Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Horribly exposed to Ned's bits - with Monty Don

Episode Date: November 7, 2022

We waited...and waited..and waited for Rishi Sunk to make an appearance at Cop27 - and whilst he pondered his speech Jane and Fi discussed the power of medical maggots. Honestly.Also, they were spoke to the Don of gardening, lovely Monty, who was joined by his puppy Ned, to talk about his new book Venetian Gardens.They also discussed the power of allotments for community spirit, the changing influence of gardening on climate change, and how to combat the effects of Seasonal Affective Disorder.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Radio Producer: Rosie CutlerPodcast Executive Producer: Ben Mitchell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, good evening, hope you're all right. It's Off Air with me, Jane Garvey. And me, Fee Glover. It says here, Jane, anything not mentioned in the show? To be honest, no, we mentioned everything. Everything was mentioned in the show. I mean, it's one of those... Because? Well, because we spent the whole show on Times Radio,

three till five, Monday to Thursday, don't miss it, talking about Rishi Sunak about to speak at COP27. And with the best one in the world, even if he had spoken, it wouldn't have been like the greatest moment of my life. And I don't mean the man any disservice by saying that and also i hugely appreciate the importance of the environment and climate change and tackling it well said sister thank you but let's be clear we were working ourselves up into a frenzy about a speech by a politician and kept we kept saying yep rishi any any moment now. Any moment now.

What do you know? It was no moment now because it didn't happen in our time. And for all I know, maybe it still hasn't happened. So we have squeezed dry the tea towel that was mopping up other stories this afternoon. We don't have anything else to talk about, do we? We went through maggots. We had a serious conversation. I really like the show for this.

We had quite a serious conversation about the use of non-medical maggots and medical maggots on wounds I couldn't help thinking that my ignorance is being horribly exposed on a number of occasions today and I kind of know that's what we're paid for occasionally to sound like idiots and I

certainly ticked that box this afternoon I think that's fair to say but you were an answer over the weekend because it was a really, I don't know about you, but it's such a dreary weekend of housework. I mean, the endless washing and trying to dry stuff and the rain was utterly relentless. It simply didn't stop raining all weekend.

I went to Sainsbury's, a well-known supermarket. I went to another well-known supermarket because we needed something I couldn't get. It was that kind of a weekend. Yeah, you're right. It was dull, Jane. No, it was properly, extraordinarily dull. One of the good things that happened was that you were an answer in a well-known newspaper's crossword.

But not this newspaper. But not this newspaper, no. So we're not going to mention it, but it's one of the other newspapers that's around, apparently. And slightly irritatingly for me, but Fee was an answer in a crossword. I've never really done crosswords. I'm not just saying that because you were an answer in one. No. Never been a big thing for me. Well, you just either get them and get addicted to them or you don't. I don't, you know, you can't, you can't do crosswords if you can't finish them no there'll be no point but they are brilliantly good aren't they keeping your brain in gear so it is really something that perhaps i should get well i've been trying to connect you to

wordle since wordle began and you're just you're quite a refuse nick on lots of things garvey then i am i'm a late adopter yes yeah and then you adopt adopt them and they're the best thing since sliced bread. So I'm waiting for that to happen with Wordle, which I'm quite bored of actually. 15 years with your Wordle and I'll see whether I'm up for it. We did have a guest today. It was a very good guest. It was Monty Don and we'll hear from him in a moment or two.

But a lot of people have emailed and we're very grateful to you for emailing us, by the way. It's janeandfee at times.radio. And we know that you may well have heard us somewhere else that's a fact isn't it that is and welcome aboard because we were nervous let's be honest about this uh about whether or not people who'd listened to a previous podcast would necessarily uh jump aboard this one so if you, then it's lovely to have you. And we are just going to carry on doing what we do. Yes. And join in at our age. It's too late to change. Yeah, I mean,

I couldn't even finish that sentence. No, you couldn't think of anything else. I thought you were excellent, can I say, in the first half hour of the programme today, and I was absolutely useless. So we kind of, it's a yin and yang, we counterbalance, we help each other out where we can. We do, don't we? Thank God you're here. Well, likewise. Anyway, this is from Rachel, who says, how quickly five years of a brilliant podcast have gone. I can't believe the last episode of Fortunately dropped last Friday. And I was surprised to be a bit tearful at the end, which isn't me at all. I think it's because you've been loyal companions through a pretty lonely lockdown when I was pregnant and I couldn't leave the house.

And then through the tough early months with a new baby, I'd look forward to Friday every week and also revisit old episodes in the early hours of the morning for company. And I can't express how much this meant to me during these times. Well, Rachel, thank you, because if I mean, that's just exactly what it was for, isn't it? It's brilliant that it served that purpose. what it was for, isn't it? It's brilliant that it served that purpose. I am now enjoying you every day on Times Radio and the journalistic freedom you have to interview a whole range of interesting guests. Wishing you continued success. That's from Rachel. Rachel, thank you again. Really much appreciate that. And I am loving the fact that I can say that I think Gavin Williamson's a pillock. You know, it's just absolutely brilliant that I've suddenly got that freedom and

I'm embracing it. I've got to say. Yes, it has been slightly pick-on Gavin Williamson day to day. I'm sorry, I can't stand it. But I think he can take it. The one thing we didn't mention, actually, was the fact that he has said that maybe one of the reasons, well, he's intimated, hasn't he, that maybe one of the reasons why he sent such a nasty, horrible, foul-language WhatsApp message to the the chief whip was because he was at the

vets with his poorly dog. Do not use your dog as an excuse for vile behaviour. Don't ever do that. And especially if your dog's a kind of an emotional support creature in your Twitter feed, you can't have it both ways. I'd just like to say hello to Kate, who has said that we're probably not going to read out her email on the new podcast but you know who you are and thank you for getting in touch with us. She says during the first episode of the previous podcast you talked about the guests you'd like to have

on. One that I don't think made it on was Karen Brady so she should be one for the new team to book pronto we'll be in touch about that one and she says you've been chatting. She says, you've been my friends chatting to me in my headphones for many years. I love your ramblings, banter and interviews and will miss the show.

But you don't have to anymore, Kate. We're there, Monday to Thursday, three till five. Hello as well to Shelley. She says, you've helped me through dark nights and hard times some years ago with a cheating husband. Happily settled and all good now, but look upon you as my friends bit weird but i just wanted you to know we are here for you shelly and we're here for each other well monday thursday free to fight don't go overboard quite nauseating so our guest today i know you said this week i don't know why our guest because, I know you said this week, I don't know why. Our guest, because of course I've fallen back into podcast mode.

Our guest today was Monty Don. He's a complete gardening legend. He is a fellow who has a way with a linen suit and a jauntily applied scarf. And not every fellow of a certain age can do that. Montague, Montgomery, he can. I think his name is Montague, actually. Is it? Anyway, he came on, accompanied in the corner of his study in Herefordshire

by his new puppy, Ned, who, as you'll hear during the course of the conversation, started to make his own contribution. So we asked how Monty felt, and now that he's finally proved the naysayers who originally opposed him presenting Gardiner's World wrong. I think there was this feeling, and it started with Percy Thrower, I suppose, and lingered on, that somehow, you know, the nation's head gardener should be, have come through the ranks and be a kind of salt of the earth, a kind of butler outside,

wearing a waistcoat and preferably a tie even in the muckiest situation and it was you know I always felt that that was very class-ridden and sort of hidebound and unnecessary and the truth is is that the great joy of British gardening is that it's a nation of incredibly skillful and knowledgeable amateurs gardening at home in their own gardens and the nature of a professional gardener is you garden for other people. Is there a bit of a class element though to gardening in Britain and to attitudes towards gardens and gardeners? Yeah always has been I mean there always has been mean, it's never more evident than Chelsea, and I don't know when it changed, but it was remarkably recently, really, is that a professional gardener couldn't enter plants at Chelsea.

They always entered in the name of their employer. So you would have Lord and Lady Diddleypush winning gold medals at Chelsea for something that they probably had nothing to do with. Yeah, I mean, every aspect of British life, sooner or later, hits the rocks of class. And gardening is no exception. But I do think that is changing. And I think that one of the great joys of the last 10 years or so is that there's a new generation coming through sort of the age of my children in their sort of early 30s um that

absolutely have none of that and and i'm just not interested in that kind of attitude it's just irrelevant i just see in the background there a beautiful dog fast asleep already lulled into... Who's that? Which one is that? That's Ned. Oh, the new one. He's a puppy. Yes.

He's a puppy. Ned, are you asleep? Yes. Thank you very much. Surrounded by bits of paper, which you probably can't see. Oh, he's just woken up. He's woken up. Ned?

Neddy? Ned? Come and say hello. Come here. Good boy. Come on. Come here. He's very sleepy.

I don't know why. Come here, Ned. This is absolutely gripping. He's very sleepy. I don't know why. Come here, Ned. This is absolutely great. It's golden radio. But Ned is trying to. Yes, I was going to say, nothing could work better on radio than this, could it? I was going to say I wasn't any good at commentary, and I've completely failed again in the audition. Do you know what?

Ned's not going to play ball with us either. No, Ned's not playing ball. He's actually, he said if it's not television, he's not going to do it. Okay, fair enough. He's an absolute, I'll have a word with him later. So your book about Venice and the gardens there, I mean, it's an obvious question, but when I think Venice, I don't think gardens.

So these gardens in Venice are hidden, are they? What kind of gardens are they? Yeah, I mean, you say it's the obvious, but the reason why we've done the book was because Venice, for all its incredible beauty, is not normally yoked with gardens in most visitors' minds. And yet they are there, hundreds of gardens. They tend to be hidden away.

They tend to be glimpsed as you pass by on a boat. You just see a bit of a courtyard or greenery through a gate, tantalising, and then you glide past and glide on. And we wanted to get into as many of those as we could um inevitably there were some that we couldn't visit and that we really wanted to and uh others that we didn't know about that we discovered but they're there and they tend to be small they tend to be private but in many ways that's their charm you know the fact that they're not great sort of set pieces and yet are intimate and small and have history.

And like the rest of Venice, very often they're slightly crumbling. You know, there's an air of decay, which I think very much adds to their charm. It sounds very misty and alluring, doesn't it? You say in the book that Venetians are a very secretive people. And I suppose when I read that, I thought I kind of know that, but I don't know why. Why would they be secretive?

I think it's partly because Venice is obviously, it's a series of islands and it's always been cut off. And they have always seen themselves as independent of the rest of the world. I mean, they call anyone who doesn't live in Venice foreigners. So, you know, the mainland of Italy was always a foreign country for most of the history of Venice. So it, by default, secluded, insular, introverted, cut off, and suspicious of the outside world. And of course, was immensely successful. I mean, for most of its history, Venice has been rich and powerful.

The Republic of Venice stretched right into the Ottoman world and the trade that it did, you know, into the Middle East, the Levant as it was, and up the Adriatic, made it rich and powerful. So it sort of garnered up these riches. And the other thing about Venice was that it had its own system of government. It was a republic. It didn't have kings and queens. And it was based upon trading. There was no aristocracy.

Anybody could be a trader. So there was this very intricate, hermetic world that didn't need the outside world very much. They were self-sufficient. And so how does that pan out? And does it influence the way that many Venetians feel now about people coming to look at their city? I mean, there are a lot of people who live there who believe that the city is being ruined by tourism. There's just too many people going. Where does that leave you as someone who's kind of advertising their wares? Well, like everybody else, confused and slightly sad, actually.

I mean, Venice is still, I think, the most beautiful city in the world. It's undoubtedly in decline. The population now, I think, is down to about 50,000. And that's less than half of what it was in its prime. Things like Airbnb are disastrous, because people are finding that it's more economic to go and live on the mainland and rent out their houses and then come into there. So they stop living there. There are far fewer and fewer. By the way, can you see in the puppy on this radio program? What is he up to now?

He is making love in a sort of completely platonic way to a shoe. Yes, I did notice he was giving something really good going over there. I tell you what, we do not want to describe his pose currently. We absolutely don't. Although I've got… It's uninhibited. It certainly is. It's revealing most of his best assets.

Oh, dear. He's a three-month-old puppy. He's innocent. He's a child. Let's go back to Venice before we get way too far it's I love the way can we get back on board let's get back on board with the doges please thank you the thing about Venice is that it is sinking.

The population is leaving. The population is getting older. There's not much there for young people. There are fewer and fewer sort of corner shops and groceries and all the sort of normal retail and entertainment facilities that you need to sustain a population. It's the most wonderful place to visit in the world, and yet it's not very good to live in.

But I have to put it to you that this book is not going to discourage visitors, is it? No, but that's the catch-22. I mean, it's Venice. This is not a new story. This has been going on arguably since the end of the 17th century. Venice's decline absolutely took place throughout the 18th century and into the 19th and the 20th. So that we all go to admire its decline.

We all go to celebrate the romanticism of Venice slowly slipping into ruination. And we, I guess, are complicit in that. Monty, can you rejoin us? Is that OK? Yes, it is. I'm struggling with a... I'm going to have to put Ned down because he's getting wriggly.

But he's a very handsome boy. He's a lovely, incredibly, incredibly appealing dog. How old is he now, Monty? He is now, what, 15 weeks? Oh, my gosh. Growing all the time. He's still so bouncy. So bouncy.

And wants to go out and run. Okay, down you go. Go on. That's a good boy. Whoa, there you go. Right, he's gone back to the shoe. Yeah, don't mind us. I'm back on the road.

I'm with you. You're on tour at the moment, aren't you? You've had a whole range of dates over the weekend. Yes, back yesterday i was in newcastle yesterday morning and then i was speaking in salford yesterday afternoon and i've been in harrogate i've been in oxford i've been in hereford okay and what is the most common question which one crops up time i don't take questions no no well not on tour i never take a question don't you no I don't actually because um I do a sort of stage show I do a I do a one-man show and it slightly breaks the spell if then people start to talk about their fungus or their um you obviously haven't been to one of our shows want to which are littered with

exactly that sort of thing we welcome fungus straight. It goes down very well. Straight into the fungus. And also the truth is that when you go answer any gardening questions, and I do do sort of question and answer things in some places, it's always about things that are very, very important to individuals, but usually out of 2,000 people in the audience, there are only three other people who are remotely interested um and i'm often not one of them i'm amazed gardener's question time has lasted so long on that other station well it's there is it's a state of mind so i try and um entertain and inform and generally sort of, you know, make them laugh, make them cry and share that. So if we then go down the road of why something isn't flowering

or fruiting or growing or doing what you want it to do, I always feel that's a bit of not really what's needed. Are you paying a great deal of attention to what happens at COP27? Well, yes and no, because I tend to think my thought is that there are a lot of people spending a lot of money and energy doing a lot of talking and not achieving very much. Ned, come here. Come here. So what, you wouldn't do it at all or you'd do it virtually? I'd do it virtually. Why not? We're doing this virtually. We've all learned to do things

virtually. Yes yes you do have what sorry about this it's not the best time to be advertising a virtual interview swings and roundabouts isn't it you've got to leave to go and sort out your dog I wonder whether Rishi will have that problem

at just got four dogs the thing is I feel like everybody else uh climate change and what we have to do about it is incredibly uh present and important and is is not something that is vaguely for politicians to do i also think that it's not something that extreme dramatic action is going to change we all have to change in lots and lots of different ways. And the way that we're going to change the world is by getting everybody to buy into it rather than lecturing people about what they ought to do

or must do, however urgent it is. You know, you only make people change when they decide that they want to change. And I think that's a real problem. And that's something that politicians and people like you, people like me, have to play our part in. Yeah. So one of the most effective ways... There is a strong element of comedy about this. There is, isn't there? I'm going to battle on with this serious question, though, if you don't mind.

One of the most effective ways to get people to change their behavior is to to nudge them through positivity so you know you spend your life I believe doing something that you really absolutely love out in the natural world what would you say to someone who doesn't have access to that kind of world which would something that would make them better understand why it is important to change well we we all consume food and food that is grown i mean all food one way or another comes out of the ground so that i mean one of the problems with modern life is the great disconnect that most people have with the food they eat whereas gardeners it's an entry into a very direct form of connection. So we need to educate our children about how to grow food,

where it comes from, how it's seasonality, freshness, and all that kind of thing. And also, you know, we all use plastic, we all travel, we all use oil, we share these things, and there is no demarcation line. It's all connected. It's not, you know, one of the things that is happening actually with gardening, which is a very good thing, is that the new generation in the 20s and 30s don't have gardens and very often see no chance of having access to owning a house with a garden, but they still love plants. They still might even have pot plants or house plants. They go for walks, they travel, they see things,

and they are connected. On top of that, in a much more sort of obvious way, I would love it if a government took much more seriously the role of allotments in people's lives. So people who don't have gardens could go and do it. I went and visited an allotment in people's lives. So people who don't have gardens could go and do it. I went and visited an allotment in Knaresborough on Saturday. There were over a hundred allotments. It was a grey, rainy November day and it was beautiful and brilliant. And there were allotments for individuals, there were allotments for groups, there were allotments for children, for old age pensioners, for people with problems and difficulties. It worked on every level as a communal good.

So I think, you know, it's a multi-pronged thing. I don't think there's one true way. And I think the solution to the enormous problem of climate change is all of us working together in a cooperative way, lots and lots of small changes rather than the drama of rushing off the cop 20 whatever it is um spouting around making pledges and they're not keeping them it's waste of time and energy can we just have a quick question about i think you have said that you have seasonal affective disorder i know you've talked in the past about depression and for a lot of people this this is such this is easily the armpit of the year,

isn't it, November? It sure is. It's dark in about 10 minutes. From now till Christmas is the worst time of year. Yeah, so it's a thing. It's a genuine thing. I mean, at the moment, I feel fine, so thanks be to that. But I think one of the things you have to do,

although it feels counterintuitive at the time, is just get outside. Get into what light there is. Go for a walk. If it's driving rain, go for a walk. Walk in the park. Walk in your street if there are trees. Just move, get outside, and also try and see people, talk to people. outside and also try and see people talk to people um and i think also except you know plants have a hibernation time except that we all need a time when we don't feel great when we're not at

our best but that's all right because it will get better and again that's the great lesson you get from gardening is these things might be quite bad but they can get better. It is possible. And if you have faith in that, then that carries you through some of the darker days. But it's not easy. And I have enormous sympathy and empathy for anyone who's going through a hard time at the moment. One final question, taking us back to Venice, Monty. You seem to be a man who is deeply rooted in the land.

Could you ever live in a watery city? No. Thank you very much. I need the soil. I need the land. Could you ever live in a watery city? No. Thank you very much. I need the soil. I need the soil. Venice is beautiful to visit, but I don't want to live in any city. And I don't think Ned would like it either.

Get down, you silly boy. Monty Don and his gorgeous new book, and it is gorgeous. It's one of those books that genuinely is a thing of beauty. Venetian Gardens. Venetian Gardens. Venetian Gardens. Not Viennetta,

which is for some reason all I could think of when I saw Venetian written down. Oh, I'm mad at Viennetta. Anyway, it's out now. Oh my word. One listener, Dale, did write in to say

I found it very difficult to follow most of Monty's interviews. My two border collies are very interested in the puppy in the room that they couldn't see. Very funny. Ned is extremely cute though.

And he really was. And I think Monty did quite well to persevere. Although I think he was also quite helped by having an effusive, distracting dog in front of him. I might bring Nancy to work on difficult days and see what happens. Well, you'd be very welcome to. I should say that I think, well, Monty, we do talk about it in the interview. He does suffer from depression and seasonal affective disorder. And as we

discussed, this is just, it's a low point in most people's year, isn't it? November, there is something about it. And actually, as we're broadcasting at the moment between three and five, the skies just get darker and darker and then before you know it it's it is actually dark and you have to have a nerves of steel not to feel a bit brought down by it yeah oh no totally and and if you've sought refuge in the love of a decent animal then you know all hail to you and you know take it to work if you can yes i mean without being too, there were times during the interview when we were both horribly exposed to Ned's bits. So, you know, I can only

have a lady dog in my house, Jane. When I had the choice up at the rescue home when I was choosing my greyhound, I just thought, I just cannot have that in the house. I can't have a creature that's going to cock off. Well, Nancy's with us for life now. Okay, owners of male dogs, you know what you can do.

It's janeandfee at times.radio. Oh, anything more from me needed? Do you want to talk about tomorrow? Oh, on tomorrow's show. Michael Palin. Michael Palin. Yeah, looking forward to that. That will be very exciting.

And you pointed me in the direction of his new series on TV, which is a travelogue around Iraq. And it's amazing. I'm grateful to you for that. And we will also do most Google questions. Dicky dodgy, but seems to be all right so far. And heroes and villains with Asma Mir. I love Asma Mir.

You have been listening to Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Ben Mitchell. Now you can listen to us on the free Times Radio app or you can download every episode from wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget that if you like what you heard and thought, hey, I want to listen to this, but live, then you can, Monday to Thursday, 3 till 5, on Times Radio. Embrace the live radio jeopardy. Thank you for listening, and hope you can join us off air very soon.

Goodbye.