Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Helping Grandma into her girdle

Episode Date: May 9, 2023

Jane and Fi plan their re-enactment of the coronation and make their apologies to Jane's late cat Mittens, who is definitely an 'Off Air' fan. They're joined by Gabby Logan, sports presenter, former gymnast and brilliantly successful podcaster. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Assistant Producers: Kate Lee Times Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Good evening. Good evening. Very good evening. Good evening. Good evening, London. No, we're in London. Sorry. Good evening from London. Is that better?

Yes, perhaps a little too clipped. Mind you, that brings me on to this article I've discovered. You too can get arms of steel like Penny Mordant holding a sword of state need his toned biceps this is the Daily Telegraph which has completely lost its fruit

it's not the only organ to have totally lost it over the Lord President of the Privy Council Penny Mordant 50 entrusted with carrying the sword estate during the coronation ceremony. The 350-year-old ceremonial blade. Good second mention there. Ceremonial blade.

It sounds like a rather randy guest. Exactly. Weighs in at 3.5 cook so this was pretty impressive certainly was so how much in old money is uh three kilograms uh oh now hang on a sec i think that must be so is it about a stone i think it is about a stone if that is a lot she was there for such a long time everybody else was busy with the orbs and the gowns and the oils and everything and she was just standing that's all she was doing standing but um the bad news yeah if you are yourself uh thinking of becoming lord president of the privy council you will need to do the following. Squats or standing and sitting down from a chair. Press-ups against a wall or on knees or full body.

Bicep curls and tricep dips. The good news is you could have, well realistically not 70 years, but you could have 15 years to get yourself in shape. You've also got to become an MP. Yeah. So you've got to pick become an mp yeah so you've got to pick a party that would be in position at the time of the next event and you've got to be it's all about timing i'm just looking to see whether or not her outfit's already available on the very large it will deliver to your door by 7 p.m this evening place what for a fancy dress party yeah or as I suggested on Saturday, recreate the coronation in the comfort of your own home.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm sure that many, many, many people are thinking of doing exactly that, recreating a tableau in their own home, and you can come as Penny Mordant. I think you'd do that quite well, actually. Oh, I... Let's do this for our summer party.

Shall we? Yeah. OK. Well, everyone will want to be her nobody's going to want to be the archbishop of canterbury are they i don't know somebody with uh just absurdly egotistical powers might want to be i don't know anything because he was in charge wasn't he he's a nice guy i'm not being rude about his personality no not at all that is his position i'd like to come as uh kate the princess of wales yes

because i think that she did actually have the last fancy dress outfit from amazon it's quite gaudy wasn't it you didn't say any of this on saturday when you're in full commentary mode because we were within earshot of the royal family oh i see okay right but didn't you think that all of the garter ones were quite gaudy? And Princess Anne's enormous bicorn. That's just... I mean, Britain is a very special place. And I do think... Do you follow any foreign newspapers on the Insta or any of the socials?

Oh, frequently, darling. I do look at the Washington Times and things like that. And the Washington Post. They obviously carried the coronation, but some of the comments underneath. So, I mean, look, I loved Saturday, and we had a lot of fun covering the event for Times Radio. But in all honesty, the outside world is looking on, partly in wonder, but also in apt.

What are you lot playing at? And they're right to ask of course they are of course they are but anyway that doesn't mean that we weren't at times very moved well but that was the extraordinary thing about the day you could have a proper belly laugh at some of the stuff that was going down and then within five minutes be a little bit tearful. For me, it was the moment when the Prince of Wales, William, had to do his life and limb bowing to his dad and they had a little kiss on the cheek. And just in that moment, Jane, is a whole this is coming at you moment, isn't it? I just thought it was an extraordinary thing to witness and i wouldn't

want to i mean you know i there are lots of things that i wouldn't want my children to have to go through that i've been through myself in the royal family they have no choice you see what happens when someone tries to opt out i'll tell you what. What I wouldn't give to be crowned queen and for my sister to have to pay homage. So, do you know what? I'm going to take your sister out for, not even a drink, I'm going to take her out for a really, really nice long Sunday lunch one day. Well, that's because you're the younger sister.

Yeah. And I think that me and Alison would have a very nice time. Quite a lot to discuss, actually. so I'll look forward to that. Can we just bring in our music correspondent, Alice? I'm very grateful to Alice. I'm listening to you at the same time as writing, so apologies for my inarticulateness, she says, but actually, no problem with it, don't worry.

I get the classical church music may not be to your taste, and the gospel choir were fab, but honestly, it was wonderful and something we should all be so proud of the music was right at the forefront don't ignore it well i don't think we have actually uh give more of a shout out to the musicians says alice it's really quite incredible what they achieved uh combined choirs including finally girl choristers newly commissioned music including female composers that's absolutely true uh debbie wiseman for example several world class conductors dotted around the abbey but somehow making the music sound together and

beautifully expressive if the horrendous cuts to music education continue alice says i doubt the next coronation will be musically so world class well that would be a real shame wouldn't it what do you think the next coronation will be like uh i don't think it'll be like the events of saturday i think it will necessarily be quite uh pared down i think how pared down do you think well that's the difficulty isn't it because if you're going to have a monarchy then you may as well do it in a wholehearted fashion i guess excuse me sorry i hope that wasn't a chill you picked up over the weekend. Did we mention the weather?

So cold and wet. So you had a slightly better seat than me in terms of the table. So I had my back to the table. So when the wind howled through, it was a proper, proper wind tunnel. And as a bit of a joke in the morning, I brought my dog walking coat because I just thought well it's you know there's no such thing as bad weather there's only bad clothing

I'll take my very very firmest but not expecting to wear it in May and I couldn't have loved it more if I tried I would have coronated that coat by the end of the day it saved my bacon did a good job didn't it yeah it really did did you pay a lot for it

I did actually it's quite an investment because I think with a dog walking coat you know in terms of pay per use Jane, it's already less than a pound a day and I intend to be wearing that in 30 years time. Well I want to put a word in here for the late, a much

lamented Topshop who did a sort of fake barber about 15 years ago that wasn't particularly expensive and which i bought and it has been so useful it's quite fitted looks all right isn't a barber cost hardly nothing like you'd pay for one of the original thing and it's super whatever the condition welcome to women talk. This is a podcast. It'll please someone somewhere, Jane. That's the worry.

I just want to help. I know. Can I just talk a tiny bit about pets and money? I took Nance to the vet today to have her annual kennel cough vaccination, stuff like that. Well, I mean, whenever I walk into that vet's, it's £139.

It doesn't matter if I've gone to have a toenail trimmed off a cat. It's £139. And they gave her her annual health check and they said she's got a mild heart murmur and would i like to consider having a heart scan which would come in at 1100 pounds do you know what that because i had exactly the same with my late cat mittens i say late of course may have been a factor but she was also diagnosed with a murmur and they asked if I'd like a scan. And you feel terrible, but I just said no.

I have said no too. And it's not a heart murmur, you know, that she can't kind of walk home if she might collapse, but it's just like, oh my God. So I'm sorry. Don't judge me. Don't judge me. Don't judge me.

But no, she's not having that. Just before we move on from and I'm sorry to hear about that is I mean, I know vets do a wonderful job, but that is a lot of money. It's a lot of money. And the problem is, Jane, that I mean, she's 10. She's a greyhound. They tend to live between 12 and 16 years. I would really love it if she made it 16, but she is 10 already. 16 years. I would really love it if she made it to 16, but she is 10 already. But the awful thing is, I now will feel incredibly, incredibly guilty if she dies over the next couple of years, because I'll think, if only I'd taken her for the scan. And I did say to the vet, well, what would the process be afterwards if she did have some kind of a heart complaint? And of course, they can't tell you that, you know, until you've had the scan.

It's kind of like, oh, I don't want this to be happening to me. Well, try to think positive. Yes, but it's not helped. Put your pennies to good use. But the late mittens. Well, she's listening in now and thinking, that miserable bitch, if she'd paid for that bloody murmur, I'd still be here.

Anyway, okay. it makes me feel terrible sorry mittens i'm just really spooked at the thought that mittens is listening to this do you think she's done every episode she's come with us from the old place she did say she found it difficult keeping up with the sheer number of editions of affair right um jennifer is in the beautiful autumnal east coast of Australia. She just has a few observations about the events of Saturday. I don't like Charles's fingers, she says. Well, each to their own, Jennifer.

The Greek chant gave me goosebumps, she says. The military parade at the end was wonderful, and the navy manoeuvre shift from 12 abreast to 6 was worth the wait. And she also says I would like to join the worshipful company of girdlers wouldn't we all i think we all would and i speak as somebody who used to have to help i used to

have to help my grandma into her good it's given me what i i think you can probably let's put it this way i understand some of what old age means having grown up with my grandmother in the house and being exposed to well just the sheer uh just the body of work that there was that woman's underwear i tell you it was extraordinary anyway let's let's clear our heads and talk about something else well this comes in from sean who says i finally caught up after binging your complete extensive informative and funny back catalogue uh one thing i'd like to remark on is that you're both very reluctant to mention the BBC by name. You call it the other place or where we used to work.

Has Aunty placed a fatwa on you? Is it the case that if you mention your previous employer, you're abducted by highly trained interns and sent to a detention centre in Salford? Well, I mean, it could happen, Sean. I think some of our colleagues have met that same fate. I don't know why we don't mention it by now. I think we do.

We do sometimes, but also I think there's just a feeling that we've left, so you don't want to give the place any more publicity. And Sean goes on to say, please continue your great work and good luck on Saturday. Well, thank you for that. And he signs himself off as Sean, heterosexual beta male in brackets, menopause

aware devon ps do i get a badge you get so many badges for that sean absolutely um this is about well it's headlined croc monsieur but it's about a lot of other things i've just been on the phone to my sister in glasgow both sarah who's telling us there she has a sister who lives in glasgow and a phone i've just been on the phone to my sister. Would you like to come to the sister's lunch? Oh, this is going to be a great day out. I've just been on the phone to my sister in Glasgow, who's a French, she's far better than mine,

to ask what croque monsieur actually means. According to my big sister Jane, lovely name, a croque is a bite. She's not sure where the mister comes in but did say that a croc madame has an egg added to the original ham and cheese male variety i do not like croc madames so sorry talk me through this again you're going to get ham and cheese with a fried egg in it and croc means bite and a croc madame is the toasted sandwich that's got an egg. Okay. Yeah. So it's just, it means a man's bite. It's a man's bite. And then the lady has an egg.

Because I don't know if you know, but in human biology, we're the ones with the eggs. And they're the ones with... I don't think I've ever had a croque, madame. I had once and it won't be happening again. Also, you remember those French novels that we were told about last week with the titles that we weren't entirely sure we could translate them?

The Changez l'eau des fleurs is indeed about changing flower water. And this book tells the story of a woman who takes on a job in a cemetery, which might sound dismal, but actually is quite the opposite. That sounds interesting. And the other title, which we both liked, Les Oublets du Dimanche, refers to the elderly that nobody visits on Sundays. That's so sad. That is sad. They are the forgotten ones. It is a really lovely book, says Sarah, about a young woman who works in a care home and the stories about the wonderful life that one of the residents had previously lived. Oh, that's fantastic. Thank you for that.

Anyway, if you read one, you'll probably want to read them all, she says. I hope they translate well into English, as the author has a beautiful turn of phrase and makes so many beautiful observations about life. Thank you. Can I just read this one before we go to the big interview of the day? It's from Katrina, and it explains lots and lots of things about that translation of books and why we might not be reading very many things that aren't in English. We're spoilt for choice already, says Katrina, in one of her headings. There's an enormous international pool of literature written in English, including literary heavyweight countries such as the USA, Canada, Australia, India and South Africa.

She then says we remain fairly monolingual culturally, and that's really true, isn't it? Apart from the odd craze such as Scandi Noir, we still mainly look to other English-speaking countries for films, TV, music and books, rather than to our nearest neighbours, as many other countries would do. And the third one I'd just never thought about,

but of course it's true. Translating a novel is expensive and slow. Unlike the rest of the translation industry, which works on economies of scale, literary translation is a true labour of love, requiring someone who is not only a master translator, but a decent author in their own right. I hadn't thought about that. That is a very good point. Yeah. And how weird must it be if you are bilingual to have your novel translated, I suppose, into the language that you're slightly weaker in and to read it back and for it to not really be the true voice that you wrote it in?

That would be strange, wouldn't it? That really would be strange. I always think as well with people who um do you ever really know somebody properly if you don't speak their language like and it's really difficult because obviously lots of people marry people who don't speak don't speak their language and spend lifetimes together but is it really because are all your nuances you have to be really super good in a language for everything that you want to express to be crystal clear. Well, maybe that actually ends up being quite helpful.

Do you think I could be enigmatic in another language? Well, I think there is a certain frisson, isn't there? If only there was, Fiona. I've waited years. Not ultimately understanding where everybody's coming from all the time. So I think that that might play to a strength sometimes. Now, this is totally changing the subject, but I do think this is important, and I suspect it isn't that uncommon, and it's about unwanted attention. We were talking last week, or was it the week before,

about, frankly, slightly gropey members of the clergy that people had come up against, brushed up against in every sense of that phrase. And they hadn't enjoyed it much. And we have the official advice is definitely complain about it. But make sure you go to the safeguarding person within the diocese. That's the gist of it. This is from somebody who works in a care home. I've been listening with interest to your discussion about unwanted male or female attention and wanted to share an experience that I had recently. I work as a carer visiting the elderly at home. Now, I went to see a client a couple of weeks ago, an 87-year-old man who lives with his wife.

He's usually very quiet and often gets confused. On this occasion, he was very chatty and he put his arms around my neck and tried to kiss me while suggesting we could go off and amuse ourselves. I told him no and went outside so I could call my boss. My boss told me to write a report to, quotes, cover the company and I've been taken off the man's rotor. If this had happened with somebody my age or in a different situation, I would have reported it. As he's considered a harmless elderly man, it's been almost laughed off with other colleagues recounting similar stories with different clients going into private homes to help people it really has made me realize just

how vulnerable carers are but i'm not really sure what the answer is and i'm not sure either but i'm really glad that individual has told us about that and i do i'm pretty sure other people listening will have had similar experiences i think carers are hugely undervalued, and I think, as that email illustrates, they are sometimes in quite vulnerable situations too. I would imagine more so than... I can't think of another profession in which you could be more vulnerable, actually,

because in hospital settings or other settings, there is more scrutiny and there are more people and security and cameras and all kinds of things Anyway, thank you for telling us about that Jane and Fee at times.radio I'm sorry it's happened because I imagine that was probably quite unsettling to put it mildly

And just one final thought or not final if listeners want to carry on emailing about it but the vicar who had moved past while placing hands on the hips of our original correspondent. Do you know what? It's so worth reporting it just because it might not be predatory. He's just doing something that he doesn't realise

how he's making other people feel. I still think there is a large contingent of mainly men out there who don't realise what the reaction is to what they do. We had a little bit of an incident on Saturday at the coronation where we were both on the receiving end of what the purveyor of it would have thought to be light banter but you and I would absolutely regard it as sexism including a wink that I didn't ask for and I didn't want to receive. Did you get a wink?

I did. But that, and I think, you know, that's a classic case of the bloke just needing to be told, don't do it and this is why. And not necessarily by us, because that would be tricky. It would be. It's not interesting. It would still be tricky, wouldn't it? Which is why we didn't say anything at the time. Yep.

And we're both quite gobby, as regular listeners will know. Gabby Logan is a BBC sports presenter, former gymnast, and brilliantly successful podcaster. There's very little she won't talk about, too, which is very good news for anybody who's teeing up for an interview with her. She came on the programme this afternoon between 3 and 5 here on Times Radio to talk about her latest podcast, which makes people talk about money. It's called The Family Money Show, and guests in this series include Richard Curtis and Alastair Campbell.

And the whole USP is to talk about how money affects people, what they do with it, and maybe also how much they have. And that was our first question to Gabby. Has anyone actually told her how much money they've got in the bank? Well, some people, you can find that out if you really want to. You go online and kind of, you know, you could even go to a company's house and find out the kind of tax they're paying. But that's not the point of it, really. It's about going back on their kind of, you know, their youthful kind of monetary experiences whether that's from their parents what they what they learned from their family

growing up if there was any financial or monetary kind of knowledge and then going through their lives how they their approaches change you find a lot of people don't really get serious about investments till it kind of is sometimes too late you know pensions aren't very sexy are they when you're 22 but some people are really risk averse and, you know, start doing things like that much earlier in life. And, you know, they don't spend their money on fast cars and holidays and things. So we talk about those things. But also people like Richard Curtis talk about ESG pensions, which I've never heard of before. He's massively into that, which is environmental, social and governance-based pensions. And people talk about, you know,

kind of how they sometimes in Alastair Campbell's case just hand everything over to their wife. So there's a wide range of experiences. Was that a particularly short edition of the podcast? Yeah, could you please hand me over to Fiona? No, because he talked a bit about busking in France and how, you know, because we talked about earning money. When you first start earning money, how that changes your, you know, your view of life, doesn't it? Because suddenly I see it with my teenagers. When they've got some money that's actually theirs, they've been given it for Christmas or birthdays. How they spend it changes dramatically to when they're spending your money and we all remember that as well that our first paycheck you know when you when you actually have to kind of start budgeting for yourself you realize how expensive life is and you know it gives you um a little kind of um an eye opener i suppose as you know as a young person i think it's really important that kids do have

those lessons early on i guess that's what we look into as well how people's um knowledge now affects how they talk to their kids about money. And the whole platform, I is for people who don't necessarily have that history of being brought up by parents who've invested in the stock market, which I certainly didn't. Or, you know, my parents didn't talk to me about ISIS or SIPs or pensions. My parents had a very gung ho attitude to money. So I didn't really get any of that education. So I didn't really get any of that education. And so when you were much younger, you were a very successful gymnast, weren't you, in your teenage years. Did you imagine that you would pursue a professional sporting career? And how did you think that you would be able to make any money?

I never, ever expected to make any money out of gymnastics,'s for sure because I was pre-national lottery funding even for for sports so I got I think a sports aid grant a couple of times which helped pay for a few train journeys but it was never going to be a job or a career for me it was always going to be something that I'd have to give up to get a job and I you know I went to university and that's when it pretty much ended around that time um so I I loved sport and I wanted to do as much sport as I could. But there weren't many sports that were professional for women when I was a young girl. Certainly there was no football, no rugby, no cricket. There was golf and tennis, as far as I could see, you could make a living from and maybe some of the top, top athletes in the world.

So I didn't even think sport was ever going to be a career for me. And it's funny, isn't it it Seb Coe is one of your guests on this series isn't he and I thought he talked really brilliantly just about the way that we have you know the collective we has really rather forgotten how tough it was for sports people in our relative recent history he was talking about Brendan Foster actually being a chemistry teacher all the way through the time that we would have seen him on the track. Yeah. And Seb himself was really at the vanguard, wasn't he? He talks about that, about how he was kind of one of the first people to become professional and make some money and how actually had to keep his amateur status.

The money had to go. Any money he made had to go somewhere else. These are the days when the Olympics was really the Olympics was really truly for amateur people, you know, amateur sports people. And he was one of the first to kind of look at it as a career, actually, not just something that he did alongside other stuff that he was doing, in spite of the fact that he's a bit of a polymath, I think, in terms of the things he's done, you know, he's been in politics, and obviously, he's one of the most powerful people in global sport at the moment. So I found his episode fascinating actually it took me right back to you know i was a kid watching him on those big friday night athletics meets where he used to race against steve obet and steve cram and um and i forgot kind of how tough it must have been

actually for them you kind of now we watch the olympics and we watch big sporting events and those guys you know who are racing are all professional athletes. It's a full time job. You mentioned the women's sport and how it didn't really used to get taken seriously. And I think you've said in the past just how significant that Euro win for England's women was. Because I can't remember enjoying a sporting occasion quite as much as that. And honestly, for days afterwards, I was just sitting revisiting the highlights on YouTube. It was there was a fairy tale element to all that, wasn't there?

It was a magical summer and a magical tournament. And everything about it kind of came together in just this perfect storm. You know, we had this blazing hot summer. So we had these gorgeous you know backdrops these amazing games where the stadiums were full you know you go to a couple of games I did not involving the lionesses at places like Bramwell Lane you're coming out at 10 o'clock at night and people are still wandering the streets talking about the football they've just seen and you know you don't even get that on a Saturday ordinarily you know in a man's game because you kind of want to get

out there as quick as possible there's you, there's often a slight kind of atmosphere, sometimes outside football games. And it just was this family kind of, it sounds cliche, because, you know, people say all the families go and watch women's game. But there were so many families and groups of groups of women, or, you know, actually, the one of the best sites I saw was at the New York Stadium. And it was France against Iceland. And there were four teenage boys just on their own. And this is when women's sport for me has really cut through because it doesn't just attract women you know it's attracting everybody because it's so entertaining it's so brilliant and and then that final itself which was you know the absolute icing on the cake you know to beat Germany in a final at Wembley extra time you

couldn't get much more dramatic other than a penalty shootout probably and and it has you know it really has made an impact. You look at what happened last week with Arsenal playing in the Champions League against Barcelona, selling out midweek in the Emirates. Yeah, they had 60,000 people there, didn't they? Yeah, it's amazing. There was a bit of a ding dong, though, about the level of advertising revenue and the rights being offered for women's football last week, though, wasn't there? and the rights being offered for women's football last week, though, wasn't there? Yeah, FIFA have had a few regions not wanting to pay what they value the World Cup later this year at.

The BBC and ITV are sharing the tournament for the first time because we've previously had it to ourselves. But ITV now cover a lot of the women's game. They've taken the FA contract, so we'll be splitting the games. But other countries have said they're not prepared to pay what FIFA have said. And, you know, I don't know the absolute metrics of French television, for example, and why they, you know, what they value it on and what their kind of algorithms tell them about advertising. But that's disappointing, obviously.

And, you know, there's often, even in the men's game, there's often disagreement between broadcasters and the rights holders as to what they think it's worth. But without it being on, you know, those platforms, it won't grow. So, you know, we were obviously showing, you know, half the matches, ITV showing half the matches. You'd be able to see everything of the World Cup this summer between the two channels. So we just need to really make sure that our enthusiasm for the game shines brightly across the world, don't we? So that they can keep those advertising revenues and those rights up. Yeah. And it's the countries around the world that haven't yet quite kind of pushed the game through from the men's game.

You know, there's there are a few countries in Africa that have women's teams that are quite strong. But we need to get more more women's teams going through the African nations who are now so strong in the men's game, you know, reach the latter stages. In South America, you know, there's a bit more to be done. So, you know, Europe has been very strong and America has been very strong for a very long time at the Americas. So it's, you know, North America, it's getting it's getting the world kind of on a level playing field. So you get more good teams. Can we just talk a little bit about you doing what I suppose we ought to call men's match of the day? How often do you do it? Because sometimes you're there and more often than not, it's that bloke, isn't it? But you do it quite a bit. Yeah, I've done it more in previous seasons.

This season, I've been so busy doing other things and a lot of rugby and doing, I do a lot of things like the Great North Run and the marathon, the Great Manchester and things. So I try and only do one sport in a weekend because it's really hard to go from. I had some weekends this week, this year, where I've gone from rugby on a Saturday to football on a Sunday. I did a match of the day a few weeks ago. I don't do loads of them because Gary actually, I assume you're talking about him. He doesn't take that many off, that many scheduled off. doesn't take that many off, that many scheduled off. You know where this is heading. I mean, I think a lot of people are interested in why Gary Lineker is allowed to behave in the way he is allowed to behave by the BBC when other people who have worked or do work for the BBC are kept on quite a tight leash. Is it impossible for you to talk about this, Gabby, or have you

got a view? Well, I can only really talk about myself because I don't I had Gary on my Midpoint podcast actually and it was about three weeks before the the weekend that the Gary weekend happened and you know he was talking about at that time having in talks with the BBC about things he'd said previously and how that was going to kind of all pan out not knowing that this was coming down the track or what happened was coming down the track. He's got a lot of followers and, you know, what he says obviously cuts through across the media. And I'm, you know, personally, I'm always quite careful about what I say online. People have seen, you know, some of the terrible

things that people like Gary have said to them on social media. And, you know, how you deal with that and how you come back at people obviously can have a big impact, can't it? You know, if you're an expert, if you're expressing an opinion, there is that whole kind of stick to what you know thing, which in his case, people perceive to be football. But he has interests and and is a very well-read and very urbane man who doesn't just want to talk about football. I mean, you're quite urbane and you're quite well-read. And there are just things that you wouldn't say because you know that I suspect that the BBC would have a right old go at you for doing it. Yeah, I suppose they've not come to speak to me, you know, so I must be at the moment towing kind of you know the

right the right line and for them not getting into anything is there anything you'd like to say now Gabby that's a highly highly controversial nature on Times Radio feel free I don't feel like I have you know a plaster across my lips I don't feel like I'm being um you know kept you know something that I really want to say kept at bay I suppose if I had something really strong to say about something, I might discuss it with the people I work with first to see if it was appropriate to talk about. I do feel there should be a difference between sport and people who are presenting the news, because if you're presenting the news, you are talking directly about those stories. But I also understand that people who work for BBC,

you know, have a responsibility. And I think the results of the review that they're carrying out in the light of what happened on the Gary weekend should give us some more clarity on that. And I'm sorry if that sounds like a party line, but I think it will give us more clarity because it felt to me like the department was kind of, you know, in two camps about this.

And that means that there is a disagreement about what should and shouldn't be said. So let's find out what they say and then i'll be back on to tell you exactly what i think about oh excellent leveling up that's what we're working on our guest this afternoon is the sports presenter gabby logan uh gabby your husband kenny had prostate cancer and serious surgery for it really quite recently, something that both you and him have spoken really openly about. First of all, how is he?

He's very well. Yes, he's very good. I think it takes a lot more than, I think, when you go through something like that. We both realised in the months afterwards that we approached it with a very kind of sportsman's-like approach. We were kind of, right, OK, he's going to be, you know, he's going to be fit and well. He's going to attack this as if it's like a training exercise and he's going to do everything he's supposed to do to come through it physically. But of course, there's an emotional toll and a certain amount of trauma, actually, that you go through that you don't realize until the months later. So it's nearly a year now. And I think it really has taken a year to get him kind of back to where he wants to be. in a year to get him kind of back to where he wants to be. And, you know, there were kind of moments of self-doubt and you start, you know, kind of worrying about things, I think, to do with

what intrinsically it is to be a man, you know, because obviously the prostate is so tied up with that. And luckily for him, you know, he's come through it really well. But, you know, he's had a lot of people contact him through doing the podcast we did together about it who haven't had as easy a ride and people who are kind of worrying about it and going into it. So I think we, we, we realized that we're very lucky that he found it when he did and that, um, that he's made a really good recovery. And, um, I didn't realize just how wide ranging prostate cancer was until, you know, it's like one of those things until it affects you, you know, and you start reading about it. Um, it's enormous, isn't it, in this country

and obviously globally as well. There are pockets of the world where it seems to be worse than others. But Kenny is a lucky man, I think. And he also seemed to be very keen, Gabby, and you yourself, to talk just in normal language as well about what prostate cancer can mean for men and for the partners of men as well. And I did read a piece that was in The Sun, and it was so full of all of those euphemistic phrases about in the bedroom and, you know, how it would affect him downstairs. And I mean, I guess to draw it back to what you're trying to do with the podcast about money,

you know, those phrases, they just make you cringe, don't they? Because we all know what you're trying to say so why not actually just say it now yeah I don't think I did an interview with the son I can't remember saying those things well it might have been picked up I mean heaven forbid a newspaper would pick up something yeah so I mean I may well I think they were their euphemisms not yours no absolutely sorry it was the son's euphemisms for it. No, when clearly your husband was actually trying to talk really honestly and normally, but the son was using those phrases. And I say that as somebody who's working in the same building as my colleagues on that newspaper. Yeah, I'm glad we cleared that up because I thought, gosh, Kenny couldn't have been more honest.

You know, when we did the podcast, he definitely didn't kind of talk in riddles or code. But I I guess it's still uncomfortable for people to to have those direct conversations and and talk about what that actually means. And and actually in midlife, generally, those things in long term relationships change, don't they? And and it can kind of draw your attention to that. I think I was talking to a friend the other day who's been married about the same amount of time as me, which is coming up 22 years. And we were saying how, you know, I think we see that, you know, the confidence of your partner can be affected by that and kind of what it means to you can still be, you know, massively loving and be really, you know, demonstrative in terms of how much you still have um you know great respect and affection and love for the person that you're with but things might change in in other areas but um i suppose it kind of hits home when something like having your prostate removed means it's an

immediate kind of change in the relationship and um as i say he's he's been very lucky that things for him have have got back to pretty much close to normal. This sounds really patronising, but I think he has been unusually brave, hasn't he? Because it isn't, quote, normal for particularly for sportsmen to be just so upfront and honest about it all. Well, that's why he wanted to do it. Because what happened was, I don't know if you know, he found out that he had prostate cancer indirectly by listening to a podcast I'd done with Davina McCall, where she talked very candidly about the menopause and he came in from a walk with the dog

and said so hang on a minute if women's hormones drop off what happens to men and I said oh go see somebody I'm kind of busy in my office I said well men are fine they just you know it goes it all changes much more slowly and you won't notice a massive hormonal drop off in the same way but why don't you go and have a kind of men's health checkup? And he did. And they said to him, your hormones are fine, mate, but your PSA is really not very good. It's a bit higher than it should be. We want to do some more investigations. And so he credits listening to that with what somebody might perceive to be a women's kind of episode, if you like, on a podcast with sending him to, because he had no symptoms otherwise. And that's what he found out about prostate cancer sending him to because he had no symptoms otherwise and that's

what he found out about prostate cancer that often there can be no symptoms till it's too late so once he said to me look once I'm through all of this and I feel like I've you know got to a point where um I can I'd like to talk about it because I feel like as an ex-sports person people perhaps wouldn't expect you to talk in those terms and and that he knows he's got a very male audience you know and and actually a lot of's got a very male audience you know and and actually a lot of women have listened to the episode and handed it to their other halves or they've given it to you know uncles or dads and um so it's been um for him i think um it makes it feel worthwhile you know that he he's gone through something that he can share his experience and and

he's he's a very open person anyway so he didn't have any kind of trouble talking about it but once it was right to talk about it. And also, like a lot of people, you go through those experiences, you want to give enormous credit to the people that helped you. You know, his urologist, Declan Cahill, was so brilliant on the podcast and talked in also very candid terms about what it means. And I think it's quite hard to get consultants to open up and talk in that way. So he was brilliant. to open up and talk in that way. So he was brilliant.

And I hope it continues to help anybody who might have got a diagnosis of or wants to try and get somebody in their life to go and, you know, kind of have a test if they think there might be something wrong. Gabby Logan there, BBC sports presenter, former gymnast and brilliantly successful podcaster. Now, we are having an email special this week, aren't we? Oh, we are.

So we probably ought to just make, so we are conscious, email special this week, aren't we? Oh, we are. So we probably ought to just make... So we are conscious... If only I was conscious. I'm sounding like perhaps... Let's start the whole thing again. We should say we've got an email special this week, which I think we're recording on Thursday lunchtime. So if you want to be part of that

and you're very angry that your email hasn't been read out, you can either send it in again or you can send up a fresh thing because we'll have a bit of time and space to plough through everybody's emails. Not that we aren't reading them all, we are, honestly, but there just isn't the time, is there? No, not on

this podcast, so we won't be having a big guest, we will just be talking through some of the emails and I would say actually that we've got some very, very carefully curated folders, Jane yes into which different topics have gone and we'll look back through all of them so probably not necessary to send the same email again but if you've got a new thing that you'd like for our consideration can you tell

there how i very gently completely and utterly undermined what james just said you just have haven't you no because i'm thinking, if 250 emails arrive overnight, that makes it a bit hard work for our producers. And hard work for us, which is the last thing I'd want. I'm not in work to work hard. I come to get away from the, you know, roasting cauliflowers. So email specials. So if you've been holding out in the hope that we'll read your email

and introduce your subject to our lovely listeners and our wonderful Offair community. Then this is the week it could happen. And lots of people have drawn attention, as I think you mentioned also on Saturday. We were talking about when people don't hold hands with their parents or grandparents anymore. And there was that lovely moment at the coronation when Jill Biden held her granddaughter's hand in public. And a lot of people rather like that. And her granddaughter's got the rather unusual name Finnegan. Where's that from, Jane?

Finnegan Beginnigan. I don't know. I think the American... No, no, stop. No, no, no. I think it's Isle of Wight. No. Isle of Wight.

It's Irish, isn't it? Of course it's Irish. Oh, of course. Oh, I see. Sorry. Enough with the Irish from the Biden family. Oh, yeah. Enough.

Blimey, that was ridiculous. Sorry. Anyway. Joe. Blimey, that was ridiculous. Sorry. Anyway, Jo. Shuffle papers, go home. Good night. Good night. You did it. Elite listener status for you for getting through another half hour or so

of our whimsical ramblings. Otherwise known as the hugely successful podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. We missed the modesty class. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler, the podcast executive producer. It's a man. It's Henry Tribe. Yeah, he's an executive.

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