Off Air... with Jane and Fi - I just said quite loaded things like 'I gave birth to you' (with Caroline Quentin)

Episode Date: February 13, 2024

Jane² is back with a bang, talking all things dead fox, Taylor Fever, and very large births. Caroline Quentin is our big guest today; actor, and now author of 'Drawn to the Garden'. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi Assistant Producer: Megan McElroy Times Radio Producer: Kate Lee Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Hello, welcome Jane.

Thanks Jane. It's a pleasure. Lovely to see you. Yes. Two days in a row. I know, it must be. And you've only got another two more to do after this, um we're crossing them off i feel like yesterday we manifested the um spirits of anti-social behavior when we were talking about people behaving badly post-covid because not an hour later i got my train back to brighton and a youth sat opposite me vaping

and shouting into his phone and not for the first time i asked him to stop vaping did you okay but for the first time he pushed back very hard. Oh, I'm sorry. So was there an incident? So there wasn't an incident because me and the other middle-aged people just sort of laughed at him. But he did carry on vaping and shouting to his phone all the way to Brighton. Oh, God. Yeah.

I would find that absolutely... It was exhausting. Yeah. And also he was having quite an intimate chat with his girlfriend loudly on the phone, which was, as you were saying, quite amusing. Well, as long as it was entertaining. It was entertaining.

But the pushback on the vaping was pretty extraordinary. And without being too pompous, you're not allowed to vape on a train. No. No, you're not. No. And he seemed to think that we were being unreasonable in our middle-aged request that he stop.

And he said, why should I stop? And we said, because you're not allowed to do it on a train. And then he seemed surprised that I said he shouldn't shout on his phone in a public place either. Gosh, you really went for it, didn't you? I did. Okay, well, can I just say well done? Thanks.

It got me absolutely no nowhere no but welcome to harpies anonymous yeah thanks very much because we achieve nothing but we enjoy failing i became 78 more like my mum yeah well there's a there's a lot to be said for that i'm sure uh thank you to everyone who's emailed um jane's got some fan mail and i'm sure do you want to bring it to everybody yeah let's dig in Jane's got an admirer I love the way he refers to you as fees locum yeah I like that um well he also does he opens with talking about Billy Connolly doing a sketch lamenting the dour dirge of our National Anthem and suggesting that a better tune would be barwick green um apparently you will know this yes the single tune of the Archers,

which I didn't know that's what it's called. And also our lovely listener says, so too is the wonderful Italian anthem when sung before the Six Nations. Anyway, back to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Andrew does say, one final ramble in praise of Fee's locum, the other Jane. Her robust sense of humour and delivery harks back to the days

when journalists did inhabit Fleet Street in a haze of cigarette smoke and liquid sandwiches at Elvino's. However, I do appreciate that she is far too young to have been around then. Um, Andrew, thank you for that. I did sort of catch the fag end of it. Did you? Yeah, the fag end, literally. When I joined the Sunday Times at the 20-nothing years old years old um i have to say i'm quite glad that i didn't live through those glory days because i'd be in the priory by about the age of 25 i think well um elvino's i mean i've never been it but it was a wine bar on fleets yeah yeah yeah and people used to just file from elvinos what do you mean so people wouldn't people would

go to the pub and just file their copy from the pub. So they'd just ring up? Yeah. Because in those days... Yeah, you'd ring the copy takers. So I did used to ring copy takers quite a lot from the road. And a copy taker is someone who'd sit in front of a typewriter? And just take down... Just take down what you were dictating to them.

Were they not able to correct what you'd... No, no. You would have to make your own errors. Yeah, because this is i used to have subs though back in those days yeah who would then say some editors would then read obviously they've fallen by the wayside in most places just just explain because i'm not everybody understands this i'm not really sure i do sub editors rewrite or correct correct yeah generally correct some i mean in news they might do a bit of rewriting and they would check the facts correct

the spelling the the grammar. But that obviously was much more important back in the day. When you'd be out on a job, you wouldn't have a mobile phone or a laptop to file with. So maybe you'd be in court and you'd have to ring your story through, dictate it to copy takers who would type it out and then send it off somehow by magic to the presses. So yeah, it was something I used to have to do gosh when I started Sunday Times and I'd do jobs abroad or around the country I

didn't have a laptop and Wi-Fi so you would ring copy takers with your copy who would then type it up and send it off to the news editor. So that's like another world. It was another world yeah. And do you think the nature of writing has changed since we all were only not not on manual typewriters, but were able to change as we went along? I think definitely so, absolutely. It must have changed the way we think as well. Yeah, because you can correct all the way along.

So I think, yeah, you probably did a lot more thinking beforehand. Before you wrote it. Before you wrote it. Certainly I used to write out my notes, sort of a mixture of my terrible shorthand and longhand, and I would write the story sort of as I would want to dictate it. But I think other people used to do it off the top of their heads, people who are better news reporters than me. Yeah, absolutely.

And I think now that you can self-edit, I think we're probably, I don't know, we probably fiddle around a bit more. It certainly slows people down, I think now that you can self-edit, I think we're probably, I don't know, we'll probably fiddle around a bit more. It certainly slows people down, I think. You just have to bash it out from the pub. Yeah, I imagine that there have been PhDs written about this, about the nature of writing changing. If anybody knows about it, I'd be interested. I would love to know.

The great thing about this podcast is there are always people listening who know so much stuff. So let us know. By the way, almost everyone in the world was at Kew Gardens on Sunday. And I've even had images of the actual fox that I saw at Kew. I'm convinced it is this one. This is from Chris. I really enjoyed your podcast today.

That's another compliment to you, Jane, isn't it? And couldn't believe it when you mentioned the fox in Kew. compliment to you Jane isn't it uh and couldn't believe it when you mentioned the fox in queue I was there two Sundays ago and also met a lovely fox albeit this one seemed to be without their lovely trademark bushy tail oh yeah this fox doesn't really have a tail I wondered if the park keepers that is maybe took the fox in having rescued it in any case it was a very friendly fox welcomed my curious photography and posed multiple times in between spraying every bush. Here's a snap, says Chris. They're allowed to spray the bushes.

I suppose they probably are. It does look as though that fox has been damaged and has been taken in by the good people at Kew Gardens. But thank you for that. Elaine was also there. Oh, no, she she goes often she said. Her daughter's a member she regularly visits the gardens at least once a month sometimes more. I've seen foxes on numerous occasions usually near the pagoda which is they're not particularly shy but they do slink away if people approach them and they do look very healthy

with nice shiny coats as we were saying. Yeah. london yeah expensive foxes well we just take care of ourselves in west london i would also just on the fox note if it's okay i'd just like to respond to oh yes a question about why i couldn't bag up my dead fox myself so i mentioned on yesterday's podcast that a fox died in my garden um about two years ago and my colleague on the times who sits next to me and heard me wanging on about it for a whole morning tony turnbull came round to my house on his bike after work and bagged it up for me in my defense so what does our correspondent say our correspondent says why couldn't jane m sort out the dead fox herself i dig it up put it in a bag ready for binning instead of relying on male

colleagues to do the deed can i just say i would have happily relied on anyone willing to help me with that. I wouldn't have done it myself. So I'd been home for a week with incredibly bad COVID. You don't have to apologize. No, this was the weekend that I thought, oh, the reason I saw the dead fox, I looked out my window and thought, oh, I might just sit in the garden. Oh, there's a huge dead fox in my garden. I was quite pathetic with COVID. covid and also it was huge and i wasn't feeling very well so it was my first day back at work and tony very kindly offered and when he came around he

said it is massive yeah also it was stiff and maggoty thank you for that um and i couldn't smell it because i had covered but tony t, yeah. We put it in nine bin bags. So that's how maggoty and disgusting the dead fox was. So, you know, I'm very independent, very liberated, modern woman. But to be honest, it could have been a woman who offered to help me bag up the dead fox. Anyone helping me. It wouldn't have been this woman. I'm telling you that now.

Well, I've no woman offered. Tony has more than grown in my estimation. And who is that criticism from? Do you want me to name them? Well, what's their first name? There is a first name.

Caroline. Caroline. Oh, I think you're being a bit hard on Jane there, Caroline. Or more than a bit hard because trust me, I would have called in help

from La Turnbull or anybody else willing to help me out. You mentioned antisocial. Oh, I should say, great guest, talking of Kew Gardens, the guest on today's podcast is Caroline Quentin,

and she's so interesting and lovely, and she has written a book called Drawn to the Garden, but she talks about all sorts of other stuff in the conversation that I did on the Times Radio show this afternoon, and you can hear it on this podcast today. She did seem to be a thoroughly good sort. So there's plenty about gardening in that conversation. But this is about antisocial behaviour. And this is from a listener, Leslie.

I wonder what your take is on how to deal with young men who sit on public transport or walk along the street with their hands down their trousers. I did enjoy this question. I see this now and again in London. My first reaction is always anxiety. I'm in my 60s and it might not be a threat to me, but my immediate feeling is to take me back to being frightened and threatened

whenever I see a man groping their genitals in public. You see, I think I'm with Lesley here, and I think she's quite right to be more than affronted by this, to be honest. Whenever I say anything to my husband, he says that it's no different from seeing women adjusting their bra straps. Completely different. Totally different. That is distasteful and uncomfortable to witness when they're talking to you in a work meeting, but essentially harmless. But I don't feel these things are the same at all.

Both might be disrespectful and a bit grubby, but I don't feel that a woman fiddling with her underwear would threaten and intimidate a man in the same way as a man openly touching his genitals is for a woman to see. Leslie, thank you. She says she appreciates the way this podcast mingles the utterly trivial with the very serious. It's sort of what we try to do,

although it's not written down anywhere. But you're right, Leslie, that's what we're trying to do. Why do men do that in public? I don't know, because I'm not a man, but I really feel for Leslie. And I'm also a bit angry with the men who choose not to see why this is threatening. Yeah.

If you really really really don't understand that then you need to just have a think yeah i have to say when i do see it i don't personally find it particularly threatening i think it's a bit pathetic yeah i find it pathetic and i just think have you got absolutely no self-control is what i think yeah i just think or no social awareness. It's back to social awareness, I think. It's back to understanding that you're in the world, but so are other people.

Yeah. And you don't actually own it. No. But we've thrown that one open there. If anybody's got a way of dealing, and of course you're unlike, let's face it, I mean, I've been in exactly that situation. You don't say anything.

The way I'm going, I might, actually. Okay, you might way I'm going I might actually okay you start calling them out stop it go free and out your pants I'll just stand behind you there was there was a fair rather I'm out of other people doing that on the train last night looking and tutting and then I jumped in the thing is they just back me up cowardly custards aren't they they want to agree with they want to be you but but they lack the pahones. Yeah. I never know how to say that.

Just frustration. Yeah. This is also an interesting point. Again, sort of on the behavioural rules. Dear Jane and Jane, I was surprised to hear you mention Travis Kelsey on yesterday's podcast. I take it neither of you watched the Super Bowl.

Nope. What was the time difference and the good sense you had to spend your Sundays otherwise, dig a land and queue garden and see much more wholesome choices. But I'm curious if either of you saw the clip of Kelsey's shocking behaviour towards his 65-year-old coach, Andy Reid. I didn't see the clip, but I did see the picture. I'm aware of it. Yeah.

Our listener says, as an elementary school teacher and a mother, my jaw dropped as the scene played out and I thought of all the young kids and teens my own included watching and witnessing Mr Kelsey's uncontrollable rage towards Mr Reid I was equally shocked that Kelsey was back in the game soon after his ugly outburst and further that more was not made of it in the media and Andy Reid explained Kelsey's behaviour away saying he keeps me young he tested that hip out he caught me off balance normally i'd give him a little bit but i didn't have any feet under me what says our listener why is this acceptable behavior in this day and age and why is taylor swift associated with this brute of a man with a display like this on national television what chance do we have of teaching our children

good sportsmanship and respectful ones coach for the sport they play not to mention that fans of taylor may feel some concern for her safety after witnessing kelsey's volatile behavior i know my daughter and her friend who were watching voiced it she says really i think that's really interesting i think i do i um i mean people behave aggressively in sport i mean that's part of some games certainly in that sport but that is that is a very interesting point that uh nobody really did pick up on that. Certainly not in the British press, I don't think.

No, they didn't. I also read Andy Reid's explanation, justification for his star player's behaviour, and I thought that was a bit odd as well. What do we know about the roughty-toughty world of the NFL? Nothing. Well, no, I know there's a lot of head injuries involved. I mean, basically,

you're just running fast at someone else and trying to give them a head injury. It's something that's always put of head injuries involved. I mean, basically, you're just running fast at someone else and trying to give them a head injury. It's something that's always put me off it slightly. I think the current media narrative is Travis Kelsey, good thing, because of the association with Taylor Swift. I think it's really interesting that our listener's daughter and her friend actually voiced it, that they picked up on that while watching it.

And they certainly wouldn't have been the only ones if that's how young women are interpreting it. Well, I think, unfortunately for them, they're very much alert to that sort of thing aren't they do i think uh taylor and kelsey will go on to be married for decades no i think i think you're not alone in that she'll get another couple of albums out of it hopefully if the woman is a genius, I don't say that lightly. I really do think she is. I was booking my accommodation today for my

Stockholm trip to see Taylor. Oh yes, you got an early, didn't you? I did, yeah. I'm still hoping, my daughter's got tickets for Liverpool and you'd think that she'd want to take her mother with her, but so far. You named the ballot for that ticket, have you? I just said quite loaded things like

I gave birth to you. If it hadn't been for me, you wouldn't be there. I mean, another obviously unnecessary and passive aggressive over emotional things. It's not just anyone who listens to Affair, it's celebrity people. When I was born in 1978, says our correspondent at Salisbury Hospital, I weighed 10 pounds, 11 ounces. Whether such a weight was record breaking or not was not recorded. But I was at the time the longest baby ever born at Salisbury Hospital. I had been due on Christmas Day, but arrived 10 days late. My mother always said I was made of mince pies because she tucked in with abandon during those frustrating overdue days I was her second baby and I should say she did go

on to have a third but do you know how long she was how long 23 inches which is nearly two foot oh I mean that's so long baby who said that is absolutely enormous are you still tall? Yeah, I'm interested in that. Yeah, can you let us know? Are her parents tall? We do need to know more. She doesn't want her name mentioned.

All the measurements, please. Fair enough. But, I mean, it's a good day when you get an email from someone who was, perhaps even for a short time, the longest baby ever born at Salisbury Hospital.

Congratulations. They probably, I mean, that record has probably been smashed now by all those tall youths. Tall posh youths. posh tall posh youth tall conservative posh youths it's quite possible cluttering things up yeah um so this is about our library books conversation oh yeah um and the possible previous readers and comments found in them um so our listener who wants to remain anonymous said that she i'm presuming she was a she wanted to share that many years ago i'd split up with a partner and he wrote a very passionate letter following

the end of the relationship and when i say passionate i mean steamy says our listener i didn't want to destroy it but i felt uncomfortable about it so i stashed it between the pages of the book no idea which book and i'm sure you know what's coming next i had a big clear out prior to moving and sent a load of books to the charity shop. When I realised I might have sent the letter, I went through all the books I'd kept, but no luck. Now, says our listener, whenever I'm in a charity shop looking at books,

I often wonder about the person who might have read my letter and what they might have thought about my previous love life. They were probably very jealous. I mean, I'm sure they loved it. On a related note, our listener says, you must watch One Day on Netflix, which is very beautiful and so much better than the film from 2011. I have. And I hard agree.

Okay, I've seen one episode. I've watched seven because I'm rationing myself. I could easily binge it all at once. How many are there? Fourteen. Oh, are there fourteen? Yeah, they've done it all the way through. Okay, and do they age them really well? They've done it all the way through.

And do they age them really well? So far, they're still in their 20s. But I've got, I mean, I've had pre-heartbreak from like minute one of episode one. Because they're doing such a good job. Yeah, okay. Yes. Carol Majley said when she watched it to review it, you know, she's going to have to watch it all again. Really?

Because she said it's that good. She said yesterday she'd have given it, oh no, today I think she said, if she could have given it six stars she would. She would have done, yes I saw that. She really was completely bold. She's not that

easily impressed. She's not easily impressed at all. You said that very passionately. We'll bring Caroline Quentin in in a moment

but I just, yes I mean Netflix is a universal thing, it's a global thing so if you get the chance to see one day,

I do agree. I'm going to try and eke it out for as long as possible um this is an important email and i think it will chime with with a number of people listening i'm in my 50s and i listened to your email from colette which brought to mind others who shared their challenges with loneliness and making friends in later life um i my husband and I care for our adult son, who has a severe learning disability. Now, in the beginning, we did acquire something of a circle of friends

from the school gates linked to our older daughter. When our son came along, they would invite us to things, but due to his needs, one of us was always on guard, following him around, not able to just let the kids play while the adults chatted. Gradually, we found we were invited less and less, and once our daughter left primary school, we were essentially ghosted. Our son did go to a wonderful school for children with special needs,

but we struggled to make any real connections there. The way we have to live our lives to meet our son's needs, work commitments, not having family remotely nearby, and the lack of support available don't get me started on that she says means that we have very few friends and they live afar. It is not easy for us to just join a class. I'm so lucky to have my gorgeous husband and fortunate that we still enjoy each other's company after 30 years but I worry about his loneliness too as I think it's even harder for chaps to make friends

i don't mean for this to be a whinge fest but just wanted to highlight the isolation that being any sort of carer brings um i'm sorry to hear about that and i i do thank you very much for emailing in because that's it's a missed contribution to this conversation and i can well imagine how it happens yeah and um those of us who you know maybe have been in a situation where we could have reached out and didn't well we need to have a word with ourselves and i hope um that i know um that will mean a lot to those people in similar situations so thank you for that and thank you for just reminding us of how sometimes you've got to be adaptable in your friendships and accept that other people have got limitations that they didn't choose.

Absolutely. People of all ages and all circumstances, you care for other people. Yeah. Young people and older people. So thank you very much for that. And if anybody's similar concerns or living through something similar, do let us know. Jane and Fee at times.radio.

Can I read a little bit of fan mail to you? Yeah. Just before we move on. Because I feel like like i you know i had the thumbnail at the top of it you did and i thought i was very gracious very gracious but have i here's one for you how am i going to be put in the house of lords have they asked you to break it to me who would write to me if they were going to put you in the house of lords i don't know who that would be okay you'll just ruin anyway anyway um this is not about the house of lords yet i'm hoping that'll be by thursday so this is actually from rabina who um had the nosely safari park dream about you oh yes that's right you've been back in the dreams it was erotic yes so dear jane and fee thought i'd share my second dream

about jane sorry for you didn't feature doesn't matter she's not here um this time we were in a car with jane driving while i was cooking roast potatoes the oven was conveniently located in the middle section under the radio and just in front of the gear stick i think you'll agree an otherwise underutilized area of a car it's true i don't know why there aren't more ovens in cars. Yeah, there should be. You did a couple of illegal left turns, sounds about right, and drove the wrong way round a roundabout, yep, but you weren't at all flustered. My main concern was my potatoes not crisping

up in time for our arrival. I've no idea where we were going, but it looked a bit like the Peak District. I think this dream was triggered by a combination of listening to your recent chat about driving in Paris while watching the Hairy Biker's new show and Amanda and Alan hamming it up in Italy. Anyway can't wait for our next adventure in my progesterone adult brain. All the best Bina. P.S. still available for our nosely safari park trip whenever you're ready. Well listen if you're going to chuck in some

roasties then I'll give it due consideration. I'm just incredibly flattered to be involved in anybody's subconscious meanderings. I had a dream the other night involving Times Radio that I was sitting in for Hugo Rifkin, but the studio was actually the 11th floor, not the 14th floor, and I was running around trying to find some headphones. Anyway, but I wish I had dreams about you and roast potatoes, is what I'm saying.

Try harder. I just have terror dreams about 14th floor and 11th floor situations. Well, I mean, that is, can I say that? You're becoming, you know what you're becoming? Anxious? No, you're becoming a broadcaster. Because those are the dreams of broadcasters. So basically Danny was talking in my ear and I couldn't find any microphones or headphones that worked for 20 minutes.

And it was dead air for 20 minutes. Radio has well and truly wormed its way into your head. I used to just worry about missing deadlines. Not anymore. Now it's everything. It's your just omnivorous media beast. I was going to say tart and I just drew back. But then you did.

Yeah, I just have. Our big guest today is the, and I really enjoy talking to her actually, Caroline Quentin. She's been in so much stuff on the telly, I'll ramble through some of them Blue Murder, The Lazarus Project we talk a bit about that, that's a very expensive looking Sky show

available now, Men Behaving Badly of course and she's made loads of documentaries about all sorts of stuff but she's now written a book called Drawn to the Garden she's also done some wonderful illustrations for it and she's taking it on tour. She's taking this kind of concept on tour

with no lesser person than Maria McCurlain. So I asked her to tell me a little bit about that. I'm doing a short tour first of bookshops. So hello, bookshop people. I'm coming to you alone. Because they are so important. Yeah, no, they really... I'm doing a lot of independent bookshops first

over the next couple of months. And then further down the line, Maria is going to interview me. I've known her for um 50 years so that should be hilarious yes she's a very funny woman she's a darling and actually her book was good it's great yeah I loved her book her books from bumps in the road actually yeah well done for let's promote it again it's good it's really good no it is very good well we've mentioned that now we can move on from Maria and her charms uh but I'm glad that you're doing it with her. That's brilliant.

So your garden now is how many acres? Two acres. Is that right? Well, I've got a couple of acres of veg and fruit plot. I mean, the garden is bigger than that because I've got a big pond and things like that. But the bit I sort of concentrate on, ostensibly it started on Instagram during COVID.

And I'd come in from a day in the garden and say to my husband, oh, I've been, you know, I've been pleaching, I've been planting. And he said, I'm just not interested. Yeah, go away. Go away. Go and find someone who cares. And so I did and I went out onto the internet and I found an Instagram following who genuinely love talking about gardening. So I found my people.

Yeah. And then I was encouraged to to because i draw and paint as well to to write the book really it's sort of a gardening book but it's sort of a bit more than that i mean we'll get on to the rest of it but um it's in devon your your plot yeah um is there something specific i should know about devon soil or the sea air what what's significant well i'm mid devon so i'm not near the sea, but I'm on heavy clay. A lot of people around me are... When you see that red, very iron-coloured soil, it's thick and heavy.

It's very nutritious. I mean, it's brilliant for growing things, but you have to add a lot of things to make it friable. So all of us Devon gardeners know that we have to add manure, manure, manure. Do you? OK. Well, there's plenty of that around in Devon, presumably. It certainly is, yeah. OK, and you're very honest in the book

because you make clear that actually your husband does help a little bit, doesn't he, Sam? Yeah, he hates it, but he does help. And then you do have a gardener too. Well, Anthony's not... He's always said he's not a gardener. He's a countryman. He lays hedges.

He uses the tractor. He'll dig a trench. And he always said, I'm not a gardener. I don't want to be a gardener. I'm not a gardener i don't want to be a gardener i'm not a gardener and he's i hope you won't mind me saying anthony's in his late 70s and he's a country person but he helps me do things if i'm away yeah so if i need work done he will help me because people will be asking how does this star of stage and screen manage the garden and do everything else so that the answer is countryman yeah i mean you know he gives me a day a week i mean the rest of the time i

either do it myself or it doesn't get done and that's also true of my book it's about failure as well as success and it's about forgiving ourselves those weeks when we don't water or you know plant on and things we you know we're all just amateurs really this is um quite significant but i think quite hopeful but also a bit sad time of the year isn't it yeah because things are sort of i mean my sole gardening anecdote is that i went to kew gardens on sunday partly in preparation for this encounter and there were crocuses poking up and some snowdrops around. Camellias are kind of on the go, aren't they? But it's still a little bit quiet. It is. I mean, I've noticed in London, actually,

because, of course, the microclimate here is quite a lot. Yeah, and loads of daffodils, loads of croci, crocuses, everywhere. And in Devon, we're still, we're just seeing the tail end of our snowdrops. So, yeah, it's, but for me, it's a joyful time, but I'm still a little bit desperate for the dawn chorus, for April to come and for the blossom, yeah. Yeah, blossom is definitely weirdly out in some parts. So I live in West London.

There are some trees that have got blossom, but then you go down another street, there's none at all. It's those that have got the heating on and those that haven't probably. It must be that, yeah. You also have a pond in your garden don't you and I think that's because ponds deliver but what does a pond give you? Well I mean any body of water in a garden will bring everything with it. I mean you put water in and it brings wildlife so even a small body of water will bring toads and newts and frogs. It'll bring the birds.

It'll bring insects hovering above, which will feed the birds. Slow worms, things like that. Also, you know, hedgehogs, all those kind of things come into the garden because of water. So if you have, I mean, even honestly, people just on my account just say, put a bowl of water in and suddenly I've got wildlife in the garden. So if you can put anything in your garden, an old bucket, dustbin, dig something in. I mean, I'm lucky I've got a large sort of, yeah,

I suppose it's a pond. Well, you swim in it, don't you? Yeah, so I suppose it's bigger than a pond. I don't know. It's almost a lake, but not quite a lake. Not quite, it feels of a ground to call it a lake. It does, it's a big pond and I do swim in it yeah okay you also claim to occasionally garden with no clothes on no i do do i absolutely do yeah i mean i live in the country i'm not why do you do that carol well because if you get up in the morning and it's warm it doesn't happen very often obviously but um and and you put your

pinny on and and then no one's going to see you it's just so lovely to get the air on your body. I love it. And I don't, because I'm not surrounded by people, I mean, I'm not suggesting people in terraced houses, you know, well, actually, no, do. Do start taking your clothes off. I don't, I think probably not. Well, I think the pinny might offer a degree of protection.

Yeah. Not least for the neighbours. No, exactly. Yeah, exactly. A sort of gardening apron's a good thing, particularly if you're pruning, obviously. Yeah, indeed. Now, your book starts with reference to your mum.

Now, I didn't know this, and she was somebody who did have, you know, struggles with her mental health over the years, and she was taken to psychiatric hospitals from time to time. A lot, yeah, quite a lot, actually. I mean, I think nowadays we call it bipolar. When I was a child growing up, it was called manic depression, which just alludes to the two extremes of the experience for people with it.

And, yeah, my mum spent a lot of time in the big psychiatric hospital, not that far from where I grew up, and had ECT, electric shock treatment, and was on a lot of those drugs for her lithium and those kind of drugs for her health, her mental health. And so, yes, I mean, I grew up very much in that environment with someone who was very ill i mean really very ill and um i think i mean i don't know i think when when you're

little you don't know anything else you only know what you know and my mum was you know absent quite a lot and and my father was absent quite a lot because he was um uh flying airplanes he was uh british air well bua as it was in those days so so it was a big part of my childhood was um being alone quite a lot actually and and i think that's formed who i am in lots of ways but but I think it's also made that link for me with nature I think I felt I very early on understood that there was um a peace there peace and comfort and continuity actually it was very important for me and you say in the book that you would visit your mum and that there would be a big garden because yeah those i very early on in my journalism career i that's very rather grand well it's not grand as your pond um i went to visit one of those huge psychiatric

hospitals just before it closed it was on the cusp of the care in the community initiative yeah and i imagine the place I visited was rather like the institution that your mum spent time in. Because it was enormous. Huge. I mean, huge. They were villages. They were actually villages. And I, you know, subsequently have looked into the hospital where my mum was, and it was an entire village.

It had its own laundry, its own theatre, its own ballroom. It had occupational therapy. It had huge dining rooms. It employed thousands of its own ballroom. It had occupational therapy. It had huge dining rooms. It employed thousands of people. I mean, these were huge. You know, I mean, I'm not an authority about mental health, but there was, I think there's something to be said for people being looked after in a safe space.

I mean, you know, there were locked wards, of course there were, and people who were, you know, my occasion was was um sectioned under the mental health act and things and uh but there was something to be said for that because you know the grounds were extraordinary i mean so beautiful a huge swathes of kind of daisies and trees had its own graveyard had a beautiful church i don't know there's a kind of i think they are a loss to us i don't know i'm sure people will shoot me down in flames but there's a kind of... I think they are a loss to us. I don't know. I'm sure people will shoot me down in flames. But there's something to be said, I think, maybe... I think the conversation around them might just be changing

for precisely the reasons that you've outlined. It'll be very interesting to see what happens. And I'm not an authority on this either, I need to say. But there'll be people listening who do know more. So please do email janeandfee at times.radio if you do. And I think it's also worth saying, because it's in the book, that your mum did make progress. My mother lived well beyond her quite extreme mental ill health

and had a very fulfilled, joyful, wonderful life beyond it, which is, you know, I mean, more than can be said for a lot of people. And, you know, I mean, more than can be said for a lot of people. And, you know, I'm so grateful for that. And I know she was, too. A massively positive, funny, clever, bright woman. Sort of had that time to be that woman. Yeah. Did she live long enough to see your showbiz career?

Yes. Oh, brilliant. She absolutely did. Yeah, she only died 10 15 years 15 years ago or something but so yeah no she she yeah she she saw the me working hard to have the career have the career and you know and and everything that's come after you know a bit like you you've still got a career being a brand the grandest word isn't it if we were men we probably wouldn't i don't know we wouldn't bat an eyelid probably would we just say a bit pompous about talking

about it. Our work. Yes, but hashtag not all men, she said very, very quickly. Voice over describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. Voice over on settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books, contacts, calendar, double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. I'm talking to Caroline Quentin and I have taken particular note of a recipe

involving courgettes in her book and she told me a bit more about it Well, I get a glut of courgettes so of a recipe involving courgettes in her book. And she told me a bit more about it. Well, I get a glut of courgettes, so I'm queen of courgettes. What is it about the courgette? Because, I mean, they grow. Abundance doesn't do it justice, does it? It doesn't. Well, except some years when, you know, when I say,

oh, I've got terrible courgettes and people go, yeah, me too. So I don't know. It's all, it's in the lap of the gods, all of it. But, yeah, I've got lots of recipes for cour people go, yeah, me too. So I don't know. It's in the lap of the gods all of it. But yeah, I've got lots of recipes for courgettes. We have to have gardeners. They don't actually taste of anything, Caroline. That's the problem. Controversial, but I've just lumped it in.

They're not flavourful is what I'd say. No, you do have to add something to a courgette to make it worthwhile. It's true. So obviously there seems to be quite a contrast between the Caroline at home, pottering, sometimes naked, sometimes not, in her garden, and then the person who, I mean, you lap up all sorts of,

the Lazarus Project, for example, is, I tried to understand what it was about this morning, and I did get a bit, I mean, it's very, just set the scene. What is it? It's, the Lazarus Project is... It's a very expensive show. It's a massive Sky series,

and it's about a character, Papa Sied, who plays a character who inadvertently falls into working with an organisation who can alter time. And on the 1st of July every year, they can make a choice about whether or not to turn the clock back and they can stop world events and Joe Barton who wrote our series did predict I absolutely predicted Covid the Ukrainian war that you know I mean it it it covers all of that and we were shooting it long before any of that happened so it's about making choices about whether or not what is the moral dilemma when is it a good time to turn back time i suppose that's what it's about um and uh

and joe barton explores that thoroughly and humorously and you know and it's quite it's a sexy funny science fiction thing and you play an authority figure don't you who gets to be i'm very jealous of this because i've always wanted to be called mom and you're called mom and it was so weird i just funny enough i just ran in minutes ago i ran to angeli who mahindra who who um plays archie in the show and um and i loved it i love you know they're all these gorgeous young actors they're really marvelous funny clever erudite people. And I'm a bumbling gardening idiot. Don't say it.

But it's true. And they're all calling me, yes, ma'am, no, ma'am. It was great. It was a great thing to walk in. You know, I've had I've had a couple of years of people really showing me the respect I don't deserve. That's exactly what I want. Bring it on. And obviously, you know, men behaving badly is where a lot of people will remember you with huge fondness. And the classic question about that show now is, could you make it now?

And I guess you couldn't, but you shouldn't because it was of its time. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, it was getting pretty past its sort of sell-by date by the last series, really. So we'd be pushing on 20, 30 years later. What was significant about the last series?

I don't know. I just think, you know, you plough that furrow and there comes a point where you just go, hmm, I think we've done this now. And the world moved on mercifully. And I say that, actually. I've got two young people. I don't know if the world has moved on enough.

Probably. You know, I think, I don't know. We didn't have social media in those days. And I'm not sure. There are lots of reasons why we couldn't make it now. But, you know, yeah. So some of the stuff that felt faintly charming and true to life back then would be a bit tawdry now?

I think it would stick in one's craw, actually. I really do. And I think, I mean, listen, it's still funny. I'm not taking that away from it. People still come up to me, young people still come up to me in the street and say they find it funny. Old people come up to me in the street

and say they find it funny and they know. So listen, it's fine. But I just, it was so much of its era. Right. And were you at any time when you were doing it uncomfortable with it? I mean, you hinted that perhaps towards the end you definitely were. No you were doing it uncomfortable with it i mean you hinted that perhaps towards the end you definitely were no i think i was always i mean i was fighting i was fighting in the rehearsal room i always i remember saying in the when we did the you know

the first what do you call it pilot saying very loudly i am not here to serve up feed lines to men i'm just not here to do that. And, you know, she was pretty bold, given that no one knew who I was or cared. But I felt very strongly then, actually, there was an opportunity in that scenario to give the women a voice. I mean, it was never going to be as loud a voice,

but at least it could be as funny. And actually, what's really interesting in comedies, I think, is if you're funny, you can say almost anything. But if you're just someone feeding lines to somebody else, you don't exist. And that is still true today, I think. Is there enough comedy on television and elsewhere driven by women and the female experience, do you think?

No, I mean, I think, you know, we can look to Sharon Horgan and say thank you, Sharon, for doing, you know, 50% of the work. But there are other, you know, great shows out there, you know. Phoebe Waller-Bridge. Phoebe Waller-Bridge, yeah. And, you know, and Alma's Not Normal. Those kind of shows are extraordinarily good. I saw a great play last night have you seen

till the stars come down i haven't what's it about it's about it's about three sisters and it is written by beth steel it's so i cannot recommend it highly enough the writing is sparkling and it's about women's experience written by a woman in a way that i haven't seen in years on stage it's so Just a brief outline of the plot? It's set on the day of a wedding of one of the sisters. The mother has died. It's so funny and good. I really recommend it.

That's way off course. I shouldn't be talking about that. Is it short? Yeah, it's two and a half hours with a 20... It's a half an hour interval and two hours. It's short. It feels short. It feels short. OK, that's fine. It's really

it's blissful entertainment okay all right well no we'll take it and the name of the play again uh the stars come down i think it is called yeah national theater people are loving your interview and they are i'm sure they'll take a recommendation from you so don't worry about that good um also stuff in the book as well not just about gardening but about wildlife and i i feel i'm so out of my depth here but i mean i cannot tell if i'm honest a blue tit from a sparrow from a blackbird i might be able to spot a blackbird in fairness i think but but you you really do you can tell the difference and you take huge comfort from their presence don't you yeah i started birding very early on actually i was was partly due to my mum's ill health, I think.

I was, I say, sent to boarding school just moments after my 10th birthday. And I met someone called Sarah Deer-Jones, who was a really lovely woman, child at the time. But she was a birder and she was a member of the RSPB. Can I just say, you must have been outliers at your boarding school, you and your friend Sarah. We were.

We really were. And in fact, we were mostly illegal because we were out of bounds apart from being outliers. We used to sneak off together and it was gorgeous there. We watched everything. We watched all the birds. It was great. That's actually really lovely. It sounds to me like you're speaking up in support of boarding school, or at least in your case.

Would that be fair? Yes, I mean, I don't know. Again, I don't, I was very, very lonely and I was quite sad and quite scared a lot of the time. But I had, again, I had nature to go to. I turned to nature and it was set, the school was set in very beautiful grounds again. So, you know, once again, you know, a bit of greenery.

Even when you're 10 and really homesick and lonely and quite scared of lots of stuff, if you're watching a family of blue tits feeding on, you know, worms as their mum and dad bring them in, you know, it's like everything's OK, even if it's just for that half an hour or whatever. There is so much solace, and I know this from people talking or whatever, there is so much solace. And I know this from people talking to me.

There is so much solace from nature, whether it be birds or water or planting things, trees. You know, I think we need it. Oh, I think we really do. And if people want to follow you on Instagram, I should say we've had an email from Cher, who's one of our regular listeners over in the States, and she says, I follow Caroline on Insta.

It is so soothing and she really enjoys it. Thank you very much. But she does live in a land where Donald Trump could be the head of state in a year or so. I have a lot of people in America follow me, actually. So where do they find you on Instagram? It's called CQ Gardens. I know you were at Q Gardens recently,

but it's C with a Q as a Q. Yeah, CQ Gardens. Yeah, CQ Gardens. That know you were at CQ Gardens recently, but it's C with a Q. I thought it was very clever, that. Yeah, CQ Gardens. CQ Gardens. That was Caroline Quentin, and her book Drawn to the Garden is out this week. And just thinking about what she said about her mum and her mum stays in one of those absolutely huge psychiatric hospitals, I think Caroline felt that the hospital had actually been

very much the right place for her mum. And actually, Jane, a safe place for her mum and a place that really helped her. There'll be plenty of people listening right now who've got rather different memories of those institutions, which is kind of why they were all closed down. And we started this idea of care in the community in the 1990s. I'm talking about Britain here, obviously. So I really would welcome anybody else's memories of those sorts of institutions.

Jane and Fee at times.radio. Caroline is lovely. I kind of expected her to be, and she turned out to be. So that's very nice. I'd quite like to go on tour with her and Maria. I think that would be an awful lot of fun. I don't think... I mean, you might end up in jail, in a foreign jail after a tour,

but I think it'd be a lot of fun, yeah. I think there would be some laughs. You're quite right. And actually, I just wanted to say at the end, while we were doing this podcast, we got the news that Steve Wright has died. And Steve Wright, the Radio 2 presenter, and actually, he was only 69,

and I met him a couple of times. And can I just say, I'm just really sorry. And I know Fi would also be really sorry, because we loved, we were very occasionally on his program and it was a big big thrill if you're an absolute anorak like me he was a true genius of radio absolute titan of radio yeah he really was and he just made so many people's days you know he was on in the afternoon on radio one and radio two um certainly his style was completely unique to Britain when he first started and I just think he

will have touched the lives of loads of people. So rest in peace, Steve. I'm really sorry to hear about that. Absolutely. Jane, thank you and we'll be back tomorrow. We're bringing the shutters down on another episode of the internationally acclaimed podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe.

But don't forget that you can get another two hours of us every Monday to Thursday afternoon here on Times Radio. We start at 3pm and you can listen for free on your smart speaker. Just shout Play Times Radio at it. You can also get us on DAB Radio in the car or on the Times Radio app whilst you're out and about being extremely busy. And you can follow all our tosh behind the mic and elsewhere on our Instagram account. Just go onto Insta and search for Jane and Fee and give us a follow. So in other words, we're everywhere, aren't we, Jane?

Pretty much everywhere. Thank you for joining us. And we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon. I'm to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone.