. I'm child-free, not necessarily by choice, but by not meeting the right person. and not wanting to have children enough to go it alone. I have a few friends my age and older in the same situation. We're all broadly comfortable with where we are, although if you'd asked any of us 10 or 15 years ago

whether we wanted children, I'm pretty sure we would all have said yes. The difference is that all of my friends do have nephews and nieces, so they have children whose lives they are able to play a significant role in and who'll be there as they get older. Thank you for that. That's thoughtful. Our correspondent does go on to say I had a mini epiphany last year

when I noticed that nearly all my exes had just one younger brother and then I went down a spiral of wondering if that's why they were so bad at communicating with women okay well I don't know possibly though obviously not necessarily quite a lot of people

would like us to loosely investigate obviously we're not a source of empirical data but just amongst the hive whether or not people are drawn to a part who's in a similar place. Same role in the family. In the family.

This one comes in from Maggie, who says on the subject of siblings, I wanted to tell you about an erstwhile friend of mine, who was not only child, but was the daughter of two only children who were no longer living. So she had no parents, siblings, aunts, uncles or cousins. She didn't have a partner or children and was therefore entirely without any family connections. As someone from a large family, which I'm guilty of taking for granted, I'm one of six with plenty of cousins, nephews and nieces

and a large family on my husband's side. I found it impossible to imagine what that would feel like. And I know she dreaded times like Christmas when friends would inevitably be with their families and her aloneness was accentuated. Your point about people possibly being drawn to others who have a similar family shape or who are in the same position in the pecking order

is an interesting one. And my friend's parents shared family circumstances may well have played a part in their attraction. I'm sure that. would have been good reasons for not having a second child, but I know it was a lasting sadness for her that there wasn't a single family member there for her. Maggie says, P.S., by the way, I am the fourth of the six, all born within eight years, no twins, and I'm married to the oldest of three, go figure. Interesting. That is a lot. Listening to your off-air discussion regarding

siblings, says Clive, I was the third of three. Then Dad died. Two days. before my ninth birthday. Mum remarried a couple of years later and they started a new family. Spin forward over half a century. My two granddaughters, 11 and 9, asked if I had any brothers and sisters. I said, I've got one brother

and one and a half sisters. They both laughed. How can you have half a sister? A shark attack, I said. No, not really. I explained it and eventually they took it all in. Bless them. Clive, that was a nasty joke.

Although also quite funny. It suggests that there was only half of the point. soul left. And this is an interesting one and I know people might take issue with this, but I'll punt it in any way, because Emma has real life experience. First time email a long time listener, I was introduced to you by my sister seven years ago when we were both up at all hours breastfeeding our new babies. Plenty of long, dark nights to go to the back catalogue and I can now say proudly, question mark, I've listened to every episode. Oh my God, Emma. Do you know what, that's more than we have? No, seriously, thank you.

I'm emailing because I was listening to your episode with Catherine Carr, and I thought I'd bring this to your attention. I worked for a care agency, and I was the person answering the phone and speaking with new clients when we started five years ago. I wasn't surprised, I suppose, but around 80% of the calls to us came from women, not just daughters, but nieces, goddaughters and friends. I'm sorry to say it hasn't changed much in those years, and as the mother of three boys, I give a lot of three boys.

thought to who's going to look after me in my final years. My mother-in-law, very sadly, died a couple of months ago. I nearly wrote passed away, but after listening to your many chats over the years, I firmly agree that these ambiguous phrases just have to go. Anyway, my mother-in-law died in New Zealand. My husband's one of three boys himself, and they all flew over to be with her in her final days. But, in fact, it was my mother-in-law's sister, cousins and nieces who provided the personal care and shared her room in her final few days. Emma, thank you for that. I have to say, I've got to be honest and say,

I certainly didn't do personal care for my mum when she was dying because there were brilliant healthcare assistants and nurses to do it. And honestly, I'm not sure I could have done. I've just got to be absolutely honest about that. So I wouldn't judge anybody who didn't do it or quotes couldn't do it. But I'm really interested in your

observation about the people who make contact with care agencies, I do think that for all the changes in society, generally speaking, picking up the slack, if there's a female in the family mix, it is probably going to fall to her to do it. But I really want to hear from people who say, no, that's Tosh, and it's definitely changing. Yeah, I think the only way that we help it to change

is to accentuate the stories from men who've picked up that baton and can talk about it. And then it just, you hope, makes it easier for other men to go, oh, okay. You know, I know Johnny did that for his mum or Patrick did that for his grandmother or sister or whatever it is. And so you create an easier pathway because it's just not fair, Jane. Yeah, it's not fair. And also for so many women, it will be the case that especially now, your kids have probably only just grown up before you have to start looking after elderly parents because we're all having our kids a lot later.

and so that continuum without a break in between where you don't have to wipe somebody else and that's what we're talking about. That is what we're talking about. It's not everybody's cup of tea. And I know a lot of people would point to the fact that perhaps an elderly woman would not want one of her sons doing exactly that.

So it's such a complicated area of this. It's a very complicated area and I mean I really struggle with that as well. I think we have to have a word with ourselves about who it is that we want to be looking after us because if personal care is done with kindness, it just doesn't matter who it is, what gender it is.

And as you and I've talked about before, I don't even mind if it's a robot if it's done with kindness. I know that it will elicit from me the same emotion. And actually, if a robot carer is going to spare my kids from something that they may not want to do, again, I just don't really mind, actually, Jane. And of course, people listening to this will say,

Well, Fie, you know, when the time comes, you might have changed your mind about that. I completely get that. But in the now, when I think about it, I just think whatever it takes, really. Yeah. I'm with you on the robot carer front. I think I might get on quite well with a robot carer.

I think you get on very well with a robot carer because you would have the ability to flick a switch and there be gone, Jane. Exactly. Oh, look, I've got... And you might enjoy that sense of power. I would enjoy that. I've just got to bring this to your attention figures I think you might have missed this

and it's simply golden Do you remember footy host Richard Keyes I do hairy hands Hairy hands It all met her Well he had a difficult time after he was horrendously sexist About a female lines person And he was shown the door

I mean but he's don't worry He's found lucrative work elsewhere And anyway he was married for 34 years Before his wife Julia filed for divorce back in 2016 over his alleged affair with a woman 31 years as junior. But that's not what I really want to talk about. In an interview over the weekend with the Telegraph,

Dad of two Richard says of that split, I remember one Christmas day, the best Christmas of my life in fairness. It's bearing in mind what's just happened to him. I sat with a bottle of champagne and a can of tuna, and I watched the Great Escape, where Eagles dare, and the guns of Navarone. That's a big tin of tuna.

He went on to marry Lucy. see in 2023. So a happy ending there for Richard. I'm just concerned about the tune. I think it might have been one of the, you're right, you can, they come in various sizes. Or it might have been one of those sealed packs you get three on top of each other quite bargain rates.

Probably one of those. You had a tuna stack. It may well have taken the whole of one of those films just to open one of those bloody stacks. I can never do it quickly. Ladies, that's how fell. get over heartache. We could all learn from that. I would very, very much like to hear from the previous Mrs. Keyes

as to how much she enjoyed that Christmas day and what she ate and what she watched and who she was with. So, do you know, there can be something terribly, terribly callous, can't there, about the descriptions of the freedom that you feel after you've left a relationship

that doesn't work out. And actually, I did always really, really, really feel for Matt Hancock's children when Matt Hancock was describing how he couldn't help himself because he'd fallen in love. Oh, no, it was so thoughtless. And he just thought, look made. Look, me.

That, you know, we can see it. It's not being kept private because, you know, there was a surveillance camera in your light bulb. So it's bad enough. I mean, no child. All ex-partner ever wants to see, you know, a full-on lustful embrace with their partner and somebody else. but for the kids to hear that, you know, Dad's fallen and it's not great.

No. Just I'm putting that out there, Matt, if you're listening. And, you know, I know that you were a fan of ours back in the day. Where does that come from? He wasn't. He didn't have his own app. He did have his app, which I think has been powered down now. Oh, I don't know why.

Sad times. Yeah, actually, I might look up to see where we're not. I do see what's up. I should have to say, I was on the underground system early last night, and there was some rather sort of heavy breathing. sexual activity in Ambridge. Helen's gone off with a crofter. I know none of this means anything to you,

but I'm so far behind with the archers, I was trying to catch up, but honestly, Helen, you've had so much trouble with the men in your life, and you've gone totally off-peased with this one. We don't know anything about this man. And when you say crofter... Yes, she met him in Scotland.

Okay, and he left his croft to come down to... It came down to the Midlands. I couldn't quite work out what had called him down there, but before you knew it, they were in a hotel room. Anyway, it just doesn't normally happen that way in Ambridge. Which of those three films have you seen? Have you seen Where Eagles Dare, The Guns of Navarone and The Great Escape? I've seen The Great Escape and Where Eagles Dare.

Oh, have you? Okay. But I've never seen The Guns of Navarone. And I never will. That's okay. So the Matt Hancock app doesn't seem to be in existence anymore. But if you type it in, you get a choice of Hargreys Landsdown, Save and Invest, Sky News, The Economist, the Daily Record and our own great and gifted organ, the Times.

Oh, well, that's good. Yeah, yeah. So I think any of those are preferable, actually. There we go. Cheetahs and plant-based diets we move on to before we head towards our guest, John Batiste, and he's got a residency at Coco's nightclub in Camden in June.

Will you be attending? Well, you know, me in Camden. Absolutely. Really? So what did I miss? I don't think I've been to Camden since I took one of my children there for a fish pedicure.

Ooh. Well, you know, they were a teenager. I mean, I don't know. Do you know, I'm very glad that that passed through as a fad quite quickly. Has it gone? Yes, because I think in terms of health and safety,

they would be beyond dubious. Beyond dubious. The chippy close to the market had to close down, didn't it? I'm only kidding. We don't know anything about that. I've just made that up. Yeah. Don't worry.

Deep fried toenails. Hello, Jane and Fee. I've been listening to you both since I was 15. I'm now 20. You've been with me through my GCSE's A-levels and first few years of uni. I love you both and I want to be like you when I'm older. Hashtag goals. This is my first time ever emailing, but over the weekend,

my boyfriend of two years went to a club in Manchester and cheated on me. He never seemed like the type to cheat, but I guess I didn't know him too well since he did in fact kiss another girl. I met him at the start of uni where I study English. and I'm not sure how I will manage without him. Obviously we are over, but I were wondering if you had any, I was wondering, sorry, I've made that up, your English is good, mine's terrible. I was wondering if you had any advice on heartbreak.

It is my first time experiencing it, I know. Also, on a very unrelated note, what are your opinions on being vegan and vegetarian? You can answer one or both. Okay. And our correspondent signs off by saying, hope you've both had a nice weekend, mine was shit. Well, lovely, lovely, lovely, lovely. Can we just say, first of all, that's rotten.

It's really rough, and I'm sorry. It is, and it doesn't matter how many people say, don't be too upset about it, you will be upset. You're allowed to be. You should let yourself be upset and let it all out because that's a really, really shitty thing to do. And, well, you go first with your advice to our correspondent. I would say, first of all, she's allowed an indulgent wallow for a couple of...

I mean, not too long, but certainly you've got the Easter break coming up. You can hopefully be at home with loved ones. Eat your own body weight in, perhaps I'm guessing, vegan or vegetarian chocolate. Indulge yourself. He's been and gone. He behaved in that way, so he wasn't a keeper. We now know that, and you should be jolly grateful that it's been discovered so you don't find yourself spending more and more time with someone who's simply not worthy of you.

That's what I would say. I completely agree and also I would say user is an opportunity to find your dignity and it will stand you in so much stead throughout your life if you find your dignity

early on in terms of what you want to be in the face of bad behaviour because bad behaviour can turn people into something that isn't really true to themselves that is lesser themselves that is unbearably sad may come across to other people as wallowing

or, you know, not being too introverted about their own emotions. And I suspect that you can absolutely nail this one and say, okay, that's happened, learnt something from it, I'm still great. And you don't have to put it on a T-shirt, you don't have to stride around saying it, but find a little bit inside you

that is very dignified about it. And do you know what, Jane, rejection is part of life and everybody is going to get it at some point and in some way and as humans were incredibly bad at dealing with rejection but it just means that it wasn't going to work. Also, I'm here to tell you, fantastic young woman, that rejection will happen time and time again. It might be...

And also, you'll do it to someone else. And you'll do it to someone else. It might be a relationship, it might be a job you really hoped for but didn't get and somebody else, some other sod got it instead. It might be a late-night kebab. It might be a late-night. What do you mean? We've all rejected food.

Oh, God, yes. Yes, your body will fight. But I think our correspondent might be vegetarian or vegan. Well, in that case, you definitely reject the late. You won't want to go anywhere near. But I don't think, don't feel the need to get over this immediately. You are allowed a couple of weeks of extreme unhappiness and wallow. And when things hurt, they hurt.

And they absolutely should do. Yeah. But you will be fine without him. You'll surprise yourself how fine you are without him. And so, so much better for this to happen when you can actually go back to university. and meet somebody else. You know, there is an opportunity now. I mean, the summer term is very quick, but, you know, get a wiggle on.

No, it's very lovely as well, isn't it? Everybody's outside. Everyone's smelling the fresh glass, glass, glass. Even in boring rain, are they? No, let's assume, let's assume sunshine will happen at some stage. Do we know which university are correspond? No, we don't. No, okay.

And even if we did, we're not putting it out there. No. But shall we just have a quick chat about being vegan or vegetarian as well? Yes, I mean, I've been vegetarian myself when I was in my late teens and 20s for seven or eight years I was vegetarian. And I'm afraid to say, I went to Florida and had a McDonald's, and that was the end of that. And I've honestly never looked back. But can I just say, it's a bit of a fath for whoever's doing the cooking, because I've lived through vegan and vegetarian phases with my offspring, both of whom are now fish enthusiastic.

Thank God, because it just makes things like catering for the older person so much easier. Hello, Haake. I'll hello mostly halibut Oh, okay Haddock Things beginning with H Haricot beans Anyway

I do I mean it can be a bit faddy Don't be faddy with your food It's one of life's greatest pleasures Enjoy it I would say And if you don't want to eat red meat Blown me I absolutely get that Why would you

I strongly suspect if I went to an abattoir I'd never eat red meat again either What do you think I think what a time to be alive if you're a vegan or a vegetarian in this country, I think your choices are plentiful. I think nearly everywhere you go, there is something on a menu that you'll be able to eat.

Don't be too restrictive about it. If there does come a time when you think actually I'd like a little bit of hate calibate or whatever it is, I think sometimes a massive guilt accompanies that if you've been vegan or vegetarian for a long time. And there's a sustainable aspect that sometimes if you look at the production methods in some elements of,

manufactured fake meat you know there are questions there are big questions yeah there are big questions I do slightly feel for the family

celebrating Easter by gathering around a roast cauliflower if I'm honest I mean I actually don't dislike roast cauliflower in fact it's rather nice but as a centrepiece

it lacks something I can't eat lamb you can't eat lamb I'm not very keen on lamb either actually so we're having a vegetarian Easter even a chicken

You're not even having a chicken. Well, no, meat will be cooked for some of the other people are coming over, but there's quite a contingent for us who will be doing something hopefully tasty with a cauliflower and some kimchi. Oh, okay. Yes, that can lift a cauliflower, can't it? Can it? There's that great line in the royal family where the character played by Sue Johnson, the fantastic actress. One of the young son has got a vegetarian girlfriend coming around. She suggests surely she can have

Is it the wafer thin ham? Yeah, surely she could have way for thin ham. Anyway, we hope that's cheered you up. Yes, Eve's been vegetarian for a long time. I have been vegetarian for a long time. Any opinions? I love being vegetarian. Well, I'm pescatarian.

I would just say if you're going to... Firstly, I find it really annoying. If you do just want to have a bite of meat, something like, you're not vegetarian, then really are you? So I think I agree with you. just bloody do it if you want to do it, if you feel like it. And I think if you're being vegan, just be really conscious that maybe take some supplements or some vitamins

and make sure that you're getting all the extra stuff. It's the calcium, isn't it? And the vitamin D that especially as a woman, you don't want to be without it. Because our bodies do leach that later on. Explore it, but don't restrict yourself. You never see Ryan eating in space, do you? He doesn't eat a thing.

Maybe he does talk about it. It talks about food, but I did think that as well. It's probably quite boring. No insight into his toilet arrangements either, I noticed. I was quite grateful for that. Okay, who's the guest? Can I just say to our lovely correspondent, will you get back in touch after Easter holidays

and let us know you're okay? Yeah, absolutely. And let us know how you're feeling. And if none of our advice has worked, then we'll think of something else. Right, our guest is John Battiste, incoming musical genius. John Batiste grew up in a musical family in New Orleans.

He got to the prestigious Juilliard School in New York. It wasn't an entirely happy experience for him, but it powered him on to form the band Stay Human, which was and is famous for playing wherever it fancies on the subway in the park as Stephen Colbert's house band on the late show and on a stage at the Grammys if they have to. And there'd be on a stage a long time at the Grammys because in 2022, John was nominated for 11,

awards. He won five, notably album of the year, and it really had been a year. 2022 was also when his wife, Salika, who he met at a band camp when they were just 14, was having her second bone marrow transplant to treat a lifelong condition of leukemia. This is all there in a film called American Symphony. You can see that on Netflix, because John was also writing and performing that symphony, his first ever orchestral work at Carnegie Hall. I know it is a lot, bringing his multiple musical styles to Coco in Camden in North London for a mini residency. Every night is different, including a symphonic evening with orchestra, a fan driven by request performance, a night of communal song with special guests, and a performance of Batiste's jazz compositions from Disney and Pixar's Soul,

which earned him an Academy Award and a BAFTA. He's providing such an extraordinary spectrum of choice. I asked if he finds it exhausting. You know, I find moments like now, you know, I'm here. I was just saying I go through these seasons. I'm sitting here. We are on our farm and we got the bucolic remedies out there and out the window.

I see the animals in the sunlight and I got my grits here. You ever eat grits, you know? Oh, I tried them once, John. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't, they didn't really agree with me. Well, look, it's an acquired taste. You'll learn to love it. Okay.

And for me, that's like fuel. We grew up on grits and we grew up on these different things that, you know, for me, a healing, allow for me to replenish the life force energy that I give on the stage. So I get excited about these kind of moments in June. I can't wait for June to come. And before that, you know, I have this time where I can reflect and sit with my thoughts and sit with all of the ideas and all of the different moments that are to come and visualize how to create the most optimal experience

and to give the most high vibrational frequency of my artistry possible. So if I have the space like I have now, we have this moment where we carved out some time, we're on the farm, we travel, we do things to replenish and to reflect and to visualize, then by the time June come, I won't be exhausted. And it's taken me some time to learn that, you see. Fee, it's taken me some years,

and I'm still developing the process of being in flow as an artist. I get so many ideas, and I'm grateful for them, but I have to pace myself to your point. I have to kind of have to carve out the moments of listening and praying over it in order to be able to do what I do. Sure. One of the things that really struck me when I was watching American Symphony,

which is the most remarkable film made about you and your wife in 2022, which was just an extraordinary year for you both, wasn't it? You had a symphony you were writing, composing, premiering at Carnegie Hall. You won every single Grammy that was ever available to mankind. You know, it was such an astonishing year of creativity for you, but against a backdrop of your wife being so unwell and having another bone marrow transplant. And it was your energy, John, when I was watching that film

that I think I was just so struck by how you were actually able to carry on giving all of this musicality to the world whilst dealing with something so, so painful behind the scenes. And I just wonder what that year looks like to you both. Now it's slightly more in the distance. Well, we're still processing the lessons of that year. First, the gratitude to be alive and the

gratitude to have our life that we've built, this creative life. Creativity is an act of survival. And we're constantly living and creating as human beings, and we're moving through the ups and downs. And many times they're all occurring at once. It's all happening at the same time. So the process that takes years, it takes years of understanding what you've made it through and who you've become. And the gratitude that comes with that is overwhelming. And the perspective that comes with that changes you in ways that are indescribable. So the film capturing it is a miracle in and of itself, a miracle of, you know, the directorial feat of Matthew Heineman is is commendable to have captured that vulnerability and openness that we as a family decided to share

for him to craft that into this film that now we can revisit and watch. You know, we don't really watch the film, but for folks out there to be able to watch it and to recognize, you know, what you see on the surface is not always what it is. and it's never really the full story of what it is. Even those who are on the highest mountains are dealing with the same human struggles that we all face. So this is a powerful thing to have documented. And I'm grateful that we were able to share something

of a testament to the human condition and the power of God through this film. Your music carries politics with it, John. And I do want to ask you about the politics of America at the moment. Where's your head at with the direction that your country or the leader of your country is taking? Well, the miracle of America,

which is what the American Symphony, we talk about the film and the title of the symphony and the title of the film, and the thinking around that was really looking at the miracle of American life, this idea that we can all come from nothing and all from different diasporic traditions, and lineages and come as one,

iplurbis unum, to become a country that's built on the identity of an ideal and a creed is a powerful thing and it has to be of the people, for the people, by the people, with the people all the way from the root to the top,

people power. Everybody has to be accounted for. And that's not what's currently happening. You know, we're in a time where persecution around the way, world is at its highest degree, not just in our country everywhere. Persecution, it has no gender, it has no race, it has no class, and it can happen to any one of us. If it's not you today, it could be you tomorrow. So what I think about is the power of our leaders not in the political

sphere, but in the community sphere. Yeah, politics are important, but people power is the most powerful force that we have. And when people come together and we make this act of community, this act of being civically engaged, this act of creating art that uplift the spirit and tunes us to a high frequency of our humanity, then we can create a sense of how to move forward and how to pick up the pieces of what's been broken and to also salvage the beautiful opportunity of what this country is and the opportunity of a life in a country that's built on such a profound ideal, even though there was blood that was shed to get here. The profundity of the idea of America is still intact. I feel that we have to weather this storm and understand that you may be the

one that's persecuting now, but eventually that's going to turn on you. This is how this goes. to completely change tack john when you were younger you were at juliart weren't you which is an incredibly prestigious music college in america many of our listeners will know the name is it is it true that you were sent to a psychiatrist when you were there because you just couldn't put down your melodica which we would know i mean as a kind of a kids instrument i mean it's it's often the gateway isn't it for a kid to get into playing the piano because they can blow it at the same time and it makes all kinds of noises. I don't want to disrespect your trade here, but is that true? You know, it's in the hands of the creator.

The creator, the musician, the creator, the vision of the creative person can take a spoon, you know, the spoons as an instrument down in Cajon and Country. in Louisiana. The washboard is an instrument. We can create an instrument out of anything, the bucket, the, you know, skiffle music. You can create, so it's all in the mind of the creative person, the soul that has the instrument. And I saw something in this toy, this Charles toy, this thing, I played it. And it was a combination of me playing that through the halls and in the cafeteria and me being who I am in an environment that didn't understand that, didn't understand the essence of a young Batiste 17 years old coming from Kenna, Louisiana, going into Lincoln Center.

Really, just the freedom of being in that and them not understanding led me to a realization that I value my freedom and I value the expression of who I am above the values of. of fitting into the milieu of the classical elite institutional psychology that oftentimes it pervades spaces like that. It dictates people's behavior and people can become a version of themselves that's not authentic or true. And they can become stiff. And this happens not just in musical environments of this sort, but across the many fields and across the many mediums. there's many environments where we feel that we can't bring our full essence to it. And I started to understand through this experience,

especially when you talk about art and creativity, you see it happening now, you know, you look back. That was my experience early on. But then, you know, there's changes. There's almost a cultural repatriation that's happening. We're going back and redefining terms and redefining histories and bringing different people that were left out of history back into the history and sorting out all of this stuff that because of attitudes like that were left out.

A lot of stuff happened to me that I look back on. I'm like, wow, that was important. I'm glad that that happened, even though in the moment it was difficult. And it's like that for many of us in life. Joy comes from pain, you know, oftentimes. And let's face it, John, the melodica paid off, didn't it? I would love to hear... Straight away. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

I would love to hear your thoughts about AI because we need to go there with every creative person who we talk to at the moment. I think those of us who consume your creativity are only just starting to understand the difference that AI might already have made and certainly will make. And I wonder whether you can see, any positives in it.

Is it something that you use at all in the process yourself? No, no, I don't use AI. I have not used AI yet. I don't even use the chat GPT or whatever. You know, the... Yeah, those large language learning model chat lots. Yeah. I know exactly.

I know a lot about them. I've studied them deeply. I know a lot about what's... happening and I've deeply involved myself in understanding it because recently, well, this is occurred recently, but it's not something that is a recent development of my life. Over actually the last 12 years, I've been developing a curriculum and a form of scientifically accredited peer study around the spiritual practices and oral traditions and the ancient wisdom that's found in sacred scriptures found in earliest forms of music and the first drum and the first stringed instruments

and the feeling of music as a healing force. And I've been studying that with hundreds of music therapist at the helm to try to find empirical data for the healing properties of music that allow for it to be incorporated into treatment and incorporated into treatments through many different forms of medical practice, music therapy being one of them, but for folks who have PTSD, for folks who practice healing, folks who've gone through tinnitus or have depression and disorders across the spectrum of respiratory disorders, mental disorders, all these ways that people have dealt with stuff in this time we need it more than ever. And I think AI could be a way to scale and help to find the cures for rare diseases and help to expedite understanding how to

treat people. And it could be a way to scale and understand how we're in a loneliness epidemic and we're in a mental health epidemic and how we can scale treatments for those things because it's so personalized. And it's so at this point, it's not a communal thing. It's a very single-focused thing. It's not something that's bringing people together in real life, but perhaps it could be used to do that and it can be used in a single-focused way to scale treatments across the spectrum of different elements and maladies. But I believe that if it's aimed at that, it could be a very useful tool and a powerful way to scale ancient wisdom. We just printed a paper in voices, which is music, wellness, music, therapy, peer-reviewed study in Voices, which is a very rigorous and accredited paper that now

people can reference from our 12 years that I've been involved in many years before that, these great, great therapists have been working on this, and I've led this curriculum and this study. So now social music is an accredited medical practice with scientific backing. I'm trying to figure out how do we take these ideas and scale them to people who need them the most. People like in the 17th Ward in New Orleans or people in Bangalore, people who are in communities that don't have access to the highest forms of treatments. And they don't have access to all the things in more privileged positions have access to. And I don't know exactly where I'm going to land on it, but I'm processing it. And until then, I'm not really using AI.

Sure. I'm only going to use it once I know how to use it and have an impact in that way. John Batiste, and if you want to go and see any number of different versions of music that he can perform, that residency is on at Coco, which is a huge club in Camden between June the 24th and June the 28th. That is in London. I don't think he's got any other dates across the UK. but if it's floating your boat then why not treat yourself to a night in town?

Absolutely. Not up in town. It's not up west, is it? It's up. Up north. Up north. Up north west. Yeah.

Right. Thank you so much for all the fantastic emails. Honestly, you are absolutely acing it in the email department at the moment. We're very, very grateful. Jane and Fee at times. com. Radio. And tomorrow's guest is Stigable

novelist and ballcaster. Why are you laughing? I'm not the poor guy. I'm not laughing. He's basically our boss. He is our boss. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with Jane and Fee.

Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do it live every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio on live.

online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.