Off Air... with Jane and Fi - I don't mind a tubby gent in a decent slack (with Nigel Slater)

Episode Date: October 16, 2024

Today, Jane and Fi discuss the importance of a good natter, blue light escorts to Muppet Treasure Island and men wearing skinny jeans. And they are joined by Nigel Slater, a cook who writes, on his latest book 'A Thousand Feasts'. Our next book club pick has been announced! 'The Trouble with Goats and Sheep' by Joanna Cannon. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi Assistant Producer: Hannah Quinn Podcast Producer: Eve Salusbury Executive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And a little toddler was approaching the road at a speed that suggested he needed a bit of safety, adult safety supervision. So David Schrimmer ran out and saved this toddler who was a dimple bee. The Times Tech podcast sponsored by ServiceNow. A podcast presented from San Francisco and from London. Each week, a fresh interview with pioneers in tech from the brightest startups to the tech giants. That's the Times Tech podcast, where Danny in the valley, that's Silicon Valley, meets me, Katie, in the city,

the city of London. Exploring how tech is changing life and business in this new world of artificial intelligence. The Times Tech podcast with Katie Prescott and Danny Fortson. Follow us now wherever you get your podcasts. Well, with Norwegian Cruise Line you can travel to iconic locations across Northern Europe, the Mediterranean and the Greek Isles, unpacking only once and exploring multiple European destinations in one holiday. They offer exclusive go-local shore excursions as well as an immersive programme

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Taylor Swift is on the front page again today. Well we were just discussing this in the office because we interviewed Vanessa Feltz yesterday for an interview that will go out next week and if you're listening to this next month, take a break for a while because that made no sense. So we were talking to Vanessa about her memoir that she's written and in it there are some just superlative anecdotes from the world of show business, Jane, and the proper, proper main stage of show business as well. And she details how the Taylor Swift in summation the story is.

Oh, well, to be honest, it's been going on, rumbling on now for several weeks, the suggestion that Taylor Swift, when she was in London in August, was given very special treatment by the authorities and was blue-lighted to her gigs at Wembley Stadium. But all this came after her gigs in Austria had had to be cancelled because of a really unpleasant terrorist threat to these concerts. Which would have, if that had happened, that would have been horrific. And if the story had been Taylor Swift asked for police protection and it wasn't given and the outcome was that there was no more Taylor Swift, that would be something that would reverberate through the centuries.

So the suggestion is that nobody gets the blue light treatment unless you're royal or part of the government or whatever it is. You can't ask for it and get it. Vanessa Phelps details in her book the time that she and her daughters and Jennifer Saunders and her daughters and Bob Geldof and his daughters all flew by helicopter to an out of town airfield the other side of Bristol in order to make the premiere of Muppet Treasure Island and they were sirened with blue lights into the centre of Bristol with a police escort so that they didn't miss the beginning of the film. So I'm just leaving it out there that sometimes other forces may have heeded the call of the celebrity in need and that appears to be just a timing thing and I think I'm right in saying as well that

Richard and Judy were allowed a police escort up the the inside lane of a motorway once weren't they when they were about to be late for their show? Well, that would have been the M62 or the M57 because of course they used to do their show in Liverpool City Centre. They did didn't they? Actually but down by the dock the Albert Dock. It all ended it all ended rather sadly didn't it that but it was a good show that and I used to love the fact that it was in the Albert Dock. I think it was groundbreaking television Jane yeah. No I wouldn't knock daytime TV at all. Oh no. Oh no. Neither of us would say no to daytime TV.

Let's make that clear. One of my kids showed me a fantastic sizzle reel of Alison Hammond's best worst moments that is available on many of the platforms. There is a wonderful one of her on the weather map. What's she doing? She leaps on the weather map. What's she doing? She leaps onto the weather map and in the world of daytime TV it's entirely, entirely normal for there to be two half-dressed naval ratings there to greet her and she lands with such ferocity.

What, on to Great Britain? On to Great Britain that one of them bounces off it. What, the naval rating or a to Great Britain? On to Great Britain! That one of them bounces off it! What, the naval rating? Or a bit of Britain? No, the naval rating. Oh no, it's just absolutely wonderful. I love that woman. I love Alison Hammond. I could watch her read her shopping list. And I'd be entertained by it.

I think she's glorious, don't you? Yeah, I don't know much of her. I haven't seen her much. Oh, you're not watching Bake Off? No, I'm not. Because that's her latest vehicle and she's just superb. She's so lovely with the contestants and genuinely spontaneously funny. And so is Noel, although his trousers make me feel unwell. He's a man wearing skinny jeans.

Oh my god. I know it's not good to comment on people's appearances but I don't, I think skinny jeans, I think they've been sent by aliens on another planet to make us feel uncertain about our future. I would just pose the question, who do they suit? They don't suit anybody. No, I don't, no. I once saw Noel Fielding in our local park wearing a jacket that very much screeched, recognized me. That's all I'll say.

Well his jumpers. And I did. As saying hello, Noel Fielding in the house. But I'd like to just see him in a pleated slack. I just can't look. I just can't look. I'm with you. But anyway, Alison Hammons. Yeah, that's where we started and we can agree on that. But Blue Harbour trousers are, I think, still available in M&S and they suit every chap.

Well, they don't actually. Sometimes they can make them look quite tubby around the middle when they're not. But I don't mind. I don't mind a tubby gent. Nor do I. And we both enjoy a decent slack. Right. Crack with the emails. Save us dear listeners. No, but please, if anyone does genuinely believe they know someone who suits skinny jeans, I would appreciate that.

Or if you're a celebrity and you've been police escorted into a venue, we'll be very, very interested to hear. Yeah, anyone who's had a blue light experience experience not in a medical way. No, we need a police escort to an event. That's what we're looking for. That's what we're after. Jill says, quick request, what is the name of the money expert who comes on to your show on Mondays I think? His advice is excellent but I'm always in the car. I can't jot it down and then I forget his name. I've tried googling, oh right okay, all right Jill, it is Adam Shaw and he's his name. I've tried Googling. Oh, right, okay. All right, Jill.

It is Adam Shaw and he's lovely, Adam. I've known him for many, many decades. You're right. He's as sound as a pound. And the best way of getting hold of him is on X where his name is Adam Shaw Biz. That's Adam Shaw Biz, B-I-Z. That's correct, isn't it? Yeah, because he's down with the kids, KIDZ.

Yes. And he's great, actually, isn't he? He's really good. Well, every single week we always slightly feel we've run out of time to get the most out of him. So we're going to do more of sensible timekeeping on a Monday from now on. Yeah, we must do that because sometimes I feel that there's more informative stuff that would actually change your life contained in the Monday Money Matters section. Yeah. And the sometimes, only sometimes, Jane, trot round the paddock with somebody with a book

out. My favorite droning on man chat watches the guests dry up. And the production team says book your own guests fee. Refuse. I am no, I am not going on. Here comes Rachel. Several years ago I was at one of my closest friends weddings and she sat me and my partner at a table with some of the groom's friends. An hour later and with no prospect of escape as we waited for the next course and then speeches to start I'd learnt all about every job the man sat next to me had ever had, including promotions and ambitions to make it big. Plus his crown achievement, a PhD.

There was definitely a pause after this one to give me just enough time to say, oh wow. But I thought I would bide my time so that when he finally did run out of his own career chat and had nothing left to say other than to ask me what I did, I could really throw a punch. Now I'm not for one minute saying that a PhD in genetics from the University of Cambridge is better than the one from the University of Southampton. But by his reaction, I don't think he'd met a woman before with a PhD. Needless to say, after this, he turned round to his other side and started the same chat with another poor woman. All the best.

Rachel, I love you. And also just how amazing. You've got a PhD in genetics from the University of Cambridge. Go sister, go. Congratulations. Fantastic achievement. Look, I'm not one to pit one university against another. You so are. But can we just own the fact that if you've got one from Cambridge. It is better. Yes, it is. No, it is. This is much more serious, but it's on a similar subject. It's headlined, Men Who Don't Listen, The Revenge of the Invisible Woman, and we'll keep this one anonymous.

Some years ago, having fled from my abusive husband, I went back to England. I had been living in Glasgow. I took a temporary job in an accounts office, only to find that my new boss was another Glaswegian. We'll call him Don. He was the same age and of similar appearance and disposition as the man I'd escaped from, a misogynist who made sexist and racist remarks and completely disregarded me and my two female colleagues. I could just have looked for another job but I liked the place and the people so I decided to fight back. For all his faults

my husband was an extremely funny man, with an excellent line in witty put-downs and some legendary insults, all of which I'd memorised over the years. Knowing that Don considered me to be both invisible and mute, whenever he made an unpleasant remark I'd fire off for suitable retort in true Billy Connolly style, using Scottish words, phrases and insults, while still looking at my computer screen, a picture of innocence. Don would sometimes look a little bit bewildered, but never questioned what I'd said. After all, he wasn't actually listening, was he? They were small victories, but they made me

feel better. He left after a couple of months and we had a new finance manager, a wonderful young woman who turned out to be the best boss I ever had. I was made permanent and my colleagues and my new boss became firm friends and helped me to rebuild my life. I worked there for many years until I retired earlier this year at the age of 70. Happy days." So you obviously did enjoy that job and I'm so glad that things turned around and I do admire your approach to the previous boss. Those small

victories can be incredibly satisfying. Yes and also what a lovely life lesson actually to, if you can, only if you can, stick it out, find a way of getting through the day and a brighter time might come and then everybody can relax a bit more and also enjoy their job and probably do better work because a mean boss doesn't get the best out of people. I mean that's so true isn't it? So why are some people not aware of the simple fact that if you create a pleasant and genuinely friendly atmosphere, which doesn't mean you're all popping into each other's houses 24 hours a day to borrow cups of sugar, but just means that you actively look forward to being with your workmates.

Doesn't more get done? It's just surely it's bound to. Yes, it must be. I just simply refuse to believe that if you are horrible to people, that's more, it makes them more productive. No, no, that can't be borne out. And actually, Times Radio here, well... We laugh all day. No, but they had a very deliberate recruitment policy, didn't they? That they wanted people who obviously could do the job, but also they didn't want shits. So, you know, it's good

to hear that said out loud. We're implying people on the basis of their ability to get on with lots of people. And there's so much really decent scrutiny now of people at the top of the chain, particularly in our business. You hope that that just gets valued more and more really. Have you ever laughed at Mrs Brown's Boys? No, I've never really watched enough of it to get into it. When it was very popular, and it was I think maybe a decade ago, really popular, I've never really watched enough of it to get into it. When it was very popular, and it was, I think, maybe a decade ago, really popular, I tried. God, I was utterly mystified. Absolutely, I just, and I'm in no way am I some sort of sophisticated.

I will laugh at, I mean, I love Dad's Army, for example, if he's not keen. But this, I thought it was utterly moronic. And now, with the stuff that's just come out this week about it, really vile and just the sort of so-called joke that I didn't think anybody ever made anymore. They used to, and it was horrible then and inexcusable then, but we all know it went on. I just do not know why they are continuing with that. I mean perhaps they won't, I don't know.

Yeah, there are some odd things going on at the BBC at the moment. Yeah, well, yeah, there are. Maybe it's just stuff that needed to come out that is slowly seeping from the doors of our former employer. Anyway... Seeping. Seeping. It's a terrible word. Yes, it's not very nice, is it? Shall we talk about quilts?

Oh, yes. Let's talk about quilts. Let's wrap ourselves in a quilt of comfort. So this one comes in from Laura, who is writing this email with an 11-month-old clambering around, so do excuse any dud grammar. Laura, you're doing very well. There is no dud grammar in this and you've got capital letters. To be honest, I didn't get back to uppercase until both my kids were in secondary school, so well done you. Responding promptly after listening to your call-out fee for quilting traditions in the UK and thank you to everybody who's got in touch about this.

And Laura says, my parents church community based, based near Petersfield in Hampshire, is a community of avid quilters originating from a few key American founding members who are now in their 80s. And they started a ritual about 60 years ago of making wedding quilts whenever somebody in the community got married. Everybody makes a square and it's sewn together and quilted. And over the years, it's become a more slick operation whereby the couple choose their colors and fabrics to suit their home and their palette. To date it's my most prized

possession and it's an amazing depiction of intergenerational friendships. I've been around a quilt with women aged 60 to 80 and the conversation that's unfolded has always been riveting, fun, thoughtful and positive and you do attach a snap of the quilt with vintage florals and lace bound in a calico border. Everybody signs their square in hand embroidery so you know whose square is whose, although some of the old-timers have a signature square design that they do on everybody's quilt. I think that is such a fantastic spin-off from creating really beautiful craft things and I hadn't really thought

about that before Jane that actually if you all get together there may well be four generations all focused on doing the same thing and of course from that you're going to get loads of really interesting conversation and laughs will abound and of course that doesn't really happen if you go and join a sports club or you do an exercise class and I think it probably doesn't happen enough even if you do something like join the Ramblers Association. So that piqued my interest even more. Well there's a kind of, well there's a permanence about it isn't there? Association. So that, that's piqued my interest even more.

Well, there's a kind of, well, there's a permanence about it, isn't there? Yeah, and you're gifting something to somebody for generations. So how absolutely lovely. Thank you as well to Miriam, who has identified a couple of places in East London. I'm going to look at both of those. But she no longer goes to the daytime group in Wanstead because the rush hour traffic finally got the better of her. It was taking her longer to travel there and back than the time that she was at the group because she lives in Raynham. And also I'm not going to read your PS out Miriam because I know that it will embarrass somebody close to you but we're not frightening. You can approach us at any time. Well, almost at any time within the building.

And it would be our pleasure to say hello. Yeah, it would. Would it? Oh yes, it would. Yeah. No, it would. Sorry, you probably get bothered more than me. Do you get bothered? Do I get bothered? Yes. Hot and bothered.

No, do you get bothered as a celebrity when you're walking in your local park wearing your Hey Look At Me jacket? Because I don't have a Hey Look At Me jacket unlike some people. No, no, I don't. Also in, you know, well in every part of London, yours and mine, there are so many quite well known faces. Oh yeah, that's fantastic. But I'm not in any way, I mean I'm not even in the top 400 in my own street.

There's a legendary incident in the coffee shop that we can almost see from the place where I live in London that David Schwimmer was once in said coffee shop and a little toddler was approaching the road at a speed that suggested he needed a bit of safety, adult safety supervision. So David Schrimmer ran out and saved this toddler who was a dimple bee. Everybody comes out of that well. Yeah they do, that's lovely. What was the name, was it called Stella Street? Where everybody on the street was famous? And the thing is, basically, you could quite literally walk stark naked onto public transport in London.

I'm telling you now, no one would really bat an eyelid, would they? No. And I've been doing it for years. Obviously, no one's paid any attention. But I mean, you just see everything, every sort of person dressed in every kind of way and it's one of many reasons why I love the place I have to say. I just, on the whole, people are not unfriendly but nor are they too nosy. Yeah and I agree with you actually. There's something very comforting about seeing an

absolute welterweight celebrity taking the tube. I just always say it just binds worlds together and there was a really, really, and I was very surprised at this, we're quite close to Westminster, we're on a tube line that runs to Westminster. And I did see one of the one of the contenders in the conservative leadership race just on the tube the other day. And I thought, a fantastic because you must really want a normal life as well as that. Well, who was it? I'm not going to say.

But it was heartening to see them there. Was it her or was it him? Stop it. If you're an in-depth investigative journalist. Oh gosh, I mean that's me. I tell you what, I'm such an in-depth... I just dropped my email. Professional all the way through. The rest of the world will be a gog to find out who the new leader of Britain's opposition is.

It will be revealed November the 2nd. And it's not a busy week. No, no, it's not. There's no other election happening that week. So all eyes will be trained on that committee room in Westminster before you find out who it is. I mean, we're trying to keep the interest going, it's not it's not been the easiest task has it, getting people to be thrilled by the prospect of... anyway shouldn't go there. Right okay I was at this vintage fair weekend. Looking at men. No I know that's not the same as noticing men isn't the same as looking at them. Having that I have seen have you seen the trailer for gladiator 2? No!

What's in it? Paul Mezcal. How many times have you watched it? Right let's move on to this email from Barnes who says at car meets and all things car collective. You should know there are hundreds of these car meets going on across the country. They usually do take place on a Sunday lunchtime at a pub where mostly men, they're not exclusively, gather to talk about engines, crankshafts and pistons. I really like them. I don't go myself but they are fantastic for giving me a free few hours to enjoy my Sunday. So there you go, Barnes enjoys their business while somebody else in the house is going to a car meet. Car shows they're different.

They take place over the summer months and they're much larger, with a wide range of vehicles in addition to stalls selling all kinds of car and non-car paraphernalia. The owners of the vehicles are passionate about them and will often have printed out the history of the vehicle, what work has been carried out, mileage etc. I've had some really interesting experiences listening, or at least appearing to listen, to people over the years, men largely, at these events. Goodness can they go on! The most recent one was at Hampton Court for the Concours d'Elegance, whereby our neighbour

sat by his car for eight hours with duster and magic spray in hand, ready to remove any speck of dust or falling leaf that might detract from its overall beauty. He was most thrilled to tell me that his wife was driving all the way from Northampton to deliver his lunch. I mean that's quite a schlep that would take you at least two hours I would think to get from Northampton to Hampton Court. Well she duly arrived, deposited the cling-filmed wrapped sandwiches, did a very quick tour of Hampton Court and beat a hasty retreat. I have no doubt she loves her husband disappearing for the day. This is the thing I've always been mildly amused by this the notion that men have their

hobbies and let's say it is a heteronormative relationship their partners are meant to be very angry about their hobbies they're not angry they couldn't get them get out yeah go away yeah that's why do your thing it's why test cricket is popular isn't it?? Well, I suppose it is, yeah. In many families. Yeah. Old days. Weeks at a time. It can be five days.

But also it's very healthy to have, you know, different hobbies. Just space. Yes, yeah. All that space. No, space and also just the opportunity to talk about different things with different people. I don't think you want to observe exactly the same thing all the time, do you? No. I mean, your bowling action over the years has been of extreme interest to lots of people.

Very much so. I'm glad you've noticed. Actually, I've got quite a good spinning wrist. Is that a term? I don't know, Jane. I don't know. I'm still slightly caught on the notion that you think you could get from Northampton to Hampton Court in under two hours. I think if you took the toll road you'd be taking a considerable amount of time in either which way. What toll road would you take? Well, if you went over the Dartford Crossing, which is a toll crossing. Well, you wouldn't go on the Dartford Crossing. If you were coming down from Northampton and then you'd hit...

Down the M40? Yeah, no, Northampton, North, the go on the Dartford Crossing. If you were coming down from Northampton and then you'd hit... Down the M40? Yeah, no Northampton, North, emphasis on the North. Northampton's off the M40. So then you'd go M25, yeah no that's what I'm trying to work out, whether when you get to the M25 you'd go westbound or eastbound. Because you could go eastbound and then you go over the Dartford Crossing and then you come all the way round and back up. Or I don't know, somebody would be able to tell us. I don't know why we didn't get Top Gear because we went for that. No I know I'm surprised as well. Oh no don't get me started again. So many disappointments. No and all the men taking trips. Oh god yes sorry. Yeah no so it's become a real festering

sore actually and because sometimes when we've mentioned it on air then there'll be some people who say Joanna Lumley and I know that Joanna Lumley does travelogues and stuff and I think they're hugely watchable I really enjoyed her Egypt stuff when she was going down the Nile but it's just true isn't it that there are more blokes paired up together discussing bloke stuff and that's really good because men don't talk to men enough and it's helpful when they do. But I don't want to watch it. I'm doing the privacy of your own life. Anonymous says, on the subject of good conversationalists,

I asked my son how chat was going with his new girlfriend. He just said, she talks a lot. Our correspondent says, I think us women need to be aware of our greater capacity to natta. Yeah, I think that you're absolutely right. Yeah, but yes, but natta is a pejorative, isn't it? Is that the right word? It kind of sounds like a judgment. Yes. And I think sometimes natta is a virtuous place to be.

Natta is not just Nata. No, I agree with that. It's often very important. I agree with that. But I also agree with the sentiment that sometimes we have to acknowledge that not everything that we say, and everybody knows a woman who can monologue too. Everybody knows a woman who can monologue too. So we just have to accept that sometimes we might be guilty of going on a bit as well. Do you think Thomas Tuchel is the right appointment?

Oh gosh, we're covering that today. I'm going to have to leave that one to you, Jane. I don't know, is he? I don't think he is, no. We're just talking briefly about the appointment of England men's football manager. He's getting five million quid a year, apparently. He's German. I mean, of course that shouldn't matter, but I think to some people it might, absurdly probably. Well, not even probably. There's something about him, I'm not sure he is the right person. I like Gareth Southgate, I thought he had the, there was something about the

cut of his jib that I thought was excellent. Yeah, I agree. Whereas I'm not invested in this chappy, but hey, he could be the man phi to bring it home. Or not. Now our world can sometimes feel as if it's full of angry men, men with huge opinions, men who want to invade countries, men who have invaded countries, men who want to win and even if they don't win they're going to say that they did anyway. So it's more important than ever to celebrate the type of man who finds solace in rearranging jars

in the larder, it's not a euphemism, the kind of man who can find joy in a crust or the scent of a lemon or the slow motion gloop of treacle falling off a spoon. Now this regiment of thoughtful men has a leader and he is Nigel Slater, food writer and cook. He's got a new book out called A Thousand Feasts. It's a collection of the kind of jottings that have nourished him and his many readers for the last eight or nine years. I'm going to say Nigel, it may be more than that. Welcome to the studio. How are you?

All good, thank you. Good, good. Very well. It's such a beautiful book. It's small moments of joy, a memoir of sorts. And it really is your Jottings, isn't it? How do you jot? What do you jot in?

Notebooks. So I've got lots of them. And I'd forgotten most of them. There's a current one. Current two actually. But then there's also a little box in my attic which is full of old books. And clearing out the attic I found them. And you know when you get sidetracked when you are starting a job but you might find a photograph album or an old newspaper and you get sidetracked and it was like that I was going through my notebooks reading these small notes sometimes short essays occasionally just one-liners about something good that had happened to me that I'd recorded. What I really loved was your description of what the notebooks actually are, because you

say it first before the reader thinks it, that they're not this line of incredibly uniform beautiful leather bound books. They're big, they're small, some of them are old, some of them are floppy, some of them you kept well, some of them are pages torn out. They're quite normal, aren't they Nigel? They're very normal. A lot of them are bought wherever I happen to be and need a notebook. So one of my favourites is one that I bought in Delhi, which is an old pink one with a green binding to it. And I'm just very fond of it because it actually smells of India, even now. And I do have quite a collection. And they're written in some in pencil,

some in ink, fountain pen, anything I can get my hands on. I just need to write down these little moments. How often do you use a fountain pen? Pretty much every day. Do you? Well, my diary that I write every morning is written in fountain pen. And also my food diary where I write every morning is written in fountain pen. And also my food diary where I write down everything I eat, that is fountain pen too.

Are you finding it easy to get the bits and pieces for the fountain pen? The ink cartridges and things, isn't that quite niche now? It is a little bit niche, particularly if you've got a short fountain pen that needs a certain type of cartridge. Yes. But I think it will always be people who just love writing with a fountain pen. It's a beautiful thing. Can I ask, why do you dig a diary in the morning? I'm quite clear-headed in the morning. When I wake up up I can't wait

to get out of bed and it's actually my busiest time and I think I do my best writing firstly in the morning. As the day goes on lots of other things creep in that interfere with my day and jobs that have to be done to do lists and things. So the mornings are clear. My head is clear and I feel that I can, yes, I can remember what I did yesterday, what I ate yesterday and write it down. Gosh, would you be able to do that? I'm wondering whether that's where I've gone wrong. Maybe, no, seriously, I'm interested in that because I did do a diary for a couple of years actually, and I quite enjoyed it,

but it felt like a chore last thing at night. I look back on it and I just think, no, that didn't work because I wasn't in the right mood, to be honest. So I'll try the new way of doing it. Yeah, no, that is intriguing, because I would have thought once you slept on something, you have a slightly different perspective of it,

but maybe it's better. Yes, actually, particularly things that you've been perhaps upset about, things that aren't right, you've been a bit cross maybe about something, the next morning, yes, things have changed, you've got a better perspective on, a different perspective on it. You have done so much traveling, it's one of the things that makes the book an absolute delight. We find you enjoying a lamb feast in the Beqa Valley in Lebanon. I mean a place that is obviously in the news very much at the moment. When were you there and why were you there? I was there because James Thompson who used to work with me, he cooked in my kitchen with me, he's also my TV producer. He went off to set up a set of communal ovens

where local women would cook for people who needed food, people who'd lost their homes and their families and they just needed something to eat. And he went and did that. So I went and joined him for a while and cooked out there with the women who are using these great big communal ovens and his charity the great oven is something that I support I wanted to go and The Becker Valley, yes where I was cooking there in Becker Valley that that is actually no longer there where we were cooking

The local women set up a kitchen the local artists it, and they were feeding hundreds of people a day, and that is no longer there. They have moved on, they've moved to another place. You're also to be found in Tehran quite a few times in the book. In one particular excerpt from your life, you're queuing for sheep's heads. No, I hoped I was queuing for breakfast. I thought I was going to get some lovely warm

flatbread from the oven and I was going to get something delicious to put on it like mulberry jam or something like that. And then I peered through the open door and there were these sheep's heads sort of with their teeth holding on onto these bowls of bubbling broth. So, yes. And I got the biggest treats, which was the tongue and the other bits from inside the sheep. So the sheep's heads that actually use their open mouths as a kind of... Yes, gripping the stockpots. Like a clothes peg.

Like a clothes peg, exactly. Do you think there's any bit of an animal that you haven't eaten? Oh, I'm sure there is. I mean, I couldn't do that celebrity thing where they go and eat ghastly bits and pieces in the jungle. I could not do that. I've never been the sort of eater who wants to tick boxes as to how weird or unusual something was. It doesn't interest me at all. What interests me is whether it's delicious or not. Not whether it's something that no one else would eat unless they were

being paid a fortune to eat. I find what's just really macabre about exactly that thing, and I'm a celebrity, get me out of here, is there's a kind of really ghastly sexualisation going on there, isn't there? Where everything that the people are made to eat is from the nether regions of an animal, so we're meant to be doubly disgusted that it's a camel's penis or whatever it is. It's so bizarre, Nigel, isn't it? It's bizarre and it's not something I want to watch and I certainly wouldn't want to

do it. No. So let's just park it there. You've been to some very interesting places. Are you a spy? We were mooting this point on Hugo Rifkin's programme this morning that actually would be a terribly good cover, wouldn't it? If you were a food writer, you could just bomb around the world with your little notebooks jotting down things. I don't know. I've no idea.

Would you be a good spy? Have I been? Well, I think you've been rumbled. I've been rumbled. This is great. What can you tell us? All the places in the world I expected to be rumbled. It was not here. Well, thanks very much Nigel. Nigel, never, do you know what Nigel, never ever underestimate the power of two middle-aged women.

Oh, believe me, I know that. Don't know that. We find you also talking about Green Shoots in Finland, which is a really lovely little piece and I should actually say that all of these are just highly readable, kind of, they're 300, 400, 500 words at a time, aren't they? So you can just dip in to these lovely little slices of your life. Very much a dipping in book. I didn't write it to be written in it's obviously read in one go

I think there's a moment in your day when you just want to make a cup of tea and sit down and Just read something that maybe just lifts you a little bit something that's quite happy Makes you feel good. And that is what this is. There are short pieces Just about the length of time it takes you to have a cuppa. Yeah, I think it's delightful for exactly that reason. The Ligonberries, am I saying it right? Ligonberries, yes. In Finland, they're the very kind of tiny dark berries,

are they somewhere between a raspberry and a currant? What exactly is a Ligonberry? A Ligonberry. They're very tiny and red and they're quite tart. All of the berries I love, they are the very sharp ones. So I'm less fond of strawberries than I am of even raspberries or loganberries because I like that sharpness that comes with them. But the Scandinavians, they have cloudberries as well, which are, they look a little bit like raspberries, but they're sort of bright orange in colour. And they too have this incredible sourness, so they're really refreshing.

And are they used a lot in their cuisine because they must be very powerfully packed with vitamin C, and for the long, long winters when you're not actually getting an awful lot of sunlight and all of the things that make us healthy, is that why they're inherent in their cuisine? I'm sure it is, it certainly works, it certainly works and very often you have them at breakfast which is just when you need something quite sharp and full of vitamin C. I read this really interesting piece yesterday about how our climate is changing and we're probably heading towards that very very cold kind kind of Nordic climate quite quickly. And I wonder whether our palate and our diet

is capable of changing with that. Because if we do get much, much colder, possibly being indoors much more of the time, we've got to think about what we're eating, haven't we? And what we eat at the moment is pretty terrible full stop as a nation. I think our favourite dish is still a curry and a pizza, isn't it? So we're not adapting very well, would you say? We may have to, we may simply have to, but we could go back to the very carb-rich foods that we ate in, instance Victorian times, we may end up eating a lot of sticky puddings and sort of staking kidney and things I don't

know. I'm more worried about the wet. I think there's been so much rain this year. My garden is virtually under water. I'm wondering if we're going to end up with a climate that is so extreme that yes, it's cold and Scandinavian, but also incredibly heavy rainfall. That's what does bother me. And that does terrible things to crops, doesn't it? I mean, farmers have had a rotten couple of years. I wake up every morning to farming today and it's good because it reminds you that The first thing about food is not seeing it on the grocer's shelf or on the supermarket shelf it goes way back and you Hear all of the problems about getting that food into the shops about the farmers

About the climate and about the the weather but also about the pickers people are actually harvesting, the fact that there are very few of them. Brexit has put pay to that. It makes a very almost slightly depressing start to the day sometimes when you listen to the incredibly tough time farmers are having and it may get worse. Well look let's try and cheer ourselves up. I was delighted to read, obviously, that you are a fan of pickles. We spend a little bit of time talking about pickles, for some reason, in our team. It's a thing that I think is quite... Well, we're very good at old-fashioned pickles in this country, but we've embraced the Japanese pickle, haven't we? We've embraced the fermented food. It's a kind of foodie thing at the moment.

Can you tell us a little bit about the Japanese pickles that you mention in your book, which I just never heard of, Nigel? No, and I've only just learned how to pronounce them. In fact, I'll probably get it wrong. A lot of their pickles are pickled for a long time. So they'll go for several months before you eat them. And they're things like mooli and long crunchy radishes, very thinly sliced.

And sometimes they'll be pickled with a little bit of soy as well, or a bit of ginger. And lots of cabbage, lots of various pickled cabbages. The colors are wonderful. But very often there's quite a lot of salt. They're much saltier than ours, which of course I love because I love salty things. But they're used mostly, where we would probably eat a pickle say on the side with cold meat or something like that to liven that up, they would very often use them in rice. So you'd make yourself a bowl of rice or even for breakfast and then you'd sprinkle your pickles on there

and then just stir them through the rice. It's a very good way to start the day. Interesting. Does that take your fancy? No, I'm afraid I'm finding Greek yoghurt unbeatable at the moment. I can't see myself shifting from that. I have yoghurt in the morning too. Do you? Yeah, absolutely. It keeps me going until getting on for half past ten some mornings.

I honestly do find it so filling. There's a luxuriant quality to Greek yoghurt, honestly. I've come quite late to it but boy am I enjoying it. The mouthfeel, it's very silky and velvety. But also you do feel you've actually eaten something. Yes, you do. It is quite filling. Yeah. Well, it certainly works for me. Let's end on digging into the undercrust. I really, really enjoyed reading this.

Many years ago, around the early 1980s, I penned a story about fruit crumble in a rather delightful, now-defunct magazine called Food Illustrated. Rest in peace, Food Illustrated. I didn't realise it had died. The point of the piece was not so much the crust or the luscious fruit that lays sleeping beneath. The point was to identify what I consider to be the best bit,

neither crust nor crumble, but the layer of fruit-soaked dough that lies just beneath the crust. It is gorgeous, isn't it? And I had never, ever thought about it in its individual sense before. I would be happy to have just that. Just a bowl of the squidgy bit in the middle that is fruity but also doughy. And it's the same with something like a pie.

You get the inside of the pastry that's soaked with the gravy. It really is the best bit. It's the best of both worlds. It is, isn't it? It's the liminal space in between the crumbly bit and the other bit. It's a soggy bottom sometimes, isn't it, Nigel? It's a soggy middle, yes, absolutely.

But soggy's the word because it does mean saturated with juices or gravy or flavor. Yeah. Now, Jane asked you off air before you came into the studio what you were going to be having for your tea, but you said you weren't in a very kind of foodie place today. I'm in one of those places where I will go home, open the fridge and hope. There'll be something there. There'll be something there. Yeah, because you and I just later, there will be something there. With a bit of luck it'll be a cold sausage and some mayonnaise, but I don't know.

Well yeah, in my house it will be a dead burger and regret. Nigel, it's lovely to see you. It's a really, really wonderful book. I think it does exactly what you set out to do. It provides these lovely, lovely moments of calm to just dip into and lower your blood pressure. It's called A Thousand Feasts Small Moments of Joy, a Memoir of sorts. Nigel Slater, he's definitely not a spy. So his book is highly entertaining. If you want just a little something to just gently dip into and I think there's a huge place for men like Nigel Slater in the world and I know I don't think you're as big a fan of his writing as I might be.

I'm a big fan of him I think in a world where Greg Wallace continues to exist we need more Nigel Slater. Yes and I think that you know I would never want to kind of dismiss the whimsical writings of a Nigel Slater because I think that that kind of aspect of masculinity should be amplified because we can't complain about all of the alpha males beating their chests and then, you know, not amplify the work of people who are doing something a little bit more gentle in the pantry. So I applaud him. Gentle in the pantry, lovely.

Oh, I thought you were going to sneer at it. No, I don't have a pantry. I do have a store cupboard. Well you could convert once both of your girls leave. Well, when's that going to be? I don't know, so somewhere around 20, 2080, you would have room to have a whole walk-in room as a pantry, imagine that. I'll only be sort of my 116th year, something like that, so yes, I mean, anything would be possible. You'll be fine. And also you could clear out the cellar, because you don't need all of those life-size replicas of Peter Allen and Julianne Warwick anymore.

I've still got the loo roll down there for you. And some bottled water. OK, see you on the other side of Armageddon. Goodbye. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, two till four, on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale, and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case.

So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler. Music