Off Air... with Jane and Fi - I can't cope with your youthful success - with Cecelia Ahern

Episode Date: April 12, 2023

Ed Vaizey, who's sitting in for Jane today, is impressed by Fi's youthful success - Fi's trying not to be offended.Ed's also kicking himself that he didn't get a selfie with today's big guest, author Cecelia Ahern, who's just released her 19th novel 'In a Thousand Different Ways'.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Producer: Kea BrowningTimes Radio Producer: Kate Lee Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. So I've got some... Hello, by the way.

Hello. Hello, hello. And goodbye. Hello and goodbye. In so many ways. Yep. My two brief appearances on this award-winning, record-breaking podcast.

Yep, are over. Just about to be yes have you enjoyed your time on air been amazing offer yes it's been amazing apart from monday when you went in and tomorrow where i stupidly i was going to hosting a lunch so i decided to carry on doing that instead of cancelling it and spending four days doing the show which would be lovely now what's the lunch are we allowed to know or is it top secret it's not top secret it's just a sort of um i've got matt dancona coming to speak do you remember him i think so yeah that's a terribly damning former editor of the spectator speaking to a i do yes a group of uh friends of mine okay well that's very nice because you shouldn't really say,

I think you're the same age as me, aren't you, 54? Do you affect the language of the teenager? I behave like a teenager. Oh, do you? Yes. I'm an incredibly immature person. Would you say? I had no idea we were the same age,

but it sounds like I'm now being rude to you. It does. But the point is, I was serious about the fact that I kind of grew up with you in the sense that when I started, I guess I was a little Tory boy in my early 30s and I'd appear on your show. I suppose I couldn't get my, I can't get my head around that you were hosting an award-winning multi-million listener show in your early 30s. But of course, why not?

Why not? Well, it's worse than that, actually. Because I started doing the breakfast show at GLR when I was 24. And Jane's the same. So she was in her mid-20s when she did her breakfast show at Beavisley, Hereford and Worcester. You were the Cecilia Ahern of broadcasting, but I get ahead of myself. Yeah, yeah. But I do feel a bit bad about that,

because you're basically saying that you've spent the last couple of days But I get ahead of myself. Yeah, yeah. But I do feel a bit bad about that, because you're basically saying that you've spent the last couple of days thinking, God, she's really old. No, no. I thought you said you feel bad because I can't cope with your youthful success. Yeah, no, don't be silly. Anyway, look, here we go. This is someone who wishes to remain anonymous, who has sent us an email saying,

Good morning. I'm on holiday in Donegal, which is maybe like the east of Scotland, or is it the west? Or maybe it's even better than those, as it's spectacular, in my opinion. Are you an east coast of Scotland person or a west coast of Scotland person, Ed? Well, I'm a Donegal person. I mean, Donegal is spectacularly beautiful, but she's talking about donna gall in northern ireland she is but we've been having a previous discussion about east versus west i'm an east coast oh excellent yes i'm an east coast uh anyway says

anonymous i was driving to northern ireland to see relatives by myself for once hence i was able to listen to endless episodes joy of joys firstly the one about the nasa scientists which was so interesting then the one about suzanne hayward age as me, but made my childhood growing up in the 1970s and 80s in Belfast seem so boring. Then on the way home, I didn't think there could be anything as interesting, but there was Alice Wynne, again, fascinating. Back to reality next week. I'm a secondary school teacher in england thanks for keeping me sane last term i often listen to you on the way home and you nearly always to help and you nearly always helped stressful term due to starting new job in january several health issues and three teenagers

at home that does sound like quite a lot and you've also just read at the table which is one of jane's recommendations and you want to say thank you for that and you've also also just read At the Table, which is one of Jane's recommendations. And you want to say thank you for that. And you've also also just read I Feel Bad About My Neck by Nora Ephron. And I just wanted to read your email out loud for exactly that reason, Anonymous. It is probably my favourite nonfiction book of all time. And I'm glad it made you laugh out loud a lot too. Is that Nora Ephron's autobiography? Well, it's a collection of essays that span nearly her entire career actually.

There are a couple of early ones to do with Watergate and her knowledge of that as a journalist and it goes all the way through to some of the very funny ones that she wrote about ageing and that's what the title refers to. And this is a newspaper column that she wrote about aging and that's what the title refers to and this is a newspaper column that she wrote so yes so some of them are newspaper columns and some of them i think were actually written specifically for that book but it's one of her best compilations and every single one oh ed you should i might go and order off the old amazon superb yeah and and i'll go to my local bookshop which might not might not have it. Yes, no, please do that. Obviously, please do that.

I think if you ever wanted to read a book that just allows you inside the female brain, in a very clever, funny way, for me, it would always be Nora Ephron. But she's very funny anyway. Oh, she's super funny. Even if you're a man. Yes. And At the Table, what's all that about? Oh, so At the Table is a recommendation of a novel from Jane Garvey.

Who's it by? I can't remember. I want to say Emma Powell, but I've not read it myself. Keir is handily going to the-Google it, and we'll make sure that we get it right. Should I read that? Yes, please. Could you?

Chris Aram. She doesn't want to remain anonymous. Going out and about by yourself with Jenny A. Clare. My husband died in November very sorry to hear that Chris and I'm slowly

getting used to living alone next week I'm going to theatre by myself to see Paul Young in conversation and indeed hopefully singing quite right

I hope he does sing I'll let you know how it goes yes please do I won't be here but Fi will want to know how it goes love the podcast

it's kept me entertained during many a low time. That's good to hear, isn't it? It is. People really like your podcast, don't they? I've upset you again, haven't I? I mean it. It's kind of part of their lives.

We've got a really lovely community out there. Really, really lovely, like-minded, and we tell each other everything and we're really really thrilled actually with our audience it's by claire powell at the table and you know i should just say that jane got if claire powell's listening or a friend of claire powell's is listening jane got your name wrong first of all i've learned now couldn't remember your name we're not doing well apparently it is a brilliant book uh right shall we head straight to uh our interview today would you like to reintroduce it it was with a really fantastic

author whose success you just it's almost mind-boggling how successful this young woman is isn't it yeah i mean cecilia uh ahern everyone has kind of heard of kind of young or old because she not only published her first novel when she was 21, but that got turned into, I think, quite a well-known movie, P.S. I Love You. Anyway, she's published a novel every year since. She's published 19 novels, and she's sold 25 million of them. So she is, you know, a global best-selling novelist.

So it was a great privilege to have her in, and she was absolutely charming. Her latest novel, She she says is her best uh it charts the young adult life of her heroine alice who's trying to negotiate a world as delta quite a few poor hands her father's left she has a mother with mental health problems she has an out of control younger brother and alice not only feels the pain and emotion of the world around her she can literally see it in a range of colours emanating from everyone and sometimes everything. So we began by asking if it ever got tiring hearing about the enormous sales numbers that I've just been banging on about. Never. I mean, I wish you could be in my office with me every day just as a welcome.

Here's your little bio and that would give me the ego boost to write for the rest of the day. You could take a recording of what Fee just said. Yes. You could have it on your iPhone. I think I will. We all need that every now and then. Astonishing success. I mean, it's just, it is enormous, isn't it?

It actually is, yeah. Sometimes, yeah, I take a moment. Usually when I'm sitting at my desk about to write, I just think, how lucky am I? You know, it's, I love writing, I would do it regardless. And the fact that I can get to do it as a job is, is incredible. And those numbers are phenomenal. But it helps to have, you know, I have a shelf of my books in my office. And sometimes when, when the ink kind of goes dry in my pen, I look up and I go, Cecilia, you've done this before, you can do it again. So it is helpful to have that history.

And is that metaphorical ink in your pen or are you actually writing writing? I actually write, yes. So I still write longhand. I love pen on paper. I mean, I love physically writing. I think I'm a very visual writer. So when I'm seeing the picture in my head of what I'm writing and then writer so when I'm I'm seeing the picture in

my head of what I'm what I'm writing and then I'm just documenting what I'm seeing so um typing for me always felt quite mechanical so I write longhand a chapter and then I transcribe then I edit edit as I go along right that's remarkable you must be one of the few writers still doing that I mean I'll never be a hand model with these bumpy, lumpy writer fingers. But it's just really satisfying. I really like, you know, I learned cursive writing in primary school and that's the way I like to keep it. And do you think it's different as well?

Because it's a slightly slower connection, isn't it, between your brain and your hand. If you're typing, you can probably do far more words a minute. So do you think that helps in the way it goes on the page the pace of it yes i think it really helps it gives me more time to think um more time to you know structure the sentence figure out what it is i'm trying to say uh to formulate the thoughts absolutely i mean i write better than i speak so you're speaking we don't want to spend too much time on this, but obviously everyone is always fascinated by a writer's routine. I mean, are you a nine to five,

go up to my study, shut the door, break for a salad at one? I used to be, actually. I used to be very regimental like that, but I do have three kids, so it changes, you know, depending on what's going on in their lives. So, right now, I think I write about four hours a day at each sitting. I'll write a chapter.

But I'm very, you know, very, I suppose, disciplined in that I begin usually a book in January, which is due in May, and I edit for the summer, and then it's usually published in the autumn. But we've changed the date now to April, so I will stick to something similar to that, but that's how I've been able to write the one book a year. And it's quite rhythmic.

It certainly is. Tell us a little bit more about this book then and why you believe it to be your best work yet. I know that sounds very egotistical, doesn't it? But I feel it is my best. And I wanted to write a story about what it's like to be empathetic and what it's like to be highly sensitive. And I wanted to, I suppose, explain to people who aren't, many people aren't empathetic or sensitive by using colours as emotions. Because if you can see how someone can transfer

a bad mood or, you know, a mean word or even love, you know, if you can see that being transferred in colour from one person to the next, then it's a bit more powerful or easier to understand so this is the journey that Alice my main character takes she can see people's emotions moods in the form of colors around their bodies and if the color travels to her and gets on her or touches her then she can feel exactly how people are feeling so it kind of she sees it it as very much as a burden. And she tries to shield herself from people, becoming easily overwhelmed by how everyone else in the world is feeling and loses sight of herself. I think it's a really clever book to have written at the moment, because I think we're just starting to understand a bit more, aren't we, about what life is like for really, really empathetic people. what life is like for really, really empathetic people.

It's usually very closely linked to anxiety disorders, actually, isn't it? Because it's that feeling that you take on everything in the world around you. You don't quite have the same barriers that other people have. Yes, and I think that, and I would consider myself empathetic and at times in my life highly sensitive, not always. I think it depends what's going on. And I think before, if you say someone was sensitive, you'd think their feelings get hurt easily or, you know, and that's not the case. I think if you're sensitive, you're picking up on the energy in a room, you know, and that can be just very draining. So people have different ways of working.

Sometimes being part of a team isn't always the most effective way for certain types of people. So I think the more people understand, the better, you know. And I have, you know, three different characters in this book with Alice and her siblings who all deal with it in very different ways. One lets the colours go over his head. Alice is dodging it. And then her younger brother just absorbs everything. And I think even if you were to look at families,

we all kind of grow up in the same way and yet siblings are affected in very different ways. And we wonder how that is because we're just made differently. Some people absorb everything and some people can let it go over their head. So I wanted to just show all that and how we cope differently. Synthase is a real condition, as it were. It's a recognised neurological condition. Some people do see colours or associate colours with different moods

or people. Yes. Because you did some research into it. I was wondering if you'd met people with synesthesia and kind of talked to them about it or anything like that. I do, not in terms of emotions and colour but of course I know people who hear music and see colour

and even then I didn't really want to write a book about that word, by the way, I can't even say synesthesia. I'm going to have to learn how to say it. I've probably said it wrong as well. I kind of explain a few different ways how it could happen, you know, physically or neurologically, you know, if there could be aura migraines or hormones

or that word that I can't say. Synesthesia, I've been told. Oh, synesthesia. I still can't say it. I have a block on it and I should know for the book. And for me as the writer, I think that the character really has developed this as a form of coping, you know, surviving the family home that she's living in. And it is a form of survival because of her environment.

So that is my explanation of it. But I did want to introduce the various different real ways that people kind of are wired differently. Do you return to other characters in previous books in your head sometimes? That's a good question. I think because I'm writing a book a year I don't really I don't return I mean I did write a sequel for PSO Love You which I said I would never do so I did have

to return um but I think I my aim is to bring them to a place where I feel that they're content satisfied and ending on a good note and then I move on to the next journey um but I don't find I've had time to pause and look back on them you know if I took a year out maybe but no I haven't my aim is always to like we were introduced to a character at the lowest point of their life and and I want to bring them to a high I want it to be uplifting And when you're writing them, when you're in a book with them, do they kind of stay with you in the rest of your life as well? Or when you shut the study door, they're inside that? Yes, when I'm writing it, they are absolutely my world.

And that's the magic of writing. I really feel like I'm living in another world with all of these people that I'm so familiar with. And then all of a sudden, yeah, I mean, five o'clock comes or whatever time and it's time to snap out of it and be back in the room again. But it is this lovely feeling of kind of floating in between worlds, but feeling very familiar as if they're a part of me. You know, the characters are not me, but they are created by me.

So there's a part of me in them. So Adele Parks came in to see us a couple of months ago to talk about her latest book, and she said this extraordinary thing, that when she starts writing a novel and creates these characters, she interviews the characters, I mean, in her imagination, to just find out a bit more about them. I thought that was so fascinating,

because I'm not sure I'd really understood just how kind of fully formed a character can be in a writer's imagination. Yeah I am going to say I'm going to sound weird now but I do hear their voice. That sounds so weird. It does sound so weird and it is very weird. So I'll always come up with the premise first for a story and then the character comes then I think oh who would find himself in that position? And that's how the story then develops. And I'm not ready to write until I hear the voice of the character. If something happens one day, whatever I'm doing,

I'll suddenly hear how they sound. Are they sarcastic? Are they cynical? Are they upbeat? Are they negative? I can hear them. And then when that's kind of on a loop in my head, then I know it's time to sit down and start writing because they're ready to speak and tell their story. But yeah, there is a kind of, I need to be able to hear them.

But do you have sort of 10 ideas going around your head at any one time? I mean, to produce a novel every year, the next one must already be in your head already. Yes, it is. So it takes a couple of years for them to be fully cooked. You know, they're simmering away. And this was in my mind for about three years. But I was trying to find, had the idea,

but I didn't know who the character was and I couldn't find the story. So it takes a while. That's interesting. And usually when it comes time to writing the new novel, I would have two and they're kind of battling in my head and it's the story I choose then is the story that is developing the most And are they set always around Dublin and Ireland?

Mostly This is set in London actually so I do move around a bit but they are mostly set in Ireland yeah voiceover describes what's happening on your iPhone screen voiceover on settings so you can navigate it just by listening

books, contacts calendar, double tap to open breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11 and get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. And our guest is Cecilia Ahern. Lots of people will already know this, but some people might not. You are the daughter of a famous politician. Your father is Bertie Ahern, the former Irish Taoiseach. I can never say that word.

Taoiseach. Do you remember a childhood dominated by his work? Oh, yes. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, he was kind of high-profile politics since I was five years old, so that's all I remember. So it was all very normal. And, yeah, we were very aware of it. So life, life, life felt very normal. So I know it doesn't seem normal, but it was normal.

So I read a very lovely piece, you did the relative values piece, didn't you, in the Times at the weekend, where you were saying that, you know, your world was completely dominated by his timetable. And I was reading through it and I kept expecting the bit where you said, and it was terrible, you know, and I had a kind of rebellion against him and it was unfair and whatever. But actually that didn't seem to be your response at all. You seemed to have really enjoyed your time as a political child. Oh, the way I look at it, it was his time, you know, and that's his job.

And we were his children. So it wasn't really our world look at it, it was his time, you know, and that's his job. And we were his children. So it wasn't really our world, you know, it was his. But we got to be, we were always, we were with him, you know, we spent every Sunday with him. So as I was explaining in that piece, we never knew what the Sunday was going to bring.

You know, we'd get into the car with him and he could be opening a sports date somewhere or, you know, opening a hotel or something. something it was always something lots of things in one day that we would go to and um it gave me so much I think insight like we left our bubble as kids and we went to all parts of the country and met all kinds of lovely people and saw the world from their eyes and I think that has given me great insight into um people and humans which is what I do and which is what I write about so no I've no no negative I mean it probably wasn't the easiest for him but that was his job not mine yeah but you met a US president as well I did I met George Bush um actually in the Oval Office oh George Bush

junior junior junior it was wasn't it? I'm just getting trying to sort out my dates. Yes, good, okay. Dad was addressing Congress. Oh you met him in the White House? Yeah we were in the Oval Office which was amazing. I'll never forget that and he was very, George Bush was very welcoming and very, very humorous, actually. Very funny, very kind. So how old were you then? Oh, I was in my 20s then. Right. Oh, wow. Serious stuff.

What's the Oval Office like? Bigger than it is on the West Wing? Smaller? Sofas in the same place? It's funny that you mention the West Wing because me and my husband, we were the biggest West Wing fans and we were binge watching it at that stage. So even though we were in the actual oval office with the actual president we kept looking around

expecting the the cast of the west wing to walk in it kind of felt exactly um everything always feels smaller actually doesn't it when you're when you're there but it it had that same powerful feeling you know it had an aura that you would expect and your dad so george bush has taken up painting your dad has what taken up an allotment what's he doing yes we have a family allotment well he's doing lots of politics stuff but when he's not doing that um yeah there's an allotment which we love he spends a lot of time there with my kids and his grandkids um showing them how things grow which which is very important. So I think, yeah, he's a lot more down time now.

And that's kind of where we spend all our time. Obviously, it's the 25th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement at the moment, which allows for so much reminiscing about political circles. But do you have any kind of personal memories of 25 years ago? Well, yes, actually, it was a very personal time because, well, it wasn't just that week, but for months it was ongoing. I remember kind of the intensity of it and how important it was. But also the week that the Good Friday Agreement was signed was the week that my grandmother died, my dad's mother. So it was quite intense. You know, he'd been travelling up and

down from Dublin to Belfast, to the hospital, to the funeral. It was quite a crazy time. So how he did all that, I have no idea. But it was an amazing week. There was a guy called Tom Kelly who was the spokesman for Blair who was on the radio this week and made that point that your dad had shuttled between Dublin and Belfast and it was seen as a sign of his unbelievable commitment to the peace process

that he's prepared to do that. Yeah, absolutely. He's incredibly dedicated and I'm very proud of him for what they achieved. Yeah, but it can be an unforgiving job, can't it, when you've got stuff going on in your personal life? It is not for the faint-hearted. Beautifully put.

Fee's caused a lot of controversy today by rejecting whistling in songs and i know that you're a singer as well i might whistle better than i said feel free by the way to whistle away to drive me around the bend but with eurovision it's not just april is not just the anniversary of the good friday group it's the month of the eurovision song Contest in Liverpool. How can we forget that? April the 27th, I put it in my diary. You've competed.

Well, I didn't even make it to Eurovision, but I competed in the Euro Song, which was the Irish competition to represent Ireland, to go through to representing Ireland. So I was in a band, a pop band called Shima, which was put together solely to represent the Euro song. We got a record deal and we recorded in Pete Waterman's studios and that was very exciting.

But we did not win and we were subsequently dropped. And my music career was over. Do you think we'll be able to find it before the end of the programme? I'm pretty sure you will. It's haunting me. I'm sure that is the joy of YouTube. Everything is up there somewhere. Would you be embarrassed to hear it again? Don't worry, we haven't got it all lined up, ready to go.

We're not that professional. It keeps popping up. I think now, more than anything, I look back and I go and show my kids, look at Mummy's waist, look at Mummy. I just ignore all the other stuff now, and I'm like, look, look at me young, vibrant, shiny, glossy young thing.

And are they proud of it or are they in that place where they're just embarrassed that, you know, you even exist, let alone on a public kind of place? Actually, funnily enough, my daughter, the 13-year-old said, I think there's, I don't know you two exactly. I think you've got other lives that we don't know about. Yeah, exactly. They're starting to listen now. Dawning realisation. Do you think you have another 19 books in you? Absolutely. Because I can't do anything else. You know, it's just, it's a joy. And I will touch what I can keep coming up with the ideas, but I just think it's, it's in me to write. And it's

how I kind of process the world. So I'm continuously curious and intrigued by things. And as long as I keep that up, then I'll continue to write. But you've dedicated this one to your youngest child. Yes, Blossom. Which presumably means you've now run out of people to dedicate your books to. I'll have to have more babies. So would you like to dedicate it to Fee and me? That's a bit of an ask, Ed.

I would be honoured. Please don't. You've had 19 books you've had to find people to dedicate to. Please don't. You've had 19 books you've had to find people to dedicate. Please don't. You've finally run out. Do you ever worry, though, that that fluency might leave you? Yes, yes. The muse.

I do worry about it. And there's always a point when I'm writing each novel that I think, uh-oh, maybe I won't get to finish this one. Maybe that's it. But I know that I can get through that because I have before. So I think I have to keep exercising that creative part of my brain

as long as I keep that going and I think it can create new ideas. But yes, I do worry about it going and probably someday I will have that problem but I'll deal with that when I come to it. Yeah, not for now. Do you have any top tips of books that you are enjoying reading at the moment? I always love what's on a writer's bedside table.

Oh, gosh, of course. Why didn't I? Or do you just not, can you not read other people's books when you're actually involved in your own? I do actually read. I think that's important. I like to escape. It's like anyone else, you know, when you finish your day's work, you like to escape to another story. So it doesn't, I never listen to radio when I get home. I listen to Times Radio continuously. He's drunk the Kool-Aid. I even text other programmes. Do you? They've stopped reading

out my texts. Have they? Oh dear. Have we got some kind of a klaxon that comes up when your number appears on the screen? It's very, very embarrassing. Well, that was the author Cecilia Hearn. My reflection on Cecilia Hearn is the following. Yes. She was absolutely charming, really nice, really liked her. I'm a massive admirer of her.

I've never actually read any of her novels, but I think what she does and achieves is very interesting she's clearly she's pretty humble you know she's saying how lucky she was to found something that's you know she loves doing which has now become a career I didn't get a selfie oh no you didn't you're right it really put me off the rest of the program thinking a celeb got away from me. Oh, I'm so sorry. But I did get her to sign a copy of her novel. Well, maybe you could just do that as the social media picture.

You just hold up the novel and have a picture of yourself. Oh, yes, because I like that. Yep. Jenny Eclair gave me a very hard time for posting a picture yesterday of her and me and you. And she claims it wasn't a nice photo of her because i was only interested in how i looked but i didn't think i looked that good i mean come on i know but jenny had her eyes shut and as somebody pointed out to me i look like i'm just about to enter a fist fight with somebody you do look like a presidential candidate it's just quite strange i was really amazed at what

cecilia said at the beginning of the interview about the fact that she writes in longhand. Oh, yes, that was interesting. Because I don't know about you, but I'm not sure that I would be able to write a page of longhand and then expect anybody to be able to read it. Yeah, least of all you. I've lost the art of handwriting. I could read my own handwriting. Yeah.

I don't type very quickly because I see you can obviously touch type. I can. And I've never learned to touch type. But I think I would, if I was going to write a book, I would type it on a screen, yes. Yep, yep. But it is interesting, people do like to do that. I think Lee Child writes his books by hand,

but maybe I completely imagined that. Quite a few novelists still do. Interesting. It's part of the ritual. And we did talk a bit about her ritual of work you know the she does four hours a day tries to write a chapter a day i mean it is work and lots of novelists however brilliant and inspired they are treat it you know organize a working day yes and it's definitely a job yeah and i think there are so many authors

aren't there who get really really fed up with people at book signings you know there'll be a whole line of people in front of them go yeah I'm gonna write a book one day I'm gonna try writing but one day and it's kind of like you wouldn't say that to a surgeon you wouldn't say that to a lawyer it's just a very it's very odd isn't it and I liked obviously it was good to reflect on father the Prime Minister which I can imagine probably gets a bit irritating to have to talk about that, because obviously her passion are novels. Not that she's got a problem, but given she has done a Relative Values, I hadn't realised the Relative Values in the Sunday Times magazine was literally last week. It was all about Bertie and her dad. archive but she's relative values is part of the promotion of the book so i felt less guilty

talking to her about her father and also obviously it being the weekend of the good friday agreement anniversary it was particularly pertinent because her father was in fact the tea shop the irish prime minister doing that negotiation so we just loved seeing her thank you very much indeed to cecilia herm for coming in uh final email from me this one is from somebody who doesn't want their surname read out but i think you're happy to have your first name naomi hope so dear jane and fee just writing to say you're a great distraction and comfort when i've come home from yet another terrible date dating is never easy even in my late 40s when i feel more resilient and confident in myself than ever before but being treated badly and disrespectfully by a man still makes me crumple Naomi it is a familiar

theme on this podcast and we love hearing from people about things that have gone wrong things that have gone well but I'm really sorry because I think that is crushing when you come back because every single date contains in it doesn't it it, all of your hopes and dreams. I don't think it matters how old you are. I think it doesn't matter how much you try and put a lid on it. I think you go into every date thinking, this could be it. So I really sympathise and I hear you.

We'd love to hear from you. It's Jane and Fi at Timestock Radio. It will be the other Jane and me tomorrow. Jane Mulkerran will be stepping into Jane Garvey's shoes. Jane Garvey is back on Monday. Draw a diagram. It'll make absolutely perfect sense. Ed Vasey, thank you very much indeed for your company over the last couple of days.

If you want to find more of Ed, he's on Times Radio. When? Friday at 7pm. Lovely stuff. So it's a good night from me and it's a good night from her. Good night. Well done for getting to the end of another episode of Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover.

Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe. And don't forget, there is even more of us every afternoon on Times Radio. It's Monday to Thursday, three till five. You can pop us on when you're pottering around the house or heading out in the car on the school run. Or running a bank. Thank you for joining us and we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon. Don't be so silly.

Running a bank? I know ladies don't do that. A lady listener. I'm sorry. VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iphone screen voiceover on settings so you can navigate it just by listening books contacts calendar double tap to open breakfast with from 10 to 11 and get on with your day accessibility there's more to iphone